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Hosted by SRPMIC Assistant Community Manager, Lena Jackson-Eckert, this podcast takes a closer look at the programs, services, and people that help shape our Community. From everyday resources to unique stories and conversations, we’re here to share what matters. So let’s go ahead and zoom in.
Content warning. You may notice a different tone in these next few episodes of Lena's Lens. It's a little bit of a change of what you're used to. It includes discussions on grief, trauma, and other emotionally heavy topics, as well as profanity. So please listen with care.
Lena:The Voice You're Hearing belongs to Edgar Carlyle, one of the seven individuals who participated in a twelve week therapeutic writing program at the Salt River Department of Corrections. Edgar chose to open our miniseries with the traditional gourd song as we begin our journey into the stories and reflections shared through this program. Welcome back to Lena's Lens. I'm Lena Jackson Eckert, Assistant Community Manager for the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community, and this is the first episode of a special miniseries we are doing featuring the Therapeutic Writing Program, which was started by our very own Councilwoman Suk Fuwalder with the help of the Reentry Services Supervisor, Nicolette Parrish. As we learned in the previous episode, this program gives individuals the opportunity to reflect on their experiences, express themselves through writing, and share their voices with honesty and courage.
Lena:Writing can be a powerful tool for healing. It lets people process emotions, sit with memories, build resilience, and imagine new possibilities for their future. The writings you'll hear today were shared voluntarily and reflect each person's own experiences and perspectives. Some even chose to share more than one piece. For the sake of respect and focus, I want to note that we will not be discussing details of their crimes or how long their sentences are.
Lena:That is not the purpose of this series. This is a space for healing, humanity, and community connection. We also want to remind listeners that you may hear strong language and difficult themes in these readings. These are the individuals' real voices shared exactly as written. Please listen with care.
Lena:I invite you also to listen with an open mind, an open heart, and with a belief that every person has a story worth telling. This episode and the next feature their readings. The episodes that follow will dive deeper into their thoughts and feelings, their grief, their hopes, their childhood experiences, their families, and the cycles they hope to break. Here are the seven individuals you'll hear throughout this mini series: Andrew Carlisle, Nathan Antone, Eric Wood, Adam Jackson, Wayne Butler, Brian Butler, and Edgar Carlisle. Now let's set the scene.
Lena:On the day we recorded, our team made the short walk from our offices to the Department of Corrections, pushing audio equipment through the dry summer heat. By the time we reached the entrance, the sun was already strong. Once inside, we signed in, went through the metal detectors, were wandered by security staff, and we also checked in with each other to make sure we were aligned. Then we made our way deeper into the facility, entering the familiar arts and crafts room. This is a space we had visited twice before, once to scout the room and once to meet the men.
Lena:When we arrived, we got straight to set up. Tables and chairs arranged, microphones unpacked and connected, recorders powered on. Nicolette, Councilwoman Fulwilder three members of our production team, and a correctional officer settled in as we prepared for the men to join us. When they arrived, we shared a quick meal together. Small conversations floated across the room as nerves either settled or shifted, depending on the person.
Lena:In total, there were 15 of us gathered in one space, full bellies and a lot of emotion. Despite the setting, despite the circumstances, what filled that room was connection, care, humanity, courage. These are their stories. These are their voices. Let's begin with our first set of readings.
Andrew:My name is Andrew Carlisle, and I'm 23 years old. I'm from out here, Salt River.
Lena:All right, Andrew, why don't you go ahead and read for us what you wrote?
Andrew:All right. The title was called You Can Be Different. Growing up, most of the men around me either gangbanged, got high, sold drugs, drank, beat on women and children, or did all of the above, which left my young mind tainted, confusing me on how a man is supposed to be as well as what a man is supposed to do. Because when you're a kid, watching the things around you happen the way they do only allows you to believe and think that what you see on a daily basis is okay and normal. I know because my mind used to think just like that from when he seen the things I've seen.
Andrew:But as I got older, I learned that everything I seen around me was far from normal, especially how the men acted. Because what I learned about a real man is that he is someone who provides for his family, protects his family at all costs, and does whatever needs to be done so that his family is happy and safe, even if that means sacrificing his own needs. And now that I said that, I really would like the younger man to soak it in as well as take in what I'm about to say next. Because for me, when I really thought about the things that I'm about to tell you right now, didn't only open up my eyes but made sense as well. But anyways, here it goes.
Andrew:As young men, we tend to create an idea in our heads from witnessing the pain and troubles our families go through, telling ourselves that when we get older, we're gonna be the ones to take our families away from the struggles by any means necessary. But it can't be by any means necessary because at some point we have to start doing certain things different because if we don't, then we'll eventually become the men we've seen growing up. And if we become these men we've seen growing up, then our outcome will most likely be the same as theirs, which is either being dead or locked up. And if one of those two things happen, then we've already failed our families as men because how are we going to protect them or provide for them if we're locked away or dead? You're not obligated to follow the footsteps of those who've led themselves to their own fall because you can be so much more if you really put your mind to it.
Andrew:That's why I chose to talk about what I'm talking about because I really want those who need to hear this to know that it is okay to be different. So go to school and graduate because your education is a major key to unlocking a lot of doors that will help you succeed later on in your future when open. Then after you graduate, if you can, attend college to pursue a career, but not just any career. Do something that you love because why have a job and be miserable when you can have a job doing something you love? And not only would you be making money, but you would also be happy while doing it.
Andrew:I really want to say so much more, but don't really have the time. So before I end this, I want you to remember to always love yourself and put yourself first, and also surround yourself with people who really want you to succeed because if you don't, then people with selfish intentions will keep you from accomplishing all your life goals. So keep the ones around who push and motivate you to cross the finish line, even if it means leaving them behind because that's what real friends do and want from you. And with that, I'm a leave it at that. Thank you for your time.
Lena:Wow, that was really powerful. Thank you for sharing that story with us. So why don't you tell us a little bit, what was it like to read that out loud?
Andrew:Nervous, but at the same time, it feels good to say a lot of things that I feel don't go with being said a lot of
Andrew:the times, especially growing up in the environment I grew up in.
Lena:Yeah, and I guess we probably don't talk enough about what being a man means, and I think you really hit that in your story. If you had one message for your writing and what you would hope others would take away, what would that be?
Andrew:Just to listen to the things that I've said, but also at the same time, for those who know me who don't, just look at the things I've already done but use that as a blueprint to what not to do. Because everything I've done so far only led me to one place. And I don't want to see no youth end up or anybody in general to go through any of this stuff because it's not a place for a human.
Lena:Did anything surprise you about writing that for yourself?
Andrew:Yeah, it did. Just knowing it, yes. And I was just surprised myself, just understanding and knowing the things that I know. Yeah.
Lena:Well, thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
Andrew:No, thank you.
Nathan:My name's Nathan Anton. I'm from Salt River. I'm 40 years old, and I'm currently staying at Salt River DLC. Yeah.
Lena:Alright. Why don't you go ahead and get started with what you what you wrote and what you're gonna read for us today?
Nathan:The title of my poem is a motherfucking poem from my stoop from my stupid ass heart. And it goes, well, I had a visit with my kid, my oldest boy, last week. It was it was cool. I asked what's up with him getting in, drinking, and getting into trouble. He told me his side of the story.
Nathan:It's crazy because I was drinking when I was his age. The same shit. I'm the same stuff. I was yeah. It's kinda same kinda the same shit, but it can be fixed now.
Nathan:And he don't have to, keep drinking and getting high all his life and grow through this through the bad shit that I, that comes with that life. Like I said, I I want him to have a better life than me. I want both all my kids to have better lives than I did. For that to happen, I need to show them and better me not high or drunk, going and going to jail all the time. I don't know, but this time around is different.
Nathan:I just started going to all these classes in here. The bullshit, these teachers were talking about started to make sense. I've seen that me using was not good for my good for me and my kids, shit I needed to oh, I used to say that I was gonna drink and get high until the day I die. That was just part of life, I thought. I had a little time sober before, but that was just to get off a base.
Nathan:You know, it was only five months. Now I really want this shit. It's not going to be easy, and I have my doubts. My kids gave me the motivation to do this sober shit and stay with it. I found my way, my whys for my kids.
Nathan:Always for me and my kids to have a better life. And my passion is to do something in the medical field. My purpose is to help people with their health in the way I can, in any way I can, then
Lena:Well, thank you for sharing your story. I think it was pretty powerful when you talk about the changes that you want to make for your kids. So what was it like for you to read that out loud?
Nathan:It was kinda, I don't know.
Lena:Was it hard for you to read it out loud?
Nathan:Yeah, kind of, yeah. Because, I mean, like it is, right now, hearing it out loud, it kinda don't make sense, but I don't know.
Lena:It makes sense.
Nathan:Yeah, I don't know.
Lena:I think
Nathan:This is something I never done before.
Lena:Yeah.
Nathan:Yeah, it's all new.
Lena:So this is your first time writing something like that and then sharing it? Yeah. Does that make you feel good though? Does it give you like a sense of healing Awkwardness. Anything like
Lena:Awkwardness. Yeah.
Lena:Well, I mean, that could be the start of something.
Nathan:Yeah. It's a little form of change, you mean? Yeah.
Lena:And any little bit is good.
Nathan:Yeah.
Lena:So if you had one message that you wanted somebody to hear, what would that be about what you just read?
Nathan:I don't know.
Lena:Well, you had a message for your kids.
Nathan:Yeah. It's
Lena:You had a message for maybe even yourself.
Nathan:Yeah. It's don't drink and just try not to drink. Yeah. I because nothing comes from it. Nothing good comes from it.
Nathan:It may seem fun in the beginning, but at the end, it's not because you miss out on a lot.
Lena:Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing.
Eric:All right.
Lena:Appreciate it.
Eric:I'm Eric Wood. I'm 29 years old, I'm from Star River.
Lena:Thank you. Go ahead and get started with what you wrote.
Eric:If you look up the definition of a spoiled person, you might read something along the lines of someone who always got what they want. Now, if you told my family that, they'll probably reply with, Oh yeah, that's just Eric. I don't think I am, and I used to strongly believe that too. I realize that statement is something a spoiled person would say. It's not my fault though, so now I'm turning this around into an acceptance letter.
Eric:This letter is going to be my 10 thanks to the main person out of many, to be honest, responsible for making me, me. Number one, thank you for hauling all this around for months. I'm sure I'm the start to all your back problems. Number two, thank you for giving in to all the cravings that made us want. Three, thank you for making sure I was well known and loved by all the family before I was even born.
Eric:Four, thank you for making all those late night snacks and then staying up with me to watch our favorite movies. Five, thank you for all your attention and sorry for crying at the bathroom door every time you needed to go. And seven or six, thank you for giving me my sisters when I wanted to be a big brother. I loved them all so much. Seven, thank you for being my personal hairstylist every time I wanted to go through a teenage or adult phase.
Eric:Eight, thank you for being my biggest fan in everything I did. Nine, thank you for always being there when I wanted to be out on my own. I can only imagine the torture I put you through when I slowly stopped coming around. And before I give my last thanks, I do live with a regret. Our last interaction was when you asked me for a little favor, but all I did the whole time was give you the cold shoulder.
Eric:I was so spoiled that I couldn't even do a simple thing for you when all you did was dedicate your life to my wants. Little did I know I would be seeing you for the last time soon after. Seeing you in that hospital, unable to respond, hurt me so much. But you know me well enough that I'm still gonna ask for something. I asked you to promise me to just always be there when I need you.
Eric:And from that point on, I knew I was spoiled. But I'm not embarrassed anymore. It's because you've shown more than enough that you'll give me what I want. You always put your babies first and always found a way to give us what we needed, even if that meant putting yourself in debt. You truly shaped us, introducing us to our favorite food, movies, and music.
Eric:Everything from you was just unconditional. So now for what I'm thankful for the most is my number 10. Thank you so much for being my mom. I love and miss you every day. Love your spoiled brat, Eric.
Lena:Wow, that was really good. And I'm surprised that you didn't cry because I would have cried. Yeah. So how did it feel for you to read that?
Eric:It was really hard at first. I read it for one of my friends in here and my housing, and I was choked up. Like what you said, it was really hard to really say. Even now, I still, it's hard. It's never easy.
Lena:Right.
Eric:But it helps every time I said it. And yeah, last time I teared up and choked and it's just a hard thing to talk about, but it gets easier and it helps me so much.
Lena:So the writing has been healing for you?
Eric:Yeah. And really, is the first time I really like, how would you say I'm confronting it? And I never really dealt with grief. I always push it aside. And yeah, this is my first time in four years since my mother passed away, and I'm barely getting over it right now.
Lena:Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to face Did your anything surprise you about writing this piece, about yourself or about your words?
Eric:Well, just thinking about it and being in here in general, too, I just it was a lot of time to think about myself and what led up to me being here. I always joke around saying, I never noticed how much of a mother's or mama's boy I was. And like what I said in my story here that I'm the only, I'm her only boy, and she has the rest of daughters, and I'm the oldest.
Lena:Oh, so maybe there's some truth to that being spoiled then, So if you had one message, what would you hope others take away from it?
Eric:That when I wrote it, I felt like I was alone. But I feel like everybody feels like that.
Lena:And
Eric:it doesn't matter when you confront it. I just want everyone to know you're never alone, and it's okay to feel how you feel, and you shouldn't let nobody tell you how to deal with your own grief, because that's your own journey.
Lena:Yeah.
Eric:But if you want help, there's always people there. And I'll say it to everybody right now, you know, even if you don't know me or anything, just as long as you're hurting, I'll be there for you. I don't even know who you are. Just as long as you're hurting, I'll be there. That's all that matters to me.
Lena:Thank you, Eric.
Eric:Speaker And thank you.
Lena:Those were the voices of Andrew Carlisle, Nathan Antone, and Eric Wood. These writings marked the start of our day inside DOC, and they set the emotional foundation for the deeper conversation that will follow in this series. Thank you for listening to Part one of the individual's readings from DOC. In the next episode, you'll hear the remaining readings from Adam Jackson, Wayne Butler, and Brian Butler. Their readings carry deeper themes: addiction, loss, healing, accountability, and the hard work of rebuilding identity.
Lena:And after the readings conclude, this miniseries continues. The three episodes that follow will take you inside each roundtable discussion where the guys talk openly about what these writings brought up for them, their hopes, their pain, and the cycles they're determined to break. Thank you for joining us for this first step. If you have questions or feedback about this series, you can reach us at Lena's LensSRPMIC NSN dot gov. Take care, and we'll see you in Episode
Lena:two.