Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Hosted by Steve Phipps of Wayfind Marketing, The Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast simplifies marketing for B2B CEOs ready to grow with confidence. Each episode offers real-world strategies, step-by-step coaching, and inspiring CEO interviews—all designed to help you align your marketing with your business goals, stop wasting time and money, and scale without the stress. If you’re a growth-minded leader tired of vague advice and underperforming tactics, this is your next step.
AnnieLaurie: Okay, Steve, quick question.
Last time you searched for information
online, did you ask Google or chat GPT?
Steve: Actually any Laurie?
I've started going straight to chat,
GPT and perplexity, because I prefer
summarized answers compared to a lot of
links, It's a lot more conversational.
AnnieLaurie: Exactly.
And that's the shift
that's happening right now.
More people are searching for
answers rather than just links.
But here's a big question for our
CEOs listening and their teams.
Is your marketing ready for this shift?
Steve: Welcome back to the
Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast.
I'm Steve Phipps.
AnnieLaurie: I'm Annie Laurie Walters.
We help growth-minded CEOs and their
teams simplify marketing scale their
businesses and lead with clarity.
Steve: Today we're diving into something
called answer engine optimization or a EO.
Now this is a new layer on top of
traditional search engine optimization
or SEO, and it's something that a lot
of CEOs aren't aware of or thinking
about yet, but they should be.
AnnieLaurie: Okay,
Steve, let's start here.
What exactly is answer engine
optimization and why should
business leaders and CEOs care?
Steve: Well, CEOs have spent years,
working with their teams and agencies
to optimize their websites to rank
in Google search, and that's been
generating links and back links,
keywords, you know, the drill.
But now there's a shift that we're
seeing, from traditional search
engines like Google and Bing, and
a list of different search pages,
results to AI driven answer engines.
So think about tools like chat, GPT
or Microsoft's copilot or perplexity.
AnnieLaurie: Here's the key difference.
SEO traditional SEO focuses on algorithms
that rank websites and provide links,
but answer engine optimization or
a EO as we will refer to it often
in this podcast is about optimizing
your content to be directly quoted.
Or summarized in an AI generated answer.
So instead of a link, your business
becomes part of a narrative answer.
Steve: Exactly.
And if you're not optimizing for AI driven
searches, you risk getting left behind.
Seeing a drop in your organic traffic,
and we all know AI isn't going anywhere,
and CEOs need to recognize the new way
that buyers are seeking information.
AnnieLaurie: Now Steve, I've been noticing
clients getting confused about this.
Traditional SEO is still essential.
A EO isn't replacing it, it's actually
enhancing it, it's adding something
to what we are already doing.
Steve: Absolutely, and there's been
a lot of confusion around that.
It's about aligning your content
to answer the questions that your
customers and buyers are asking.
And this is in line with what
we've been saying for a long time,
especially as you think about what's
called the big five Content Strategy.
And we can put a link to that article
in the show notes so you can get more
information about those five topics
that you wanna write about that are
relevant for your buyers and when your
content is answering the right questions.
Thoroughly.
It's attractive both to
humans and to the AI bots.
AnnieLaurie: Let's dive deeper into
something critical in this a EO
space, and that's schema markup.
Okay?
Don't let your eyes glaze over when I say
the word schema markup, 'cause yes, it's
highly technical, but it's important to
have a functional understanding of why
it's important when we talk about a EO.
We've talked about it on our blog.
You can check the show notes, for a link.
That dives deep into what we're talking
about when we talk about schema.
But Google actually has very famously
said, schema isn't a direct ranking signal
or factor in the traditional SEO sense.
So when, google has its algorithm
and it's looking for certain signals
and content and on websites, both the
written part and the technical part
behind the scenes, you can't see.
And it uses those signals.
These, algorithms use those signals
to decide which content it's going to
put first on a search results page.
Now, there was a lot of debate,
several years running, actually not
just last year, but several years
before that regarding if schema.
Had anything to do with a search engine
result page placement on page one, and
Google has come out to say it does not,
but they're talking about
the search engine result
page, the returning of links.
They're not talking about the summarized
responses that this new AI generative
search is starting to provide for us.
Steve: Schema helps AI clearly
understand your content.
It's like a translator for AI engines,
and so it, example of a
schema would be an FAQ schema.
It's, it's specified to
specific types of content.
AnnieLaurie: Yes, and you can check
the article on our website for even a
picture of what it looks like in the
code if you need that extra clarity.
But yes, it's literally code that a
human reading your blog would never
see, but that a search algorithm
or an AI bot looking for citations
and answers to people's questions.
It basically tells the bot,
this is an FAQ, here is the FAQ.
So.
For CEOs and marketing teams who are
evaluating their online presence,
if you're seeing any kind of dip in
traffic due to these new AI generated
results that are popping up on all the
search engines and in the AI tools,
take a look at your website's code and
see what kind of schema you're using.
People are using Schema and have used
Schema for other reasons, and it might
not be as detailed as it could be.
So while your person may say, oh yeah,
we use Schema on our website, ask them
to look specifically for FAQ Schema,
author schema, and we will drop a
link in our show notes to a resource.
By an organization, schema.org
that you can put a link in their
tool and it will tell you exactly
what schema is on the page.
So that's one of the quickest
ways to tell if you have.
All the different schema that you
could be putting on your page.
On the page.
And it will quickly identify for
you the areas where you could go
back in and just add some code.
To me, this is some of the easiest
low hanging fruit that you can grab
onto if you're trying to have your
content rank in sources like chat, GPT,
Steve: and, and I think it's important to
note an that this is not a silver bullet
. There are multiple facets to being
cited and being listed and referenced
to in the AI results, the AI summaries.
But this is an important one
that is often overlooked.
So I just wanna clarify that, that
if you go do this, and it doesn't
mean you're gonna all of a sudden
skyrocket to the top if you also
have to have really good content.
There are other facets to it,
but this is an important piece.
AnnieLaurie: I'm glad you clarified that
because , there is a lot of really great
content out there that might not get
the attention it deserves because it's
missing this somewhat small piece of
code on the back end of their website.
But on the other hand, if you have
terrible content that's not actually
accomplishing anything, then.
Adding schema to it, is
it gonna make it better?
It's like putting lipstick on a pig,
Steve: but for the good
content, this could be enough
to help push it up just enough.
AnnieLaurie: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It would help you be more competitive
in this new search ecosystem that AI
generated search is creating as we speak.
So this means companies need to be
very intentional about the quality.
Accuracy and accessibility
of their content.
This isn't just about ranking
on page one of Google anymore.
It's about being credible enough
to get cited in AI search results
Steve: And another critical part of
this overall shift is AI citations,
and we wrote about this recently.
AI engines like copilot chat, GPT,
with browsing capabilities, cite their
sources and being cited by AI is becoming
a new, digital marketing slash seo.
Metric.
And, and so while we're talking
about this, another thing to keep
in mind is overall page authority.
So you can use any sort of an SEO
tool, like, SEM, rush, or ah, refs.
They will assign a website, they'll
assign pages, an authority score,
and this is a combination of different
factors, but basically it's a single
number that represents how trustworthy and
how authoritative your page, your site.
Is in the eyes of the search engines.
And you know, Google has their
algorithm that they use to calculate,
some type of a score that's never,
you know, you can't get access to it.
So it's a mystery.
But they effectively rank
pages and websites and so.
That can be a quick metric as
to how well your site is doing.
And just know it takes a really
long time to move that because
again, it's a combination of all
of these different, activities.
You know, credibility.
Again, page authority could
be an indicator of that.
It's based on clear structured data.
It's your backlinks, it's the
technical build of your site.
It's the schema that
we were talking about.
It's the structure of the pages.
Again, there's all sorts of different
things that go into an influence,
your authority, your credibility, but
ultimately, at the end of the day,
you wanna structure your data, create
content that answers buyer's questions
in order to help these AI tools
identify your business as an authority.
AnnieLaurie: Yes.
And also, wanted to mention when we're
talking about, the best practices
a business can do to increase
and establish their credibility
through their online presence is
to not only write the wonderful,
helpful content that answers buyer's
questions, but also case studies and.
Use cases and examples of how your
service or your product is helping people.
In real life.
And I think that that is another important
thing that a lot of times you might see
on a website a whole separate section
on case studies, and that's important
to have and do, but also to embed those
examples within your blog content and
your content marketing strategies.
If you can have a goal to place some sort
of direct connection to how what you're
saying has helped someone you've served,
that is another really strong way to
raise your credibility and your authority.
That goes into, the EAT
framework that we've talked
about some on previous podcasts.
Steve, do you mind just giving a quick
rundown on what the EAT framework is?
Steve: So the, the EAT
framework is what Google.
Shared a few years ago in terms of
the type of content that it's going to
consider trustworthy and worth ranking.
There's a, there's an article on
our website that talks about that.
And so E is experience, expertise,
authority, and trustworthiness.
And I'm not gonna elaborate on that.
Now.
You can read about it, you can
Google search it, or chat, GPT,
search it and get an overview.
But basically it's creating
content that is authoritative.
It answers your buyer's
questions, and it's helpful.
It's not a sales pitch.
It's genuinely trying to be
helpful in your area of expertise.
That's the kind of content that Google's
looking for because that's the type of
content your buyers are looking for.
AnnieLaurie: Right?
And I mention it in conjunction with
this discussion on how to rank in
AI tools because even though EAT
is something designed for Google
search engine results page ranks.
Also, when you are following the
principles of E it will increase the
confidence and the authority and the
credibility that your website has.
And so when you're checking those boxes,
you're also getting the benefit of
being seen as an authority to the AI
search tools when they're searching.
Steve: You know, the, the funny
thing is, is we, we talk a lot
in our marketing framework about.
Informing with content, answering your
buyer's questions, educating, becoming
that trusted voice in your space.
And if you've ever read StoryBrand by
Donald Miller, that's a key principle
is establishing your authority, your
credibility, your trustworthiness, and
really at the heart of this, yes, there
are technical things that you want to do,
like schema, there's backlink generation.
At the heart of it is, does
your content answer your buyer's
questions in a way that's unbiased?
It's educational, it's authoritative.
It demonstrates your
expertise, your credibility.
And if you're not doing that, all the
technical setup in the world isn't
going to help you because the AI
engines are designed to function as
a human would, and it's looking for
websites and content that is clear.
It's establishing trust and credibility,
and it's providing meaningful answers.
AnnieLaurie: Steve, let's talk about how
AI searches are changing user behavior.
When would someone choose to use chat
GPT or perplexity over a Google search?
Steve: Typically what
we're seeing is that.
People turn to AI when they're looking for
a summary, contextual information quickly.
So it could be strategic advice
or, , comparing two different services
or companies, or they're looking
for, a detailed topic summary.
You know, so you can think about
if it's something that you would
typically go to multiple websites.
To gather information and consolidate
that into a report or to a summary,
or you're making a comparison.
So you're reading over here, you're
watching this video, you're doing this.
Those are the types of scenarios where
AI is super helpful because it will
go and do that for you so that you can
review this summary of it as opposed
to having to go and research it of
the dozen different websites yourself.
You know, let chat go do that.
Let perplexity go do that instead.
AnnieLaurie: B2B companies
have traditionally long
sales cycles, buying cycles.
Someone looking for a product or
service in the B2B space may do
research on this topic for months.
Give us an example of how.
A buyer in that position might use chat
GPT or perplexity to help them research
a specific type of product or a service.
Like what would that look like?
Steve: So, you know, part of it's
gonna depend on a couple of things.
Part of it's gonna depend on
what's their experience with
the service they're looking for.
This is a service that
they've researched before.
They already know who the
players in that space are.
Then they might start
by doing a comparison.
They might go to search and say, give
me a comparison of vendor A, B, and C.
Find reviews, find, examples of the work
they've done, and they go and they let
chat GPT to do that initial research
for them, for somebody that may be
new to that type of service, you know,
let's use the startup as an example here.
Let's say the business has gotten
to the point where they need to
hire a bookkeeper and they've
never hired a bookkeeper before.
I know this isn't the long sales cycle
that a B2B company would have or that
a lot have, but it explains the point.
At that point, they might start asking
questions of what does a bookkeeper do?
So the questions would start off more
top of the funnel, basic education,
and then they could start digging into,
okay, well who are the bookkeepers
who might work in my industry?
Near me, or, you know, give me a
comparison of these different options.
Or how do I hire, how do I
find a trustworthy, bookkeeper?
And then as they get further
into the funnel, they're
making different comparisons.
But all of that could be
done in a conversation with
Chad, GPT, or perplexity.
Without ever having to actually
go and scan a bunch of websites.
And in that scenario, and in the case
of a bigger, more complex sales cycle,
again, you could be gathering some of
this data pulling industry resources
and research and summarizing it.
I mean, that would be another example
of in a longer B2B, you have some spaces
where you have research firms like
Gartner that put out annual reports
and summaries in their, indexing of
the vendors in a particular space.
You know, I mean, that's one of our, one
of our clients, they're mixed in there
in this specific industry with, with
Gartner, and so it could be taking those
industry resources that Gartner publishes.
You take that, you put that into
chat, GPT, you could pull other
information, research documents you
pull from other, firms and experts
and white papers and all this.
These other data sources, and
you put it all into chat, GPT.
And so now it's not just about
researching online, but it's
consolidating and summarizing a lot of
this information in a single source.
So a again, it's not just what's happening
on your website, it's a bigger landscape.
If you will, but that's where some of
these AI tools can put a lot of that
research into a centralized place.
And it can also reduce, you know,
the person who's doing the research,
it's faster, and they can get more
information from AI in general to
interpret the data, filter it, et cetera.
AnnieLaurie: This also reminds me of a
point to make about having diversified
content on your website because as
you're describing, it's when a user
is using a tool like chat, GPT to do
research on a major buying decision,
they might not just say, Hey, go search
the internet and tell me what you find.
They may have collected a white paper
from your site and a white paper from.
Someone else's site and some other
content reports like you mentioned
with Gartner, they might have all
of that downloaded on the computer.
You can download that back up to Chat
G PT and have it analyze all of this
and say, here's what I'm looking for
based on all of this data I've provided
you, what is gonna be the best solution?
And so.
That makes the case for having a lot of
different types of content on your website
so that when buyers are coming to do the
80% of research they're gonna do before
they ever pick up a phone and call you.
Then they will see, oh,
I can download this.
I can grab onto this and do that.
Deep dive into the research before
they are going to go and make this
really expensive buying decision.
So I think that is a really interesting
point to make in the context of this,
that having different types of content
on your website is gonna help as buyer
behavior changes in the way that they
research products and services before
they actually call a salesperson.
Steve, one more thing I'd like to call
out before we move on to our next section
is that when you think about traditional
SEO search engine optimization, the
backbone of SEO is keyword research.
You are looking for the keywords
that people are typing into the
search bar in Google or Bing or
whatever their tool they're using is.
You are trying to have specific keywords
in the right places on your website
so that when search algorithms crawl
the internet looking to match the
best content to the term provided.
Your content has the best
chance of ranking on page one.
That's a very distilled version of
the content side of traditional SEO.
The point that I really wanna
make that I hope really lands with
our listeners is that AI driven
search isn't looking for keywords.
Is it's not built to look for keywords.
That is not the point of it.
So you have this entire SEO industry
that has been based on keyword
research and having the right keywords
in the right places and having the
great content and meeting those EAT
standards that we mentioned before.
But AI isn't looking for keywords, so.
Does that mean you
abandon keyword research?
No, it doesn't.
That all is still important and
Google still is the go-to source for
searching over AI today in July of 2025.
But think about the breakneck speed that
AI is changing the world that we live in.
You have an opportunity now
to add this new layer on top
of what you're already doing.
You're already doing the keyword research,
you're already writing the good content.
Now let's make sure that you're just
doing a few more steps to be found and
cited by these other AI tools because now.
You have this opportunity to go out
in what we would call Blue ocean.
You know, this is a blue ocean opportunity
for you to stake your ground in this new
digital ecosystem where your buyers are
searching for information that you have.
Your competitors are probably not
doing this yet, so this is a great
opportunity for you to get out in
front of all of that and not just
rely on keywords to be found, but to.
Structure your content and write it
in such a way that is conversational,
relatable, and informative, but
also structured technically so that
it can be identified and returned
and cited in an AI search result.
Steve: And, AnnieLaurie.
Before we finish on this section
here, I think it's important to note.
This is a quickly changing landscape
and know the chat, GPT, Google.
They don't just come out and say,
here's exactly what you need to do.
Now.
AI is close.
You could ask it what you need
to do on your website to show
up in its recommendations,
and it'll give you guidance.
But this is an ever changing landscape
and it's going to continue to change.
So this is something as a CEO, as
a marketer to pay attention to on a
recurring, ongoing basis because we might
be looking at something different six
months from now based on what's happening.
So you gotta stay in tune with this.
Nobody owns the right formula
for figuring this all out.
And there are a lot of people
who are listening and learning
and testing and experimenting.
And so just pay attention.
And again, don't be surprised
when what's working today isn't
working six months from now.
And it's something different.
AnnieLaurie: And that's a great
segue into our next section because
one way that you can stay on top
of it is paying attention to what.
The people testing these new
tools are saying, and Steve,
you're one of those people.
You've been an early adopter of ai.
You have tested multiple tools, you
have experimented in various ways with
using AI, but what I'd like to call
out is that you've spoken at several
Chamber of Commerce events here in
Memphis lately about AI and marketing,
and they've been widely attended people.
Want to know how AI is changing marketing.
So tell us a little bit about that.
What are you hearing from the CEOs and
the business owners and leaders who
attend the events that you speak at?
Like what are they asking and
where is this on their radar?
Steve: You know, it, it's.
It's a mixed bag, AnnieLaurie One
of the questions I typically ask is,
on a scale of one to 10, where are
you in terms of your comfort level
and your experience of using ai?
And still, half the people in the
room are typically five or less.
They've dabbled in it, maybe
they've used it once or twice.
They're using Microsoft 365
and co-pilot's now built in.
So they've tested it out.
Some of the CEOs, the business
owners, the marketers are intrigued.
They can see the potential,
but they're overwhelmed.
They don't have the bandwidth
to try to figure it out.
There are some who are really unaware of
how much and how quickly this is changing,
especially in the area of buyer behavior,
especially in terms of the drop that
sites are going to see in organic traffic.
Because now AI is giving the summary
results and people don't have to click
through to your site to get the answer.
I mean, we're seeing this . And
you know, right now really is a
big opportunity because again,
in this, in these conversations.
I would say less than 20% of the people
in the room are a nine or a 10 in
terms of their comfort level, their
experience, where they're using it
regularly and they're good with it.
They're proficient with it.
And so, as you mentioned earlier,
this is a unique opportunity.
I think you could say this is
a blue ocean type moment where.
In a lot of spaces, if you are the
first one or one of the first in your
space of your competitors to start
using these tools to start , making
the shifts, then you're gonna see the
fruit of that and you're gonna be in
a better position and than some of
your competitors that, are unaware.
AnnieLaurie: You know, I was actually
having this conversation with another
member of our team who is our web
developer, and we were just talking about
how, even with the AI search results,
like we're talking this, this podcast is
all about how to get your content to be
featured in AI generated search results.
Right?
So we were talking about
how even with that, it's.
The way AI is changing the landscape
when you're in chat, GPT, if chat
GPT is pulling from your content
and they're even citing your content
and providing a link back to your
content, like what are the chances
the person's gonna click that link?
You know how, you know, he's thinking
about it in terms of like tracking
traffic, you know, did how is, how would
a Google GA four track the traffic from
a chat GPT, click back to your website?
And it's things like that we're
just talking about how it's.
You know, when you just think about
users and how users interact with
content, it's probably not gonna be
as big of like a, it's probably not
gonna be as large a volume of traffic.
Coming back to your website from a chat
GPT link that someone clicked, but.
What what it does is it
continues to support and
underscore your branding efforts.
And one thing that we've talked
about a lot as a team is one way
to combat zero click search is,
like you said, zero click search.
Even just in take Google alone.
That in and of itself is causing.
Organic traffic to dip.
And so branding is becoming
even more important.
Social media engagement is becoming
even more important, so my question
for you, Steve, is for someone who.
Maybe listening who attended one
of your speaking events lately?
What would you say to
them about where to focus?
Like if, if I can't rely on SEO
or even a EO to be the driver of
traffic that it used to be to.
Where should I be focusing my
attention next or in addition to,
not in place of, but what thing do I
need to be elevating that I might not
be doing right now or not be doing
enough of that I need to do more of?
Steve: So I think it's
parallel tracks here.
So I'm gonna run this parallel tracks.
The first thing I would say is make
sure that you have a clear understanding
of who your target audience is.
And this goes back to strategy.
Do you have a clear definition of
your target audience, the problems
that they face that you solve?
And then do you have a clear understanding
of the questions that they are asking?
If you do.
Then you need to make sure
that you are creating content
that answers those questions.
Because for a lot of folks, the, the
problem isn't that they don't have schema.
Yes, you need to address that, but
they don't have a content strategy
that's creating the information
for the website, for social media.
The videos that genuinely answers buyer's
questions, builds trust, and establishes
you as the authority in your space.
If you don't have that s scheme is not
gonna save the day, so start there.
Now if you do have that, you want to
then make sure that, you're evaluating
your current content strategy, your
website strategy, have the schema
markup, include comprehensive FAQs,
and just make sure that your content
is following the EAT framework and, you
know, use AI to streamline this process.
There are a lot of different
ways that you can leverage that
so that it's a powerful ally.
Hey, this is Steve.
If this conversation about answer
engine optimization is making
your head spin, you are not alone.
We've talked to a lot of CEOs
and marketing leaders who feel
overwhelmed by all of these changes.
They're happening so quickly.
So here's the good news.
You don't have to go this alone.
You don't have to figure
it all out on your own.
Here at Wayfind marketing, we
offer focused marketing coaching,
tailored specifically for CEOs and
marketing teams in the B2B space.
In that process, we help you
develop a clear strategy.
We train your team on the latest
AI driven marketing practices
and how to use AI tools to ensure
that your content stands out in a
crowded, noisy, digital landscape.
You can visit wayfind marketing.com
to schedule a call, and that's the first
step in turning complexity into clarity.
AnnieLaurie: Okay, Steve,
let's wrap this up.
AI driven search isn't going away.
It's accelerating.
The businesses that start
optimizing for it now will be
miles ahead in the next few years.
Steve: Absolutely.
Take action today.
Don't wait.
Head on to wayfind marketing.com.
Grab our AI marketing guide
and you can also take our free.
Marketing assessment and then get
access to our marketing playbook.
Don't wait until your
competitors are already there.
AnnieLaurie: Thanks for joining
us on another episode of the
Growth-Minded Marketing podcast.
Keep listening.
We've got more AI insights
coming your way soon.