Dr. Brittany Herrick Mental Health Consultant

Dr. Brittany gives us the tools for athletes to deal with adversity , pressure, stress, and over all mental health

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Topics for Club, High School and AAU Basketball

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You're listening to the CBA podcast where we talk everything basketball from club to AU to high school to college. CBA podcast is brought to you by Chapman Basketball Academy. Your hosts for the podcast are Terry Massey, Max Johansson, and Joe Chapman.

All right, here we go. Third one. Today's podcast is probably going to be one of the more important ones that we do. Had a lot of good guests in the past. Steve, Travis, Craig, the referees, multi -sport. This one here is going to be pretty special. Today, our guest is Brittany Herrick. She is a certified mental performance consultant. Welcome.

Thank you. No pressure at all after that intro. I think that was the best intro you gave. Right. That was good. I just took a screenshot of what Joe sent me and then with all my information. So my email signature is good then. It is very good. Why don't we start by just saying what it is that you do and your background and how you got into it. Sure. So it isn't just being a certified mental performance consultant. I'm a sports psych.

So my doctor is in sport performance sports psychology and performance. Sorry, and I work with individuals and groups predominately in the athletic space just to address mental skills develop those skills improve the mindset of course The goal is to optimize performance and I do that through mental training Mm -hmm. And what made you get into that? You know, cuz we're gonna dive it like you you're you're a player. You're a basketball player

You dealt with a lot of adversity yourself with, you know, bouncing back from, you know, three ACLs, injuries. And you're a really good player. Went on and you got, you played at Oshkosh, correct? And you were really good there and you got a chance to play overseas as well. So just talk about how you got into this space that you're in now and how did it, you know, kind of mold you because everyone's, we're all into something, you know, and how did that, all your, you know,

life lessons and things that you had to deal with adversity help you get into the space that you're in now? Yeah, I think I got into the space now because I got into coaching. And I always referenced the circus family, but I think a really wonky approach to how I got to where I was.

So there's a short story basically is once I came back from playing professionally, it was kind of like, what do I do? And I was an English major and I didn't want to teach. So parents were thrilled. So I said, what do I want to do with my life? And I'd always fallen into coaching. As a basketball player, constantly doing camps and all that, I went, OK, let's do this. So I coached AAU. I coached at the high school level, freshman and JV. And I went, yeah, I really like this. And I loved working with the kids. And I'm like, what?

kind of went, oh yeah, this is a career for some people. So I really started pursuing coaching. So I was at Whitewater for a year. I was at Concordia University, Wisconsin for, I don't know, four or five. The math gets wonky when you get my age. And then my last place I coached was at UW -Stout. And just a culmination of things, and we can dive into some of that. But kind of as I'm sitting there going, you know what, we're our kids. And call my players my kids, because that's how I feel about them. But.

we're missing things, not just when they're coming and going, coach, I have a paper due, and I don't know, when's your paper due? Tomorrow. Okay, let's, you know, and so there's some of those kind of almost less life skill things. I'm going, why are we giving this to our kids? Like, how can we help them? And then from that performance side, and I could just see they're struggling with some of the pressure maybe that we as coaches are putting on them, or they're seeing, WEAC is a really strong conference. There's a lot of pressure there. I just went, we're not doing things that we could be doing to help them.

and they're not getting that from somewhere else, and that's not necessarily anyone's fault. So I want to help these kids in a better way, and I kind of don't think coaching is for me, because I treasured the moments when they are kind of rushing in, coaching, I do something, or it's like, hey, coach, I've got, you know, I know where to kill, let's chat. And I was like, yes, let's do this. So I decided I'm going to go get my doctorate, and I thought that the best way to do.

like to help them was to create these initiatives in the university as an athletic director. And then as I was in my program, there's this whole clinical side. And I went, this is cool. I mean, I get to work directly with athletes. I get to work with teams. I get to work with coaches. And for me, the other piece too was, how can I help coaches be better coaches? Whether it's just kind of people trying to transition from what that old school kind of mentality was to even just how do we better?

help these kids today because they are different. And not in a negative way. They're literally neurologically different because we have this really cool screen in front of us all the time now. So that's really how I got into it. And I honestly started my own practice just because when I finished school, the lockdowns happened. And so nobody's hiring in sports. Sports didn't exist for a while. So I went.

Well, as long as I'm here, I might as well do this. And this is a great area for, and youth sports in particular, youth sports is truly where my heart is. I've worked with older athletes and I've worked with non -athletes. But I love working with the youth because I think they're fun. They're challenging, but they're fun. Yeah. And that's how we got introduced. And I think that's how our bridge crawls doing that COVID year, 2019, 2020. A lot of our athletes were struggling mentally, being locked down for that long, not having things to do that.

that the cycle of doing everything every day was gone. So for a lot of people who are one percenters, who the gym is kind of your definition of who you are, you take that away from you. Now you gotta start answering real questions. So a lot of us don't have to answer those questions like when you're retired, you start answering those questions.

When I retired I started answering questions now some of these kids are stuck for nine ten months answering questions about Are we going to get back to normal and am I going to play? In college and we see the effects of that now with the fifth year and the transfer portal what that did to that COVID The kovac is what I call it. That's the kovac kids, you know, so and I think the 24 class is the last of the kovac is order 25 class This one this is the last one

Yeah, it's the last that's like, you know, they missed homecoming, they missed some proms, they missed, they had to wear masks while they were playing. So that was our introduction to you. Yeah, you were one of my first groups I ever worked with. And we needed that. There was so much positive stuff that came out of.

you know, our Zoom meetings that we did and, you know, doing cool stuff that we're gonna talk about. But just to see the kids kind of open up and talk about different struggles that they had and for you to be kind enough to answer questions and to meet with people and talk to them. As a former athlete, you know, that's the stuff we wish we had, you know. Gosh, that would have loved us for a second. Oh, I would have loved it. But it was such a taboo, you know, 20, 25 years ago. Like, you know, well, 10 years ago. I mean, it's...

Is this something that wasn't talked about or was so much frowned upon that if you had someone you trusted to talk to about your issues or things that you're just going on or just to talk about your day, it would go a long way of helping, especially the kids and players that retire about what's next. Because we all deal with like, oh boy, what's next? I always refer to it like, what is it called, PTSD for athletes. Obviously it's not that.

extreme but for a lot of us that picked up a ball at nine and now you're done even if it's 18 or

I was 32, 31 at the time. It's still a transition that you you back into the real world. And that's a struggle for a lot of people when you put that much time into it. And now it's over. I mean, it's your identity. It's your identity. We don't talk about like the whole holistic development of, yes, you're an athlete, but you're also these other things. And sometimes that's the external. And sometimes that's you know, that was me as a as a kid, too. I was like, oh, basketball player. Right. I do. So, yeah, whenever that ends, it's always challenging. Yeah.

or low for your career. It's hard. Right. And with all with the I want to talk about the three injuries that you had. Yes. And I want to talk about how you had to overcome your hurdles of all three of them and still become a hell of a college player and a professional player because that's not easy to do. I've tore my Achilles. I tore my ACL. So I know the pressures of bouncing back and to perform still at a high level. But talk about that journey for you and what that done for your career.

Sure. So I'm sitting there going, gosh, when was that? My first one was when I was 13. It was like the end of seventh grade. I vividly remember when that happened.

And it was kind of lucky. Now, granted, I'm old, so he was just kind of starting. So I just missed like an season. And again, the recruiting landscape and all that very different back in the Stone Age. And then I tore my ACL again, the end of my eighth grade or eighth grade going into high school. So I missed my freshman year of high school basketball and I missed my senior year. And that freshman year and senior year, obviously, like that was I mean, for me, it was devastating because again, I.

I still am, but I identified as an athlete. That was my main thing. And I think what was really hard for me, because when I had my goals, I was like, I'm playing Division I, I'm doing this and all these things. And at that time, perspective now, but at that time it was really hard because those D1 schools were not interested in me, which I understand, it is a business. And I had a couple that were still there, and I was like, sweet, this is great. And then senior year's gone, you're like, oh man.

What am I going to do? Where am I going to go? And.

My parents were amazing through all of them. Of course, my mom was a little more emotional than my dad, but my dad, and I don't know why it was so impactful, I think, because for him, my mom played sports and she'll be like, I never got the opportunity to be an athlete, but my dad was an athlete. He got drafted by the Browns. So he was kind of in that and he goes, listen, if you wanna quit basketball and just go to school, he's like, that's okay. And that was important. But at the same time, I'm like, oh no. Clearly, we had.

need to have a conversation like no I'm playing and so at that point I was like okay what's realistic so

You know, what's challenging is when you when you have those injuries at any of those times. And of course, my experience is going to be different. But in all of those times, what was hard is not only am I not playing basketball, but that's where my social group was correct. Right. So I'm not seeing those, especially in the summer. I'm not seeing them as much because they're out doing AAU. They're traveling. They're doing those things. And the other piece to that was they kind of forget that you can't do these things. And in my class,

close friend group, basketball was my everything, where for them, they're like, it's just this thing that we do. So it was also really hard to find someone, no, I don't think you understand. This is what I do. Why do you not? So that was really challenging.

I'll be honest, for me, especially my senior year, again, it was the hardest one for me. It was I really got into my faith and started kind of going through that journey. And I think that was really impactful. And at that time, too, gosh, my senior year, I think we had six total girls in our basketball program tear their ACL. So we were ramping up for this really amazing, heavy senior team. I went to Xavier. So who? What an upset state. Yeah, this year. Great job. But, you know, so that was in some ways maybe gave me

something to do because able to, hey, my teammates and I, we're all doing rehab, unfortunately, on the sidelines. And I had really supportive coaching staff that was like, we want you to be involved. We want you to come to practice. And again, for me, I went, that's obviously I'm coming to practice. To me, that just wasn't an option because it's kind of, what am I going to do? We didn't have YouTube and TikTok and all these things or Netflix even for me to, you what am I going to do? So I that was cool. And my parents, you know, all through that were really supportive. Like my mom would still come to games. My dad made sure he came to senior night.

So I think that I was really fortunate to where I had that good like family support system at that time. And again, I'm just really blessed that I was able to go play for a really strong program. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about Oshkosh. Sure. Yeah, because that was that was a great landing spot after all that happened to you. Yeah, it was a great landing spot and you were all American there. Yeah. So yeah, that's not that you know, that's the hard part for all of us is like every athlete we had on here.

they don't want to talk about themselves. It's more so like you did so much cool stuff that the normal player would never get a chance to do. 90 % of all these players won't get a chance to experience playing professionally, being an All -American. That's just something that's not normal.

So talk about your experience there. Oh gosh. I mean, I loved it. I mean, I just loved it. My closest friends were from there. Because again, it's not just like your high school season where, yeah, maybe we show up. I know it's a little bit more serious now. But we're not just showing up for some work. We are showing up. We are doing this. These are expectations. And my freshman year was challenging because I'm coming from not training for a year. And there was no fear. I'm like, I'm doing this. It's fine. No big deal.

but just going, oh yeah, like my timing was a little off. Like for me, I'll be honest, it was really frustrating, because I have really good hands. And it took a minute for me to not just get back to it, but again, high school to college, that's a little different. And obviously, I didn't realize it until later reflecting, oh yeah, that made it more challenging. So I did struggle, and I was like, gosh, do I want to transfer what's going on here? And I'll be honest, I think I got knocked down a peg or two, because I was cocky.

And it was like, I'm not getting minutes. Why is this person playing over me? I know I'm better. And I'm glad I didn't transfer.

you know, my coaches, you know, they sat down and talked to me and they're like, hey, if you want to go talk to a school, go talk like back then we had to get permission and things like that. Right. You know, the D3 level. And so they were they were cool about it. They were going, why would you want to do that? Like, we don't want you doing this. So I think that maybe it was reverse psychology. Yeah. But I did have a good support system there and I just had fun. I mean.

I won't say every year, because I'm not going to lie to y 'all. But we had a couple years of incredible team chemistry. And I'm not going to say we were all friends off the court. But when we were like, we're showing up to practice, we're taking care of business. And it is OK if we're not all hanging out afterwards. One person we hang out enough with all the other stuff that we do. And so it was fun. I played with, I mean, I played with, I call her Miss Universe. But she was like a Justin's player of the year and things like that. And now they're all like, oh, I'm going to be a Miss Universe.

doing amazing things. So you know I look back going I was meant to go here. I was meant to meet these these women because they are forces in the world right now and there's always that oh man if I would have gone D1 what would that been like? I would have met these people right and it's hard sometimes even now sometimes like it's hard especially you know NCAA tournament time I'm like yeah this is great let's go. And you're looking at the screen. I know I was like oh the games on let me see what's happening.

So it's like I still get I mean, I still get that feeling like, oh, yeah, I'm going, dude, you don't play anymore.

You're not fit to carry these ladies' water bottles. Just sit down and watch on the TV. But yeah, it was a great time. And I have teammates that can tell you stats and be like, yeah, this is where it was in the game. Two minutes left. I'm going, I have no idea. I couldn't tell you for the life of me. I remember a couple big wins that we had. But truly, at the end of the day, and it's cheesy, and sports is cheesy because it's true a lot of times, my teammates and just those experiences were amazing. And even the crummy workouts and even the road trips that went horribly wrong.

We're fun. And now it's like, it was great. Because that's what you remember, you know, all of us. That's what we miss the most of being a part of a group, the camaraderie. Absolutely. Something bigger than yourself. You know, the wins and losses and championships and, you know.

Individual accolades, they're all get fuzzy as you get older. They all get made up of his stories, you know, average 20 when it was really eight. But all this stuff happens. But the relationships and friendships and the people you meet on and off the court is why I always say I think people are meant to go where they meant to be, you know, and it all makes sense. You probably want to go this and there, but God put you here. Yes. And it's for a reason, you know, and I always say that.

every kid that's going down that path of when Max are going through the recruiting battle with all these kids, like, oh, I want to be here and there. And it's like, no, this is your spot. This coach really likes you as a person. That team has got three, four year players that's going to be there. It's not a lot of transfer portal kids. You want to take your kids where they're going to be successful. And I think that's a huge part of the growth.

Yeah, and I think what you mentioned was you got knocked down a couple pegs. And like going through high school, you were thinking Division 1 and ended up at Oshkosh probably due to more injuries rather than play. But could you touch on just the level, the skill level of the WIAC, the Oshkosh school? And even remember your tournament runs potentially of playing other.

high level Division III programs and just how high of a level that is. Gosh, it's so good. I think in D1, you tend to have kind of the coasts that are really, really strong. In D3, it is the Midwest schools. Oh, 100%. You get a couple out there every now and then, but it's really the Midwest. And the WIEC, all you got to do is kind of look at what they're doing in the NCAA tournament. And obviously, the landscape is very different now. But back in the day, it was like, OK, if we're not going to a D1 in Wisconsin,

you want to leave? No. And so some schools, I don't want to say got lucky, but kind of got lucky. And they're getting D1 caliber, D2 caliber athletes because they're local. And I don't mean that, again, in a negative way. But there are strong schools. And you have strong competition. It's not like you're in a conference where it's two teams dominating the entire time. And everyone else kind of gets thunderwumped.

And then obviously you're playing the game of, OK, we have to get the rankings and make sure we're looking at putting together a good resume for the tournament. So we played the top teams in the country. I we were in the, I don't know if it was every year, but we were typically in the top 25. We did get like a number one once, then we got our butts handed to us. That happened. Yeah, it happened. We probably deserved, again, knocked down a peg. But.

It was physical, and I remember kind of with this D3 thing when I went in there thinking, I'm really a forward, I'm physical, I'm strong, part of that due to the ACLs previously, because I started strength training much earlier than most people my age at that time, and it's physical. I'm going against girls that are six four, six five, and they're like, oh. And so, too, having to adapt and.

this is how I have to improve my skill. You have to get creative, too. It's not like, oh, shoot, this chick six, five and blocks my shot every time. What are you going to do about it? Right. I was like, I mean, sit in your dirty diaper. Are you going to change it? Is kind of how I phrase all the time. And I do think we got some really good transfers that were at D1s and D2s and didn't like it for whatever reason. So they came and again, really blessed again to play with just good athletes. And I think it's even more obvious now the we ex only getting better.

And I'm very happy that our conference gets some more bids and still be tournament because back then it was like one team. They didn't like us So it's really cool just to see how the game is grown and the talents really the parody in that conference is is good I mean, it's crazy how good it's gotten Yeah, talk about the girls game a little bit of what you've seen from the last 20 years of the girls game of how popular it is now and also the skill level and coaching of like

It's stupid. It's just, I mean, one, I do miss my traditional post players, although every now and then you get those coming back, but it's so much faster pace and it's so much more physical. And I think people are starting to understand that basketball in general is a physical game, but girls' basketball, women's basketball is physical.

And I actually recall my first time ever knowing that this college women's basketball thing existed. It was 1995. I remember at my grandma's house, it was Easter, and it was UConn, Tennessee, Stanford, Old Dominion. And that was UConn's 35 and 0 run. And so Rebecca Lobo fan for life. And if I'm working with the kid and they're basketball player, I'm like, could you just check out Rebecca Lobo? But.

So I just was like, I couldn't get enough of watching it. And it was hard. And then you had the 96 Olympics. And then the WNBA started. And so that was my trick to get at chores. Dad, there's a WNBA game. Can I watch it? And my dad was great. He's like, yeah, go ahead. I still had to do the chores. But I got postponed. And I still couldn't get enough of the information. And now I'm sitting there going, not that you can just watch a YouTube video and execute, right? You guys all work with athletes. You know, that's not quite how it works.

But I mean the excitement around the women's game.

And I mean, you can't deny that Caitlin Clark has a big part in it, but the parody of the women's game. So I mean, you can't fan for life. And I had people, you know, let's say 10, probably 10 years or so. You can't set a rough few years here. But like, I don't want to watch the final four because you can't send it in there. Thunder won't everybody. And I just went, yeah, but they do it so beautifully. Right. And I just loved the skill of and you weren't seeing that. So now, gosh, there are so many teams where it could be on any given day. Somebody could beat somebody.

which traditionally has not been the case. And it's really pretty. And it's I love I love fundamentals. It's fundamentally sound, but it's I mean, it's athletic. I just and the hype around I have people asking me that I'm like, you barely even watch basketball, but they're tuning into the women's game right now. And to be perfectly frank, I love that the Big Ten has gotten better because if if the Big Ten is not as strong as it is right now, I think Caitlin Clark

has a little bit different impact because people are watching those games. So I think that also, again, all what's the rising tides raise all ships. And I think we've really seen almost an explosion like in the last five, six years where, yes, there's been a push to put women's games on more, which obviously helps. But I think the coaches, the women's players and things have kind of risen to that occasion and said, all right, we are going to get better.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there's a Caitlin Clark shirt every single time in the gym. There's Sabrina shoes. Yeah. And we're talking about that in one of our last podcasts is where in 95, 96 when Cheryl swoops had her shoes. Yes, she had her shoes and that was huge for women's basketball. But you didn't see men wearing Cheryl swoops. My kid just got a pair of girl shoes that he can customize. Right. Right. Now in these days.

we have guys wearing girl shoes. You didn't do that 20 years ago. You know, so Sabrina's shoes is so popular and you get guys, girls, she got so many cool colorways, Stewies are out. She's got so many cool colorways. And it's like, you didn't see that back then. You got Caitlin Clark on State Farm commercials and you're like, this is so different. Obviously the NIL is just crazy to see college athletes get this much. Um,

We were on video games and we wasn't making any money off of it. It was just a number. It was just a number. I was like, who's that? And one of the games, I was really white. I was like, how did they mess that up? And just to see how the change of times is like every year is getting better and better for all of our athletes as far as being compensated. Because we all wish we would have got something when we play.

But just to see where the game is going with these girls, it's just like so impowerful. But I do want to talk about what made you want to get into sports psychologists on a youth level. Because that's very hard to talk to kids about what they're doing. And being their safe haven too. And not, you know.

telling, you know, like they want to believe in you and you telling they want to make sure that whatever you telling them is. And their brains are not fully developed. It's hard. Trying to figure out what life is. Yeah. And you come in and kind of help them through that. Like the worst part of their life is like 13 to like 18. You know, sometimes you come in and try to help them, you know, unwind a little bit. So why did you want to talk, do that with youth kids?

That's a really good question. I think the first thing was I had colleagues and supervisors that did work with professionals in the space. And my direct supervisor worked with the MLB team. And so it's not just, you're not just working with the Milwaukee Brewers. It's all their farm teams. And you're going to, he was in Venezuela, he was in Arizona, and he was all over the place. And I just went, part of why I was kind of done with coaching was I wanted more.

balance in my life. I went, I'm just not going to get this. That was part of it. I didn't want to kind of be on the beckon call. But the other piece was.

I won't say her name, but I had a player that I coached and I coached at the high school level and so super nice, worked so hard, not the most talented, but like those are the ones that get the coach's heart. Right. Yes. But she worked really, really hard at a skill and all of a sudden just something clicked and she did it in a game and the look on her face. And I was like, that's confidence. And I think particularly I think I think I'm seeing more, you know, young men.

suffer from the lack of confidence as well. So, but for me, I was, I have a soft spot for those young girls who are just kind of like, I don't feel worthy. I don't feel I'm good enough and the honor, thinking the perfectionist. So I just went, how can I help them get these skills? Not that, not that confidence is necessarily a skill, but we can work on skills to help us build their confidence. And I'm like, that's where I want to make that impact. Because if I can help them here at like 12, 13 is really when I start really digging in deep.

Now we have these really impactful developmental years, which like your brain from like 10 to 19. That's huge. Right. Now can we use the toolkit? Can we use the skill and develop it as we go on? So now we're whatever you do in college, whether you're playing or not, keep using them. But let's be honest, the end of the day, we're all going to stop being athletes. So can we now have these tools? I'm like happier, happier, healthier humans is it's so sprinkles and rainbows. That's honestly how I feel. One, we're having these.

is this burnout and less enjoyment. I basketball still brings me joy. It gave me I sacrificed things like I didn't go to my prom because I was in the EU tournament. My choice was totally my choice. I was like getting a dress and like all frilly or basketball game sneakers, you know. So so yeah, there's choices and you're going to miss out on things, but it still brings me such joy to this day. Right. So going back to those experiences I had from college basketball, I mean, I didn't go on my German field trip for high school because I had basketball.

Well, shoot, I went and played in Germany. So it was kind of like the game gave back to me when I gave back to the game. And, you know, I'm really grateful for that. But I think if we can again develop those skills younger, gosh, what better experiences not just in sport, but in life we're going to have these kids. And that that's huge. Right. We're seeing the impact of that mental health right now in the lack of some of those. Some of its lack of skill, some of it. Obviously, there's predispositions to some of these things that are going on. But man, one little.

That's all I want is one little ripple. Right. How much are you seeing with kids with so much pressures they have? Schoolwork, sports, they're trying to make their coach happy, but how much of it is their parents pushing them more than what they need to be doing? Is that majority of what you're seeing? We did a podcast about the parents, good, bad, and ugly, and how out of control parents are, especially nowadays. Mm -hmm.

I think it's hard to speak in generalizations. Now that being said, obviously I said before we got on that one of the reasons I don't want to go back into coaching is I don't want to deal with parents. When I was recruiting as a college coach, every single summer I saw a parent get kicked out of an AAU basketball game. I'm going for what? So sometimes it's the parents who are just.

putting too much pressure and really critical and kind of just being jerky. And other times it's like it comes from this place of love, but it's just not being applied. And so I can't, I'm never gonna put all the blame on the parents. And sometimes it's lack of doing something like my dad was like, it's okay if you don't play. And it wasn't.

it wasn't only about basketball when he was talking to me and asking questions, like there was other stuff. So I think that's part of it too. So it's not just we think of the parents who's going crazy on the sidelines and getting their kids' faces or getting the coach faces, right? Sending the email or text as soon as the game is over, why didn't my kid play more? So it was definitely that, but I think part of it is too is as...

as parents, where's the conversation happening? Like, oh, why do you like basketball? Or where do you want to go with this instead of, hey, if we do really well on this, did you see this coach that was here? Did you see this coach that was here? And I understand, I had a AAU teammate that the only way she was going to college was if she got a scholarship. So I totally get that side of it, too.

But we can still kind of have that in the back of our minds. But parents having that conversation of just like, hey, what did you do that was fun today? And I think that's the hard part, too, is in my position as a club director, we see a lot of parents that live through their kids and not for their kids. Because it's rare to say, it's OK if you don't play. Right. For a parent, because they're like, oh my god. Right. Well, like your dad, he played professionally with the Browns.

and you know I played and the people who know the game.

And just telling your kids like, hey, how was your day at school today? That had nothing to do with basketball. You know, what grades did you, you know, did you get good grades today? Did you say please and thank you today? Did you hold the door for someone like that's the stuff that really matters. And, you know, we don't need to live through our kids. But some people, they put the pressures of the world on their kids because that's their way out, too. You know, and they also know this is the only way that they maybe can afford something for their kids. So they.

put all this pressure on them to be super successful early. Now it's getting earlier and earlier, you know, nine, 10, you know, these kids are thinking they Jordan already and you know, they forget the steps to be Jordan or Curry or whoever they dream to be. And I think that's some of the things that are missing in today's.

As a parent, you know, you always hear, well, I didn't know they were struggling or what are some signs? And I know it's kind of vague and it's kind of hard to think of, but early signs as a parent to notice that your kid is struggling, you know.

Emotionally, I know it's kind of a hard question, but as a parent I don't think we know what to look for sometimes sure and I think It's gonna be a little bit of a politician answer, but I'll get more into it I think part of it is first of all Just try to develop a relationship with your kids and not to be friends right like my job as a coach is not to be your friend And I'm not a parent, but like the jobs a parent. It's not to be their friend right, but I am I do want to ask Hey like or what you do nice for someone say did you hold the door open to see please and thank you right and opening up that conversation so you better understand

Now trust me, I have worked with 13 year olds, I have worked with high school boys, that's not always easy. But I think that's a really good start is making sure that you as a parent, because the questions that you ask, how to practice go today or what coach say to you, whether you intend that or not, sometimes can be like, oh, so it's really important that this happens. So not that you can't ask about practices and sports, but get some of those things in. But, and again, it's hard when you have teenagers, sometimes it's the mood changes.

Is my child having these uncharacteristic outbursts that are going on? And is... as a father of three girls, it's a little harder. Yes. I have apologized to my parents for things I've done in my teens.

sure we all have. I was so mean. I was so mean. Yeah. So I think that's part of it. Like is or and again, you have to know your kid if them kind of hanging out in the room is normal, but like they really just like becoming more withdrawn. And so again, it's hard because everybody is so different. Or how are they talking about, you know, after a game is like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I did it. And it's so many points, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or the coach is so horrible. I can't believe the coach.

Now typically that they're learning that from a parent or again we've got social media and they could be learning it from other spaces but I think that something too is what's the language like of your child? What's happening there? Pay attention and I'll be honest it's hard. I've got little niece and nephews and instead of going oh you did such a great job. Hey you worked really hard for that or that was really thoughtful and that focus on the progress and not the results which is really not how we're wired. Right, right.

Especially in sports, let's be honest. Max talks about that a lot with the process driven, you know. Yeah, rather than results. Rather than results. And I think that's how you have to be with your kids. You got to be process driven, you know, the results or you you're too high, you're too low all the time. I had 20 points now. I want to stay after the game and say hi to everyone.

be a part of the group. Well, now I had five points or zero points and now I'm moody and I'm going right to the locker room. So if you're process driven, that's going to help you be a better person and a better player, you know, as opposed to results, you know, and I think that's what parents spewed that onto their kids as well. It's like, oh, it's the coaches. You only had five today. That was, they didn't run enough plays for you. Now they starting to get a perception of what the coach is, you know, and that's so

one thing that all of us have to do better who have kids and also who are directors and if you feel a certain way about a coach, don't let what you feel about that coach.

let the kid hear it, you know, because now they get all of this information and now it gets harder for them to listen to that coach and listen. They listen to the parent in a crowd and looking at you for reinsurance where now they when they turn 18, 19, they don't have that reinsurance. They can't keep running home to you to say my boss didn't like me or my wife or husband didn't like me. What to do is like you're where we're teaching them, you know, early.

that they can run back. And one of your things you said very early on when we were working together with our kids is having a player learn how to verbalize what to say to a coach.

as opposed to a parent, you know, and I thought that was a huge thing for all those kids. They were taking notes. We're on Zoom. It was 90 to 100 kids. You know, and the kids are writing down things. And one of the questions was, how can I talk to my coach about how I felt about the year? You know, and, you know, you gave great examples of what to do and what to say. And one of the things was, don't bring your parent, you know, this you can go over your list with your parent, but you go in and and try to build a rapport first with your

Now if that doesn't work then we go down different avenues, but I thought that was very special to kind of mention as a coach Again, we saw talked about the parents point of view as a coach point of view We see a lot of cultures that are extremely extremely hard on these young kids As a coach for a girl and girls. I'm not hard on my girls. What is a balance? I mean, how what can these kids take?

I really appreciate all the thoughtful questions today. Thank you. What can they take as a fifth, sixth, seventh grader? How much can they take? I almost go, I don't think it's necessarily how much they can take. It's what are you giving them in the sense of, so don't get me twisted. My dad coached me. My dad might have been one of the hardest coaches I had, but he was never demeaning. I mean, we had some fun on the ride home talks after games. Right.

That's to be expected as a coach's kid, but he was always really fair and...

I was in middle school, so I was in that really fun time too. But he was direct with kids and I think probably a little harder on me, right? But again, he knows me. I was harder on my daughter and coached her. Yeah, and he knew my goals. So he was like, well, if you want to get to this level, this is what it's going to look like. And I truly never felt like he ever crossed the line. But he was football too. So I was like, oh, you're doing a really good job with girls, right? Right. That's very different. But I think for coaches, it's how am I putting my practice together? It starts with,

what my values are and how I want that to come across. And if we're always focused, and it can be really simple, but if I'm always focused, we have to game plan. We have to talk about the other team and things like that. But then that also means as a player, I'm so concerned what everyone else is doing. And when we get that middle school, high school's a little bit different, but in those younger, that first half of the youth phase, are they having fun? Now, it doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want and run around.

rules or structure, but how can we bring enjoyment and still develop skill? And I think that's part of it is I never... big part of it. Yeah, if you don't love it, dang. Right. It's rough. But also...

Some players love it, you know, and some players just like it. And some players is for their social friends. Yeah. You know, and as a coach, you can't decipher which one that is because at fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh grade is hard because some of them just like it. You might have one or two to four players that love it. This is their identity. But half the team, they just here to get better and process and this be around a friends. And that's their social, you know, being too. So to have that fine,

balance of what they can take, what they can't take. You got to teeter at that because you don't know. You don't know what they can take. You don't know how direct you can be to a kid. You don't know how undirect you need to be with a kid. You don't know.

you know, especially boys, how much ADHD, I mean, they might be everywhere, you know, boys, you know, and you don't that's come from coaching and adjusting to your style. I think every coach dies on their sword too much. You know, you have to adjust to the people that's in front of you to get the best out of them. And also in terms, it helps you be a better coach yourself because you learn how to deal with different types of people. And the biggest way I think Steve Novo,

I touched on it yesterday, like creating the environment to make sure the gym is a positive environment and practice where they enjoy coming to. And you're happy, they're excited to be with that group. But understanding, first of all, you have to have, like you called it a political answer before, but like the relationship and how connected you are to your players allows you to kind of know how much they can take and like know where you're coming from. Like.

Zach, I'll use Zach Ben for an example, because we've sat in here, we've ate dinner together, we've talked, and then yesterday I got on him right away and practiced for a couple of things. And he says nothing, he just asked me what was I doing wrong there. So like building outside relationships, asking him how school was, that's at the center of probably everything we do as coaches, is a relationship. And then knowing how, like to Joe's point, a different kid's going to have to get talked to or called out in a different way. Yeah, absolutely. And that was the hard part for me, because when you build,

building these relationships, as a coach, when they're gone, it's like, damn, that was a relationship like we were talking about, Brittany. Like, ah. Because you don't, I don't want to say this, but as a coach, you do want to know everyone, but you don't want to know everyone. Because it's hard when you give them a piece of you, and then they're not there anymore, and vice versa. So it's like, do I really want to, I don't know, it's like a.

a step you take like do I want to cross this to really make that a family member or do I want to stay in this coaching lane and just make them a part of the team?

And most of the time when you do it the right way, they become like an extension of your family. Yeah, that's why we cry the whole month of July. And it becomes harder and harder in a good way to coach kids that you really care about. So now you can be more direct. Now you can have more talks. Now you can get into the interpersonal relationships that they may have with boyfriends or girlfriends. And how is that life going? And how is your mom or if they're divorced and you know how you can start talking about that? Because.

If a kid cares that, if they know you care about that stuff, when that light comes on, they're gonna run through a brick wall for you. Most of the time, the best coaches I've played for. So when I had kids that I can see something wrong with them.

Right. We had Tim Frank's on, which was a great podcast. That's our number one stream podcast. And he talked about his mental health and the importance of of seeing someone to talk about his problems. He got admitted to Rogers twice, you know, and he talked about that to self harm. He talked about that on air, you know, which is incredible, which is incredible. Also about the relationship you guys have that correct. Comfortable enough to come into this space. That's correct. This is also private, but public. Right.

Right. Right. And for him to do that and and he was a lightning rod for a lot of our players. It's like, man, I'm going through something to coach like, you know, come and when you have a player like that, it becomes more like that's your family member. But also he's helping other people open up about different problems that they may have. And when you have that as a coach, it's like that those are the relationships you want to build with every group going after that is that's the family member.

type of process we want to get to. So come July and August, the one tier that we have for one group should be every group, because that's how much we pour into them and they pour into us. But we do notice when something's wrong, you know, and as a coach, what should we do in those settings? Like, you know, sometimes it's from the parents, you know, and we can't run to them with the problem because it's written on the kids place. Like, I don't, I don't want them to know.

You know, and how can we help those athletes who we know are dealing with adversity, but we know we can't give it to their caretaker with that? That's also a softball question. Thank you. Joshe, I said this was not going to be easy. No, it's not easy. No. You know, in.

Part of me kind of goes, well, what's the extent of what's happening at home? What's going on? Again, depending on, with other relationships that I miss most about college are the parents, because I love the parents in my group. So what kind of relationships do you have with the parents? And even if you think you have a good one, sometimes it's like, oh, they do not like me, actually, because they went off on Twitter, X, whatever, and said some really lovely things about me. So in some ways, I think it depends, but I think kind of one.

And I have done this in my own private practice too is.

I sit with everybody as like a consult to start and then the child and I are one on one in this space and I will I kind of will say, do you feel comfortable talking to like your parent about that if something's going out the parent? So if they're comfortable talking to their parents, then I'll work with them on, OK, here's how we could approach it. You know, how do you feel about that? And I do think it needs to be collaborative, right? If they're going to especially if they're going to have to take the initiative. But it's scary because how many opportunities do younger kids have to do that now if they don't want to talk to their parents?

Pardon me, it's like gosh, that's really tough. And again, what's the specific situation look like? But it's going, okay, I think you still encourage, and again, we're not talking extreme situations at home, and that's a whole kind of another, do we need to get other people involved, right? But first, talking in general, my parents put a lot of pressure on me. They're kind of acting crazy at the game, and it stresses me out. I always go, do you want me?

to say something. And then again, if they're saying no, then it's like, OK, so.

If you're going to choose not to talk to your parents and you choose that you don't want me to. And again, that's fine. Right. I understand that. But then we have to come up with a plan to help you. Right. And that could just be, you know, if it's struggling in the game, maybe they're yelling a lot. OK, is there something that you and that athlete? It's just a nod. It's just saying a phrase and doesn't have to be anything that's like super specific. So just something simple and against super. It's very general, because obviously everything.

situation is different. You know, if it's pressure at home and my rules always are like the, again, barring something that we need to like level up a little bit. House rules and coach rules supersede me. So I'm going, I don't want you to ever be disrespectful to your parents. And so I want you to, you know, we gotta be an adult in some of these situations. And for some of them it's like, okay, maybe what you just need to do is take some time to, I usually start with like two minutes and it's two minutes of mindfulness or two minutes of breathing.

and again, just kind of whatever feels good for them. But I want it.

And not and again, never an accusatory way. If you're going to choose not to talk to your parents, if you choose to have me not to, it's OK. But then here are options. I think the big the biggest thing that in my life, in my practice, ask anybody that I've ever met. We're not just going to do this. This dance like it's not helpful. And then it tends to be that's where we go to. Well, it's that fall. It's your fault. It's this fall. And that's also really not healthy when we're looking at again, like you said, it's not just basketball. How are we handling our work environment? Yeah, bosses and our relationships.

relationships. So how can I help you get some tools? If it's really bad, you can always just send them to me. But I think those are some things like sometimes just being able to have someone to chat with. Yeah. So like what's one of the tools that you give? So for instance, me, I dealt with adversity with losing parents at an early age, both my parents before I was 25 to 30. You know, both my parents passed away. So I dealt with a lot of that. And one of the coping things that I do is I still

play two or three days a week and I do hot yoga. And that sweating and that camaraderie of still getting up and down the court, that helps me cope with the rest of my day. So what are the couple things that you try to tell your athletes to do with some of your practices that you do with your athletes? Sure. I'll be honest. I stay with them my scope. I always ask them, how's your sleep? And what are we putting in our bodies? That is not.

like the area where I live, but I think it's an important conversation to have. And you can't talk about the homework and all this, like, well, what's your sleep looking like? Because that is so important. And not just physically, not just for growing bodies, but injured bodies, for worn down bodies. It helps reset our brain too. So I do think that's, again, something I will talk with. I just actually had a session last night, Amy. There's been a lot of it talking about, hey, what's your sleep look like, what we can do. But one of the things that I really believe is a foundational skill to help

help with all those other things is mindfulness. And the reason being is we have so many thoughts that run through our head that we have zero control over. And it's frustrating because like this, it's my brain. I own this, don't I? And it's like, well, like we have some things we can control, but stuff's going to pop in and it's OK. So mindfulness helps us one kind of get in that present moment. I can acknowledge maybe that negative thing or that thing that's distracting, right? Because I want to be negative. But if it takes takes away my focus, I acknowledge it, kind of move on. And eventually it will work towards.

you know, lots of kind of self -talk type things. I have athletes that really enjoy imagery and journaling. But I think that mindfulness is a really good place to start because...

we are not going to be judgmental. We're constantly comparing ourselves. And we're on our, I mean, most kids are on their phone. I prefer a computer because I'm old, but everybody's on their phone. I'm comparing myself to maybe it's a teammate. Maybe it's somebody that is like, I'm in like a recruiting competition with, or maybe I'm comparing myself to Caitlin Clark. That's, might be a reach, but okay. So let's just kind of stop all the external noise that's coming in. Again, I think that's really powerful. And that helps us when we're talking about imagery. When I'm on the free throw line,

and the fans are going crazy and you've got this coach yelling and oh gosh there's mom again yelling.

Okay, this is where I am, I can block that out and I can focus. And I think it's just, I think we don't pause enough in general in life. And pausing, again, doesn't mean I grab my phone or I go sit down and binge Netflix. It's intentional time. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, see, that's a question, right? So as a college athlete, you know the schedule, right? You're up early, lifting weights, practice, game days, whatever. How can athletes find time to take a little self -reflection, take a little time, you know,

What is your advice for that?

In my general sense of going if that's important to you and I think that's something we have to like I think self care gets tossed around a lot in a kind of casual way, but it is like intentionally taking that time. Yeah, I was like if that's important to you, you're going to make time so correct. There's an AD that we have our coaches meeting and he went you can be a good student, a good athlete, a good friend. He goes you can be really good at two of those. You can't be really good at all three and I think that's hard and I go specifically as a college.

student athlete. There's a lot going on. One, it's a huge transition just from being a senior in high school to now I'm on my own and I can like do what I want, right? There's this whole new sense of freedom and all the people around me get to do whatever they want and go out but I'm here as an athlete.

Like you really do have a job to do. Correct. So that means I have to operate differently. So I think that's really challenging. So it's like maybe you don't go out. Doesn't mean you can't have a social life. I'm not saying that, but.

if, and again, I think our conversation around mental health, it's becoming more common. And we're understanding that mental health doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It just means we gotta work on some things, and it's okay. And ultimately, working on it is gonna help us better than just ignoring it. And again, still struggling with getting people to be open about that. But. Yeah, because there's those athletes, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm just gonna keep running it. Yeah, yeah. And all of a sudden, boom, it hits them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I tell people all the time, when they're

and you're like, I don't have time for this, I don't have time for that. I'm like, pull up your phone right now, and I want to know how much time you spend on every app. Right, right. And self -care doesn't have to be an hour, it doesn't have to be 30 minutes. For most, I'm like, hey, let's spend two minutes. Or I got this from a conference, and I wish I could remember her name, because I can't take credit for it. But she goes, she'll challenge her athletes from class one to class two, don't look at your phone. And it's kind of like, so I'm just walking? Yes, you're just walking. But.

Even that can be really powerful because again, we're inundated with so much that just to put that phone away and it's okay. We're not missing anything in that, you know, probably two minute walk. It can be little things like that. Someone's talking about taking time for yourself. I think I really want that message to get across that it doesn't have to be this huge. It can be, but it doesn't have to be this huge big thing. Just like working out. You don't need to go to the gym for two hours a day. Let's just get some movement in. Even traveling to your games, you know, that little time on the bus or yeah.

schools, the plane or whatever, take that time, reflect. Get a journal, put your headphones on, there's tons of different, I mean podcasts that you can listen to that talk about things, find a meditation, you know, episode or...

I do like the apps, I don't think they're a substitute for like mental health care or even kind of working on those mental skills. I want to be really clear on that. But those can be great. And I think too that we're in a space where...

teammates are going to be respectful of, hey, I just need my time. You don't have to tell them necessarily what you're doing, right? I've got their headphones in. So they're going to kind of give you that space. And I think that's, again, there's so much, so much out there that you can access. That's again, it's low hanging fruit, right? Pull up your phone, pull up an app, boom. Yeah. And I think so too. I mean, since COVID hit, there's the message around mental health has been so much more uplifting than it was.

before it and you just see more and more athletes, more and more professional celebrities talking about it. So it opens up more doors for some of our kids to talk about it. When we had, we go back to Tim Franks, when we had him on, there's so many emails and parents and messages about their fourth or fifth graders. Like, if he's talking about it, you know.

it's easier for my fourth and fifth grader to say something to me about it. So it's encouraging to see where it's going. But I do think that little mental break every day is important. From two to three, usually every day, I don't do anything. I don't look at my phone. I put it on do not disturb. I stay away from it because I know you need a reset. Whether it's five minutes, 10 minutes.

Whatever, if you have a mental reset, it can last you the rest of the day, especially as we get older. You know, sometimes you're by seven o 'clock. If you're up all day by nine o 'clock, I'm ready to get in the bed. So by by seven o 'clock, I'm not trying to deal with a fourth grader who's being crazy at practice. So you got to reset your whole mindset so you don't come in, you know, a certain way as well as coaches. You got to be prepared where the kids should never know if you're high or low or what kind of mood you're in.

or your dog died today, they should never know how you feel. You should be the same person every day, which is hard to do if you're a person that doesn't take time. Whether it's a coach or player, a parent, I think everyone needs a personal reset because it's going to spew on somebody if you don't. And you usually regret it when you do it. It's one of those days, man. You mentioned earlier,

a little bit of nutrition because everybody's chemically balanced a certain way, how much nutrition is an effect to your mental health? I there's a lot out there that says it has a huge, huge impact.

I don't want to get too deep in the weeds, but I think part of it is too we're just not very aware of how things affect us all the time too. And now I used to be the person that I get, I don't know if Orvs is still around, the pizza. I used to have an Orvs frozen pizza before every home game. Horrible decision. Before the game. Oh yeah, before the game. I'm wild, I'm wild Joe. Granted I had like a few hours. I think what the hell, I'm idiot.

And so it's like when you're young, you also get away with it. So you're thinking, oh, if I can perform, because we think performance, it's just like this physical thing. We don't think, oh, after I eat that, I just feel like I can't focus. And know the, especially when we were in college, our coaches were like, don't drink Red Bull, don't do this, because they were nervous about it. It's like popping on a drug test. I'm like, OK. But you can't deny that when we're putting some of these things into our body, that.

like my focus might be a little off. It might be hard for me to really sit here and concentrate and know what's going on and, oh gosh, what's happening? And I think we already have a little bit of a shortened attention span now anyways. But also in how we're, like literally, like your food is your fuel. So it's gonna affect how you mentally perform as well as you physically perform. Do I think you have to be super strict in counting macros? No, everything is different. But can we be aware about eating more like, I'm very much,

like can we eat some minimal processed foods, more whole foods as we can and there's a lot of different ways you can do that but you're huge again mentally developing, physically developing so let's put really good you know fuel and building blocks really into our body. So you played overseas? Talk a little bit about that and the pressures of playing overseas after college. Joel played overseas, Travis talked about his overseas and you know we've got the guys perspective we kind of want to hear we got a lot of girls

in their program and stuff they'd like to hear about your perspective on that. Sure. So I was getting close to graduating. I don't want a real job. I really want to play overseas. Like, who do I know? So my coaches were helping me, and I got ahold of an agent. And I remember hearing stories. I had a teammate that had a wonderful experience. But then I had someone else that was just, it was horror stories of not getting paid and really bad conditions and things like that. And it was like, and again, I'm stubborn. So I'm like, oh, heck yeah, I'm still going to do it. So.

I got in contact with an agent from Germany and I found out like some back some backstory to some of this so they weren't really super prepared for me and they're gonna try to shove me in like a one like one room flat with like two other girls. So in some ways I was really fortunate because I lived with a woman and her two sons and she played on the second team so kind of like the JV team if you will and I had my own room.

space, you had a lovely yard and...

I had a wonderful time. They took care of me. The dad of the woman I lived with worked at the US embassy. So I got to go on these. I mean, he took me on. I'm a history nerd. So he took me on a tour of the Heidelberg Castle. And we talked all about this. So I was very fortunate. But in terms of the pressure, I'll be honest. I was like, OK, I'm doing well. I, again, had taken German even through college. So I had to meet that requirement. So I had a basic understanding. And then, of course, I realized I was taught the highbrow Deutsch and not apparently the German.

common German. So I was like, oh, they're like, no, don't pronounce it like this. You'll sound too fancy. I was like, guys, I'm just trying to get through the day. But the biggest shock for me was that I had 16 -year -olds on my team. So I wasn't going and playing with even 18 and up. I had some younger girls on the team. So that was more a shock to me than anything else. And then the other piece was I was playing well. I was doing well. And then,

the coach was thinking about releasing me at the break. And I was like, OK. And I talked to my agent about it. It was funny because in the meeting with the coach and, for lack of a better word, like a director.

You could tell he didn't agree with it. He was mad the whole time. And I'm like, first of all, y 'all need to be on the same page. You can disagree behind the scenes, but this is very confusing to me. Even my agent, she's like, don't even worry about it. She goes, everything's good. She's like, we'll find a place for you. So I do appreciate that. I had her support, because I had no one over there. And I don't talk to my parents a ton or whatever.

I fortunately, she kept me on. But I was like, yeah. That's kind of how I felt. There's that little cockiness coming back in. But I had a really great time. For me, they took care of everything. So I worked out. I played basketball. I traveled. And I got to go out in Germany and hang out and see some really cool stuff. So I just think I was so blessed. And again, it was kind of like just the game sort of giving back in a really cool way because I missed on some opportunities in high school.

Yeah, it was cool. I played against some national team players and even a few years ago I ran into somebody that we actually played against each other. I was like, oh you played during this year? I was like, oh wow, like you were there when I was there. Did you get a chance to see other countries while you were there? I didn't get a chance to travel much just because like with my visa they had to send me home for a certain time so I didn't get any downtime. Right. I had a little bit at the end but yeah I didn't get a ton of downtime.

So I went to some of the bigger cities in Germany. So yeah, that was fun. I loved it. If you can do it, try it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It helps shape who you are. Just being in another country where you don't know people and having to learn how to get out of your comfort zone and speak different languages and different cultures, different food, different personalities, learning what body language means because you may not understand someone. Or I had a...

person trying to translate for us. It's like I'm in Japan and the translator is talking, but I'm looking at the coach. I'm looking at his body language like this coach not happy. Oh, he's, he's not saying much. I was like, no, he's not right today. No, like let us know the truth here. So just like understanding some of the stuff that you learn in high school and college. When you're on your own, now you got 20 hours out of the day. Just kind of figure out what you want to do. You know, and I think that.

of time where...

you really learn a lot about yourself because college is a big bubble. Yes. It's ABCD sleep. You know, overseas is like it's 20 hours. You're like, oh boy. And then you want different time zones. ABCD sleep drink. Oh, yeah. That's part of D. D is like the beer and then everything. Then go to sleep. But, you know, overseas, it's like you got 20 hours and you're on different time zones. You know, you're trying to stay up.

up at my point, it was the beginning of Skype. So I'm like trying to Skype people, but it's the different times. And it was just like, man, this is, and you're trying to get to the webcam because you didn't have it on your computer at the time. It was webcam. So it was different times, you know, to be over there, but it was so fun to learn about yourself. Because when you came back, you had a totally different perspective of life, of what you need or what you don't need.

and what the Europeans do as opposed to what we do.

Relationships change and you know people, you know, it's just I learned so much of playing that and we use it every day when we're talking to our kids about different things that they're doing and how to cope with the everyday life and pressures of what a sport can do for you. But it's so much fun at the end of the tunnel if you get that chance. And I know you said you never, you know, want to do coaching again and stuff. But honestly, being involved with my daughter playing high school basketball, coaching girls, I think your position,

though on a coaching staff would help a lot of a lot of players just to have that type of position on a coaching staff not necessarily being involved with the accidentals but being on that bench when a girl comes off the or a guy comes off that bench you know and their head is down just to have that person getting more common and at the professional sports yes you'll see probably think high school is important I agree sure totally it's probably more important at the youth level than professionally yeah to actually have involved I mean it's equally important but those guys

have pretty big checks where they could go see someone. I think part of that too, we'll probably sprinkle down to college and high levels, for your, like what is the breakthrough moment for you and your job? Like you're like, oh I got her, I got her to.

I got this person to figure it out. She figured it out. Do you feel that in the meeting sometimes or is it like if I want to watch this person perform that they get it or you just don't like is there an end game kind of that you can see? Oh, I got them. They understand it now or is it just the process day after day doing it? Like what is that breakthrough moment like? I don't know if it's I wouldn't say it's the same every time. And typically,

it's not from me watching them. Sometimes it's in a meeting, but it's usually like, hey, I did this and that worked. And whatever that is that we're working on. And I'll tell people, I use like a 10 minute, let's say it's a 10 minute quarter, I can't keep track of all these different. But if I have 10 negative thoughts in 10 minutes, so a negative thought a minute, we're not gonna go from 10 to zero. Possibly ever.

Like I will tell you, I'm a very confident person. Every now and then I'm like, oh man, you really messed that up, right? So like those are gonna happen. I think that's part of it is setting the expectation. But then when it's like, I had nine out of 10.

8 out of 10, maybe it's back to 10 out of 10. So when they kind of go, hey, I did it, it worked. Or sometimes like, you know what? I didn't have to think about it. This just happens. And again, it depends on what that skill is that we're working on, what the issue is that they're going through. But it's when to me, it's when they report it. When they tell me, hey, this happened. So sometimes there are a couple that I'm going, can we please celebrate this win? They think I'm not. And I'm like, trust me, if you met any of my friends, I'm not this, you know, strawberry shortcake all bubbles and sprinkles girl. But let's celebrate that.

you were able to work through it on your own. Because I think that's really important. Like when you mentioned the thing on the bench, I've had people say to me, hey, I'd love for you to come sit on the bench. And one, I'm very big on consistency. If I'm not doing it from day one, you don't bring me in to do that. But also,

I'm sure you've all seen it, the kids are always looking at mom and dad, or always looking at their coach. Like, OK, was that OK? That OK? That OK? So my goal is one, for you not to need me. So I have a horrible business plan already. But two, I want you to need me. But in that game, I want you to feel confident. And part of that is feeling the confidence in the 100%. To be able to, maybe you do have to go to the end of the bench. And maybe you do have to take 30 seconds or a minute, and just kind of collect yourself.

But I think that's when they can kind of do that on their own is huge because I don't want anyone to think they need me. I'm here to I consider myself a coach. Like the title I have to use consultant because that's what the trademark is for my organization. But I really consider myself more of a coach. That's why I approach my practice to we don't just have a session and then we're done. Like I'm following up with you to see how things are going. And that's why it's hard for us as directors is when we go to these games.

You never win because I never try to make eye contact with the players as they play because it's just a weird dynamic because sometimes you agree with the coaches, sometimes you don't, sometimes you're telling them to suck back in, get back in there. So I try my best not to even, I just be bland at the games. But when you go to these regional sectionals and.

One side you have four or five players that win the other side you got four or five players that lose, you know, so you're probably going to consult the people that lose, you know, first, you know, just to make sure that, you know, they're okay. And that's part of the job is being a coach is figuring that out. But I do think that in the area that we live in, in the North Shore area, they should have on a youth level because they all got money.

and at the youth level to have a mental health consultant. And you can, it don't have to be four of you. It can be for the whole North shore. This is.

This is our person for the whole North Shore. It's funny you say that because I'm like, that's my dream. Like get me in at the conference level. Correct. Correct. And I can kind of be that person. You had to start by talking with us right now. Yeah. All right, boys. Let's make this happen. Because I think that's so important. I mean, even for my kids that are fourth graders and they deal with different things that people say in the crowd and different things like that. They don't know. Their little brains are like, wait, what? They don't like me. You know, they don't know. So to have someone to kind of talk to,

to them and it doesn't have to always be a parent is something you want for your kids. You know, and from the youth programs to the conferences, you know, for high school, they should have a consultant that they go through and say, hey, can you come, you know, for Homestead for two weeks to talk to our guys program, our girls program. Well, we do not interrupt, but we do boot camps. We do all these other camps. Why not have a mental camp? Correct. And sir, I mean, yeah.

It's so true. And I think that's the message that we need to have, you know, and that's something we've done with you in the past and just say, this is what we're doing, you know, and we put it on everyone's team snap and everyone knows the dates. This is the time we're doing it. I just think it's important to have that outlet. So when someone confidentially come to you and say, I'm struggling and I don't I need some help. Well, you remember we talked to so and so it's like, oh, yeah, let me let me reach out to her, you know.

And that's a huge thing for me because you want people you trust and believe in and vice versa, and they at least have some rapport. But the main thing that I love about what you do is you play the game and you understand the game. And you've been through adversity in the game on many occasions as a coach, as a player.

So that relatability goes a long way to open up, especially young men and women to about like, oh, you play, you know what I'm talking about. And I think that's pretty cool to have. That's what makes Joel kind of special being the director. He has, you know, like with him, you know, Joel can say, I grew up in Chicago. I went through this. I went through this injury. I was by myself here, you know, just having that related relatability, you know, is huge. Yeah.

That's how to get by and right away. I'm like I played professional basketball like that gets the boys really interested. The girls are like cool. But other times like whatever you see a specific sport more so that you deal with or is it kind of all over the basketball hands down and the part that just says that's where all my contacts are. That's all the people I know in terms of like groups. I mean I've worked with a lot because I have worked with high schools and things like that. A lot of soccer is probably my other bigger thing. There's a long.

seasons. Football is September, November, or whatever. Have you watched the second season of Full Swing? No, not yet. There's a mental coach there. It's a Wyndham Clark. And she's by side through one of the tournaments on a Sunday when he breaks through. Golfing mental coaches have to be. That'd be a fun job. It's a lot of ups and downs. When I talk with golfers, I'm like, OK. But getting back to basketball, basketball season, November.

March November to November and now in the pressures with it yeah and that's why I love you guys so much and this was when I think I reached out to you initially and I

definitely have AU programs that I'm like, I don't think our values align. And for you, the biggest thing on the website was we know we have athletes that are multi -sport athletes. Now, how they choose to do that, and I'm not saying that you can't be more dedicated to that. Trust me, I've been there, I get that. But I think that's so important because one, again, enjoy your sport, play different sports, do those things. And sometimes that message gets lost. So I really appreciate any kind of higher level club team. I appreciate when they say that because,

That's not often the message that happens. And that in itself can just add a lot of pressure. Now, and you know this side better than me, but if you're like, OK, if we want to get to this level.

as you get older, you do have to make some sacrifices. I know my high school ladies do not like to hear. Right. But it's kind of just the way it's going, whether good or bad. But you got to have that. I mean, we we got our girls, you know, our top team. We probably have five girls that are multi sport in track right now. Yeah. You know, only thing we ask for them is to come to some practices and and walk through some plays. You know, we don't want to put too much on their bodies and minds because it can be taxing, you know. And as athletes, you got to learn how to do it.

deal with being really good at something and then being average at something and not very good at something. I mean, the more you know that balance, the better you're going to be as a person. Oh, absolutely. Because we're not going to all be stars in every position we're in. High school, it might be a star, then it starts to slowly go the other way. You know, college, you're one of the guys, and then it might go back as a professional. But I just think that's a cool thing to have.

you know, relate ability to relate to your players. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a big thing of what you do. Well, we're getting really good at this stuff because this is one of our longer ones again, too. But honestly, more probably the most important one, in my opinion. Again, you know, hopefully I gave you good stuff. Well, the information you gave is so important. Yeah. So tell us how can we reach you? How can people reach out to you and different things like that?

Sure. So Herrick Performance Consulting is my business. So HerrickPerformance .com is the website. I'm not great at social media, but you can DM me at HerrickPerformance. I'm working on it. I'm old people. I'm old. I just do Instagram, no TikTok. And then email is doctor .period.

B as in Brittany and then Herrick, H -E -R -R -I -C -K at gmail .com. It feels weird giving out my phone number, so I'm gonna leave. You think I'm gonna leave that off? I'm gonna leave that off. But yeah, just reach out to me. Typically what happens if it's a parent reaching out to me, we're gonna have just a brief phone call just to kind of see what's going on, to see if it's appropriate, if I work with your child or not, and then.

The next step would be we have a consult about 30 minutes, mostly do a vibe check. Do you want me to work with your trial or not? And then two, so everyone's on the same page. And then from there we move forward, sessions are one on one.

Or heck, if you've got teams, guys. And I know obviously we're here with Chapman, but even I do group work as well. And let's be honest, that tends to be more cost effective. We're going to be direct and honest here. It's cheaper to do the group stuff. So feel free to contact me on that as well. What is considered a group? Just a team, a group of siblings? I mean, well, if it's like siblings or one or two. I've done those smaller groups, so five or more. But.

And really what I do is we're going to make sure it works for you. So like, you know, Joe and I, when we've done this, we've sat down, this is what's going on. These are some ideas we can do. If it's a little bit smaller group, I still do that. It just, that process might look a little different. But it's so cool that when we did our group work, it was one or two people out of the group of, let's say 10 or 15.

It's like, oh, can I get her number? You know, that's the fun part for all of us. You get one athlete. Yeah. And when you're on your way home and you get an email, we've done our job to get back. Right. That's the whole point of why we're kind of doing this podcast is to get back to the athletes that are part of part of your CBA. Yeah. And, you know, there's just so much going on in this world for every kid that we we help. There's a kid that's, you know, dying, you know, from this. So, you know, doing this kind of podcast.

I think a good

Thank you very much. Thank you guys. Thank you.