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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
TeamCaptain (00:44)
I'm chilling, I'm chilling. nah, not today. I was just watching the Daredevil show, because I haven't personally been able to play him yet.
CaptainCoach (00:45)
playing a games yet today.
Coach Mills (00:55)
⁓
Are you gonna master him? I feel like you go on these like long kicks on like every hero. Blade, Mr. Fantastic, then Blade, then Angela.
TeamCaptain (00:57)
Yeah, why not?
No, like...
I usually do it if the community as a whole decides the hero is not good but Daredevil kinda looks good numbers wise, just like off the top so I don't know if people are gonna say he's bad but he looks fun so I'll probably learn him
Coach Mills (01:12)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (01:12)
Ahhhh
That was actually one of the number one things I wanted to ask you is why Wolf? Was it just because everybody thought he sucked back in December or whatever it was?
TeamCaptain (01:31)
Yeah, I usually just play the characters that aren't good. Like, back in Overwatch, before I started playing Rivals, I would just like one-trick the character that was considered bad in the meta, like 24-7. So like Torbjorn was really, really bad, so I was playing Torbjorn on repeat. But like, this game, people like, Wolverine sucks, Wolverine sucks, I'm like, how can he suck if you have the ability to like just fully displace someone and like bring them into your team and then the ult can just like fully team wipe without fail?
CaptainCoach (02:00)
You
TeamCaptain (02:00)
And then
obviously people didn't know about the percentage damage as well, which was a big thing.
CaptainCoach (02:04)
Yeah, they had the tooltips
like on their website so nobody ever like really read them. So how do you feel that like you've then like impacted the meta single-handedly? Cause that's kind of like hard to do for a game this big. ⁓ Like you've definitely probably been at least partially responsible for some of the nerfs to Wolverine. Angela just got buff, which is a little scary cause I already think she's pretty good. Curious to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (02:08)
Nah, they don't.
It's fine, yeah. I think
Angela was in a perfectly fine state. I think she just needed quality of life fixes. for example, if you use the spear charge thing that you grab people with, it's not based on how far you go for the fuel meter, it's based on how long you hold it down. So if you just press the button and you just don't go anywhere, the fuel will go down halfway. So I think a good quality of life change would be...
make it based on distance traveled rather than how long you press the button. But like, they don't have to like change the numbers for a lot of characters, I think they're perfectly fine. You just need to like make them feel better to play. Which I think is something that they could take forward.
Coach Mills (03:09)
Kind like what they
did with Blade this patch, right? Because I think he's going to feel a lot better.
TeamCaptain (03:12)
Yeah that's what they did exactly.
Yeah they just basically made his dashes feel less bad to use because they do feel kind of a bit buggy and inconsistent at times. So I think they should definitely be doing that going forward. A design philosophy they seem to have taken on was that they'll just give a character bonus health for using abilities but I'm not sure if that's the best thing to go for but we'll have to see I guess.
CaptainCoach (03:38)
Yeah, cause Blade has like that lifesteal, then anti-lifesteal. Someone in my community, I asked my community and I went into your Discord to ask you some questions and ⁓ I didn't get any questions from your Discord. About 15 responses, all just meme troll answers. But one of the questions was, if you could talk on that later, but you think Blade's S tier, I heard. Is that true? That's crazy. Okay, cause nobody thinks that.
TeamCaptain (03:55)
yeah
I think so yeah.
CaptainCoach (04:06)
Like, I feel like not even the top players, right? No. So, yeah, you gotta break that down.
TeamCaptain (04:06)
Yeah.
No they don't, they don't. But like...
Coach Mills (04:11)
But I kind of
wonder. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (04:16)
I think, so, people think Psylocke sucks right now, but I think Psylocke's still really good. I think he's the same with Blade. I think Blade is also really good. I think he's better than Psylocke is currently. People don't understand, like, the macro that he can do with Blade to really, like, bring out his full potential. He has so much, like, team play. He can play front to back. He can play on off angles. He can contest off angles. And I think he has, like, so much in his kit that people haven't truly figured out or mastered that...
They're just like so focused on the fact that you can't just like 1v6 with the sword and win Like yes, he's called Blade, I understand that, haha very funny, uses his gun most of the time But the character, you're not supposed to just go in with your sword and kill everyone The sword is there as like a second option He's not forced to do melee He has the option to do melee, but it doesn't mean he has to, you know? So it's like, people don't understand that they can choose between the two for the situation that requires it
So let's say like Doctor Strange or Magneto is in front of you and you just want to like make them move back a bit. You take the sword out, you know, you put some pressure on them and they can't shield you. So they have to move back, respect the space. It's the same thing for like his gun. Whereas if you're like medium range and your team is mostly just poking right now, you just play with the gun, try and poke some people, maybe find the pick. People need to figure that out and I feel like they haven't, which is like a big thing for Blade.
CaptainCoach (05:37)
Yeah.
like how much do you think of Blade as being like someone who's like game sense oriented rather than just like actual aim? Because I feel like you're right, like.
I see like a lot of good Blades off doing their own thing and finding like hard value and a lot of me thinks like this is a character that can kind of just like fight whoever he wants really. And yeah, like you said, it has like a lot of different uses. Like how much do you think is like, do you think game sense is more important or good mechanics on Blade, I guess.
TeamCaptain (06:08)
It's
80 % game sense, mechanics are like 20 % I'd say. Like most of the characters macro in like managing your cooldowns and like deciding when to use certain things. So like the block for people that don't know, on the startup frames there's actually CC immunity. So if you're like an off angle, right? And let's say a Haluna snowballs you or a Mantis sleeps or a Hela stuns, you can just fully parry it and then you're fine. You don't get stunned, which is like massive. That's huge.
If you can master that then you're basically just negating any CC that could possibly hit you and that applies to ultimates Yeah, like Groot Strange ult, you know, you can just block it People don't understand like there's so much you can do like let's say a Magneto's ulting also You could just dash in front of the Mag ult and block it like you can do that. Like that's fully possible but like people don't want to take the time to learn that because it's just time investment and
CaptainCoach (06:43)
or just like baiting out cool-downs.
TeamCaptain (07:05)
It's not as easy reward as like a character like Phoenix or Torch where you just play the character and you're just like Thanos instantly, you know?
CaptainCoach (07:15)
Yeah, so I guess then as someone who does enjoy playing weaker characters, I feel like I already know the answer to this, but I feel like I gotta ask then when a character gets released, would you rather them be strong and then get toned down or would you rather have them be kind of weak and then they kind of periodically buff them once they realize like, you know, characters get better at them and they say like, okay, win rates not high enough.
TeamCaptain (07:42)
Based on how fast they decide to take action, I would say start weak and then make them strong because I think they do take a little while to fine-tune things when they're too strong. Like, Phoenix has been rampant since her release. it's just been...
Coach Mills (07:58)
yeah.
I mean they didn't even they
didn't even there for at all the 4.0. don't know. We were still blown away by that that they didn't there for they should have got this nerf into 4.0 for sure.
TeamCaptain (08:06)
Yeah.
I've been saying for ages, I've been
saying for ages like if they don't know how to fix the animation cancel you just add the one second cooldown which they did which I'm really happy that they did that but it was such an easy fix no? Because the animation cancel itself is just game breaking she shouldn't be able to beat characters that are preferred at melee range as a long range character to mid range character it doesn't make sense
CaptainCoach (08:32)
Best melee character in the game.
TeamCaptain (08:34)
Yeah, like if you're playing Hulk, which you do, And you were 1v1ing a phoenix, she just forces you out, you can't do anything. You actually can't fight her, yeah. It's impossible. Unless you have your bubble up, then she's just killing you, it's not... It's disgusting.
CaptainCoach (08:40)
Yep, you can't fight her. Yeah, it's not fun.
No, the first time I realized Phoenix was broken, ⁓ it was like a game we were just like stomping. And I was even saying like, this is like a YouTuber, this game's like almost perfect, no deaths. And then I jump in on a Phoenix and then she does the little thing and I'm just like full to dead, full to dead. And I'm like, okay, well there goes the perfect game.
TeamCaptain (09:02)
Beboiled. ⁓
Yeah.
Coach Mills (09:06)
And about the Phoenix, so I think three of the most impactful nerfs in this patch are the Phoenix, Ultron, and Torch changes. Do you think those three are enough? Like, do you think that, like, are we moving away from a Torch, Ultron, Triple Support, Phoenix, Mag combo meta, or are we, is it just gonna still be the thing? Like, what do you think?
TeamCaptain (09:26)
So the way I see it is that Torch is looking to maybe not be a pick or ban, more of do they have a Torch player and does the map favour him kind of ban. I'm really hoping that's the case going forward but we'll have to really see to see like if the higher level Torch players are easy like they can obviously play him and make him work right but it's more about can the lower level Torch players still abuse him and make him work just like what happened with Psylocke.
where you noticed all the Psylocke players, they stopped playing Psylocke and they started playing like Star-Lord and stuff this season. I want to see if that happens with Torch now. I think with Phoenix, lot of the Phoenix players are going to move on to probably Hela a bit more. And ⁓ I don't think she's going to be as scary at close range. And I think that Ultron will still be really prevalent in triple support, but I think the people who have the drone will be easier to kill, which is a good thing.
CaptainCoach (10:24)
You know, I like that they're nerfing Ultron, but it pretty much kills any chance of it existing in like a double support comp, don't you think?
TeamCaptain (10:32)
I agree but if they wanted to make him exist in a double support comp they would have to completely kill his character identity which is a DPS support. So people are all complaining about the healing nerf and they're saying you shouldn't have the damage and buff the healing but then what's the point in the character at that point right? I feel like he's supposed to be a DPS healer.
Coach Mills (10:39)
Yeah, complete rework.
CaptainCoach (10:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, so I-
Yeah, no, well, the reason I asked that is because ⁓ they haven't shown a history of wanting there to be a DPS, like Jeff, for instance, they kind of pushed them more towards that traditional healer role. Why do you think the discrepancy exists between like those two heroes? Like, do you think that's like a design thing? Do you think like NetEase is doing a good job with that? Or do you think it's just kind of like they're just stuck?
Deciding at random or like what do you think is like the reason that they push Jeff more towards like the traditional healer role because remember he had like that backline play style that was really popular and I'm starting to gain a lot of traction and then they push Ultron more towards because I was even saying I'm like well, you know when Ultron first came out enjoy it while it lasts he's eventually gonna be like like Luna with like a alt that saves everybody because that's what they did the Jeff they kind of did it to rocket so what do you think we're like You know, what what do think that is?
TeamCaptain (11:25)
Yeah.
I think when it comes to ⁓ support design philosophy, I'm also very confused with what they want to do. It seems like they just want to give every support a way of making everyone not die. Whereas I think it could be more interesting if they made support alts more based on utility. Like I thought Rocket Alt being an alt that just gives you straight up damage boost was interesting. And I thought that Mantis Alt giving you...
speed boost was interesting but it seems like you just want to make every support alt just like a not die button for a certain period of time with maybe added utility possibly but like Ultron alt is probably the most unique outside of maybe Adam Warlock but even Adam Warlock is now just like a we don't die button but we're bringing you back but the thing is I thought like when they buffed the Adam alt they kind of removed all the nuance from it whereas like
CaptainCoach (12:18)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (12:34)
Yeah, that's my one.
TeamCaptain (12:42)
given the overhealth kind of ruins any sort of counterplay.
Coach Mills (12:45)
Yeah, more
decision making or very little comparatively to what it was before. You don't have to pre-set up your position. That's one of the things, that's one of my big criticisms of rivals compared to Overwatch is like, I think ultimates like Nano and even Kitsune Rush are like a little more interesting than just like everyone doesn't die. Stuff that changes cooldowns, ⁓ know, making it so cooldowns, like imagine just an area where all your team gets faster cooldowns.
TeamCaptain (12:47)
Yes.
I 100 % agree.
Coach Mills (13:11)
or being able to like supercharge a blade and he gets to go in and just like be super, I think those are interesting to me ⁓ comparatively.
CaptainCoach (13:17)
So why
do you think they do that then? Is it just to keep a casual, friendly game? Okay.
TeamCaptain (13:20)
I know why they do that. I know
why they do that. It's because the damage and the time to kill in the game is so high. Like Punisher ult, Starlord ult, know, Spider-Man ult. Most DPS ults that don't just straight up one shot all have extremely fast time to kill and how do you counter that? You need high heals per second in ults. So if you don't have that then you're just straight up dying to the ults. There's nothing you can really do. And unless you have like a cooldown like Loki lamps then the team is just going to get wiped by that ult.
So since they have so many of these ults that just straight up wipe throughout damage, they kind of have to just make all the supports do healing so they can counteract that. Otherwise, the supports that don't are unplayable. I think that's the issue.
CaptainCoach (14:03)
Kind like an arms race and then, you know, the buffing siloed gold again. yeah, that was also it's counterplay.
TeamCaptain (14:07)
which I'm very confused about, I just want to say that. I thought CyWalk was perfect now, she's like actually perfect.
Coach Mills (14:11)
That-
TeamCaptain (14:14)
Yeah, she's in the perfect spot, like this is great.
Coach Mills (14:15)
They couldn't
have her even be slightly not like a top three DPS for longer than half a season. They had a buffer again. They just nerfed her.
TeamCaptain (14:22)
Yeah, I don't know what their issue with having a DPS
or a character just being good, they don't have to be meta defining like Bucky, like why can't they just leave Bucky the way he was, he was perfectly fine, playable but for some reason they added this extra CC for some reason just to like make it so if he does punch you, you're just like, you're caught out, that's you, you're dead, there's no counterplay, you know?
CaptainCoach (14:48)
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting conversation. Like, how much are they balancing around the numbers they have for lower ranks or higher ranks or the competitive scene? Because I think a big problem, I come from League of Legends, I never really played Overwatch too much, but they would balance around different ranks for different characters because they knew sometimes in competitors, a character like Garen, if you know who that is, would never get picked. And I feel like that might be the direction the game is.
TeamCaptain (15:13)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (15:17)
going a little bit because of just how they're starting to be look like really inconsistent with the patches. And I'm just like a little confused as to why.
TeamCaptain (15:25)
It's 100
% what they're doing. They're bouncing for the upper end and the lower end.
Coach Mills (15:27)
The only thing I can think of is they have different teams. I think they have different teams, like different balance teams for different ranks. And then like they present all their balance changes to like a, you know, like here's what we want to do. Here's what we want to do. And then they just like kind of sign off on all of them. like some, like I would imagine like some group that's focused on low elo is suggesting this random Bucky change because Bucky has a 45 % win rate. And then some other group is suggesting this, you know.
TeamCaptain (15:32)
That's possible.
CaptainCoach (15:47)
Right.
Coach Mills (15:51)
Hella change, but it's not the same group. That's just what it feels like. Like a mass group project. There's not really a clear vision or one guy in charge. It doesn't feel like that to me.
TeamCaptain (16:02)
I'm curious
to see if we're all on the same page when it comes to balancing, right? So if you have a win rate, that shouldn't be the end-all and be-all of if a character should be buffed or nerfed. Do we agree?
CaptainCoach (16:14)
Well, I...
Coach Mills (16:14)
Yes, for me anyway.
TeamCaptain (16:15)
because there's nuance
to a win rate statistic, there's a lot of nuance. for example, if someone is picking black widow in your game, what does that usually indicate? It usually indicates I'm going to throw, it's basically that I'm going to throw a character, that is going to impact the win rate just by that alone, you know?
CaptainCoach (16:20)
Yeah, well you can
Coach Mills (16:24)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (16:34)
Or rocket, I don't know how to heal.
TeamCaptain (16:37)
Yeah,
I'm being forced on support and I'm a DPS player so I'm going to do this in spite of all of you right now.
Coach Mills (16:41)
Yeah. ⁓
CaptainCoach (16:43)
Well,
here's another thing too. In a game where you can swap your character at any time, win rates tend to matter a little less because you can just counter pick or not play them when they're countered. So it's not really an accurate indicator in hero shooters like it is in other games, I feel like.
TeamCaptain (16:58)
Exactly.
And you'll notice that a lot of heroes, sorry I had to interrupt, a lot of heroes are characters that every person in the role plays because they're quite simple such as Magneto or Bucky or I want to say Coke or Luna. They're very simplistic in the sense of it's the character pick that everyone falls back on because they're always reliable, they're always going to work, you know, which can impact the win rate.
Coach Mills (17:01)
I also... Yeah. Oh no, no worries.
CaptainCoach (17:12)
Careful now.
Coach Mills (17:17)
Yeah.
Yeah,
like even Bucky, like one of the reasons I've thought, cause I've thought about this a lot cause I play a lot of Bucky. I was wondering why Bucky has such a low win rate. I don't think that the character is particularly difficult to play or give value with. You don't need high mechanical skill. You get a lot of value with your default abilities. think what the reason is because a lot of people run away to Bucky. Something goes wrong in your games. Some threat happens. They're running away to Bucky. They play the rest of the game as Bucky. They lose that game because Bucky can't save you if you're.
playing terribly or they're playing against someone really good and then Bucky has a low win rate and the devs look at that and they're like, I guess we'll buff Bucky now. ⁓ But that's not, it's just people, it's not Bucky mains, it's just people running away from a threat that they can't deal with. Like that's similar to Magneto.
TeamCaptain (18:07)
It's every DPS
player's backup hero. It doesn't matter what they play. They could be a Spider-Man player, they could be a hitscan player, they could be a melee character player. They will always fall back on Bucky. You'll see this. I swear everyone does it. Even tank players do it. If they're forced on DPS, what do they pick? They pick Bucky. It's just a fact. I always see it. If I see a Bucky lord, I'm like, GG, we fucking lose. Because they're probably just like flexing.
CaptainCoach (18:26)
I've never noticed that.
Coach Mills (18:29)
You
CaptainCoach (18:30)
Wait, what do think that is? Is he just like a character that's popular? ⁓
TeamCaptain (18:34)
It's just
cause he's so easy and like he has no downsides, he's just a jack of all trades I wouldn't say master of none but he's a master of some, you know But I think he's just like very forgiving cause of the shields, he gets shields on all of his abilities so even if you're caught out of position you can just like spam everything and just hope you live, you know
Coach Mills (18:55)
Yeah, like Magneto and Bucky positioning is actually not that far away from each other. It's ⁓ a lot closer than you would expect.
TeamCaptain (19:00)
Yeah, I agree.
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (19:03)
So
what then, what do you think this upcoming patch then, they're buffing a lot of the DPS characters, Daredevil's getting released, do you think, like what kind of meta do you think we're gonna see? Do think it's still gonna be Triple Healer or?
TeamCaptain (19:16)
Triple Healer would still be a thing, yes. I don't think it's gonna go away, they didn't address Mantis which was probably the biggest one in Triple Healer but people don't want to have that conversation because in WarRank players eyes Mantis is a terrible support and then Adam Warlock is also very prevalent and I think Ultron is still gonna be really good even though he got nerfed. I think he'll be slightly worse but he's still gonna be there. Like the thing that makes Triple Heal meta, this is what people don't understand so I'm gonna explain it.
in the best way I can, right? This is what makes triple heal meta very, very strong. It's the fact that you replace a DPS for a support, but you don't lose that much damage in place of a lot of utility and healing, which is insane. So you get better ultimates, better cooldowns without the loss of damage. That's what makes it so strong and people don't get that. They really don't.
CaptainCoach (20:13)
Supports are OP, confirmed.
TeamCaptain (20:15)
Yeah, but it's the off supports that are problematic. And the thing that makes them problematic is the fact that they can't be played in 2-2-2. So to make them good, you have to make them be played in 2-1-3, which is... It can be really boring, to say the least, to play.
CaptainCoach (20:35)
And then there's also, you could always, okay, well you don't have to worry about balance of healers if you added a roll cue. I'm personally against roll cue. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that, but yeah.
TeamCaptain (20:45)
I am also against them.
Coach Mills (20:47)
I think, yeah, we need, need, we, don't think any of us want Roku here. Most of us don't. We all, we all got to see what happened with Overwatch with Roku. I think most people wouldn't. I can understand why people would want it, because you just basically forego all of these problems forever. But then, yeah.
TeamCaptain (21:01)
I think roll cue is a good idea
on paper but like the issues it brings along with cue times and you know the biggest one for me which a lot of people don't talk about was the fact that you had three different ranks for each roll and I felt like that took away from ranked a lot for me personally because you would have a top 500 ladder for each roll rather than a top 500 ladder in total which made top 500 just seem less, you know what I'm talking
CaptainCoach (21:28)
It makes your player base weak.
Coach Mills (21:29)
Yeah,
yeah, I love how Rivals is a connected top 500 too across regions. It's one of the best things they've done. Just makes it way more competitive. Extremely fun to try to grind for it. ⁓ Versus Overwatch, yeah, like you said, three different ranks, three different for each, each rank or each each role plus all the regions were split too. So it was just like.
TeamCaptain (21:30)
Yeah
I love that as well, it's so cool.
Yeah.
So it's like top
1500 in your region basically.
Coach Mills (21:54)
Yeah, it's yeah, not even yeah, so it's was whatever. ⁓ Yeah, 100%. Yeah, but okay, so here's my question. How do you make it to where these supports that you call like like the Mantis, the Adams, the Ultrons, how do you make these supports playable in 2-2? Like if you wanted to like make these because basically what you're saying is it's either these supports don't play they either see no play or we see triple support like they're right now there's doesn't
CaptainCoach (22:15)
Or should you?
Coach Mills (22:23)
It's one or the other. So we either have to be okay with triple support or we have to be okay with these characters not getting any play or we need to change them some way fundamentally. Those are like the only three things we could do. So what would you do if you were in charge? Like how would you change it? Would you make it so that these supports are completely different or would you just be like, nah, they don't need to see play?
TeamCaptain (22:34)
as
So me personally, I've thought about like a role passive debuff where if you pick three or more of one role, the role that has been chosen will be debuffed in some way. So let's say triple support is picked, the role is debuffed by 10 % healing globally between all the three players or if three tanks are picked, there was like 50 HP each and then like damage obviously DPS. I think that would be an interesting way of going about it.
that wouldn't fully kill the characters if they were played outside of three of the role but then people brought up the issue of maybe people griefing on purpose by picking up, yeah, people would pick the role to purposely make people weaker and then obviously numbers would feel a bit weird so if three DPS were picked maybe some Spider-Man combo that you learn wouldn't work
CaptainCoach (23:21)
I was, was my next question?
TeamCaptain (23:37)
because you have an extra DPS so then there's like a bunch of issues that come with it so I don't know it is it's not easy it's not an easy job that they have to try and fix this issue don't get me wrong but I think there is ways that you could maybe like play with it and see what happens you know
Coach Mills (23:48)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (23:54)
Yeah, I mean, I don't have an issue with triple support. I have an issue with how strong supports are that you're gonna want three on your team. they just kind of make it to where you don't need three supports. I like your idea, by the way, like a passive blanket nerf to all the healers, like 5 % healing or whatever. I actually think it's a really good idea. But I don't know. I think the reason they keep the support characters strong is to kind of make people play the role too.
Cause that's also like another big problem you gotta worry about. ⁓
TeamCaptain (24:24)
I agree.
Well, I'm gonna say, I sometimes browse the Reddit page for Marvel Rivals to see what people are talking about and what their opinions are on certain patches and whatnot. And the support players on them, on that subreddit, are playing a different game from me, I swear to God. They're all acting like supports are really, really bad and that DPS have been favorited the whole time. And I think it all stems from like...
DPS having more characters in the roster but it also stems from them not wanting to learn how to counterplay I feel like. They'll die to a Spider-Man and they'll be like, well, I couldn't do anything.
CaptainCoach (25:05)
Here's another one.
Coach Mills (25:06)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (25:09)
They never, support players
never swap, I feel like. But also, they never have to swap to other roles because you always need support. So they don't learn other roles. So they don't, I don't feel like they know as much about the game holistically as other players do.
Coach Mills (25:12)
Yeah.
And I don't know I don't necessarily want to make this like a high elo versus low elo thing but the reality of it is like if you're Not in the top 5 % at least like triple support has not been your meta at all If you're not in the top 5 % of players like I most people will comment and say something like I'm Begging to get more than 4 DPS on my team like no one swaps to support and so like people are just like begging and pleading for their first tank or their second support but like
CaptainCoach (25:27)
Ha
Coach Mills (25:52)
Triple support is just not affecting them at all, for most players. Of course, I think there should be care to have things balanced at the high ELOs and in the top 1 % for pro play. I think there's a lot of complaints from people on places like Reddit that are just completely disconnected from what we're doing, utterly disconnected.
CaptainCoach (26:10)
Triple support's pretty
chill for tank players, man. You don't have to worry about anything. Like, I kinda, it's kinda nice, like, cause sometimes it's like, oh shit, like, ugh, just tired, I just worked out, I just don't wanna play the game. It's like, but we do have a triple support comp. All right, I got the, you know, like, it's not that bad.
Coach Mills (26:14)
you
TeamCaptain (26:15)
Yeah.
It's more of a DPS
thing, I think. I think it makes the DPS role kinda non-existent, to be honest. Outside of bricks like Phoenix Torch and What was the last one? Bucky maybe? Psylocke.
Coach Mills (26:39)
I will say I watched you on stream quite a bit run down the triple tank, like the Venom, Angela, Thor. That looked like a really interesting composition. How do you feel about like in the future when there's enough versatile tanks, do you think like having triple tank will be something that's more like a possibility or consistency? As they start to blend the lines between DPS and tanks, like a lot more I think.
TeamCaptain (26:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I do.
I think
that with the way that they're designing each character in every role they don't really like design them just for that role it's kind of like they can be hybrids in the role so like Mr. Fantastic people say is more like a tank than a DPS I think it's the same with the tank role where more tanks could be more like DPS than tanks but I do think triple tank is very prevalent and that is another thing that I think is an issue from
I do scrims and stuff behind the scenes and if you're on an escort or a convoy I think it's called in this game they'll just do a spawn hold so you do 3 tanks, 3 supports and you'll just like mass stall as much time on the cart as possible in their spawn until you die and then you TP back and do the exact same thing again and then just cycle, ults, it's just, it's really boring, it's really really boring and that's why I think the higher level you go up in this game in terms of
Coach Mills (27:38)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (27:50)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (28:00)
level of play the more boring the game gets because people will min max as much as possible to basically stall the time because people will play for objective, they don't care about killing people, it's just like how long can I burn time on the point?
CaptainCoach (28:04)
Yeah.
Okay, I'm gonna...
Yeah, I kind of play that way a lot. I get a lot of just easy wins that way and it's not really that hard a lot of the time. It's not that skillful. Okay, so then what's, I'm gonna steal this question from Coach Mills who's got it written down here. What's your ideal meta then? What do you want the game to look like? I'll give you.
TeamCaptain (28:27)
That's not
ideal
meta, this is like utopia, know, this is like... terrific world, flying cars
Coach Mills (28:41)
Right just only Wolverine and Groots everyone
everyone's playing Groot Force Wolverine Nonsuke
CaptainCoach (28:45)
⁓
TeamCaptain (28:48)
I would say ideal meta would be like having it so you can play a flex DPS so someone that can do melee, starlord stuff like that like squirrel girl and then also having a main DPS who plays hitscans like helo, phoenix, ⁓ know hitscans I guess, punisher what not and then having an off tank and a main tank and then having off support and a main support being played so like Adam Warlock and then like Aluna for example
I think that would be ideal meta but I don't see it happening as it's not going to happen, let's be real. The game has way too much nuance and so many different things can be played depending on the game mode. So if it's Convoy, if it's Control Point, if it's Hybrid, like let's say Control Point for example. I've won so many games on Control Point with Solo Heal for DPS 1 tank. It's really good, it's reliable. But can you play that on Convoy? No.
because what do you need to do? You need to stall time, you know? You can't do that with 4 DPS because they're just going to die. Whereas control point, you want to just be trading picks as much as possible and try to keep control of the point. So I think in terms of ideal meta, there will never be an ideal meta as one thing. It's always going to be different depending on the game mode and the map.
CaptainCoach (29:51)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (30:07)
think it's really interesting though, I don't know how familiar you are with Overwatch, it's very interesting how in Rivals there's so much map-specific and mode-specific comps, but in Overwatch there really wasn't for most of its existence in pro play. was very like, GOATS was the comp, you played it on every map in every situation. When Dive was meta, which was like Winston, D.Va, Genji, Tracer, it was like, you played that no matter the map, almost a part of every single situation you played that. And so like...
I think, because I remember Overwatch players always clamoring for map, they want map metas, map metas, but it was so hard to artificially create a map meta, but it feels like rivals kind of just stumbled into it on accident. I'm not entirely sure how they did it, we did, like we're in a very specific map meta where there's just strategies and things you can do only on certain spots.
TeamCaptain (30:47)
Yeah.
I feel like bands also create a lot of nuance in terms of map metas. So if you're playing on symbiotic surface and you band like Phoenix and Torch and stuff, a really good pick would be Storm Punisher to run out and attack because you can just take the top right and then shred them all and point and just take so much space off them. Whereas Storm Punisher wouldn't be that good if those characters were open because you might as well just play those instead because they're just ten times better. So I think...
Bands also create a lot of diversity in the meta and it's really interesting to see how people band.
Coach Mills (31:33)
How do you feel about banning, like, I know that the pro meta bands are different where it's separate bands, there's bands it protects. How do you feel about the ranked bands and is there a way that you would tweak it to make it better? ⁓ Or do you think it's fine?
TeamCaptain (31:45)
There shouldn't be double bans.
Double bans is stupid. Like the fact that you can both ban the same character. I think personally I had an idea for a fix but I forgot. So if a double ban goes through what do you guys think would be the ideal way of preventing it without like making it unfair. So let's say like one team gets to choose the ban instead. Well that's not fair because then the other team doesn't get to choose the ban also. Cause they just get like a free ban off that right?
Coach Mills (32:13)
⁓
it should just bend whatever you pick second, I think, as a team.
TeamCaptain (32:16)
I think
that as well, like if someone put like a certain percentage vote it takes that instead of the higher percentage vote. I think that would make sense.
Coach Mills (32:24)
Right,
maybe it does it to where like, let's say both teams are, everyone's voting, right? The one, number one gets voted first, if like number one is Torch, that gets banned, and then whatever was the second combined, like from all the votes. So like if the second most was Phoenix, then that gets, so you don't double Torch, it's like Torch Phoenix is the first. I think that's probably reasonable. Probably less frustrating.
TeamCaptain (32:38)
Yeah.
I also don't like the RNG system where it's like some
asshole on your team ⁓
CaptainCoach (32:52)
I lose...
I lose those every time.
Coach Mills (32:53)
Yeah, I was, I was,
I was just doing with captain coach and someone, someone on our team band is Hulk 16 % and he lost. It was crazy.
CaptainCoach (33:00)
I always lose those. I lose those every time. It's...
TeamCaptain (33:03)
I swear
it's a fake statistic, I swear it's just like, it doesn't even matter, it's just random.
CaptainCoach (33:08)
Yeah,
Coach Mills (33:10)
I don't understand why it wouldn't be majority. Why wouldn't it be majority? Why did they do it random?
CaptainCoach (33:11)
well I do think
I
do think that when another, the enemy team bans the same character as you and their percentage is higher, it'll prio that one. And then if you had that, like a higher percentage of that same character too, it'll opt, it'll default to like the lower percentage one. I notice that happens a lot and they don't say anything about it. Like it happens too much for it to be chance. Like call me a conspiracy theorist.
TeamCaptain (33:32)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why it even works.
I have no clue why it works like that.
Yeah, I swear the lore guy usually wins. Without fail. All the time.
CaptainCoach (33:45)
Yeah,
because because a lot of times the enemy teams banning like the same character as you and they did I think they actually have something in place where it's like they try to avoid duplicate bands And that's why it happens, but I don't know how it's coded Yeah, I think you should just everybody should just pick two heroes. They want a banner three I think there should be more bands honestly I would like that, but I don't think I have enough heroes yet Maybe in the future, but everybody just picked two heroes that are banned and it just like adds it up And then if they have same from the other team would just like boop boop boop goes back and forth
TeamCaptain (33:56)
It's very possible.
CaptainCoach (34:13)
Pretty much what you guys are saying, yeah.
Coach Mills (34:16)
This kind of reminds me, I know it's a little bit of a different topic, but where are the maps that they took out of the map pool? Like, are we gonna ever play those again? Or like, what's going on? I don't even really feel like there's enough. There's not even enough maps to take them out of the map pool, like...
TeamCaptain (34:26)
I really don't understand that. Yeah.
Why did they take them out? Did they ever give an official statement?
Coach Mills (34:34)
No, they just want they're like, let's add Matt Pouls. They they basically just announced that they're going to do. No, they haven't.
TeamCaptain (34:38)
They never changed the map pool ever since then. They made
a map pool and then they never addressed it. They're just gone. What happened?
Coach Mills (34:44)
No, they haven't changed it. No, we
still, we still just that work.
CaptainCoach (34:46)
I
don't think it's a terrible idea. Like sometimes, I mean, they did take out the map that most people thought sucked. So maybe they're like working on it.
Coach Mills (34:54)
Which one was
that?
TeamCaptain (34:55)
But I don't
understand that opinion, you're on a good Asgard domination map right? It only has one bad point, the rest of the points are good. I think Celestial Husk is like a way worse map overall. Personally.
CaptainCoach (35:00)
Yeah.
Alright.
I don't think it's
bad, I like crazy maps I actually like the Husk map more now than I used to, like it's growing on me but yeah, I agree, think that map's the worst one
Coach Mills (35:19)
I just want variety, like I'm tired of playing the same map over and over again.
TeamCaptain (35:20)
Bro, as someone that's been...
As someone that's been running Venom very often, I've began to appreciate map geometry way more and the symbiote maps have the worst geometry possible for wall climbing. It's terrible. Yes. Like flat walls please, just anything flat is nice but like see all these like rigid walls where it just randomly throws you off? It's doing my tits in, I don't know. It's so bad.
CaptainCoach (35:27)
yeah.
Coach Mills (35:35)
Hehehehehe
CaptainCoach (35:36)
I need nice smooth edges.
And the Venom
stalling that's possible on the map with the big pillar in the middle, yeah, it's so stupid.
TeamCaptain (35:52)
The sword? Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (35:52)
Oh wait, I always say they,
I'm telling you, I feel like I was watching a pro match and the first fight, no one captured the point for like a minute 30. Like it was an ignite. Like I'm not gonna lie. I feel like that torch needs to be breakable. Like it can't just sit there. I don't know how you feel about that as a Venom player, but I just, literally, it was literally a fight that no one kept first point for a minute 30. They went through two cycles of ultimates. Like I don't understand.
CaptainCoach (36:08)
Bro, I was watching that too.
I felt bad for the casters.
TeamCaptain (36:17)
I think Venom should have been
nerfed. He should have been nerfed. I don't know why they didn't nerf him. What were they thinking? The character is the best tank in the game by far. I don't think there's any tank that even comes close to Venom. I think he's just so strong. Especially in the meta currently. He's the only one that can really contest the backline with triple support consistently. Because the thing with triple support is that they don't have enough damage to force out the Venom consistently with the damage that they have.
Coach Mills (36:20)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (36:20)
Yeah, and he gets a 30 % healing reduce effect.
TeamCaptain (36:45)
so the venom can just like exist in their backline for free and they can't really do much so I think like the fact that venom got buffed for anti-heal on his ult the ult that could already one shot through triple support ults like what were they thinking?
CaptainCoach (36:57)
Yeah,
yeah, and all that already one shots people. Let's give healing reduce just in case the players aren't good enough to figure out how to do the combo.
TeamCaptain (37:03)
Yeah,
so if you can't do it right, maybe your teammates killed him. Yeah, I want
Coach Mills (37:04)
This is my... This
CaptainCoach (37:07)
Exactly.
What? Yeah.
Coach Mills (37:09)
is my theory, I don't really understand it. I didn't really understand it at first. I still kind of don't understand it, why they would buff Venom in this way. But the reason I think they put Antiheal on Venom specifically is because he's a character that is already good in the meta. They did it because they want Anti to be a part of the meta.
Like an active, like, cause like Blade is a character that's had anti-heal, but just because he's had anti, it hasn't been strong enough to make him like a meta staple. But if they take a character that's already meta, and they give him anti-heal, then you're guaranteed to have anti in your meta, your pro matches, in your whatever, right? You're like, you're like forcing anti in the game, in the meta, no matter what. I know that that's like a crazy thing to do, cause you're buffing a character that's already meta, that's already good, but it's like, it like guarantees that that effect is at least relevant in pro play, basically.
TeamCaptain (37:33)
Bruh.
Coach Mills (37:54)
is what it seems like they're doing.
TeamCaptain (37:54)
I don't know how I feel
about giving anti-heal to characters that didn't already have it their kit. I spoke about this when I was reading the Parish Notes but they are really like removing character identity. What I mean by that is like a character that has certain weaknesses instead of buffing their strengths they're instead buffing the weaknesses so like Moon Knight being easy to dive and kill instead of making his lethality more prevalent
they instead gave him bonus health on his right click so he was harder to kill or like Hela when she uses the bird the bird now gives her shields you know why don't you just buff their strengths instead of making them stronger where they're weak I don't understand that
CaptainCoach (38:36)
Yeah, that's a really good point actually. I'm thinking about it now. they, they've given survivability buffs to everybody, I think. Cause it's kind of like what you said earlier, like people can just like insta die to DPS salts. So I guess they kind of want this game to be more around maybe like just all usage rather than neutral, which again, I think it's kind of supports that like they're trying to keep it casual, but.
TeamCaptain (38:59)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (39:04)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't- I agree with you. I don't like it. I don't like it.
Coach Mills (39:06)
It's weird because
I guess the one that's the hardest to apply that logic to would probably be Black Panther. Because that's where everyone gets really upset about him. What do you do if you can't buff his strengths? Okay, let's just say there's a world where people are mad at him. They want him nerfed. They want his strengths nerfed. You gotta give him compensation some way. So it would have to be compensation in a way that is kind of adjacent to his character, but at least it doesn't piss people off.
You know, like, as an example, right?
TeamCaptain (39:34)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (39:34)
They messed up big
with Black Panther. They should have given him the... ⁓
Coach Mills (39:38)
I don't
really think they should listen to people, I'm just saying this.
CaptainCoach (39:40)
I feel like with Black Panther they should have given him that, you know how was like his suit can absorb kinetic energy then reflect it in the movies? They should have given him something like that and then could like knock people away then like combo to them. Like more utility stuff where it's still like part of his active design, right? Like I think they should have gone, like, cause yeah, just giving random shields to everybody makes no sense. I just don't like that at all. And again, it like, it kinda, maybe they're trying to make things more self-sufficient so you don't always, cause the reason Triple Healer I think is like,
TeamCaptain (39:46)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (40:09)
also so good is because, ⁓ yeah, it boils every game down to just who uses their ults better. And that's something that everyone can consistently replicate, reproduce, and that's what the best teams are all looking for, is how to be consistent. If you're talking about pro play and stuff. And it's just like, you're less likely to have someone that's randomly die with triple healer. So that's why it's good. So giving that to everybody, maybe that's like...
them trying to push it away, maybe like, with like a shield, you don't need heels, right? So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, but yeah, no, I'm with you on that. Like Moon Knight used to be diveable and ⁓ BP I feel like still feels exactly the same too. Like I don't think he feels much different. Like.
Coach Mills (40:52)
yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
TeamCaptain (40:56)
Cause it feels
like a lot of the things where you used to be able to punish someone or kill them, like they just have that extra HP that gets them out. Which is, it can be a bit weird for like expected combos to kill and what not. And it also feels like the characters that did have the shields as part of their kit feel less unique because they're just giving it out like Halloween candy, you know? Like they're just giving it to everyone. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (41:19)
Magic feels unkillable.
Coach Mills (41:23)
Yeah, because was only
Thor and Bucky that got it from just using abilities right at the beginning.
CaptainCoach (41:29)
and they added more to Bucky.
TeamCaptain (41:29)
I don't understand giving
it to characters that have range. What's the point? I think the whole point of the whole shields mechanic is to make it so that melee characters can stay melee. Whereas giving it to ranged characters, it's just like giving them more survivability if they get caught out because they're positioning poorly. Like, I don't get it personally. I don't.
CaptainCoach (41:51)
Do you think Nandies is doing a good job, like overall? ⁓ from the start to now?
Coach Mills (41:52)
Bye, group.
TeamCaptain (41:56)
Overall...
Hmm...
CaptainCoach (42:00)
Or maybe like for each patch, like you can maybe say they were doing good initially then, cause this is the first like patch where I'm kind of just scratching my head. I'm not really sure where it is, but before I'm like, okay, I see what they're doing. I may not agree with everything, but I see what they're doing.
TeamCaptain (42:01)
I wanna see...
I think they've always made very questionable choices but overall not terrible but I think I don't really understand their direction the more time goes on as if like what do they want to do here? Do they want to make a casual game or do they want to make a eSports kind of game you know? I don't understand what their preference is.
CaptainCoach (42:45)
I feel the exact same way. Like every patch I see, I'm like, okay, this is what they're doing. And then they do something opposite to it. I'm like, okay, now I'm back to square one. Like I don't know what their goal is with like how they're balancing the game.
Coach Mills (42:56)
But yeah, one of the things we wanted to talk about a little bit, team captain, is how'd you get it even started on streaming?
TeamCaptain (43:03)
So I got started on streaming after, well actually I was always streaming but I never took it seriously, I was streaming Overwatch every now and again if I was bored and I just wanted friends to come and talk while I was playing but I didn't really stream consistently or seriously until after my YouTube video, the first one that I made actually did well and then through that
I started streaming consistently. when the game came out, I was streaming on or playing on a 3060 and a Ryzen 5 3600, which couldn't handle the game well at the time. And I was barely getting 60 FPS without anything else running in the background. So I couldn't really stream and play competitively. So it wasn't until after all that
thing happened on YouTube and the YouTube video blown up was when I got into streaming and then I decided to invest into a better computer and then start doing it and ⁓ I did have a couple people who convinced me to do it so I was, do know the streamer Moxie? So I got to know him in Overwatch and then we were friendly and he was in the background telling me to make a video and stuff when I hit rank 1
Coach Mills (44:20)
Yeah, yeah,
CaptainCoach (44:20)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (44:29)
in the game so he was like partially the reason why the video even got made so that is a big reason why I got into streaming also and he actually helped me out a lot with it and getting into streaming was kind of weird at first whereas like it was just kind of all the blowback off the video and all people coming in from that
Coach Mills (44:34)
Let's go.
TeamCaptain (44:55)
and then the video was slowly doing better and better. It wasn't a video that I put out and it just blew up instantly. It kinda happened over the course of a month where it grew and grew and grew. So it wasn't big at first, it was kinda small and then it became something more.
Coach Mills (45:06)
Okay.
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (45:14)
A lot of that I think is probably people just becoming attracted to the game and you had that content already there so people were just looking for it sort of thing. Cause I remember you were one of the first people I had heard about cause I actually got into the game late and I remember seeing one of your videos. I can't remember what it was like one of those streamer reacts or you you had something like that, right? It was like streamers reacted to the rank one wolf. Yeah, I probably saw that one.
TeamCaptain (45:22)
Yeah.
The first video was a streamer's react. Yeah. Yeah, that was it.
CaptainCoach (45:38)
And I'm like, dude,
TeamCaptain (45:38)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (45:38)
this guy's insane. Because I didn't know Wolf was even a bad character. I knew nothing about the game. I just saw a clip of Spider-Man. And then I'm just like, OK, this game's got good heroes and stuff. So you got in from Moxie. Yeah, I actually met Moxie. I played Among Us with him a couple of times. He duos with my former roommate, was good. You know Jelly Peanut? Yeah, I used to be roommates with him. And I lived in Texas.
TeamCaptain (45:50)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (45:56)
nice
TeamCaptain (46:00)
Really? I don't know him,
Coach Mills (46:06)
I
didn't know that either. That's crazy.
CaptainCoach (46:08)
Yeah, Jelly's my homie. We were roommates for a little over a year. Because I moved down there for streaming and stuff. So you didn't plan on becoming a streamer? It just kind of happened sort of thing? Or did you always want to? OK.
TeamCaptain (46:19)
I mean, like, I was in uni. I was going through like, education,
Coach Mills (46:23)
you're uni.
TeamCaptain (46:23)
so like, ⁓ I wasn't like, focused on like, streaming or content creation. I just like...
Coach Mills (46:28)
Are
CaptainCoach (46:29)
What were you studying?
Coach Mills (46:30)
you still in school? Or... Games design? ⁓ shit!
TeamCaptain (46:31)
Games design? Yeah, Yeah,
CaptainCoach (46:32)
Oh, yo, that's
TeamCaptain (46:35)
so I was in that. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (46:35)
sick. That was something I always wanted to do. My brother did that. Is it still something you're interested in? Like maybe pursue?
Coach Mills (46:37)
⁓
TeamCaptain (46:45)
so I was like two years in before like all the streaming stuff happened but I decided to just like leave it for now and I might go back to it but right now I'm just mostly focused on streaming online content creation. I think it's just like, it's more interesting for one and for two it's just like financially smarter at the moment so I'm just gonna keep doing it until it's not doing anything. It's probably my thought process.
CaptainCoach (47:00)
needs
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (47:15)
You
know, like, opportunities here are quite shite, to say the least. So I'm just gonna, like, keep sailing the boat until it crashes.
Coach Mills (47:26)
You're in Australia, that right? Scotland. Scotland. Well, how Scotland? Yeah, I don't know any, you know. ⁓
TeamCaptain (47:27)
going.
That's the flag of Scotland.
CaptainCoach (47:30)
Jesus Christ.
TeamCaptain (47:35)
The story behind me putting the flag up behind me...
CaptainCoach (47:36)
That was a joke, Coach Mills,
right?
Coach Mills (47:37)
Okay. I don't know. College dropout over here. You got to explain everything to me. What's going on?
CaptainCoach (47:42)
Ha ha ha!
TeamCaptain (47:42)
There's a reason why I have the flag behind me is because everyone would ask if I was Irish, so I thought if I put the flag behind me people would go, oh he's from Scotland, but people still ask me to this day every time I stream, where are from? Like I don't understand, is the fucking flag right there? It's right there!
Coach Mills (47:57)
Hey, it's farving. It's farving.
Yo, I don't know what that f- I don't know anything about a flake.
CaptainCoach (48:01)
What do
Scotland people think of the other regions, like NA, EU? Wait, what do you guys think of Americans? What's the narrative? Because I know a lot of people hate Americans.
Coach Mills (48:09)
Wait,
TeamCaptain (48:14)
⁓ Scottish people usually think Americans are very talkative, like you guys talk way too much but we also hate how happy you are, like you guys are just happy for no reason all the time and we kind of hate you for that because we are the exact opposite, very like, I don't want say we're cynical but we have like a certain view of life, you know and ⁓
CaptainCoach (48:21)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (48:27)
You
TeamCaptain (48:43)
We don't really hate you, like, we like Americans when they come over because they're usually chill, but we don't like the Americans that are like, oh yeah, I have Scottish ancestry, my great grandfather was William Wallace. That shit is so annoying. Like, we don't care. We genuinely don't care. Like, you're from America, you have an American accent, you have no culture from Scotland. Why the fuck are you telling me this, bro? Like...
CaptainCoach (48:58)
Yeah. It's like a...
Coach Mills (49:06)
Ha ha ha!
CaptainCoach (49:07)
It's like when
all those dumb boomers, remember when that show Yellowstone got really popular? Apparently there was this big movement where all these old white Americans moved to Oregon and tried to start a ranch. People don't know, ranching is a lot of work. It's really hard. It's not something you can just go and do. Apparently a lot of people moved out there and there's just a bunch of foreclosed homes. It's like this big, for a couple years, Americans are dumb.
TeamCaptain (49:13)
Yes, yes.
Coach Mills (49:15)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (49:36)
Yeah...
CaptainCoach (49:37)
Really dumb.
Coach Mills (49:38)
What server
TeamCaptain (49:38)
Yeah...
Coach Mills (49:38)
do you play on again, team captain? Do you play on, do you?
TeamCaptain (49:41)
I play on EU
depending on the time and if I'm like, completely horrible sleep schedule like I am right now, I'll play NA when EU queues start to get dead. Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:49)
You need to fly to America
one day so can do Team Captain Visits America videos. I want to just see you farming NA pros. ⁓
TeamCaptain (49:55)
I'm doing Asia. I'm
CaptainCoach (49:55)
Dude, I would, would, I would watch that.
TeamCaptain (49:58)
doing Asia. Like my girlfriend, she lives in the Philippines. So I'm going to the Philippines next month and I'm going to be streaming from there. I want to see if the Filipino, I don't think it's Filipino servers. think it's Tokyo is probably the closest one. ⁓ Probably those servers and see what's up over there. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (50:02)
No.
Coach Mills (50:03)
shit!
Represent, I like it.
CaptainCoach (50:16)
That's hype.
Coach Mills (50:16)
so
CaptainCoach (50:17)
That's really hype.
Coach Mills (50:19)
Yeah, it's probably Tokyo. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what that that's that's gonna be sick. That's gonna be sick.
TeamCaptain (50:24)
Yeah, should be fun.
CaptainCoach (50:25)
So what about when you were younger? You were always a gamer?
TeamCaptain (50:29)
I
always have been. ⁓
CaptainCoach (50:32)
Yeah? Grew up on
what, like, like YouTube or...
TeamCaptain (50:37)
When I was younger I grew up playing like Xbox 360 with my mates. we'd do like Black Ops 2, Modern Warfare 2, always run like zombies together and then like Minecraft came out, that was massive back then. And then I moved to PC and Team Fortress 2 was my game when I moved to PC. It was massive game for me. I love that game so much. And it kinda just got...
CaptainCoach (50:50)
Hell yeah.
Coach Mills (50:52)
You know?
CaptainCoach (51:00)
Mmm.
Yeah, TF2 is great.
TeamCaptain (51:06)
abandoned so that was a shame and then at that point I moved to overwatch so that became my next big game and and overwatch yeah like they stopped supporting it like content updates
CaptainCoach (51:14)
You said TF2 got abandoned?
Coach Mills (51:18)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (51:18)
I thought
you said you got abandoned by your parents or something. I'm like, wait, what? I just, I just, I wouldn't be a good interviewer if I just like, what?
Coach Mills (51:21)
No.
TeamCaptain (51:22)
No no no no no no no TF2 yeah they stopped up then
Coach Mills (51:25)
Yeah, couldn't play games anymore. He got abandoned. No more internet. There's no internet at the orphanage. Yeah, unlucky.
Fuck. Unlucky.
TeamCaptain (51:33)
So then I moved to Overwatch and then Overwatch was the game I was playing before Marvel for like all the time before then and I was like top 500 in Overwatch and playing competitively. I didn't play like in eSports. eSports was like really really hard to get into in Overwatch like you had to be like known. Like you had to have someone like put a name in for you to ever get your foot in the door and there was like so many tiers as well of professional play but...
CaptainCoach (51:36)
Okay. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
What's your favorite
game then? Like all time? Yeah.
TeamCaptain (52:05)
All time. ⁓
Probably Team Fortress 2 in its prime. don't think anything can really beat that. Like the level of mechanics that went into that game was so fun. Like movement. Yes. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (52:12)
Hell yeah. That's a good answer.
Coach Mills (52:17)
You said you played that on PC? You said you played it on PC? Yeah,
I only played it on the Orange Box on Xbox 360. It was not the same. Yeah, Yeah, it came with Portal, Half-Life 2, and Team Fortress 2 on the Xbox. But there was no hat, there was no like hat system. There was no like, you know, the training hat system and stuff.
TeamCaptain (52:23)
Really? I thought you wouldn't be.
Yeah, I couldn't imagine... Yeah.
I couldn't imagine playing with a controller for a Valve game. That's such a foreign concept to me. Why would you ever use a controller to play Valve games? ⁓
Coach Mills (52:41)
Yeah, that's all I can fucking do. Yeah. I didn't swap
over to PC until really late. Really, really, really late. Like, I played half of over part of Overwatch on console and then swapped over and I didn't.
TeamCaptain (52:54)
How was console
overwatch? What was that like?
Coach Mills (52:57)
I was shit at the time, was stuck in silver so I don't know. For me, I jammed Genji, I jammed Hanzo, it was terrible. ⁓ Everyone took it really seriously back then which was cool. I think that was fun. The most fun part about it, everyone was like, even on console people were trying to set up scrims and stuff and then there was just like a weird movement about everyone just trying to get better and go pro back then.
TeamCaptain (53:09)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (53:20)
I played Overwatch 2 a little bit and do you feel like I always wanted to ask like a Overwatch player this do you ever feel like their their pro scene was like too forced?
TeamCaptain (53:20)
Yeah.
Yes, you came with Overwatch League. It was natural, it was very artificial. They just kind of made a league before ever letting it become its own thing. Whereas like CS, was, yeah, like Season 1 Overwatch League was amazing, I love that.
Coach Mills (53:33)
Franchising Oyo. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (53:35)
Like I felt like
Coach Mills (53:38)
It was.
It was hype though for a little bit, but yeah, it was definitely forced. I
watched every episode. I I watched all the games in season one. Yeah, it was basically there was like a sweet spot when Overwatch League came out. There was a lot of money in it. All the players got paid a lot. So it was really hype. And then that was like, there was like a sweet spot before goats got introduced that kind of just like torpedoed the pro scene in my opinion. That was like one of the many reasons why. ⁓
CaptainCoach (53:51)
Really?
TeamCaptain (54:09)
You had so many
big names that people would watch for like Pine, had ⁓ Carpe, later on you had Anz who came in, Sebi Obe, I love Sebi Obe, he was so good.
Coach Mills (54:18)
Yeah.
Like, yeah, like, imagine tomorrow, Captain Coach, all the big, like, all of the big streamers and pros just, like, got signed, 150k, everyone's flying out, playing in events, competing. That was kind of, Overwatch League was like that, where it just, like, not even just pros, just, really known players. It was like the Wild West at the time.
CaptainCoach (54:40)
but isn't.
TeamCaptain (54:42)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (54:43)
Yeah, I think I mean cuz it's not really that big now right or is it like even around yeah, yeah
TeamCaptain (54:48)
No, it's not even a thing. It's the Overwatch
Coach Mills (54:51)
No, it died. Well, COVID completely killed it. Like it
TeamCaptain (54:51)
Championship now, which is like more... ⁓ less artificial. Yeah, Covid did, yeah.
Coach Mills (54:58)
was already on the downturn because of GOATS, which was like a 3-3 meta. 3-tank 3 support, by the way, that just basically was like the best comp and everyone's afraid of it in Rivals becoming a thing. But then COVID completely killed it and they basically restarted everything ⁓ from fresh, from stretch.
TeamCaptain (55:14)
Yeah, so Saudi Arabia actually
saved it. Saudi Arabia put money into the e-sport, otherwise the Overwatch e-sports would have just died. There wasn't any money in the market for it, so if it wasn't for Saudi Arabia there wouldn't even be a championship or anything.
Coach Mills (55:31)
Hashtag sponsor, hashtag adnomsking. but yeah, no, it's true. No, it's true. Yeah. Team Falcons, I think is their team. I believe. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (55:39)
Thanks for your...
CaptainCoach (55:41)
Well, I mean, like the league, I was around for like the rise and I League of Legends is still around. And that felt to me like, cause I only played Overwatch for like a month, but I was kind of like watching from the outside in. The league e-sport, I feel like happened way more organically. It was like way more grassroots. There wasn't these leagues and all this like professional, it wasn't production values, it people like putting on tournaments together. And I don't know, maybe it's just like the genre.
Like, hero shooters aren't as watchable, maybe?
Coach Mills (56:14)
Well, no, think our esports scene is doing really well, in my opinion. It's pretty grassroots. There's a lot of big tournaments that are happening. I think the pro scene is doing well. I don't know how you feel about it, Tinkai. I think the pro scene is actually off to a reasonable start for it being so early in the game's life cycle.
CaptainCoach (56:17)
really? okay.
I enjoy watching competitive Marvel rivals. It's actually kind of fun to watch.
TeamCaptain (56:32)
I think it's good. I like how they're getting the world involved rather than just being localized to America and only America. So that's good. ⁓ I think I would like to see more fan-made tournaments though. Boger Bash was really good. That was awesome. I think that was the best one so far. But I don't if you guys saw the Courage one recently. I think it happened yesterday.
Coach Mills (56:58)
Yeah, I did see that. ⁓
TeamCaptain (57:00)
What the fuck was going on with that? He put out a tweet saying, we need more players for our tournament. And a bunch of people responded under it. It was just an engagement bit. And I looked at the tournament and I don't even know half the people on it.
Coach Mills (57:03)
Okay.
It's bullshit. Fucking bullshit, yeah.
CaptainCoach (57:12)
wow.
Coach Mills (57:15)
He literally
he already had all the big guys that he wanted on the thing He wasn't really gonna bring anyone on that replied to that thing. I saw that. Yeah, it was kind of ⁓ Know that you say you're screaming and I know you played pro I don't do you still play you still play for a team or not officially right now?
TeamCaptain (57:19)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
play for a team but we've not really done much. As of recent people have just got stuff going on in their life. Don't really have time for it.
Coach Mills (57:41)
Would you wanna
be ⁓ like Chase Pro and play in Ignite and qualify and do the LAN stuff? I know that that's hard to balance with streaming, but some people...
TeamCaptain (57:46)
So.
Yeah the thing with
pro play is that you need to dedicate a lot of time to scrims and what not and a lot of the scrims have a no streaming policy so if I was to do that then I would have to take time off streaming and for me that's just like why would I do that? You're basically just putting all your eggs into one basket and the one basket you're putting all your eggs into you won't even be able to get anything out of the eggs you know whereas streaming I'm guaranteed to at least
get something even if I'm not enjoying myself.
CaptainCoach (58:22)
⁓ If money wasn't involved, what would you rather do?
TeamCaptain (58:28)
⁓ Streaming to be honest, think streaming is more fun like pro play is like you don't understand when when you're playing as a professional in a game You really start to not Enjoy playing the game as a game. It becomes a job It becomes a chore and you actually start to hate it I feel like me personally I may be different for other people but it really makes me see
CaptainCoach (58:45)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (58:54)
the things that I don't enjoy about the game way more than I would if I was just playing ranked. Whereas ranked has its own issues but pro play is like people will min max the most bullshit stuff to try and get the win because that's the goal you want to win right? But then you start to see the issues with the game itself I think.
CaptainCoach (59:00)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (59:18)
When it's limit tested to the limit, yeah.
CaptainCoach (59:18)
get put on Magneto
duty. I don't do that anymore. I just don't play Magneto anymore. You know what's funny? It's like helps me more than like I've gotten the highest rank just like not ever playing with the team. I just play what I want and it usually works.
TeamCaptain (59:31)
Yeah,
I mean, like, I think if you're confident in your skills, you shouldn't abuse flexing, to be honest. Like, if you're flexing, then you're just... A lot of the flex players that you see in ranked, and I'm not saying that flexing's a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but they tend to not be really good at anything. They're just, like, average. I get that, I get that.
CaptainCoach (59:35)
Yeah.
True.
Coach Mills (59:50)
What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? I love flexing.
CaptainCoach (59:51)
Damn, fired to Coach Mills. Shots fired, bro.
Coach Mills (59:57)
I like flexing because I feel like it makes me a better coach. I can coach people better when I like get a little bit in their shoes. But I do agree. If everyone is playing the right role on the team, like if you let's just say you have a 2-2-2 or triple support, you don't want the Phoenix that flexes the Phoenix. You want the fucking one trick Phoenix. You want the one trick Psylocke. You want the one trick bag. You want the one trick.
TeamCaptain (1:00:00)
No, that's completely fair. I flakes a lot.
Yes, of course.
Coach Mills (1:00:20)
You want everyone to be a one trick if the comp works out. Just like...
TeamCaptain (1:00:22)
And teams aren't
looking for people that are flexing, they're looking for players that are confident in their role and they get shit done. They aren't looking for the person that's just going to take up whatever is given to them. So I think if you're really wanting to become a really good player and what you enjoy playing then you should try and stick to it much as possible. You shouldn't really be playing around what your team is doing.
CaptainCoach (1:00:47)
Okay, well down that path then, you've gotten rank one. Is it rank one in, I mean you've gotten actually rank one in the game, right? Yeah, and then you've also gotten rank one, okay, twice. And then also at like each individual character according to what, like, like sites different, right? Okay.
TeamCaptain (1:00:55)
in the world, yeah. Twice. Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:00:59)
That's right.
TeamCaptain (1:01:03)
statistics, it's just like Rivals meh. I think it's better
if you do it based off rank rather than off like what the website says because the website will take into account matches played more than anything else so there could be like some shit Bob Lowe diamond player who has a thousand games on one character and he's the number one player in that fucking role so I think it's a bit weird.
CaptainCoach (1:01:09)
Right.
Coach Mills (1:01:10)
Highest rank right.
CaptainCoach (1:01:25)
Well,
and it was also cool that you said you played like, you know, you purposely play off meta stuff. This was the number one thing I wanted to ask you and I'm glad I remembered it. ⁓ Cause it's cool cause back when I played League, I did the same thing. I was actually a rank one Yorick, a character called Yorick, which is like a character nobody played and I played him in the jungle. And I just, with League of Legends, wasn't so much about like, it was more just like what items you pick and you could like strategize your way through games in ways that like could
TeamCaptain (1:01:46)
Right.
CaptainCoach (1:01:55)
Not break the game, but I don't know. I get what you're saying, but I want to know what your process is, basically. What do you think is the most important piece of advice you can give to someone trying to become not just good at the game, but the best? You get what I'm saying? What is your number one tip? Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:02:11)
Right.
Number one tip, easy,
I already know it. Number one tip is if you wanna be better than everyone and truly master whatever you do, you need to know what everyone else is doing. So you need to play other characters. If you don't understand how certain characters and interactions work, then how do you expect to counter them or play better against them? So let's say like playing tank for a bit, truly understand what a tank player's job is, what their brain is thinking.
Because if you're not in their head, then how are you going to make an outplay? How are you going to like work around what they're doing? I think a lot of people like that skill. So I think really getting yourself in your opponent's shoes is a great way of becoming a better player. Because everything that you do in the game is all up here as game sense. Mechanically, you could just hit two headshots and kill someone, but you're not going to be winning all your games off that just alone, you know? So really just...
learn everything that can about every character and truly understand the game itself.
CaptainCoach (1:03:16)
That's interesting. I was not expecting that. Probably because I don't come from hero shooters. Do you think that translates to other games as well? Like, I guess it would probably be pretty dependent, but.
TeamCaptain (1:03:27)
It would translate to like maybe MOBAs, would say, definitely MOBAs. It wouldn't really translate to like tactical shooters.
CaptainCoach (1:03:31)
I wouldn't be...
that's why I ask, like, like I said, come from mobo's and League has like 150, 60...
TeamCaptain (1:03:42)
I would not want to work a week. That would be a chore. That would be a chore.
Coach Mills (1:03:44)
Hehehehehe
CaptainCoach (1:03:44)
Yeah, well, what I'm saying
is like I There are some I would be watching league streams and be surprised sometimes at the lack of knowledge Even top players would have about some of the heroes Just because they did what they did really well You don't think that's a valid strategy at all in Marvel rivals just to become a pure one trick or
TeamCaptain (1:04:01)
Yes.
It's obviously
a valid strategy if you're playing ranked but if you want to play at the top level then how can you expect to just like one trick a character and that's all you know about the game is that hero. Obviously you'll know how certain interactions will work into different things but you won't really know what your goal is or what the enemy's goal is as their character as you know.
CaptainCoach (1:04:30)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:04:32)
Like for example, if I'm on Hulk, right? This is gonna make a good comparison for you to really get it. And I'm playing against a Doctor Strange, what's one of the most impactful things that you can do in that matchup? Exactly, exactly. So what can you do as a Hulk player to understand when the Strange is gonna ult? You need to put yourself in his shoes. When is he gonna ult? You need to know when would be the best opportunity for him to go for it, you know?
Coach Mills (1:04:32)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:04:45)
Her up is alt, shield is alt.
I usually just follow them around until they all... or...
TeamCaptain (1:05:01)
Yeah, I
Coach Mills (1:05:01)
Yeah
TeamCaptain (1:05:01)
mean that's a good way of doing it, yeah, why not?
CaptainCoach (1:05:03)
Or what
I'll do is I'll literally, it's funny, sometimes I'll go and hide and then I'm just like, okay, I'm let him ult and then I'm gonna make him waste it. So I just hope they lose track of me. I do stupid shit, but like, yeah, I guess, yeah, maybe if I played strange, could, I mean, usually it's when he jumps and then it's like, okay, just jump back when he jumps, but.
TeamCaptain (1:05:23)
Yeah.
but you'll see that
the smarter that the strange players get, they'll look at your cooldown management and they'll alt-based off that. Did you use bubbles? Did you use your Excel recently? You know?
CaptainCoach (1:05:31)
yeah.
Well, yeah,
I'll change my whole strategy just when I know a strange ult is coming. I found like for Hulk, that's like how you have to play the game. have to basically, what does Hulk bring to a team that no other character does? It's his immunity to ults. So you have to land those consistently. You have to land ult immunity. So sometimes I will literally take myself out of a fight, just completely ditch any chance I have of getting ace and just like sit in like a little room, just like, hee hee, know, just like waiting for it.
TeamCaptain (1:05:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:06:05)
But, yeah, I don't know. mean, like, I guess if I played Strange, how much would that better make me at Hulk? I don't know. Probably a decent amount. I don't know. just, I guess it goes back to what you were saying. don't want to play those characters, so I don't, I don't.
TeamCaptain (1:06:23)
You know what made me such a good Wolverine player? Was because I was a tank player before I played Wolverine. So I was literally just in the mind of every tank player and back in season 0 there wasn't a single strange player that played against me and used his ultimate effectively because I was always just grabbing him out of ult or ulting his ult. So like the best way being a good Wolverine player and a lot of the best Wolverine players are actually tank players playing Wolverine. You'll notice.
CaptainCoach (1:06:26)
What's up?
huh.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Do you think your 80%, 20 % game sense mechanics applies to every character?
TeamCaptain (1:06:59)
No. No. Definitely not.
CaptainCoach (1:07:00)
Most carrot,
maybe like tanks.
TeamCaptain (1:07:03)
100 % tanks without a mind. I think maybe Venom has a bit of leeway because of the way his aiming works, but I think when it comes to like hitscan DPS is 50, I would say like 60 % mechanics, 40 % game sense, you know, like the best players are coked out their mind, like aiming like you haven't seen, you know, so I think it really depends on the character, but like
CaptainCoach (1:07:06)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:07:17)
Fit, sexy.
CaptainCoach (1:07:21)
Right, sure.
Coach Mills (1:07:25)
Right.
CaptainCoach (1:07:25)
Yeah
TeamCaptain (1:07:31)
Melee characters are mostly macro. Iron fist is macro, like it's not really the mechanics, it's just how well can you manage your cooldowns to effectively stand the fight.
CaptainCoach (1:07:38)
Yeah.
I feel like Iron Fist is deceptively hard. You have a lot of choices to make. He's not an easy character to play.
TeamCaptain (1:07:46)
Yes. Iron Fist you can get blown
up in two seconds but there'll be like an Iron Fist player that you play against and he'll be the most annoying cockroach that just doesn't die and he'll just be flying around the map and you can't fucking do anything. So yeah, I think a lot of characters are deceptively hard for sure. I think the air devil looks really hard, I am very interested to see. Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:07:55)
Hahaha.
CaptainCoach (1:07:55)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (1:08:06)
he looks insane. I was watching some of
CaptainCoach (1:08:07)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:08:08)
his combos. He has crazy combos, like insane combos.
TeamCaptain (1:08:10)
yeah
I think he's going to be good an actually good melee character so that's going to be a lot of fun to see.
Coach Mills (1:08:17)
So how long until the community complains and they nerf him? Is it gonna be like a month or what? ⁓ You think so?
TeamCaptain (1:08:21)
⁓ I think people are going to say he's bad at the start. Everyone
thought Blade was OP when the first initial things came out.
Coach Mills (1:08:28)
I guess that
CaptainCoach (1:08:28)
I think
Coach Mills (1:08:29)
is
CaptainCoach (1:08:29)
their devil looks better than Blade. He looks better.
Coach Mills (1:08:29)
true. I'm pretty sure he's definitely better than Blade. I'm almost positive.
TeamCaptain (1:08:34)
His ult looks
really good. If you play the Overwatch it's like a rematch, but I think the mechanic is that if you're looking at him...
Coach Mills (1:08:40)
Yeah, just the fact that if he...
I mean, he has a reflect. that just... All my hours on Genji, I'm like... Yeah, yeah, it's actually insane.
TeamCaptain (1:08:47)
that actually aims to where you're aiming that's crazy yeah
CaptainCoach (1:08:53)
I actually made me think of another question I wanted to ask. What's your process with learning new characters? Like, do you like to just go and limit test and make as many mistakes as you can and to see like, does this work, does this work? Or is it more just like a slow process where it's just like, okay, let's keep the game close to get an idea of like what the game feels like and see what the character, how it performs in like game scenarios. You know what I'm saying? Or do you really try to start it? Like maybe you'll just like lose a lot of games just to break your character, but figure out some crazy tech.
TeamCaptain (1:09:14)
Mm-mm.
Okay so first you get the mechanics down So as soon as you get the mechanics down, I mean basics like cooldown usage How long are my cooldowns coming off? So how I know in my brain when I can press them again without having to actually look at the bar And then knowing my uptime on certain things So like if playing Captain America how long can I just run around their backline without having to leave And then you learn more advanced mechanics, so like combos and stuff
and then you want to get into like the game sense part where it's like using your ults correctly, your positioning and your matchups. think matchups is probably the last thing you want to learn because it's like more in depth for the character. You want to truly master the character first and then you think about your matchups. But like how do I play against something that is obviously just straight up bad for me? So let's think Angela versus Invisible Woman, right? But still make it work because she can still be really good.
Coach Mills (1:10:02)
Right.
TeamCaptain (1:10:18)
So let's say I'm playing on Hell's Heaven, the map with the lava pit, you know what I'm talking about right? So on Angela you can just take them off the map, push them in that pit and then you're winning the point for free. But if an invis woman is there and just sent invisible wind for you to do it and pulling you off, then maybe you just engage on the invis, force her cooldowns and then you look for it, because then you know that she doesn't have those cooldowns. That's something that you can build upon later down the line I think.
CaptainCoach (1:10:46)
So it's like a more of like a, you're like really methodical about it. Do you think about the game when you're not playing it? Like just when you're doing other stuff? Yeah. I think you kind of have to in some ways if you want to be like the top.
TeamCaptain (1:10:53)
Sadly. Yeah, I wish it hadn't.
Coach Mills (1:10:54)
Consumes everything
TeamCaptain (1:10:59)
You do
Coach Mills (1:10:59)
Walk through a crowd and you're like I could bladdle everyone in this crowd. No, I know These this fucking lines long at the grocery store. no
TeamCaptain (1:11:02)
Yeah, exactly. ⁓
CaptainCoach (1:11:02)
What? Jesus Christ. We're getting canceled episode two. ⁓
TeamCaptain (1:11:10)
Nah.
CaptainCoach (1:11:10)
So what do you do for fun then? Do you just like watch shows or like go outside? like sports or anything?
TeamCaptain (1:11:16)
I really need to get back into sports and stuff. think I would probably enjoy streaming more if I did, to be honest. But for fun I would say I'm mostly just hanging out with my girlfriend and then if my friends are available I'll go speak to my friends, do something with friends, ⁓ play other games. That is a good reminder that you actually enjoy video games. ⁓
CaptainCoach (1:11:22)
You and me both,
yeah. I dude I-
Coach Mills (1:11:39)
What's
your other game right now besides Rivals? Mega Boss? I haven't tried that yet. Is it worth the buy? It looks fun as hell,
TeamCaptain (1:11:43)
bro, Mega Monk, that game is so fun.
Yes, it's cheap, it's fun,
it's got replayability. mean, it's like, if you like roguelikes, then it's a fun game, you know? There's a progression system. You know what makes it fun from Rivals is the fact that you can just turn your brain off and the game just plays. And you can just do whatever. You can talk to someone in the background.
CaptainCoach (1:12:02)
Those are
Coach Mills (1:12:03)
Oh. I
could just play cloak and dagger instead and do the same thing. Right? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Hey, whoa. Okay. I'll just start.
TeamCaptain (1:12:07)
Yeah, he's like, your kids are downstairs,
CaptainCoach (1:12:10)
That's what I look for in my...
I usually have like a main game and a side game. My side game right now is just wow. I'm just playing World of Warcraft.
TeamCaptain (1:12:16)
yeah, world of warcraft
bro, i go into world of warcraft ⁓ hardcore as my first world of warcraft experience yeah
CaptainCoach (1:12:21)
yo dude, that's-
Coach Mills (1:12:23)
You
CaptainCoach (1:12:24)
wait, what did you pick? What did you play?
TeamCaptain (1:12:27)
So first I played the Wharf Hunter, I think.
CaptainCoach (1:12:31)
Dude, I'm a dwarf player. I can tell. I could just tell with people, man. Dwarves are the least played race, but I know the type, man. ⁓ I'm dwarf through and through. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:12:33)
Yeah, I'm always the worst.
Coach Mills (1:12:34)
Ugh.
TeamCaptain (1:12:37)
Yeah.
Because they're like Scottish people man, dwarfs in like mythology are
just small Scottish people so I always go with the dwarfs. Yeah. So I just, I like chill games on the side. it, because like playing like 8 to 10 hours a day, constant like competitive games, I think you need like something to just turn your brain off and enjoy. Because like, I know people think that video games are like a mind numbing like brain dead hobby.
CaptainCoach (1:12:45)
Hell yeah, Yeah.
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:13:10)
but I think playing competitive games is like playing chess in my opinion. think a game like Overwatch, Marvel Rivals is chess but more complicated and I don't think people are ready for that topic because chess is seen as something so prestigious but I do think it's harder.
CaptainCoach (1:13:28)
Well, I mean, I agree
with you. Chess has been figured out. Technically, Marvel rivals will never be figured out. There are literal infinite choices you have to make at any point. Like, you can literally go anywhere you want at any time. So it's just like the skill ceiling is technically higher. And you know, who play chess, playing chess actually burns a lot of calories. Did you know that? Yep. So I'd say by proxy.
TeamCaptain (1:13:42)
Yeah.
Really?
Coach Mills (1:13:53)
So they're so
focused. Don't they like get break out into a sweat and all that stuff when they're like really that's what I've heard.
CaptainCoach (1:13:58)
I think it's more
about what it requires for the brain to actually be actively thinking like that. It's just like your body's in a more heightened state. I don't really know the science though, if I'm being honest. That's just a guess. But yeah, you burn way more calories playing chess. So I would assume that probably translates to games if you're challenging yourself in the same way, I would think.
TeamCaptain (1:14:19)
That would make
sense because I've been perpetually skinny. I don't know if it's metabolism but maybe it's games, who knows. could be a thing.
CaptainCoach (1:14:22)
Yeah, skinny, me too.
I'm-
Coach Mills (1:14:27)
I don't know if that makes sense, I'll take y'all's word for it.
CaptainCoach (1:14:30)
I don't know, I heard that somewhere. We got anything else we want to say, Coach Mills?
Coach Mills (1:14:34)
Well, okay,
I got, I wanted to ask one last question. This is just a lighthearted question. I wanted to see if you could bring like an ability or ultimate from another game and bring it into Rivals. What would it be? It could be anything. I'll go first just so you get an example. I think Octane's Jump Pad would be really fun from Apex, which is just like, it's a deployable jump pad. Both teams could use it. It just launches people forward. You could launch your whole team on it. I think that would be really fun.
TeamCaptain (1:14:53)
Yeah, I know it.
Coach Mills (1:15:01)
as an ability or ultimate. What would y'all bring? From any, any game, could be water war, it could be any game in history. Y'all could bring one into the game.
TeamCaptain (1:15:07)
I've
got one. I've got one. It's less of an ability, more of a mechanic. So Rivals has embraced the fact that it likes beat-hopping, I think that's a very defined mechanic in the game and I love that they have that and Overwatch doesn't. I think it's a really good mechanic to keep in the game. And I think rocket jumping on a character could be interesting. Because momentum is a thing. So I think that...
Coach Mills (1:15:16)
Yeah.
⁓ wait, that'd be insane. ⁓
TeamCaptain (1:15:33)
a character
being based on momentum and rocket jumping could be interesting. Now I don't know what character that would be but it's possible with Marvel. 100%.
Coach Mills (1:15:36)
That would actually be.
There has to be a whole bunch of characters that could do that, for sure.
CaptainCoach (1:15:44)
Okay,
I have a lot of things I wanna say, but I'm gonna take it from the anime Naruto, the fourth Hokage's teleportation skill. I wanna see that on like Quicksilver. So it's like the way they do super speed, Quicksilver, that's the name of the speedster, right? I actually don't know. Yeah. So the way they do super speed in the game is literally just, it's just teleports, but it like, you know, they animate it to make it look like he's like, whoop, you know, something like that would be really cool, but.
TeamCaptain (1:16:00)
Yes, it's Quakes over here.
Coach Mills (1:16:01)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:16:12)
Honorable mention to ⁓ Stealth, just Stealth-Sap combo, like Stunlock from Stealth and WoW, like Roguing, playing Roguing WoW. Just something like OP. I like long CC, that's kinda why like Hulk, is cause I can stunlock someone for like 20, so a way to just like completely make someone useless, I don't know.
TeamCaptain (1:16:22)
Yeah, yeah,
You know people
hate playing against Long's CC but they love having it, you notice that? They always complain about CC but what's the most fun about a lot of characters' kits at CC? Spider-Man hooking you, Bucky hooking you, Hulk exile, you know, all these things are CC but it's the most fun part of kits.
CaptainCoach (1:16:36)
Yes
Coach Mills (1:16:38)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, just people that played Doomfist versus people that went up against Doomfist, DPS Doomfist. It's like, okay, I'm changing my answer. I want hack from Sombra into Rival Sombra. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. ⁓ No, would actually... No, Hulk would actually just be miserable. I'm not gonna lie. You'd be the worst. You'd be actually completely miserable.
TeamCaptain (1:16:55)
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Fuck you. Fuck you. Nah. You do not want this, Captain Coach. You do not want this.
Hacking Overwatch 1 was so much worse as well. 4 second lockout of all cooldowns, how unfun is that?
Coach Mills (1:17:18)
Yeah. Hey, did she basically? Yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:17:22)
What about a TF2
Coach Mills (1:17:23)
Just perv- Yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:17:24)
spy?
TeamCaptain (1:17:26)
Mmm, it just, it wouldn't be good. That's the issue. Spy is the worst class in the game. He's the worst class. It wouldn't work in pro play. Because the whole part is the disguise kit, Then you just go, hey, hey X player is that you behind me? No it's not. Okay, I'm gonna shoot him in the head. You know, and then GG.
CaptainCoach (1:17:27)
brought that.
Coach Mills (1:17:31)
Because you could just shoot at each other. Yeah, you just you just get to shoot it's
CaptainCoach (1:17:34)
Yeah, I don't know. For anyone who doesn't know, TF2's spy, they... Yeah, they can just be anybody who they want, pretty much. They backstab ya!
Yeah, that's good point. Fair point.
TeamCaptain (1:18:01)
People were saying that about Mystique, know the character Mystique from X-Men.
CaptainCoach (1:18:06)
Yeah, I mean, there's gotta... Yeah, like, how would you do that? That's what- Well, that's what I mean, though!
Coach Mills (1:18:08)
Like to turn into other people? I don't know how they would do, I don't even know how they would make that character. She can't use
people's powers in the comics. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:18:16)
Cause that's
CaptainCoach (1:18:18)
That's what I mean
though, some characters you just have to balance around not being played in competitive if you want your game to be fun. You know what mean?
TeamCaptain (1:18:24)
Yeah, if you want to embrace
the character fantasy aspect, I think you need to make it so that maybe they're not that good.
CaptainCoach (1:18:31)
Like,
okay, like they're for sure gonna add Deadpool eventually. And I feel like dude, Deadpool, one of his abilities should break the fourth wall and like, wave to the camera or something. And maybe when he does that, it's like, it's like maybe it's like his alt, something crazy happens. Like maybe he just like, I don't know. Like, you know, they could do some weird stuff with it, but like things like that. Okay. Turns off the enemy team's voice comms. I don't know, but like they.
TeamCaptain (1:18:40)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:18:50)
crash someone's game. Let's do that. Yeah, just straight up crash someone's game. That's really breaking the fourth wall. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (1:18:58)
You should make it
so each of his limbs has like a health pool and if you shut off his limbs he gets like, you know, like a lump or something. That'd be cool.
CaptainCoach (1:19:03)
that's crazy.
Coach Mills (1:19:03)
No.
CaptainCoach (1:19:06)
Make him a tank. That's hilarious. Yeah, I mean, I'm excited, man. I think there's like a lot of cool stuff they could add.
TeamCaptain (1:19:10)
It could be something fun.
Coach Mills (1:19:15)
I wanted to hear your opinion on this real quick, team captain. ⁓ I think the one effect that they can't put into Rivals at all, it would break the game, is like D.Va's defense matrix. I think that that's probably the most scary effect that you could put in a game like this, just in general. Because it just like makes... Totally a cool...
TeamCaptain (1:19:23)
Yeah.
But hate D.Va so I'm totally cool with not adding D.Va Defense Matrix. I was a Junkrat player
CaptainCoach (1:19:33)
She was my...
TeamCaptain (1:19:34)
for a long time and that character completely shot you down. Respect.
CaptainCoach (1:19:35)
Yo, me too!
Coach Mills (1:19:38)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (1:19:38)
D.Va was my-
that's so funny when I played Overwatch for like a month and my favorite character I played Junkrat and I hated D.Va. I hated her. I hated her and I didn't know why.
TeamCaptain (1:19:45)
Of course, it's just your counter, well.
Coach Mills (1:19:48)
Because
giving like anti-projecto and anti-air capabilities to a tank, just... She's the whole reason ghosts existed, honestly. Like, before ghosts existed. I mean, we could blind Brig, but like, it's really D.Va's fault. And she's just a scary character. I think we could probably... You think we couldn't put speed boost in Rivals? I think speed boost could work.
TeamCaptain (1:20:00)
I think lose sale was a massive factor as well. Speedboost is just so impactful.
No, I want speed boost in Rivals
that isn't Jeff Bubble, 100%. I think speed boost is such a nuanced and skilled mechanic, yes, I think so. Do we even have like a melee tank, a full, like I mean like Reinhardt, I don't mean like Angela, I mean like full melee, like in your face, fucking you up tank.
Coach Mills (1:20:12)
yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy how we haven't had it. I can't believe we haven't had it. That's nuts, actually.
4 million?
CaptainCoach (1:20:27)
They
need to make Thanos. It's thing, it's just thing. Thanos needs to be a melee anchor tank. That's what Thanos will be. Or maybe Juggernaut. Pure melee and then it's like the tankiness of like Emma or Mag. That's what I wanna see. I would love to see that. Just hands. Thanos got that blade.
Coach Mills (1:20:29)
Not really. Like, I got what? yeah, I guess it is thing. Yeah, I guess it's thing. Kind of group, kind of Thor, but not really.
TeamCaptain (1:20:33)
Well thank you, I guess.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:20:46)
Just hands.
TeamCaptain (1:20:49)
I want Ghost Rider as a
tank. I think that should be a tank.
CaptainCoach (1:20:52)
That'd be sick. That'd be really sick.
TeamCaptain (1:20:54)
I think he should be a tank.
Coach Mills (1:20:54)
Ghost Rider.
I want that. That's that's a sick pool. Yeah, Ghost Rider would be insane actually.
watching them play like they were bouncing back and forth ultimates with Daredevil. You can reflect an Ironman ultimate basically over and over again.
TeamCaptain (1:21:06)
Yes.
which is insane. I think the flight also deals melee damage, of course, if I'm not. Yeah.
Coach Mills (1:21:18)
Yes, yes it does.
But yeah, okay, well.
TeamCaptain (1:21:20)
He looks like a
five-star hero in my opinion. He looks like he has so much nuance and tech. I'm very excited to play him.
Coach Mills (1:21:28)
Yeah, I'll... Are you... Is this another character you're gonna master? Are you gonna get cracked in them?
TeamCaptain (1:21:33)
I think
regardless of whether he's good or bad I'm gonna master him, yeah. 100%.
CaptainCoach (1:21:37)
You heard it here first. It's Canon on the podcast.
TeamCaptain (1:21:40)
Yeah, officially.
Coach Mills (1:21:42)
Alright well before I stop the recording, where can people find you? Where is the best place for people to support you?
TeamCaptain (1:21:50)
You can support me on my Twitch, which is twitch.tv slash teamcaptain001 or my YouTube which is teamcaptain001 I stream on both places but you can find my YouTube videos on YouTube obviously and I post on Twitter but who gives a crap about Twitter Find me there
Coach Mills (1:22:06)
You
Nice, nice, perfect. right, well, catch y'all later.