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A weekly podcast delivering diverse insights and perspectives from global leaders in business, executive education and diversity & inclusion. Hosted by award-winning content creator, author, speaker, certified diversity executive and cofounder of The Diversity Movement, Jackie Ferguson.
JACKIE: You're listening to the Diversity Beyond
the Checkbox podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, certified Diversity Executive Writer, human rights advocate, and co
founder of the diversity movement. On this podcast,
I'm talking to trailblazers game changers and
glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring
stories, lessons learned, and insights on business,
inclusion, and personal development. Thanks for
listening to the diversity beyond the Checkbox
podcast. I'm so glad you're here. My guest today is Kai Whedai. Kai is Densu International's first
senior vice president of diversity, Equity and
inclusion. Kai previously served as a diversity and inclusion client partner at Bloomberg and Director of Diversity and Engagement
at McCann New York. Kai, thank you so much for
joining me today. I'm so glad to spend some time
with you.
KAI: Yeah, absolutely, likewise. I really appreciate
you having me on the show today, Jackie.
JACKIE: Of course. Kai, will you tell us a little
about yourself, your background, your family,
your identity, whatever you'd like to share.
KAI: Yeah, I was born to two African American
parents who met in college in the late 1960s,
which I think very much shaped my upbringing to
be very proud of being black and very educated
and well versed on black history in the United
States. And I'm grateful for it, especially since
I grew up in a suburb, a suburb called Columbia,
Maryland, which is for as suburban as it is actually
pretty, has some representation, I think it could
be pretty proud of. That being said, still predominantly
white space. I was able to my closest circle,
I think was and remains of varying backgrounds,
but again, mostly surrounded by white kids growing
up. And I was a competitive synchronized swimmer
growing up and all the way through college. So
I just made my experience a little bit wider doing
that, but it was something I loved. But I think
a lot of that really informed the work that I
do today. Right. So navigating spaces where I'm
one of only or one of few and successfully building
relationships, sort of climbing and hopefully
showing folks coming up behind me that they can
do that as well. And I take that obviously into
the work that I do every day and use it, I think,
on both sides of it. Right. So communicating and
building those relationships with the people who
maybe this is their first time being the only
or one of few, but then also working with people
who obviously this is most often white people
who don't have as much experience with people
who are not like them. So helping them when they
have good intentions to show up as their best
and challenge themselves.
JACKIE: For sure. Thanks for sharing that. Kai,
let's talk more about your role at Densu. What
is the mission of the organization? And tell us
about your role. What are your goals and what
are your challenges being the first in your role
there?
KAI: So our mission at Densu is to be a champion
for meaningful progress and a force for good and
that's with our people, for our people, for our
clients, for our industry and then also for society.
We're really committed to long term sustainable change and within densu to ensure a culture of equity,
inclusion and belonging. We put our people at
the center and we really work hard to create a
space for growth and for thriving and we do that
with our four pillars. So transparency and accountability
that's really making ourselves vulnerable and
transparent and accountable for our actions. You've
likely seen our Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
report that we put out each year sharing density's, best practices around talent, recruitment, retention,
growth, social impact and more. It includes population
data that's scary stuff and our goals for the
future as well. And we were one of the first holding
companies to put that out, to put a report like
that out and we're incredibly proud of that next
pillar representation and sponsorship that's building
a diverse and inclusive and accessible workforce
and creating a more equal workplace for all. So
how are we making that house a home for our people
once we bring them in? Education and continuous
learning. So really making sure we're making cultural
fluency our new business currency and then client
and community impact. So that's really committing
to being that force for good within our industry,
our communities and our societies. And my remit
is focused on our media service line and I'm really
proud to be a part of an organization that really
recognizes the nuance that dei takes within each
different types of disciplines. So we have kind
of a unique structure that I think we're going
to talk a little bit more later. But we have our
Chief Equity Officer of the Americas. That's Christina Pyle, our fearless leader there at the
center, who really earn her team arm us to lead
the change and to address both the broader challenges
that you see across all of our industry, but then
also the specific ones that pop up. So I have counterparts in density, creative and then our merkel business
as well.
JACKIE: I love Kai that you talked about these
pillars, right? Because sometimes leaders dig
into one of those aspects and not the others,
right? And transparency and accountability. I
love that you said that. I love that you started
with that because that is scary for a lot of leaders.
Being a Gen Xer, I started my career where the
leader had the answer. The leader was always right,
don't question the leader, right? And so now moving
into this space of being honest about the things
that are going right, the things that are not
the things that you need to improve on admitting
when you get it wrong, right? That's a new paradigm for a lot of leaders but
something that's so important because that's what
employees are looking for when they look for a
place that they want to be and work and I think
that's so important. So thanks for sharing those
and yes, we are going to get into those a little
bit more. I'd love to talk about Densu's 50 micro
actions that we can take to inspire equity, inclusion
in the workplace. I'm certainly not going to make
you go through all 50.
KAI: Okay.
JACKIE: Can you share a couple of those that we can implement immediately?
KAI: Yeah, absolutely. So we challenged our leaders
to think about how they can bring inclusion to
life within their own teams in a really sort of
accessible way. Right? Like, what are some actions,
micro actions that they can take themselves, that they can then perforate throughout the organization, top to bottom.
And they came up with the 50 micro actions for
day to day inclusion to aspire equity and inclusion
in the workplace. And they're broken down, we
broke them down into five categories general communications, team meetings, outings and offsites project
delegation, and one on ones. So these are really
as simple as taking into account accessibility at an off site location, being mindful of all holidays
that people on your team might be observing, and
making people prioritize feel prioritized in check
in. So hey, Jackie, before we get into business,
I remember you mentioned that your mother was
having some back problems, like, how's she doing?
Really micro actions? Like micro is a really important
part of that. It's stuff that I think a lot of
us were raised to do, but sometimes gets lost
right, in the rigor of work. And this is just
really, again, accessible ways to make people
feel included. And I think a lot of folks would
be surprised how long away that it goes to create
that space and to create that feeling. There's
really just no barrier to entry when it comes
to fostering inclusion. It's as tangible as it
is accessible. And while dei budgets are addressing
the really critical needs like staffing and resources,
micro actions are an effort that don't impact
that budget. And introducing inclusive practices
to the workplace in the form of microactions really does a great job of
ensuing that. Dei is built into the DNA of the
organization from the ground up. And not just
the organization, your team. Right. I think we've
heard time and time again in some of our employee
surveys how important the team culture really
is. It's one thing to sort of see something at
an organizational level, but if you're not feeling
that every day, day to day, to the people that
you're closest with, you're going to notice that.
And that's why it's so powerful when it's there
at the team level.
JACKIE: Absolutely. I'm so in love with these
micro actions because sometimes when you think
about all of the things that are required for
diversity, equity and inclusion in a workplace,
it feels overwhelming. And so these micro actions,
these things that we can do as individuals immediately,
right. There's no prep. It's really just about
thinking through how to make people feel and sure
that they feel included and valued in the workplace.
And I think that's so great. Thanks for sharing
those. Kai, you've been in Dei for a number of
years. From your perspective, how has it evolved?
KAI: Yeah, I mean, it's been great to see it evolve
from being just a part of one person's job. My
very first Dei role was actually with the American
Advertising Federation as a program manager for
their Mosaic Center, which is where all of their
Dei focused programming sits. And I got to work
with folks who some of those early pioneers who
had the diversity word in their job title, but
also just a lot of leaders who just had taken
it upon themselves to extend the work that they
do, to extend the budget that they have to include
this really important work. So I feel like that
was sort of early days. Now I think from there,
it kind of moved on. And this is still the case
for some folks where you got one person who's doing the work. And
again, that's not something that doesn't still happen. But I think Densu's approach is something that really attracted
me to the organization. And like I mentioned before, we
have disciplinary leads. We also have regional
leads across the globe because Dei means something
different in every market and then the structure
in the US. Like I mentioned, we have our Chief
Equity officer, Christina Pyle. They're at the
center with her team, and they empower and arm
each one of us, us being the leads across the
service lines. Like myself, I'm in Densu Media. I have counterparts in Densu
Creative and Merkel, and each one of us have small
teams that get to bring this work to life within each parts of the business.
JACKIE: Awesome. And Ty, you have spent a number
of years in media, so you're no doubt aware of
the many missteps that have been made and messages
that have marginalized and made many of us feel
invisible. What are some of the best practices
for listeners in the media space on getting their
messaging right?
KAI: Yeah, you absolutely have to prioritize investment
in minority owned media. At Densu, we do this
with a practice we call economic impairment. And
Densu's Economic impairment practice is taking
a client by client approach to reshaping investment
strategies to include more diverse owned media.
And it really allows us and our clients to invest
in and partner with these organizations who have
the audience and know how to authentically connect.
We know how important it is to be listening and
working with these partners to guide clients in
engaging with diverse audiences correctly and
authentically, because we know what it looks like,
right? When that doesn't happen. And when we're
thinking about building relationships with diverse
owned media companies, we're doing that from the
ground up in order to offer our clients a first
look at some of the best investment opportunities
in the space. It allows our clients to invest
at scale and placing an emphasis on education
and future focused equity. And it also combats
long term inequities as part of our larger mission
for being a leader in good. I'd love to cite an
example, our Gia Peppers series. It's really a
prime example of elevating diverse voices through
this. It's an award winning series that we have
now, now in season three. I'm really excited to
say we created in collaboration with One Solution,
a division of Urban One, and it's really a first
of its kind audio series. It's born out of a desire
to not only respond to the inequities we see in the advertising supply
chain, but also provide an opportunity for densu clients to leverage a new consumer
engagement model, one that really avoids the intrusiveness
of traditional advertising by co creating and
supporting content that people care about. The
National Association of Blackowned Broadcasters, as well as several other CEOs lent their support in providing guidance
to ensure everything about the series was authentic
and meaningful for sustained impact. So that's something we're just we're really proud of and was a
way that we were sort of able to take this intention
and really bring it to life.
JACKIE: Wow, that's wonderful. That's very exciting. It's so important to amplify voices of more people. So often you
don't get to hear those perspectives, especially
if you're in environments that are not diverse.
And so being able to hear those perspectives is
so important. That's really fantastic. Really fantastic. A lot of organizations are quietly disinvesting in their previous
dei commitments for various reasons. One, the
economy is starting to shift, right? And so people
are getting tighter on their budgets. Another
is it feels like to some that we're moving through
the racial injustice portion of this whole pandemic
and issues with systemic racism, which we're not.
But it feels like, because it's not in the news
every day like it was in mid 2020, that there's
a shift in what employees are expecting. Although
that's not true. Why should organizations be renewing
their commitments to dei and not reducing them?
KAI: Yeah, we're all contending with economic volatility, conservative weaponizing of DEI, and an
election year which can all all of this can stifle
momentum and take us back where we started if
we don't stay vigilant. We've had some good years
and made some strides, but we know from just recent
history I won't even say history like recent history, that that progress can disappear before we know it, we've got
a larger looming sense of economic uncertainty
and what we're seeing, even with our tech partners,
is a cautionary tale. In the past, EI has been
funded in good times, but in challenging times
is when we really need to be investing in it the
most. McKinsey also just released some startling
research just this past fall that women and women
leaders are switching jobs at the highest rates
ever seen. They're looking for flexibility, they're
looking for recognition, balance, and they're
not as accepting of the ways of working that we
accepted as the norms just a few years ago. So
including institutionalized practices that have
kept them from reaching the top roles. We're excited
to be partnering with Google this year on a Women
in Media summit to bring a lot of that to light
and to tackle these headwinds and explore how
we as an industry can really lead the change we
need to enact.
JACKIE: That's fantastic. Thanks for sharing that.
That is one of the things that's so true. It's
when things start to get tight. Dei is one of
the first things that people look at reducing
that budget. And you shouldn't, because the way
that your employees and prospective employees
are thinking about culture, you need to make sure
that you have that right culture so that you can
retain your employees. Because if they start moving
away, jumping ship, you're going to find your
business is going to suffer.
KAI: Yeah. And you'll find that the client demand
for representation diversity on their teams is
not changing.
JACKIE: That's right.
KAI: It's still there. So that has to be kept
front of mind.
JACKIE: Absolutely. Kai, what do leaders often get wrong
about dei and what advice can you offer?
KAI: I would say this work can't be done by only
one lead or someone splitting their time or by volunteers. It's a job that to be
done successfully requires a seat at your leadership
table and a team to support that person. Don't
rely on your business resource groups or your
employee resource groups to get this work done.
These folks, they join BRGS or ERGs as volunteers.
They have a whole other jobs with clients demanding
their time. So we don't want real critical dei
work to be an afterthought or a volunteer side
job. Don't treat it like that. Dei requires a
full time commitment to power this work and it
requires subject matter expertise.
JACKIE: Absolutely.
KAI: So it probably has to be treated with that
respect.
JACKIE: That makes sense. And you're right that's
one of the things that people very often get wrong
is making it a part of someone's job or making
it a volunteer committee or having it roll deep
into the HR function rather than having a direct
line to that C suite. And that's so important
in order to ensure that there is buy in across
the whole organization and that you have the resources
that you need to successfully shift that culture.
And that's so important. Absolutely. Kai, flipping
that coin, what advice would you give to practitioners
in the space for the upcoming year? How do they
continue to move forward even though those budgets are constrained and people leaders, rather,
are focusing on other initiatives and the bottom
line of their organization?
KAI: Don't pull back in the tough times. You're
only going to be making up for it again. And my
mentors, who've been at this for longer, will
support me on that and hear here and amen that
because they've been through it themselves. And
like I mentioned, the client demand for diverse
teams isn't going to change. Remind your leaders
of that. Hold yourself accountable with transparency.
Share your progress, share the setbacks with your
people and beyond. Publicly report and commit
to that work and then think about the top of your
organization. I think there's so many great resources
and programs that help us focus on junior talent,
but I think it's just so incredibly important
and it's more work. I get it. But to put in the
time and investment, to hire leaders of color
at every opportunity?
JACKIE: Absolutely. When we first started our
conversation, you talked about being the only
or one of a few. Talk a little about what that
experience is like, navigating a career and what
advice do you give for others who are the only
or one of a few? I love that.
KAI: I mean, I think when you find yourself in
that room, don't get lost in being that only or
one of few. Right. I think it's so important to
make it about being in that room and using that
voice. I think it can feel intimidating. You can
get in your own way sometimes. You can get mad,
and that's also getting in your own way. But what
can you do in this moment? And maybe it's a moment,
maybe it's a monthly meeting to create the change
that you want to see. How can you you've been led into this room and that's meaningful. There's trust there, there's faith
there. So how are you going to use this platform,
this opportunity, this moment, these ears to create
the change that is so integral and necessary to
make that room look different?
JACKIE: Absolutely. And then I always like to
ask the flip side of the question, right? So how
can leaders who are prioritizing diversity, equity
and inclusion, but maybe only have that one diverse
person in that room, or maybe a couple, how do
they create environments of inclusion and environments
where those individuals feel like they can contribute
and feel valued and feel safe?
KAI: Yeah, I mean, that makes me want to go back
to the micro actions, right. The micro actions
of inclusion. How are you relationship building,
right? Like, how are you creating that connection
and that trust? And I think things as small as
micro actions, remembering what someone's working
on or is going on in their life that maybe they
shared or putting their name in for a new project
or stretch opportunity, those are ways that you can demonstrate that commitment to support and growth
for that person. That can lead to so much more
for when that person, who's the only one in that
room who feels like, who's going to follow me?
Like, who believes in me, you'd be surprised some
time demonstrating that intention of inclusion.
I believe in you. I value you, and I want to work
with you is incredibly powerful. And again, that's
why we call them micro actions. It doesn't have
to be scary.
JACKIE: Absolutely. And then let's talk a little
kai about mentorship. So when you find that you're
one of the only right? Or one of a few, how do
you look at finding a mentor either within the
organization or externally? And what is your advice
there for how to cultivate that relationship?
KAI: Yeah, no, that's great. I think a lot of
organizations really work to have mentorship programs
in place. I think the hallmark of really good
ones are ones that help you sort of navigate your
organization and talk to people and connect with
people, like, way outside of your reporting lines.
We launched a program in Densu Media called Densu
Guys that does just that where we're connecting
some of our bypock talent with leaders who are
just in another part of the organization. Because
I think one of the things that is common for people,
really, as they start to approach sort of mid
career, is I'm not sure if what I'm doing right
now is what I want to be doing right. And I think
this is probably true of lots of large organizations
where people feel siloed, and maybe the thing
I want to do is here, but I don't know how to
get there, and I don't know who those people are.
So I think looking for whether it's existing programming
or other opportunities to connect with mentors
who, if you're looking in the organization, are
in it, but elsewhere. And even if you're happy
in your role, there's so much to be gained from
another perspective, another career path that
I think is really powerful and also start thinking
about is this meant to someone who can also be
a sponsor for me who's bringing my voice up or
my name up in rooms that I'm not in yet and really
advocating for me and putting me forward and singing
my praise. And I think that's also something that's
incredibly powerful if you're looking for a mentor outside the organization. And also, I'm
not saying one or the other have as many mentors
as you can get. I have a wonderful army behind
me. I think there's a better term. I think it's
like your board or something. And your board can
be made up of people who are just mentors right.
And not sponsors, or just sponsors and not necessarily
mentors, but these are all people who are invested
in you and also be ready to do the work. Chase
these folks.
JACKIE: Absolutely. That's so great. I love it.
The board, right? We all need a board in our life.
And I really liked, Kai, that you talked about
finding a mentor in another part of the business
because it allows for different perspectives.
Right. And I agree with the term siloed, and certainly
we can get siloed in our own departments with
people who do the same type of work who think
like us because they're doing that same type of
work. Right. And getting that voice from outside
of that department or even that part of the country.
Right. To get an additional voice that can help
you think about things differently, more holistically,
I think is a great idea. So I love that. I love
that.
KAI: Absolutely. And the other thing I would just
add to that also is like, don't be afraid of mentors
who and afraid is probably too strong a word,
but who are not like you. Right. I shouldn't say
still, there is so much value in your board being
diverse and inclusive.
JACKIE: Absolutely. Right. Because they push your
thinking.
KAI: Exactly.
JACKIE: And that's so important. That's such great
advice. Great advice. Kai, tell me something that
inspires you when you're pushing through a tough
week or just trying to get through difficult time
or an exhausting time, what are some of the things
that inspire you?
KAI: I think, like, leaders who have like who
have changed what leadership looks like. I think
the way we work has changed so dramatically. But
I have some mentors who really like and they're
not I mean, some of them are mentors, actual mentors.
Some of them are people I look up to and they
don't know that they're my mentors. You might not even know each other.
But people whose approach to leadership they've
made all their own, they're not mimicking something
that a boss that they've had in the past or a
picture of what leadership is.
JACKIE: Right.
KAI: Like, this is the way I command a room. This
is the way I engage with people. This is what
my output looks like. I think that as I've grown
in my career, I've gotten really sort of stuck
in that I don't really behave like a leader behaves
and I'm not presenting in this certain way. And
don't get me wrong, there are standards, right? Like executive presence is still very important. Like
good writing. All of these things are not these
long term. I think set standards are not for nothing.
But I still think that there is a way that you
can bring yourself and do it your own way. And
I think that when I find myself doubting myself
a lot, it's because I'm not valuing my own approach.
And I've had enough people tell me that the approach
that I have is valuable, is meaningful, is impactful,
that I just need to believe it, which I think
we can all relate to.
JACKIE: Absolutely. And then kind of tell me when
you're feeling that way. Right. Because you're
right, we've all felt that. When you're feeling
like you're undervaluing your own approach, what
pulls you out of that?
KAI: I think my people I have a great network
of friends at work, colleagues at work, friends
at home, personal friends, my husband who are
all always there to hype me. And that's so important.
My friend and the personal network, the people
that I choose to spend time with. I really trust
them. I'm really proud that they all have they're
a very diverse and inclusive board themselves,
and I like to surround myself with people who
have, like, experience and also have completely different experience and walks of life. And I think
that also makes it so that when they are pulling
me back on my feet, they all have different reasons
for doing so. Right. I guess the commonality is
that they all love me.
JACKIE: Right.
KAI: But I really appreciate that they're coming
from different places to do that. So that is what
pulls me out, makes me feel good again.
JACKIE: That's fantastic. And Kai, before we begin
to wrap up, tell me a little about you outside.
We've talked about all the amazing things that
you're doing at Densu and Dei perspectives. Tell
me about you outside of what you do professionally.
KAI: Well, I mentioned synchronized swimming is
a huge part of my life now. Since moving to New
York, there aren't quite as many pools, but I've found there's what you
call, like, masters sports, which is just, like,
what we all do when we get older. And we were
never, like, Olympic or professional bound athletes,
but we want to go back to that joy. I've swam with a number of masters programs
just sort of to keep that in my life. The sport is actually now referred to
as artistic swimming, and USA Artistic Swimming tasked me to be a part of
a Dei committee that they were pulling together
to see how can we get more people of different
backgrounds into the sport, which I really commend
and I think is really powerful. And it's been
great to see the sport become more diverse and also more accessible as well for young disabled swimmers, because I think
I learned so much of I'll call it poise coming
into, again, like, coming into those rooms where
you're one of few or one of only. And I sort of
think of that as, like, all right, it's, like,
time to compete. When you see, like, the gymnast,
I think more people watch gymnastics than artistic
swimming. So I'll compare to that. There's that
moment where they roll their shoulders back and
the chin pops up, and they just go and you're
not really sure what they're feeling because you're just, like, ready. You're ready to present. You're
ready to perform. I call back on that when I have
those growth moments. Right. So anyway, that's
that. Otherwise, I watch a lot of sports. My husband
is a DC sports person. That's, you know, that's
not an easy way to live. It's choice, and I try
to support him in those endeavors, and I've started
crocheting. Yeah. Just got to get to keep those
hands busy, right? Yeah.
JACKIE: I love that. That is fantastic. Thanks
for sharing that guy.
KAI: Yeah.
JACKIE: Kai, what's the message that you want
to leave our listeners with today?
KAI: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's okay if. You feel
like you're in a situation where there isn't manpower
or you don't have the time to do the thing. And
the thing in this case is diversity, equity and
inclusion. There's other ways you can start right
now. We talked about micro actions, other ways
that you can build an inclusive culture. Partnering
with industry organizations on talent acquisition
could be a great way to connect with more diverse
talent, whether it's for that recruitment purpose
or bringing new discussions into the organization.
JACKIE: Awesome.
KAI: Yeah.
JACKIE: And then how can people learn more about you Kai and more about your work? Yeah.
KAI: I would say LinkedIn is definitely the best
place, so please feel free to catch me there.
JACKIE: Awesome. Kai, thank you so much for spending
some time with me today and for the amazing insights
that you shared. I appreciate it and so excited
to have this opportunity to get to talk to you.
KAI: Thank you, Jackie. Likewise. It was great.
JACKIE: Thanks for joining me for this episode.
Please take a moment to subscribe and review this
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Become a part of our community on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. This show was
edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Join us for
our next episode of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox.
Take care of yourself and each other.