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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen pulls from over 25
years of small group ministry experience
to encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Derek Olson: Welcome to SG squared,
Steve g Gladden on small groups.
Derek here with the man of the Hour who's
got a little bit of a cold, so we're
gonna make this the shortest episode ever.
Steve g Gladden, how are
you hanging in my friend.
Steve Gladen: Oh, dude, I tell you,
between the two of us, man, we, we
couldn't be further away geographically,
but battling the same thing in both
our households and it's just like,
uh, you know, but it is the flu and
rainy season as I'm looking outside
my window and it's 80 degrees out.
Um, I don't know how that all works
together, but man, it's, it's a
Derek Olson: 80 degrees.
Steve Gladen: got a great show.
We got an important show for people.
Derek Olson: Okay.
That just kinda was like
a slap across the face.
80 degrees.
You're kind of feeling miserable.
I just got over the
sickness, which was bad.
But guess how?
Guess the, guess what the temperature
here is in the Seattle area.
Steve Gladen: Oh, well it's probably rain.
Derek Olson: It's like 39.
Steve Gladen: Oh gosh.
Derek Olson: it's freezing.
Steve Gladen: Oh, well, I'm gonna go
sit outside in the sun after this.
Derek Olson: So, uh, thanks for jumping
on despite the health challenges.
I should say though, on
video, you look pretty good.
Steve Gladen: Oh, thank you, sir.
Thank you.
It's, uh, it, it's amazing.
I mean, the, the COVID thing too,
because, uh, what's on below my
shirt is, uh, just, uh, just stuff.
Derek Olson: I, I also, uh, imagine
you're feeling decent because you guys
didn't have a loss last week because the
great Ohio State Buckeye were on a buy.
So, uh,
Steve Gladen: You
Derek Olson: yeah.
Steve Gladen: it was a
little lonely though.
It was a little lonely.
It's like, what do, what, what do I watch?
What do I do?
And stuff like that.
So, but I, I did watch the two teams.
We did beat, I watched
the Alini Washington game.
Derek Olson: Yep.
Oh, thanks a lot.
Yeah.
At least we got a win, uh,
at home versus I Illinois.
And, uh,
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Derek Olson: so this week we're
on a buy, but we are talking about
five ways to lead effectively.
I love that title.
And just a minute we're gonna
jump in here, but, uh, I have to
ask you one more thing, Steve.
Has the construction zone gotten
any better there, uh, since you're,
you moved into the new place?
Steve Gladen: Finally it is we are
waiting on one piece of glass to
finish the fireplace off and maybe like
two or three nickel and dime things
that the contractors need to finish.
we will bring to conclusion what started
March 1st, 2025 and is we're gonna finish.
What are we in?
We're almost into November 1st,
so yeah, it's been a, it's been
a run, it's been a crazy run.
But let me, uh, let me tee up the,
the segment though, if I could.
Good.
So we are talking about five ways to lead
effectively, and one of the things that,
uh, we have noticed, and one of the things
why we wanted to address this on the show
was that so often, um, we lead people.
We lead people in groups, we
lead the infrastructure that,
that oversees the groups.
We may be leading on a staff, leading
in our home, leading with friends.
And these five things are so
transferable that it's super
important that we wanted to adjust.
We wanted to not adjust.
We went to, um, oh my gosh, what's
Derek Olson: up.
Uh, promote.
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Yeah.
Well not promote.
Derek Olson: Share.
Steve Gladen: to,
this is why you can't be on medicine
while you're doing these shows.
Derek Olson: Steve's a little high.
No, I'm kidding.
Steve Gladen: yeah.
But we, we wanted to, uh,
Derek Olson: Dissect.
Steve Gladen: uh.
Yeah, sure enough.
But we wanted to go over these
five things with you because it's
really important from any aspect
of, um, how you're gonna be leading
in the various forms that you do.
They're very transferable.
They're very helpful,
I think, to remind us.
Most of 'em, I think you're
gonna know and you're gonna say,
oh, yeah, yeah, makes sense.
But often what happens
is, is that we don't.
We slip into a rut, we
don't get 'em taken care of.
And, uh, I we just wanna bring these five
things back to the front part of your
brain so that you're remembering 'em and
you'll be the best leader that you can be.
Derek Olson: So here we go.
Number one, lead with purpose.
Break that down for us, Steve.
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Um.
of the things people have to know
why they're doing what they're doing.
The why always determines how long and
when people know their purpose, when
they know why they exist on this planet,
when they know why they exist in their
working relationship with you, when they
know why they exist in your home life.
When people don't understand why they,
why they exist in a different area.
Their longevity will, will increase.
And, and part of what I would
just encourage you with your
team and your small groups is
helping them know their purpose.
So often we don't know what success is.
We don't know what God's looking for.
And the more you can do that, the
more you can help their engagement
go deeper and stronger when they
understand what their purpose is.
Derek Olson: So good because in
ministry it's so easy to just
get into the weekly routine of.
Their weekend, another service, you know?
And all that takes so
much time and energy.
Um, so it's critical to find that time
to carve out, to just step back and
make sure you know your vision so you
can point people to lead with purpose.
And I love how you said that,
know why their work matters.
'cause that's when engagement skyrockets.
It's so true.
Well, well said.
Okay.
And that brings us to big number two.
Which is build trust.
Steve Gladen: Yeah, psychological
safety is a real buzzword in the
workplace, and part of it is, uh, having
a safe environment that can be there.
And what's important
to understand is that.
You, you as a person that is
leading, is always wanting to help
speak truth into people's lives.
the only way you can speak truth is if
they trust you and the only way they
can trust you is if you spend time.
And so what I would encourage you on
this one is the more time you can spend
being real, kinda like Derek and I were
just doing when we couldn't figure out
what word I was trying to think of.
And, uh, we, we still moved on.
It was just, you know, it's just.
The situation that we're in,
but building trust has more, um.
More components to it than just,
you know, saying, trust me.
Or thinking that because they spend
time with you that they will trust you.
It is a part of having memories,
uh, situations when you go
through the battle together.
Uh, when you do ministry together, what
you find is that you build trust when
you, uh, make all these memories together.
And so what I would encourage you to
do is be thinking through, is that.
The more time you can spend with your
team, the more time you can spend
with your small group, time you can
just spend with your family for all
that matters, the more trust you're
gonna build with them because you're,
you're, you're building credits up.
'cause every time you spend time with
them, you're gonna have situations
where there's opportunity for you
to help build trust with them.
really important that
you see that in a leader.
Derek Olson: I think this key
point is so important, build trust.
When I look back on my
ministry experiences, um.
When, when you could feel like you
trusted your senior leader or pastor.
You know, you just, I think
I was there longer, right?
When you felt like you could trust
someone that they had your back, you'd
even stay there for less money longer
because you felt like you belong.
You know, you felt like
you had something going on.
And, uh, I think that's one of
the biggest reasons for turn
turnover maybe in ministry.
Is, um, just a lack of trust, which
comes from a lack of relationship.
'cause again, we can just be so busy
in the dog eat dog, week to week world.
Good.
Good point there.
Build trust.
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Derek Olson: Okay, number
three, develop your people.
Break that down.
Steve Gladen: So the more you
develop your, your people and who God
designed them to be, the the higher
the retention rate is gonna be.
what I wanna do on this one is
being able to say how you're
going to develop the people.
one of the things we talk
about is whenever you have an
opportunity, you're gonna gra gradu.
Gra boy, you can tell this is a.
Whenever you have an opportunity, you're
gonna gravitate to one of two things.
You're either gonna take the risk or
you're gonna be paralyzed by fear.
what happens in people not developing
is you give them too big of a step that
causes them not to take the risk, but
causes them to get paralyzed by fear.
And when they don't take, take
the the risk step and they are
paralyzed by fear, they won't grow.
And when they don't grow, then they
don't have a great retention rate.
part of your job is trying to think
what opportunities can I give them
where the risk is palatable enough
that they'll be successful, so that it
will build their faith so that when the
next opportunity comes around, you are,
you're able to make, make the risk.
A little bit harder and
they'll be able to take it.
we talk a lot about this
in the life of David.
Uh, God's first assignment to David,
his first opportunity, uh, this
is the man after God's own heart.
His first opportunity was
10 sheep in first Samuel 17.
He tended sheep.
It built his faith.
And then the next opportunity
was a bear comes into the camp.
He takes the, the risk, he kills
the bear, it builds his faith.
And then the next opportunity is a
lion comes in he takes the risk, he
kills the lion, builds his faith.
The next opportunity comes along.
This is one Goliath is there.
He takes Goliath, he kills Goliath.
He's a teenager, so it cuts his head
off and you know, does teenager things.
Um, and it builds his faith and
it leads up to the moment when God
moved David from pastoring sheep.
Pastoring the Nation of Israel in
Psalm 78 70 through 72, and because
he was developed, he was able to
develop into the leader that led the
nation 'cause of the skill of his
hands and the integrity of his heart.
And in the same way, this whole
point is about asking how are
you developing your people?
Are you putting them in circumstances
where they can be stretched a little?
We always call these crawl, walk, run.
When they're taking a risk,
is it, is it at a crawl level?
Is it at a walk level?
Is that a run level?
Because you're, how you develop them in.
The type of risk you put them in
front of, you wanna make sure that
they can be successful at it so it
can build their faith so you can
challenge 'em just a little bit more.
if you don't do that the right
way, what happens is fear paralyzes
'em and they get set back and it's
just harder to develop people and
get them to get back on the horse.
So it's a great opportunity that
if you wanna lead people well, you
gotta know how to develop people.
Derek Olson: Well said.
I like that quote.
Investment signals long-term value.
Really good.
Okay, on the number four,
which is Celebrate the Wins.
I love this one.
Break it down.
Steve Gladen: Yeah, I mean, this
is just talking about recognition.
I mean, uh, people love to be
recognized for all different types of
things, and so part of what this is
all about is, you know, so often we
go from hill to hill to hill to hill.
we don't take time to celebrate.
And one of the things you see in the
Old Testament is they, they had to put
monuments up all the time to remind
the nation of Israel of the great
accomplishments that God did with them.
And in the same way, what can
happen is that we do the same thing.
And what I would encourage you, as
you're leading your team, as you're
leading your small group, take
time to celebrate wins with them.
Because when you celebrate
the wins, everybody wins.
And it's also a good opportunity for you
to really kind of cement that, that win
that you're celebrating into the lore of
your small group, the lore of your team.
And what happens is.
you start to build a culture
of people wanting to, uh, help
remind you of the wins that you
did or they can participate in it.
But the great thing is, is that
there are wins all the time.
And what you have to do is, you know,
have the celebration because there's
enough things that knock you down.
Derek Olson: Well said, and I think
this is, uh, celebrating wins.
You can so easily, um, add this into
different parts of your ministry.
Like, I remember when we would do
small group leader training, you
know, a couple times a year, you know,
you're providing a free lunch and you
got all your small group leaders and
you're obviously gonna train them.
But we'd always start out.
While we're eating, we'd open it
up for the first 30 plus minutes,
uh, to celebrate the wins.
And when doing this, you kind of always
want to start it off and have one ready
to, you know, give, give us an example.
But once the ball gets rolling, man,
everybody wants to share something cool.
God did to change life.
Steve Gladen: Um,
Derek Olson: Um, meeting a need.
And that was just always
felt so contagious.
Wow.
Like, look at what God's doing.
All our work is paying off.
Uh, but unless you share, you just
don't know and hear of all the other
crazy cool things that God did.
So I think that's huge.
Steve Gladen: There's a lot of times when
people remind me about some of the wins,
I'm like going, oh my goodness, I forgot
Derek Olson: Yeah.
Steve Gladen: I forgot about that.
So,
Derek Olson: Number five,
clarify roles and next steps.
Steve Gladen: yeah.
So part of this is being able
to, um, kind of minimize the
confusion that's out there.
And one way to lead a team effectively
is be clear on what their roles
are and what their goals are.
When you're clear about the roles and
the goals, what can happen is, is that
there is clarity for the person to
understand what am I supposed to be doing?
And it will give them confidence
in doing what they're trying to do.
Now, part of that is coming back
around and you gotta work on the,
what we talked about in number
three, developing the person.
Sometimes they have the skill
sets or sometimes you need to help
develop those skill sets in them.
But part of this is being able to say.
People won't naturally understand
maybe what their role is.
That's why when you write it
down, it always helps bring
clarity, but also next steps.
One of the things that you can do for
your team, or what you can do for your
small group is making sure they understand
this is the next step we're trying to do.
just met with all the state reps, with
the small group network, and part of that
is that we gave them next steps at the
end of the call, and part of those next
steps are following up with churches.
And so part of what you wanna do is just.
Clarity always builds confidence, and
so the more clarity you can give 'em,
the more confidence that they'll have to
do the things that you want 'em to do.
But you gotta be clear on the roles and
clear on the goals, and also be a good
enough leader that you can see, hey, maybe
do I need to develop some things that they
may be floundering at or struggling with.
Derek Olson: Be clear on the
roles and clear on the goals.
I like that.
Well, that is the five ways to lead
effectively, and, um, there is your
five step masterclass to get it going.
Steve, any uh, closing thoughts
before we call it a day?
Steve Gladen: Well, if I could
think 'em through, uh, that, but no.
Again, just to to recap for you, you
know, you wanna lead with purpose.
You wanna build the trust, you
wanna develop your people, you wanna
celebrate the wins and clarify the
goal, the roles, and the next steps.
so as you're doing that, just remember you
are, you've been called to lead a team.
You've been called to lead a group.
You've been called to lead your family.
And so do it the most
effective way as possible.
And these five things will definitely
be keys to helping that success happen.
Derek Olson: Well, well said.
Well, uh, Steve, thanks for jumping
on despite, uh, how you're feeling.
And, uh, thanks to
everybody else for jumping.
On the podcast and giving it a listen.
Uh, hey, do us a favor and, uh,
make sure you're subscribing,
uh, to this podcast from wherever
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And if you're on Spotify, give
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algorithms and reach more people.
And, uh, our prayers at this
podcast, uh, en encouraged you and
equips you to lead better groups.
So, until next time, thanks so much.
Steve Gladen: See you later guys.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!