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This podcast offers business solutions to help listeners develop and implement action plans for lean process improvement and implement continuous improvement projects, cost reductions, product quality enhancements, and process effectiveness improvement. Listeners come from many industries in both manufacturing and office applications.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 00:04
How do you define empathy in the context of lean, transformational I think
Lindsay Shababy 00:10
first defining empathy, it's really, you know, seeing the world through someone else's eyes. And in healthcare that's really especially important, because we're often seeing patients and people on sometimes the worst day of their life. When we talk about empathy in Lean transformation in healthcare, you know, it's not just about being nice. It's not just about, you know, understanding what they're feeling. It's also about being curious, present, you know, building trust.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 00:51
Hello and welcome to the Lean solutions podcast, where I am the only host today. I'm very excited, however, to be here with you, we have a great guest coming on. But as we get started, I want you to think about something here. When you think about healthcare, what comes to mind for some it might be insurance. It might be Medicare. For others, it might be procedures that you've gone through. For some of us, it might be what you remember about the last time you were there in the clinic or in the hospital or whatever you might remember, the order you might remember the process that you went through to go through it. What a lot of us that are not in the healthcare field, though, fail to see is some of the, what could you say firefighting, some of the the way healthcare is is constantly responding to emergencies, because that's what it's about, managing shortages, working on the different schedules, you know, trying to do more with less and and the great thing about this environment is that lean methodology promises relief, right? You can think of standard processes. You can think of reducing waste, improving efficiency. But what is, what can be too easily missed when it comes to lean in healthcare, is that you can have the best methodology and tools in mind in the whole world, in fact, but if you don't address the human element, the fears, the fatigue, the feeling of being overwhelmed your transformation efforts are going to hit a wall. Well, today, I'm talking with Lindy, sorry, Lindsay, SHA baby, about an important piece that can make or break your lean initiatives, and this is leading with empathy while still driving accountability and results that healthcare desperately needs. So Lindsay is founder of the summit performance solutions, a consulting firm that helps healthcare leaders build sustainable systems and cultures of improvement without adding more to their already overburdened teams. With over a decade of experience in healthcare and operations and a background in military, Lindsay brings practical, excuse me, practical, disciplined approaches to solving reoccurring challenges in complex clinical environments, a master lean, Six Sigma Black Belt and a Master of Health Administration. Lindsay has led initiatives across hospitals, specialty clinics and system level functions, driving over $15 million in measurable impact. Now her mission is to make lean and continuous improvement simple and approachable for healthcare professionals who don't have time for the complex tools, the confusing terminology or the disconnected frameworks. Lindsay specializes in operational stability, daily management systems and leadership development, where she helps healthcare teams get out of constant firefighting and build a foundation for long term performance and Patient Care Excellence. That was a lot. Thank you so much for joining me here today.
Lindsay Shababy 03:59
Yes, thank you so much for having me. Shane, I'm excited to be here. So
Shayne Daughenbaugh 04:04
I want, I want to know how did, how did you get started with all of this? Like, you know, you're, you're merging two complimentary, but interestingly different things, you know, continuous improvement and healthcare. What started first getting a continuous improvement or in healthcare?
Lindsay Shababy 04:21
Good question. So I was in the army for about eight years, and so I think it started more as continuous improvement. You know, being in the military, we all know the government is known for efficiency. So, you know, we would do certain things, or we would, you know, be in certain places. And in my brain, it was always, there's got to be a better way to do this. Or, why are we doing it this way? You know, why are we showing up to draw our weapons at Four. Am when we're not getting to the range, it until nine. You know, it's, it's what is the process behind us, or the thought process? And so that really kind of sparked my interest in continuous improvement in the first place. And once I transitioned out of the military, I got into healthcare, and I had really that same mindset, I guess of you know, there's got to be a better way to do this. How can we make things easier for ourselves better for the patients? And so I started in healthcare at a community hospital that really wanted to improve their stroke and STEMI times, they were looking to get their joint commission certification as a primary stroke center. But the issue was that they were really starting at the bottom. They didn't have a lot to go on, and so we had build out a lot of those systems, and that really ignited my passion for healthcare, or for continuous improvement in healthcare. Really, how can we make the care that we're giving our patients the best we can without? You know, using a lot of resources healthcare, there's a lot of nonprofit healthcare organizations out there, and so it's how can we give the best care while maintaining operational efficiency, financial efficiency, so we can put our resources back into continuing to develop in that aspect?
Shayne Daughenbaugh 06:39
Right? Awesome. Awesome. Was this a kind of a long transition, or did you just jump right into after the military just jumped right into it and found, hey, this is my sweet spot. You know, fantastic. Here
Lindsay Shababy 06:51
we go. Good question. Yeah, because it is very they're kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum, a little bit and so
Shayne Daughenbaugh 07:01
a little bit,
Lindsay Shababy 07:04
well, I've always actually been interested in healthcare, the military, you know, obviously took a little bit of a turn in that aspect, but I wanted to come back to healthcare. I've always loved it. I've always had a passion for it. And once I got in it, you know, that was really the trajectory that I took and so worked through, you know, on a in a bunch of different healthcare systems, saw a lot of different operational environments, did clinic management, operations management, and then eventually got into pi, the PI department, very specifically, and rose to be a leader in that department, which was fantastic. So,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 07:53
awesome, awesome. So in working with with this, I guess, I guess you could say high pressure. It's kind of a high pressure environment, like there's a lot going on at sometimes, literally, life or death. Yes, yes, you know. And working with with this, you know, and you mentioned words like efficiency, you know, whether it be financial, you know business. You know quality and how you're serving. You know your your patients, and those kind of things. How do you you know the topic about today isn't just about, hey, what are the tools you're using in healthcare? But most importantly, the topic is, is couched in this idea of of empathy. How do you define empathy in the context of Lean transformation? What? How? Yeah. What does empathy look like for you? Lindsay, absolutely.
Lindsay Shababy 08:44
So, you know, I think first defining empathy, it's really, you know, seeing the world through someone else's eyes, really understanding their day, their stresses, their their reality. And in healthcare, that's really especially important, because we're often seeing patients and people on sometimes the worst day of their life, especially, you know, if they have some sort of acute thing that has happened to them. But we've also got teams that are taking care of them that are dealing with chronic burnout, shifting priorities and often systems that seem to be working against them. So when we talk about empathy in Lean transformation in healthcare, you know, it's not just about being nice. It's not just about, you know, understanding what they're feeling. It's also about being curious, present, you know, building trust,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 09:48
right? Yeah, I really, I really like that. I'm writing that down, that it's, it's more than nice. I think you mentioned, I thought. Heard the word building trust, you know, and understanding where people are. And I think you started that very interestingly, in that part of it is trying to get into the mindset, what are people experiencing? And I have to think, Lindsay, there could be two things you're wanting to know, hey, what's the client? What's the patient? Those that were with that we're serving. What is their experience? What is their day like? What have they kind of, what is their journey? But also from the PI perspective, I would imagine that you're also looking at the healthcare workers and trying to, and you mentioned, you know, systems that that seem like they're working against, you, you know, and those kind of things, is, is it a fairly easy balance to to keep those, both of those, in mind, or is that something that you have to walk a fine line when you're working with teams, to try to balance, hey, we want the best experience and and having empathy for the patients and clients, but also, you know, those that do the work we want to So how do you how do you is, is that even an issue balancing?
Lindsay Shababy 11:05
I think it is yes, and that is a great question. You know, it it's a tricky balance, as we have to do what's best for our patients, but sometimes that means that for our staff, they have to do things that may not necessarily they want to do, but it's for the good of the patient, because in healthcare, you know that is our main goal is to take care of our patients, right? So the question then becomes, how do we best take care of the people that are taking care of our patients? Right? Right? If we take care of the the people that are taking care of them, then, as a whole, if we take a step back and look at it, you know, big picture that really improves a lot of aspects of healthcare,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 12:05
right? Okay, I can, I can see that. And, you know, as I'm thinking about this, when we're talking about defining empathy in the training that that I got with, with Lean Six Sigma, working for the state of Nebraska, we had, we had a we also tried to define empathy and the difference between empathy and sympathy, and trying to get our, what we called process improvement coordinators, all the, all the PI people that were scattered, you know, embedded in the different agencies, to see the difference, because sympathy says, oh, Lindsay, that really, that's really too bad that you weren't able to do that. I'm sorry that happened. You know, we just leave it like that. But the idea of empathy is wanting to understand like you were mentioning, leaning in with curiosity, but not just leaving you there. And that was the big challenge that we tried to get when I would do training for our green belts, to get them to understand is, hey, don't just, you know, saddle up next to Lindsay and tell her how you you know, you really understand what she's going through, but then ask questions to help move into what some of the solutions might be. So we're not just leaving you there, you know, sympathetically. Oh, that's, you know, too bad that that's happened. I could see why you could be frustrated. But okay, so how do we move over that? So when let's, let's talk about overcoming the resistance. Because people, I've heard it said that people don't mind change, they just don't like it done to
Lindsay Shababy 13:34
them, right? So, yeah, exactly.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 13:37
You know you were talking about taking care of the people that take care of the patients. Yes, how? How can you? Can you give, like a share a time when, when you were able to lead with empathy that made a direct impact with a group that would typically be resistant to some of the changes?
Lindsay Shababy 13:56
Yeah, absolutely. So first, I want to say that kind of going back to your point like sympathy versus empathy. You know, empathy in Lean is about being soft, right? And it's really about truly understanding the daily realities of the frontline teams. And so, you know, when we do things like go to GEMBA, we're really going there to understand those, those complexities, but it's also to create relationships, trusting relationships, because I think that ties into that resistance that we find, and so building that initial, foundational relationship is kind of the first step to overcoming some of that resistance to change when it's coming from someone that they trust, and they've seen that trust in action and. A lot easier to convey some of the changes that might be necessary going forward, but to recall on maybe a time of overcoming resistance. So I was working on a project with a healthcare team, and our goal was to improve, improve patient flow from the ed to the floor. There's a lot that goes on in that process between you know, from communication to making sure you know to logistics to who is doing what, and making sure that each team has the information they need. So it's a small process, but when we look, when we kind of dive down into it, it definitely becomes a lot more complex, because each patient is different, and that's, you know, one of the interesting things about implementing lean in healthcare is there is a lot more variability than, say, something like manufacturing, so we have to account for that. But with that project, you know, it was very nurse driven. There was a lot of hesitation. They had tried and tried a couple times before to do this project over and over again, and so there was a lot of doubt that, you know, oh, we've tried this before. What's going to be different this, right, right? So instead of, you know, leading with the data of, well, it's taking this long to transport a patient from the ed to the floor. It was more in the beginning of really just observing, sitting in on a few shifts, listening to what was actually happening, asking questions of what's getting in your way? You know, what are the challenges or some of the barriers that you are encountering when you go to take a patient from the ed to the floor? And so what we discovered that way is it wasn't, you know, necessarily, a competence gap, or a training gap, or anything like that. There was just a lot of broken communication during the handoffs. There was no loop to once the patient got on the floor. You know, there was no way for the floor nurses to contact the ED nurses to say, Hey, I'm missing these pieces of information that I I need to continue care. And so we learned a lot in that aspect just by listening rather than, here's what the data says, let's fix it, you know, taking a very like objective approach to it. And so I think that went a long way, because, you know, I listened first, and they saw me more as a partner there to work with them, and not necessarily as a disruptor. Oh, hey, I'm from pi. I'm here to completely change everything processes and mess everything up for you, exactly. So, so it was really, we co designed a solution together, rather than me telling them what to do. And I think that small shift, really, you know, chipped away a lot of that change resistance. Okay, so
Shayne Daughenbaugh 18:39
let me ask a question for those that are that are hearing this and are like, Hey, that's not a bad idea. You know, you basically what you mentioned is kind of going to the gemba go to where the work happens. And just just plant yourself and pay attention and ask for those that are interested in this idea. How many people, roughly, would you say that that you are able to connect with? And about how long did this take? Was this something that you just did in one sitting, a half hour and you thought you had it, or did you have multiple sittings? Like, let's just talk about the logistics of this. What this looks like in the real you know, in this example, yeah, could be variable. There's a lot of variation. So, yeah,
Lindsay Shababy 19:26
absolutely. So, like anything, it does take time, you know, you can't build a relationship overnight and or in, you know, half hour observing, right? Because when you walk in, staff is they're going to be a little bit weary of, why are you here? Why are you observing? What are you doing like, especially in the healthcare environment, the you know, you find teams that are very tight knit, and so when everybody else is in school. And you're walking in in business casual, they're like, Oh, someone from administration is here. Oh, we're in trouble. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's Yes, exactly. So, so it's really just getting in. I mean, it took me several days and one that was part of that was really just wanting to observe some of that variation, because you can't go in and see the same process over and over and over again in like an hour time span. Each patient is different, so you want to make sure that you're capturing as much variation as possible. What
Shayne Daughenbaugh 20:39
are some of the questions that you would ask yourself doing this, like just for some for someone to think about
Lindsay Shababy 20:45
Sure, so one of the, I guess the question, or, I guess my mind, it was more of starting to walk through the steps of observing, okay, they have a patient over there. How are they first calling for someone to take the patient to the floor. What are they inputting into the patient's charts? You know, from there, what are the things that the patient needs to take with them? Do they need monitors? Do they need, you know, any devices that are going with them? How do they annotate that into the system, and how do they convey that to the floor nurses? Do they have a phone call? Do they do it over secure chat? Do they, you know, so it's some of those small logistics that are running through my mind of, why are they doing what they do? And that's the nice part about really, what I do is I can walk into healthcare organization and be that outside, those outside eyes, and I can ask, I mean, I'm not clinical. So I've learned a lot over my years, but at the same time, I'm still not clinical, so I kind of have this ability to ask, quote, unquote, the dumb questions, but they're very insightful. Because if you ask someone who does this on a you know, day in and day out to explain their process. Sometimes they can be like, will we do this? And I'm like, Why do you do that? Well, I actually don't really know. Somebody just taught me how to do it. That's how I've been doing it ever since. That's the way we've already done it, right? The key phrase there. So,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 22:42
so in doing this, you're asking questions, you're thinking curiously about things as you're moving through this. You know, we talked at the very beginning, I talked about, you know, kind of the human side of things, the feelings and the fears and, you know, some of that. How do you ensure that that isn't left behind? You know, because you're trying to collect more than just data, you're, you know, you mentioned you're trying to build trust. But as you go through, how do we make sure that we we still hold on to that these are human beings, whether they be the clients or whether they be the people that are taking care of, you know, the patients and serving them.
Lindsay Shababy 23:20
Yeah, great question. So I think we need to start by recognizing that fear of change is normal, that humans don't typically like change. You know, we like our processes. We like our routines, and especially in systems where people have burned out or feel like they've been burned before by failed initiatives. Of we've tried this over and over again that this you know what's different about this time, but I think it's always pairing the tools with intentional conversations too. You know, what does this change mean for your day? What worries you about it here? Here's how it could potentially help you, using the tools, not to guide the projects or guide the initiatives, but using them really just as a supplement to kind of add interesting Okay, yeah, yeah, so. But I think, you know, using things like huddles and visual management to not just for metrics, but for connecting and for recognition and for having some of those feedback loops, I think they all contribute to this idea of a building psychological safety in healthcare. When we build that psychological safety, that's when people feel like they can can. They their their ideas and their thoughts and maybe some of their concerns without repercussions, and that they'll actually be hurt.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 25:10
So so let's talk about the the the other unique balance that you have to have in in working in with continuous improvement, and that is the balance between modeling empathy and wanting to communicate, understanding and curiosity, those kind of things, with driving accountability and results. Yeah, kind of you have to, you have to have both of those, right? Especially, you know, in a hospital, you got to help these people. There's, it's not, it's not a question of, well, I guess we could not do it. So. So, yeah, how do you see leadership? What would be some things you would suggest to leadership in regards to modeling empathy while still holding you know accountability, holding true to accountability and results.
Lindsay Shababy 25:59
So I think one big thing that has been, I guess, powerful or influential in the work that I've done in healthcare is taking the metrics, or taking, you know, our outcomes, and tying them back to patient stories of like, you know, whether it's it's good or it's bad, I think that has been something that health care, people in health care can really latch On to, because, by nature, people in healthcare are very empathetic. They're very, I mean, they're givers, they help people. It's just their nature. And so when we can tie a, you know, oh, we had a patient fall, or our outcomes aren't doing great, sure we can have it just as a number, but if we can say, you know, our outcomes are have decreased, and this is what it means for our patients, this is what it looks like in real life, I think that's easier to digest, and really kind of builds the burning platform a little bit stronger in that we need to do something, we need to change, because over time, if we start to get worse in this outcome, this is what it means for our patients. And not only that, this is what it means for our hospital. And so I think that's very powerful. But in terms of leadership, you know, it continuous improvement starts at the top, and so leadership sets the tone right. You can't delegate culture. You have to build that from the top. So someone write that down. So when leaders are they're visible, they're vulnerable, they're curious and not just outcome focused. I think that's when they really create that space for honest dialog and faster learning, empathy and accountability. They they don't have to be opposites, right? I think that they can, they can have a balance. They can coexist. I mean, some of the best leaders I've worked with, their questions have been, you know, what barriers are getting your in your way, and how can I help remove them? I think that simple question really shows that empathetic sign, but it also has, you know, I want to make things better for you, so we can get better outcomes as well.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 28:51
So I'm curious if you you know, in thinking about kind of the empathy, understanding what people have to go through, but also kind of the accountability and wanting things you mentioned before about, you know, having, taking the things you're you're measuring the metrics you're having is, is there a time that you can think of a situation where the empathy came in with and we, because we've kind of touched on this just a little bit, the empathy comes in with understanding these people are already overworked. The caregivers, you know, that are serving our our clients, are already overworked. So is there a time when it's that you have found that it's okay to let go of something temporarily, maybe, so that you could pick something else up? Because we need to do this. One thing to move forward, you know, Is that making sense? Because there, I think so the empathy being I see that Lindsay's plates already full. I have more things for Lindsay to do, so my empathy comes in and says, Okay, we with accountability. We need to do this. But I can remove this off of Lindsay's plates. So that she can then take this. Can you think of situation stories, and how did you go about that? If you can think of one specifically,
Lindsay Shababy 30:10
sure. So the thing with healthcare is, you know, it's always going 24/7, it doesn't stop we can't shut machines down. We can't, you know, take the day off. We can't do any of that. There's always patients. There's always people to take care of. And so one of the challenges with, I think, implementing Lean and continuous improvement in healthcare is really finding the time. You know, many, many projects I've worked on, we have had to take 12 hour projects and distill them into a four hour time block. We've had to take longer projects and chunk them up into like one hour working increments, and that's just the reality of it. And so I think it's understanding, knowing from kind of the C suite perspective, this is what needs to be done, and these are our goals, and this is these are the outcomes we want to see, balancing that with Well, our floor nurses are burned out. They don't have time for improvement work. We're already short staffed, and so finding kind of the balance in between the two, you know, creating a realistic timeline that we can convey to the executives, taking into account some of the time constraints from the front line.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 31:59
Do you find just, you know, just quick interruption when it comes to, you know, the C suite are, how easy is it for them to accept that timeline? Like, like, I got this, you mentioned, this is a fast moving thing. Like, it's always moving. I want results now.
Lindsay Shababy 32:17
Yes, yes. How easy is
Shayne Daughenbaugh 32:19
it to convey that,
Lindsay Shababy 32:21
um, I mean, in my years, I've learned really just how to have those conversations with both sides. And I think it would honestly depend on the the project or the outcomes that they're looking for how urgent they are, because you can I've had projects where the timelines were a little longer because, you know, there wasn't as high of, let's say, a safety risk or a quality risk. But I've also had projects of, hey, this keeps happening, and it is a huge safety concern to our staff, to our patients, we need to do this right now. And so if we have the latter type of project, it's really talking to the C suite, talking to the executive saying, Hey, I know your staff is, you know, overworked right now, and they don't have a lot of time. What are some things we can do to create that time for them, right so we can tackle this project. And it's, you know, hey, let's do this all in one afternoon. We don't have to pull them off the floor multiple times. Or we can get this done in two weeks. We'll do two hours here, two hours there. So I think it's really just a back and forth and just understanding the balance and the goals of both. Okay,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 33:57
okay, yeah, that makes sense, which I would say that's being empathetic, because you need to understand and holding accountability. We do need results Absolutely. So I am one who is insanely addicted to the practical. You could say, Sure, I really like, let's just not take these ideas. Tell me what this looks like. Show me what this looks like. So for the last question that I have, let's talk about those that maybe, let's put this in the context of, hey, there is someone new who, or they are new to being in a CI role in a healthcare you know, in the healthcare industry, what are some practical things, some first steps, some principles, anything like that you can that you can share with them. You know, you've already mentioned, you know, having empathy, you know, working with leadership and trying to prioritize. But you know, those kind of things, what are, and maybe even more detailed, I don't know however you however you do it, but if I was brand new, give me, you know, a 30 to 62nd here, you should probably pay attention to these things.
Lindsay Shababy 34:58
Sure. Yeah. So I think first and foremost, if you are new to a CI role in healthcare, just go in and observe. Learn your way around the healthcare system. Learn who the key players are. Learn, you know, how some of those departments operate, and just do some observations. See, go to GEMBA, you know, talk to people, see what some of their frustrations are. So maybe you can pull out, you know, one or two really great initial projects to work on. And then I think, you know, something else is start small you don't have to tackle an entire hospital project all at once. Start with the department, start with the team, you know, three, I think, try and make the data as personal as possible. I talked about it before, you know, tying it back to patient stories or frontline experiences. I think another good one is to make sure that we're celebrating progress, not just outcomes. If you're in a project, make sure you're celebrating even the smallest win, because that really keeps people going. So at the end of the day, you can move fast and be compassionate and empathetic. You know, one builds momentum and the other builds trust, and together, those two are really powerful,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 36:35
awesome, awesome. Well, Lizzie, I really appreciate all of this, I appreciate your passion for for the field, for what you do. Very excited. If people were to want to follow you, want to learn a little bit more, and, you know, kind of glean from your experiences. Where could they find you?
Lindsay Shababy 36:56
Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. I post a lot of great content on LinkedIn. I've also created a really great hub for Healthcare Improvement called Project elevate. Yes, yes.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 37:12
So we do we have that information? Have you sent that to us? Yeah,
Lindsay Shababy 37:17
I'll send it over, but it's a really great platform. I post weekly tools, case studies. It's a good community for people who are really passionate about improvement in healthcare to come together, to ask questions, to share stories and things like that. So, yeah, okay,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 37:38
excellent, excellent. Well, thank you so much again. We will put some of this stuff in the show notes, awesome. And for those of you that have been listening, thanks again. We hope you have a great day, and we'll talk to you later.
Lindsay Shababy 37:53
Sounds good. Thank you, Shane, so much for having me. Thank you, Lindsay, Bye, for now.