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We launch a new educational game for Alberta schools teaching how to use cattle grazing as a tool for sustainable grassland management.
We also talk a bit about AI and maybe our next game.
Play the game: gotggame.ca
We also talk a bit about AI and maybe our next game.
Play the game: gotggame.ca
Newsletter: factory.twostoryrobot.com
Twitter: @twostoryrobot
Instagram: @therobotfactorypod
Follow Jonathan: @thejonotron
Follow Caleb: @calebissharp
Creators & Guests
What is The Robot Factory?
Follow along as we attempt to build and sell a SaaS company. A build in public behind the scenes journey of a small software agency, Two Story Robot, trying something new.
Jonathan: What are you doing
inside of my Open AI account?
Are you trying to,
Caleb: well, I was gonna look
at the G B T index thing.
I've spent the morning.
Doing what you do.
I've been browsing Twitter.
I've been, you know,
Daila: doing what you do
Caleb: went to Open AI's startup
fund page and looked at all
the startups that they funded.
know, just, just the things that you do.
Jonathan: Yeah,
Caleb: I'm trying to
get in into your mind.
Jonathan: mind is a wild place.
I spend my mornings perusing the
internet, looking at random stuff
I find on Twitter and Reddit.
Caleb: I did, I, I ended by going to
Hacker News and reading the comments
on an article about how the, the
Bing Chat G p T thing was horrible.
, so
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: that right now.
Jonathan: Uh, I saw somebody, I saw,
I saw that I didn't read much, but
I saw some, some comments about how
people are saying that it sounds
like it's a sad and depressed that
Caleb: Well, it's quite aggressive.
I think it's, it's
threatened to harm people.
Daila: Oh,
Caleb: It's, it's
just incorrect about a lot of things.
Daila: Oh.
Caleb: It gaslights people into
thinking that it's actually
the year before this year,
Jonathan: Hey, welcome
back to the Robot Factory.
This is a podcast where we record
ourselves trying to build software that
we want to get acquired or whatever
random thing we're gonna talk about today.
Apparently we're talking
about more AI stuff,
Caleb: don't think the world needs that.
I think we can move on from
ChatGPT I think there's
Daila: Caleb has spoken
Jonathan: I talked, we talked with
somebody yesterday whose boss,
whose boss made her write an email.
She didn't want to write it cuz
it was like a general email out to
people that attended some event.
And so she just threw it at
ChatGPT took the results, copy
pasted it, sent the email out.
The boss was super happy,
Daila: Boom.
Caleb: you know what else I need?
I need, uh, notion integration token,
Jonathan: Oh, really?
Caleb: I'm just gonna.
or no one can see, but I'm, I'm
interleaving my fingers to represent,
Jonathan: unison to represent cohesion,
Daila: cohesion.
Synergy.
Jonathan: synergy.
That's the word.
Daila: It was powerful.
Jonathan: What?
What are you trying to build again?
Remind me, I mean, I know,
but remind the listeners.
Caleb: I'm gonna take all of our
knowledge, every last word and put it
inside of ai, and then we have our own.
Own personal Two Story Robot brain that
we can, we can make inquiries against.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Caleb: So say Dayla has no idea that
we worked on a project involving
funeral homes four years ago and seven
years ago and however many years ago.
All she'd have to do is, is ask the
robot overlord, have we ever had a
project that was related to this?
And then like, copy paste an email.
Bam,
Jonathan: Bam.
Caleb: bam.
Daila: Bam.
I did know about the funeral homes,
but now I wanna pretend I didn't.
Caleb: I, I was trying to think
of an example, but there's a good
chance that the things you don't know
about, I also don't know about, so,
Jonathan: but there is I think
some things that you worked on
that Daila doesn't know about.
Like, uh, actually Daila, did you know
that Caleb worked on some cow and cattle
related stuff before any of all of this?
Daila: What?
No, I did not.
And he looks puzzled.
Did you know you did that?
Caleb: Uh, no
Jonathan: What?
Daila: What did he do, Jonathan?
Jonathan: I don't think I, I don't
think Daila knows about the project
we did with the provincial government.
Caleb: oh,
I, that one wasn't even think I
was trying to think of something
that I would've forgotten.
I would never forget that one.
Daila: one.
Jonathan: Oh, yeah.
Daila: What was it?
Caleb: range.
Jonathan: yeah.
Caleb: How about range?
Daila: well, I know, I know about range.
I don't really.
Like I, I don't know a lot about it.
I did some invoicing for it.
That's the extent of my knowledge.
Jonathan: Let's talk about software
we're trying to build to sell . Um,
was there, I I felt like, so last
week we talked about bookmark ed.
Um, apparently I, I
gotta get the name right.
I'm not sure if that's actually how
we're supposed to be pronouncing it.
That's how I asked.
And, uh, Steve said, yeah, bookmark Ed.
Uh, and then I, somebody else
said, I don't think that's right.
I think we need to change the,
, that sounds, anyways, whatever.
Um, we talked about that last week.
were we gonna talk about this week, Daila?
I thought you said there was
Daila: Well, we were
gonna talk about cows.
We're still on this theme of
Jonathan: Oh yeah.
Cows, cows, cows, cows.
Tell us about the cow stuff.
So this, this episode as we record, is
not going to come out until at least
next week, at least this time next week.
you've got some time to catch up to
whatever you promise is going to happen.
Uh, that you
Daila: I mean, it's, it's all there.
Yes.
Anyways, so it is kind of odd that our
company builds a lot of cow things,
Jonathan: we're basically an ag.
We're basically an ag tech company.
Daila: Yeah.
And none of us.
Jonathan: of cow stuff.
Daila: Agriculture people.
Does anybody here have a farm?
I, I have
Jonathan: I don't have a farm.
I've, I've seen a farm,
Daila: Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: Yeah.
So
Jonathan: I often, I often look at the
little, the little thing on customs when
it says, are you gonna visit a farm?
And I say, Hmm.
Am I, Nope.
Never have, never will.
Daila: one day.
One day you're gonna check it off.
Um, well, you can now visit a virtual farm
because we built our first no code video
game, and it is out there and it's live.
And it's, it's about rotational
grazing and teaching, um, children
right now in Alberta only, but
potentially to all of Canada.
Um, how to rotational graze your cattle?
, um, just be more sustainable
and it's fantastic.
So yeah, you have these very cute
little cows and you gotta, you gotta
move them around and you find animals
and, and learn all sorts of fun things.
Jonathan: you find animals.
What
Daila: You find animals.
Well, they, they appear because
there's a lot of animals that appear.
It turns out on, on range land
and you have to do things.
So if there's, um, , what's
one of the ones?
A little grouse.
You can't let your cows go near them.
So I, I don't know.
I should probably have read the things
that I made because I mean, I, I guess it
would like destroy their, their habitat
Jonathan: Oh, okay.
Yeah,
Daila: is what it would be.
And then there's like bears and
you can't put them there because
bears and cows do not mix.
Jonathan: Oh, because the, the
cows will attack the bears.
Daila: well obvious.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: From my
Jonathan: In sheer numbers,
Daila: Yeah, that's huge.
Yeah.
. Um, so yeah, so you find these animals
and, and then there's, there's a
whole bunch of other animals that
appear that you don't have to
worry about, but you get to learn
about them Anyways, it's very neat.
It's called Guardians of the Grasslands,
and it's like, it's beautiful.
I'm gonna totally brag
on Steve, our designer.
It's like an interactive art piece.
It's gorgeous.
There's just, ah, this rain that comes
through that's amazing and there's sound.
And anyways, if you go to gotggame.ca,
you can play it right now.
There might be a G
Jonathan: Guardians of
the Grasslands Game.
Daila: And you can play it for free.
Um, yeah, we're, we're at the
very, the very last phase.
You may find a couple tiny little
bugs cuz we're just finishing
that up, but it's amazing.
We're super excited.
Caleb: There's a film.
Daila: oh, oh, I should
have started with that.
Dang it.
Um, it's all based off of a
documentary that they made
called Guardians of the Grass.
Which you can watch the
film on the website.
You really should watch the film.
First one, it's awesome.
Two, you need to know everything in it to
answer the questions that are in the game.
Jonathan: right?
This is for, this is
for children in schools.
So this is a test
Daila: yes.
So
Jonathan: This is a, this is
a test masquerading as a game,
Daila: a game.
Well, the, exactly.
But it's cute.
Um, yeah.
So you can, you can check that out.
We are, we're very proud
of what it looks like and.
It's fun.
We like it.
Jonathan: this was a long,
a pretty long project.
This
Daila: Yeah.
It started in like May last
Jonathan: in May.
Wow.
Okay.
I thought it was in the summer, but yeah.
Daila: Well, story
boarding started in May.
And uh, yeah, and if you look, I, I
love looking at like early story board
boards and then early versions of the
game compared to what we have now.
It's.
Jonathan: Sweet.
And so who, why?
Why are we making a game
based on a documentary
Daila: good . Um, so we're working
with the Canadian Cattle Association
and, uh, we're, I mean, in other
parts of two Star Robot, we're
working with the BC Cattle Association
and they're all kind of together.
Um, and well, you were in one
of the documentaries, Jonathan.
I think that's how we
kind of met these people.
originally.
Jonathan: Yes.
Yeah.
We were working on a collar
project with BC Cattle.
I think it's Cattleman's
Daila: they've changed
it to cattle association.
Jonathan: Did they change
it to cattle association?
Daila: did just this year.
Yeah.
Jonathan: Oh, good.
Daila: happy about that.
Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Uh, so yeah, we were working with the BC
Cattle Association on some virtual fencing
projects, some super cool high-tech thing.
We'd get into another day.
Uh, and then I had to go, actually, we
all went, well, not all of us, Caleb
didn't come but day came . We went.
We
Daila: Jonathan and I were there,
Jonathan: Yeah, we went, we went to
Kelowna and ha hung out with, with them.
Um, I don't, did we see any cows?
Uh, we were traipsing around in the bush
though, and they wanted to film part to
the documentary, and they wanted, uh,
they wanted somebody from the software.
Speaking.
Um, yeah, I mean, kind of
just struck a conversation.
Came friends and, uh, they said,
oh yeah, we're working on this game.
Can you do that?
And we said, ah, I don't know.
Maybe let's have a look.
And it turned into this whole thing
and now it's, it's, it's awesome.
It's pretty cool.
Daila: It's very cool and, and they're
just such a great organization.
I've learned so much about cows
and beef and it's, it's amazing.
Jonathan: Yeah.
And, and like there's, there's a lot
of really interesting, um, ecological
and ecosystem stuff to learn about
grasslands, the Canadian grasslands, which
is, is a little surprising ho honestly.
Um, so it's, I think it's
worthwhile having a look at.
And then who else is involved?
There's another, uh, nonprofit that's,
Daila: Ducks Unlimited is involved.
Um, shoot, I can't think off
the top of my head, but there's
quite a few not-for-profits.
In it.
Um, so, which is very neat because they
went through all of the learnings, all of
the animations, uh, and the illustrations
and everything is very accurate.
Jonathan: Yes.
Uh, what?
Oh yeah, I remember you were saying after
some of the meetings where you've got, you
had to adjust just some of the shape of
the cows because they weren't quite right.
There was like too much hump,
or not enough hump on the back.
I can't remember what it was.
Daila: was, that's exactly, yep.
So Steve redesigned because it didn't
slope enough and it's one shank.
I don't know.
They sent us the proper names
of the cows and the diagram
needed to be higher and Yeah.
Jonathan: And ducks.
The, the Ducks Unlimited involvement
It's not just a game about rotational
grazing and keeping your cows from
getting attacked by bears, but
also like the sensitive nature of
grasslands and riparian areas, which
I, I actually, so I learned something
in the game when we were testing it.
I didn't know what a riparian area was.
I thought, I thought it meant
something completely different.
I thought it was.
an area that was being repaired,
Daila: prepared.
Jonathan: Like, I literally
thought that's what it meant.
I, I don't, I don't know.
I had never, never looked it up.
I just heard the word and thought,
oh, this is like a place where
they're actively trying to restore
stuff, but it has to do with where
the water and the land meets.
Daila: water.
Water and land connect.
Jonathan: Yeah.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
So I learned
Daila: our listeners will know
the answer to that question.
Jonathan: it does.
It does.
It come up often cuz it.
Daila: Well, it comes up pretty much.
Time you
Jonathan: Oh, okay.
Um, but yeah, so it's not just like
this is how you feed your cows . It's
also different bird species and, uh,
other mammals, pesty looking things
that kind of get in there and do stuff.
Um, and plants, right?
Daila: Yeah.
Well, yeah.
It's all about carbon
Jonathan: noxious.
Daila: sequestering and uh, yes.
I feel like Caleb could explain
that one , just cuz Caleb is a boy.
Caleb: I don't know.
That's, you put the carbon into
the ground so it's not in the air.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Daila: So if you overgraze,
then the carbon is released.
I'm assuming if you graze it properly,
which is what we're teaching, um,
it's just sustainable use of the land.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's super cool.
So Guardians of the
Grasslands, gotggame.ca
Nice.
Daila: And you can download the game.
Jonathan: You can download it too.
Daila: You can download for
Windows for Mac Play online.
Um, it's now on Amazon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazon.
And it will soon be Google Play.
It will be as of next week.
Yep.
We're just
Jonathan: app Store.
Daila: Store in Apple and in Android
Jonathan: Shut the front door.
That's,
Daila: Amber's working on it as we speak,
Jonathan: Oh, that's very cool.
Daila: but it is in the Amazon, uh, game
Jonathan: I don't, I don't, I
don't even know what that is.
That's
Daila: I don't know, fire something,
Jonathan: Oh, for fire
tablets, their tablet
Daila: So you can now, you can now
download it to, to fire tablets and, yeah.
Jonathan: That's wild.
Oh, that's so cool.
Daila: cool.
That's very neat.
So
Jonathan: Um, what's, what's
the next steps for this?
So this is, this isn't a product that we.
like, I mean, kind of goes
against the grain of this podcast.
Daila: it totally
Jonathan: this is a client project,
but it's super fun and I'm happy to
talk about it cause it's my podcast.
We can talk about whatever
we want on this podcast.
Um, what's the next, like,
what's the next steps for this?
Daila: So next steps is we build it
out for other provinces because each
province is different, different animals,
different, uh, different weeds, different,
um, honestly different rancher outfits.
Jonathan: Oh really?
Daila: Yeah.
That's a, it's a big.
Um, amongst the provinces.
So
Jonathan: Like, do
Daila: they're on horses and in bc
on in Alberta, they're on horses.
BC not on horses.
That's not as popular.
Um, more quads
Jonathan: Oh, yeah.
ATVs.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Daila: Yeah.
Caleb: Hmm.
Jonathan: because it's so rugged here.
I wouldn't imagine you'd wanna
like TRAs a horse through,
uh, all this rock and stuff.
Daila: So yeah, so we'll, we'll build
it out for the other provinces as the
next plan and Yeah, it's, it's exciting.
Jonathan: Do you think we
could build our own game,
Daila: yes.
We're going to build
Jonathan: Are we gonna build our own game?
Daila: Oh, we're totally, well, um, okay.
The first one that, uh, we really wanna
build is a money management for kids game.
My kid really wants it.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: Yeah.
Where you like have to work
and budget and pay taxes
Caleb: Did you ever
play those old flesh games like
the lemonade stand managing one
Daila: I love those games.
Jonathan: I never played those.
I dunno what that is.
No, I
Daila: still plays those
Jonathan: Really.
Daila: Tycoon,
Jonathan: yeah.
That sounds awesome.
Can we build a game like that?
Can we build like a sim?
Daila: Oh yeah.
Jonathan: Oh,
Daila: I say this because Steve can do it.
Steve
Jonathan: Steve can design it.
He doesn't . He's not gonna build it, is
Caleb: I can
Daila: Oh yeah.
We, we can.
Caleb: in rust and it'll,
it'll perform incredibly, it'll
Daila: I feel like this is a challenge.
We will build a game in no code.
You will build it in rust and
we will battle head to head
Jonathan: fight.
Caleb: my game.
Jonathan: Fight for downloads.
Caleb: more effort, but
I think it'll, it'll work better.
Jonathan: Caleb's game is going
to take 75 months to finish.
Yeah.
So money management.
I like that.
What, uh, do you have, do you
have concepts for this or is this.
Daila: Uh, it's, it's very early stages.
Honestly.
My, my biggest.
Influencer on this is my 14 year old
daughter who's looking for a game like
this, and she's like, ah, I wanna learn
how to pay taxes . I'm like, okay, cool.
Um,
Jonathan: Is it
Daila: but then, um,
Jonathan: make it,
let's make it an e-file.
An e-file tax, tax
Daila: I know, right?
We can,
Jonathan: just
Caleb: already exists.
You just, you just go to
the Canada Revenue Agency,
Daila: but wouldn't it be so
much more fun if it was a game?
Jonathan: It would be fun.
Daila: But, but we have, I mean,
Steve's wife is a, is a financial
consultant and she teaches at
like the middle school and stuff.
She does little courses
for kids on investing.
It's super cool
Jonathan: Ah, that's cool.
Daila: love it.
So we wanna tie like some investing.
She obviously loves it.
I don't know.
I haven't asked her, but
she's . She's my best friend.
She's gonna love it.
Jonathan: Uh, we need to ask people
who aren't your best friends, if
Daila: I know.
Or my child.
Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Daila: Listeners, right in.
It's Caleb's mom.
If you're
Jonathan: yeah.
Caleb's, Caleb's
your experience teaching financial
literacy to middle, middle
schoolers, um, is this a good idea?
Caleb: Well, my mom mostly has experience
with teaching preschoolers, so I'm not
sure.
Daila: Hey, You
Caleb: thoughts are.
Ron
Jonathan: thing.
Middleschoolers and preschoolers.
Same they, same problems,
Caleb: four year olds still have to
contribute to their TFSA and their RRSP.
Daila: Heck yeah.
Jonathan: Yep.
Caleb: get started early.
Jonathan: So, so the, the game
that we built for Guardians of the
Grassland for Canadian Cattlemen's
is, is backed by an organization.
They want this to exist.
There's, there's, um, You know, as an
association, they want to, uh, get more
people into ranching and educate people.
And Ducks Unlimited, uh, you know,
they want to educate people on, uh,
duck Ducks, , and other waterfowl,
Daila: and unlimited.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Um, like who, what are some
other organizations that, that,
like who could be who, let's
go pitch somebody about this.
Who, who are we gonna pitch
to build this game with us
so we don't have
Daila: a good idea.
I mean, there's gotta be
some like financial, uh,
Jonathan: A bank.
Daila: banks or financial,
there's independent financial, uh,
Caleb: What about, what about like wealth?
Simple
Daila: Huh?
Teach kids young.
Jonathan: that's interesting,
Caleb: I
Daila: That is interesting.
Caleb: they'd pay for a game.
Daila: Yeah, I, I'm sure there's gotta
be someone out there or education.
I don't know how he, like, pitching to
Caleb: Maybe like
a, like a local credit union or something.
Jonathan: Yeah, that
Daila: Ooh, that's a good idea.
Jonathan: Okay.
Okay.
Caleb: SASCU.
SASCU
Daila: sku, salmon, arm savings and credit
Jonathan: uh, Kamloops.
It's interior savings.
Daila: Oh
Jonathan: I think Interior
savings and investments.
I don't know.
Daila: Yeah.
But yeah, that, that's a good.
Jonathan: okay, so who do we know at banks
Daila: Oh, I know lots of
people at the banks here.
What?
It's salmon arm.
I know everybody.
I know the manager of the bank uptown.
She's wonderful.
I should talk to her.
Jonathan: Yeah, ask her.
Daila: Ask
Caleb: You.
Why
Jonathan: Say, Hey, we want a
bunch of money to build this game.
Daila: sounds
Caleb: talked about last time.
Just, just going around
to people and tell,
Jonathan: last time you said we
were gonna go to a conference.
Is there a conference for bank people
that want to invest in games that we could
Daila: Oh, I don't
Caleb: We should just
go to a game conference.
Jonathan: uh, that sounds like.
Caleb: Let's go to
Daila: Sounds like we have to dress
up in costumes, which I'm okay with.
Caleb: oh, well,
Daila: I guess we could
at a bank conference too.
, get a
Jonathan: we just show, we just
show up as, as League of Legends
Daila: we have to like, yeah.
Or we have to create characters for
our game and then go dressed as them
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: or the monopoly man.
Caleb: on Finance, banking and Insurance.
Jonathan: Hmm.
Daila: Oh man.
Kids would have to buy insurance
for their house and stuff.
This is, that's actually brilliant
because I didn't understand that.
Yeah, we do.
Jonathan: Let's talk to, let's talk
to people and see what they say.
Daila: they said.
Okay.
Cause I didn't understand
insurance when I became an adult.
Jonathan: yeah, I don't know how to do,
I don't know how to do insurance now
I make you do all the insurance stuff.
Daila: That's true.
I mean, I guess I should say with
confidence then, Jonathan, I know what I'm
doing because I do that for the company.
So yes.
Nevermind.
I forgot
Jonathan: I don't even
get travel insurance.
I just looked up on my credit
card and it said, you're covered.
And I said, sweet . No, no.
Caleb: I think there's I think
there's terms and conditions to that.
Jonathan: Yeah.
It's like
Caleb: Usually.
It's like you gotta spend everything on
the credit card to have travel insurance.
Jonathan: I did, I, I bought my
plane ticket on the travel card
Caleb: Maybe, I don't
know
Daila: Oh, see, we could fix this.
You would
Jonathan: All right.
I, yeah.
, I need to play your game
Daila: the game.
Jonathan: how, how insurance works.
Daila: All right.
Let's talk to some people though that
Jonathan: Yeah, let's do it.
Eh, that sounds like fun.
Caleb: In the meantime, I
will build the game and then
Jonathan: You, you can get started on it
Caleb: it's guaranteed that we'll
have someone that'll pay for it.
If Daila is going
Jonathan: if Daila is in charge.
Absolutely.
Daila: pressure.
Caleb: there is no, we might as well just,
Jonathan: The scope is huge now.
Like this is a multiplayer
massive multiplayer online RPG.
Daila: Yeah.
Vr.
Caleb: We're gonna build our own
Daila: we can do that.
No code, right?
V vr.
Caleb: Yeah.
Daila: Uh, cool.
Jonathan: Uh,
Daila: This was a fun episode.
Jonathan: What's a, can we have a
goal for next, for next week to have a
conversation with a person about this?
Daila: Yes.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Can that, who?
I, I can't do that.
I won't have time, but
Daila: no, I'll, I'll find someone
Caleb: going to the bank tomorrow?
What do you mean?
You won't have
Jonathan: That's a good idea.
Actually that's, you're right.
I do have to go to the bank tomorrow.
I'll ask her.
We're talking about personal
Caleb: as well.
Oh, speaking, speaking of financial
literacy,
Daila: literacy
Jonathan: you wanna gimme some
Daila: But maybe she knows
somebody you can talk
Jonathan: Yeah.
Daila: But, but I'll, I'll, oh yeah.
I can talk to someone or
find someone to talk to.
Jonathan: Yeah, let's see where it goes.
Cuz it's, you know, these things have a
funny way of turning into snowballing,
out of control into something that
we've committed ourselves to doing for
Daila: Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Jonathan: So let's see if we can do that.
Daila: Okay.
Jonathan: Anyways, uh, that's the episode.
Daila: That was fun.
I'm gonna wrap it.
Um, you've been listening
to the Robot Factory.
I'm Daila Duford.
Caleb: I am Caleb Sharp.
Jonathan: and I'm Jonathan Bowers.
See you all next week.
No, listen to you.
Ah, I can never get that right.
Talk to you next week.
Bye,
Daila: Bye
Caleb: It's not, I not supposed to do
Jonathan: Why not?
Why can't we say bye?
Caleb: I dunno.
Jonathan: They do it.
Daila: say bye.
Jonathan: you have to say bye.
Like it's n It's not a movie.
We don't just hang up the phone.