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Hosted by Dr. Val Civelli, White Coat Black Sheep explores physiology, functional medicine, and the medical questions most people are told not to ask.
This is where evidence meets curiosity, where dogma gets uncomfortable, and where real world medicine takes priority over headlines.
From understanding your lab work to debunking hormone myths, medication misconceptions, and optimization strategies, this podcast helps you understand what is actually happening inside your body.
If you care about health and think there might be a better way to practice medicine, you’re in the right place.
Welcome to "White Coat, Black Sheep," where science gets curious and dogma gets
uncomfortable. I'm Dr. Savelli, and today we're talking physiology,
evidence, and real-world medicine.
Plus, the questions you're not supposed to ask but probably should.
If you care about health and think there's a better way, welcome to our show.
So today we have with us the beautiful, lovely Angelina
Rodriguez. Angelina is a seasoned healthcare professional with
over 20 years of experience delivering high-quality care across
multiple healthcare settings. She began her
career in 1997,
I love it, with Kaiser, building a strong
foundation in patient-centered care.
Her background includes extensive work as a case manager for HMO
insurance and Medicare fee-for-service programs.
There, she developed expertise in patient advocacy, care
coordination, and navigating complex healthcare systems for diverse
populations. She later served as a hospice nurse, oh, I didn't know that,
providing compassionate, dignified end-of-life care to patients and
families.
Angelina also worked as a healthcare liaison, and this is for senior living
care communities and specialty providers, acting as a
vital bridge between families, patients, and healthcare organizations.
Her experience spans acute care, hospice, insurance,
case management, and senior living, with a consistent focus on quality
communication and service excellence.
And this is mostly in the senior populations.
I am speechless. Welcome to my show.
I am just so happy to have you on. How's
everything? How are you?
So busy.
You have so many skills.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
Sometimes you do things throughout your life, and you
never really take the time to sit back and say, "Man,
I really did accomplish a lot."
I love that about you.
I didn't realize I had done so much
till you were reading that. I was like, "Wow, look at me, go."
You're like, "I've been a busy girl."
Yes.
Yeah. I so admire that, and definitely our industries
overlap, they align.
Since I'm in hospice and home health, and as
director, you've been on the other side making the pieces move,
and
it's super important. The job looks impossible.
Mm-hmm.
Do you want to talk about your experience at all about that?
Hospice,
it was actually like therapy for me.
So I went into hospice after I lost my nephew.
So he had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and I was his
primary caregiver. And
I was a little angry at the world,
like how unfair it was.
Yeah.
He was so young, all the things. And then I started working in
hospice, and
I cared for
infants-
Mm-hmm
... seven-year-olds.
Ugh. My gosh.
I knew the world wasn't trying to pick on me.
Yeah.
So it was very therapeutic for me in that sense.
But also,
it's such a privilege to be with people at the end of their journey.
It is.
That's your opportunity to really...
You may have been the only nice person or the only positive person that they've
ever come in contact with. A lot of people, especially
the older ones,
that are kind of broke off from their
family.
They're like-
They do
... "Thank you. You're the first
skin-on-skin contact I've had."
Yeah.
When you're giving them a bed bath or-
Wow
... whatever it is that you're doing for them-
Mm-hmm
... they really appreciate it.
Oh my gosh. That's beautiful.
Yeah. So I love hospice, but for
me, it's not something I could do consistently for
year after year after year.
I know what you mean. Yeah.
I need a break.
Yeah. But it is heavy.
Mm-hmm.
You're not saying that it does not wear on you, because it does.
Because I feel that way, too.
Yep.
And you were the good in
that situation, which was organically bad-
Right
... and hard for anybody to see or watch or
be a part of. But I love that. That's beautiful that you were able
to just turn that into a sparkle because
woo.
Yeah. It can get-
It's heavy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's why I
always try to tell people hospice isn't always a bad word, not even the
people who are put on it.
No, it's beautiful, actually.
Yeah.
I think it's beautiful because, like you said, you're able to touch people's
lives when it honestly matters the most.
Because suffering, to me, is just unethical, and I don't want to
suffer.
Yeah.
I fear suffering.
And I probably, for people like us,
we know why would we want to suffer?
Mm-hmm.
We're not preventing the inevitable.
Yeah.
We're just trying to provide-
Or prolonging.
Yeah. We're trying to provide comfort.
Mm-hmm.
But some people, and depending on where they're at in age, it's really hard
for them. But that's what made me want to
advocate for hospice, because I literally
watched my nephew die in pain.
Oh.
And that was
probably one of the worst things I've ever done.
And I would share that story with people coming on to hospice,
saying,
"This is an option because
we can't take it away. We can't make it stop."
Yeah.
"But
let us provide you some comfort so you can truly enjoy
the little moments that you have left with your family."
Oh, that would be meaningful for me.
If it's my family or whatever, friends, loved one, doesn't
matter. That's awesome.
Yeah.
And that's impactful.
I don't think that there's any part of hospice that anyone does that
isn't impactful.
I think it's a space where, so yes, the people that are in
it and doing it right-
Mm-hmm
... but definitely it's a space where there's high fraud and-
Right
... it's easy to take advantage of because
you're dealing with the most vulnerable patients.
Right.
So unfortunately, there's still predators.
Right.
So I think that's the space that
creates all the red tape and the stuff that is not
pleasant on the provider side, on the
process side. There's a lot of rules, there's a lot of paperwork
beyond the patients-
Right
... that I could complain about.
That's actually why I started
doing consulting, was because
I was able to witness so much.
What's the nicest way I can say it?
I think don't say it nicely.
Well, because, okay, for instance,
nurses at the hospital, case management level, they're busy.
Their goal is, you know what? This person's getting discharged, let's get this bed
empty.
It looks so hard. That job looks so hard.
Yes.
And you have to talk to the families, like when do you?
Yeah.
You're going to miss the call that you need to book this person's appointment
or whatever-
Yes
... is the logistic.
And then they're like, "We want them out before certain time," right?
So they have a job to do.
The hospital gods.
Yes.
Yeah.
They have a job to do-
Yeah
... and so they're going to do it. They're going to do it to their best ability.
Mm-hmm.
But sometimes
in that little window,
families aren't fully informed. They don't truly know their options.
Yeah.
But to them, they're like, "Okay, that bed's empty. That person's gone.
Okay, on to the next one." And it does get to a point
where they literally do become
a medical record number.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And sometimes-
Well, it's system-based care.
Mm-hmm.
If we zoom out and we're like, okay, what's the overall main problem?
It's system-based care, so it is numbers.
Yeah.
You can only do so much with the tools that we have
to get the information with the time that
you're, the little window.
And if the person doesn't catch it, sorry.
Yeah.
I tried.
Next.
Exactly. So I was like,
sometimes
my whole goal is to be able to sit down with families and
find out what their need is.
Yeah.
Help them find a solution, but not
a solution that they're going to take three to six months to find.
Yeah.
Let's sit down. Let's be real. You tell me what you need.
I'm going to tell you your options.
I'm going to save you time, and hopefully, I'm going to save you money, and you're
going to get the care that you want at the level that you need.
That's ideal.
And it's just time, like you said.
Mm-hmm.
Everybody in nursing homes, you know it, you see it.
Mm.
Nurse to 30, whatever the case is. They don't have time to-
Mission impossible
... sit and do all that. Yes.
It's literally mission impossible.
So when are they supposed to sit down and give that
educational-
The TLC.
Yeah.
And education.
Exactly.
Education's luxury now.
Right.
Just like, Jesus. Just give them their meds.
Yes.
Yeah.
Exactly. So-
Yeah
... I think that seniors need to be treated just a little bit better.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
All people do, but I just have a spot
for seniors.
We're in the same. Yeah. And really, that's what led me into functional
medicine. I've said it over and over, but
in working with seniors, I'm like, "Oh,
no. We got this much time before I am 80.
We got this..."
Or you see a little 65-year-old and they're not doing too good, I'm like, "Oh, God.
Okay. How much time before I'm 65?" And it just seems like
clock-watching, in a sense, to a countdown to
how they're experiencing their last two decades.
And we don't have to do that.
Right.
I
go through referrals all the time for people going to
acutes and skilled and all the wonderful things.
You know what I do?
What?
Oh my gosh, they're younger than I am.
Oh my gosh, that's me in two years. What can I do?
Somebody help me.
These grannies and grandpas are giving us some anxious
feelings.
Yes.
But man.
But it's younger and younger, like not-
I know. The bodies are breaking down.
Mm-hmm.
But also, we're in an area that is underserved, and
there is a lot of lifestyle
situations that we could improve on.
Exactly.
In this area, I feel like drinking is a
major hobby. It's just what happens.
Yeah. What else is there to do?
I know.
Right.
I know.
I think we have a high rate, too, for female obesity in California.
Yes.
I think Bakersfield is pretty much up there.
Yeah.
I'm probably in that category.
Don't-
I'm working on it
... you don't have to self-reflect right now.
I know.
We can leave that for another time. Yeah, this is just for them.
We don't need to talk about us right now.
That's right. Exactly.
Later.
But yeah. No, it's hard, and I try to be
the good and the bad, just like your perspective
with hospice as well.
It's just
we have to fix it. We have to do something.
Right.
And
I don't know. The last two decades, in my opinion, should look
like this. You're still active, you're still moving, you're still you
mentally. You're maybe a little slower. That's fine.
But you're not in pain. You're not having to take
a ridiculous laundry list of pain
medications or other medications, and then treating the symptoms of
those with more meds.
There's just foods that we could adjust.
There's so many things that we could change now, but we have to
be a little bit more aggressive.
Right.
And it has to be more of the leading thing in our treatment plans,
and it's not.
Well, have you ever noticed
the Central Coast, people in San Luis Obispo, they
have longevity there.
Yes. Yeah.
It's a healthier population. So I actually did case management out there for
the same company that I worked for here in Bakersfield.
Mm-hmm.
And
it's just a healthier population.
Like in the SNFs, they have it?
In their SNFs, from their hospital.
Wow.
People are just healthier there.
That's really freaking cool.
Yeah.
Who knew? I wonder how they get paid for that.
For keeping them healthy?
You guys let us know your ICD-10 codes and how you're doing it.
Right.
Because really, it comes down to money, right?
Yeah.
So it's like, is there extra funding for that?
Because if we're asking people to pay out of pocket, they're like, "Wait, what?"
Yeah.
There's just so much of an education gap there because longevity is like
a space term. I feel like-
Yeah
... my family doesn't understand, and so
it's like I'm learning a lot of ways to do
better just by talking to my own family and just seeing how they
process the things that I say. They think I'm a weirdo in California right
now. I'm not kidding.
No. There goes Val again.
And I can tell when they're trying to be polite because they just smile and they'll
say, "Oh, that's great." I'm like, "Do you know?"
Yeah, it's a lack of knowledge-
It's hard. Yeah
... to some degree generational. Yeah?
It's totally generational.
Yeah.
It is, and it's a new concept. It's a new style of medicine.
And longevity doesn't mean like foo-foo or like...
I don't know. It's different. So explaining
that whole concept is like
square one.
Yeah. So are your parents
here in Bakersfield?
No, my mom, she passed in 2013
and-
Okay
... I didn't ever really have a relationship with my dad.
Okay.
But I do know he's alive, so I'm like, "That's great," because maybe he has
longevity because my-
He has longevity
... mother's family does not.
Oh.
Like my grandmother, my mother, her siblings,
I believe she has two alive still.
Okay.
And they're maybe in their
just 70s, like their early 70s.
Okay.
But most of them passed between the ages of 60 and 67.
Interesting. Hey, it's more than 65, so
genetically-
But I'm like, "I'm almost there."
You are definitely not almost there.
But I think the whole screenings and
keeping up with your health, your blood work, controlling the things that
you can is definitely the most important thing
right now.
Right.
And I don't know your age, you don't have to share it, but-
I'm old
... if it's in the 40s, it's the time.
Yeah.
Time to flip the script, whatever.
I know, I was so proud of you. You went and
had your exam, and you shared that with everyone. I thought that was so awesome.
Yes. It was
such a moment for me when I was, like I shared,
on the flight and talking to a friend that I'd known for years, and then
she's an MP,
and I was called out. She straight up called me out, and I was like, "Yeah.
No, you're right. You're right." Because I just will put it off.
I will put it off. A dentist appointment, don't want to do that.
Eye exam, don't want to do that. I don't like to be the patient.
It's weird for me.
I think people in healthcare are like that.
We're like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no."
They're like, "We'll take care of everybody else and tell everybody else what to
do-"
Yes
... but when it comes to us, no.
All day. No, no, no. Why are you looking over here? Look over there.
Don't check my blood pressure.
Right.
I'm good.
Especially when I'm mad or I haven't had coffee.
No, I have one million excuses. I'm like, "Don't write that number.
That's not my blood pressure."
Oh my God. I was in a hurry.
I'm a sassy, bad patient. So when my
friend is like, "You need to do this," and she was telling me a good
friend of ours had breast cancer, and this girl to me is young. She's 40.
So I'm like,
"What?" So it's just like a slap in my own face, like
wake up, open your little eyes. You need to get in there and just do it.
So I did it.
I know, and I'm proud of you.
Yeah.
Weren't you proud of you?
Oh my God. I felt like I won something.
You're like, "I am so accomplished."
It's like I gave myself an award, a trophy.
I was like, "Look at this," like showing everybody.
But really, it just seems like later, later,
later.
Right.
But then there I was looking at my own breast tissue and I'm
like, "Huh.
Okay. Got some dense breast tissue.
Still relatively young."
You're analyzing your own breast.
I totally did. I'm like, "All right.
Let's just see if anything shows up."
Girl, what can I do about this?
Yeah. So anyway, it was good. I'm proud that I did it, and
I brought my nurse with me, Sarah.
Mm-hmm.
You know Sarah.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, yeah, we had a great experience. It was fun. It was like a field trip.
Is she doing the wellness thing? Has she started her like-
Oh, yeah
... because she looks amazing.
Yes. That makes me so happy to hear.
Yeah. She does.
She'll love hearing that, too. She is. She's really putting the effort in.
She's lost a ton of weight. She's working out. Her energy is up.
She's doing it.
Well, her work is noticed.
Yes.
And probably some of your work, too.
A little bit of my work. I don't know. I'll let her share her own.
Right. Girl, I'm not telling any secrets.
Mm-hmm. So what was your day like today?
Just reading a whole lot of charts and just kind of
looking at my pool thinking, "I really want to be in there."
But if I do-
Wait, so you get to work from home?
I do.
So that's a beautiful thing, right?
Yeah.
Do you enjoy it? I dream about it.
I do. The reason I did it is so the
company that I work for is in San Francisco, so then-
Mm-hmm
... I can do my thing here-
Yeah
... and there's no issues.
Okay.
Because I'm always like, "I got to do right because-
Yeah
... I expect everybody else to do right."
Oh, definitely.
You know?
I feel like I'm a slave driver to myself.
Wherever you put me, I'm good.
Yeah.
Same with you.
I'm like, "When do you sleep?"
No, I have a very strict sleep schedule. Don't you worry.
Oh.
It's a priority.
I was like, "She is always go, go, go."
Yeah.
I don't think-
I love it
... everybody knows all the things that you do.
No.
And I'm not going to share, but I think it's amazing.
Thank you so much, and I think it's-- I don't know.
You have a lot of things too. We enjoy it.
I love what I do. You love what you do.
Yep.
And I think that really just gets into, it's a snowball,
in a good way.
Yeah.
Because you were like, "Oh. Well, this is very similar, and then this too." And
it's like then you have a cluster of things you love to do.
Yes.
And you're like, "This is just the best life ever."
Right. And then you're like, "Oh, but then work." Like for me right now-
Yeah
... I am kind of at that
I don't know
what kind of stage you'd call it, but-
A fork in the road?
Kind of, yeah. People are like, "Oh, well, if you're going to start your business,
why are you still working?" Well, because you got to make money till you make
money.
You didn't understand what I'm saying.
And when I'm-
I hear you
... it's not so much for that.
Mm-hmm.
I'm doing it because I want to, not because I need to.
Mm-hmm.
But there's a need for it.
Oh, yeah.
And that's not important. That's what
fuels me. What was that movie called with all the emotions?
Um.
You know, with the sad man.
I can see their little faces, and I haven't seen it, but I know what you're talking
about.
Yeah. So when I help people, it fills my
joy.
Yeah.
And that's what I need most in life-
Yeah
... is joy.
Yeah.
So you can't put a price on that.
No. I know. I had
that talk with somebody recently.
So it's like the transactional concept.
So it's like, that's not enough.
Right.
I have to really be into it, and I'm like, "Man, I would be better." I wish I
could change that because,
survival-wise, it would be, I think more efficient- ...
to not be like, "I'm passionate about this."
Who cares how you feel about it? But no, I need to just feel
into it-
Right
... because otherwise, I just don't care.
I'm not going to put energy where I don't feel
fully engaged.
Right. Could you imagine an artist?
"We're just going to pay you to paint this picture."
But have no feeling, no passion.
Yeah.
Artwork would not be artwork.
Yeah. No, seriously. Yeah. And I had to learn that about
myself. I did this personality test, and-
That's interesting.
Is it?
Yes.
Because I-
I think they're interesting
... I really didn't know that is how I'm wired.
And so this test-- And there's a lot of different ways you could
answer it, but I still believe it would
arrive at the same place because there's just algorithms to
certain
traits. So,
my traits, a creator was important.
That was very high. It was my second one.
My first one,
I forget the wording, but essentially it's like I
take a global view. So
anyway, so that term and then the creator.
The creator just really resonated with me because I enjoy every
single part of that. So yeah, sometimes I do feel
like maybe I'm an artist.
Well, artists are creative.
Yeah.
So still counting you in.
Yeah. But then am I a hungry artist or-
Starving artist.
Yeah.
Please feed.
Can you imagine dating someone like me?
It's just like-
Gosh
... oh my God.
It's probably never dull.
I don't think so.
You're like, "I'm going to have to ask my partner that."
It'd be funny to hear his thoughts.
Yeah.
He probably would be smart and just say nothing.
Yeah. That's the smartest move there.
Straight face emoji.
Yeah. I think you're great.
Yeah.
It's never dull with you.
And beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
And smart.
Yes.
So
I've done one of those personality tests, and mine was I was a generator.
Okay.
And that makes sense.
That makes so much sense.
Because I love helping people, and-
Yeah
... I love, "Oh, you should meet with this person.
Oh, you should meet with that person."
A connector.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
"Oh, you could do this, you could do that."
Yeah.
You know?
That makes sense.
You're that way, though, too.
Yeah. Oh, for sure. That was on my top 10.
Oh, I remember your whiteboard list you sent me.
I was like, "Great."
But you know what? It worked.
Really?
Yes, because I'm task-driven.
What did I say?
You're like, "Today you are going to
develop your website."
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, accountability.
Mm-hmm.
I just think it helps, because if you're looking at it, you know I'm looking at it,
and I see it's not done, and it's on my board, it's almost embarrassing,
right?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, "What's wrong with you?
Why don't you get your s**t done?"
Exactly. I'm like, "Okay. We both have the same amount of hours,
and she works a whole lot more than I do, so I'm going to get this
done."
I'm so happy to hear that.
Yeah. It worked, so thank you.
Yeah. So if you guys are struggling to
get that thing done, it's the most important thing, but you keep saying,
"Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow." Put it on a list and tell somebody about it.
Post that. Just post it, because now people will
ask you about it.
Well, it can't just be anyone, because I can tell, like
My boyfriend. I can say, "Hey, we're going to get this done." He'll be like, "Okay,
we're going to do it." "Oh, I didn't do it." "I know, we got lazy, huh?"
That's not helpful.
He's not your accountability person.
No.
Okay, well, what if you posted it to social media?
Maybe.
Like, "I am doing this,"
period.
Kind of like what you did.
Because then it's like-
That worked
... did you do it?
Right. Are you just lying? Not so much lying, but you know.
No, you can lie to yourself. I think there's a level of where we do
lie to ourselves.
Of course.
Yeah. And I know the spaces where I'm delusional, and I'm like- ...
I accept me for being me in that space.
That's okay.
Yeah.
The other voice in my head said it's okay.
Totally. Yeah. She's got it.
Yeah. I think social media does help to an extent to help you be accountable for
things.
Yeah.
But also, too, if you have a person that will hold you accountable.
Yeah.
Knowing who that is-
Mm-hmm
... and giving them important things you want to accomplish.
Yeah.
So.
People that you would feel like it does something for you
if you're like, "I didn't do this," and then they say, "Why not?"
Right.
Because I would ask you, "Why not?"
I know.
That's why I said it worked when you did it.
I was like, "Oh, she-- I'm doing it, because she-"
Yeah.
"... no questions asked."
And then you gave me your reasons for why not one time.
Mm-hmm.
And then it's like, imagine there's a two and then a three.
Yeah.
Because I'm not going to go away.
Yeah.
You're like, "Okay, excuses are out."
You need to pick a date that you're going to have this done by.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes it is good to say, "Hey, I haven't done this because
here's the why." And sometimes it is a legit barrier.
Totally.
And they can help you work through that.
Yes. Yeah.
You know?
Exactly. Yeah.
I think it's great to have accountability-
Yes
... person.
Definitely.
I haven't always known that to be true and kept people
in my life that are actively helping me with that, but I think it is,
you're right. That is so important.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. So use me anytime for that. Yeah. Same.
I'm going to be like, "This month, I'm going to accomplish this."
Yeah. Having your running list of the day just feels
nice, and then of the week, of the month, and then
of the year. I don't go that wild with
five-year, because that's already here.
Right.
That's in my heart and soul, in my mind, in my vision.
I feel like I know where I'm driving this whole thing.
So, a five-year plan is very abstract, and it
just, it's there. It's written in my brain.
But then the
minutia is what kills me, and I can't let it.
So, I need my daily task. I need my
week, my month at least lined
up so I know if I make it to the end of the day or the end of the week and I
didn't, oof. That's where I beat
myself up and I'm like, "Okay, tomorrow then.
Tomorrow has to be it."
I'm like that with weekly task.
Yeah.
Day to day, I'm good.
Mm-hmm.
If I say I'm doing one, two, and three, I'm doing one, two, and three.
I love it.
Now, if I say, I'm going to do, for example, I'm going to
go to the gym every day and I'm going to work out.
Mm-hmm.
If I don't go every day, then I'm like, "Ugh, I'm just not going to
go at all."
So you need accountability.
Yeah. And why am I all or nothing? Three workouts-
You negotiate with yourself
... are better than none.
Yeah. But you also negotiate with yourself it sounds like.
I do.
Yeah.
It's like, well, but three is better than-- Because I do that too.
But,
it's the spaces where we don't negotiate with ourselves, that it's
not even up for debate-
Right
... that's where we win.
Maybe
it would be great for me if I just sat back and said, "What is a non-negotiable for
you, Angelina?"
Yeah. What is it?
Right.
What are those?
Because I can't negotiate everything.
No. No, you literally can't. So, which things are you
choosing and that you're, "Okay, I'll let that slide.
I forgive me." I don't forgive me for certain things.
I think we're hard on ourself as humans.
Okay, but brushing your teeth, non-negotiable.
Well, no. Yeah, non-negotiable.
Showers?
Non-negotiable.
Nails?
Eh.
That's negotiable.
Let's see them.
Seriously?
You're good. Okay, but that's a manicure.
That's not a- Oh, now, that's a manicure.
No.
That is-
That's nothing
... you're born this way stuff.
Yeah.
That's hygiene. They look great. So,
whenever things are wild, so an unmanaged
hygiene category.
Mm-hmm.
So, all of that, you're 10 out of 10.
So, that's the space I'm talking
about.
Yeah. Well, I've never had a time in my life where I'm like, "You know
what? I'm not going to shower for a week."
Some people go through it.
Okay.
Some people do.
It's negotiable for them.
Yes, but not for me.
So working out then, we have to figure out where that falls on
the list. And if it is in the space of negotiable
because of maybe discipline, then what
level discipline would fix it? And this is for me, too. I talk to myself.
So, what I decided for me, so I don't negotiate with myself, because
I do that. It feels like it's on the list of not hygiene, so it's over
here.
You're like, "It's not as important as brushing your teeth."
Yeah. So, I have a trainer, and that's me checking with me, and
I know that's not the answer for everybody, and it is a splurge-
Mm-hmm
... but that's my way to fix myself.
I have realized that if I'm working out with someone-
Mm-hmm
... I'm there.
Yeah.
I don't know why I'm so driven to show up for people, but I have the hardest
time showing up for myself.
Use yourself against yourself.
Right?
Yeah.
How would I do that?
I have to think about that. So my boyfriend, his best friend, she
used to do the talk show with Howard Stern.
Oh my gosh.
And some of the stories that she had, I was like, "Oh my gosh." I was like,
"Did you guys ever have to burp and do things like that? What do you do?
Do you just cut it out? How does that work?" I don't know.
No, I think you just let it be.
Just let it be.
Yeah. We call it organic.
It's not called rude or no manners these days. It's called organic.
Yes.
We're not-
That's your state. This person is so themselves. Organic.
Yeah. I'm going to start saying that.
I'm organic, guys.
We could say also crass or unfiltered or without
class, but I just like organic.
Yeah. That'll work, too, in the Bay Area.
Yeah.
I can say-
Yeah
... organic. They'll think I'm
one of them.
It's not rude. It's not nice. It's just
neutral-
Yeah
... like a beige. It's almost boring when I say it that way.
Should we rebrand it?
Do you
use those words in... Okay, question.
In California-
Uh-huh
... do you use the same lingo you do when you're in Florida?
What a funny question. No.
That's so hilarious.
No, I don't, because I don't want to have them looking at me as if
I have two heads in Florida, like I'm a weirdo from
California.
But do you ever do it by accident?
Probably.
And they probably are like, "Weirdo."
People in California probably look at you like that because you probably slip with
some of the Floridian
lingo.
So I'm just like a reject from both-
Is it Floridian?
Yeah, Floridian. So really, I'm like a reject in both
states.
Just make your own lingo.
I think I did.
I mean-
I must have, right? Because if I'm going from coast to coast, and then
both are like, it's a little bit of not the flavor that the other one
likes-
Right
... on both sides. I'm like, "Mm-mm."
It's like-
"Sorry. A little salty. A little sour. A little sweet.
Too sweet?"
Yeah. So were they sweet?
Well, I'm not sure.
From your perspective. Is it California?
I think I'm-
Are we sweet here, or are they sweet in Florida?
I think both are really nice, but maybe I'm not-
Mm-hmm
... always hitting the flavor. I don't know.
I guess because no one's told me.
So I feel blissfully unaware in this moment.
Right now, I feel joy, so I think-
Yeah
... the not knowing is pleasant right now.
Interesting.
Yeah.
You kind of have the Anna Delvey effect. Do you know that?
Have you watched that on Netflix?
Oh, yes, I have. Yeah.
And her accent was nothing. It was just a bunch of-
It was never-
... whatever she wanted it to be. Yeah.
Yeah.
I love it, though.
Yeah.
I've watched it twice.
She's smart.
She was. Everybody was like, "Oh, she's a criminal." Okay, call her what you want,
but one thing you can't call her is dumb because she was brilliant.
Yeah. She played the game. The whole thing's a game, so she played
it. So I mean, I don't know. It was a good drama.
Yeah.
I enjoyed it. I know not all of it was true, but-
Right
... it was fun.
I think some of it they probably add like-
Oh, they tell you at the end, all of it-
Everybody-
Yeah
... embellishes for TV-
Yeah
... on Netflix. You know? On Netflix.
I want to say they even put a disclaimer at the end, "All of this is
true, except the parts that were made up."
Listen. Hey-
I think it says that
... that sounds like my grandson. You know what he told me?
He said, "Gigi." I said, "Yes, Aries?" He said,
"I just want you to know, I know what I know."
Okay.
All right, sir.
Yes.
He's five, and he knows what he knows.
He knows what he knows.
Yep.
Okay. Then you do what you do.
Yep.
And be who you be.
But isn't that hilarious?
That's so cute.
I know what I know. I'm going to start saying that.
At work, "Hey, I know what I know." "And that's all I know."
I like the hand with it. That gives it extra oomph. You know?
I always try to find a way to give a little extra.
Yeah. The people need it. They need it. It's flair.
It's personality. It's fun,
I think. Don't-
It's memorable.
It's memorable.
Yeah.
Yeah. It makes me want to be around you.
It's like when you're walking your dog, the same people in your
neighborhood-
Sorry, Jackson
... do walk him-
You don't get walked forever
... forever. That's abuse.
But he, okay, in all fairness, he's a Yorkie.
I think he just prefers to not.
And he'll have hip problems.
Right.
Don't Yorkies have hip problems?
Maybe eventually.
Yeah.
But for now, he holds the couch down.
Oh.
Yeah. Couch weight, like paperweights, but he's couch weight.
He has the life.
Yeah.
The life. Yeah. I can pass the same neighbor all the time, and if they're just
like, "Good morning," I don't remember.
But I have some neighbors on the corner, and they're always like, "Hi, good
morning. How's your day?"
That's probably me.
That's funny. Are you chippery in the morning?
I love the mornings-
I'm a morning person, too
... so much. You need to dial me down.
You are going to have to tell me the boundary because I feel like a level 10.
Oh, do you wake up loudly?
No, I'm not a loud person, but I do...
I'm probably like the aggressive waving.
Do you stand like... Do you put your hand on your back like this when you stand
outside, like Forrest Gump?
"Good morning."
That's funny. Well, okay, so I don't do the front porch thing,
but definitely when I walk into a workspace,
I'm greeting everybody, acknowledging their presence
probably
way more than others.
Oh, that's nice. They probably appreciate it. Some.
Some people are not morning people are probably like-
Yeah
... "You're annoying."
Yeah.
I have literally had-
And I'm like your cat.
Yeah. I've literally had coworkers tell me that.
Like, "Why are you-
Did you say thank you?
... so chippery in the morning?"
Mm-hmm.
Like, "It's annoying." I'm, "Oh, I'm sorry.
Not."
And then you just move it along.
Yeah.
Secretly, they liked it.
They do.
You gave them dopamine at some level of that.
That's probably why they acknowledged it.
Yeah.
They probably were uncomfortable because they don't get that feeling a lot.
They're like-
What was that?
Yeah, it's called joy.
Yeah. And they want to call it-
That's joy
... they're like, "I thought it was more of an irritant, not joy."
No.
No, that's joy, honey.
Yeah.
You haven't had it for a while.
Gosh, I wish I would've had that come back.
Yeah. Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah.
Okay, well, another time, because it's going to happen again.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.
We're going to have to have some... You know how they have dad jokes?
Yes. I feel like I sort of
do dad jokes.
Oh my gosh, please don't say it. Say it ain't so, because my boyfriend-
I wanted to-
... does dad jokes, and they drive me crazy.
Okay. I have my moments where I'm just like, "I feel like that was possibly
cheesy." And then sometimes I feel like, "I think that was cool."
Kids-
But if no one ever tells you, then how are you supposed to know?
Well, kids will tell you.
Well, I need a child.
And they're funny.
Is there a child in here?
My kids say, "Mom, you think you're cool, but you're not."
Thanks.
I think I'm cool.
Yeah.
They're like, "But you're not."
Are you kidding me?
No. Kids are ruthless.
They're the most dangerous gangsters on the planet.
Oh my God. Okay, maybe take the child out of here. If there's a child... Okay.
I don't want to know my rating. It's like they're giving you a, what's that
website where the stars or the movies are rated in tomatoes?
Oh, uh-huh. Rotten Tomatoes.
Yeah. So rot-
Kids do do that.
Yeah, they're like Rotten Tomatoes.
I'm going to give you-
As children
... a four-star review. You know what?
I was going to give you five, but that outfit you have on,
definitely not doing it.
Just great gangster.
Yes.
Oh, gosh. Well,
is there a camp or a course to get better
at this?
No. No, you can't prepare for them, you can't. I haven't been able to.
Goodness.
I've tried for a long time.
My sister
has three kids, and her oldest daughter, well,
her only daughter. She has a girl and two boys.
Mm-hmm.
So my niece, she just turned 12, and I was like, "Let me
host a birthday party." And I have zero
experience with kids, okay? Zero.
I saw your post when you said you were trying to be the best auntie.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. So it turned out amazing. Okay, so it went really
well, but in reflection, in retrospect,
I was just not ready. I was not ready for this.
And it's like, I just am laughing at me now, looking back
to me back then, who was like, "I'm going to plan this birthday party.
How hard could it be? It's just another party." What's more
challenging than a kid's birthday party? Nothing.
To me, I was just like, "Oh my gosh." So 12-year-old girls, I
genuinely imagined
this was a yoga theme, like I had cute mats, they're all matching with
facial stuff, spa things. So I pictured a bunch
of girls just sitting around doing pretty things and
talking about boys or whatever, like
giggling, right?
Right.
And then we do snacks that are cute and pretty, and then
take your pictures. I don't know.
Right.
But I mean, total rookie. There was
so much running, like the building was shaking, and I was-
They came for you.
It was so loud. There were so many screams, and it was just like,
"Oh my God. Why are we screaming? Why are we running?"
I was
just schooled. I was straight-up schooled.
Yes.
I couldn't tell if these people liked each other, if they were
fighting. Are they friends? I
don't know.
It is-
It was different
... and you'll never know.
You'll never know. You'll think there are times, "I have this figured
out. I know who her besties are."
Yeah.
No.
I'm like-
No
... "Okay, so we don't, why is she here?
We don't like her?"
Right.
"Should we escort her out? I'll call her mom right now."
Oh, because that's rude, Mom.
I don't mind it.
Then why did we invite? Because it'd be rude if we didn't.
But you guys don't get along. I know, but still, Mom, you
don't know her.
Yeah.
You're so unk. That's what she calls me.
So-
What is... Okay
... unk is like old.
Oh my gosh, you're unk?
I'm unk.
So then I'm also unk?
Probably. She probably, they probably talk about you.
Do cocktails make me less unk?
No, they don't care w- what we do.
Gosh, how do you get out of this?
We're never welcome. We can't sit with them.
They are like "Mean Girls." Have you seen the movie "Mean Girls"?
Yes. I need to process this. Literally, I'm not prepared for it.
It's a whole thing.
It is.
They're dangerous,
and they don't grow out of it.
I don't know who I'm more afraid of, my 26-year-old daughter or my 15-year-old
daughter.
I have paroxysmal fear with the seriousness of your face because you're actually
that serious.
I am.
We're scared of teenage girls.
They're
dangerous.
No, I believe you.
You should.
Yeah.
I'm not lying.
And then it's so funny, at the very end of the party,
I was really genuinely shocked. I'm like, "So we had fun?"
What'd they say?
I couldn't tell. They were like, "This was the best
party ever. We're going to be talking about this for
like..." They just went on and on and on.
I'm like, "I'm just joking with you."
And you have to ask yourself, are they just saying that-
Yeah
... because I'm right here?
Yes. Are you just being nice because I'm your aunt?
It really takes you down a journey of
self-confidence.
Yes. And they make you doubt yourself, like-
Oh
... am I really?
I'm still doubting myself.
Yes.
I'm like, "I think that was a good party." The pictures are cute.
Everyone looks like they're smiling, but then,
I don't know. I feel confused.
You'll find out the real truth when she's about 17.
Oh my God.
Because they'll hold onto it. Right now, I'm helping my daughter plan her 16th
birthday, so it's going to be Coachella theme, right?
I know Coachella. I'm cool.
Wrong. You do not know Coachella, and you are not cool.
Oh my gosh. Did this happen, or you're planning it right now?
No, we're planning it right now.
Okay.
Everything I show her is thumbs down.
I can't
even participate in this.
How do they know what Coachella is like?
Exactly. You're 16.
They haven't been.
They're like, "It's a festival, and you have to have color,
and it's all this music." I'm like...
Okay.
What do they think about hair clips and stickers and glitter?
All of it. She wants the little glow sticks.
Okay.
"Do you think we could get a Ferris wheel here?"
Here where?
I love that she has no boundaries. That is like, you really taught her
to dream.
Yeah.
So yeah, the answer is yes. You can get a Ferris wheel anywhere.
So I was-
Is this my daughter?
She was like, "A Ferris wheel?" I was like, "Like one you ride."
"No, Mom."
Which kind of-
Just a really big one for photos, because that's important.
So, one that's big enough to... This
is so hard.
She wants it to look real, but it can't be real because they're not going to ride
it. They only want to take pictures by it.
Okay, so we need a large stage piece, just a large
piece of metal.
And it can't move about.
Okay.
See what I'm saying?
Difficult.
How do people do it?
They work, they run away, they hide in the bathroom.
That's hilarious.
Why in the bathroom? My stomach hurts.
Just trying to have five minutes of peace.
So you think migraines are fake, too?
Absolutely, 100%.
Oh my gosh. This is just, it's eye-opening, really.
Yeah. So the next time you have someone says, "Hey, can you really help me out?
I'm having migraines,"
the first question you should ask is, "Do you have a daughter?"
A preteen?
Yeah. And if they say yes,
just tell them they need a vacation alone.
Oh my gosh. What about boys? Do you think that's easier?
I think boys make you...
They keep you on edge, like, "Oh my gosh, are they going to hurt themselves?" Or,
"Are they going to break a leg?"
Keep them alive.
Yes. That's it. Just feed them and keep them alive.
You're a funny mom.
Seriously. Just throw food at them.
See you guys later.
Oh my gosh.
They don't really want anything to do with you.
They want nothing to-- Why? I thought they loved their moms.
Because they're boys. They do.
But they don't want anything to do with-- They have other things to do, like
video games, eat food. They love you to death, but
guess what? If you're around,
you will be-
... the center of all the-- You will be the joke. How about that?
It almost sounds traumatic.
It is.
Why are people doing this? Why are they having...
I have no idea.
I was on a fertility journey, but maybe I'm like, "Swerve."
Just kidding. Change your mind.
Park the car.
You know what? I lost my keys.
Some are sweet. They're sweet until third grade.
Third grade.
Yeah.
Puberty?
I don't know, but after third grade, they're...
A******s?
They're feral. Yeah. They're feral.
That's a cleaner word. Good for you.
Yeah, definitely.
Well-
So you might want to rethink that babysit.
Well, I babysat, and it was
horrible, and I'm just-
And you're still on this journey.
But then, your friends and family are like, "Well, it's different when it's your
own." But I feel like I'm getting a real, the real-
It is different when it's your own because you can't get rid of it.
You can't say, "Okay, it was nice having you for these
eight hours. Now I'm going to get some sleep."
What if...
Because you're not going to get any sleep.
You can't just like...
Oh my gosh. This is a lot.
You have to hire a nanny.
If you have a nanny-
Okay, that's a solution. That's fine
... then yes.
She just can't get sick.
He, she, whatever, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nanny's the answer.
Yeah. People are judging us so hard right now.
That's okay.
Yeah, no, I'm fine with it.
Yeah.
I accept myself, my strengths and weaknesses. No one's perfect.
Do you know what? If parents are 100% honest,
they all are thinking, "I wish I had a nanny."
I feel like they're mostly liars then.
Yeah.
"Oh, I love it." No, nobody likes waking up at-
Nothing is more rewarding
... 2:00 in the morning full of throw-up. No one likes that.
No, you
don't.
Let's be honest.
You do not.
Yeah.
We like
the cuddles. We like the-
Mm-hmm
... the snuggles, the laughter, the holidays-
Yeah
... cute outfits.
The funny stories that you just told me-
Yes
... that they say.
Exactly.
Yeah.
My daughter thought she was a pirate.
She was two years old. She'd knock on the door.
"Who's there?" "It's me." "Me who?" "Me Pate."
I'm all, "Okay." You know? So that's the fun
part.
Man, at that hour, I don't know that I would even respond.
But maybe your sleep changes-
It does
... as they say.
I think women are made to-
... our sleep pattern. If you're a deep sleeper, once you have children-
Mm-hmm
... something biologically changes in you to where you are now a light
sleeper.
Wow.
You will hear everything.
Wow, there goes your REM, there goes your memory-
Yes
... there goes your deep restorative sleep.
Okay.
That's why we're either neurotic or depressed.
It's one of the two.
This is hilarious. Oh my gosh.
Kids are funny.
Yeah.
Fun-E.
I'm not sure.
They're either really fun, or they have you on E. Fun-E.
Oh my gosh.
That's the truth.
Wow. I feel like this is just a real moment for me to just-- I'm going to
just take it in.
You should.
Yeah.
If you ever want to babysit a teenager, I'll volunteer.
I feel terrified a bit-
You should
... of teenagers now.
Yeah, they're scary.
It's just confusing.
They're confused.
Yeah.
And then they confuse us.
But can't you just talk to them like...
That's funny. Can't you just talk to them? Yeah.
Can't you just talk to them with logic?
No.
Does logic get us out of this bind?
It depends on the
child.
Okay.
Because my nine-year-old-
Is there anybody-
... you could give him logic.
Yeah.
My 26-year-old, you can give her logic.
Yeah.
You got it taken care of.
Yeah.
The other ones, you can
do Pictionary, whatever.
Can you just run them? Like, "You need to do a few laps.
You need to do some push-ups."
Oh, no.
Like physical exertion.
Yeah. No.
No?
No. Some are just feral. Like seriously, they're feral.
I'm standing my ground on that. And
I'm an experienced parent. I have five children.
You have five children?
Yes.
How did this not come out before?
I don't know.
Where has this been the whole time? Where are they?
I'm hiding them. No, I'm just kidding.
My oldest is 32.
I wouldn't have counted, but I genuinely didn't count as you mentioned them.
Oh.
Because five is an abnormal number, it's not common, right?
Yeah.
Most people stop at two.
I had my tubes tied at three.
Okay.
But I had them undone, and I had two more.
Oh, wow.
So my-
That's love
... my doctor said...
I said, "I know I should be analyzed.
I'm probably a little psychotic or insane." She goes, "Or you're
courageous." She goes, "But with that being said, sometimes to
be courageous, you have to have some moments of insanity."
I was like, "Are you complimenting me or not?
I don't know what's going on here."
She's a teenager. How old was this doctor?
She's retired now.
And I was like, "Okay."
Oh my God.
So-
Can we just be straight up around here?
That's why I try to be just straight. Like, what?
These conversations.
It's crazy. Life is crazy.
It's just so confusing, like the sugarcoating and
just-
With everything.
Yeah. It's like she was saying yes, she was validating you nicely-
Yes
... softly,
when you're like, "No, this is psychotic, right?"
Yes.
And she's like, "No, because I would never use that language, but
slightly insane."
Yes. If I was her, I'd be like, "What is wrong with you?"
Gosh.
Yeah, I agree, you need a psych eval. I agree 100%.
I would've been that doctor.
Wait. Okay, what was your age again?
So that was 16 years ago, so
I don't know. So I was probably 31.
With your fifth s**t. Okay.
Yeah.
Wow.
Interesting. Okay.
Well, hey-
I love my kids
... she did a good job.
I love my kids when I'm not trying to strangle them. Just kidding.
I literally wouldn't strangle my kids.
CPS.
Right.
Are there lights and sirens?
I get home, they're there. I'm like, "Oh."
Like, "Oh, hey. So, what I meant was..."
That's a metaphor, metaphor.
Yeah. Yeah. I know.
You can't really-
It's hard, huh?
Life is... The world has just changed a lot.
Yeah. I can imagine. I feel like I'm barely grown up.
I'm raising myself right now.
I
know that you said you just shift, so I just would expect the shift to
happen.
Mm-hmm.
But then what if it just doesn't happen?
Well,
just act feral. They do it. It works for them. Why can't we?
We're just going to wing it.
I love it.
It didn't happen for me, so we're just going to wing it from here on out.
I love it. That's why I guess there's mom groups, and there's
girls' night out.
There's certain things that click, but honestly,
everybody, it's their first time being a parent.
Yeah.
Nobody was born a parent, so everybody has to go through that.
Yeah.
And honestly, I don't know if it still clicked for me.
I kind of analyze some things sometimes.
I was like,
"Should I really have woken up when she fell down those stairs?" Or,
"They said I was going to be a light sleeper, but I ran out.
I didn't hear that."
Oh my gosh.
I'm just kidding.
Yeah. There's no rules.
No.
It's just figure it out.
Keep them alive, figure it out, and hope for the best.
I think that's what makes it hard for a lot of women, because honestly, they
read these books, and they're like-
Yeah
... "This is how it's all going to happen-
Mm-hmm
... and it's not happening for me that way." And then they beat themselves up.
Yeah.
And you can't.
Yeah.
With motherhood, you have to laugh through the whole thing.
You're doing a good job of it. I love the stories-
Yeah
...
that you shared with me.
Between me, my sister, and brother, I definitely see the
differences in how we were raised.
It's dramatically different, and so it's funny
to circle back as an adult and just talk.
My reflection is just wildly different.
And so, I'm the firstborn, so
I had the strictest experience. I was highly regulated,
right? My food was very specific and healthy, and like-
I don't know. My sister, she had asthma, so
everything was catered to her because she was like, "Don't upset her."
Mm-hmm.
"She'll have an asthma attack."
Right.
She was always the one that was, I don't know, she's had a different experience.
And then my brother, he's the prized child, because he's the boy.
So,
yeah, it's just different.
It's funny that you say that because
you can have a set of siblings, right,
that were raised by both the same parents.
Mm-hmm.
And they all have a different perspective-
Yeah
... of how their childhood was.
Yeah.
I wish somebody would document, just record your whole life.
Yeah.
Right? It could be done now. Maybe not back then, but-
Right
... it can be done now. Just document.
And did the parents really change, or is it just
their perception-
Different
... the kids' perception-
Yeah
... of how they think things were? Because my kids, they will
swear that I only like my oldest.
Don't you think there's always a favorite, though?
There is.
No one's even listening. Tell me
No, I'm very honest with this. So, I always say parents who say they
don't have a favorite are not being truthful.
Yeah.
And having a favorite child doesn't mean you love them
more. That doesn't.
Yeah.
It means you can relate with them more.
Yeah.
You can empathize with them more.
Yeah.
You can cry with them.
Yeah.
You understand each other.
Yeah.
That's why my favorite is my favorite.
Yeah.
But I love all my children the same.
Yeah.
But am I going to try to,
"Hey, I want you to understand this is what I'm going through." Because they're
going to be like,
"You're not cool. Can you leave us alone?
We're trying to listen to this music video."
She's going to be not cool.
And my oldest will be like, "Tell me what's going on.
I'll listen to you."
Oh my God. That's so everything.
Yeah.
What a sweetheart.
But the other ones are just like, "Bye, lady."
They're like, "Hope you-
"Did you bring pizza?"
... hope you figure it out."
Yeah.
"Good luck." It's like, what?
Exactly.
Oh my God, that's just wild.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is.
Wow. Yeah, I feel like
now circling back, with
my relationship with my parents, it's unique because my dad,
he's 90, but
I feel like he gets me, so I don't have to say as much.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like there's a lot that, like you're saying, there's a language,
right, and a style. So he's an easy,
low-maintenance relationship to me.
But a higher maintenance relationship where there's like, we've got
walls to climb-
Right
... is my mom, and she's the sweetest thing.
She is so sweet. Her intentions are so good, I
think. But it's like I speak a different
language to her, and I
feel
gravely misunderstood
all the time in every conversation to where it feels like
work.
Right.
And I don't know what to do with that.
You-
Good intentions, but misunderstandings,
constant.
It's probably because you guys have different personalities.
Yeah.
I feel like that with my oldest daughter.
Yeah.
And
she is a lot smarter than me.
I'm just going to be honest. She's wired different than I am.
But is she looking down on you, judging you like you're an idiot?
Am I doing that?
I think so, maybe.
Yeah. If I'm being honest, I do
think so.
Does that make her-
Or she just feels-
Like-
... frustrated, like-
Yeah
... "Oh, my mom just doesn't get it."
My mom doesn't get it.
I feel frustration.
See? Oh my God.
Yeah.
Maybe you guys could call each other.
No, but okay, so we could call each other, and we could talk all day.
No, I'm saying you and my daughter.
Oh, yeah. Okay, no.
But how are we going to help our moms understand us?
No, we would say, I think the answer would
be that we're just
nice, and there's some level
of accepting that we're not going to fully
reach each other, and
I don't need you to fully understand, and just, I don't know,
somewhat just niceties.
Were you always independent as a kid?
And that makes me cringe. Yes, I was.
So-
The niceties gross me out. That's why I feel like so, it feels-
You don't like hugs?
No, I
don't know.
My daughter will literally-
I'm not-
... tense up
... I guess, really used to them.
That's how she is.
Yeah. I like my space. I feel like a spatial awareness, and
anybody bumping me, it gravely bothers me.
Oh, yeah. See, I think it probably comes from you guys being
so independent that-
Yeah
... as moms, you're busy with other children, and you're like, "I don't have to
worry about that one because that one's not-
Yeah
... going to burn the house down, she can do a dress herself."
Since I was 17, I've been on my own. I've been out there working-
Yeah
... having several jobs, doing my thing.
So whenever I am in, let's say, the kitchen, and we're
doing things,
just even where you step and move, I'm like-
Right
... "Okay, can you step over there?
Can you-
Yeah.
"Let me invite you to the side."
I think, we
can't read
you. We don't know when you're in need of something.
Rather, it is-
Yes
... some space-
Yes
... a hug-
Yes
... or understanding.
Yes.
Because-
Ooh, that's-
... you've been so independent
... so exactly it. Yes. But, I guess I would say,
"Hey, I'm not okay. I'm really hurting." I feel like I
use my words. I don't know. But then maybe she hasn't caught that
pattern.
Right. Or maybe she hears something different.
Yeah.
When you say, "I'm really not doing okay," maybe she thinks that means,
"Leave me alone."
Interesting.
When you could be meaning, "Just give me a hug."
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Okay. No, that's so helpful, honestly, because it is
literally climbing a wall, and it's so much good intention,
but I'm like
OMG
I'm telling you, parenting's hard. It's the hardest thing ever.
Maybe I was the a*****e kid.
Well, I'm not going to say.
Yep.
I'm not going to say.
For sure.
She probably prays for you, your poor mom. She probably prays for your peace.
Oh, no, she did.
She thought I was going to be a total loser.
I was the one that she worried the most, that she cried the most about.
Aw.
Yeah.
But I always knew I was going to not be,
I guess, a loser, but
whatever definition goes with that, whatever she imagined
would be the worst-case scenario model.
She probably didn't think you were going to be a loser.
She probably thought, "I hope she doesn't make the wrong
decisions."
Constantly, yeah.
I think that's every parent's-
Yeah
... worry.
Yeah.
Don't want you to make the wrong decisions, don't want you to learn the hard way.
But it's like watching a child run
into oncoming traffic.
Ugh, okay, yeah.
As they become older.
Yeah.
It's like you can watch it, but there's nothing you can do about it.
Yeah.
You're too far away.
Yeah.
Because now they're older, and you don't really have a say in their life, or
they're trying-
Yeah
... to find their own independence.
Yes.
And then you're kind of just sad, like, "What happened to my baby?"
Yeah, no, that's what I feel like I'm experiencing.
And then she's trying to figure out where she clicks into that, because I
don't need mothering.
She brought me almonds, and she's like, "Here, make sure you eat 12." And I'm like,
"Okay.
I shall eat 12."
Can I tell you something, though? As a mom, you
don't see your children as adults.
That's how I feel. I feel like a child.
I literally look at my daughter at times, and I'm like,
"You look just like you did in second grade."
Yeah. I think that look is exactly what I'm experiencing, and it
feels so strange because I'm like, "I don't know
what to do with that," but like your other kid, "I hope you figure it out."
Hey.
And that's horrible.
Yeah.
And it's not a lack of love, because the love is there, but it's just the
interaction. A basic
low level of me being a human,
I'm just like,
"Okay." It's hard. It definitely is hard, and it's not
a natural flow.
So, you're like, "It's hard being a daughter." She's like, "It's hard being a mom."
Yeah.
Life is hard.
Yeah. Oh my goodness, yeah. But definitely, there's
appreciation and-
Right
... love there, so the basics
are still covered with the rest of the things that matter.
So is it more comfortable for you to have conversations with your dad
and just kind of be around him?
Yeah.
I am not team dad.
Not your dad, just dads in general, because I'm a mom.
Yeah, if you were to put this into a physics
category or an energy
space that has math, and you're doing this
equation because you have this gigantic chalkboard, and you're like,
"Okay, now energy can't be created or destroyed." So, the end of this
equation is that it takes more energy with Mom than it does with Dad.
Yeah.
That's the math.
And a lot of it, too, is because men don't generally have
to discipline, or
they're not going to nag their daughter to, "Hey, brush your teeth, wear clean
clothes."
Zero nagging.
Yeah.
Just support.
Yep.
And that is nice.
Yeah, but moms probably would've loved that role.
I'm telling you. You know what I mean?
Interesting.
Yeah. Okay, but then at some point, you can transition, though,
right? You don't have to always stay there, because at some point,
when your kids age out... Do we age?
No, you don't.
You get to age out?
You don't age out.
Geez.
Haven't you heard the country song, "You'll Always Be My Baby?"
No.
That's the reality.
I want to age out.
You're not. You don't get to.
Okay.
So.
I feel like I'm 12 right now.
You don't get to age out. Your mom's always going to be your mom, and she's never
going to
see you as a full-grown independent adult.
No.
She'll know it.
I'm not a doctor. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. But oddly, whenever she actually does call me Dr.
Savelli, I'm like, "Can you stop?"
See? You don't know what you want either. See what I'm saying about confusion?
No, it's high maintenance. I'm like, "Can you just be normal?"
Kids are confused, therefore, they make the parents confused.
My gosh. I am the teenager.
This is interesting. Okay, psychoanalyze me,
Angelina.
No, you got the psycho part.
Can we delete this?
All right. I want nobody to know my real truth.
You wanted the truth.
Oh, well, thank you so much for coming on.
I know it's-
Of course
... pretty late, but is there anything that if somebody did want to reach you, is
there any contact information that you'd want to provide?
Well, I have the website. Anyone can go to Candor Consulting, and when you put
Bakersfield, I automatically populate through there, and
my phone number's on there, and they can reach me that way.
That's C-A-N-D-O-R?
Yeah.
Candor?
Candor.
Okay.
Talked about honesty, transparency.
It's all in the name.
Just my flavor. I love it.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Hope you guys enjoyed listening, and that's White Coat Black Sheep.