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The "No BS" version of how startups are really built, taught by actual startup Founders who have lived through all of it. Hosts Wil Schroter and Ryan Rutan talk candidly about the intense struggles Founders face both personally and professionally as they try to turn their idea into something that will change the world.
Welcome back to their episode
of the Startup Therapy Podcast.
This is Ryan Rutan joint,
as always by my friend, the
founder, and CO of startups.com.
Will Schroeder will have
you ever walked into
something that you've built
entirely from scratch?
Ground up, zero to one moment.
Then wandered through the
doors and just felt like
you no longer belong there.
A lot.
There was not like many
times, but like, like an
overwhelming feeling of that.
Early in my career, uh, when
I was building a company,
companies started getting
big, like real big as it's
getting bigger, you know,
I'm still young at time.
I'm like 26 as it's
getting bigger.
I'm sitting there going.
Okay.
Well, you know, I used to
build websites that was,
you know, part, part of
what we did as an agency.
And I, yeah.
I don't really do
any code anymore.
And now I don't do
any design anymore.
Yeah.
And now I don't really do
the, the strategy anymore.
And one day I walk in and
I'm like, what do I do here?
Right.
Yeah.
Like, I'm managing, I'm, I'm
having meetings about meetings.
I don't produce a goddamn thing.
Yeah.
And it was miserable.
Yeah.
Miserable.
Right.
It's funny, ma'am,
you just described it.
I had the same
thing happen to me.
I've seen this happen with
countless founders where
it's like one day you just
walk in, it's as if you
walk into a glass wall.
It felt that way to me.
It was like, it was such a
sudden sort of thing where
it's like I was the last
one to kind of know that the
company had had moved on and
that I no longer fit there.
And it, it felt like
such a betrayal of
everything I'd built.
I'm like.
This is only all here
because of me, but now
I don't need to be here.
Like, what the
f Like I
didn't know how to deal with it.
Let me tee that up a bit.
So a lot of times what'll
happen is, you know, you and
I'll talk to founders and
you can tell that like they
appreciate what they've built.
Yeah.
But they don't like
their job anymore.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, a hundred percent.
And,
and I guarantee we've got a
fair amount of people that are
listening to this, this episode
be like, yeah, that's me.
And but here's the problem.
We feel guilty about it.
We feel guilty.
That we don't like the job
because it makes us ungrateful.
I walk in and I remember at
the time, you know, we just
built these two new a hundred
thousand square foot buildings.
We had, you know, six or 700
people at the time, and I'm
like, I should be so proud
of what we have here, and I
am, and I don't like my job.
And, and this isn't me being
like, entitled, I just didn't
like what I was doing anymore.
Like, there's nothing
wrong with that.
I, but.
Definitely didn't know that.
It's funny, we go through
some of those things at the
early stages too, right?
Where it's like there are lots
of jobs that have to be done.
As a startup founder,
you're doing it all right?
It's chef cook,
bottle washer, right?
You're doing it all.
And we're sort of used to it at
that phase, but I think we get
into like where we start to hit
our stride and our superpower,
the company starts to grow
based on that, and then all of
a sudden that goes away again.
And you're like, but
now what I'm doing?
Isn't what I like to be doing.
I, I know I've shared this
with you before, but there
was a point at which I was
running my agency, you know,
back in the dark ages and it
had been like a two week period
when I was looking back at
like my, my daily journals.
It'd been like a two week period
where I had done absolutely
nothing but keep the three most
important teams in the business
from fighting with each other.
I had just become like,
I was just dad and I was
unprepared to be a father.
At that point, I was right.
20 at this point.
21,
yeah.
And look, and, and
some people love it.
Some people like that's
what they wanna do.
Like I remember, I remember
when I was growing up and
I was reading about like
superstar CEOs, right?
The Jack Welch era, right?
Where it was like you
were prided on being
an employee, right?
Like now it's all, if you're
not the founder, no one cares.
Right.
But that was a different era
where like it, you were the
silver-haired 60-year-old
that finally made it to the,
the corner office type thing.
Yeah.
Climbed your way from,
yeah, from nowhere to you.
I It
was all about the, a
career trajectory, right?
Yeah.
Like that all got turned on
its head in the startup world
where you're like 23 in the
CE and you kind of started
backward, but not too long ago,
or maybe it was a long time
ago, and I'm just getting old.
Not too long ago, it was all
about moving up to the C-suite.
Those people were
career managers.
Like the way you got there,
like, here's the thing,
you couldn't have possibly
been prior to that, right?
You couldn't have possibly
been Mark Zuckerberg
and you just coded your
way to the top, right?
Like you coded and you
wound up at the top 'cause
you started at the top.
And so it fascinates me
that like in this, in
kinda this new world.
These folks that came in as
like the really talented coder,
let's say just as an example,
wake up one day and they're
like, I'm a manager now.
Like, what the
hell just happened?
It's thrust on you.
It's thrust on you.
Yeah.
I mean that's the, the, going
back to management philosophy
from that same period of
time, that's when the Peter
principle was born, right?
Where you get promoted
up to your highest
level of inefficiency.
You're, you are a
great junior coder.
We'll make you a,
a senior coder.
You're a great senior coder.
We'll make you a, whatever
the next level of that is.
Then you become a director
of technology or something
where now you're no
longer coding, you're
managing the other coders.
'cause you were a great coder.
Turns out you've never
managed anybody before.
I watched that happen.
Right, because as we were
scaling you, as we were
adding more and more people,
same exact thing you said.
Yeah.
Specifically.
I remember one of our, our
senior developers kept getting
promoted Uhhuh, and when I
say kept getting promoted, it
didn't happen outta nowhere.
I was promoting, but as I was
watching it happen, I saw him
get more and more uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
Good, smart guy, right?
Yep.
I could tell he was getting
moved to the top of the ranks
only because he had the senior
most technical knowledge.
Yeah.
Right.
Like he was more technical
than anyone else.
But as a manager, like he,
he wasn't gifted in any way.
Yeah, right.
To your point, he just
kept getting pushed there.
The irony was the guy pushing
him was having the same
exact problem, which was me.
Right.
I was like, maybe
you just wanted
company for the misery.
Like,
yeah, yeah, I
gotta make sure I'm
not alone in this misery.
So we get to this point where
like the company that we
built right, was built for
who we were, not who we are.
And I think that's a
hard thing for us to
step back and say, huh.
And I think for a lot
of reasons, one of
them for me was that.
When I realized I was doing
management, and you've drawn
this distinction before too,
which is the difference between
management and leadership.
I'm not even gonna go
as far as as leadership.
It wasn't that I was like
there were points where I was
leading the company versus
versus managing these people.
My own individual ability
to produce felt taken away.
And so for me, right.
That feeling that was the most
overwhelming, like the literal,
like choking out my oxygen
anxiety level, like worrying
about this stuff was when it
would feel like because I had
to manage people, I couldn't
go do things that I found more
important, more engaging, more
exciting, more valuable, right?
Like whether that was going and
trying to land a new client,
whether that was figuring out
a new way to deliver something,
whether that was figuring out
whether we should move from,
you know, move to cold fusion,
whatever it was, you know, a
hundred thousand years ago in.
So, you know, like that to
me was a big part of it.
And so I think fold.
Like I also wasn't a
talented manager by any
stretch of the imagination.
I was not right.
I, I'd had no experience.
I had never even really
been managed because
I was so damn young.
I'd never had a real, real job.
And so part of it was.
Absolutely a lack of skill and,
and probably a rightful amount
of fear against management.
Sure, sure.
Because I didn't know
what I was doing.
But the other part of it
was it, like it took the
fun away from me even had
I been a talented manager.
It's sort of like this, I
look at it this way, if you're
Christiana Ronaldo, and he's
getting old now, so we may be
getting close to this point,
but let's say Christiana
Ronaldo from, from five years
ago, six years ago, prime peak
performance, and all of a sudden
you're like, you know what?
This guy's the best
player in the world.
We should make him a coach
so we can have a bunch
more really great players.
Hold aside that he may not
even be a good manager.
Do you think that guy wants
to be watching the game?
That's how I felt every single
time I was managing people felt
like I'm watching the game and
having to coach them through it.
I'm like, I want to
go kick the damn ball.
I don't wanna be off the field.
Painful, super painful.
I was like, in short order.
I was like, man, I missed the
days when we'd all stay up
all night, like working on a
project and just crushing it.
Yes.
And and now it's like, yeah,
no one wants to do that.
No.
Right.
Like the only reason we did that
is 'cause you, you did it right.
Like, you know, you
pushed us to that end.
I don't know if
you'll remember this.
There was a point at which
you remember when we.
We were refinishing
the upper floors in the
offices on Manning, right?
Mm-hmm.
And we had to move
everybody to the basement.
You remember that?
Where everybody went
to the basement for a
little bit and like we
were down there basement.
It was a war zone.
We had video game
machines down there.
We had weight racks.
We had desks piled
on top of each other.
Yep.
And on two or three occasions
I tried to rally, like,
let's pull an all-nighter
and get this done.
Let's bang through
these clients, whatever.
And it was like, I was
like, yeah, I felt like,
who was the politician
that did that awful yell.
Do you remember that?
Scream heard around
the world where he was.
Anyways, there was no
answer to my rally cry.
I was like, let's do it.
And everybody else is like,
um, uh, time for drinks or
whatever, and they're pew gone.
Right.
Such a bad feeling.
I think it's hard for us,
uh, you know, as the founders
to take stock in that.
Yeah.
And to be able to say, ah, okay.
The good old days.
We're, we're only good for me.
Right.
Or said differently.
Like, you know, there's always
people like, oh my God, I
remember when the company
was smaller and we all hung
out and blah, blah, blah.
And that's great.
Yeah.
But it's also, you have to
take stock and recognize
that like, that's over.
It's the guy who keeps
talking about that one
party from college, and
you're like, no, I get it.
I, I get it.
It was fun.
That was 20 years ago.
You were great.
Yeah,
but I get it right.
Uh, like that part of is
long since over, and I think
as managers, as founders,
we, we get into this spot
where we long for those days.
And what's so hard is we're
the one in control of where
this company is gone, but the
company evolves beyond us.
Yeah.
That's what this is all about.
The company evolves beyond us.
It's one thing when it evolves,
evolves beyond everybody else.
It's really hard when
it evolves beyond us.
So the question becomes.
Do we wanna grow with it?
Do we wanna change?
It's hard, and I think this
is, it's, it's a question that
it can be really difficult
to answer at that point.
The point where you
have to answer it.
Because you might not
be well armed for it.
Right.
You're, you're now
realizing that there's
a new, new world order.
I have to have a
different set of skills.
I have to have a different set.
Yep.
And, and so you're,
you're simultaneously
asked, being asked, do
you want to do this thing?
Are you capable of doing this?
You know, even if you say
you want to, can you do it?
We've seen this happen too,
like sometimes companies
legitimately outgrow the
founder or we see it outgrow
one of the founding members.
I, I think you and I have
used the example before where
like, your best buddy from
university was a talented coder.
So you make him your
technical co-founder at CTO.
Five years later when he
has to run a dev team,
it doesn't work anymore.
It's just broken.
It can't do it.
Right?
It doesn't work.
And so it's at that point
where I think it becomes
really difficult to say.
Do I even have enough
information now to
assess whether or not I
should want to do this?
And we feel guilty
for not doing it.
Yeah.
'cause we're like, you know,
let's say we've raised,
raised money right now,
we're like, look, the whole
point was to grow this thing.
Or at least, so I thought, um,
I hadn't, I hadn't experienced
this part where I didn't
realize that as this thing
grew, I'd become less happy.
But now this thing has grown.
It's a real Joby type job.
I don't like it.
Like I just like, I don't
get to do the things that I
enjoyed and how we got here.
I'm surrounded by a bunch
of people that I kind
of had to hire 'cause
we needed the HR person.
Yeah, we needed
the CFO we needed.
But I don't really like them.
I don't wanna spend
more time with them.
I don't think a lot of
people talk about this.
You start to look
around and you're like.
If this company was
hiring, I wouldn't apply.
Right?
Yeah, exactly.
It's my own company.
Right, because it's Because
it's changed so much.
Yeah.
You've gone from, you went
from Play-Doh to Legos, right?
It went from full
on, freeform, messy.
Make it into whatever you
want, smashed it up, start
over again easily as you
can to something where
everything's now standardized.
Everything came with an
instruction set there.
There's a clear thing we have
to go do, and we just have
to repeat that over and over
and over again, and all of
a sudden it's like, yeah, I
don't wanna do that anymore.
I sat across from the, the guy
I mentioned that we'd kinda
made like a CTO, if you will.
I had definitely, he wouldn't
say it, but I could definitely
read it on his face that he
was clearly in a place where
like he just wasn't happy.
Yeah.
And so I sat down with him.
We were sitting down
with him in my office
and what's funny is like.
I'm talking to him like now.
I remember talking to him as if
he was like this really old guy.
Right.
And I felt awkward that I
was 26 and he was really
old and he had a family.
Like, again, don't tell me the
age.
Please don't tell us the age.
Don't say it out loud.
Will
32. Oh, he was 32.
God.
Right.
I was talking to
him like he was 72.
Okay.
And I, I remember being like,
you know, at this point in
your career, in your life.
Yeah.
You know, like where things
have changed or I mean.
I gotta give you an idea where
my perspective was, right?
Anyway, anyway, I'm
like, you know, you don't
have to be a manager.
You're, you're an
amazing developer.
You amazing code, amazing
a, uh, systems architect.
Do you want to just do that?
And, and I remember like.
Just this moment, this look
on his face, like I can,
I can.
Yeah.
Like, like, yeah, I
can just do what I enjoy.
And again, I could
tell we'd kind of like
pushed him into this,
but how lucky was he in that
moment to have somebody else
that could tell him that?
Yeah.
As a founder, no one tells
you that.
No one tells you that.
Right, right.
And and I think that a big
part of that is because
if you think about that
decision, if you think about
what's wrapped up in that.
It's a highly contrasted
coin with two sides, right?
Because if you refuse to evolve,
is that just founder immaturity?
Are you just not mature
enough to do this?
Or is it like the exact
opposite, which is that you
are so self-aware that you know
you're not capable of, of doing
this thing and damn, are those
two things a long way apart with
you sitting in the middle going,
I don't know, I just don't know.
You know something that's
really funny about everything
we talk about here is
that none of it is new.
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.
That's kind of what
we're here to do.
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually
solve these problems all
dayLong@groups.startups.com.
So if.
Any of this sounds familiar.
Stop guessing about what to do.
Let us just give you the answers
to the test and be done with it.
Okay?
So, so if we're being
introspective about it and
we say, Hey, on the one hand,
like, I'm kind of committed
to this thing, right?
You know, uh, whether I
raise money or whether I
use my own money, whatever.
Like it's, it's my baby, right?
Like, I'm kind of
committed to it.
If I don't move
forward with this.
What does that actually mean?
Like, it, it's one thing for
you and I to say, like, like
kind of amorphously, Hey,
you don't have to, you know,
love it or you, you might not
like your job, but you still
have to respond in some way.
And so here are like the, the
two critical decision points.
One is, here's
what I want to do.
Like, maybe I just wanna go
back to building product or
do sales, or do whatever.
And then here's what I think
I have to do when and when
I say I think I have to do,
because in my mind, I believe
that if I don't keep doing
that thing, that thing that
I don't want to do, that I'm
gonna be in a position where I'm
gonna get fired or, you know,
uh, the board or, or my, my
employees or whatever are gonna
look down on me part of it.
And most people just
don't understand this.
It's just being honest.
If this is a job, you know
that, that I'm, I'm here to
do the CEO job or, you know,
c-level job, whatever it is.
I get it.
I get it.
And, and, and I'm
willing to do it.
Right.
I think part of it is, this
isn't me just being arrogant,
like, you know, or entitled.
Right.
I'm willing to do the job I am.
Yeah.
Yeah.
However, the job that I'd really
like to do, the one that I think
I could be more effective at.
Is this, by the way, just
before I complete that
thought, a lot of times what
that thing is, Ryan, and I
think you've seen this with
plenty of other companies, is
like day-to-day management.
Yeah.
Like, like ops.
Yeah.
Right?
Like and so there are some
people that love it.
No, really that's to the
point that go find them.
And I remember at the time.
I had found a, a person that
was working for us, uh, that
was on the staff, I should say.
And she was amazing.
And I remember,
I remember thinking,
she's so experienced.
She's been around for so long.
She was 31.
And, and again, she was
61 in my mind, you know?
Right, right.
It's an
entirely different decade.
Yeah, exactly.
And, uh, and so, you know, I
brought her in to kind of be
that, that, that ops COO person.
And it worked out great.
And it worked out great.
But it made me realize how
much I hated that job and how
much it becomes obvious to
everyone that works with you,
that you don't like that job.
Yeah.
And becomes pretty obvious
that they also don't like
the way you do that job.
That's what I'm cases, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Like not only do you not
like it, I don't like it
when you do it either.
Right.
You're just not a great manager.
Go away.
Which is the, the the other
part that I wanna put in here.
Think about the cost.
Oh yeah.
Of doing the job you
don't like poorly.
Like if you're phoning it in
or trying your hardest and
you're just not that good at it.
Right.
Take, go back to my
developer guy, my CTO guy.
Right.
In his case, he's shown up
every day and he's doing
a job, the the CTO manager
job, or he's doing, you
know, performance reports
and all this bullshit, right?
And, but what he wants to
be doing is writing code,
so it becomes pretty obvious
to all the people that
work with him that he'd
rather be writing code Yep.
Than doing your
performance review.
Right.
And so I think the same
with the, you know, the, the
leadership, the founders,
what, what have you.
Your team can tell if
you're doing a job you
don't want to do for sure.
And that's a really bad look.
Yeah.
And then sometimes there's such
a huge contrast to it too, which
I think part of why they can
understand that, that you're,
you're mailing it in because
they have seen you on fire.
They have seen you.
At peak performance, they have
seen you doing a thing that you
really love, which is probably
why they decided to follow
you into startup, dim in the
first place a hundred percent.
And now you're this
entirely different human
that no longer fits.
Yeah.
And, and again, there's
an enthusiasm that
comes with it, right?
Yeah.
Never at any point did I
walk into a meeting about
an upcoming meeting with
any level of enthusiasm.
Right.
Like I'm checking my phone
or my watch the entire time.
Yeah.
Uh, during the meeting.
Be like, how can I get outta
the meeting that I started?
Whereas like if we're,
if you and I are on a
whiteboard developing product
Yeah,
we're brainstorming.
I could be there forever.
Yeah, exactly.
Like someone will
have to come in
and tube fetus at some
point, like we're Yeah,
exactly.
Right.
So part of what we're talking
about is how it affects us
as founders so that you know,
whether or not we've grown.
I think also by proxy, you know,
we're also talking about how
do we see this in, in our team.
Right where we've essentially
put people in positions that
they probably shouldn't be in,
or we, we haven't stopped to
maybe reaffirm, is this really
what you want to keep doing?
Yeah.
And, and again, I think
it's, it can be a really hard
question because there's so
many other influences I. You
know, depending on like, is
the business on an upswing?
Is the business on a downswing?
Has it plateaued and
just been doing the same
thing for a long time?
That can absolutely change
your emotional state, which is
clearly gonna impact your, your
ability to make the decision.
And look, I think part
of it for me was, was the
realization that I. Adapting
my role didn't mean changing
who I was at that point.
It meant letting go of
something that, that I was
hating so that I could do what
I loved, and I, I was able to
find a way to, to do that at
that point, which was nice.
But it was difficult, right?
The first was the
acknowledgement of, oh, I'm
actually not good at this.
And then having to make the
decision that yes, there
was probably some effort
that I could put into it,
that I could, you know, the,
the irony being that I was
in a business management
track at the time, right.
I was in university for, right,
for this specifically, uh, it
tells you something about the
quality of that education.
Um, and so.
It really came down to me
having to just recognize it
first and then become okay
with the idea of letting it go
versus saying, well, no, I, I
figured this other stuff out.
I'll have to figure this
out too, and not forcing
myself through that keyhole.
Right.
That was, that was the
really hard part for me.
I looked at it as a failure.
I looked at it as a hundred
percent, and again, and
I was young in my career,
so I, I honestly just
didn't know any better yet.
I looked at it as, look,
you did this thing.
You're now a CEO of a company.
Here's how you're expected
to act and behave and, and,
and how you're supposed
to enjoy it and embrace
it, and all these things.
And I, I was just like, yeah,
but I don't, like, I get
it and I'm, I'm grateful.
This wasn't a lack of gratitude.
I'm grateful yeah, for
this opportunity, but
I don't want this job.
Yeah.
It's a very weird thing
to say as the leadership
of an organization.
Yeah.
Like I get it, but I
don't want this job.
I mean, like your parents saying
like, I get that we're supposed
to look after you, but yeah,
you're kind of on your own.
Well, it goes back to what,
what I said before when you
were, you were going through
the, that scenario, it's
like, but luckily somebody
else told them that, right?
Mm-hmm.
Somebody else was able
to say like, Hey, what if
you just didn't do this?
Like there's just nobody
else to, not only is there
nobody else to tell you
that there isn't even really
anybody else for you to tell.
It's a conversation you have
with yourself and nobody else.
Like that's super uncomfortable.
Right.
Particularly at at a time where
you're questioning who you are.
Also, this is a tough one.
Sometimes the best place for you
isn't at that company at all.
That's the path that I took.
I. Right.
I essentially quit
my own company.
Now, with that being said,
I realized that the company
had grown to a point where
it didn't really matter
if I was there anymore.
So like when I say quit, it
wasn't like I was rage quitting.
I was like, you know,
it kind of, I've done
what I needed to do.
There's like, if, if,
if we grow 10 x more.
It'll make no difference.
What's me being there will
make no difference whatsoever.
Yeah.
Which is kind of hard, uh,
self-realization, but, so I just
went and go, did something else.
Right.
Started eight other companies.
Yeah.
I think I had at least the,
the self-awareness to realize
that what I was doing, even
though it was successful, I.
It wasn't really what
I wanted to be doing.
Yeah.
And, and I think that
that's a hard call to make.
That could have gone very wrong.
I could have spent the next 20
years of my life ruining the
day that you know, that, that
I made the dumbest decision
to, to not work at the one
thing in my life that worked.
What happens when.
This, 'cause this can
sometimes be taken
outta your hands, right?
We, I, I said before that
nobody's gonna come to
you and say, Hey, what if
you just did this thing?
But there are times where people
do come and say, Hey, you're
not gonna do this thing anymore.
Right?
It's called the board,
it's called investors.
So what happens at,
at that point, right?
Is this a betrayal of, of,
of the baby you raised?
Or is this, you know, a
necessary move to ensure
this survival of the company?
Right.
Like
I, I, I'm not a big fan
of ever taking the founder
outta the business.
Yeah.
And don't get me wrong, I'm
not saying every founder
is uniquely qualified.
You know, I wasn't Right.
But you know, you know, I've
talked about this a lot.
I, I, I, I think when you
mess with the DNA, like
that, it rarely works.
Like I, I get the argument
every time, the argument,
every time is like, look,
we brought this person in.
They, they would've never been
able to get this job if they
hadn't started the company.
Totally get it, right?
Yeah.
Get it.
And now that they're here,
uh, the company's grown beyond
them, uh, they can't see it.
We can see it.
Name your problem, right?
I get it.
I do.
But I rarely see the
next person that comes
in hit it outta the park.
This is always with
private equity.
Private equity is whole thing
is they come in, they buy a
company, they shred it apart, so
like they, to get the cost down
so they can sell it to profit.
And I rarely see a company where
it's like, and then private
equity came in and, and it was
so much better of a company.
I'm sure the
finances got better.
But I'm talking, working
there better on paper.
Yes.
Actual company.
Right.
In
any other way?
Rarely.
Every time I hear somebody's,
I'm working for a company and
they're private equity backed,
my first words are, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry about your loss.
Right.
Like, because, and they all
instantly know what I'm saying?
I've never had somebody
go, yeah, yeah.
Oh no.
It's wonderful.
It's great.
I've never had
someone so Oh, oh no.
It's wonderful.
Yeah, right.
They're always like,
yeah, you get it.
Here's what I would say.
I think the hardest thing for
us is again, this concept that
the change isn't a failure.
The change isn't a failure.
Right.
It's an evolution.
It sucks.
It's hard.
It'd be great if things were
just always the way they
were in our halcyon days.
Right?
But they're not, and here
we are and we We have
to make a transition.
Yeah.
We have to make a
transition and look
like if your dream was
big enough to outgrow you.
That's not a shame, that's a
badge of honor, if anything.
Right?
It's a sign of like the
ultimate success, right?
Yeah.
You built something that managed
to pick up enough steam that
it outgrew you and can out go
on without you emotionally.
That might be tough, but
like if you just look at
that from a purely objective
standpoint, pretty damn cool.
It's sending the
kids off to college.
Right?
The the whole goal was to,
was to that, to too close to
home.
Now will, we're getting
real close to that buddy.
That's that.
To be like, ha ha, so far
in future, doesn't matter.
Not talking about me,
are you sir? Damn.
I.
My daughter Summer walked
into the room the other day,
and I don't know if you've
gotten this, I'm sure you have
with your daughter Hannah.
'cause they're
about the same age.
I saw a teenager walk in the
room and she's teenage 13.
Right, dude.
But I mean, I saw a,
yeah, a young woman.
I didn't see, I didn't see
my little girl anymore.
I saw a young, I double.
I had to dig a double take.
Yeah.
Because how was it?
What the hell?
We just walked through.
Yeah.
Who was that?
Right?
It was weird.
And so.
All these emotions come crashing
through the same thing, right?
Where I'm like, oh my God.
Like to your point,
she's gonna be in college
in like five seconds.
They're outgrowing what
we currently know now.
Like as a parent, we don't
get to choose whether we wanna
continue that role, right?
We have to continue
to, to level up.
Like I figured out
finally how to be the, the
parent of an adolescent.
Now I have to learn how to
be the parent of a teacher.
Pretty soon have to learn
how to be the parent
of a college student.
Um, I suppose some of it gets
easier as it goes on because
they start to take over more and
more, but very similar feeling.
Very, very similar feeling.
That's the thing,
like it's a trophy.
The fact that we made it this
far, like is is heart wrenching?
It is.
To, to, to watch our daughters
like pack up for college.
Right.
On the other hand, and
this is again the analogy,
we have to realize what
it took to get us here.
Yes.
It's tough.
Yes.
It's, it's a very difficult
part for all of us to be able
to see something we built and
nourished, kind of grow beyond
us and in some cases without us.
But here's what I would say.
Step back for a
minute, step back.
I don't wanna mourn
what happened, okay?
I wanna celebrate what happened.
I wanna celebrate
what we've built.
How we've built it and the
fact that, and you said it,
Ryan, the fact that we even
have the optionality of being
able to make this transition
because a tiny fraction of a
percentage of entrepreneurs
will ever get this opportunity.
And if we are one of the
few, few, few that ever
gets this opportunity,
cherish the opportunity and
make an important decision
to move the hell on.
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone.
You don't have to, and honestly,
you shouldn't because instead,
you can learn directly from
peers who've been in your shoes.
Connect with bootstrapped
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