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If you're going to start a non-profit, you're going to need a board of directors. While this can be scary, it's absolutely necessary. Stephen joins Zach this week to talk all things board of directors including the life cycle of a board and the recommended governance practices in each stage.
Show Notes
If you're going to start a non-profit, you're going to need a board of directors. While this can be scary, it's absolutely necessary. Stephen joins Zach this week to talk all things board of directors including the life cycle of a board and the recommended governance practices in each stage.
Check out Board Source:
https://boardsource.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Check out Board Source:
https://boardsource.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Hello, mentors and mentoring leaders. Zachary Garza senior here with the MerDOG.
Speaker 3:How do you get the senior behind your name?
Speaker 2:You have a kid and name him after you. You? Oh, okay. That's pretty simple. So
Speaker 3:So I will I I mean, I still have a shot to become Stephen Murray senior.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. If you have a kid
Speaker 3:I just gotta shoot my shot.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know how to respond to that. Is that
Speaker 3:We are pregnant. So I guess I do have a chance if it's a boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let's talk about mentoring. How does that sound? Alright. So, today, we're gonna continue our segment on nonprofit leadership, mentoring, organizational leadership, how to start a mentoring nonprofit, how to how to build 1, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:And I'm here with Steven. We're continuing our transitional phase. Zach Garza, founder executive director, is stepping down and passing the proverbial mentoring torch to the Murdaugh.
Speaker 3:That's me.
Speaker 2:How's it going so far, Steven?
Speaker 3:I mean, it honestly has been difficult.
Speaker 2:Yes. Transition's hard. I love Steven. We believe that this is from God, and transition is hard.
Speaker 3:Yes. So somebody on Instagram yesterday, they posted, like like, most many many of you are fearing things that seem hard, but they're they only feel that way because you've never done them. I was, like, okay. I I I couldn't just scroll past it. I was like, I just was just put in charge of a $1,000,000 budget, leading a staff, preparing for board meetings, meeting with donors, making sure our families are taken care of, and making sure no one touches children.
Speaker 3:I I mean, I just, like, I I understand what this post means. Like, yeah, don't walk in fear, but I'm also, like, petrified. Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It does make sense. And I think there's some good in that fear. I think if you weren't scared, I'd be scared. Yeah. So today, we're gonna talk about board stuff, board of directors.
Speaker 2:We're gonna talk about 2 things, board passages, which are the 3 stages in the nonprofit board's life cycle, and then we're gonna talk about recommended governance practices. Here's a shout out. Everything that we're talking about today, I learned from the website. It's called boardsource.org. If you guys don't know about BoardSource, I encourage you to go check it out.
Speaker 2:I don't know who runs BoardSource. I don't know anything like that. I just found it one day. But, man, they've got some good stuff. So everything that we are talking about today comes from them, so shout out to BoardSource.
Speaker 2:We didn't steal this from you. We're merely promoting it for you.
Speaker 3:That that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 2:So please don't sue us, BoardSource. But the board. Right? Board of directors, whenever I first started 4 Runner, the board was scary. It was intimidating.
Speaker 2:I didn't know what to do. That's what we're gonna talk about today in this podcast. The board is actually here for you. They support you. They open up doors.
Speaker 2:Now now you have to walk through the doors, but they open up doors. They introduce you to people. They give you advice. They hold you accountable. They evaluate you.
Speaker 2:They are your boss. They're your covering, and they're your guide. Steven had his 1st board meeting, maybe second board meeting as executive director yesterday morning, and you got your butt kicked.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So why don't
Speaker 3:Quite literally.
Speaker 2:So why don't you just tell us about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I was walking in fairly confident, which I don't I don't know how you're supposed to walk into board meetings. I'm like, I'm coming in. I think I'm I'm killing it. And a a lot of people were sharing feedback, which, obviously, you've prepared me for this that I'm not supposed to come into the board meetings just thinking I have it all together and putting forward this.
Speaker 3:I'm selling that I'm really good at my job. I'm supposed to come in humble and looking for help and thinking about the future. But the the main point that came out of the meeting was that I am so focused on the day to day that I'm missing the the forest for the trees. I'm I'm not focused on the long term and allowing the staff to carry the burden of what's right in front of us while I'm casting vision for what's coming up next, where we're headed, where we're going. And I I think that just very naturally, I'm a helper and something someone shared.
Speaker 3:I won't name them. They're they have a senior at the end of their name.
Speaker 2:It was me. It was me. It was me, audience. It was me.
Speaker 3:Which I think that was your first board meeting where you weren't the executive director. You weren't the one getting your butt kicked.
Speaker 2:And I just took I just yelled at you. It's just the whole time.
Speaker 3:It's awesome. But but just that my job isn't helping my staff. My job now is the staff freeing me up by doing their jobs so that I can lead the vision, lead us into the next season, and and ask for help from the board and and not just depend upon myself. And so yeah. I mean, it was a good wake up call.
Speaker 3:And, I mean, I've been reading a book about leadership pain, and I texted the board afterwards. It's like, I think I'm feeling some leadership pain today because I'm, I mean, it was draining. It was emotionally draining, but also that pain helps you grow, which I think that it's the same thing for the fear. The fear is an emotion that God loves to use to help us grow and deliver us from it. I don't think it's just avoiding it.
Speaker 3:It's jumping into it and learning how to ask for help, call upon his name, and he'll deliver me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:They're called growing pains for a reason. Yeah. And you're growing. I remember whenever I first started, every board meeting for the first, like, 3 to 5 years, I would leave and I would I'm I would go cry because I was just like I thought about it. I was just like, Lord, are you sure this is what I'm supposed to be doing?
Speaker 2:Are these guys for me or against me? But then I learned the power of a board, and I learned that they're volunteering their time, which is their most precious resource to help you.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They're not here to hurt you. They're here to support you. They're here to guide you, and that's whenever things change. Now I love going into a board meeting because it's the time whenever I can say, hey, guys. I don't know what I'm doing, and I need help.
Speaker 2:Can you give me your wisdom on these certain topics? But that's where we're at as an organization. Like, yes, Steven, your staff does take care of the day to day. You focus on the future, but every organization is different depending on size, depending on how long they've been around. There are different life cycles, which you guys can learn about those nonprofit life cycles in future episodes, which we're gonna spend a whole episode talking about nonprofit life cycles.
Speaker 2:But today we're gonna talk about nonprofit board life cycles. So whenever I started for runner, I mean, I had, I had no idea what I was doing. Like, and the only reason why I got a board was because I had to, you know, to become a 501c3, have to have a board. So So my first board was like one of my coworkers, my best friend from college and my neighbor. I mean, we were small.
Speaker 2:They all knew me. They didn't necessarily care a ton about mentoring, but they cared about me. And so, and it's just like, they just helped me kind of put this vision into practice. Like they played a role in creating kind of, kind of everything. Right.
Speaker 2:But the main thing that they were doing was they were following me and that is what people call in the first iteration of an organization's board. Right? They followed me, the leader. Now because you started it. Right.
Speaker 2:Because it's my thing. Right? Now there's a second way that people can start a nonprofit and that's when a group of people get together and they start and they start something, but either your first board, it's just kinda like a bunch of people getting together and they're like, okay, how are we gonna make this thing happen? And it's hard and it's confusing and no one really knows what to do. So if you're tuning into this podcast and that's where you're at, hear me when I say it's okay.
Speaker 2:It's okay. You're figuring it out. Give yourself some grace. Give yourself some patience. Give yourself some time.
Speaker 2:Like this is where those kinds of boards, the founding boards, they might be asked to do more than they're comfortable doing. Like they not only are they board members, but they don't have enough. The nonprofit doesn't have cash, cash to pay people, so they are like staff as well. They're funding it, they're, advising, and they're actually like the boots on the ground. They're involved in planning, they're involved with the finances, they are the help for the executive director.
Speaker 2:Like, anything that they need. Right? Like, my first board, they put together our handbook, they oversaw our finances. I mean, they volunteered with our kiddos, like, they kinda did everything.
Speaker 3:So it kinda sounds like it's pretty hard to be on a founding board and not be engaged.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're, like, 100% engaged. Yeah. Like, almost to the fact that or almost to the point where it's, like, you can only be on that board for, like, a year or 2 because you just burn out. Burn out. Like, because there's so much to do.
Speaker 2:And it's, like, the board can't can't cope with all the tasks and assignments that have to be done. Like, the executive, like me, like, I I demanded more responsibility and I had, like, more of a role of, like, saying, like, hey, guys, this is where we're going and I need you. Like, I need you to help us out. And I depended on my board for that. Like, the board does the day to day stuff, which is awesome at first, but then once you get staff going, the staff's like, hey, I thought this is why you're paying me.
Speaker 2:So like your first couple staff people, they might resent the board because the board's doing their job. Mhmm. Because that's what they've had to do. Right? And just like the board struggles to define, like, what their roles are in the midst of all of this transition.
Speaker 2:So that is kind of the first iteration of a founding board.
Speaker 3:And What was the hardest part of that for you? Because, I mean Yeah. I I remember in college, a guy came to me and he wanted to start a Christian fraternity. He said, hey, I just got arrested last night, got home, was stung by a bumblebee, and I felt like God told me to start a Christian fraternity. That's literally how this Christian fraternity started.
Speaker 3:I don't know how the beginning of Forerunner was and, like, these initial conversations of pulling these people in. I imagine it was some friends, some people in the community you trusted. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For
Speaker 3:sure. Like, were they all in at first? Was it did anyone say, no, that I don't wanna do that? I mean
Speaker 2:I think the hardest thing is they all just look to me to lead. Like, I ran the board meetings, which I would say, don't do that. I was through
Speaker 3:Like from the get go.
Speaker 2:Yes. Like everyone looked to me, everything was dependent upon me. It was, like me centered nonprofit, which like everything does kind of have to start like that for the most part. Or like, it might not be 1 person, it might be 4 people or 6 people. But eventually, you have to get it away from that.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, like
Speaker 3:And you're saying the sooner the better?
Speaker 2:The sooner the better because that weight's a pretty that's a big weight to carry. And if you don't delegate, if you don't get teammates, and if you don't share the load quickly, then that's gonna become that's gonna become way too much. And if you don't share that load, then that thing's gonna that thing's gonna kill you. So which that brings us to the 2nd phase of a board and that's the governing board. And that's kind of where we find ourselves today.
Speaker 2:So, Steven, you've been in our board meetings now for about a year. Why don't you just kinda describe to people what our board is like today?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean I mean, 6:30 AM, dimly lit room, with breakfast tacos.
Speaker 2:I'm talking more the meetings. I'm not talking about the environment. There's a lot of printouts. I like printing stuff
Speaker 3:out. There and no color copies, only black
Speaker 2:and white. If you waste money on color copies, god help me, I will fire you. I will find you. I will. We're not wasting money on that.
Speaker 3:That that's on the board agenda sometimes. No. I mean, it honestly I mean, we have a group text. Those guys are are connected, super relational. You can tell that you've built relationship with them, that you've leaned on them, and they're they've found kind of their contribution.
Speaker 3:I mean, you've set up committees so they know what's expected of them. I mean, this last this last week, we talked about a golf tournament that we're running a fundraiser. 1 of the board members is like, I'm taking the lead on this. I'm working the committee to to lead this. And so it it does seem like there's more defined roles than what you're talking about at the beginning when it's all hands on deck and who's gonna do what.
Speaker 3:Right. And someone's creating an agenda. Here are the priority items for us to discuss. Here are things if we have time to get to them. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I I I don't know what else to share. I mean, they're looking to the executive director to give an update, to give them a taste of what it looks like day to day so that they can give feedback and recognize what issues they need to address.
Speaker 2:And what you just described, that's a governing board. Like, you are they are making sure that the nonprofit is headed in the right direction. That's different from a founding board. The founding board is doing everything. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, they are, like, all hands on deck. They're the boots on the ground. They're doing the fundraising. They're doing the hanging out with the kids. They're doing all of these things.
Speaker 2:But as you grow, you start to hire staff to do those things.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So think about an hourglass. Right? At the top of the hourglass, that's the board. And they're focused on helping, they're focused on supporting, they're focused on advising. In the middle of that hourglass, that's the executive director.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Right? And the board is The
Speaker 3:go between.
Speaker 2:Right. The board is is pouring into the executive everything that he needs to lead this org into the the the next stages, into the future. And then the bottom part of the hourglass, that's the staff. So the executive director takes from the board and pours it into the staff. The staff takes care of the day to day stuff.
Speaker 2:Right. And so they are governing the nonprofit. They aren't doing like operational stuff, but instead they're just there for you, the executive. They're saying, how can we help? How can we help?
Speaker 2:How can we help? How can we support? Right. And it's up to you as the executive to say, this is what I need. I need an introduction to, to this person.
Speaker 2:I need a connection to this, other nonprofit. I need volunteers. I need money. I need coaching. I need to go through this program on how to execute a budget.
Speaker 2:Here's my strategic plan. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. Right. I'm having this issue with my staff. They're showing up late and every time I talk to them about it, they're becoming extremely rude.
Speaker 2:How do I deal with that? Right. Like they are your sounding board and we'll talk about the committees and things like that in the next episode, but but like, yeah, they are there for you. Like, they are your mentors.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Right? And it's important to fill your board with people who have different experiences. Like, yeah, you should probably have a guy in there who's been in charge of something before. Like you should probably have a leader. You should probably have a finance guy.
Speaker 2:You should probably have a guy who's a type a and a guy who's a type b. Like just diversity is key because they can give you different perspectives, different angles, different skills. But one thing that I have found is, 1, it takes a while to transition from a founding board to a governing board. It takes 1 to 3 years. Right?
Speaker 2:Because you have to kinda train them. Hey. That's not your job anymore. This is now your job. You're not doing your advising.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 3:But but most people I mean, how long are they on a board for?
Speaker 2:So we'll talk about that in recommended board practices, but it just depends. So for us, it's we have 2 year terms, and the most you can serve is 6 years. So but every 2 years, you renew. But for some people, it's 1 year. For some people, it's 5 years.
Speaker 2:For some people, they don't have term term limits. But
Speaker 3:I know you'll probably get into it, but does the founding board lean more toward we're here for a while to establish what that looks like, or do you think that Yeah. Their commitment is less?
Speaker 2:I would say no. It's less because you work them so hard. Mhmm. Right? Because, like, you know, with a governing board, you're not necessarily really doing a lot.
Speaker 2:You're just showing up once or once a month, once a quarter and giving advice. But the founding board, they're actually, like, doing stuff. But as you grow as a leader, you'll need different types of board members. Like, whenever I first started, I needed entrepreneurial board members to help me start something. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now I need, like, type a board members.
Speaker 3:Like, if you started 4 Runner and I was, well, I don't I don't know if you should, you know, mentor more kids.
Speaker 2:That's risky. Yeah. But, like, now what I need is I need an executor. Like, I need someone to teach us how to excel in the day to day, which is why, you know, Scott Frost is our is our board chairman, and he's amazing. And so yeah.
Speaker 2:It's
Speaker 3:And a part of the hourglass, it it you're the go between. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. The staff shouldn't necessarily be communicating with the board, and the board shouldn't necessarily be communicating with the staff. You're communicating with the board, and you're communicating with the staff, and you're kind of that that main person. Why the staff doesn't communicate with the board is because if the board says something and you say something, and they're different, who are who who who are they gonna follow?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right?
Speaker 2:And so
Speaker 3:And you have to answer to someone so that the staff answers to the ED, the ED
Speaker 2:Answers to the board. So it's important to keep those to keep those separate, to keep those boundaries spread. But yeah. So that's
Speaker 3:I I would make one exception because I know that you've done with us. You've done a review Mhmm. Where we've anonymously given feedback Yeah. About you Yeah. Which I don't know I don't know if my confidentiality has remained
Speaker 2:Oh, no. I for sure know that.
Speaker 3:Until my handwriting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. We don't handwrite stuff anymore. This isn't the sixties. We have computers, Steven.
Speaker 2:We type things.
Speaker 3:Well, if you knew it was like, oh, this is Helvetica. It's definitely Steven.
Speaker 2:Right? No. I am anonymous, but my boss keeps on telling me to dress right. No. That's Steve.
Speaker 2:But yeah. No. That that is the only time that y'all talk to on my board is whenever y'all
Speaker 3:are giving feedback about
Speaker 2:you. Yep. So and that only happens once a year. But eventually as you start to grow. So just to kind of put it into perspective for runner, which is who we work for, we were a founding board for about the 1st 6 years.
Speaker 2:And then once our budget hit about $400,000 we started to transition into a governing board. I think it's taken a while. It's taken 2 to 3 years to get there, but now we're really flowing as a governing board. Our budget this year is just shy of a million, but we're about to transition into this 3rd board, which is the institutional board. It is the mature nonprofit board.
Speaker 2:And, like, this is where your board grows. Right? Like, right now, we have 7 people on our board. Whenever we start to become a institutional board, we'll probably add that to 12. 12 to 10 to 12 to 14, just depending on our needs.
Speaker 2:But, and, like, there, it's like the ED and the staff, like, they're really taking care of the day to day stuff. Like, you kinda know what you're doing now, and you just need people really for connections. You know? Like, yes, they're overseeing finances. Yes.
Speaker 2:They're keeping you accountable. But, I mean, in 3 years, in 5 years, our budget's gonna be $2,000,000 if, you know, everything keeps on keeps on keeping on. And we're gonna have to have a lot of people to help us network and to help open doors so that we can fundraise that. Yeah. So yeah.
Speaker 3:I I mean, I see people's websites. I pull up their board of directors, and there's, like, 40 people there. And for for you, there's 7. So what's the the benefits, the the pros and cons of how big your board is? Because is that just a a model of how you structure the board?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, it just depends. Like, there's no one way to or organize a board. This is just how we do it. But we like to keep it small now for now, just because we kinda have everything that we need.
Speaker 2:Like, we have Scott Frost, who's our board chairman, and then we have 2 people over the finances, 2 people over the fundraising, and 2 people, like, taking care of all of the governance stuff, IRS, scheduling the board meetings, onboarding new people. We're about to add some new people on our board, and they're gonna help us fundraise. So it just depends. Like, every nonprofit is different. Add people to your board as you see fit that can fill in the gaps of where you're weak.
Speaker 2:So that's that. But the institutional board, I mean, they're they're focused on things that I never in when I first started, thought that we would be focused on. Like, they're focusing in on opening doors to, like, major funders. They're talking about making sure that the important people in your community know about us. Like, they're talking about, like, newspaper articles and getting on TV stations and making sure the right people are invited to specific events.
Speaker 2:Like they kind of have their their own jobs. Like this is where you can really start to utilize different committees. Okay. Here's a committee to run our golf tournament. Here's a committee to run our skeet shoot.
Speaker 2:Here's a here's a committee to run our fundraiser. Here's a committee to run our mom's brunch. Right? And you can really delegate that out. And so we will talk about that.
Speaker 3:But the the board chairman is kind of becoming a bigger role in this because Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're kinda overseeing everything. They're overseeing you, but they're also overseeing the board. So the board chairman is, in my opinion, the one of the most important, if not the most important position in the entire organization because they're in charge of you, they're in charge of guiding you, they're in charge of the board, and they I found for me, my board chairman has to be a strong leader. Like, they have to be able to tell the board what they want. They have to be able to tell me what they want.
Speaker 2:They have to be able to say the hard things. Hey, board. We need to pick it up in fundraising. We need to add more people. We need to add, you know, people.
Speaker 2:We need to add this skill set. We need to get into this market. But they also need to say, hey, Zach, you're not receiving feedback well. You're not taking care of your family. Like, they need to be a leader.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Like, they need to lead the board and they need to lead you and they need to hold you accountable. And it's just and you have to like them. Like, it's important for the executive director and the board chairman to like each other because y'all are gonna be spending time with each other. So
Speaker 3:Well, we already name dropped him Scott Frost, who has his own business
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Has has all of this stuff going on. What leads someone like Scott Frost to become board chairman? I guess, who do you want in that role? It sounds like you want someone who's already operating at a high capacity Yeah. But also feels called to the vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They have to like you. They have to be called to the vision. They have to have the skill set. They have to have the time.
Speaker 2:Right? And so I'm like, I I pegged Scott Frost for our board in 2010. And I said, this guy's gonna be on my board one day. But I knew how talented he was, and I also knew that his skill set would be best used whenever we were bigger. So I just had coffee with him once every 3 months, once every 6 months for 10 years.
Speaker 2:And then whenever the board chairman spot opened up and I knew that we were in the right phase, I said, hey, Scott. Come on in. So
Speaker 3:So I I think that that's that's challenging for me to look at relationships I'm cultivating today. Mhmm. Am I thinking about board members a decade from now?
Speaker 2:Yep. It's a big deal.
Speaker 3:And now you mentioned time at the end of that list.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They have to have capacity, but it's a big deal.
Speaker 3:But you you just say over and over again, it's like everybody can make time for for something Yeah. If it's important to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But Scott Frost has 4 kids. And so if all of his kids were, like, you know, 10, 8, 6, and 4, it's probably not a good season, but now all his kids are in college.
Speaker 3:All Scott's juniors.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Scott the 3rd, Scott the 4th, Skarina. Scott, if you're listening to this, we love you. Alright. So let's talk about let's we'll get into all the details in our next episode, but let's talk about recommended governance practices.
Speaker 2:Once again, this is coming from BoardSource, and they've kinda split up into 3 different practices, essential practices, leading practices, and compliance practices. So we're just gonna kinda go through these 1 by 1. We're gonna kinda go through these quickly because, you can read and you can mentor and you can download this document. Just source just search BoardSource recommended governance practices. But one, meeting attendance.
Speaker 2:So, news flash, it's important to come to meetings.
Speaker 3:Hey, mentoring. Show up. I mean, that's that's half the half the battle.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So whenever you're asking people to join your board, like, you have to set the standard there. Hey. We expect you to come to your meetings, you know, whether it's once a month, whether it's once a quarter, whether it's once every 2 months, just be sure to let them know what your expectations are.
Speaker 3:I'd I'd sat in on a board meeting of another organization last night, and we were all sitting on Zoom until a quorum was present. I've never heard that word before, but I looked it up. And it's like having enough people there in order to Yep. Be able to do business.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we are super fortunate that I mean, we have we have a 100 percent
Speaker 3:And everyone's local.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which that helps. I would say, in my opinion, for me and how I do things, it's gotta be local because I don't like Zoom. But, yeah. So just make sure that people can come.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Next, term limits. Like, adopt term limits. I used to think This
Speaker 3:works for America.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It does. I I used to be like, man, this guy's gonna be on my board forever. And then when they'd leave, I would get my feelings hurt. But now I've learned that, like, hey.
Speaker 2:There's a season for everything. Some guys are on your board for 2 years. Some guys are on your board for 6 years. But the Lord can speak through different people in different seasons. It's just like having a mentor.
Speaker 2:Like, I had a mentor whenever I was in college. I had a mentor whenever I was in my twenties. I had a mentor when I'm in my thirties, and now I have a mentor as a father. It's just like God uses different people. So just know that most board members will just be there for a season.
Speaker 2:And when it ends, celebrate them, and just don't get your feelings hurt whenever they only last a year or 2 years or 4 years like I did, because that's not good.
Speaker 3:Are you saying you got your feelings hurt or
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Because I felt abandoned, but that probably comes back from Tim. My father wound. Alright. Next is like, you just have to be strategic about recruitment.
Speaker 2:So we'll talk about this in the next episode, but you've got your committees, make a job description for those, and then go go find people, go find board people that fit that job description. Right? And so, like, you have to be strategic about recruitment. We've talked about this. If you are playing football, you have 11 people on your team, and they're all offensive linemen, your team's not gonna be good.
Speaker 2:Right? If everyone on everyone on your board is a banker, well, you're gonna be missing some skills.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Don't you think for 1 would be great if it was just all you?
Speaker 2:No. You've spent time with me. You would know my weakness. Why is everyone yelling in in a hurry and not getting their feelings hurt when people Yeah. No.
Speaker 2:So, just be strategic on who you recruit. I have to like them. I have to wanna spend time with them. They have to love Jesus. They have to go to church.
Speaker 2:They have to, you know, believe in what we're doing. So, they have to be nice. Next up, strategic planning. So for us, the board has helped us do our strategic strategic plan. Scott taught me how to do a strategic strategic plan.
Speaker 2:Now I do the strategic plan on my own, but they review it, assess it, and give me feedback. So
Speaker 3:That was one of my favorite things about seeing, getting an inside look into the board was, like, how much of the things you did with our staff was coming from the investment of the board Yep. And seeing seeing the go between there. That was really
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I am who I am today because of my board, because their investment, and how they've been toward me, and how they've taught me. And I'll say this to my credit, because I'm so humble, I'm gonna I'm gonna toss a little brag on myself. I just asked for help, and I asked for help because I didn't know what the heck I was doing. And so, hey, Scott.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to do a strategic plan, and he helped me. So super grateful for that. But if you're in charge, you can't be afraid to ask for help to your board because they're they're there to help. But next up, they approve the budget. So simple.
Speaker 3:We just did that.
Speaker 2:We did just do that. But what we do now is our nonprofit is broken up into segments. So it's like after school program is a segment, 1 on 1 mentoring is a segment, mom's ministry is a segment, junior high is a segment. We let those staff members come up with their budget. The executive director approves that.
Speaker 2:And then once everyone has turned theirs in and the executive director has approved all of them
Speaker 3:The board tears it apart.
Speaker 2:The board does tear it apart, or the board gives their feedback, and then the board eventually approves it. So it takes 3 months, but it's good. So they approve the budget. They also approve your job description. So, like, for me, I made my job description, but they approved it.
Speaker 3:So Do I get to write mine?
Speaker 2:No. You don't get to do anything. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You're in charge.
Speaker 2:I'm out of here. Probably never gonna talk to you again.
Speaker 3:Whatever.
Speaker 2:But
Speaker 3:We have a podcast, Zach.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 3:And I love This was your design all along. You were gonna leave, but you were connecting us via this podcast.
Speaker 2:Just to keep an eye on you. Just to yell at you. Not only do they make their job description, but the board evaluates the executive director. That's a big deal.
Speaker 3:How often do they do because it felt like I was being evaluated.
Speaker 2:Well, you kinda were. But it's a formal evaluation every year. So the board tells me what I'm doing well, the board tells me what I'm not doing well, they tell me all of my blind spots, they tell me how I can get better.
Speaker 3:So the evaluation shouldn't be news to you.
Speaker 2:I always say this, if you're in charge, whether it's as a board or an executive, If the first time you're whoever you're over is hearing bad news is during your once a year eval, you're probably doing something wrong. You're probably not having those hard conversations enough. So, like, for me, my board eval takes, like, 15 minutes because I know everything that they've said. Hey, Zach. You're impatient.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I know that. Like, that's fine.
Speaker 3:What's next?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Hey, Zach. You don't pay attention to the details. You don't really pay attention to the budget, and you don't take time to learn it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry. But, yeah, next up is an audit. So once you get to be a certain size, it's just important to set aside some money for an audit. We had our first one last year when our budget was about 700,000, and we did it for two reasons. 1, to keep us accountable.
Speaker 2:But 2, once you start to apply for these big foundational grants, most require an audit. So so those are essential practices, Murdog. What do you think? Those are great. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Next up, we're just gonna
Speaker 3:I see all of those in what we're doing, so that makes me feel good.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 3:Seems like we're following BoardSource's recommendations.
Speaker 2:BoardSource knows what they're doing. So I am gonna kinda fly through these real quick. So next is leading practices. So those are the the ones we just talked about were the essentials. Here are the leading.
Speaker 2:You gotta have an agenda. An agenda helps keep you on track. For us, the board and the executive or the board chairman and the executive director come up with the agenda about a week before the board meetings, and we send it out 3 to 5 days prior so the board can take a look at it first. Next is executive sessions. So whenever you're talking about something that's important, sometimes you need to ask the executive director to get out of the room.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you need to ask people to leave and have an executive voting session. That's important. So those are leading practices. Board diversity and inclusion. You know, if your board's a bunch of rich white dudes, you're probably really missing out, and so you're missing out on different perspectives that can help you become better.
Speaker 2:So yeah. That makes sense. Right?
Speaker 3:That does make sense. I mean, I just talked to some, a woman on a board of directors for another nonprofit in Dallas, and she recommended to me just thinking how much insight are you missing by not having the female perspective, and and it was just a really good conversation. Yep. And I think that that goes to show for, I mean, the diversity of the communities that you serve. Yep.
Speaker 3:Like, what does it look like for your board to reflect that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Your board should look like the the community that you're in. So next up, board eval. So the board needs to evaluate themselves. We have 1 person on our board who's in charge of that every year.
Speaker 2:Hey. How are we doing in these 8 different areas? Which include, like, meeting attendance, strategic planning, evaluating the ED, you know, things like that. Board orientation, it's important for the board members to be familiar with what you do. They need to know what you do, who you serve.
Speaker 2:So our board, members who are new, they go through like a 2 hour
Speaker 3:This is what you put
Speaker 2:on the website. Yeah. They go through, like, a 2 hour, like, hey, here's here's what we do. Here's our vision. Here's our history.
Speaker 2:Here's who works for us. Here's where we've been, all of that stuff. They review the bylaws, and so they don't do that very often, but they do they do do that. Do do. I don't
Speaker 3:even know what a bylaw is.
Speaker 2:We'll talk. We'll talk. The board committees have job descriptions, which we'll talk about later. They give, so it's best practice for 100% of the people to give financially. They don't have to give a lot, but they do have to give something.
Speaker 2:I mean, that just kinda shows that they're bought in. They adopt a conflict of interest policy. They have a board retreat, and that's to build trust, to strategic plan, to get to know each other. It's just a good practice. Every year, we do half days.
Speaker 2:We do 2 of those, and we try to do an overnight if we need 1. They focus on the size of a board, and then they post the 9 nineties whenever the taxes come out. So those are just a couple of the leading practices. And any questions on that, Murdoch?
Speaker 3:I mean, it just it just sounds like there's clarifying everyone's role, making sure everything's going according to plan, and building meaningful relationships with one another
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:While you go after the vision. I mean, it's
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It goes back to relationships just on the board.
Speaker 2:Relationships change lives, no matter what you do. Lastly, you know, you figure out how often you're gonna meet, figure out the executive's compensation. That's a big deal. The board is responsible for evaluating you and figuring out how much you're gonna get paid. So for us, our board looks at how much a principal makes, how much pastors of a church about the same size as yours make, and they come up with a fair compensation.
Speaker 2:So they, you know, review the IRS 9.90 and things like that. So those are kind of the boring recommended governance practices. Those are the different stages of a board. Boarding. No.
Speaker 2:No. Boring. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No. It is kinda boring. But it's important. So if you're starting a nonprofit, if you're leading a nonprofit and you're unfamiliar with board stuff, there's BoardSource. There's, consultants out there.
Speaker 2:Casey Strader from Save Non Consulting. We're gonna hear from her in upcoming episodes, but you've gotta get it figured out because board is the foundation of your nonprofit. It's important stuff.
Speaker 3:I've never thought about board being the foundation. Mhmm. I always think of them as, like, way up there.
Speaker 2:So we talked yesterday, and, Steven, you said I told you you need to spend about 25% of your time on the board, and you said you're crazy. But that's 1.
Speaker 3:I didn't say you're crazy. I said I'm spending probably 5, maybe 4%.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But why you spend 25% is because if your board is toxic, your foundation, your organization will be toxic. So going out to lunch with the board
Speaker 3:Is a win.
Speaker 2:Building relationship, building trust, making them feel thanked, being grateful, telling them how awesome they are. It's essential. It's vital. Mhmm. We'll talk about that next up that nep.
Speaker 2:Whoops.
Speaker 3:And I think that We'll
Speaker 2:talk about that next episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I I mean, I do think that I probably do make a lot of assumptions of their how bought in they are. And it's the same thing with the mentors. It's like, oh, well, surely you just love mentoring. I can feel called to it so I don't have to call you, text you, ask you how it's going.
Speaker 2:No. You Thank you. You have to make them feel valued. If they don't feel valued, they're not gonna last long. It's the same as a mentor.
Speaker 2:I mean, if people don't feel like they're being used well, people don't feel like their time is being used well, they're not gonna stick around. We'll talk about that next. Hey. You've gotta have a good board if you wanna mentor, and you can mentor.