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Now or Never: Long-Term Care Strategy is a podcast for all those seeking answers and solutions in the long-term care space. Too often we don’t fully understand the necessity of care until it’s too late. This podcast is designed to create solutions, start conversations and bring awareness to the industry that will inevitably impact all Americans.
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Some
people sort of think, Ah, I
don't need to plan it, I can
just wing it. You know, I'm just
so happy. I don't have to work.
Some people feel that way. I
really think it's very important
at whatever age you are to start
thinking about what's the course
of life that you're hoping for,
for yourself. We are living
longer, and people don't want to
outlive their money. And, you
know, it may be that, you know,
people need to start thinking
ahead of, you know, if these are
some of the goals and dreams
that I have, what do I need to
do to be able to support that?
Caroline Moore: Welcome to Now
or Never Long-Term Care Strategy
with Kosta Yepifantsev a podcast
for all those seeking answers
and solutions in the long term
care space. This podcast is
designed to create resources,
start conversations and bring
awareness to the industry that
will inevitably impact all
Americans. Here's your host
Kosta Yepifantsev.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey, y'all,
it's Kosta. Today, I'm here with
my guest, Dr. Dorian Mintzer,
experienced therapist life and
retirement transition coach,
relationship coach, executive
coach, author, speaker and
teacher. Today we're talking
about what no one told you about
retirement documents or in 2023?
What is the successful
retirement look like?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Now, I
hate to disappoint some of your
listeners to say there is no
right way to retire. Okay. There
are many different pictures of
what a successful retirement
looks like. Because now that
we're living longer, somebody
may be retired from their full
time work, and still want to be
working in some different ways.
And using their skills and
having maybe an encore career,
or maybe even wanting to phase
out their retirement during many
of the, quote, retirement years.
And many people are just burned
out. And a successful retirement
might be a honeymoon stage
initially. But then what I find
is that people begin to feel
like something's missing. And so
I think a successful retirement
is when people have taken stock
on what his work meant to them.
What's been important, what are
the things about work, that
maybe they need and want to
build into their life, like, a
reason to get out of bed in the
morning, some structure, some
sense of connection, engagement,
purpose and meaning. So from my
perspective, what I see with
people is that a successful
retirement really is people who
are feeling a sense of well
being, maybe using their skills
in a different way. Perhaps
volunteering, maybe, you know,
giving back in some ways,
writing memoir, writing, having
some time to really enjoy and
becoming what I like to think
about as an elder, which is
developing a perspective and a
wisdom that you're able to share
with the younger generations. So
a successful retirement is, I
think, people who feel engaged
and vital and connected to the
world, maybe still through their
work. But maybe having made
peace with my identity isn't
just my work. And there are many
other parts of myself that I
want to develop in this stage of
life.
Kosta Yepifantsev: You know, one
of the things that I find so
curious, is how, somebody that's
25 years old, or let me let me
put it like this 35 years old,
and maybe is married and has
some kids, and somebody that is
65 or 75 years old, and that's
raised children, and has, you
know, essentially worked a full
career, how differently they
approach life and problems. And,
and maybe if you could just
share from your perspective,
like, how do people change their
problem solving habits and
behaviors as they get older?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: What an
interesting question. Well, I
think, in many ways, we are who
we are, right? But I think
what's important is that there
are certain experiences in life,
that if we allow ourselves we
can learn from, and so we
develop a perception, we develop
a sense of our own resilience,
we develop hopefully
appreciation of other people.
And I think that if one's on
kind of that growth trajectory,
then, you know, as we get older,
we're really able to deal in
different ways with uncertainty
in different ways. As with the
complexities of life, there's
actually been some interesting
studies during COVID, that
younger people had more
difficulty because of still
potentially working, maybe
having children at home, not
having a sense of having gone
through a lot of ups and downs.
So I think there's something
that comes from just
experiencing the vicissitudes of
life really. And knowing that
somehow we learn how to deal
with the ups and downs and good
and bad of life, and develop an
internal kind of compass and
competence. Because when you
think about it, all of life
really is a series of
transitions. And what I find
really interesting is, you know,
it's true when you're 25, or 35,
you've had less transitions, but
you still may start having a
pattern of, do you have more
trouble with the ending, the
unknown, the new beginning, by
the time you get older, you've
had more transitions, and I
think important to ask the same
kind of questions, you know, do
you have more trouble with the
unknown ones, the messy middle,
the new beginning, the unknown
ones, to begin to, if you allow
yourself learn about yourself,
and I think just have a greater
perspective, you know, I think
you can really in your 60s and
70s, develop this new identity
of being an elder where you just
appreciate kind of the ups and
downs of life.
Kosta Yepifantsev: And on that
note, how can we more accurately
predict what we actually need to
retire?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Now? Are
you meaning that money wise, or?
Well, General? I
Kosta Yepifantsev: mean, I mean,
I'd say probably both, okay.
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: I'm not a
financial planner, and I'm not a
believer that there's a number.
Because what I believe is that,
how much you have, really, and
how much you need is really
based on what kind of lifestyle
you want, and maybe what kind of
lifestyle you have. Again,
there's no right way, I think
retirement is money, but it's
more than money. And if you
think about it, money is it's a
tool, it's a resource, sometimes
it gets overvalued. And we think
you know, that it is just that
number. But I think people are
learning more and more that
there's the, quote, soft part.
You know, I like the framework
of puzzle, you know, that there
are all these pieces in our
life. And I like puzzles,
because we have to puzzle it
out, as well as it's a noun, but
they're all these parts of our
life, finances, health and
wellness, where we live, who's
important in our life, closeness
and intimacy, spirituality,
meaningful relationships,
obligations with family, legacy,
all of those things are puzzle
pieces, and they impact each
other. And so I think money and
health and wellness are two of
the biggest puzzle pieces that
are going to impact the choices
that you have. Well, and
Kosta Yepifantsev: also to that
note, I mean, money and health
and wellness are prerequisites
almost to being able to have a
long and happy retirement.
Right?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.: Absolutely.
Although the caveat of that is
Money doesn't buy happiness.
That is very important. And I
think that it is amazing that
there are many people who don't
have an abundance of money, but
they have maybe a mindset that's
more abundance rather than
scarcity. And with that sort of
growth mindset, it's amazing
that the happiness, the sense of
well being that people can have.
Kosta Yepifantsev: What do you
think is the most overlooked
aspect of retirement planning?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: I think
even doing it, it's part of it.
I think, some people sort of
think, oh, I don't need to plan
it, I can just wing it, you
know, it'll just all fall into
place. You know, I'm just so
happy. I don't have to work.
Some people feel that way. I
really think it's very important
at whatever age you are to start
thinking about, you know, what's
the course of life that you're
hoping for, for yourself? We are
living longer, and people don't
want to outlive their money.
And, you know, it may be that,
you know, people need to start
thinking ahead of, you know, if
these are some of the goals and
dreams that I have. What do I
need to do to be able to support
that? So I really encourage
people to think ahead and plan.
It's like a financial portfolio.
It's not written in stone, but I
think it's helpful to have a
vision. And if you're part of a
relationship, to look at your
vision, your partner's vision,
see where they align where
they're different. And if it's
not a partner, it may be
siblings, or it may be good
friends that maybe whoever's on,
you know, sort of on the journey
with you to really think about,
you know, if I want, hopefully
to reach the end of my life
without regrets, if they're
things I want to accomplish
deucey say, then come back to
now, whatever your age is, and
start thinking about, Well, how
am I going to make that happen?
And that's where the planning
comes in.
Kosta Yepifantsev: You know, I'm
kind of a numbers guy. So I
follow a lot of the statistics
in for retirement planning, just
retiring in general aging,
things like that. And one of the
things that I find most
fascinating is about 22% of the
US population actually saves for
retirement. And on average, they
only save about two to 300,000.
And I mean, that's not a whole
lot. If you're wanting to retire
for an extended period of time.
Granted, there are such things
as, obviously Social Security
and VA benefits, and sometimes
even a pension. I mean, me and
Morgan, were just talking about
this. Like, where are you going
to find a company that pays you
a pension nowadays, you know,
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: that that
is in the past.
Kosta Yepifantsev: But with that
being said, if people are taking
the time to plan for their
retirement, in your opinion,
because I have some opinions on
this, but I want to hear your
opinions about the greatest
risks for derailing retirement
plans, and how do we avoid them?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Well, I
think sort of what I was
alluding to before, I think
health. I mean, there's so many
unknowns in the world. I mean,
there's can be economic
downturns, there can be health,
I mean, you might have a vision
that you are going to work a
certain number of years, and
that either you or someone close
to you, child, spouse, partner,
sibling parents, has a health
crisis. And that can just kind
of put everything into kind of a
chaos crisis mode. So I think
that can derail. I think another
thing that can derail is if and
this may seem more subtle, but
if your only sense of yourself
is your work, and you're not,
either by choice or life,
circumstances not working. If
you can really go downhill,
there can be a dark side to not
having a sense of the
connection, engagement and
purpose and meaning. I think too
much isolation, you know, can be
a derailleur. I think that, you
know, if, in fact, somebody's
you know, maybe it's a
retirement isn't by choice. You
know, unfortunately, the
statistics say that, you know,
people can drink too much use
drugs and really go through a
real bad rabbit hole. But it
doesn't have to be that way. But
it can I mean, there are many
things that can be derailleurs.
And that's where I think
planning is helpful. I mean,
it's true. You know, I think
your percentage is probably
right on, about the number of
people who plan even those who
do have some retirement savings,
health costs can come up. There
may be, you know, tuition costs
for children, was even a recent
article about even the tuition
that older people are still
paying off, you know, or people
who go back to school. Yeah, and
people who want to go back to
school. And when I think the, I
think when you go bankrupt, you
still have to pay loans and
student student loans, you know,
and so many people have thought
that they've been saving for
retirement, but then, you know,
many are in what has been
referred to as that sandwich
generation. So taking care of
parents having children and, and
maybe even wanting to retrain
yourself and things cost money.
Kosta Yepifantsev: You know,
what's interesting about that is
I was having dinner with some
friends who are some in the
millennial generation, and they
are in the Gen X. And I feel
like Gen X really got a bad
hand. Like, if if you really
take it into like, obviously,
you know, the millennials and
Gen Z's probably can't afford to
buy a house, but Gen X is just,
they are under a lot of
pressure. When you talk about
sandwich house, I'm thinking
more of like vise grip,
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: or
squeezed vise grip. Yeah.
Probably more apt metaphor. It's
true. You know, and it used to
be that parents wanted the next
generation to be better off.
And, you know, and that's where
it's, you know, falling by the
wayside somewhat.
Kosta Yepifantsev: But we can I
mean, we can, I'm optimistic
that things will will will start
to improve because we're having
more and more Have these types
of conversations are starting to
occur? And people are like, you
know, I don't know if this is
actually supposed to be like
this, you know? So Alright,
moving on. As a retirement
coach, do you think that there's
a difference between what people
think they want, and what they
actually want out of retirement?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: I think
that's true. And again, it may
vary. If one has done some
reflecting and thinking ahead of
time. So you know, I say it's
true, but it depends, in a
sense. There are many different
kinds of retirees. I mean, there
are, and many different kinds of
visions that people have. I
mean, some people really have
loved their work and want to
keep working and want to keep
contributing, maybe not full
time. But in some capacity, some
people are just totally burned
out. And when you think about
the concept of retirement, I
think it's changing. It used to
be, you know, I mean, back when
Social Security was developed,
you know, people had more
industrial jobs. And people
were, you know, by the time they
were in their 60s, they were
burned out. It's very different
now, in the 21st century, not
only are we living longer, but
there's just more desk work, or
head head kind of work. I mean,
not totally. So what somebody
wants from retirement may vary,
depending on what your prior
experiences where, I mean, I
think there's always been this
vision that there can, there's
more time for leisure. And many
people, I think, as I mentioned
before, there can be this
honeymoon phase. But kind of
like, like this expression,
there's only so much golf you
can play or someone's sailing.
And I think COVID put a crimp in
the fantasy of traveling. I
mean, it's opening up again, but
you know, it still exists. But I
think, you know, sometimes
people don't think ahead and
realize what it's going to feel
like not to have a paycheck, if
you're not getting a paycheck,
or not to have that identity if
it's been so much of your
identity. So, retirement,
sometimes can feel structureless
until you realize it's okay to
have and you need actually some
structure in your life, you
know, exercising, taking care of
yourself. I always like the
statistic that by the time
you're 65, it's 30% genetics,
which is not insignificant if
you've got some genetic
components. But 70% are things
you can have some control over
lifestyle choices, taking care
of your body and your brain,
spirituality, meaningful
relationships. So if you think
just doing nothing, if that's
the vision you have of
retirement, you probably will
end up being unhappy. I do think
that, again, there are different
stages of retirement. But if,
you know, some people actually
have a good picture of
retirement, and they combine in
beautiful ways, some voluntary,
maybe a little bit of working
time with family time with
friends, I'm for traveling time
for leisure, I mean, some people
truly do create, you know, what
they were envisioning. But some
don't.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So when I was
listening to your TEDx, one of
the things that you mentioned in
there is that our perception of
middle age is actually shifted,
and it's more, or between the
ages of 55 and 75. So, I want
to, I want to, I want you to
touch on that and kind of
explain it. But also, I'm
curious, you know, I'm sure
you've done some research and
have seen the statistics on
this, but how long do you think
people will be living in the
next like, 20 to 30 years, will
we be living into like, 125 or
150? I mean, I hope we are, you
know, but just curious.
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Well,
there are a few questions in
there. So no, but in terms of
lifespan, a lot of people now
are talking about healthspan
just lifespan. So you know, I
truly myself am a believer that
it's it's not just the number of
years, but I really I mean, I'd
like to live a good long time.
But I I also have a sense of
what for me quality of life is
so that just adding, you know, a
little years to my belt, if it
doesn't feel like a quality of
life. I'm not so sure I want
that. Just sticks are saying
that kids born now pretend you
know have a 5050 chance to live
into their hundreds. I don't
know that it's going to get to,
you know, way over 100 It could
be But again, it's hard to know.
But I do think that with the
extension of lifespan now and
hopefully healthspan, which is
being able to feel and be kind
of in the middle age, not old,
old and you know, more unable to
do things, you know that that's
maybe more at the final final
end. But during, you know, it is
interesting to think about this
extended middle age, you know,
it used to be 40 to 60. And 60
was old now, it's, you know, as
you say, 50 to 55 to 75. It's
like a second adulthood, or some
people actually even call it
middle essence now, that, you
know, Adolescence is only was a
term coined maybe 100 or 100
plus years ago, because there
was an awareness that there was
a time between being a child and
being an adult. And issues about
who am i Where do I want to
live? What do I want to do?
Parallels if you think about it.
So now we have this extended
middle age, you know, and people
are realizing, first of all, 62,
or 65, might be too young to
retire. Because if we're living
longer, and want to have some
lifestyle choices, we may need
to work longer if we're able to
and interpret. That's where we
can. And so, you know, thinking
about the parallels to
adolescence is we're dealing
with our identity we're dealing
with where do I want to live?
Which is your area to? You know,
who do I want to be connected
to? Parallel things, but
hopefully, at this middle
essence stage, the second
adulthood, we have an added
perspective and wisdom of just
having weathered a lot of the
ups and downs of life. But but
there is this transition. And I
think I really find it so
helpful and freeing to think
about this extended middle age,
it really is a time to keep
growing and learning and
evolving. And it doesn't have
it's not the old paradigm of
aging, which is it's all
downhill after 60. It will be if
you want it to be and let it be.
But it really doesn't have to be
there's many, many choices that
are out there.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's say
somebody doesn't plan for
retirement, or just doesn't have
a plan in general. What's your
advice to the children of
parents that have no retirement
plan?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: Another
good and hard question. You
know, it's interesting,
sometimes adult children don't
want to bring up things to
parents, and sometimes parents
don't want to bring up things to
young children, younger, adult
children, it is important to
have a conversation. I mean, I
I'm a believer that
conversations and they can be
very difficult ones. But it's
important to talk about so you
know, a son or a daughter can
maybe sit down and not you
aren't doing that's blaming
shaming you statements, you
know, you should be you're not.
But to say I'm worried about
you, you know, I'm worried that,
as far as I know, I don't think
you've been thinking about this
at all. And I worry, you know,
are you going to be able to keep
working in the way that you are
now or what happens if their
health issues, I'd like us to
sit down and talk about it. So
if you can use an if statement.
And you know, if you're in a
situation where you're not used
to talking together, and you're
able to have it be just the
start, let it be a short
conversation to start with, but
then know that you can come back
to it. But I really do think
they're hard conversations to
have. But I think whether you're
the adult trying to talk to, or
the parent trying to talk to
your adult children or adult
children T talking to your
parents try to think about using
I statements avoid you don't you
should you never those, even if
it's your heart is not intended
that way. It's blaming and
shaming and people get
defensive. But it's really
important conversations, you
know, I'm worried about you and
I don't think you have had
enough money saved. Can we just
figure out, you know, what do
you have in mind? What have you
taken care of What haven't you
taken care of, and this can be
tied in also to end of life
issues and wishes, you know, if
the adult children are going to
be you know, healthcare proxies
or power of attorney, it's so
important to have these
conversations and people often
put it off it's tied into your
question about why people don't
plan sometimes people don't want
to plan because if you think
ahead then you have to think
about up. I'm not gonna live
forever, and people with that.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah, and I
mean, literally when when you
say they want to avoid it, or
they'd like to avoid it like I
have heard from so Many people
when I say why are you not
having a more thoughtful
conversation with your parents
about preparing for long term
care or just buying long term
care insurance? It's because
we're wired in this way, that we
know that death is an
inevitability, right? But we
don't think about it. Because
when you accept that component,
at least, this is what this is
what the good the greater
society teaches you. And once
you accept that component, then
you're essentially going against
your instincts. And you're, you
know, you're not going to live
every single day to the fullest,
but I believe that it's the
opposite.
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: I agree
with you. Yeah, I totally agree
with you. I mean, I honestly
believe that knowing that death
exists, and none of us are going
to live forever makes life more
precious. also believe that it's
an act of love to sit down with
parents and adult children or
whomever I mean, not everybody
has children, and but whoever is
important in your life to sit
down and talk about these
things. It's an act of love.
Because if you don't, then, you
know, if something happens
unexpectedly, and you know, you
died, suddenly, I mean, we see
it happen all the time, with
natural disasters, too, or with
terrorist attacks, or any many
different ways. At the time of
loss and crisis. It's hard
enough. And so if the survivors
are left not knowing what you
would like, it's just it
compounds it. So I view it as an
act of love. And just on a
personal example, like, what was
about 40 years ago, now, when my
father was dying, he, you know,
he used to be a pretty
controlling person, and I didn't
like that, but I liked that he
was controlling in this way. And
he, my brother, and I flew out
to California where they lived.
And he knew he was sick, and he
knew he was dying. And we didn't
know when it was going to be,
but he said, We need to talk.
And my brother said, Well, no, I
don't think we need to talk. And
I said, Yes, we do. And it was
so helpful. And it really helped
me appreciate that he gave us
the information about what the
accounts were, where keys were,
I got my name on the checking
account, not to have it and but
it was or, you know, and knowing
that I wasn't going to do it
unless I had to talked about
what he wanted, end of life. My
mother talked about what she
wanted, you know, I was her
health care proxy, my brother
was his, it was such a relief,
to have that information. So
when he did die, you know, it
still took a while to deal with
all the stuff we had to deal
with. But we knew we knew the
passwords. I mean, that's
another thing. We have a digital
life as well as a real life. And
it's a, it's an act of love to
survivors, that at the time when
you need to take over, that you
know how to do it. And, you
know, return to so I you know, I
speak from personal experience,
and I, you know, work with my
clients on that, too. So,
Kosta Yepifantsev: before we
wrap up, I want to talk about
everyone's favorite topic,
inflation. How does inflation
impact retirement? And how much
can inflation change someone's
retirement plans?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: You know,
I would, I do know that
everybody is focused on
inflation. I think inflation is
part of it. But not the whole
thing. I mean, I think the
reality is, things cost money,
and that sometimes they cost
more money, other times, maybe
less money. I think the issue
from my perspective is we're
living longer, and we really
don't want to outlive our money.
So I think if right now, we're
there's some inflation that
needs to inform in some way. You
know, your notions about when to
retire, you know, a people I
think it's, you know, the idea
of 62 or 65. You know, it really
was when the lifespan was much
shorter. I think it is really
helpful, whether it be inflation
or knowing there's the unknown
of healthcare needs or whatever
else might happen in the
economy. Many people it is
important to rethink that the 60
to 65 is not such a magical age.
And if you really want to have
you know, options for your
lifestyle choices, then part of
it may be needing to recognize
that you need to work longer
doesn't necessarily mean working
longer, full time. But it may be
that part of your retirement
vision is you know, let's not
work out as much but let's still
bring some money in so that, you
know you're adding to your nest
egg.
Kosta Yepifantsev: What is the
more appropriate age to retire
if it's not 62 and 65. And I
know you're not saying that it's
a just a specific number, but
like if you were a policymaker,
and you had to put a number on
when people should retire, and
bring it back to when they first
created the law in 1937, where
Social Security was, you know,
eligible at age X, what age is
more appropriate now?
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: I think
more and more people are working
into their 70s. But, but part of
it depends on what the kind of
work is. I mean, some people
truly reach their prime in their
70s. And I mean, I'm in my late
70s, I still work and love it,
my husband actually just turned
91, he still works part time.
And so there's no right, but but
he is doing it because he loves
doing it. Right. And, you know,
not everybody loves their work.
But if you can, you know, if
you're so lucky to have a
profession that, that you do
love, or, I mean, the beauty of
getting older is it's not too
late to learn something new. And
you might want to morph some of
the skills you have into
something else and maybe work in
a different way. But I think I
think more I'm seeing more and
more people work into their 70s.
I mean, I think early 60s is way
too early. But again, if people
have some physical issues, or
it's, it's a really difficult
job in terms of stamina, and
their, you know, health issues
and stuff like that, you know,
maybe you do need to work later.
But think about how you might be
able to repurpose some of the
skills you have. If you still
need to earn some additional
money. So you have more choices.
Kosta Yepifantsev: We always
like to end the show with a call
to action. For anyone that feels
behind or like they didn't start
preparing early enough. What can
we all do today to start
planning for a better
retirement.
Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: So I
always say it's never too late.
And it's never too early. It's
harder when it's later. But I
think it's not too late. So I
think I'm a believer, no matter
how much or how little money you
have to talk with a financial
planner, preferably one that has
what's called a holistic view,
which is they're they're viewing
money as a tool, and helping you
really think about what your
lifestyle options are and what
you want. But I think that would
be one way to start. I think
that there's a lot of resources
out there. I actually have a
list but it's okay to say I have
a monthly free webinar series on
the fourth Tuesday of each
month. Free open to public and
professionals called
revolutionize your retirement
interview with experts series to
help you create a fulfilling
second half of life. I encourage
you it's free signups always the
week before. And it's every
month except December. I'm in my
11th year of it. And to
celebrate the 10th year starting
last year earlier, interviews
are now released his podcasts
that you also can have access to
for free. So there's a lot that
I have out there. There are
other organizations out there.
So I think it's helpful to think
about it's not too late, you
know, you can talk with a
financial planner, their
retirement coaches around, talk
with friends, you know, often
people don't think they should
talk about retirement next stage
of life, I really encourage you
to realize you're not alone. And
there's a lot of help and
support available to you. So
that would be kind of little
action steps.
Caroline Moore: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of
Now or Never Long-Term Care
Strategy with Kosta
Yepifantsev.If you enjoyed
listening and you wanna hear
more make sure you subscribe on
Apple podcast Spotify or
wherever you find your
Podcasts,leave us a review or
better yet share this episode
with a friend. Today’s episode
was written and produced by
Morgan Franklin. Want to find
out more about Kosta? Visit us
at kostayepifantsev.com