Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Recorded at Roger Gracie Academy Marlow
Hosted by Callum Medcraft and produced by Damien Bidmead
John E. Collins is a British rower. He competed at the Olympics in the Double Sculls event at both the 2016 Rio and 2020 Tokyo Olympics. Collins won a silver medal at the 2017 World Rowing Championships in Sarasota, Florida, as part of the quadruple sculls with Jack Beaumont, Jonathan Walton, and Graeme Thomas.
Jiu Jitsu Fieldnotes is a podcast about what really happens on the mats.
Rooted in the community at Roger Gracie Academy Marlow — one of the UK's most respected BJJ academies — this show captures the stories, lessons, and quiet transformations that happen through Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Not just the techniques, but the people behind them.
Each episode explores the personal side of training. The friendships forged through shared struggle. The setbacks that force growth. The moments where something clicks — physically, mentally, or emotionally — and changes how you see yourself. Because Brazilian Jiu Jitsu isn't just good for the body. It builds resilience, sharpens focus, and has a way of quietly sorting out your head too.
This isn't a podcast about champions or highlight reels. It's about the everyday practitioners. The early mornings. The injuries. The small victories. The long road from confusion to clarity.
Whether you're a white belt stepping onto the mats for the first time or a black belt who's spent decades refining your craft, these are the stories that connect everyone who trains.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu isn't just something you do. It's something you live.
These are the field notes.
🥋 Find us at Roger Gracie Academy Marlow: https://rgamarlow.com/
Jui Jitsu Fieldnotes #4 John Collins
===
Podcast Introductions
---
Meet John on the Pod
---
[00:00:00]
John Collins: ~Mainland Britain rowing from the north of Scotland to the north out the top of the Shetlands. ~
Callum: ~Oh my God. How long does that take? ~
John Collins: ~Uh, I, I actually don't know. He did ask if I wanted to do it and I was like, are you okay? Thanks. Alright, ~
Callum: ~thanks mate. ~
John Collins: ~Yeah, ~
Callum: ~my, um, I'll, I'll mention him in when it comes up. My, I think I told you my brother-in-law was a sprint canoeist.~
John Collins: ~Yes. ~
Callum: ~When he, when he retired he did a few, I don't think anywhere near as mental as that, but he did, like, he went and did a load of races that he was wanted to do that he hadn't done that were like on the, like he did that like devises to Westminster and Oh yeah. And then uh, some other one where in Ireland where that's quite dangerous.~
~Where it was all, yeah. ~
John Collins: ~There's loads of stupid stuff for ~
Callum: ~ah. ~
John Collins: ~Look at that. ~
Callum: ~Look how much bigger than me. You look, John. ~
John Collins: ~Yeah, I don't, I've even wore a slimming top ~
Callum: ~slimming. ~
John Collins: ~Are you happy with the shot? ~
Callum: ~Yeah. As long as you are. ~
Damo: ~Well, yeah. ~
Callum: ~I can uh, look at this. How it's all clever. I like, I'm jealous of the size of Domo's iPad.~
~You said ~
John Collins: ~it's very big. ~
Callum: ~Isn't And his laptop. In his laptop to me. Well you say that demo. It feels more like someone who's accommodating for something. ~
Damo: ~I looked at everything you own bought a size bigger? ~
Callum: ~Yeah. Okay, fine. ~
Damo: ~Except ~
John Collins: ~T-shirt. ~
Callum: ~Except T-shirt. Yeah. We've both got the same t-shirts on and they're both on the more fitted side.~
~'cause we're happy with our Yeah, ~
Damo: ~I bet you was just like a ~
Callum: ~medium. Medium. Yeah. Largest. Doesn't look like a regular. It's the fit though. No, it's a nice, it's a nice fit. ~
Damo: ~It's also, um, that I have put four kilos. It seems to come outta nowhere. ~
Callum: ~I've put on quite a lot since I've been doing creatine. ~
Damo: ~That's why.~
Callum: ~Yeah, ~
John Collins: ~because ~
Damo: ~you spoke to also, I mean, I do exercise a fair bit, but I feel like I've been. A bit. ~
Callum: ~Have you over ~
Damo: ~there bit? Yeah. ~
Callum: ~Oh yeah. That's fucking boring, isn't it? ~
Damo: ~It's boring, but I think that's one. ~
John Collins: ~Six packs come from the fridge though, don't they? They, the gym. The gym is not ~
Damo: ~No, I know. I can't have on a bad diet and all that.~
John Collins: ~Yeah. ~
Damo: ~There has to be a cake involved. ~
Callum: ~I do like a bit of cake as well, but I feel like my, uh, what you call it, um, kryptonite is just volume of anything. Yeah, ~
John Collins: ~sure. Yeah. ~
Callum: ~The fridge is there on bored. It's in my mouth. It's a shame. ~
John Collins: ~Yeah, yeah, ~
Damo: ~yeah, yeah. Tricky, right? Okay. More lovers. ~
Callum: ~Sure. You ~
Damo: ~drink. ~
Callum: ~I'm all right, mate.~
~As long as you're all right, John. ~
John Collins: ~Yeah, I'm all good. ~
Callum: ~If you need to stop or anything, we can as well, but p or whatever, can you stop ~
Damo: ~just do this at me? ~
John Collins: ~Yeah. ~
Damo: ~And I'll hit the button. We'll just keep the camera on the table. ~
John Collins: ~I'll give you my safe word. ~
Callum: ~You got one? ~
John Collins: ~No. ~
Damo: ~What? That's the safe word or, ~
John Collins: ~or ~
Callum: ~tap is my safe word.~
~Yeah, that is a good, safe word. ~
Damo: ~It's been rolling for the last two minutes and 30 seconds. Brilliant. Feel free to just run it in. I'm gonna sit here. ~
Callum: ~Damon's gonna sit down, ~
Damo: ~monitor it. ~
Callum: ~Yeah, ~
Damo: ~you should because it's quite echoing in here. It's not bad. ~
Callum: ~Yeah. ~
Damo: ~But if you do want, talk to me at any point, if I say something, it'll pick up anyway.~
Callum: ~Yeah, yeah. Fair. Nice. She'll get a little bit of it if we, this is how it's, it is worked so far. John Hass been lurking in the background and I've just treated it as if he is here. ~
John Collins: ~Yeah. ~
Callum: ~Which is fair enough. ~
John Collins: ~It's kind of like, you know, Jamie on Joe Rogan. ~
Callum: ~Yes. ~
John Collins: ~Where you kind of like, hear, hears little echo and this little voice in the background, ~
Callum: ~Jamie.~
John Collins: ~Yeah. ~
Callum: ~Although I imagine young Jamie is not as young as, ~
John Collins: ~as ~
Damo: ~long ~
John Collins: ~as ~
Damo: ~he wants, ~
Callum: ~as he as he was, or as he thinks him doing it a long time, haven't they? ~
Damo: ~Yeah, they're, yeah. ~
Callum: ~Yeah. Nice. Right. John? ~
Damo: Hello.
Callum: Hello, John.
Damo: Hi.
Callum: Thank you for coming onto the podcast. It's
Damo: my pleasure.
Callum: Which, um, I've forgotten what we called it.
Damo: Well, it's
Callum: Jujitsu Field Notes, jujitsu Field Notes jitsu. Thank you for coming onto Juujitsu Field notes, John. So, um, you are a very interesting man for a number of reasons. Everyone interesting who we've asked. Come on. Here you are all like, well, I'm not really, and it's like, well, you are right. Yeah.
Finding Rowing Late
---
Finding Rowing Late
---
Callum: So we should probably start at the beginning, if you don't mind.
I have made show notes as usual, but stating the obvious, you are a former rower. You've been two Olympic games amongst other regattas. That's a rowing term, isn't it?
John Collins: Mm-hmm.
Callum: Yeah. Big regattas. Um, but could you let me know, or just tell us how you first ended up going down that route of rowing?
John Collins: Um, I, the only thing I did competitively before [00:01:00] rowing was eat haribo and play PlayStation.
Um, I, yeah, I was, I was not an athletic person before I discovered rowing but I did the Duke of Edinburgh award.
Damo: Oh
John Collins: yeah. Um, and as part of that, you have to do a sport. Um, and I went to a quite sporty school in London. Like I, um, a place called Orleans Park in Twickenham and down the road from the rugby ground.
And, um, yeah, my, I, I couldn't run 'cause I was a bit chunky. So like running is not good for chunky people. Um, and I can't catch either. Uh, so, uh, despite the fact my school was awesome at rugby, I just played absolutely no part in that success. Um, and my dad had rowed and my granddad had rowed and he was desperate for me to row, but had only ever tried to get me into rowing.
by putting me on a rowing machine, and if you've ever touched a rowing machine, you'll notice it's just utter misery. Um, but because I had to do the sport for Duke, of Edinburgh, he, I was like, [00:02:00] right, I'll go and try rowing. Um, so he took me down to a club, uh, called Punny Town, and I went out in a double with a guy called Jeff, who I think he's now the club president.
He was, he had some role back then as well. Uh, he, um, but he, yeah, he took me out in a double and, um. Just afterwards, you know, I, I, I hated it to be honest. It's, it's a hard sport. Um, it's like, it's when you first start as well, it super seems super complicate, complicated. Um, and then yeah, did the session and, uh, afterwards my dad was like, so how'd you get on?
And Jeff was like, oh, he, you know what? He was really good. And I was like, oh, well I guess, I guess I best do this then. 'cause this is what I'm, what I'm good at. And that was basically it. It just like got really out of hand from there. Um,
Callum: what age was that, John?
John Collins: 15.
Callum: Okay.
John Collins: 15 coming towards 16 maybe. Um, yeah, 2005.
I wanna say that that was, um, yeah, and I, I, I, you [00:03:00] know, I, I was, I'd say I had some talent for it. Um, like I, you know, I did, I worked quite hard quite quickly, but when someone told me I was good, I was like, I would try hard now. Mm-hmm. This is the thing, I would try hard. Um, and so I overtook a few of the like men's team there when I was still quite young on, on the rowing machine.
Um, and then across the road from that rowing club was another one that was a bit more serious. And I went over there and one of the first things that I met this guy called Alan Ins who'd coached at a, an Olympics already, he'd been in charge of, um, Cambridge for a while. Um, and he, I dunno if you've ever heard of a film called True Blue, it's like an eighties film about the Oxford Boat race mutiny.
Um, there's a couple of like reasonably famous faces in it. But he was the Cambridge coach when that film was made. I
Callum: don't even know what that, the Oxford Boat race muting it.
John Collins: It was [00:04:00] just, they got a bunch of Americans in who, like, wanted to run the show and um, this coach called Dan Polsky, basically like turfed them all out and still managed to win the boat race without all his stars in the boat, but,
Callum: right, right.
John Collins: It, it's all to be fair. Yeah. Um, anyway, Alan was this great coach and he, the, one of the first things he said to me was like, oh, you know, how do you, how do you feel about going to the Olympics? And I, it's the first time anyone had actually ever put that question to me and I was like, yeah, I wanna do that.
And, um, I didn't even know if I did, but like, that was the, that, so that was like a, a year and a bit into rowing. Okay. Someone, someone asked me that question and obviously even the process of someone going like, do you wanna do this? Yes. Yeah. And me saying yes, it was like all of a sudden that's the direction I was pointing in.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Uh, from quite an early age. And yeah, it just kind of, every year progressed more and more from there,
Callum: from there.
Early Races and Breakthrough
---
Early Races Breakthrough
---
Callum: So at what point do you do like a. Competitive race or re regatta? Like is it, was that a year in and you'd already been, because I know you're saying in the gym you'd [00:05:00] like on an ergo whatever you are, like, you're quicker than X, Y, Z.
But the competitive side of it, like when did that start happening, if you know what I mean?
John Collins: I mean, quite early. So I did, um, I did, uh, qualifiers for Henley Royal Regatta. Mm-hmm. Quite early on. Um, I was the second slowest non qualifier. So like we did really badly. And then the next year we did the same thing again, except this time, or we, sorry, we didn't even have to do qualifiers the next year.
'cause we'd done well at the national schools regatta. Right. So then we were pre-qualified, so we then made it through a round, lost in the second round. Um, so you do, you do we did do those things pretty early. Yeah. Got you. Um, so yeah, like, and, and I didn't do my first sort of national trial until I was, uh, my last year of junior.
So I'd been 17, 18 at that time.
Callum: Right. Okay.
John Collins: Um. I did there, there's a race called the Pairs Head, which is like, you get about two or 300 crews in that.
Callum: Right.
John Collins: Um, and I was really lucky that I, I, there was a [00:06:00] guy called Tim Male who'd done an, an Olympic, uh, two Olympics. Um, and he was meant to do it with another junior who was better than me.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: But that guy couldn't make it that weekend, so didn't do it. And then there was another junior ahead of me who he was then gonna do it with, who also couldn't make it. So I was like the third tier person to do it with him.
Callum: Okay.
John Collins: And, um, I, I was like, it was, you know, I was like, awesome, I'll get to do it.
And we did the race and afterwards Tim was like, you, you did really well there. Like, what? Whatever the result is, you know, we deserve that. Like, it wasn't a bad row. Like you did, you did your best and that was, you know, can't ask for any more than that. And it was like, oh, cool. So when the result results came out, we were kind of looking, going, I can't find, find us anywhere.
And we were at the top and, and, and I, yeah, I was 17. At 17, I won this. Massive race, um, you know, like the elite category, so beating all like these under 23 trialists and things like that. And at that point it was like, okay, it like, we're gonna do trials, we're gonna take this pretty seriously. So
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: Um,
Callum: that's amazing.
Pathway to Team GB
---
Joining Team GB Pathway
---
Callum: And at [00:07:00] what point then, John, with that, at what point do you become like part of the, uh, the, the, uh, what, the GBT kind of thing, how does that transition kind of work? If, if you know what I mean from Yeah,
John Collins: so you do trials, um, you know, there's a series of trials every year. You have, um, like, I can't remember if it's like four trials.
It depends what age group you're in, but you have all of these trials and, um, you work your way through the age groups where you do these things. And you might go to like a, a few international bits as a junior or an under 23 whilst you're still at your club.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, and if you are on the right pathway.
So I, you know, I was, I was probably on the older side of things when I got into the team. I'd done a couple of under 23 World Championships at this point, uh, rowing for, uh, both Redding University Boat Club and Leander. And then, um, I was just kind of like the next in line basically. So, um, [00:08:00] I was kind of one of the top guys at Leander and there wasn't really anyone else around in front of me.
Um, so when the London Olympics lot kind of did their retirement, I was part of a group that was kind of shuffled off to the national training centers to start training there. Um, and it's just one of those things where over time they just kind of collect these people, uh, in this huge group. And the group gets smaller and smaller as time goes on.
Until you're left with like, who's gonna replace the seats that become empty.
Callum: No way. So, um, I have a little bit of knowledge of, I think I've told you before, my brother's a sprint canoe. So were you based at ey? Is that where you were?
John Collins: Uh, no. No. Uh, so when before I was on the team, I was at Leaner, which is in Heavy Yeah, sure.
And then the National Team trainer, uh, a lake in Caversham.
Callum: Oh, do they? Okay.
John Collins: Yeah. So we have our own training center, which I think we were supposed to share with, uh, British Canal kayaking. Uh, but they, it just never seemed to happen.
Callum: Yeah, yeah. Got, yeah.
Funding and Making Ends Meet
---
Funding Athlete Reality
---
Callum: And for, I'm always intrigued by, [00:09:00] um, there's been quite, there's quite a lot of debate isn't there, around, um.
Uh, maybe it's a bit of an edgy thing to say, but like people who are Olympians mm-hmm. And, or, you know, aspiring Olympians or full-time, uh, athletes, you get like levels of funding, don't you? Via Sport England, I guess. Yeah,
John Collins: yeah, yeah. Yeah. UK sport. It's
Callum: UK sport, yeah. Um, but it's not something where, I dunno how it worked for you, but I know it was very much sort of like performance related for say my, my brother-in-law.
So was it difficult for you to manage like even financially at first, that kind of thing or, you know, 'cause I think Rowing's one of the better supporters Yeah. In sports, but Yeah.
John Collins: I mean, it is a very expensive sport. Mm-hmm. So even though there is a lot of money in like UK Sport Fund rowing a lot
Callum: mm-hmm.
Because we're good at it, right. Like Yeah.
John Collins: Um, we don't get, the athletes don't get a huge amount. Mm-hmm. So I didn't get a penny until I was through the door at Caversham.
Callum: Got you.
John Collins: Um, nowadays they're a bit better at supporting like the up and coming talent. Mm. Um, you know, on their [00:10:00] way into the team. I, you know, I was really lucky whilst I was training at, um, Leander that I could do a bit of coaching work.
Um, and also my parents helped me, just helped me out load. Like they, um, like, I mean in, in retrospect it was like, I'm quite surprised, like, I dunno if I would've had the strength. 'cause it took me a long time to sort of work my way through the sort of, it was like four years of under 23 stuff that was like, it was, I was improving, but quite slowly.
Um, and the fact that they kind of were willing to help me, it's not like they, my parents aren't wealthy like it that's gonna sting every month. Yeah. Got you.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, but they, they did, you know, they did. I mean, my dad once or twice had a conversation with me where he was like, do you think it's maybe time to get a job?
Callum: Mm.
John Collins: Um, but you know, when things started going my way a bit more, obviously, they were just like, oh, that's fine. We've [00:11:00] gotta
Callum: go there.
John Collins: Um, so yeah. No, that is tough. But then once you're, yeah, once you're in the door, uh, you get your, your, your grant, which is performance related. Mm-hmm. It's quite modest. Um, you know, you're still, you're certainly not living a lavish lifestyle.
No. Yeah. Um, and the grants haven't really adjusted for inflation.
Callum: No.
John Collins: Since, since I joined the team. Yeah. This is
Callum: what I heard. Yeah.
John Collins: It, I think the last upgrade was last year.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Since 2013.
Callum: Yeah. And isn't it a case of if you privately earn, like, through sponsorships more than what your funding is, it's like you have to give your funding back or something along that, are you
John Collins: Yeah, but that's, I mean, I'd say that's quite a.
If you are at that point, it's a good problem. Yeah. You're doing very well for yourself. There's one, there's been one or two people that have been like, oh, actually can't get funding.
Callum: Can't get funding, yeah. Kind of thing. But,
John Collins: but it, it's very rare. 'cause also, especially with rowing, it's such a time consuming training regime that you don't really have time to do much other than at best, like a tiny little side hustle.[00:12:00]
Callum: Exactly.
Olympic Training Reality
---
Olympic Training Grind
---
Callum: Well that, I mean, that segues in. I wanted to ask you about the training, because this is just my observation. So I used to work in, um, for a football club and a rugby club for a while. Um, Chelsea and London wasps and my observations around their training was, was quite interesting. And then, sorry.
And I have insight to like British Judo, 'cause I did British Judo magazine and I always remember, you know, people ask me about like, they must train, really train really hard at like football, at football. And I was, I'm always really honest, I was like, preseason, maybe they're running a lot. But I was like, they're almost like finely tuned race cars.
I was like, in the week I was like. They're not on the grass for a lot and they're definitely not like busting their balls. It's kind of like just keeping them, they're here ready to go and play two games a week.
Damo: Mm-hmm.
Callum: Whereas I was like, the Rugby Boys, I was like, it's like they've had two car crashes at the weekend and it's just like recovery in the week.
And then the judo guys, I was like, they're the ones where I really tip my hack. So I was like, they have like grueling sparring sessions. Mm. Grueling strength and conditioning, [00:13:00] like really, you know? Um, and then having li I know it's a different sport.
John Collins: Mm.
Callum: Having lived with my brother, who, a brother-in-law is a sprint canoeist.
Mm. I was kind of in awe of the sort of, they called it LT training, like the LA lacto. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the lifting that they were doing.
John Collins: Yeah. The
Callum: point I'm getting at is I, I'm imagining your training is, especially if you're leaning into like an Olympics, is, is pr about as bleak as it can get? I dunno what it looked like for you.
John Collins: It's, um, it's a weird one. So it's it's a lot of trait. Yeah. It's volume more than anything. Like I. I can't remember what the exact number is, but I wanna say we used to row on average about 170 kilometers a week. Which isn't so, that doesn't like to, any rower who hears that would be like, oh, that's not that much.
But that's like in big training blocks. Like we used to go on a training camp to Portugal where we, I think we managed to just about touch 500 kilometers in 12 days. Um, and so you are, you're rowing, you're, you're probably rowing for [00:14:00] like three and a half hours worth of actual rowing time a day.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Uh, and a weight session on top of that.
And you with that, it's, it's sort of low to mid intensity. So, um, you're talking heart rate somewhere in the region of like 130 to 150 feet a minute for that whole time. It's like a, what you'd call like a controllable jog. Mm. But, uh, you know, just the right intensity where you're building an engine. And also just low enough that you can perfect a movement again and again and again.
Mm. Um, so it's very, it's like the, it's like a chronic fatigue as a, um, more than anything. And then, but then twice a week, so Wednesday, generally Wednesdays and Saturdays for us, we would do something a bit more high intensity, which is pretty, uh, that, that's the sort of the thing. If ever you see like videos put out from, uh, of the tough training that we do, generally they'll take that from either Wednesday or Saturday.
Callum: Okay. So you've got like that one or two of them a week kind of thing. Yeah.
John Collins: You don't see [00:15:00] us just plotting up and down the lake. No. What you do see is, like in the gym on Wednesdays, we used to do a, a 30 minute test, which is like, so on the ergo uh, sorry, the rowing machine. Um, 30 minutes at 20 strokes a minute.
So it's quite a low cadence, but a very, very high power output.
Callum: Right.
John Collins: Okay. So I, I like, I think that's. That session, especially when I came to jujitsu, has like helped me massively. 'cause it's like just pure strength endurance, like absolutely Yankee on a handle for 600 times. Um, uh, that, that, that, that was bleak.
And then Saturdays we'd do, uh, like the, like three, 2000 meter pieces or something like that, uh, which is our Olympic distance. And you kind of control tempo, control those, but they kind of step up and the last bit will be fairly maximal, usually
Callum: amazing.
John Collins: Um, so it's like, yeah, that's really hard. But most of it is like volume
Callum: travel.
Okay. 'cause my perce like as well, you know, when you look at, um, you are right, it's what's, it's what sort of sexier to show on TV as well, isn't it? Absolutely. I [00:16:00] remember seeing bits of Red Grave in his last Olympics. It was just him like falling off rowing machines dying.
John Collins: I mean, to be fair, that's 'cause he was like terribly ill then.
Callum: Was he really?
John Collins: Yeah, he had, he was wrestling with diabetes and he also. Colitis.
Callum: Oh, bless him. God, yes.
John Collins: So yeah, he's, I mean, he, he's come back well from that 'cause it's like, that's the sort of thing, it's
Callum: a debilitating thing, man. Yeah.
John Collins: That takes years off your life and stuff. Especially with that training alongside as
Callum: well.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah.
Boat Classes and the Double
---
Boat Classes Double Focus
---
Callum: Well, so, and you were, it was a two boat, wasn't it? You were in, or you were in a mixture, weren't you? Throughout, I'm sure you tried a lot of everything, right?
John Collins: Yeah, I think I raced, I, I, I raced most boat classes over the course of my time rowing. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I spent most of my years in, in the team in a double, I did two years in a quad, which, uh, well, I, I, two years and like a bit of a year in a quad.
Mm-hmm. I probably preferred the quad, to be honest. It was more fun, but Okay. Uh, the double is what I just ended up in most. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I did, I do like the double and there's also like a badge of honor with that. 'cause it was a very [00:17:00] brutal event.
Callum: Right. Okay.
John Collins: In terms of like the. There was always the most number of highly competitive crews.
Callum: Oh, really?
John Collins: So you could have like your 10th ranked crew, and that would be like still Absolutely rapid. Absolutely rapid. And it was always one of the events where it would operate at the closest gap to world record. Right. Uh, compared to a lot of other events. So like
Callum: middleweight and jujitsu, like all of their big
John Collins: Yeah.
Yeah. So, so it is just one of those things where like e even though even the years where we weren't doing it, I, I wasn't doing as well in it. It was always like, everyone was kind of like, fair play to you kind of thing. So yeah, it was, it, that was my, that was my main, my main event.
Callum: Yeah. Nice.
Qualifying for Rio
---
Road to Rio Selection
---
Callum: So tell us a little bit again, I, you know, I'm always intrigued and like, in order to be honest, like the, the Olympic dream, right.
When you get sold, sold that idea so young as you did, and that gets planted, you know, most people don't get there. Um, how for you, was it, did you [00:18:00] know, at what point did you know, I'm going to Rio, if that makes sense. And then I guess, how did it feel when you, when you finally arrived there, you know, like, did you know like a year in advance or do you know what I mean, or
John Collins: No?
Um, we, I was in the double from, uh, so my first year in the team was 20, the 2013 season. I actually got dropped from the team for, I was just not good enough basically. Mm-hmm. But managed to like, weasel my way back in by, there was a, a, a spare, like a second eight racing, which I got into, um, basically 'cause they ran out of people.
So, uh, I used that as my, like vessel back into the team. Mm-hmm. So 2014 season I managed to make the double. I had a really, I was really lucky, um, that I, I, I had like, um. A very unique set of circumstances where, where I hadn't been selected for the 2013 World Championships. I was then put on a very special training program with a group of other guys for this study.
And that helped me massively for the autumn of the [00:19:00] following season, uh, where we had a lot of trials that I did very well in because I'd done this program. I then got injured, so I got a bulging disc in my back and had two months where I, I didn't have to do anything other than work on myself. Uh, I was sat on a static bike looking out onto the lake, doing like sometimes three and a half hours a day just of like churning my legs.
Wow. Um, and working on my bench press. And that was basically it, uh, for, yeah, two months. So when I came back from that, I was like a completely different athlete. Mm-hmm. Um, so I was really lucky that I was almost really lucky that I got injured and that gave that, so that got me into the double in 2014.
We were. A great combination, but we weren't very strong.
Callum: Okay.
John Collins: And we had a lot of work to do. And so we were, we, because at that time, the GB men's team was the most successful row team in the world. And we were basically one of the only crews very [00:20:00] regularly we were going to regattas and we would be the only men's crew without a medal.
So going into the Olympic year, we did our first regatta, which was the European Championships training had been going okay. Like we'd definitely moved on 20 14, 15 16, we'd qualified in 2015, um, in this like horrifically stressful race. Um, and yeah, so 2016 we, we went to Europeans and we came sick, but we got like drilled in the final and it was one of those things where it made us look like there was no real hope of a Olympic medal that year.
And so Mark, our coach was like, you're probably gonna get tested. Against the spares. Right. Um, and so me and Johnny had always sat with Johnny in front of me behind him, and Mark was like, look, you are, uh, this is our coach. He was like, look, we're gonna switch you around because when you do the testing you need, you're gonna be vulnerable in the other seats if you don't, haven't rode in them.
And it was like, fair enough. Uh, [00:21:00] 'cause you know, each seat feels a bit different, so you wanna get used to the feeling of the other seat.
Callum: Right. Got you.
John Collins: So we switch around and we had, uh, another World Cup, um, in Lucerne in Switzerland. And the, the other way round we had, we just had like an all right regatta, but we raced the duck, the spares in a double, in the, um, in, in that regatta.
And we like absolutely smashed them. And at that point it was kind of like, it just kind of drew a line under that and was like, that doubt. There's no question there. Yeah,
Callum: yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um, and actually then the World Cup, after that, we won our first medal, like it was for both of us. It was our first international medal.
And that was the last World Cup before the Olympics as well. So that was like the, it was going, hold on, sorry. This could, something could happen here.
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um, so yeah, I'd say coming home from Lucerne was when I was like, yeah, this is on.
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um,
Callum: amazing.
John Collins: If I like, yeah, if I think about it, but it's, there's never a really a and even when you get the letter to be like, [00:22:00] congratulations, you already know.
Right.
John Collins: Um, there's no, like, it is kind of like an evolution into the seat rather than a like clear cut
Callum: moment. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
Kitting Out and Village Life
---
Kitting Out Village Life
---
Callum: And then when, um, so I, again, I remember around the London Olympics 'cause I was doing British Studio Magazine and, um, one of my friends who I met from my brother-in-law, he was competing at the London Olympics.
I remember when they knew they were going there was all this sort of amazing, it must have been an amazing experience when they like go and pick their kids up. Did you do that in Rio? Did you get like your
John Collins: Yeah, so, so we went to, um. We went to the, to Birmingham, to the, uh, was it the NEC?
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: In Birmingham.
And did, um, it's called kitting Out day. And you basically have your own like personal shopper.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah.
John Collins: And you go into this like, it is like a, it looks like a JD Sports or something that everything's Addy da and everything is like logo D and your person you'll try stuff on and they'll be like, Hmm, I reckon you should go like a size smaller in that.
And um, at the end of it, you [00:23:00] basically get like two, it was like a, basically like a luggage trolley with two massive suitcases and some like smaller bags just full of kit. It was
Callum: all your kit.
John Collins: Uh, we, we weighed it and it was 65 kilos of kit. Um, but you're talking like suits or a suit? Shoes. Uh, you got like smart shoes, casual shoes, two pairs of trainers, um, like flip flops.
Um, yeah, like all of it. And. There's just so much stuff. There's
Callum: so much stuff.
John Collins: I even got like a gold spo, it's not, obviously not gold, but it's like looks gold a spoon from Kellogg's with my name on it.
Callum: No way.
John Collins: That's amazing. Yeah, there's like, we didn't get that for Tokyo because, um, like with COVID and stuff like that, there was a lot of like Ming and ing about, like in retrospect everyone was kind of annoyed that we didn't get to do that.
Yeah. 'cause it was like things were calming down at that point. Um, but it, yeah, the Tokyo experience was very, very different from the Rio experience. Right. Like, Rio was like, ev we got all bells and whistles were attached to [00:24:00] that. Tokyo was much more sterile.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, but we did get to stay in the village for the competition, which kind of was different.
Callum: I was gonna say, 'cause stop me if I'm wrong, is the rowing the second week of the games generally speaking,
John Collins: or No? So Rowing's the first week of the games. Oh, okay. Um, but generally speaking, most Olympics, the rowing, because obviously a 2000 meter lake is quite a big bit of infrastructure. Yeah. So generally the, uh, rowing lake will be away from.
Uh, the village?
Callum: Yes, I've got you.
John Collins: So like in Rio Rio's, kind of like divided into different parts and where the village was, was quite a long way from where the rowing was. So rather than doing like a, an hour long commute mm-hmm. Something, it was very variable. 'cause Rio traffic is all over the shop. Um, we stayed in a hotel just around the court, basically team GB commandeered a hotel.
And so us and the kayakers, and I think there was some cyclists there at one point, um, stayed in this like team GB hotel, uh, for the regatta. Uh, so, but so in the second week when we were all done, we moved to the visit. I
Callum: was just about to say, I'm [00:25:00] sure you moved in,
John Collins: so it was like party time at that point.
Callum: Well that, that's the point I was gonna get. 'cause I think, um, uh, again, from what I've been told, the Olympic Village is quite an interesting place from that perspective. 'cause you've got athletes who have like. Finished.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: And they're done. And they're obviously in that. Yeah. It must be quite unusual.
John Collins: Well, so, so with the, the team GB policy, which I only realized afterwards, is that all the competing athletes stay higher up to tower.
Callum: Ah, okay.
John Collins: Um, so the, the, the later you compete the high you stay.
Callum: Got you.
John Collins: So all the, the drunken slots stay quite low down, um, so they don't disturb anyone.
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um, but like, it, it is a bit like that, but generally I think people are quite res, like it seemed very respectful.
There wasn't much in the way of like, people, there wasn't much crossover between performing athletes and, you know, and generally we were out most of the day anyway.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: So we didn't, and night, so didn't have much of a chance to get in anyone's way.
Racing Rio and Rough Water
---
Rio Racing Chaos
---
Callum: So with that in mind, [00:26:00] um, just asking you about your, you know, which we'll bridge into Jiujitsu I guess, but as someone who's so used to com competition competitive, did it feel different when you were, like, sat in your seat for the first.
Race of a, of an Olympic games. Oh
John Collins: yeah. Massively.
Callum: Yeah. And am I right in saying there was some controversy around the, was it a bit choppy then, Rio, or, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: I mean there was that. It's all, it's um, they try and it was actually, I got quite angry about this afterwards, but the angry strong word. But in a lot of the talks you get prior, you know, there's a lot of people that will come and say to you, oh, it's like, this is what it's gonna be like.
And one of the things that, that we heard a lot was like, it's just another 2000 meters. It's just another, you've done this in training loads. It's just this, it's just that. And it's like, like when I was sat on the start line, you literally, uh, you know, if I, so I'm sat here looking at the start line. If I go like that, you've got the Christ of Redeemers statue, which is there, and there's [00:27:00] people sat behind the start line there.
There's like a road that runs behind it and there's like crowds of people behind it. And you don't get that anywhere else. No.
Callum: Millions of people watching around the world
John Collins: essentially
Callum: as well.
John Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it. If you can't, if you try and insulate yourself, if you try and pretend it's something else, like I would, and that's what we did.
We tried to pretend it was something else, and it's just like, no, this is something entirely different. Um, but yeah, like there was, so the hill that Christ, the Redeemer was on, um, there was something to do with like, the way the air would move over the top of it and then roll down the hill and not across the lake.
Callum: Right.
John Collins: It was a big lake. So, uh, it meant that you had these big rolling waves and in we raced the heat, um, and we, it, one of the waves actually picked our boat up and moved us across a lane.
Callum: Wow.
John Collins: It, uh, so we had to like move row back into our lane and carry on. And at one point, like my doubles partner like wanted to stop because it, we, it was like we were gonna fall in.
Really? And it was like, to have to say, keep [00:28:00] going in the heat of the Olympics seemed so surreal. It was like, what? Like, and, and obviously, you know, you're such finely tuned performers. We've been doing all this training stuff where we're at like. Like operating like well over world record pace, and then all of a sudden you're like wondering if you're gonna stay upright.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Uh, at the Olympics. At the Olympics.
Callum: That's bad, isn't it?
John Collins: And so that, like, that caused a load of problems, especially with the, um, the progression of the racing. So we ended up in like what we call a semi of death in, um, in that regatta because, um, where people had done such wild results in the, uh, in the heat, it meant that all the, like, most of the talent was stacked into one semifinal.
Right. I know. Um, so then we, we had like a huge job there, but like, that's like, I mean, and we made the final, but it was like, it took literally the, probably one of the best races my whole career to do that. Amazing. Um, which was really good, uh, but also like [00:29:00] somewhat traumatic.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, but yeah, it was.
Final Aftermath Reset
---
Callum: How, like, I guess I don't wanna skip too much ahead, but how did it feel like, what were your emotions when that was done? Like the finals done? Because you guys came sixth, right? In the final
John Collins: fifth? Fifth in the final
Callum: fifth in the final.
Semi Final Gamble and Aftermath
---
John Collins: That was, so that was a weird one because, so in the semi we had, um, we had the Kovich brothers who are still to this day, the best double ever.
They're Croatian.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: We had the Kiwis who'd won gold at the World Cup. So the World Cup where we'd won our first medal, we won a silver medal. The Kiwis had beaten us.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: We had a guy called Olaf Tur, uh, and Kettle Watch who had Norwegian and they, Olaf was a double Olympic champion in the single, which is like one of the toughest events.
And um, and then you had the Aussies who had like a world silver medal. Um, you had the Bulgarians who'd knocked us out of two championship a [00:30:00] finals, which trying to think if there was definitely someone, uh, no, that's it. Um, and so you
Callum: are up against
John Collins: Yeah, we're up against it. This is the
Callum: semi, sorry.
John Collins: This is the semi, yeah.
And, um, before the semi our coach, no, I forgot about this actually. So I, I was taking the blades down, the alls down, we call 'em blades. And um, I stepped over this like concrete bit and into a hole and rolled my ankle before and I remember like not wondering if I could even walk on it, um, let I row and then it kind of went away.
But then for the whole second week of the Olympics, my foot was in absolute agony. But, um, anyway, yeah, so we, our coach as well in the briefing is, this is Mark is, uh, he's from, I think it's Warrington. Um, so there's this like gruff Northerner and in the briefing he was like, guys, if you want to get a result you've never got before, you're gonna have to do something you've never done before.
And you're like, obviously every sports textbook will tell you that you make a plan. Well, you do not [00:31:00] change the plan at the last moment. And so he is gone. Right? Guys, what we're gonna do is we're gonna do our last 500 in the third 500. And so it is like, we're gonna basically, you're gonna go
Callum: balls out
John Collins: sooner, halfway.
Yeah. And you're like, are you fucking mad? And then, but actually a part of you goes, you know what, like, yeah. Sort.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and we had a false start at the start of the race and then got called back to the start and then did the race and like, executed it to absolute perfection. Um, made the final and it was amazing.
So obviously at that point, especially compared to the other semi-final, we were a faster semi-final as well. Uh, so you, we were like, we're gonna win a medal, we're gonna do it like we do this exactly what we did there. We're gonna win a medal.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and then the final, basically with the final, it was a raging headwind.
So very slow race, right. And everything we needed to be good at. To get through a race like that was [00:32:00] exactly what we wanted, what
Callum: we, we didn't need.
John Collins: Yeah. Which is obviously, that's the nature of the beast. Yeah.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Bug got,
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: Um, but that was obviously very anti climactic
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Compared to what we'd just done two days earlier.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, so it was a bit of a cliff to fall off, I'd say. Yeah. Um, like the training leading up to that point had been like absolutely immaculate. After winning the medal, we'd been like, the best way I can describe it is we'd been like running up the side of this mountain and the other side of the final was just like a cliff and we ran off the edge of it.
Yeah. Yeah. And that it was, it was very hard. Like it was, you know, like the second week was like an emo, an emotional rollercoaster as well. 'cause we then watched like my misses, I watched my misses win a, a med, a silver medal.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: I watched all of my mates who were like, obviously, you know, you're obviously very happy for them, but equally you can compare yourself to these guys every day.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: And a whole bunch of those guys became Olympic champions. And you're like, you saw your opportunity and it missed it, and you're like, [00:33:00] shit. Um, so it was, it was, it was an amazing time, but a, a big emotional rollercoaster after that. And yeah, like the, I'd say until the following Christmas. So you like, you've got to from then until Christmas basically, I was like all over the shop.
Callum: I can imagine, mate.
John Collins: Yeah. Um, so yeah, it, it is tough, but I, I, I think that's, that's a price you just have to pay. Like, there's no, no way around unless you just don't want to get that invested in it. You, you have to pay that price.
Going Again for Tokyo
---
Callum: We, we'll get onto it and shortly, but us. 'cause you sort of mentioned then, you know, the, I think you mentioned before we even filmed, you know, the after post.
Was there ever a point where you're like, that's it, I'm gonna put a foot line under that now and move on? Or did you quite quickly think I want to go again for the next cycle or,
John Collins: um, so I remember coming off the water and, uh, Jurgen, the chief coach met us as we came. Honestly, I, I had this kind of like daydream about it.
If he had said to us Right tomorrow, [00:34:00] go to the gym at the village start training, I would've said yes to that.
Callum: Really?
John Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Like I was like, at that point I was like, no, I need to fix this. Um, and yeah, to be fair, like it was good. I didn't do that, but um, I would've done. Yeah. Like I knew straight away I was like, I'm,
Callum: I'm going again.
John Collins: Yeah. And I, to be fair, I'd from my, I would've probably, if I could have done, I would've just carried on going indefinitely anyway. So it's just one of those things, the lifestyle of that just made sense to me. So I like it. It was more hard. It's for me, I found it harder not to do.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Would've found it harder not to do that.
Tokyo Cycle Lessons
---
Callum: Well on that, like just bridging, I guess without sort of missing out on too much obvious, obviously you then made it to Tokyo. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah. Tell me a us a little bit about that experience and then, you know, we'll go from there, I guess, but like,
Tokyo Cycle Lessons and Medals
---
John Collins: well, I guess, I guess, um. The main thing was that, so my big learning from Rio [00:35:00] was that there'd been, you know, we do so much training that there'd been a lot of occasions, and you kind of realize that, you know, like I had, it was a seven minute final, so it's like a minute long than it should have been.
Mm-hmm. Um, had the whole seven minutes to think about like, all the things I could have done. Mm-hmm. All the opportunities I'd missed in training to be better than I had been before. Um, and I just made it, my, my, my big change was that every session I did, I had to get something from it. And even, and I know that sounds quite like, well, yeah, obviously, but like there are times where you can do a good training session and just be like, did I what?
Like when you actually look at it, you're like, where am I better after that? And it would just be like, look, if I, if I was tired, I couldn't really pull hard. Did I fix something? Technically? Did I improve? Physically did I did my, I was, was my mindset good for the whole session? You know, anything. [00:36:00] And I, you know, I went from, you know, in the Rio Olympiad, I won one international medal and in the Tokyo Olympiad, I think it was, uh, nine medals.
Callum: Oh, sick. So you were really coming into your
John Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, we, uh, me and Johnny, uh, so Johnny was my doubles partner, so John and Johnny. Um, we got moved into the quad with a couple of guys who'd been in the quad in Rio. And we were part of this like awesome project, which probably my favorite year of Romes.
The year after that we did, we won the World Cup series, got, um, a bunch of medals through that in the final of the world, champs that year. Pete, the stroke man, uh, we were warming up for the final and his back blew up. Which is like, I mean, I can talk about typical
Callum: rowers.
John Collins: Yeah. Um, which is an equal measure.
Even to this day, it's like so frustrating. 'cause I'd say like, had we, this
Silver at Worlds
---
Callum: the World Cup? Sorry, did you say?
John Collins: No, this is the world championship. Sorry. World champ. [00:37:00] The big one of the year.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah.
Silver at Worlds
---
John Collins: I feel like at that point, that was the closest I ever came to being a world champion. And I feel like we, we got
Callum: silver didn you.
John Collins: Yeah. We were good enough to be world champions without a doubt. Like I, even now, I could tell if you were to ask me exactly what I had to do in that race to, to win it, I know, I still know it now. Like I know the race plan, I know exactly what I was doing every marker and it, that was nearly 10 years ago.
And I still, like, my muscle memory of that is still like right there.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, but, and, but I, yeah.
Post Medal Turbulence
---
Turbulent Boat Changes
---
John Collins: So then the, we had a co, a turbulent, turbulent couple of years afterwards because where Pete needed surgery to fix his hips, which had caused his back. It was like. You know, they've moved into another quad, which went, we, we moved into another quad, which didn't go very well.
Uh, we won a World Cup series, but it was like one of these boats where we'd either win gold or we wouldn't even make the final.
Callum: Right. Got you. Yeah.
New Double Partnership
---
John Collins: Um, and then I, and then the year after that, they prioritized the double as the top boat. So I went, then went into the double [00:38:00] with, um, a guy called Graham Thomas.
So Johnny was then in the quad and I was in the double with Graham. So that was a whole new dynamic. Mm. And that was really good. Graham was a very, very different athlete to Johnny, like way more talented. Uh, and, uh, we went, maybe weren't as cohesive, but he was like roaming someone as like ridiculous as him, was like, brilliant.
Damo: Mm.
John Collins: And we won a couple of medals together in the double and we're kind of like it going into Tokyo. It was like, it wasn't. It wasn't, would we make a final, would we be a med, get a medal? It was, we are going there to win a medal.
Tokyo Prep Chaos
---
Tokyo Prep Chaos
---
John Collins: Um, and there was a lot of, um, logistical, you know, mistakes made going into that because of the COVID regulations.
Right,
Callum: okay.
John Collins: We did our training camps back to front. So we did our work camp after we'd gone to, [00:39:00] um, uh, after we'd gone to Italy for a bit to do speed work, which is not normally how we do it. We'd, we went to Tokyo quite far in advance, but couldn't row for like a week. So did like a week on the rowing machines in 40 degree heat.
So we were all quite cooked. Um, we then managed to get out rowing, but not very much. And it was like things were just not, you know, normally when you go into an Olympics, you are like. Like, me and Johnny used to like end up play fighting all the time because we were so energetic. Whereas it just didn't feel like that.
Everything just felt a bit weird. And so the team as a whole underperformed and it was a bit like, there was so many fourth places. We, I, I always say that if, if every British boat had been one boat length faster, it would've been our best ever Olympics. If every, um, like if every Yeah. I mean, but it wasn't basically, um,
Callum: such fine margins, isn't it?
Yeah. Things that can [00:40:00] go wrong or, or slightly different, like you say. Yeah. Yeah. These,
Final Sprint and Luck
---
Tokyo Final Fine Margins
---
John Collins: and we were like, you know, that was, that was tough in a different way because, you know, with like a hundred meters to go in the final, I like looked to my left and I could see the Chinese double and they were literally right there and they were in the bronze medal position.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: But we just couldn't get 'em, basically. Um, and we put our fastest race we'd ever put together in the, for the final. And it just wasn't quite good enough, uh, for obviously, like how much of that was, these external factors is no one will ever really know.
Callum: No.
John Collins: Um, but that, again, like one thing I definitely realized is that you need to be lucky as well.
Like no matter how good you are, you will certain need to be lucky 'cause things like that will go against you. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do about it.
Callum: So do you know, like, um, it's funny isn't it? 'cause uh, obviously for you, I'm sure, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but you, you, I'm sure you have moments when you are looking and you go, you came this close to medal.
But again, just [00:41:00] my brother-in-law, he was um, he was a really quick sprint canoeist, and then he was like the standout kind of whatever. And then one Olympics, he was injured just before when he was like a s shoe in. And then the next Olympics, his distance was cut, you know, it's just then all of a sudden that's his eight year window.
And it was kind of like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just like. You, there's so many things that just like you say, these little twists of f or whatever, but, and then like, so for you, John, after Tokyo, how, how long post Tokyo until you ended up, uh, retiring or how did that kind of, you know, come about that process?
I guess?
Chasing Paris After Tokyo
---
Post Tokyo Struggles
---
John Collins: So I did, um, I, I went back to rowing. Uh, you know, I, I tried to do Paris, like I did like basically a whole other Olympia, a whole
Callum: other, yeah,
John Collins: yeah, yeah. But that Olympiad did not go well. Um, so I did, I mentioned this to you before we started chatting here. I did the, the Metro Marathon Challenge. [00:42:00] Yes, I did.
I ran to summarize that very briefly, I ran 348 miles, um, in the, that sort of September, october time.
Callum: I didn't realize you did it in between those two in, uh, up post, uh, Tokyo.
John Collins: Sorry.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. And um, I then went back to training like. Less than a month later.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: And I, I, I think I underestimated how, like, ruined my body was from that.
Mm-hmm. Like my, my feet were still a shoe size bigger, uh, from how bad he swollen they were. And so I, I basically went into that Olympiad on the back foot and there was a, I, I struggled physically, so my, my numbers on the rowing machine just weren't quite what they'd been. Now I have like theories as to why that was.
Um, like the, the way the team worked had changed slightly. We did a lot less internal racing than we had done. And I think I was quite lucky that I was generally a very robust athlete. I needed a lot of hard work to [00:43:00] go fast. Mm. Um, and that we seem to lose some of that. Mm-hmm. So I was not quite firing the way I had done.
Coaching Conflict and Mindset
---
John Collins: Um, but equally I do feel like I, I wasn't treated very well either. Like I, I felt like I'd been quite difficult leading into Tokyo. With the coaches. Um, I, I, if I'm being very brutal about it, I wasn't a big fan of our coach. Um, and I, I felt like he was somewhat underqualified for the role, and I struggled with that a lot.
Mm-hmm. Because I was on a mi I had a very brutal mindset going into that because of obviously the way I'd been after Rio. You know, I was, I, there was, you know, I was a massive tw basically. Um, you know, I just would, I would've like,
Callum: there's a lot at stake.
John Collins: If it was like, stab this bloke and you can get a medal at the Olympics, I'd be like, gimme, gimme that knife.
You know? It was like, it was very much, I was very like that. And, um, I didn't treat [00:44:00] people around me very well. I was, if someone was in my way, I was like, I'd let them know. And, um, I think I was, then when I came back, I was viewed as someone who was a little bit, uh, of a problem, uh, which is probably was a, probably a reasonably well earned reputation.
Um. But I think it meant I got sidelined a little bit. Um, and even though I felt like my performances were picking back up, um, it was because my scores in the rowing machine weren't as good. It was very easy for me to be put to one side. Yeah.
Paris Qualification Falls Apart
---
John Collins: And, um, I had a rough couple of years with, uh, I had a, a good doubles partner pop up, a new guy called Seb.
And he, but he had real problems with his back and his back blew up and he needed surgery. And then I was given another doubles, another doubles partner, and that didn't go very well at all. Uh, so we didn't get the boat qualified for Paris. So then when Seb came back, [00:45:00] it was like, can we get it read up and running in time?
And we, we just didn't have enough time to really redo it. Time,
Callum: let's get it going.
Retiring and New Start
---
John Collins: Um, and so, yeah, in 2024, um, yeah, it was, I, I was faced with, with the reality that like, okay, so the doubles project is now over. And my option at that point was basically be, be a spare, but because the Sculling team, which is You've got two walls each.
Yeah. Uh, because the Sculling team was only had one boat qualified. Um, the, we wouldn't even be sent as spares. We'd, we wouldn't get kit. It would be like, you'd, you'd train up until the championship and then stay at home.
Callum: Right.
John Collins: And I was like, uh, like obviously I'd be in two Olympic finals. Yeah. You know, I'm like, I'm not doing that.
Callum: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Retirement and First Jiu Jitsu Class
---
John Collins: So it was June the third I went in. So we had, um, I raced Lucerne as a spare, so I did the, the Lucer World Cup. 'cause we do that every year. Mm-hmm. I raced the sub in as a [00:46:00] quad into the quad. We came forth, which was, we were like literally just off a medal as well. Um, we then got a few days off and when I came back on the Monday, I just went in and was like, I'm done.
And then literally, I, so I, I got home at. 9:00 AM having told 'em I was done and then made the lunchtime class over there. And that was my first, first class
Callum: I remember. It makes, I think I, I think I ran it.
John Collins: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I think you did.
Callum: It definitely was your, one of your first ones. I do remember that, but Well, that's interesting.
I'm glad, like you obviously had heard about Jiujitsu.
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: Yeah. But, um, I'm glad that you made that re realization that you Yeah, because, 'cause just anecdotally as well, uh, again, I keep referring to the same things, but it's two, two things that I've, from my experience that I've seen, and one was when my brother-in-law retired, so he retired post London.
He didn't go to London, but he retired. So he was, he raced in, [00:47:00] uh, he was a, uh, K one, 200 meter sprint. Mm-hmm. Um, and he, his PB for that year was like, um, he was like, I would've made the final at the Olympics, but there was only one boat. Per whatever. And his best friend, uh, ed McKeever was quicker than my brother-in-law Ed and Ed McKeever went and won gold in London.
Yeah. So he was like those emotions of unbelievably happy for his friend, but never made the Olympics, et cetera. But anyway, when he got, um, when it was he, him where he was told it's time, you know, I can, I couldn't believe it. It was just a handshake off your pop.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Um, and, uh, I can't remember which came first actually, but also there's a judo player called, um, he very sadly took his own life, uh, called Craig Fallon and Craig, um, he took his life when I was at British Judo and I'd met him a few times and he was, um, he was only 36, but he was Britain's like, he's only the third ever Brit to be a world champion in [00:48:00] judo.
And he was like golden child guy. And he, he went to, I'm gonna do a, a disservice here, but he went to at least one game. He went to Beijing, I believe. As the favorite for at least the medal. But, you know, sports Burrito, wasn't it? And, but same thing, I think it was, uh, he just struggled hugely with exiting being a professional athlete.
And my brother-in-law, he handshake off you go. But he also then at the same time, my sister was pregnant, he hadn't done anything alongside canoeing. Uh, he took up, he became a lorry driver, but I could, you know, you look back and go, I can't think of anything about the, the lifestyle change. He was sat down all day, you know, and, but, so I'm glad you did that, but was that something you were conscious of?
Do you know what I mean? Or like
John Collins: what, as in head,
Callum: I, as in I have to take something else up instantly or I dunno where your head was at, you know?
Why Combat Sports
---
Why Jiujitsu Hooked
---
John Collins: Yeah, I, I, I, um, I mean I'd always wanted to do
Callum: jiujitsu,
John Collins: uh, well a combat sport of any sort. But it, I jiujitsu seemed the most sensible option 'cause I didn't fancy getting kicked in the head.
Um, [00:49:00] what I, I, I'd always been interested in combat sports anyway. Um. You know, I, I sort of, when I was sort of what it be, 16, 17, I used to watch, uh, I had a friend called James at school and we used to, um, he had a bunch of DVDs from Pride.
Callum: Yeah, yeah.
John Collins: We used to watch like Merko Crow Cop and Fedor, and
Callum: kicking people
John Collins: into oblivious.
It was like, and like, I can't pretend I knew much about it, but I used to watch that and just think that looks awesome.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And, um, I, you know, my dad educated me properly on like the sort of Muhammad Ali era of boxing and, um, you know, so I, the, the one thing I always found fascinating, especially when I became like a more successful athlete, was the mentality of combat sports.
Especially around, like, you have these guys at face offs and things like that, and they both seem so confident and they both seem so convinced that they, that they're going to, you know, and their willingness to say, I'm, I'm gonna smash [00:50:00] you.
Damo: Yeah.
John Collins: And, um, the. I always found that really funny because in row row's so polite, like when you race these people, you, you are definitely trying to smash someone else, but there you're like, you're, you're like best mates away from it and you're like very polite and it'd be like, oh, you guys are, you guys look really good out there, blah, blah, blah.
You know? It was never any, it was like the complete opposite. And so I was always like, fascinated by these people that could do this and, and then, you know, one of them's gonna get like, potentially not humiliated because egg
Callum: on your face a bit for the way,
John Collins: yeah, yeah. It is, it is the most harsh way of losing, isn't it?
Especially if you get loose badly. Like it's, uh, I always think of Jose Aldo, like, he was such a legend and the way he kind of, that streak ended was like, so brutal.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And you're like, that must be horrific.
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um, so yeah, I, I was like, I kept up with a little bit with the UFC and then was like, that's what I want to do.
Yeah. I want, I want, I wanted to be an office at something. I wanted something where I could have like, 'cause I, I. [00:51:00] I probably got maybe 2% quicker from the, when I first joined the team to Tokyo, I probably got maybe 2% quicker.
Callum: No way.
John Collins: Uh, and I wanted something where I could go back to doing that, like every week.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um,
Callum: that's interesting you say that. 'cause I was wondering that, um, it must be all these hours that you're on the rowing machine or on the lake or whatever, and it's the same, I, I believe, not as someone who does it, but same as like people who get to like a certain level in lifting. It's like you are working so hard for these tiny, minuscule little, uh, yeah.
So if you'd come to Juujitsu, it must have been quite strange.
John Collins: Yeah. And, and also, so it was, it was Kay. You know, um, Mathis is wife.
Callum: Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
John Collins: So she was my first ever round of sparring and she messed me up and actually like. At that point. 'cause I'd, I'd, I think it was, I'd done the drills with Paul.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: It was open guard passing.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And
Callum: I think I remember this
John Collins: and I'd done the drills with Paul and he'd made me feel so [00:52:00] good at it.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And then Kay walked over to me, it was like, oh, okay, you go John. And she walked over to me and obviously she's quite a lot smaller than me.
Callum: Yeah,
John Collins: yeah, yeah. And I was quite nervous 'cause I was like, if I do something wrong, I could really hurt further.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. So then obviously to be folded up like a deck chair, I was like, I was like, oh. And actually I was like, awesome. Yeah. I'm rubbish at this. This is gonna be, this is gonna be great. So that almost sold it to me.
Callum: Yeah. Nice mate. Yeah. You go one way or the other, don't you with it. Yeah. It's like, um, hopefully you take it the right way.
You're like, I need to learn more of it or whatever. But, um, well, yeah. And now you've been, I mean, you've been training over two years now Haven Yeah. You've been in it, in it for a, for a good while.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: What would you say are the silly question, I guess, but the most. Obvious sort of differences, um, that you've noticed?
Rowing Versus Jiu Jitsu
---
Unpredictability and Strategy
---
John Collins: Um, it's actually something I find very difficult is how unpredictable it is.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Um, like I, the thing with rowing is you, you are perfecting one movement. I mean, obviously that movement could be broken down into other movements. Yeah. But [00:53:00] it's essentially like a, it's like you, you, let's say you're working on like, okay, I'm going from mount to arm bar, and that's basically the rowing stroke.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah. Go
John Collins: ahead. And it's like, you'll, you'll get that, so you'll nail that again and again and again. But with Juujitsu, there's so much variation that perfecting anything is almost like, feels almost impossible. Um, so then yeah. The unpredictability of it is, is, is wild. Mm-hmm. Um, especially from a competition perspective.
And I've been having this conversation with guys like Mikey and Chris about like, how do you make it more predictable? Like, is there, you know, especially when at competition, you know, you both start on the feet or like, what can you do from that point to almost increase your chances of it being predictable?
Um, but it's just, I don't think it's possible.
Callum: It's a really interesting way of looking at it though. I'd never really thought of it like that,
John Collins: but because my performance was [00:54:00] essentially irrelevant, uh, sorry, the, the, the opposition I raced was almost irrelevant to me. Yeah,
Callum: of course. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause
John Collins: if you lined us up side by side or you put us one after the other, if we did our best race, we should in theory get the same result.
Whereas obviously when you are against someone who's trying to counteract everything you do, um,
Callum: well actually interesting on that point then, so if you were in a race, would you, would you be aware of like. Or would you change your game plan ever? Like if you saw like say a boat go flying out the traps, and you're like, what are they doing?
Mm-hmm. Would it, you know, because in Juujitsu you're right. You could start something and go, right, I wanna try and pull guard, let's say, and then they pull guard and you're like, right, well, that's out the window. I'm gonna try and pass this way. And you're like, oh, he's not letting me doing something else.
Well, that's out the window. But did you ever, you know, you could, um, but you wouldn't really,
John Collins: you don't really see much of that. No. Like, um, because generally speaking, especially you, you do get an idea of like form as well.
Callum: Mm-hmm. [00:55:00]
John Collins: Um, let's say you have like a, an awesome guard puller and they decide to stay on their feet, and you're like, what are you doing?
Yeah. Yeah. You prob you'd probably go like, yeah, you're not supposed to be doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd be like, fine, we'll stay up. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it was kind of the same thing in that respect. Like, you have people where you're like, we had it one year where the, uh, the kiwis as a, as a team generally are quite slow starters.
Callum: Right.
John Collins: And then very strong in the latter stages of a race. Um, we raced this one Kiwi double that just blasted off and it was like, see you in a bit.
Callum: See you in a bit.
John Collins: Um, and but yeah, like it if you, if you let other people dictate your performance Yeah. You're not gonna do your fastest performance.
Callum: That makes sense.
John Collins: Um, but I used to, I used to be quite good at reading what was going on with other people.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: I'd say that was one of my strengths was being able to kind of glance across in a race and I'd almost like absorb the fact that, um, the [00:56:00] one that comes to mind is actually that there was a Dutch, we raced this Dutch double, uh, quite a lot in the build up to Tokyo.
And I remember in one of the races looking over and the guy Stefan, who was an absolute monster, I could see his like teeth. Normally he had quite a deadpan face.
Callum: Ah,
John Collins: and they were in front of us, but I could see his teeth and I remember being like, he's holding a fart He's blowing. He's dying. He's he dying.
And actually we got, we nipped through them on the line. Amazing. And I was like, ah. And it was things like that. Yeah. You do get a lot of motivation from that. And sometimes you'll look across and you'll be like, I'm pretty sure they're gassed.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And you'd be like, hold on, we might get through this.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and not that you kind of need that much motivation, but it's there if you want it, you know what I mean?
Callum: It's funny with that mentality. Um, so just, I remember, I think it was a, him referencing specifically when, uh, Roger for Bicher. Um, but he, I've heard him talk about it in general. 'cause I, I say of him, the thing that I [00:57:00] think is the most amazing thing about him when you look at his career is his mental, mental like fortitude.
And, and I think he just absolutely blasted people away with his. Demeanor and his confidence, let alone his abilities. But
John Collins: is this Roger? Sorry. Yeah.
Callum: Yeah. And I think if you watch the match back, if you see him fight Boesche, he, that was it. He narrated it for a website. And if you, if you've not seen that, the start of the match, it's quite a weird pace to it.
But BHA chases a single leg a few times.
John Collins: Mm-hmm.
Callum: And, um, if you watch it, I remember Roger saying, he was like, I defended the first one. And he was like, and he was like, at that point I, like, I knew, he says, I'm, I'm good here, that I've got him. Because he said he, he chased one. And he said, right, I can defend it because Bache is like a wicked blast.
Double. Mm-hmm. Defended one. Then he defended another and he was like, if you're watching the video, we were watching it. He was like, right, you can see here. It says, I go, it went outta bounds. And he said, I walked straight back to the middle, middle as quick as possible time about him waiting. [00:58:00] And I was like, I could see in my peripheral that he was slow off the mat or my, and he was like, at that point I, you're going, yeah.
And I was like, I don't know. And for me, I was just like, okay. That's quite interesting to hear. But sounds similar, right? To like the
John Collins: Yeah, there's a photo of, um, Daley Thompson. Do you know David Thompson?
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: It was just after he'd won the, um, is it the decathlon? Yeah, it
Callum: was,
John Collins: uh,
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: And he knew he was gonna do the next Olympics.
And you see it was the, I think it was the 10 k it finished with, and you see all of his, the everyone he raced is like laying on the floor after the 10 K. And he's the only one standing. And afterwards someone asked him about that and he was like, yeah, it's 'cause I knew I was coming back. I wanted them to know.
Callum: Really? I
John Collins: love that.
Callum: That's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. That's so cool.
Life After Sport Identity
---
Callum: Well, you like, um, just wanted to touch on it as well, that the reason I kind of was so, so cool that you just picked up another sport so quickly is because the men, you know, the mental health part of, of it all, and for you even, even with doing juujitsu.
Was it, how was that transition from being like professional athlete? Is it your whole identity, I guess, in [00:59:00] so many ways, right?
John Collins: Mm-hmm.
Callum: Um, it, yeah. It must have been difficult on some level, you know?
John Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ob yeah, definitely.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, but equally I think I, I knew what was coming anyway, so I had, um, and I, you know, kind of had things in place to help that transition.
Mm-hmm. You know, like obviously I had coming here like as I had a couple of months before I started my job
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Uh, coaching. And so I essentially was a full-time jujitsu actually, like straight out of the gate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was, I think I was doing like five, four classes a week.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And, um, I was also like lifting weights and stuff like that, so I was like still training full time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in a sport I was completely new to. Yeah. Um, and that, that helped me a lot. Like, it was, it, you know, I wasn't sat at home in a quiet living room, just like,
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: What now?
Callum: Washing paint. Yeah.
John Collins: I was, you know, I was busy and um, and then I started coaching and you kind of get your, with that, I kind [01:00:00] of, I, the, the Rowan Club I coach at is, you know, I, I was basically building something from scratch and it's a very kind of, I dunno if they'd mind me saying this, but it's a very kind of like low standard Rowan club.
They don't win like Henley every year and stuff like that. Um, you know, that that's what they're aspiring towards. Yeah. But they're not, they're definitely a long way from that. So then when I turned up, there was a lot of people there that were, um, especially the captain who had, had hired me. He was this like quite funny bloke who'd lived in America for a bit.
Uh, so he was very loud and he would always, he always called me GB John. And, um, he like stroke my ego all the time and it, so it made me feel quite good about myself at a time where I kind of needed that.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: On top of the fact I was like training a lot doing this. So. You
Callum: diverted your focus really well.
John Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I was kind of, I made sure I just had lot, lots to do all the time. Yeah. Um, and that, yeah. Like I didn't spend very much time at all just sat around thinking about things.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah.
John Collins: And every now and then I would, I'd [01:01:00] catch myself. Um, I think the thing I miss the most is not the rowing.
Like I rowing was just like a vessel for me to try and win something. Like, kind of like I said at the start, like the only reason I did it was because someone told me I was good at it. And it just became the thing, the thing that I could try and win the Olympics at. You know, it's like, could I be the best in the world at anything?
Well, that was the thing I was closest to being the best in the world at. Um, and that's all I really cared about. But the bit I missed was the like, sort of camaraderie and, uh, like training with the boys. And, uh, certain sessions, like the 30 minute session was, you'd be in this room of everyone. Kind of just absolutely flogging themselves with like the most horrific music playing like so loud.
Mm-hmm. Um, there'd be a lot of shouting. There'd be a lot of, like, we used to do this thing where you'd, 'cause on a rowing machine you've got the chain that attaches to the handle. And if you, when you get to the finish of a stroke, if you flick your [01:02:00] wrists, um, it sends like a ripple down the chain and it whips the machine and makes this like really, really loud.
It's like a gunshot. And when you're like in the mood music's pumping all this sort of stuff, every now and then someone would do that and it just like gets everyone super GED
up.
Callum: Gets them up. Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and I, I, that's the sort of stuff I miss. Not, um, like the, the rowing is what it is. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I do miss the, the sort of buzz of competition, um, you know, the, the start line that you realize that the start line nerves that you dread when you're doing it is the very thing that you miss when you stop.
Because that's the bit that like, you know, you sort of feel quite alive. You get that much broader emotional spectrum when you do stuff like that. Whereas like real life is a lot like flatter than that. Yes.
Callum: Yeah,
John Collins: yeah, yeah. You don't get the highs and the lows to the same level.
Callum: Yeah. That's really, really interesting.
Competition Nerves and Pressure
---
Competition Nerves Mindset
---
Callum: Well, on that as well, like how did it compare, uh, going to your first Juujitsu tournament? Because I, I, I remember you when [01:03:00] I spoke to you, it was, uh, yeah, well, you go on. I don't wanna say it, but Yeah. But like, how did you find it? Like, and how, you know, how did it differ? I guess?
John Collins: I, I was terrified. Like, like it was funny 'cause everyone was like, oh, you like, it's just like, it's like some random judo hall in High Wickham.
Everyone was like, oh, you're gonna do great, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, absolutely shitting my pants.
Callum: Well, that's worse when people say that. Isn't it? Like, but
John Collins: I, yeah, it wasn't even that. It was like, uh, yeah, I, I dunno, I especially, 'cause obviously I'd been quite warmly welcomed and all that sort of stuff, and maybe there was an expectation, but I, again, it was more just like.
I wanted to do the, my self justice and plus the fact it is that bit more unpredictable.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: I just didn't know what, I didn't know who I was facing. I didn't know, like obviously it was white belt, so I didn't really know what I was doing anyway. Yeah. But it was like take down, like start, you start on your feet, like what, what would you do?
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and it was exactly how you'd expect, we basically like grabbed hold of each other with a Vulcan death grip and then [01:04:00] spun around in like some sort of ballroom dance for a bit till one of us got tired and fell over, um,
Callum: the white belt dance.
John Collins: Yeah,
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: Um, but yeah, no, it was like, I, I did enjoy it, but it was like.
I was kind of a bit shocked, shell-shocked afterwards at how like scared I'd actually been of it.
Callum: Yeah. It's very, very different isn't it? And but you are, it is funny with that 'cause I've seen, um, I used to have a magazine and I, even though I don't like competing, I have competed every belt more than what, but I've been at a lot of competitions because I used to sell my magazine at competitions or I'd be there covering the competitions and, um, because of that, I know this sounds ridiculous.
I think this is why I've got a bit of a weird relationship with competing. 'cause when I was a white belt on a blue belt, um, I was told like, oh, you, you're gonna win, smash everyone. You know, like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, and that like in there is so different than in the gym is so different than, so I had that and I took that terribly.
I was like, well, I don't want [01:05:00] any pressure. Then I stopped competing for a bit and then I was like the magazine guy. So when I would compete, I knew everyone, but I could tell everyone was kinda like, oh, let's see how the guy who's got the magazine get, do you know what I mean? Gets on And it, and I built all this pressure up on myself, but I've seen it with, um, so many former professional athletes who've come and done jujitsu luck in London.
There's been plenty, actually. There's a guy called Drew Sullivan who, um, was, he's Great Britain still I think most cap basketball player, right? And post London, he competed and he was just like, oh my God, that was so like, you know, and it's, uh, it is just putting that different hat on, I guess. And that I,
John Collins: I do think, I do think that you'll see most professional athletes will, they're, they're not, not nervous, if that makes sense.
It's not like people who, like, they're not good at competing. They're not like, they're not immune to that sort of stuff. I think actually what makes professional athletes good at what they do is that. If they do well despite that
Callum: Yes.
John Collins: Not because of, you know, they're not, they're not immune to that. [01:06:00] Yeah.
Um, like most, you can't really be good at something without being terrified of being beaten.
Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. Um, you know, you, it has to mean a lot to you. You have to be willing to take some losses, like, especially on the training pitch. Yeah. But like, um, you can't, yeah. You can't be that good. You can't sell your soul that way unless you're really scared of losing.
Yeah.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah.
John Collins: Um, and, but it's like, like going back to that rear race I was talking about, it was like, I literally couldn't speak before that race. I couldn't, I normally, I used to talk to Johnny before the race and just run through the race plan. I couldn't do it before that race because I was too, I literally was gonna burst into tears.
Yeah. Um, and as soon as the buzzer went though, it was like, I, I remember exactly what I needed to do. Yeah. And all of a sudden it was like, I'm just doing the thing. And, and it's that ability to. Remember what's gonna give you the result at the point of maximal stress, which 'cause, 'cause that's obviously, you start thinking about all sorts of stuff when you are properly
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Stressed out. Um,
Callum: there's a Chris Eubank [01:07:00] quote, isn't there? I think he was saying, talking about boxing. I think my, I think, uh, I think, um, Mike Tyson said something similar, but Chris Eubank, someone was asking about anxiety before boxing. He was like saying, I was, it's petrified, it's terrifying. Someone's trying to, he says the buildup to the fight, walking down to the ring, he says, I'm, I'm so anxious.
But you, he was like, as soon as the bell goes, it's peace. He is like, and I think his, his thing was peace at last. 'cause it's just like, it's just gonna happen now and whatever, and Yeah. And you, you get, uh, you get whatever with it. But, um, I always take my half too, like, um, and, uh, Evelyn, um, yeah, um, Shera Powell, just for someone who's, you know, she's literally like 10 time world champion and, you know, and the same with like Fon who, uh, Fon Davis, who I, I know Fon quite well and.
They, they've, they're been so successful and so dominant for such a long time that you, even though they're lovely people, you can tell people just wanna see them lose. Yes. Not for any reason other than just, we just wanna change, you know? And, um, to still keep [01:08:00] going, you know, and, and, and stuff through those situations must be, you know,
John Collins: I think that, that, that's definitely something that gets harder.
You, you know, the longer you definitely, when I was in the team, the thing I was most nervous about was when we used to have trials and you'd, they'd invite people in from outside of the team. Mm-hmm. Or
Callum: it is a window Right. Where like
John Collins: something
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And I wasn't scared about racing my teammates. It was like, I, I race them every day.
It's like, what? That would be what it would be.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, it was the guys from outside that like that, you know, they were like, they're here to take a scout. Just make sure it's not yours.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. Um, and I think that fueled me a lot. Like I was, I spent a lot of time being scared of people. Mm-hmm. And that, that, you know.
You can never be complacent because of that. No. If it is very easy. There are some guys who do get complacent, but they don't last long as that, as a result.
Callum: Yeah. Got you.
Fatherhood and Training Balance
---
Fatherhood and Training Balance
---
Callum: Well, mate, last couple of bit, I don't wanna keep you for too long, but the o the last thing I wanted to touch on with you really was, um, you've not long become a father as well.
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: Congratulations.
John Collins: Nearly five months.
Callum: Five months old.
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: Dema and I [01:09:00] have children, so we appreciate that. Mm-hmm. So that's another massive seismic change for you and obviously your girlfriend or wife now. Um, so how has that been thrown into the mix? 'cause you see, I mean, perception of you John, like you just seem to take everything like in your stride, but that must've been another big shift for someone who, you know, is lifestyle wise and juggling.
Yeah,
John Collins: yeah, I mean, it, it's obviously, you know, I've had to, uh, change, like I've obviously being an athlete's a selfish lifestyle, isn't it? And so then all of a sudden it's like, right, I've gotta accommodate someone else now. Mm-hmm. Uh, like even this morning, obviously we talked about doing this like half an hour earlier, but it's like actually.
I couldn't do it half an hour earlier. 'cause I, I have to walk him and the dog because, so Karen can do, she's doing the couch to 5K 'cause she's just been given the all cleared to like, start doing some exercise again. Athletes, athletes,
Callum: athletes, just straight up athletes. So carry on.
John Collins: But it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, right, I I've, I've gotta squeeze that in.
Yeah. Because if [01:10:00] I don't, like not, she could walk the dog and she could walk him as well. No.
Callum: Yeah. Got you.
John Collins: But like if, if, you know, she has to be able to do that. Yeah. It's the job then. Yeah. Yeah. And actually like that's now my, my become, my job is to like support them, which is, yeah. Um, it is weird. It, it is a difficult adjustment and obviously it's completely ruined my juujitsu juujitsu schedule.
It hasn't really to be fair, like,
Callum: mate, you're still here all the time. Yeah. You're so dedicated. That's,
John Collins: yeah. I mean, well like I got my blue belt right before he was born, so I think, yeah, I remember the grading was end of November. He was born at 7th of December. Yeah. So. Um, which meant I can then do doubles, which I was just like, yes.
Um, I was like, that's perfect because I I, I'll come here before going to work. Yeah. And, um, it just meant that I like it. I wasn't gonna miss out too much. Yeah, yeah. If, if anything, I'm actually able to do more now 'cause I can do doubles, so.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah, yeah. But it just means I can't come every day, which is what I essentially was doing.
Callum: Yeah, yeah,
John Collins: yeah. Um, so it, it, but no, it's been, um, it's been good. And [01:11:00] you know, it's one of those things now where I like having done this, I'm like, I, I would love for him to do juujitsu, but Karen, that's gonna be a really hard fight with Karen because all she's experienced is when she came to watch me at my comp was like, that's just, just so violent.
And I was like, well, yeah. It's literally, that's literally what it is. Um,
Callum: I, I, um, I'm not, I'm not saying anything bad and, uh, because there's no names, whatever. I think it was either you, damer or Paul told me about how a parent literally ran in and onto the mat. Shoes on.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: It might have been at the old gym, I can't remember.
But it was like, stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop. Why is this so violent?
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: And it's just like, they're fine. They're like giggling, they're grappling, you know, it's,
Confidence From Training
---
John Collins: um, but the sense of the, your sense of, um, like self-confidence, like literally as soon as I learned like a submission, I was just like, I, I'm gonna be like, you know, you, before you do something like this, you kind of wonder, I mean, it's probably been a long time since you've not done something like this, but you, like, for me, I, I'm obviously like been a big, strong guy for [01:12:00] quite a while, but it's one of those things, you walk down the road and you're like, you are always kind of like, what if something happens?
Confidence Through Training
---
John Collins: You know, like, what if someone just like hopped out the bushes and tried to beat me up? Like, what would happen? And you never really know. And then once you've done this for a little while, you're kind of like, you know what, I'll be okay. And that, that, that piece it brings you is just so nice.
Callum: I, I, I couldn't agree more, mate.
It's, um, it, there's nothing's, obviously, nothing's you don't want us to come across in a, in a unrealistic way. Nothing's set in stone. It's not about, but you are, you are swinging the odds. In your favor massively, aren't you? Yeah. And, and I think I've talked about this before. For me it was just hugely, um, liberating and confidence installing in all other areas of my life, to be honest.
It was more I found I just carry, just carry yourself a bit different. But I've seen it with students, I've seen it with and you know, I won't mention any names here, but you see people where, you know, truth be told. You see people come in and you're like, oh, I wonder if they're gonna stick it out. But I really hope they do.
[01:13:00] And
John Collins: yeah,
Callum: it's such a, you know,
White Belt Energy
---
White Belt Intensity
---
John Collins: it is funny as well, you see the, like I've obviously, 'cause I do the white belt classes and the advanced classes now, so I get to roll with everyone. Yeah. And you see like the more advanced people are almost the calmer people. Yeah,
Callum: of course.
John Collins: And you see the sort of newer white belt people.
They're the most aggressive people.
Callum: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Collins: Um, and it's, yeah, it's, it's weird that that's how it works.
Callum: It's weird how it works like lit to the point. And it's, I'm not talking about one person apart
John Collins: from Smasher, apart from smash. He's been aggressive since day one.
Callum: Smash would always be smashing. Um, phenomenal athlete, actually. That guy. Yeah. He's uh, he's one of them, but it's, um, yeah, I see it now. Even still in the, like with brand new people. Yeah. Um, one is the, you know, you take it for granted now.
Getting Comfortable Grappling
---
Callum: I mean, you took to it for very well, or there'll be sports where you can see the crossover.
So like we've had, um, you know, former high level rugby players and stuff like that, and the physicality and the close proximity they get quickly.
Getting Comfortable Grappling
---
Callum: But, um, in the beginner's course in particular, [01:14:00] it's quite funny sometimes when like, we'll cover like Mount and you, you just forget. I just forget and go like, oh yeah, shit.
So I know this is weird, you know, because they're there and they're kinda like, so, and I'm like, yeah, yeah. And I'm almost like pushing them to be like, no, no, put your head closer. Yeah. You know, and they can tell this is fucking weird. And, um, but that, you know, if people can get used to it and get past it, I, you know, we talked about before, I think there's so much.
Dam, you've said this dam people just don't even hug. You know, you didn't hug people much anymore. Do you know what I mean? It's a society and, um, I think you just get so much from it, you know? And,
Primal Need To Fight
---
Spicy Rolls And Motivation
---
John Collins: um, yeah, and it also, like, there's a, I think there's like a primal part of us that needs that sort of, uh, combat to an extent.
Like, you know, like I was saying the other day, I had like a particularly spicy roll the other day with, with a guy who'd accidentally, he'd gone to grab my collar and just like punched me in the jaw. And so it got a bit out of hand. And even though at the time you're like, it was, it was it, I'd say that's about as close to a proper fight as I'd been in since I [01:15:00] was here.
And afterwards we were both just like, that was, that was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, that was, you know, you sort of, afterwards you're like, that was great. Like we should do that again sometime it was like, what? Like at the time you're like,
Callum: yeah, it is weird, isn't it? 'cause you say that. Um. I mean, Dave's, Dave's a really good example actually, of this in a positive way.
So, because I feel like I am, uh, I don't, people probably go that fuck off Callum, that's you to a T, but I don't feel like I'm that guy who comes with like, I'm inherently lazy.
John Collins: Mm-hmm.
Callum: So if I can coast through a session, I will.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: So I almost appreciate it when someone comes at me with
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: Because I absolutely appreciate it.
You can do it. I'm not saying that, you know, you just come in with some fire. I big part of me is like, thank you, because it's almost, that's my start gun. I'll go, but I won't do it the other way round unless, you know, um, but that's, you know, you're right. That's how it works. It's nice that you get that.
Intensity And Comp Mindset
---
John Collins: I definitely feel like that's my biggest weakness in this sport is like I'm, [01:16:00] I'm always like the one who waits for someone else to do that.
I like, especially when I roll with Dave, he like, he'll, he'll punish me every single time. I don't push forward.
Callum: It, it is just, it's a slippery, it's difficult 'cause there's sometimes not, not heal, not when you're with people you feel safe with. Mm. I've, I've, there have been times when I've historically have been around the game a long time.
If I'm rolling with someone who I'm just not sure of
John Collins: mm-hmm.
Callum: I always would roll within myself.
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: If they're significantly better than me as well. 'cause I wouldn't wanna poke the bear, you know what I mean? Like if, if I'm not sure of them. Yeah. Um, you know, and sometimes that kind of can be a thing.
Competition Mindset Tips
---
Callum: But I do think, um, you know, the, that whole saying though, if you look at people who are in the Juujitsu sense, who are, um, naturally good at com competing, even if you look here, you know, we, we joke about Smash.
Smash is also a phenomenal co competitor. Yeah. 'cause he is used to bringing a certain intensity. Yeah. Uh, I like Robbie Morris, he's got family and a and busy, busy [01:17:00] life, but he loves competing and he is always competes pretty well because Yeah. He, Robbie will bring certain intensity and I think we need, that's where we can do better as a club, like comp sessions.
We encourage that a bit more.
John Collins: Yeah. Um, I, I definitely notice the people who do a lot of competitions and do well in them, they're always the ones who, as soon as you sort of tap and bump, they're the ones who like kind of raise up and lean forward. And like, I'm always, even, even as I'm doing it, I'm like, why did I do that?
I'll be, I'll be like, try and grab some sort of guard or like grab an ankle or something instead of like being like, no, I'm, I wear a hundred kilos. I can just lean forward as well. You fine.
Callum: Well, on the flip side for your development though, I, I say that a lot. Like I think especially when you're earlier in your journey it were, it's not gonna do you any harm, you know, doing that.
Yeah. Like learning to, to play God, you gotta pick and pick and choose. I, I, my kind of rule of thumb was if I am, if I've been training longer than them, um, and I am, and, and if I'm bigger than, but mainly bigger [01:18:00] than them, but mainly if I've been trained any longer than them, I'll pull up. But if it's, so, like, if it was like, let's say I was spying with like someone who's really fucking good.
Um, like if I go to my mate's gym in London just to show normally that the, if they're like professional guys, they'll like shake hands with me. And if we're not doing standup, they, they pull guard instantly. Yeah. And I'm like, 'cause they would just smoke me. They'll smoke me anyway. But, you know what I mean?
It's like, yeah. So
Rolling With Upper Belts
---
Balancing Safety And Pressure
---
John Collins: I do, I do think as well, like I remember quite early on I had a, a day where I came down and I rode with, uh, rolled with, rolled with, uh, Chris on and, uh, John, you know, big John?
Callum: Yeah. Rode with John. Yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. No, no. Um, black belt John.
Callum: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, John was,
John Collins: yeah, that's the one, uh, like literally back to background and it was my first time ever rolling with a black belt was with Chris.
And I remember being like, 'cause I know Chris is like, he's like quite in, he's, you know, he is had a few injuries mm-hmm. And stuff like that. And I remember taking it as like a real compliment that, you know, 'cause I was like a two striped white belt. It's like, that's like prime. [01:19:00] Um, spa white belt, like, you know, you could hurt someone time, you know, a little bit, but not very much big and strong.
And I was just like, okay. And I, I kind of made me someone who's like, I take it as a privilege when, uh, sort of those way more advanced people want to still want to roll with me. So I don't want, I never want to be, that's why I can be reluctant to be pushy. 'cause I'm like, you know, I do weigh a lot if I just like dive forward on someone.
Yeah. That's quite a, a, you know, that's a very aggressive maneuver, you know, to do, to do. So I, it is a, there's a balance to be struck there, isn't there? There is. Which is, you know, I feel like I'm always on the slightly, uh, or passive side of that. Yeah. But, um, it's definitely something I'd like, I sometimes I'd like to be a bit more smashed.
Callum: Yeah. Yeah. I think we could address that a little bit if we had like com classes and stuff. But yeah, I think it's just, like you say, knowing your. Knowing who to do it with really, you know, is, is the main thing. Um, I say to Andrew all the time, you know, um, I, I feel bad to call him Big Andrew. 'cause you know, you probably, but you know, [01:20:00] an Andrew is like, oh,
John Collins: he is, he is big.
Callum: He's a big man. And, but I've said to Andrew so many times now with me, I'm like, mate, 'cause he, he is a gentle giant, you know, like, he, he rolls so nicely, but I'm like, I really don't mind you, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like, I, I don't mind because I know he's safe. Do you know what I mean? It's, and I, you know, I know how to make myself safe or whatever, you know?
So, but yeah, it's difficult one bud. But it's all fun and games, isn't it?
John Collins: Yeah, it's great.
Rowing Versus Jiu Jitsu
---
Rowing Versus Jiu Jitsu
---
John Collins: I, I, I, it's, it's so addictive. Like, it's so addictive. Like, rowing is not this addictive. Like it's just, um, Rowan's stupidly hard and like it, if you are good at juujitsu, you can have, you can do like a comp and like get away and feel reasonably fresh and be okay.
Whereas with Rowan, you can be, not only do you have to train a stupid amount to be very average. You also like have to hurt yourself every time. And it hurts more the better you do almost.
Callum: Well, how many back injuries have you mentioned in one conversation?
John Collins: Oh, yeah. Loads.
How Jamie Got Me In
---
Callum: You know, or Jamie, who's here.
Jamie's back. I mean, Jamie was a rower coach. Rower coach in his [01:21:00] back.
John Collins: So Jamie brought me down. He was the one. So I, I 'cause his, um, Mrs. Road with mine, ah, in Tokyo. And, um, I knew he did this. Yeah. And like, I like, 'cause the idea of coming onto the mat alone Yeah. Was quite terrifying.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: So I spoke to him and was like, are you up for it?
And he was like, I've gotta see how my back is. But he came down, we did the, uh, you know, the drill where you tuck your hands into your belt and try and get around the other person's legs. We did that and he was literally laying on the floor, just moving his legs and he was like, I've gotta bow out my back's too bad.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: So thankfully he brought
Callum: me in. He brought you in? Yeah. Yeah.
John Collins: Um, although now, now because I've like done a bit better and he's like. Had a bit of time off and there's a bit more of a competition there.
Callum: Yeah,
John Collins: he just messes me up now 'cause it's like he, he wants to be the best rower here and to be fair, he is like, he
Callum: Jamie's very good.
John Collins: He's really good.
Callum: Jamie's very good. He's, um, he's got, uh, he's got a lot of natural aptitude as well as the, you know, and, um, Jamie's one though I like. He, he, he comes, he comes and brings a bit of heat in a good way. Yeah, he's, he's good. Yeah, I like [01:22:00] that. Yeah, we got all sorts haven't we? But it's, uh, it's all fun and games.
Well mate, thank you so much for talking to us. I really appreciate it. It's, um, about blowing smoke up your ass. I'm always in awe of, uh, people that have especi, especially like actually rowing. Um, I do think, I look at it and just think this is a horrible attritional sport. I absolutely take my hat off.
That's a
John Collins: really good way
Callum: of describing.
James Cooper And Zone Two
---
Zone Two Rowing Experiment
---
Callum: Um, yeah, although I did row 10,000 meters myself, uh, last week, Damon. Well
John Collins: that's, that's, that's good.
Callum: Told, told John about it. F like I tr I wanted to row for 45 minutes. 'cause a friend of mine who actually is gonna be coming down a train with a suit called, um, um, James Cooper, who's a like fitness, got his own gym.
I know James, you know, oh, we've had this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So James is like a Colossus man. He's, he was, I dunno if, if he still is, he was the youngest ever guy in the UK to get his black belt.
John Collins: Yeah. Put it from Roger as well.
Callum: He got it from Roger. Yeah. Well, it's funny story about James. When I first went to [01:23:00] Rogers, he was one of the first people I remember seeing on the map when I walked.
So I, I trained in, um, like, uh, Brighton and then I came, went to Rogers from, uh, the guy who taught me in Brighton. He used to teach at Rogers every now and then. And he's like, come for a session. He's like, yeah, okay, cool. And he, and he wasn't there that day, but he was like, just go, go. Everyone's friendly.
It really fucking wasn't by the way back then. Yeah. Like, I, I don't mean this of Rogers as particularly as just the sport was that little bit more fight culturally back then. Um, but James was on the mat and he was a purple belt and he was just, I mean, you've seen the guy, right? And yeah. Oh my God. But then he was one of the first chats me really lovely.
But, um, anyway, he was put a thing out about like zone two cardio. Yes. That was really good for you. Longevity. And then he rose.
John Collins: Mm.
Callum: And I don't like running 'cause of my knees. And I'm like, Hobbit. I'm like, so I was like, I'll go, I I'll get, have a little crack at this row. And I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed, um, it's,
John Collins: it's very meditative.
Callum: It was, I I felt like I can just, I [01:24:00] had a pod had podcast on and I was like, yeah, this is all right. It, but. It got a little bit. I was like, fucking, how, how long I've been going.
John Collins: It was, uh, it's one of those things where you can, like, you don't really know you're tired until all of a sudden you're like, what am I seeing?
Stars.
Callum: Yeah. That was pretty much it.
John Collins: I was a long session
Callum: especially, I was like, oh, this is e standing there like few. I was like, oh. All day.
John Collins: Because I, I rode a marathon last year course, and I ran a marathon a year, a couple of years. Obviously ran a marathon a few years before that. Running a marathon is really painful on the legs.
Mm. Rowing a marathon is like. You don't, you think you're fine. And then all of a sudden you're like, you see the, the whole place is spinning. It's like, it's just energy. It's like it just SAPs it out.
Callum: Yeah. I did get up and was walking a bit funny. I thought I was all right. And I got up and I was like, everything was a bit bit toch.
Damo: Sea legs
Callum: bit spit was, yeah. Yeah. But there we go. Nice. One job. Was there anything else you wanted to talk about that I forgot to mention or anything? I, Kate said, oh, Damon's got [01:25:00] something. Mm,
Damo: I have
Callum: go on.
Damo: Um, John told me the other day about being on a tandem with Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden fame.
John Collins: Yes.
Damo: And I want to know how and why that happened.
Callum: Yeah. Well that's a bit weird.
John Collins: I try to work out the quickest way through this 'cause it, it's quite a convolute, so I did well
Callum: mate. As long as you are good for time, don't
John Collins: worry. Yeah, no, I'm all good.
Metro Marathon Challenge
---
Metro Marathon Challenge
---
John Collins: So the, um, after Tokyo, I did the Metro Marathon Challenge with Kevin Dutton, professor Dr.
Kevin Dutton.
Callum: Can you just elaborate on that for a second as well?
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: Is that all right? To segue back.
John Collins: Yes,
Callum: because I'm intrigued And you brushed over that fine. 'cause the Metro Marathon challenge sounds silly as well.
John Collins: So, Metro Marathon Challenge, I got back from Tokyo. I had nothing planned, um, which I was nervous about 'cause I'd sit, as I said after Rio, I was like, not in a good way.
And I was like, I need to be busy because otherwise it could be bad. Um, got back unpacked literally, like [01:26:00] we, I think our flight landed at like six o'clock in the morning or something. And then got, put all our kit away, put the bags away, sat down on the sofa and this just like expansive time opened up.
And literally at that moment I got a text from Kevin who had been working with, as a psychologist anyway, 'cause I met, I read his book and mentioned it in a magazine article and he, we then got in touch. He got in touch with me and we start, we basically were like, mate, we've been mates ever since, but also worked together.
Uh, he's a incredible bloke, like very clever guy. Um. He'd text me and be like, I've got an idea. And it was like, sent me the plan for the Metro Marathon challenge. And it was based off, um, I dunno how familiar you are with London, but as you drive towards the Chisik roundabout, they used to, under the flyover, they used to be this like cardboard palace where this homeless guy lived and Kevin knew that guy and he'd passed away during COVID.
Callum: Oh, okay.
John Collins: Uh, Kevin had met him once when he was out for a run. Um, uh, it, he'd [01:27:00] sort of like made a false attempt to kind of run away from home when he was young and met the, spoken to the guy then, and then gone home. And anyway, he, he knew that, sort of knew this guy and the guy had passed away in COVID. So he came up with a challenge to kind of, he, he liked challenges anyway, but it was like this was a good opportunity to kind of honor this guy.
Damo: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: So it was the, the plan was to run every run to every London underground stop. Um. Then run the London Marathon at the end of it and do it for, we were doing it for a homeless charity. So between the days we would sleep rough, um,
Damo: shit,
John Collins: I dunno if we're allowed. Apparently it's not politically correct to say sleeping rough now, which is
Damo: it not Okay.
John Collins: No, but either way we, yeah, we would, we found places on the road to sleep. So we slept in, um, slept in a park in Harrow. We slept under an arch of C Bridge. We, uh, we did go luxury one [01:28:00] two nights and stay at Lee Valley Campsite. Um, we slept in a field next to Heathrow Airport. We slept.
Camping With Bruce Dickinson
---
Dinner With Bruce Dickinson
---
John Collins: Uh, anyway, Kev, one of Kevin happens to also be friends with, he was actually best man at his wedding, uh, Bruce Dickinson.
And um, so one of the nights we finished at Turn Green, which is near where Bruce lives, and we went and camped in his garden, um, and had dinner in his house. And um, yeah, I went to have a shower and up his staircase is just a bunch of like golden platinum records and all that sort of stuff and no
Callum: way.
John Collins: Um, and he was talking about his sword collection and his, because he was nearly a GB fencer, was he?
Um, yeah, he's mad into like he is a flies planes as well.
Callum: I he was a c was he CA commercial pilot?
John Collins: Yes.
Callum: I, how mad is this? I'm 99% sure. I've been on a flight where he's the pilot. See Iron Maiden.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Yeah, [01:29:00] ma. Okay. So I, I'm not gonna lie that I, I, I don dunno any Iron Maiden, it's not my music. Right. But like.
It's a true story. I was coming back from Cyprus. Mm. And the lad, one of the flight attendants was a lad from my school.
Damo: Mm-hmm.
Callum: And he was in the year above me. But he saw me, I was like, what you doing it? And I didn't really know him very well, but then I remember him going, oh, the, the pilot's such and such from Iron Maiden.
And for me it was just side, David, I you, anyway, it's a weird threeway.
John Collins: Yeah. So, yeah,
Callum: I stopped you in your pomp. Carry
John Collins: on. No, that, that's fine.
Callum: Did you go for a win in his house?
John Collins: Yeah, I went for a win in his house. Um, and he, he had a pinball iron made in pinball machine, which I thought was cool. That is cool.
Um, and he, yeah, like really interesting bloke. I felt really bad though, 'cause it had been, it was a big day that we'd done, I think it was like 32 miles we'd covered that day. And I sat in his living room and it's getting towards like 11 o'clock at night. And I was literally just like he was talking about, 'cause he, he was writing a book about World War II German [01:30:00] planes.
Callum: No way.
John Collins: Uh, because he said they're like remarkably undercovered. 'cause obviously, uh. Ger, the Germans lost. So it was like, no one really talks about how amazing their aircraft were.
Callum: Oh,
John Collins: really? So he was like, talking about this, and I was like, it was quite interesting. But equally, as he was talking, I was like, going like this.
And I remember just like I was, I couldn't control it, but I was like, he's, he's gonna think I was so rude.
Damo: Um,
John Collins: and, uh, yeah.
Tandem Ride Chaos
---
Tandem Ride Chaos
---
John Collins: And anyway, ke Kevin's doing another challenge to do the, uh, length of the British Isles now. Um, he's like doing it as we speak, where they, yeah. They've rode from this, the southernmost point of the British Isles, which is an island just north of France to up to, um, I think it was Pool.
They came in at cycling this tandem, Rick Shore, the length of the uk, and then rowing from this place in Scotland to an island called Out Stack, which is essentially just a massive rock in the North Sea. And, um, anyway, like, yeah, we, they came through Henley, so, uh, [01:31:00] it was like, well, you're around. Do you.
Come and say hello. And I was like, yeah, sure. And then he was like, Bruce would be nipping by. And uh, it was like, well, obviously they're like documenting it. So it was like, well do you fancy getting on the, and honestly, I nearly took Bruce into the river. Like I was like, that would've been quite funny, to be fair.
Callum: It must be quite hard to ride to town
John Collins: so hard.
Callum: Yeah,
John Collins: so hard. 'cause they're really slow to get moving, but they, they're also incredibly unstable. Um, so yeah. And I, yeah, I was terrified I was going to kill him.
Callum: Put, put an end to it all before it really got going.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Oh mate, that's mad.
Fame And Olympic Hierarchy
---
Fame And Olympic Hierarchy
---
Callum: You must have actually, sorry, just to indulge as well, you must have had some fairly like, not pinch me moments, but some like, uh, um, I dunno, because some athletes get a lot more mainstream media attention.
Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And like, so, so my mum was a volunteer at. London.
John Collins: Mm.
Callum: And she couldn't have got a more perfect like job for what? She, so she's obsessed with track and field.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: And she [01:32:00] was working in the Olympic Village. In the Jamaican team.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Yeah. But she was devastated. 'cause you're saying didn't stay there.
John Collins: Yeah. No, he was, he, he, he was staying on in Rio, he was staying on like a boat.
Callum: Oh, was he? Okay.
John Collins: Yeah. We saw him going through the village, but
Callum: yeah.
John Collins: Yeah. No, it, like, you do get some cool stuff, like, through Kevin. I also spent quite a lot of time with Ronnie o Sullivan.
Callum: Oh, no way.
John Collins: Um, which is cool. It, like, we, that was actually weird 'cause um, I went out for lunch with Kevin Ronnie, uh, he had the, there was this Chinese snooker player, I think his name's Webo or something.
Mm.
John Collins: Um, and then, uh, another guy who's Kevin's neighbor, who used to be one of the managers of Oasis. Okay. I think they changed management, uh, subsequently, but like, yeah. He was heavily involved with them and I remember, yeah. And so Kevin's a professor of psychology, so is his wife. Mm. And she's like, they're, they're like absolute leaders in their field.
We were sat around in, it was in soho Farmhouse. It was a lovely beach. Yeah.
Callum: Beautiful
John Collins: place.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: And I was talking about um, our what [01:33:00] our 30 minute sessions Yeah. That we do. And like trying to explain what that really is. You've obviously got all these incredible people just like locked in on me talking about this.
What's something I think is quite like,
Callum: you think it's something not very exciting, interesting. But it absolutely is. But I know. Yeah.
John Collins: And Ronnie freak, Ronnie's quite a shy bloke as well. He, like, when we first met, he was like quite difficult to talk to. 'cause he's, he, you know, new people, he is not keen on them.
Um, so that was quite weird 'cause he was like intimidated talking to me and I was like, are you joking? Like, um, that's so it was, yeah, it was. That was really cool. And um, yeah, you do get, like, I met the both of you banks. Nice. Chris, junior and senior. I've got a photo of them. Uh, Eddie Hall
Callum: did you
John Collins: brief very briefly.
Um, got a picture with him and then. Went to the lou afterwards and he was in there patting himself. It was just offered one world's strongest man. He was patting himself down with, um, paper towels 'cause he was sweating so much, uh, wearing a suit. So that was, that was quite funny.
Callum: That's quite [01:34:00] funny.
John Collins: You see the reality of being a strong man,
Callum: I'm sure he won't mind me saying this actually, but, um, so when my brother-in-law, when I lived with him, uh, and my sister in, uh, that Olympic coming up to London, and then, so the other four lads, uh, so there was Ed McKeever won Olympic Gold.
John Collins: Mm.
Callum: And then there was another two lads who were in a K two who I think got bronze or silver. They medaled.
John Collins: Mm.
Callum: And then my brother-in-law ed, who was a big part of, you know, the team, but so those lads were always around our house, like in between sessions. 'cause they, we lived up the road and they used to train at bi
John Collins: fisherman.
Callum: Yeah. So they were always there. And I just started the magazine. So I was always at home. So a lot of the day would be like, they'd come, they'd do a session, come to the house. They'd all like start up Call of Duty or something and I'd be like, oh, for fuck sake, I'm trying to do some work over here. So I've joined in, so I got to know 'em quite well.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Um, and I'm sure Ed McKeever won't mind me saying this. Um, all of them actually very shy on the edges of Awkward Boys. Um, [01:35:00] but lovely, when you got to know, got to know them, they're just like shy and kind of, you know, all very comfy in their own silence or whatever. But as soon as he won gold obviously, and it was the London Games, um, it was, the thing that I found interesting about that was two things.
One, it's amazing how fame and stuff works because on paper you go, for me it's like quite a sexy distance. It's a 200 meter sprint in a K two canoe, which if anyone's not seen, it's pretty impressive actually as all of the, all of the like boat races is. But, so I was like, you know, they were calling him, I think they were trying to call him sort of like, you know, the.
The same bolt of the water or something. Yeah. Because he's, he's smashing this distance. And then I remember in the same games, there was the British guy who was a really good looking charismatic lad who won silver, a silver medal on the pommel horse in gymnastics. Yeah. Louis something. And just seeing where, oh,
John Collins: Louis Smith.
Callum: Yes. Yeah. And just seeing where their, their careers went in terms of Ed's an accountant couldn't be more fitting, do you know what I mean? Like, but um, [01:36:00] but when he'd got gold, honestly, like we were like going out and drinking a bit, and I was sort of tagging along with my head, but it was just the carnage and the, the fanfare around him and all these things that were happening.
And he was invited on X, Y, Z, but he was, he's quite dry. Like starting quite quickly. People were like, oh, he is a bit fucking boring. Let's not get him on the telly. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But it's quite, it's quite funny, but
John Collins: it's a very, um, it's a, that's a very, very brutal side of it, is the difference in how people are treated Yes.
Based on, um, the sport. Yeah. Because like. My Mrs for example, she obviously got her medal.
Callum: Mm-hmm.
John Collins: Even in Rio, there were things that she got to go to that I, when I tried to go to, they were like, no, sorry,
Callum: really?
Um,
John Collins: and I actually was able to get into them being her plus one rather than being an Olympic finalist.
Callum: Really? That's mad, isn't it? Um, or even was it, was it, was it Rio John where I'm sure I saw pictures of, was it all the Olympic gold medalists got like bumped to BA first
class?
John Collins: Yeah, so, so we, we had a pla uh, we shared, there was a, a team GB plane [01:37:00] that we got back and the non medalists all went in cattle class.
And I'm pretty sure to fit everyone on, they'd put a couple of extra rows in, which meant there was zero leg room.
Callum: So it was just the worst
John Collins: possible
Callum: experience.
John Collins: And, um, Karen was in business, so I just went and like stuck with her.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, but yeah, like you had the multiple Olympic medalists were in first class and
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Um, yeah, it was, I mean, to be fair, it was like a party throughout the plane and it was like when we got off the other end, it was like, get all the medalists off for their photo. While all the non medalists stay on the plane, which is getting quite hot at this point. Mm. Um, and like, so we're just there pissing sweat, waiting for them to take their photos and then they have to get back on to get their bags anyway.
Callum: Yeah.
John Collins: Uh, and like already, like you are, you, we'd been partying hard, like very hard for over a week at that point. Mm-hmm. So your body is just shot to bits anyway. Like I was fully nocturnal by this point. Um, and, and yeah, the emotion, you know, [01:38:00] alcohol combined with like, being very highly emotionally charged.
Yeah. Um, I, yeah, I got, I got, I
Callum: wouldn't have stopped crying.
John Collins: No. I, I didn't to be fair. But I got out, I came out and obviously all my family are there, so that's quite emotional. And then, um, I got, I accidentally, I basically like was in such a rush to get out. I ended up being in like the group of Olympic medalist walking out into the lobby of Heathrow where there was like crowds of people waiting.
And my friend Matt. Was had won gold medal and he was in front of me and he's getting pictures with everyone. And the, the aisle to walk down was only wide enough for one trolley. And I'm basically staring at his ankles with a trolley, like, I'm gonna ram him if he doesn't keep moving. And, uh,
Callum: take your medal and Slingy hook mate.
John Collins: That was the longest walk ever. I can
Callum: imagine.
John Collins: That was, that was hard. Um, so yeah, by that point I was very keen to get out of there. Um, but yeah, and then like picking Karen up after she's been invited to the Usain Bolt [01:39:00] premier of his documentary and, uh, we went to like a parade and she steps had got to stick around to go to, uh, Buckingham Palace and I got the train home, all that sort of stuff.
It's very, it's that properly mercenary.~ Like,~ there's no, like, there's no kind of like
Callum: we're a team kind of thing.
John Collins: Yeah. It's not, it's just like if you've got a medal, you get and, and you know, those people deserve that. The people who get it deserve that 'cause they've done, you know, but then the people who didn't get that probably also deserve it.
It's just they don't get it.
Callum: Well, like we just talked about, right? The little slices of luck or X, y, z. It's cutthroat, isn't it? Like, especially with media and things like that. Unbelievably cutthroat, I mean.
Ray Stevens Judo Story
---
Ray Stevens Judo Story
---
Callum: Another guy. So Ray Stevens is, um, a guy who for me, he, he was like, I so. I so wish I found, I wish I started Judo when I was a kid.
John Collins: He's got a gym in London, doesn't he?
Callum: Yes, he does. Yeah. So Ray Stevens is the last British man to meddle at the Olympics.
John Collins: Right.
Callum: Um, so he got silver in Barcelona. I showed you how long ago it was.
John Collins: Yeah. [01:40:00]
Callum: But he's just like, and he's a, there's a cool story behind it. So Ray was like one of the first guys to really train with Roger in the uk.
He could push, so Roger came here as a purple belt, you know, and the only guy you could train with and, and give him anything was Ray, but Ray. Like was really good at groundwork. Um, cool story behind that. So this is how it all changes is he completely done his ACL before the Barcelona and they told him you're not gonna go to the games.
Um, 'cause well, he said no, and um, I can still do it. And they were like, well, you, if then they like argument. He said, then there was the British Championship leading up to the Olympics. He's like, well, if I win that, can I go? And they're like, well, yeah. So thinking he won't be able to, can throw anyone, but he, he, he won it and he just wanted all the groundwork.
And then at the Olympics he got silver medal. And back then you could do different throws and stuff. But it's just, anyway, but I still, I would go meet Ray for a coffee in London. He used to like, he had a brand, he used to advertise my mag and I couldn't believe in my, like I'd be chatting to Ray and he'd be talking about these judo comps and just old judo stuff, all that.
And [01:41:00] I'd honestly, moments, I'd wanna look around almost and be like, let's Ray Stevens guys. Like, do you know? Like, do you know that's So it's just funny how it. How it kind of works, isn't it? Um, but yeah, it's, um, well, mate, you've still, like I say, it's all relative. You've, you know, done stuff that most people could only ever dream of.
So it's amazing.
Airport Paparazzi Punchline
---
Airport Paparazzi Punchline
---
Callum: Can I tell you, in closing, one of my favorite airport stories that ever happened to me?
John Collins: Go on.
Callum: So you talk about coming out and there are people that having their medals and you are there like waiting. Imagine this for a setting. John Looting airport. Lovely, lovely. Terrible stuff. Lovely airport.
Me and my mates are on our way to Zante a classy town in, you know, classy, classy island. Uh, lad's holiday, we're 18.
Damo: Mm.
Callum: We'll get out of our taxi. We get our suitcases on and we go through the main entrance and it's just paparazzi everywhere. And we, we are walking in and they're following us, just me and like four or five mates.
Can't remember how many of us, and we're like, what is [01:42:00] going on? And none of us had anything to say, to say to each other. So we were like. What's going on? And they followed us. I'm not joking. They followed us like taking pictures all the way while we are looking like not looking at any photographers going, what the fuck is going on?
Looking, okay, we've gotta go to drop our bags at Easy Jet this way or whatever. Then we got there and literally one photographer and one of my mates, I, the weirdest reaction mate James was going like, just ignore it. Just ignore it. Don't worry about it, just ignore it. And I'm thinking, which no one's computing yet, like what the fuck's going on?
And one of the photographers just leans into my mate Ollie and goes. You busted? We're like, no. And they went, oh, right. Then it all fucked off.
I was like, oh, that was short lived. But yeah, so there we go.
John Collins: Yeah.
Callum: Just the same as going to Olympics, to be honest.
John Collins: I mean, yeah. Fair.
Callum: Fair.
Final Thanks And Wrap
---
Wrapping Up The Chat
---
Callum: Thanks mate.
John Collins: Thank you.
Callum: It's good to speak to you buddy.
John Collins: And you
Callum: We'll have a, we haven't got, oh, I've got going now. We've been chatting for ages. What
John Collins: was the time?
Callum: 12. I'm sorry if you haven't had a chance to [01:43:00] train, feel
John Collins: good.
No, it's fine. I like, I wasn't, I don't normally train on a Thursday anyway.
Callum: Okay.
Damo: ~You liny Radcliffe are jumping on at one o'clock. ~
Callum: ~Oh. Sick. ~
Damo: ~King of the hill with Dan. 'cause last time we were here, it's the three of us. It was winner stays on and Dan didn't lose at all. Harry and I packed Dan for an hour.~
Callum: ~Brilliant. ~
Damo: ~And he never got off the mat. So what I'm saying is if you are around at one o'clock ish, uh, then why we take out ~
Callum: ~he will, but that Dan will like, he will not lose. He will be he king of the hill. We used to do a lot more king of the hill over the road when the map was smaller.~