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Everyday Environment delves into the intricate web of connections that bind us to the natural world. From water, air, energy, plants, and animals to the complex interactions within these elements, we aim to unravel the ties that link us to our environment. Through a variety of educational formats, including podcasts, blogs, and videos, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of these connections among the residents of Illinois. Explore more at go.illinois.edu/everydayenvironment.
Hosted by: Abigail Garofalo, Amy Lefringhouse, and Erin Garrett
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Abigail Garofalo.
Karla:And I'm your cohost, Karla Griesbaum.
Abigail:And today, we are here with Kevin Rohling, the extension specialist in forestry management and ecology, and he is here to chat about road ecology. Welcome, Kevin.
Kevin:Hi. Thanks for having me.
Abigail:We're excited to have you. We were like we know that, like, Southern Illinois has got some really interesting ecology going on, definitely different than my part of state. We're all missing Erin here because she's our Southern Illinois queen. But we were like, man, we wanna talk about what's going on down there. The thing that came to our brains was like Snake Road, really.
Abigail:And so we were like, there's something weird going on with roads and just really interesting when it comes to wildlife. So we're just really excited to have you come on and tell us a little bit more about what you know, and we'll go more into that. But first, you know, all of us work in extension in some way shape or form. We have weird jobs. What is your job?
Kevin:Yeah. So, my job varies quite a bit, and so I do forest management and ecology research, education and outreach. So that can vary quite a bit in terms of the topics that I cover. So I specialize somewhat in prescribed fire and invasive species, but then also we do a lot with training people in sort of general chainsaw safety and safe practices around pesticides and what else? I also do research using technology.
Kevin:So I get to use a drone on occasion to capture aerial imagery of forests and then use that imagery to help guide management decisions. So that's pretty fun. Also, sometimes do events like interpretive hikes and more general outreach and educational opportunities for students, things like stewardship week and teaching tree ID, really a whole suite of forest related education and outreach.
Karla:Those drone videos are really beneficial. Sometimes when I'm doing a program, I'll think, man, I wish I had a drone video of this, because you can just get such a greater picture of it, and I think it's so cool to see.
Kevin:Yeah. Yeah. One of the uses we had for the drone videos are especially in prescribed fire, because you get kind of that overhead view Yeah. And you can see where the fire's moving and kinda show people why it's doing what it's doing on the landscape, so. Right.
Abigail:Mhmm. Very cool. Yeah, I feel like you do a little bit of everything in Extension. I just, like, feel like if you were like, what does extension people do? Kevin would be like, I do all
Kevin:Yeah. Of It branches out too, you know? So kinda going back to this road ecology topic, my bachelor's and master's projects at SIU Edwardsville were on roadkill and the spatial distribution of roadkill in sort of the ex urban environment. So I've drifted a fair ways away from from that in some of this forest management, but still pretty cool stuff.
Karla:Well, Kevin, since you brought up road ecology, what exactly is it and why is it important?
Kevin:So road ecology can be sort of broadly defined as the study of roads and how they relate to the natural world and how they affect the environment and wildlife. And so it's really important to consider just if you think about it, we have a really massive roadway system here in The US in particular. And so, that footprint on the landscape is huge. And so, what we do with our roads has a huge impact on the environment and and wildlife more broadly. And it's not just roadkill, there's a lot of other things to kinda consider in terms of how they affect things.
Abigail:There are a lot of pieces to that. I also feel like it's kinda one of those things that we don't We're like, oh yeah, it's just like a human made thing, we tend to kind of dissociate it from quote nature, but really it's like, there's so much of it. So when we're thinking about, yeah, the ecology of roads, how do roads affect wildlife and then they're like surrounding in the habitats that they need to survive?
Kevin:Yeah. Sure. So sort of in addition to the direct mortality, it also serves to fragment habitats. So breaks habitat blocks into smaller and smaller pieces, which can be difficult for certain wildlife. You know, some wildlife require larger blocks of habitat.
Kevin:Things like forest interior birds, like ovenbirds and thrushes and and a few others really need those larger blocks. So roads serve to kinda chop those up and and make it unsuitable for some wildlife. Also, there's the issue of pollution, which is kinda obvious in some ways. Air pollution through vehicle emissions, both kinda directly can be an issue. That pollution too through runoff can actually get into the plants that are in the roadsides.
Kevin:And then, like, if we're thinking about insects, then caterpillars that are eating those plants also can take up those toxins, then it kinda radiates out into the food web from there. So that's something probably most people don't consider, but can be an issue. Habitat destruction itself, like, just building the roads, obviously, especially if it's through a more natural area, destroys habitat right off the bat. Other types of pollution, things like noise pollution is another thing people might not consider. So birds, obviously, kinda be the most obvious group of animals that would have an issue with noise because they communicate through their song.
Kevin:And so if it's too noisy, they're gonna have trouble communicating, and there's some evidence that birds will kinda leave the roadsides to get away from that noise. So roads, in their construction change hydrology, so, it's another thing that that can happen. Diverting waterways through drainages can lead to erosional differences. You can have wetlands that are filled in or have, erosional impacts then kinda change the chemistry of the wetlands. You can also have soil disturbance in the roadside, compaction.
Kevin:Roadside mowing is huge for invasive species spread, so we've probably a lot of us have seen at least things like teasel in the roadside as the road crews, through no fault of their own or do their job, they're dragging the the seed from from teasel all across the the the landscape, really. Another one that does that that we're seeing more of is poison hemlock in the roadside. It's really problematic invasive plant as well. It's also being spread by mowing those rights of way.
Abigail:And a hazard for mowers, like for mowing too, right? Like that's not just, oh, I'll just mow it down, it won't be a problem.
Kevin:Yeah, potentially, for sure.
Abigail:I'm just thinking about like, you those edges created by the road are really kind of like, it's not just the road, it's also like the piece, the management of the road itself, and then also just like, we've created edges, right? It's no longer just like a continual habitat, now it's almost all edge habitat, the road itself, is kind of what you're describing.
Kevin:Yeah, and then, you know, if there are more natural areas kind of adjacent to the road, there's actually a thing called the edge effect, right? Where just the edge of the habitat itself is different from sort of the interior habitat. So on the edge, you usually have more generalist species. You also have increased predation, like, for example, of songbird nests along the edge. So there's a lot of effects by increasing the edges that are not usually positive for wildlife more broadly.
Karla:So Kevin, one of the, like, best ways to see wildlife sometimes is by seeing them dead on the side of the road. Sometimes that's the the way some people the only way they see some wildlife species. Why do we see so many animals, like turtles or deer, getting hit by cars?
Kevin:Yeah, so there's a lot of reasoning behind different species and the frequency of their being struck. So a lot of it has to do with behavior. Right? So deer, for example, during their rut when they're trying to find mates, they're not really paying attention to the road. And so
Abigail:They got other things on their minds.
Kevin:Exactly. So so you definitely see a lot more deer roadkill, you know, in that period. So the timing is a big issue, and not just seasonal timing, but daily timing. So you might have the movements of some animals might coincide with greater traffic volumes. So again, kinda looking at the example of deer, they're gonna be most active kinda during the dawn and dusk, which in the fall at that time of year is also the same times that people are gonna be out driving the most, and so that increases the frequency of deer getting hit.
Kevin:There's also a difference in general in the recognition of wildlife to roads as a danger. Right? So you've you've probably seen deer walk up to a road, a lot of times, they kinda look around. They're a little skeptical. Not always, but a lot of times.
Kevin:But, you know and then if you think about a reptile like a turtle or snake, a lot of times they're I mean, they're oblivious to the danger of roads and vehicle traffic in general. And they also will be seeking out roadways as a cold blooded animal to warm themselves potentially at different times.
Abigail:That's a nice giant rock.
Kevin:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So so yeah, you know, some of those types of critters are just out there and just using the road. They don't they're not thinking about traffic at all, and so they're they're obviously pretty vulnerable to roadkill.
Kevin:Another one that I definitely wanna mention is amphibians and sort of kinda seasonal movements of amphibians from, you know, where they're spending most of their lives. And then a lot of times, they'll have to travel across the road to get to a wetland, where they'll lay their eggs. And so when that happens, a lot of times it's in mass and so it can be just kind of huge numbers of amphibians crossing a road. And if that coincides with a high traffic situation, that can be pretty devastating. There was a researcher, one of the early roadkill researchers actually noticed that she was finding more roadkilled frogs on this more rural road versus a more busy, well traveled road.
Kevin:And she's like, well, that's kinda weird. You'd think that more traffic, there'd be more frogs roadkilled. Well, they went back and did a study and found out that, you know, historically, yeah, there probably were more frogs being killed, but actually it depleted the population to the point that there were fewer road kills on the heavily, more heavily trafficked road versus the more railroad, just because they weren't there anymore. They had so many of them had been had been struck, so.
Karla:Have you heard about these salamander crossing brigades?
Kevin:I haven't heard of the salamander one in particular. I did find one in Oregon kinda similar to what you're suggesting with the red legged frogs. I think they called it, like, the frog taxi or something. So they had a a group of volunteers that were moving, adult frogs from their kinda daily habitat to the wetlands so that they could mate and lay their eggs.
Kevin:And then after they did it, then the same volunteers would pick them up in buckets and drive them back to their upland habitat, which is kinda wild.
Karla:Yeah, it's the same thing with the salamanders. I think I heard about this in the Northeast, but it's basically, yeah, a certain time of year, volunteers come out and just make sure the salamanders get safely across to their wetland, and then, like, yeah, make sure they get safely back the other way, too.
Abigail:Turtles on the beach. Well, I'm I'm thinking about, too, this population over time, they were pretty much decimated by this busy street, is like, that's a selective pressure too. So I'm like curious about like, eventually the frog if the frogs if there are frogs that survive that, are they like quicker? Like, what are they different behaviors that can survive something like that? I don't know.
Abigail:I'm just kinda thinking about evolutionary.
Kevin:That's a great question. I'm not sure if there's any research out out there on that. That'd be that'd be a good one to look into.
Abigail:Researchers, if you're listening and you're in research, let us know. We have lots of research ideas. Ask the questions. And I was gonna ask too, so is that, and like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not, I'm I'm like, I know nothing about like Snake Road. But like, they close down the road in Southern Illinois for crossings, like, that's one of their measures.
Kevin:Sure. Yeah. So Snake Road in in Southernmost Illinois is pretty cool. It's actually kinda known worldwide in those circles, in reptile circles, so
Abigail:I'm sure there's a name for them, you know, like a stan name for that group, the rep heads or something, I don't Yeah.
Kevin:Probably herpers, it would probably be the term.
Abigail:Way cooler than when I was thinking. It's fine.
Kevin:People who are into reptiles and amphibians and go out and seek them. Yes. So
Abigail:Yeah, Karla's over here, actually. You're like, really interesting. Like, oh no, my groove.
Karla:I go to Snake Road every year.
Kevin:Nice.
Karla:Because my husband makes me. But, and you know, we see some snakes, but also it's gotten so popular. I feel like it's really there's just so many people, I think maybe they kind of scare the snakes away. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin:So, for those of you out there who don't know, Snake Road is a gravel forest road kinda on the edge of the Mississippi Flood Plain where there's actually a cliff that rises up to the east. And then on the west side of the road, there's a large, wetland expanse. And so there's all these snakes and, reptiles and amphibians that they overwinter in the cliffs on the east side of this road and then spend their summers out in the wetlands on the West Side. And so every spring and fall, there's this great movement across the road. And some years ago, I don't know how long ago, they started closing the road, but, they've been doing it every year for for quite some time.
Kevin:And it's it's really cool to see. If you haven't checked it out, definitely recommend.
Abigail:And it's that that division of that habitat essentially that like has caused that like, we can see all those migrations because we've kind of created this space in which they have to cross essentially to get to those two habitat spaces that are essential for their life cycle.
Kevin:Right. Yeah. And it's it's just a real narrow path. It's basically the cliff, the road, and the wetland. And there's not much land in between in a lot of sections anyway.
Kevin:So so it's a really good opportunity to see them. You know, if you're just out there on your own without the road, trying to find all these snakes and and amphibians and whatnot, it could be hard to find them. Right? But when they have to crawl across the road, it's a lot easier to spot them. So it's a good opportunity for observation for sure.
Abigail:Well, I mean, so we were kinda talking about, you know, some of the animals that are at risk, you talked about amphibians in particular because they have these different habitat. Are those are like most at risk animals when we think about roads? Are there other things we're considering?
Kevin:Yeah. That's a great question. So other more at risk categories, I would say, are are rare species. So one that comes to mind is the, Florida panther. And because they were so rare, they, Florida put in quite a few crossing structures to kinda help out with that population. Actually
Abigail:Like wildlife bridges?
Kevin:Yeah. Yeah. So overpasses and underpasses are generally the main crossing structures that you'll find. Although, you know, for smaller animals, can use just small culverts can serve as passageways. When you think about those crossing structures, one of the important things is to consider guiding animals to those crossings because, you know, animals, they don't know what we're doing for them.
Abigail:So They're not looking out for the best path. They're looking for their goal. Like
Kevin:Yeah. I mean, they don't The signs. Yeah. Actually, that duck sign is for them, it's not for us.
Karla:Right.
Abigail:Don't you see that's your path, see?
Kevin:Yeah. So, like, they don't come up to a road and think, oh, maybe there's a better spot, you know, 500 feet down the down the road to to cross more safely. You kinda have to guide them into it. And so fencing is really important when considering these road crossings. Like, we were driving through Florida, not too long ago, and if you ever are in Florida, a lot of times you'll see these really high fences that kind of lead to these underpasses and overpasses.
Kevin:And you might not even know what it is unless you know what you're looking for because it might be an underpass and then there's like just some tree tops sticking out and you just like, I don't know, it's not obvious unless you you kinda seek it out.
Abigail:Unless you listen to the Everyday Environment podcast, then you know.
Karla:So why is roadkill a bigger problem than just losing a few animals here and there?
Kevin:Yeah. So for rare species like we just talked about, it can be a pretty significant source of mortality. They already don't have many to lose, you know, but more broadly, we don't really give road mortality maybe the credit that it deserves for the the total numbers are immense. So some estimates of vertebrates vertebrate road mortality are around a million each day in The US. So we're talking hundreds of millions of vertebrates alone in The US alone.
Kevin:So that amount of of mortality is gonna do some it's gonna lead to some changes. Right? So one of the things I've mentioned in the blog post was defaunation, the concept of defaunation, and the general reduction in overall abundance of animal populations worldwide, really. And that's attributed to a lot of things. Right?
Kevin:Climate change, habitat destruction, invasive species, all these just suite of, things that humans have kind of brought to the natural world and has led to this reduction in these animal populations. And so a lot of times, we're concerned in wildlife with endangered species or the threat of extinction. But if you think about the reduction in the abundance of animals more broadly, that can have impacts on the ecological functions of systems even. So if we don't have as many predators out there eating all the prey species, then that can really throw things out of whack and lead to changes that we really don't know what the overall impacts could be over time.
Karla:That's ecology. There's this trickle down effect that you may not think about when you just see one thing on the side of the road. And also, we see the big thing. Like, can see a deer on the side of the road, or raccoons or possums, but you may not notice all the frogs and toads insects, or, like, gosh, how many insects are hit? Right.
Karla:So it's kind of maybe harder to visually see that impact, like, many things are hit, when you can really only see the big stuff.
Kevin:Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Like, when we were doing our roadkill surveys, we did slow speed driving surveys, and so we were able to pick out quite a few things, but we also threw in a couple walking surveys just to find out, you know, what were we missing during these driving surveys, and it was actually pretty significant. And a lot of times, it was sort of those smaller critters or ones that desiccate to the point where, like, is that a spot in the road or was that a salamander, you know? Right. I just like thought about, there's this song, like kids song that we used to sing about like a frog and like part of the end of the song was about like honk honk with the big blue truck one day and then like the frog gets hit by a truck.
Karla:Oh, wow.
Abigail:That hobbit, I didn't think about it that long.
Kevin:Yep.
Abigail:It's like made it into the like the culture of like kid and stuff like that. So Yeah.
Kevin:Or or the video game Frogger, you know?
Abigail:Yeah.
Kevin:That was a real life going.
Abigail:Yeah. So funny. Well, so, yeah, vertebrates, obvious, and then, you know, what we think about, a lot of people forget wildlife also includes insects, right? Like, it's an animal. I feel like that's always a funny thing in people's heads, like when I tell my kids, I'm like, guess this animal, and I'm thinking in my head a butterfly, and they're like, what?
Abigail:Like, that's a different thing. I was like, I need to do a better job as an environmental educator, So but we think about insects, and of course, like, we see those. It's an obvious result of of roads, right? Like death, insect death is an obvious result. We see them on our windshield, and then I was thinking about how you said like, edge habitat and how that's all edge habitat, and a big push right now is like, what do we do with all of those roadside habitat right of ways that are like kind of scrub areas?
Abigail:Maybe we could use them for things like pollinator habitat. So I'm just like wondering, we're thinking about how these are edge habitats and sometimes traps for insects and now or for for other animals and wildlife, and it's like, is does that play into when we think about attracting more insects to these roadside spaces?
Kevin:Yeah. I think that's something we really need to consider more in road design and and sort of how we plan to manage our roadsides because there there actually has been some studies looking at the roadside habitat and how that affects insect road kills. And they did actually find that where pollinator type habitat was located next to high volume high traffic volume roads that the road kill was significant to the point that it negated any benefit of having that habitat there on the roadside. So it's definitely something we should be considering, kinda thinking about insects more broadly in addition to that sort of specific issue. There's some estimates that we're killing hundreds of trillions of insects every year just on our roadways.
Kevin:So, you know, insects are very numerous, obviously, but that's a pretty significant number, even for something that is at at pretty high abundance to begin with. So you you gotta think that it's having some effect.
Karla:You try not to think about it, right? Because we all have to drive places, and I see things, like sometimes a firefly will hit my window and it, you know, you could see it glow for a second, it'll feel awful. But like, yeah, then I'll see a Luna moth stuck in my in the front of my car, and I'm just like, oh, man. Shoot.
Kevin:Yeah. I mean, there's there's been some, you know, recent studies looking at numbers of insects globally declining similar to the songbirds over the last few decades, and it's it's significant numbers. And so is road kill contributing to that overall decline? Yeah. Yeah.
Abigail:It makes me think about though, like, feel like I hear a lot of studies about, like, trying to revive these certain butterflies that are very specific, like, haptap specialist. And it's it's like, thinking about where we place them, right, just because it's an open landscape, if it's next to a road, like, that's, you know, we're trying to attract an almost endangered species, like, putting it in a space, you know, it's not just in that space. Yeah. Opt that to be a deeper field of study, because I wanna know too, there's always like these bigger swads, like between exits too, right?
Kevin:Oh, sure.
Abigail:And I'm like, where, like, that's a little like, a right away space. Right? So I'd love to see, is there a threshold for size?
Kevin:Yeah. And I'm not sure if that study kinda looked at that. They they did also look at whether having an additional sort of pollinator strip in the middle of, like, a four lane interstate sort of situation, and they did find that that actually increased their road kill rate, like, double. So it'd be better if we just paved it over apparently or, you know, another Oh,
Karla:I don't buy it.
Abigail:Maybe not for storm water. Yeah. But Yeah.
Kevin:Right. Yeah. But another question is is does that hold true for, more rural roads? If we had, you know, pollinator habitat along more rural roads where there might be less traffic volume, maybe that would still be beneficial to pollinators. I don't know.
Karla:More research.
Kevin:Yeah.
Karla:We need more research.
Abigail:Again, I really you researchers listening to this podcast, the wealth of information here with ideas, interested grad students. Yeah. That's who we're thinking of.
Karla:So you kind of mentioned some things that we could do, like your fencing going to these different corridors along roadways. What can everyday people do to try to help reduce the harm roads caused to wildlife?
Kevin:Yeah. That's a tough one. So I generally try to move some things out of the road, but I will caution that that can be very dangerous, and it should definitely not be done on a busy road or in a road where you can't safely pull off of the road. I actually just had an almost incident the other day where someone had parked their vehicle in the middle of the highway with their flashes on, but I had come over a hill and around a bend, and they were just parked there. And there was a person grabbing a turtle and moving it over to the side of the road which is, you know, admirable but probably not the safest situation.
Kevin:If they had maybe moved over and parked their vehicle off to the side of the road and then, you know, gone out and done it. There's my point is there's safer ways to do it. So it's definitely something that you should consider before hopping out and and trying to move those turtles.
Karla:Just be strategic, you know? Yeah. Like, think about where the cars are coming from and
Abigail:I'm thinking about, too, yeah, like, you go out, you try and help this turtle, you get hit in the process, now all these other cars have to come out and help you, and that's probably, like, more detrimental to the space in general, so think about, you know,
Kevin:Yeah. And and other people's safety, like, it's not just us. Like, you know, it yeah. Could be someone pulling up behind you. So anyway, that's something I just wanted to mention in terms of trying to move animals individually.
Kevin:But in general, you could advocate for incorporating more wildlife crossings into road design. So here in The US, a lot of our road systems kind of established, but when we do redesigns and improvements, it would be great to try to incorporate some of these crossings, especially in areas where we know there's gonna be more frequent road crossings for those particular species, especially like amphibians where if we have a road going through a wetland, we know there's gonna be crossings there. So if we could kinda advocate for that, that'd be something that people could do. Slowing down. So another thing that I've noticed is songbirds, especially if you have a road that has forests on either side of the road, you'll see songbirds kinda flying back and forth right at vehicle height, especially in the springtime.
Kevin:So slowing down can really have a good effect. There's actually a threshold of around 45 miles per hour where most birds are able to sort of avoid vehicles. So if you're driving less than 45, they have a better chance of getting out of the way. Obviously, you know, on roads where that's feasible. So, yeah, I guess that's about all I had as far as what individuals can do.
Karla:Don't speed. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a good one.
Abigail:The speed is there for more reasons than just like, we don't want you to go that fast.
Kevin:Yeah.
Karla:Right. Right.
Abigail:I was thinking, I wonder if like carpooling like, you know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. Cars
Kevin:Less traffic volume. So, I always think of it in terms of, you know, climate change and mitigation, but I'm also like, yeah, if my car's not on the road too, then it's not another car that could hit something, so.
Kevin:Definitely. That makes sense.
Karla:Well, to use a bad pun, hitting more birds with one stone. Carpooling. Wow.
Abigail:We're gonna hit the bird anyways. Now it's just one car hitting a bird. Yeah.
Karla:Yeah.
Abigail:Too funny. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on road ecology and just wildlife around these, like, this essential infrastructure in our country and across the world. We are going to finish today's episode with everyday observations, where we highlight the mundane and normal of our environment that is actually really interesting. So Karla, I'm gonna pick on you, you go first.
Karla:Okay, I love going first. So, my observation is my new obsession with native thistles. So, I feel like thistles get a really bad rap because there's so many bad ones, like, there's so many on the noxious weed list because they cause harm and they're invasive. Like, a lot of them come from not around here. But we have a park out behind my office and there's lots of native thistles in it, and they are pollinator powerhouses.
Karla:Especially in the fall, there's tons of goldenrod, which are also great for pollinators. But then there's this thistle out there, and every time I go out there, it is just covered in butterflies, and bees, and flies, like they just love it. And I really I hadn't really thought about it before, and we don't have it in our prairie because I think it wasn't part of our just the seed mix that was put out there, but it really got me thinking about it, and as long as it's a safe place to have it, I think it's a really great, just like, pollinator helper, especially in the fall when things start to die out a little bit.
Abigail:Yeah. Is it the the Canada thistle? The cerium discolor? Is that what it's called?
Karla:That's the bad one, or one of the bad ones, right?
Abigail:Well, Canada Canada thistle is one of them, but cerium discolor is a native thistle, and maybe I'm getting the comment in the Okay.
Kevin:Yeah, I think this color is the pasture thistle. Think
Karla:that's Pasture the most thistle.
Kevin:That's the most common native.
Abigail:And yes, the I was working with a volunteer in a prairie, they were like, native thistles are, like, softer somehow, and I was like, oh, I love the angry ones.
Karla:Yeah. They don't seem as aggressive. They're just Right. They're just covered in wildlife.
Abigail:Very cool. Well, Kevin, what is your everyday observation?
Kevin:Well, I guess I will share. I know this is, being recorded in May and airing later in the year, so this might not be as relevant later. But so I recently noticed, the persimmon tree in our yard was flowering, and I hadn't really looked at those flowers too closely, in the past. And they're a really pretty small, like, four or five petaled, flower about a centimeter wide and long. And so I just was really excited to see those.
Kevin:And in general, I wanna try promoting tree flowers more broadly, especially ones that people might be less familiar with because they don't really stick out on the persimmon. You kinda have to look for them. They're kinda tucked under the leaves, and so you kinda gotta look for them, but their their reward is is worth search.
Karla:Do you eat the persimmons?
Kevin:Not usually. I'm not a huge fan. We have a couple of red footed tortoises, though, and so they're actually the reason we planted the persimmon was so that they could munch on those.
Karla:Oh, cool. Yep. That's a good purpose. Yeah. Love
Abigail:that. Like, it's not for me, it's for my
Karla:tortoise. Yeah. That's funny. What about you, Abigail? What's your everyday observation?
Abigail:Well, I was just in champagne with Karla and Kevin the next day was there too for our like team in service and Karla and Justin Vozzo gave a like really wonderful interpretive hike about like foraging and reading the landscape and I learned about a new type of tree that I wasn't familiar with which is the butternut tree. We just never heard of it, which I like I was like, you mean bitternut? And they're like, no. I was like, oh my goodness. I don't know what you're talking about.
Abigail:And then one of our buddies, Chris Evans, is telling us, he's like, oh, yeah. We call those white walnuts. And, you know, they kinda look like a squished walnut. Right? They're like a little more of that, like, kind of like lips flavor or lips shape.
Abigail:And then I, like, another colleague was like, oh, yeah, they're like up not a pecan, like, not as skinny as a pecan shape, but like not as round as a walnut. And so, I don't know, it's just like really cool to learn about a new tree, and to see on that site, and just to hear about the cool work that's being done at the site, and it's not the arboretum. Karla, help me out. What's the what is the the name
Karla:of Experimental Forestry Plot.
Abigail:Yes. The Experimental Forestry Plot. So that was like really cool to see, and then Karla taught me about some things that I can eat in the woods, and I just just found wood sorrel in my front yard that I was like, oh, I'm gonna take that one inside.
Karla:Just put it on my salad today, so Yeah. Did you love it?
Abigail:It was delicious. Yay. Yeah. So, that was just kind of fun and really cool to see, and nerded out with some friends, cause it was like, we all had a goal of chatting and or of like learning these things, but then we would all break off and you'd see like the slow pokes coming in who were like trying to take pictures of things and like see stuff, and it was like truly like a very fun naturalist hike, I just got to learn so many new cool things that I didn't know. So so yeah, that's I guess part of all pieces of everyday observation, so.
Abigail:Cool. Well, thank you again, Kevin, for sharing all of your wonderful resources and knowledge. This has been another episode of the Everyday Environment Podcast. Check us out next week where we talk with Sydney Oliveira about injured wildlife.
Abigail:This podcast is a University of Illinois Extension production hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, Amy Lefringhouse, Karla Griesbaum, and Darcyi Weber. Marketing and communications are by Emily Steele.