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Brad Argent and The Genealogy Guy explored the connection between genealogy and DNA research in shaping one's identity. They highlighted the significance of understanding one's ancestry and genetic makeup to gain a sense of identity and discuss the transformative nature of DNA research in providing a tangible connection to the past and one's ancestors. They also emphasized the importance of capturing family history through audio recordings, conducting thorough historical research and verification, and leveraging local newspapers in genealogical research.
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Podcast ident 0:04
The Genealogy Guy Podcast, demystifying technology, and exploring family tree research. Please remember to subscribe and share the podcast with family and friends.
Mell 0:18
And once again welcome to another episode of Armchair Genealogy with me the Genealogy Guy with tech support from Broadcast Media UK. First off a very big thank you for all those people that messaged me with compliments on the article that appeared in the latest edition of family tree magazine, which is the UK is longest running genealogy magazine. Many said that they found it an inspiring read, and it's got you motivated. So I look forward to hearing maybe some of these recordings appearing around the internet. As always, if you enjoy this episode, remember you can find all past episodes of Armchair Genealogy AT armchairgenealogy.com. Joining me now is Brad Argent, who's classed as head of ancestry studios, as one of his many titles, family historian, international spokesperson for ancestry, as well as an expert on Ancestry DNA product than the list gets longer.Brad featured in a video series created by international travel search Momondo and it's now had over 100 million hits.
Brad Argent 1:27
Last time we counted it was like 1.2 Billion views.. Which you know, it's just crazy, right? It's it's the nature of the internet, though, isn't it?
Mell 1:37
It shows the interest is there for DNA stuff. So welcome along to the episode, Brad. So looking at your biog, you study psychology, you know work in the genealogical field. How did that happen?
Brad Argent 1:52
Well, it's, it's a rather circuitous route. I started my working career in in banking, and then went into information technology, then went from that into the internet. Now I'm talking to the internet, this is like in the late 1990s. This was before the bubble burst for the first time anyway. And then sort of went from that into some advertising, I'd spent some time working for Ernst and Young in their corporate tax division, which was fascinating. And, you know, I was kind of just to be completely transparent, I was kind of bumming around the house not doing anything. And my wife was hassling me to get a job. So I saw this job. This was back in 2007, I saw this job advertised for Ancestry this, when I was living in Australia, I sort of been doing a family history on and off for ehh, for over a decade or so, I went, you never get a job, that's your hobby, but you always got to give it a shot. Everything kind of fell into place. And I've been there now for over 17 years, doing a variety of different things I started out in the content acquisition, business, you know, going out and working with libraries and archives and even family history societies to get the records that we all use. And get to licence those. And then I kind of went from that to I ran the UK business for a while and, and about the time that that Monmondo video came out. Ancestry said to me, work out how to make TV and oh!. Okay. But now, you know, many years later with multiple collaborations under our belt, it's seems to be falling into place.
Mell 3:47
Yeah, I first came across you on DNA journey. I mean, I watched on watch the series, but I watched the very first one, the Ant and Dec one, which was obviously the one that set the benchmark for you can do with the series. So that was a fabulous one and then Fame in the Family.
Brad Argent 4:02
So, Fame in the family, my job was was a behind the camera in that. So I did a lot of research, and it was Channel Four, show. I loved that show. You know, it's one of those things with you know, we've made a lot of shows over the years that have been really good, but haven't really had the kind of commercial success as defined by the network. And, you know, Fame in the family kind of falls into that category. I think you can probably get it on Channel 4's catch up or streaming service. Okay, but just to kind of give you a quick outline of it. Celebrity turns up, sits down to a dinner table with four people. Now one or more of those four people at the table is related to the celebrity. And they've got to work out who and if you can pick the right person, you win £1,000, and then they go through this sort of series of things could be in the food they're eating, it could be in the games that they play might give away little bits of information about who were the celebrities from, what their background is, particularly their ethnicity plays into it, a little bit of family history. And it was great. But what I thought was absolutely fascinating for me about this show is you have four, well, five random people. And as soon as you put them down at the table and suggest there's a family connection, the interactions change. And I think over 15 episodes, was it, the amount of guests right twice, we know that they were connected to the celebrities through their DNA. But it was interesting, the things that people looked at to find commonalities and connections was, oh, you know, we've got the same eye color, or in one case, it was like, our families used to vacation in the same place. And to me, what it did is it made the notion of understanding who you were, and where you come from. So much more accessible. Because it wasn't about names and dates and places so much it was about, what do we have in common? How are we connected? Can I feel that or see that connection? You know, I've I've certainly felt that with some of the DNA work that I've done. Genealogy or family history or, or DNA is a good thing for us as a society to understand. We're related to other people, we have connections to the past, because I think ultimately, that will help us shape the future.
Mell 5:18
Yeah the viral video. And what I've found fascinating is you emphasise the fact that it's not just about getting the document and tracing backwards, you'll almost start in right at the beginning and say, Where do I originate from, and forget all the paperwork and all the sort of names and dates, it's just like, what type of person am I made up of? And all those are the countries that actually make you, you.
Brad Argent 7:03
The way I kind of frame it is, there's two kinds of ways we connect. One is, genetically, you know, it's DNA. Now, because the reality is, we're all related, because we're all from the same species, it's just DNA gives us an ability to measure that. And then from that measurement work out, sort of a proximity, if you like, how closely related we are. But I think the other part of that is the feel like the mimetic connection. The story is shared history that we have the traditions that are passed down through the family. So if you like, that's more of the traditional recorded family history. And the reason I think these two things are important is because we are shaped both by by nature and by nurture. A lot of people who come into family history, perhaps suspicious that there might be something in their DNA that doesn't align with their family history, you shouldn't throw the family history away, because that's shaped you just as much as your DNA has shaped you. Where I think the the massive benefit in DNA is in its ability to give some sense of identity for people who have not. So if you are an adopted person, or if you don't feel a connection with your adopted family, this gives you something else to look at, if you're an orphan, or perhaps you were donor conceived, and you're trying to find out that census, I think people have to remember is, it's optional. If you do your DNA, and you don't like the results, you can just ignore them. We are so fortunate to live in a period in history where our identity can be curated. We can choose to be who we are in and we don't have to rely on the class structure we were born into, or what our genetics tells us we can to some degree step above and beyond that, particularly for younger people doing the fit their family history, it allows them to do that it gives them these things that they can use to create a sense of identity to curate themselves. I don't know about you Mell, I kina feel we've been doing that for a long time anyway, it's it we all have that one or two ancestors who we kind of connect with in a way we don't connect with all the others. And, you know, we're looking for ourselves when we make shows like DNA Journey, what we look for, and I think we do this as family historians as well, is we look for two particular types of story. We look for stories of confirmation. So I believe I'm Irish, tell me an Irish story. I have a connection to Ireland. So I wanted that Irish connection. I found it in Cork, back in the 1700s. And I cling to that, but of course, they were Huguenots, who went to Ireland. So if wasn'y really Irish? Well, you know, it's like, it's my Irish story. So it's a confirmation for me. But the other thing we look for is transformation. So I believe on this. So I'm going to find look for a story that breaks that. Or adds to that. And now you might, yeah, you're there. But did you know also, this happened? I think as family historians, that's what we look for sure. There's an element of this. Trainspotting, where it's names and dates, and names and dates, we all go through that phase, building out our tree. But then we want more, we want the stories. I think the stories that resonate with us are either of those categories, it's a confirmation story or a transformation story. And so what when we do genealogy TV, all we're really doing is exactly the same thing that you and I do, and your listeners do when they do their family history. Sure, we come at it from perhaps a different angle, we throw a lot more resources at it. We film it and edit it. But it's it's its core is the same. I think that's why it works. And that's why it resonates not only within the family history community, but outside that,
Mell 11:29
From your presentations that I've watched. And whenever you've been talking your passion for the story behind each person's genealogical journey, that's the important thing. And it's one of my passions is I'm constantly telling people of all ages, get your phone out when you're talking to older generations slap it on the table, and just record whatever they talk about. Because once they've gone, they have gone and you've lost that memory. And it can be the linchpin that will help you go to the next level and find the connection to another family.
Brad Argent 12:02
You know, it's something I'm very passionate about is capturing those stories. We did one of the episodes of DNA Journeying we did with Oti and Motsi Mabuse, who were born in South Africa. And so I had to recce that, so to go down and do the recce of that with with one of the producers. That whole show we made with one record, because that's all we could find. Wow. But everything else was oral history. We had to zigzag our way across South Africa, because it was we go to this auntie, and she would tell us this story. And it was like, oh, yeah, but if you want more, you have to go and speak to Uncle so and so who's 200 kilometers over here, and but it was getting those stories was the thing that really made the show. And I have to admit, I was quite skeptical of our ability to be able to make the show without records. And I was wrong. And I still it's for me, it's one of the it's a beautiful episode because it it shows you that family history exists in so many different forms. Yes. If all you rely on is what is recorded by the institutions, around the globe that we interact with, you're going to get a very singular view of who this person is. So if you can be someone that could it's the first thing whenever anybody says to me, how do I get started, find the oldest person in the family and talk to them today and record it. And the follow up to that is go away, do some research based on that. And then go back and tell them what you found. Because that second interview with when you provide them with other new information triggers new memories.
Mell 13:59
Absolutely, absolutely. Everytime.
Brad Argent 14:01
You know I, I filmed my grandmother, before she passed away, asked her about what her life was like growing up, and she was a young woman during the Second World War. You know, it's so wonderful to have that. And of course, I watch it. I can think of 100 other questions I should have asked, but I didn't. And of course now I can't. But at least I have that. So I absolutely with you mate. It's that's the for me. That's the starting point, you know, particularly in the 21st century where we have access to the to the technology to be able to do that in our pocket.
Mell 14:43
So let's just grab a quick break there and giving me a chance to say two things. One, whatever platform you're listening on, please subscribe as it shows us where we need to make sure our podcast appears and gives us feedback on which episodes create the most interest. And the second thing I wanted to say was, if you want to contact armchair genealogy podcast, then do drop us an email,
Jingle 15:10
email the podcast by contacting us info@armchairgenealogy.com
Mell 15:17
And now back to our chat with Brad Argent, who is head of Ancestry studios, amongst many titles, including international spokesperson for Ancestry, and an expert in his own right on Ancestry DNA product, I'm sort of, campaigning people to start collecting and start taking audios for future genealogists because from my own experience, when you find an audio recording, it's such a magical moment you go, this is the real person, it's in them. And it's so magical, and it just shows the power of the voice. All these centuries on with all the technology, the voice still instantly connects you with somebody.
Brad Argent 15:56
It's great if you can create that. But if you're able to find it, if you're able to go out and and find video or audio, it's quite rare. Where that does happen. And the payoff is just awesome. It's always worth looking. I still do quite a lot of research. In fact, I actually struggled to let go of it. Even with DNA journey, I will do all the initial research. Before we farm it out to other people to check my work, which I have to admit they need to do, because you know, I'm even even today, I still make mistakes. Actually, we recorded, we did a video called Headstone Histories, which is on our YouTube channel, if if anyone wants to take a look. And the premise for it was we go to a random cemetery, pick a headstone and then tell the story of the person who's buried there, and then go and meet one of their family, to tell them the story and to talk a little bit about it. Anyway, we were doing this, I did the family history, and I thought I'd found the descendant and I rocked up to their house, I think was the Isle of Wight and it was the wrong person. Always just like, and you know, the mistake I made, which is a rookie mistake, I am still making it, you know, 20, 30 years later, I didn't buy the certificate, just looked at the index. Yeah. And the parallels aren't my like, it was the same sort of same Christian name and surname. They both worked in a fishing trawling industry in the South. I mean that which the parallels were phenomenal. But if I had done my homework and ordered this certificate, I kind of feel like it's slightly better video because there's that Jeopardy and
Mell 17:53
it shows that people can make mistakes. And this is why it's important to keep going back and double checking things.
Brad Argent 17:59
I know there's errors in my family tree. And occasionally people will point them out to me, which is fantastic. You've got to think you've got to keep looking because new material is available all the time. And I've had this experience where I've gone okay, well look based on what I can find this story is about this person. And then three months later, new content is published. And I don't have a look and go, Oh, maybe that's not right. And have to unpick everything. You never finish your family history, because there's always new information coming out.
Mell 18:37
Just to sort of fill in a gap we wanted when you were saying that you can come across things I was I was I sign up to lots of different live streaming platforms. And BFI was and they've got a whole series of old news items. And somebody posted on a Facebook page, the history of a particular area, and they put this news clip up. And I've sat and watched it and I'm going oh, yeah, I recognize this place here. I used to go there. Yeah. And then in the background, I see my now passed away, but I see my godmother, we have just pure accident. I came across it. pure accident.
Brad Argent 19:07
I have a very similar story. Years ago, when I was in Australia, we acquired these photographs of the construction of the Sydney Harbour Bridge in 1932, if my memories right are beautiful shots. And there's a few of them. Of these photos were of the day prior to it being opened, schoolchildren were able to come and view it. My grandmother had told me a story about I was at the opening of the Sydney Harbour Bridge and kind of going okay, you were when he was 13 or something. Yeah, I'm not sure you would have been there at 13 because it was, you know, a massive event. Anyway, so I'm looking through these photos. And here's his bunch of schoolchildren, and there's this one sort of standing out the front door thats looks like my grandmother. So I print it off. And I take it to her. And I show it to her. And she goes, Yes, Yes, that's me. She said that I remember that dress. And that that was a red that berry I was, was wearing was, was red. And it was like that was my sister's dress because my grandmother was a family was quite poor, as Oh, yeah, that's my sister's dress that I was wearing. And that photo, I just stuck in a bunch of construction photos, is the only picture of my grandmother as a child, the first picture that was formally taken off her was her engagement photo, things that you find man, I, you know, it's one of the reasons why I love this hobby, because it just keeps on giving.
Yes, yes. And talking about that, like, you wanted to tell me this something about newspapers.com
I have to admit to a bit of an addiction to historic newspapers. And, you know, Ancestry, of course, yeah, one of our other sites is newspapers.com, which is just fabulous. So I'm also a massive fan of the British Library of newspapers as well. So I'm when, when it comes to research, I'm very agnostic, I will go where the information is. So I do love newspapers. And as soon as I have a name for someone, and a place and a rough sort of period of their existence, I'm straight into the newspapers, we know we've got particularly on newspapers.com, we've got more and more local newspapers being added. And to me that that, that is the goldmine. Sure, the bigger newspapers are great, and sometimes your ancestors can pop up in those. Sometimes it's not always with the kind of information you want to hear. But you know, it's still part of the story. But it's the local newspapers, you know, the, your grandparents at a sporting event, and we're getting some kind of, you know, academic award. But all the little voxpop pieces of people on the street, it's wonderful to see evidence of them existing outside of the sort of the institutional recording of their life. Yes, you get to see colour. I know they're black and white, but you get to see the color of who the person is. A lot of the storytelling that I do is shaped by what I find in a newspaper. And you might think, oh, you know, my family's never going to be in the newspaper. Maybe they're not. But, you know, I always look at the headlines of the date that someone was born, what was happening in the world. And if I can find newspapers that cover where they were, what was happening locally, I even use newspapers to look for street addresses. Because even though my ancestors might not appear in the paper the street might, and I get a sense of okay, what was going on here, in the street that they were born, they might have been the house might have been on fire, when they were eight years old, that might have been a little bit exciting. What was happening at the local pub cus, check with my ancestors, chances are, they were probably there, you get this, you get this ability to put colour and dimension onto these people. And, you know, that's kind of like, that's why I have a passion for newspapers, because they're a wonderful tool for storytelling.
Mell 23:31
It fills in the gaps. And as you say, just just knowing what was going on historically in the area, can make you understand why they may have moved or why they've moved into the area, or why the family was, was suffering because of a pit closure in the next town. Anything that has a knock on effect starts to tell you more about what was happening in their lives at that moment.
Brad Argent 23:54
You know, I think that probably the richest source of genealogical information out there. Sure, you need your your hatch, match and dispatch records. They're great, but they just tell you that somebody existed. I want to know how.
Mell 24:10
Yeah, as most people use the phrase, I don't want to put the meat on the bones. It's just it's no good. Just having the bones of somebody it's like, Yeah, but what about them, the person and the it's those little nuggets that make the difference?
Speaker 1 24:22
I often think Mell about genealogists and 200 years, they are going to see us in all her glory. I grew up at a time before social media, thankfully. And so most of my embarrassments weren't recorded. But younger people I mean, their lives are just so captured, their descendants are going to be able to see them in ways we couldn't possibly imagine. And that's equal parts exciting and terrifying.
Mell 24:54
Absolutely, because some of the things that people have done and posted and share like you go why Why would you do that? Just keep quiet.
Brad Argent 25:05
It's a challenge. I often find myself writing social media posts and then deleting them before I send them. It's wonderful to be able to be alive at a time where we can have a voice, everyone can have a voice. But that doesn't mean we always should.
Mell 25:19
Maybe some of the politicians could take that leaf as well.
Brad Argent 25:23
Yeah, well, I think if they believed that they wouldn't be politicians.
Mell 25:28
So the newspapers that are so are they is it. You mentioned like though you've started to accumulate like local newspapers as well. So this is worldwide?
Brad Argent 25:37
I mean, we'll say all around the world. But yeah, we're specialising in places where genealogical interest is greater. So it's the US and this Canada, there's obviously, UK theres Ireland, Australia. I'm not sure if there's any New Zealand it yet. But I mean, you know, New Zealand there's Papers Past, which is great. It's great, because it's free, got a love free stuff as Ther's Trove in Australia, which is also free, which is wonderful. And so I will look everywhere. newspapers.com is great, because it's got a lot of stuff. And the other thing to keep in mind when you're thinking about newspapers is, particularly American newspapers, is what is my my experience, American newspapers will pick up stories from the UK. And so I have found stories about the people I've been researching, reprinted in US newspapers, but the UK newspaper isn't available. If you're doing a search, and you're getting a record returned, that looks right. But it's in an American paper, have a look at it. Because it could have just been syndicated from a UK newspaper, I have found wonderful stuff. When we do family history research, we can get a little fixated on Oh, my family, we're here. And so information about them is only going to be here. Yeah, that might be true, you know, in the 1700s, or the 1800s. When you start sort of looking at later part of the 1800s. And into the 1900s. Information about people moved about, I have an ancestor who went to America. And for a long time, I believe they had no family in America at all. None. Didn't know who this guy just disappeared off the census records. couldn't find him anywhere. Turns out he went to America. I found that out by keep getting hints for this person. No, no, no, that's not my case. My family didn't go to America. He did didn't pop up in any of the immigration records. But there they are. And then many years later, I took a DNA test. I have cousins in America, of course I do. So kind of feel like you you need to when you're thinking about any record, newspapers is a great example. But any record, they may well have gone somewhere else or information about them may have traveled. So it's always worth, it's always worth taking a look analysing it. Don't just add it to your tree. Simply because it looks like it's right. You've got to do that work. You've got to do the homework,
As always, my time starts to run out. And everyone's busy trying to get on with other things where if people want to find out more about yourself, where would you suggest people start looking?
I am somewhat active in social channels on Twitter and Instagram. It's just Brad underscore argent. But if you're listening to this, and you haven't started your family history, but this is kind of like maybe I'm interested, the best place to start. Is your local Family History Society. Yes, everything I learned about family history, I learned from going to a family history society, it just absorbing the intelligence and experience of those people around me online is great. And you can get so much the ability to share the moment of discovery with other people in the room. Family history societies are an absolutely perfect place to start and even restart. If all you've ever done is family history online. You've never been to a family history society. Don't know what you're missing.
Mell 29:11
Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for your time and some of your opinions because I find it fascinating that once you're into genealogy, you form your own opinions and ideas about what it what it really means to be a genealogical person, someone that's fascinated with it.
Brad Argent 29:28
You know, it's again, it is just my perspective. You know, there's room for more than one opinion at the table.
Mell 29:33
And a very big thank you there to Brad Argent from Ancestry. If you want to stay in touch, then please do drop me an email until the next episode. happy, productive and fun researching
Jingle 29:47
and remember to subscribe to the podcast to be informed when new editions are published.