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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Navigating Life After a Traumatic Brain Injury, with Josh Wright
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Cody Buriff and I've got my partner in crime here, Jesse French. What's up, Cody? How's it going, man? Good, man. Glad to be with you. to be with you. And guys, today we get to do a really fun interview. Have a good deep conversation with a friend of ours, Josh. Josh Wright. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Cody. Appreciate it, man. It's good seeing your face and that beautiful beard you have.
00:29
I could say the same. Josh, we love you. We love hanging out with you. I mostly get to see you at the Grove retreats. So it's fun to see you here and have like a conversation with you in this way. So thanks for inviting us into your star into your story. Glad to be here. It was great to be a part with you guys. Love it. Well, Josh.
00:50
would kind of like just want to jump in to some of your own story, some of your own experience. And you've generously said I'd be willing to bring some other folks, some of the podcasts into this. And yeah, dude, with that very broad and vague on-ramp, take it away and sort of set the scene for, yeah, just the conversation we're going to talk about with you around your own story, a wild sort of like hinge point moment in your life that probably
01:19
kind of marks it as a before and after period and take it away, man. All right. Yeah. So yeah, in 2010 in October, I was working as a math teacher. I taught algebra to seventh and eighth grade kids. And I was working on a master's degree in middle childhood education. I was really enjoying life. Up into that point, I'd spent probably 10 to 12 years really just enjoying youth development.
01:44
teaching kids both in outdoor education settings as well as backpacking trips, kayaking trips. And I was starting to move into this professional field of being a math teacher. A lot of people ask is like, one question is, is why are you working with middle school kids? There's just something about middle school kids. And the second thing was an algebra teacher, really? So those were some great, great engagements when I was talking about moving into the professional
02:14
or the profession of being a teacher. Which I'm going to interrupt you like four seconds into it and just say, I so wish me or my kids could have had you as a middle school math teacher because the levity, the creativity, the thoughtfulness, like all of those things of who you are, Josh, like that was not my experience with middle school math teachers. And man, I selfishly wish I would have had that. And now as a dad, I'm like, that's who you want someone teaching math.
02:41
Middle school algebra was literally the worst grade I got in my entire schooling ever. Really? Seriously. Oh, bless you. Josh will tutor you after the phone call. yeah. Oh wow, that sounds dangerous. Yeah, um. Keep going. Sorry to interrupt. Oh, it's alright. My brain goes into all sorts of different directions there, but.
03:08
But yeah, that's what I enjoyed about teaching algebra is just what you guys mentioned is about, man, how do you teach something that people or how do you help students learn something that they really have no interest in at all? And so I found a lot of joy in that. found a lot of excitement in trying to help these kids to understand some concepts that were being introduced. It was probably pretty new to them. So I enjoyed that piece. So it means a lot for you to say that, Jesse. So yes.
03:37
So I was about at this time in October 2010 and up until that point, like I said, I'd spent a lot of time with kids in the outdoors doing teaching. And so as I started on my master's program, I was about in October 2010, I was probably about 12 hours away from finishing my master's degree. And we had one of those big festival fun nights in October. And so on that night, they had a big inflatable obstacle course and somebody had unplugged it without letting anybody know.
04:06
And so when I started to go through this inflatable, as I went through one of the obstacles, it was, took a dive and landed head first on asphalt, which essentially it was a fall that would be pretty similar to standing on top of your desk and landing head first on the ground. And so there was some loss of consciousness. There's a lot of things that kind of happened after the fact in regards to that. And really that was a changing point in my life. You know, when I think about
04:36
something that happened that changed everything in a brief moment. It was then. Because essentially what happened after that is that there were surgeries, there was some rehab that went on, and there was a lot of misunderstanding for me of what is wrong with me. Because being a brain injury, it's invisible. It's not something that you can see. It's not something you can touch or look at. And it's really kind of hard to
05:04
gauge what your deficits are until you start doing those things. And so I tried returning to the classroom. Like it was just too much for me. It too much input for me to keep up with in the classroom. Because, you know, as you probably remember from classrooms, a teacher is usually engaged in teaching somebody one-on-one. And then you're also thinking about this next student that needs to hear it a little bit differently so that they'll understand.
05:32
And then you got to think about little Bobby in the back that's wadden up that paper wad that he's about to toss at somebody else in the classroom. So there's a lot of different engagement to be going on as a teacher. And I just found that after the injury, that was something that was beyond my capabilities to kind of hold on to. And there's a ton there you just shared. So you talked about like some of the change of just the ability to handle fewer inputs in your environment, even just length of time. So from the time you had your injury,
06:02
How long was, would you describe like that rehab process or that sort of transitioning into the new normal of realizing like, here's my injury. I'm determining like, what am I capable of? What is the new normal? So to speak, like how long was that time period? It was quite a long time. would say easily five to six years because once again, because it's invisible, like if I was missing an arm, you would know, Hey, I'm doing one on her pushups from.
06:30
Whereas when it comes to engaging parts of your brain, the rehab process that I kind of went through, one was even understanding that all I knew is I was light sensitive and sound sensitive and that things weren't right upstairs. It's just there was a lack of engagement. so understanding that I needed help. And then where do you get help? Where do you find these spaces once you've
06:55
And luckily I had a doctor that had been with me since I was 13 years old. So he knew me and he knew that things weren't the same. But he said, I'll be honest, I don't know what to do, but if you can find me somebody or if you can find me an organization that can help you, I will sign off and help you to get the help you need. And so I'd say that process, was, you know, there was time where I did outpatient treatment or I did speech. thought I learned how to talk again. I had a stuttering problem. And so.
07:25
There's also like deficits on my right hand, like buttoning up a shirt was a pain. So a little dexterity issues. Um, and so those were just a few of the things that kind of work through and practice through, you know, face paralysis, which I didn't notice, but the speech path did, cause you don't spend a lot of time, look at yourself in the mirror. So yeah, a lot of that. And then I'd say the rehab that was probably the easiest was the one for the fusion of my neck at C3 through C5, which if anybody kind of knows it's like the base of the neck.
07:54
And, you know, the doctor said, Hey, you're really lucky to even kind of be walking. He's like, do you realize like what could have happened? So, yeah, I don't know if you got any questions around that. sounds like a major brain injury and spinal cord injury and everything. mean, lots of nerve. Well, I will say this going through rehab, I felt like I wasn't worthy to be in the room with some of these folks that were seemed worse than me. You know, how can I complain when I can still be mobile?
08:24
I can still hold my kids. I can still engage in play on a very small level with them in the beginning, but it got better as time progressed. And so for me, kind of feeling like an imposter, like even though I was getting the help that I needed to progress and to get better, I felt like I didn't belong in that room. That's gotta be a really tricky bind to find yourself in, right? Like on the one hand, like you're saying, man, I'm aware of these people with
08:52
you know, whose limitations are far greater than mine. And so that's really up close and vivid for you that, and like you said, the temptation is to minimize what you're going. But then you're also trying to navigate the realities of what you can't do now, right? With what you just described. That's not a short list or a small list of things of trying to reacclimate. And so, man, that feels like a potent mix of on one hand.
09:16
There's the temptation to want to like minimize, but then in doing so you're like undercutting men. This is what you're navigating through and what you're trying to rehab from is really significant. And so did you feel like that dynamic, how did that unfold of the need and the desire to sort through and to, to rehab, but then also feeling like, Oh, you know, the minimization piece of things is close to mine too. Yeah. I think probably the tension with my wife that I was married to at the time and my kids, you know, seeing.
09:46
One, realizing that I was spending a lot of time disengaged with them. You know, as a father, as a man who grew up in youth development and understanding the importance of a dad's role in the lives of children, not being able to engage. I remember there's quite a few times of sitting back and wanting mentally to engage, but realizing that I lacked the capability to do so was heartbreaking in all honesty. And then also with my wife at the time.
10:16
seeing her struggle. We were trying to get to the light at the end of the tunnel with a master's degree and we were almost there. And then now with the injury, there's a man that's sitting there that looks like the man that I married, but he didn't act, he didn't talk. It's not the same man. And so watching her struggle with that while she's also raising two kids almost on her own during those times. So those were some moments that I realized that
10:42
what had happened to me was worth spending time on, that it was significant, that it wasn't a figment of my imagination, that there really was something going on. And I'd say probably one of the moments when I realized things were definitely different is, you my desk prior to the injury was always kind of a mess, but I could tell you exactly where stuff was located. Like if somebody asked me, where's that pencil on the desk? I'm like, well, it's third layer down the right hand side.
11:10
Right there. Oh, you want the other color. So I knew exactly where things were located. After the injury, found myself wanting to try to, because one of the therapies was to cook a meal. So the process of getting the ingredients, opening the ingredients and keeping track of how to cook, that was one of the things that we did. And I remember looking at the cans in the pantry and realizing
11:35
that my brain was incapable of even understanding what was in front of me. So I had to organize the pantry. And for me, it was a very emotional part. Like I'm like, what is wrong with me? Like, this is not me. And so those were probably some things that were some good indications for me that there was something going on, which that's what I almost needed validity or needed validation about is that, well, you know, I look okay. Everybody says I'm okay. So I should be okay.
12:04
But in realization is that I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. Josh, how did people respond to you, your friends, your family? What was that like? Uh, a lot of comments that were kind of made, and I think they did it with some of the comments that I heard was you look fine. God, you don't seem any different to me. And that was almost devastating to me in regards to they didn't realize it, how hard I was working to make sure that they were okay with me. That helping them to be okay.
12:34
with the fact that I'm hurt. And so for them to say those things, even though on some levels it may seem as a feather in the cap, it was really almost heartbreaking to me to realize that I couldn't be myself, that I couldn't engage with them honestly, that I had to keep up a facade for them to be okay. And to be honest, I lost friends. The reason for losing friends is I think the not knowing how to engage with somebody who's been through.
13:03
a life-changing moment like that. Not being able to hold that space and wanting them just to be okay. So that was probably the biggest struggle with some of the friends and family. And also just the fact that a lot of times when somebody gets hurt, it's the caregiver that gets overlooked. A wife, two kids, you know, they were always asked about me, but they never asked about her, which can be devastating for somebody who's doing the best that she can to survive. So.
13:32
Josh, I ask this not because it's some silver bullet or some silver like perfect question, but what do you wish people would have asked or put differently? Like you use the phrase the struggle for some people to hold that space, like put a little bit of meat on that bone in terms of what that could look like or what your hopes would have been for that interaction and some of that engagement with those folks. I would say probably how I wanted people to meet me in that space is one.
14:01
I always also felt even when I went out to Walmart, I like I had to explain to other people about why I'm presenting the way I'm presenting with shades on, earplugs in, hat pulled down. It's like, I'm just trying to survive and try to live as a person as I step into these spots. I think the best thing people can do in those situations is just to ask, engage, be curious about what it's like for them.
14:30
to also be okay if they say, not today, and not to kind of be offended if they can't do the same things that you used to do in the past. And I would also say that there was a beautiful moment with some kids that I used to teach, or actually taught how to go backpacking. They actually took me backpacking after the injury. So even they waited until I was ready and they invited me and they just kind of carried me through it. So even engaging in those life-giving,
14:59
activities that you can find that person's willing to still engage in and lovingly kind of holding their hands through it. It can be very beautiful and very healing for both. So I love that image. So these are kids that you had been the leader, you had been the guide into that space, and then it was the role reversal of then they led you into that. And it was tough. mean, I'll be honest, it was tough emotionally for me, especially like purifying water, pulling out the hand pump, purifying.
15:28
and realizing that I wasn't able to connect. Like there was pieces that were kind of missing or even cooking dinner. You know, there was pieces that I could just feel me moving very slow in. But they lovingly, caringly just met me in those spaces. You know, they just quietly reached over and, you know, helped me put things together and helped me to do as much as I was capable of doing in those spaces. And also being willing to say,
15:55
Uh, you know, we didn't go as far as we wanted to go, but they were willing to say, Hey, man, we can see you're really struggling. Would you like to kind of step off the trail, you know, realizing adjusting the challenge or adjusting the activity for that. Josh, what has it been like over the last, you said it was about 15 years ago. Uh, what has it been like adjusting to the new Josh who Josh is now as opposed to who you were before? I think there's a.
16:23
A great piece to remember, I was mourning the man I was. I was a man who could keep a hundred kids entertained through games and activities while paperwork was continued to be filled out by kids, or not by kids, but the parents that brought them. Mourning the husband that I was for my wife at the time. And so there was a point where I had to realize that it was time for me to let him go.
16:50
and not to compare who I am now with who I was then to accept the fact that this is the new reality. And to be honest, the new guy I am has some things over the old guy. there's even though it's different, it doesn't mean it's better or worse. It's just accepting who I am now in the moment. And so once I was able to do that, there was almost a big sigh within physically within my body realizing I didn't have to fight that fight anymore.
17:18
that I could just focus on, okay, how do I be the best man that I am now? How do I be the best Josh after the fact? So, yeah. I'm super curious as you say that just the noticing and pulling out of the things that are maybe better about new Josh, we'll say, noticing the goodness and the glory in that. This might seem like a crazy question, but like what stands out to you about who you are now that you really enjoy?
17:47
that maybe wasn't the case before. Because I lack the ability to hold a mental space or a mental pace like I used to. I enjoy slowing down and enjoying it. Like I was a guy who was like, we've got to go get the next thing, conquer the next hill. Now I find myself kind of sitting back and smelling what's going on around me, looking, feeling what's going on. So there's a slower pace for.
18:14
A lot of reasons, the way I kind of describe it to other people when it comes to the brain injuries, that the library is still there. It's just my librarians a whole lot slower than they used to be. And so I'd say probably after the injury, that's probably one thing I have enjoyed more is my ability to be present in these moments, to be present with my kids, to be present with other men. And also to say, to be present with those men that are struggling in those spaces of healing, struggling with these
18:44
big changes in life. Josh, that makes me think of the first time I got to hang out with you in person. Well, maybe the second time you would come out to Colorado. think it was in 2017 with a whole crew of dudes from Arkansas and your son. And it was just, I think that was first time I met you in the flesh, which is great. And then the year after that was able to come down to your neck of the woods. And, um, as you're talking about, like kind of maybe this notion of holding space or
19:12
The thing that comes to mind is sitting out on the point of at Tucker Lodge around a campfire with you and I think two other guys, I would say you were the curator of that space. We showed up, you had built the fire, you had bought steaks for all of us. You welcomed us into that space so generously. But I remember like, man, I don't feel this huge pressure for like where the conversation needs to go. And we were actually getting ready for.
19:41
pretty big experience that we were working on the next day. And yet there was none of this like obligation to be strategic to anything like that. And I think that's such a testament to who you are of you recognize, hey, the goodness is to have the four of us around a fire, enjoying one another and to have that space actually first before we jumped into a weekend of goodness, but a lot of work. And so that presence, Josh, that's a rare gift. And I say that not.
20:08
trying to like tie the neat bow of resolution of like, see that, how this hard thing, now how awesome it is. But I say that just in gratitude for, and I think that's a testament to how you have engaged that process. You talked about like, there's a mourning of who I was, and I don't think that generous presence is there without your willingness to actually engage that mourning, right? It could really easily be bitterness, and it's not with you. And so I guess I would just say,
20:37
Number one, my gratitude for experiencing that and being on the receiving end of that. But like even maybe one step back, the morning of what you love to do, what you're able to do, what did that process look like? That feels excruciating or something that you're like, I would just say, let's numb that out or short circuit that. Yeah. I'm I'll jump in and just say, I'm curious what it looked like. And even are there still ripples of that today? And what does that look like even?
21:06
So not to throw too much of a question at you, like, can you kind of share what that's been like and what it is like even now? Anger definitely existed. Sadness definitely existed. So in the beginning of one, there was also kind of a questioning of God. Why? I felt like I was doing everything you asked of me. Why would this happen?
21:37
So there was, yeah, there was definitely anger, definitely sadness and a whole multitude of different emotions as a process through who I used to be. I loved being outdoors. We took a group of kids, we rode bicycles from Hot Springs to Fayetteville, Arkansas, which is four hours by car, but it took us three or four days. So, you know, being a guy who was in those spaces and creating those moments for kids to finally be in a moment where I
22:07
couldn't do those things. I couldn't engage at that level anymore. And the reality is, is that my wife and my kids kind of felt that they could feel that anger because it didn't necessarily know what to do with it in the beginning. There was lashing out that happened with my wife at the time. And so, you know, there's just all that kind of goes into being in a moment of being in the moment of
22:34
no longer being able to engage in the world that you have learned to love. Yeah. And so the moments of even losing some of these activities that I love doing, mountain biking, road biking, backpacking, could I still do those moments? Sure. Even teaching on some levels, could I engage in that level? Sure. But things have changed. They wouldn't be the same. I couldn't do them. As a lot of people said, well, why don't you become a tutor?
23:04
Well, the hardest thing for me is realizing that I used to operate on another level. so to almost to put myself into a box and almost it was like morning multiplied to, okay, well, I can't teach, but to step back into this space for me was very upsetting. I just kind of had to let it go and let's just find something new. And I say even now there are moments, even though they're getting
23:33
farther and farther apart, even engaging with my kids on the story about what it was like for me to sit almost locked in my brain, watching my kids play, wanting to engage, but not physically being able to get it into gear and talking about those moments with my kids. So reliving that, but being able to do so in a way that afterwards my kids said, thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
24:02
And as you're talking about that, what a deep thing to grieve. Like these are spaces that I loved, that I came alive in, that I felt like I was built for and I can't do those like I want to. I think that there are some people who are able to go ahead and step in those spaces, but that would just wasn't me. That's not the way that I was able to progress. know some people will say, well, so.
24:30
And, they move on and I admire those people. Uh, but that just wasn't my experience in those spaces and also being okay with that. Uh, realizing that just because somebody else is experiencing it, experiencing going through what you're going through in a different way doesn't negate what it feels like for me. So, it makes me think of two, you were saying about as you interacted with your friends and, know, the comment of like, know, you, look the same, right?
25:00
And I think, you know, even just hearing you talk about it for five or 10 minutes, like anyone with some awareness and some keen into you and knowing of you would say, yeah, okay, maybe the outside looks the same, but here are, I mean, you just named three or four pieces of your heart that are now unable to be engaged. so like blinking lights, right? Like he may look the same, but this is like before and after, you know, old Josh, new Josh, that.
25:29
threshold is being crossed. so for others to recognize and to not have some impatience around trying to resolve that, but just to recognize the depth and the significance of that feels, I'm sure that would be such a gift in the middle of you navigating that transition. Yeah. Josh, can I ask another question? You've kind of talked a little bit about how it impacted your work and your family and friendships, but I'm curious how it impacted your faith.
25:58
what happened in that space and what has been happening in that space for you? Definitely in the beginning, once again, kind of referring back to those questions of why? I feel like you've given me these gifts. I feel like I'm exercising these gifts in a way that glorifies you. Why? Why has this been taken from me? So my faith in those moments is a struggle. And really for me, was almost as it progressed,
26:26
There was a lot of mourning that and almost a little bit of anger about I almost had my master's degree. I was almost on this track of being who I feel like you're asking me to be. Why? And so there was a lot of questioning in those moments. And I think what I've come to understand, one, it helped to strengthen my faith. There was a moment when I kind of came to and I can't put my finger on that actual moment.
26:57
but understanding that God is still here, that God is still in control. And also understanding that God weeps with me, that even in these moments of where these things happen, these tragic things happen in our lives that changes, God still is there. And so I'd say as that progressed, this was not the end of the troubles, right? This is just a...
27:22
A microcosm of, and really just the turning event, there were a lot of things that happened after the fact. And in all honesty, God was the only thing that was left. Foundationally speaking, everything was kind of blown off. This house that I'd built that was gonna be my life and the life that I was gonna share with my family was blown to the bottom. And so what's left? Well, it's this foundation of believing that God is who He is and that He's always for us. It wasn't an easy...
27:52
was not an easy trail to walk. It was not an easy space and I couldn't have done it by myself. Luckily, I had some good men that stepped in some spaces. There was some retreats that I had been on, even coming to Grove, engaging those parts of my story and finding some redemption in that. And still as I continue, as I'm in this space of faith, as being able to once again just be present for these men who may be
28:21
in a similar situation or not even similar, just the fact that their life is totally different. So it's so interesting. Cody, you and I, I feel like over the last couple of months, just in one-off conversations of have just wondered and engaged around a lot of like, as we find ourselves in this kind of late thirties, early forties window, like feeling this.
28:46
Need to want to engage differently, feeling the transition, something else is needed, right? Like those are big categories, but you and I have talked a lot about that. And it's just so interesting to hear some of Josh's story around, Hey, here's this moment in his life where a physical injury causes this massive shift in his life. And so physically he doesn't look different, but the way in which he now engages is markedly different than before. And so I'm struck by.
29:13
Just the learning from that, Josh, and just in some ways, like, the way that that's instructive for us in the ways that you talked about, like, the grief in the morning around what isn't able now, your willingness to engage that, your willingness to say, like, hey, the way of navigating life that I had before, something else is now needed, and I'm willing to engage a slower pace. Like, that subtleness, Josh, to me is deeply encouraging.
29:43
Because I think what, I'll put words in Cody's mouth and jump in here, but like the way in which you're living and this embrace of Jesus's invitation towards something new and something different than what your first half of life held, man, we need people that are walking through that and that are engaging that because I think that is our desire. And there's so few examples of what that looks like. And so, yeah, just start by the time when I said that. Yeah, absolutely.
30:09
I mean, when I think about when I look around and I see guys in our age range, man, so many things are starting to not work anymore. Like our coping strategies and our, you know, all the ways that we have gotten through life to this point, you know, usually start not working when you start hitting, you know, 40 ish, you know, my body doesn't work the same way. I'm not as fast as I was or as coordinated as I was, you know.
30:38
all those little things, minor things, but they add up and start... Yeah, that's where midlife crises come from. And Josh, it seems like you got forced into that in major ways, even earlier in the process than most people. And so have been forced to walk through that kind of ahead of the game, if that makes any sense. And frankly, in more significant ways than the average person has to deal with.
31:04
And so it's interesting to hear what that transformation has been like for you and kind of how you've walked that path, the grieving of it, of who you were and the embrace of who you are now is just, it's really cool. Yeah. It's a blessing to hear about. I would say, you know, the posture of resting in the fact that even though all these things happened, even though all these things have changed, I'm still a handiwork of God.
31:35
I'm still his. Like he still views me with such love and compassion. To rest in that first helps me to be able to step out and to engage the world in a way that maybe I'm unfamiliar with. Maybe because things don't work well. Maybe because life is slightly different or my knee hurts more getting out of bed. So and I'd say another thing that's helped me is to realize did not do it alone.
32:04
I isolation, saw it on a shirt, I believe it was at the Grove, is isolation is fatal. It's so true. We have to have this community to reflect back. Even the beautiful things that you guys have been willing to share with me about how you experienced me is, I needed that reflection. I needed that understanding once again of as handy work that God is molding me into or that he's seen me to be in the beginning as I start to.
32:33
understand more about what my first story is supposed to look like. Josh, give us a little snippet into what your life looks like right now, specifically your occupation. And obviously one's glory and goodness is played out in spaces beyond just that. But it is interesting to me as I think about what you do right now for work and some of the ways that I would imagine you're able to step into that in such beautiful ways.
33:02
that have probably been informed by what you walked through. Yeah, so currently I work for King and Kingdom, which is a men's ministry that's based out of Arkansas. And so the weekends that we have usually is a five day, four night deal where churches bring a group of men, usually eight to 10. And essentially we just walk them through the process of finding an experience with God, maybe that they haven't had before or a posture that they haven't engaged before.
33:31
So what's interesting is for me to be back in these spaces and even being given the opportunity to teach again, like that would, it lit me up to realize that that was still there to sit in front of a group of men and being able to work those muscles again was healing and redemptive in those moments. So yeah, I'm a manager down here at the lodge. I have the ability to kind of go sit on the back porch and just engage in conversations with men from all over the South that kind of come into these moments.
34:01
So it's kind of funny that you mentioned about being on the points. Look, I now work here. I'm now the manager of that property and kind of oversee those spaces. So, but yeah, and I got three boys that, you know, got one graduating this year, which is that emotional roller coaster of being excited and also mourning a little bit about this might be the last time I get to do X or Y or Z.
34:26
And, uh, you know, I got another 15 year old was just starting to drive. all the chaos and the prayers that go up, you know, as you're driving with them and then the support is a dad going, you're doing great, son, you're doing great. And internally you're going, so it's always great. Uh, and then I've got a 12 year old, it's just a bundle of energy and just so caring and loving as something I'm so thankful for that my ex wife and I both have been able to instill in our kids is just.
34:55
a love and caring that they have for other people. So a lot of it is daddy limo driving, daddy Uber. that's what we do. love it. I'm so glad that you care for that physical space down in the hot springs and that that space then enables men to engage the landscape of their own hearts in needed ways. can just envision you guiding so well.
35:22
those men that are there because of what you walk through and how you've walked through it. Josh, thanks for sharing your life with us today. And with all of the people who are listening to this podcast, we're grateful. appreciate the time. Good to see you. Good to be with you, Thanks, buddy.