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There are those in the spotlight, and then there is Everybody Else.
Hosted by Wes Luttrell (Indiana-based artist growth coach and label founder), Everybody Else is a podcast dedicated to the invisible people who make music happen. Featuring solo commentary and insightful interviews with record label execs, tour managers, music tech founders, producers, venue managers, and a slew of others, this show's mission is to pull back the curtain on the lives and ways of thinking of those who make up the modern music ecosystem. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:00.748)
This is the Everybody Else Podcast.
Who are the invisible people of music today? And what do they do to make music happen? Because behind every great artist, song, venue, festival and music service, there's a tribe of people who will dedicate their lives to work that if done right, will never appear to have happened. There are those in the spotlight, and then there's everybody else.
Speaker 1 (00:29.39)
It's been chaotic, but great. So radio remotes, you have got the CMA official remotes, which are at the Music City Center. It's put out by the CMA. it's a lot of the bigger syndicated shows like the Beasley Backstage Country Show and Katie Neal. So lot of like the Bobby Bones show. So a lot of like nationally syndicated shows are there, like broadcasting live from the CMA. So they start at 7 a.m. and they go all day till four. And pretty much every
What's a radio remote?
Speaker 1 (00:59.2)
artist goes to them and they do five minutes at each, like a five minute interview at each station. And they capture content and liners and pictures and stuff for social media and all that. So there's two remotes, the CMA official remotes, the artist has to be eligible for them. have to qualify. you either have had, I think it's a top 25, either have to have had a top 25 on country radio in the past year, or you have to be nominated for an award or you have to be presenting at the awards to go to the CMA ones.
There's an amazing lady named Sharla McCoy. This is her 33rd year doing the Sharla, they call him the Sharla McCoy, sorry, Sharla McCoy music row live remotes. 33 years in a row. So she does them at the Belmont Church down there and she's amazing. And she's got another probably, I think there's like 20, 25 stations set up and same thing. They go around and do, yeah, like five minutes at each station.
Does a conversation get him five minutes? it? What is?
Well, the great news is all the stations have a list of who's coming. Okay. So who's going to be stopping by so they can prep and they know who's coming and what to expect. So, I don't know, like some of it's surface level, like, tell us if they're new artists, they're like, you tell us about your single, tell us about your story or whatever. And if it's, know, if they're nominated, they're like, are you excited for the show? Tell us about, you know, it's your classic interview, but five minutes and they'll use it for their shows or for the station. But I was talking to one station from Newark, Pennsylvania this morning and he said, you just never know.
if you're going to use this interview down the road. It's like, if they're a new artist, he's like, for example, know, Luke Holmes came and did these, what, 10 years ago? Whenever he got his start, nine years ago. And we obviously had no idea he was going to be famous, but it's like, now we have that audio forever to use. So it's a really cool opportunity. So, and everybody from new artists to the stars go do them. And they, you know, brought either the broadcast live back to their radio station or they keep the content to use later. So it's cool. And they do those on Mondays and Tuesdays before.
Speaker 2 (02:49.474)
leading up to the show. What role do you play in this?
So I escort the artists to all the stations. So if I'm their radio rep, which is what I do, radio promotion, then I escort the artists around to all the stations and they're oh, here, Christian's here to see you, good to see you guys. it is really just kind of a shmoose fest because you see everybody in town, you see all of the other label reps and all the other artists and the managers and everybody. It's one big, hey, how are you? Multiple times.
That's cool. you're there with Chris Jansen and who else?
Yesterday I was with Chris Jansen all day. We did the CMA official remotes and then we did the Charlotte McCoy remotes in the afternoon. And then this morning I had my new artist, Julia Cole, that I'm working with. She's great. She's an independent artist. She's amassed 700 million career streams. She has 2.5 million social media followers, 200 million, like I'm not on TikTok. I don't know what the kids say, but creates. Is that what they call it?
like...
Speaker 1 (03:44.856)
She I think. So she's awesome. She's very big on the social media space. She's our newest artist. So she performed this morning at the breakfast. We were able to pay to get her to get in front of all those programmers to start the day. They all have breakfast catered and they get to watch an artist play for 30 minutes before the remotes kick off. So she did that this morning at 6. And then she went around and interviewed from 7 to 9.30 this morning. And then she's going to a write after this. She's heading to a write.
Great. So... write some songs.
So why today you're working radio promotion. Your LinkedIn is music and brand consultants.
promotion.
Speaker 1 (04:22.113)
Yeah.
Promo's my bread and butter. That's what I've been doing for 10 years.
So today, as we look at it today, what is the role that radio still plays? Because I think even five years ago, this was probably five years ago, and she was saying, I don't think labels or radio will be relevant in five years.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely different. There's different ways of doing it now, right? As far as like an independent artist versus a label and in country, especially radio is still very important. And being the songwriter community that Nashville is, everybody wants to be on the radio because radio pays the best, right? Out of all of the services, know, Spotify pays, I think, 0.001 cents per stream.
Correct me if I'm wrong. think radio is like Ten Cents a stream. But radio is still very important to the songwriting community and to Nashville as a whole and to country and like, know, country there are a lot of storytellers and it's just very important for them to be on the radio. I think, yeah, and maybe not as much so in other formats, but yeah, like Julia, for example, she met with 30 different labels, all the majors, and she ended up signing with this independent label out of LA and then they contracted a few of us to work her song to country because
Speaker 1 (05:35.714)
She said, every label that I met with, wouldn't promise me that I would go to radio. And all I want to do is go to radio because she's like, I have the touring, I have the social media, I have the streaming. The thing that I don't have is radio and I want it. yeah, so it's still really important to all the artists. And country is different in this space too that any tour you go to, whether it's Luke Combs, Luke Bryan, any whatever, they all do the radio room still, which I've heard from friends that work in pop that that's not a thing in the pop world.
Video room is like
If you're at a show, which is what I used to do if I would travel, and I don't travel much anymore, but in my prime. Yeah, so you'll go to a show, the artist hosts a radio room. They have like a bar set up and food and a backdrop and the radio reps from the labels will bring in the artists and they get like 15 minutes just to talk with radio, take pictures, say hi. For the local stations, yeah, for the programmers in that market. And it's just a good way to connect when they're on the road and say thanks and make sure the programmers have a good time.
local station.
Speaker 1 (06:33.73)
But yeah, so it's still super important in the country space. And it's just more exposure too, you know what mean? It's like, if it's a tool and it helps and it's just one other audience to listen to your stuff, why not? So.
Yeah. It's interesting. I was thinking about how like in our area, Southern Indiana, country radio is predominant still. And it's still, I I listen to it, I still hear new records sometimes, almost to a ton, but it is still a relevant, at least for like the passive drives.
It is. And each station does a little differently. know, summer, I like to say that radio is kind of like the finisher now and streaming is the starter, the appetizer. Because streaming has such a short life, I think once it gets added to a playlist, like a major playlist, it's really only on there for about 12 weeks till they move to the next one. So artists, think, are finding that balance and like they want to keep up with their fans and with social media and the streaming demand and they want to keep putting out songs, you know, every 12 weeks or so, every streaming cycle to stay relevant and give their fans that
don't listen to the radio, you know, the younger kind of Gen Z crowd, you know, I don't really know one Gen Z person that listens to the radio. To be honest, it's kind of more millennials and a little bit older, but that's who the stations are targeting anyways. But yeah, just think radio is kind of the finisher. So because radio takes so long, like we just said, Jackson Dean, he's with Big Machine, he's amazing, but he just had a number one song this week and it took 57 weeks over a year to get to the top of the chart, which is great.
Are you or people like you working that record?
Speaker 1 (08:01.934)
The whole time. The whole weeks. Yeah, the whole time. Holy hell. So, for example, like, we went for ads. I'm working with Chris Jansen right now. He's single, me and a beer. He just formed his own independent team, so I'm part of that. And we went for ads April 28th earlier this year. And we're top 30 now, which is great, but, you know, trying to forecast a number one and all of that, you're just kind of like, it'll probably take a year. So really these days, unless you're a superstar like Morgan Wallen, automatic, Luke Holmes, automatic, jelly roll.
automatic, know, like Megan Moroney, now who I used to work with is working two singles at once at radio because she can. You know, she's kind of earned that right and everyone loves it. But, you know, when those songs go for ads at radio, they take the spot of like a younger artist or a newer artist because obviously stations are going to add those right away. And so then that just kind of pushes the newer artists or less established artists down the queue. And then it just takes weeks and weeks and weeks for you to...
for you to claw out and get up the charts. So yeah, it's a really interesting process.
Tell me how that works like so so with if I'm working a record for 57 weeks I am and I'm trying to get it's number one What what am I trying to really get is number one does that mean that all the stations are playing it?
Yeah, so that would mean that like if you have a number one song then it is the number the goal is for it to be the number one most played song for a radio station for that week that you're asking it for it to be the number one right we call it like a push week so Push week. Essentially there's the media based chart closes on Saturdays at midnight and it goes to all the following Saturdays so it's a week long cycle so we'll call it like a push week so when you kind of get to like number two you're like okay I'm gonna go for a number one that week and so you ask all of your stations to make it their most played song for the week so you want them to have it in
Speaker 1 (09:45.006)
which means you're probably hearing it every 45 minutes, every hour. And so you want it to be like their most played song that week. And then, you know, the media-based chart is calculated by points. So each station has a different weight based on how big the station is and how big the market is and the ratings and all of that. So, you know, like a spin in Chicago is worth 10 points, but then a spin in Madison, Wisconsin might be like, you one or two points. So, and then all of those add up when they play it. And then the more they play it, that's how you...
That's how you go up the chart and get a number one record. And everyone's goal is a number one record. Obviously as an artist to say, you know, have a number one. It's huge. If you're a songwriter, the royalties you get from having a number one and having all that exposure and all that airplay. And then as a label too, you can say, we've had this many number ones. So I'm sure that the radio programmers get, I know that they do, get really tired of Nashville because they just, everybody gets a number one. Everybody gets their week at number one and it's, you know, not every song.
is a number one song, you know, because there's research and there's all sorts of stuff that goes into everything. obviously, anytime you take a song to radio, the goal is for it to be a number one. But it doesn't always work that way.
Yeah, so like you mentioned streaming first. Does streaming give indication of what song we're gonna now work with?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, for example, when I was at Sony, I think the threshold was like $2 million a week. Like if you weren't streaming $2 million a week, it probably wasn't even a consideration to go to radio. Like there needs to be a threshold of, you you want to see a consumption story before you go to radio just because programmers look at streaming as part of their salad, I call it. You your salad has research, it has ticket sales, it has streaming, it's got sales. There's all sorts of things that they look at and everybody looks at something different. But, you know, if it's a hit at streaming already, that's...
Speaker 1 (11:26.318)
really easy for me to take that to a program and be like, oh, it's already streaming six million a week. In your market, obviously people are listening to it they want to hear it. So yeah, I would say, especially now it's important if it's not. you know what? On the flip side, not everybody is a streaming artist. For example, Chris Jansen is not a streaming artist, but he's had five or six number ones at radio and a top five. And his songs just research really well. And similar with like Justin Moore and some other artists like that. They don't stream well, but they research well. And listeners love them. They know them.
Songs are familiar. They write radio hits and they work.
Do artists like Chris Jansen, for example, if radio is the bread and butter, they, and streaming is not, do they still allocate resources to streaming? Yeah.
Yeah, course. just think, and who knows, I think if we all had it figured out, then we'd all be huge streamers, right? But what's going to make something stream? You don't know. Is it because they saw it on TikTok? Is it because they got added to their personal day list on Spotify? You don't know what makes something stream. It's really just kind of a guessing game, right? A trend. Obviously, we work the DSPs. We work Apple Music. We work Spotify. We work Amazon. We work all the DSPs. But you don't really know what's going to make something stream.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:36.458)
You know, some things are trendier than other or they're not or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:43.32)
This episode of the Everybody Else Podcast is brought to you by a true Evansville icon, the Victory Theatre. For over 100 years, the Victory Theatre has stood as a living landmark in the heart of downtown, welcoming generations through its doors for nights of music, laughter, inspiration, and unforgettable performances. From nationally touring artists and legendary comedians to Broadway caliber productions and community favorites.
The Victory continues to be the stage where Southern Indiana gathers to experience something greater than the everyday. The holidays are upon us and the Victory Theater is in full swing with Cirque Musica. It's a holiday wonderland, it's a ballet experience. We've got the Evansville Philharmonic with Peppermint Pots in December, followed by The Nutcracker by the Indiana Ballet. Into the new year, we've got Diana Craw, Brad Williams,
Tyson, the comedy hypnotist, and in March, we're bringing in Coulter Wall and the iconic Candle Box. Check out all the upcoming shows and events at victorytheatre.com and please support the venues that make our city shine. Thank you to the Victory Theatre and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (14:01.816)
So today, because then we're gonna go back, but today still, when you get brought onto a team, then, because I'm assuming now, do a lot of labels not have radio departments anymore?
They still do. Yeah, they're just consolidating. They're consolidating to, you know, there still is always going to be a need for promo. It's just, you know, when I was at Sony, they had two promotion teams and then they went down to one and allocated the resources. And yeah, every label still has a promotion team. just, it kind of varies in size and whatever, but there's always going to be a need for it because there's always going to be the radio. I mean, until they start, stop putting radios in cars and then everybody starts driving those cars without the radio. mean, radio will always be, will be around. So yeah, there's a need for it.
And so like today, for the, for Julia, like she, her label contracted you guys, you're the third party. They built their, they're building their own little independent team. Is this a common thing going on?
I think it's becoming very popular. think it's becoming a thing, right? So it used to be like labels, you you signed with the label because they fronted the money, right? But now there's this whole thing about having your masters, not having your masters. I think Taylor Swift opened Pandora's box with that, right? And everyone's kind of reworking their deals to like, do I even need a label? You know, obviously you want the label for the funds, it's like, you're like Julia, she's built her own business. She's making money. She...
Probably in more areas than just
Speaker 1 (15:22.51)
signed with Brogue because she got to keep her master's. So she's like, I really want to go to radio, but if it doesn't work, I'm not doomed because I still own my business at end of the day. So I think that there's a shift happening where obviously a label will offer you so many things that you can't necessarily. You can go find it yourself and you can contract it out. But from a PR team to an A &R team to a, you know, there's just, a label has all of that in house. So, most artists I think will go to a label, but the independent thing is becoming really cool. And that's, I'm really excited to be.
to be in that space. It's just, it's different. it's, you know, think Drew Baldrige is who really started it. He is the owner and the leader of the Lyric Records team that I'm working with with Julia. And then the Brandon Lake and Jelly Roll song that I'm working hard for, Same thing there, they contracted out our team to work it, because they didn't have their own country promotion team. But Drew was the first one to really start that. his song, he put out She's Somebody's Daughter.
And it started going viral on TikTok, but he didn't have a label. And he was like, I'm just going to do this myself. I'm going to self-fund it and I'm going to work my butt off and I'm going do everything that it takes. And I know I'm going to spend a lot of money, but I'm going to do it. And he hired like two or three people. And I think he ended up spending around 500 million, or 500 million, sorry, $500,000, half a million dollars. And it took about a year, but he was the first artist, independent artist to ever take a song to number one. And he did that like last year, I think.
Let's share that before.
And an artist like that who is, now we're like, the strategy is that we're gonna get a number one, the streaming's doing well as well as well, it's doing well as well. And then we're gonna make our money back over the long run touring and merch and all the...
Speaker 1 (17:04.866)
Yeah, yeah, and it paid off now because now he signed a joint record deal with Broken Bow with BMG, Stoney Creek. they, but I think the way he structured it is like he signed with them, but then he still does a lot of it by himself. anyway, so now he has the support of the label, but he's still doing it by himself. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was the first artist to take a song to number one independently by himself, which is really cool. So I think a lot of artists saw like, you can do that. That's the thing. So I think that, you know, he really kind of opened.
negotiating power.
Speaker 1 (17:32.854)
open the doors for a lot of those independent artists that maybe want to go to radio but didn't know how. And so I'm learning now being in this independent space that there are a lot of independent promo people out there that are doing that for hire. People like me who maybe have been in industry for a long time that have those relationships that are available to work those songs to radio. So yeah.
And I feel like that's cool too. benefits, I mean, both parties get to move freely because there's not the bureaucracy of like label structure. You get to...
Yeah, And so Chris Jansen, who I'm with right now, so he was with Warner Music Nashville for a long time and then he went to Big Machine and then his deal was up. And so he actually went back to Warner. He signed a distribution deal with them. So he has like the streaming support and all that, the distribution of Warner. So he signed to Warner, but he made his own imprint and they said, we're going to sign with Warner, but we're going to start our own promotion team because we have promo people that we want to work with that we know and that we like. And their promotion team's great, but they wanted to start their own.
their own label. So he's technically signed with Warner, but they're outsourcing their promotion.
and he's mostly utilizing them for streaming.
Speaker 1 (18:39.406)
Yeah, streaming and yeah, yeah, all that stuff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, it's really cool.
So take me back to when, how did you get into, did you always want to work in music? How did you get into all this?
I had no clue that this was even on my horizon. had no idea. So I... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yes, I was an athlete. So I grew up going to country concerts. My dad's best friend who is Emporia, Kansas. Emporia, Kansas, population like 24,000, small town in Kansas. so I grew up...
is a common theme. High performance.
Speaker 2 (19:08.654)
What's your hometown again? I'm probably Kansas.
Speaker 1 (19:17.726)
Emporia, I grew up going to concerts. My dad's best friend who was the best man in my parents wedding is Mike Kennedy He's a Hall of Fame program director. Okay, he was at q104 KBQ in Kansas City for 30 something years. I think okay sweet sub known Mike since I was born and He was a prominent program director in Kansas City So we like I grew up going to concerts and you know, I always whatever meet and greets and all that It was cool, but I didn't really think anything of it And then I was in college and I was like I need to get a summer internship and I was like
Anyways, Mike's daughter, Abby, who's married to Dan from Dan and Shay. cool. Yeah, Abby was a regional radio rep at Warner at the time at Warner Brothers. Here? Yeah, here in Nashville. And I followed her on Instagram and I was like, this is so cool. I didn't know that was a job. And then I went to this, I think it was a Brett Eldridge concert. I went to a concert in Kansas City, Hot Country Nights. And there's this guy now that I work with actually on the Chris Jansen team, Ray Vaughn. He's amazing. He's a character.
He was at the show and he was like running the meet and greet and he was like buying everybody drinks and like entertaining everybody. like, who is this guy? And they're like, that's Ray Vaughan. He's with Warner. He's like our radio rep. And I was like, I didn't know that was a thing. That's so much fun, right? I'm like a college kid. I'm like, wow, I want to buy people drinks and like get paid to go out and, you know, hang out with artists and travel and wow, how fun. Anyway, so I kind of hit a mic and I was like, I need a summer internship. I, I'm not asking you to get me a job. I just want to learn about it. Can you, you know, can you just teach me? So I spent my spring break.
that year, I think it was my junior year of college. spent my spring break kind of shadowing Mike at the radio station. And he just kind of showed me what it was like, let me listen to some label calls, just, you know, kind of gave me the 411 and then ended up helping me get a summer internship at Warner, Warner Music Nashville for the summer. So summer between my junior and senior year, I lived in Nashville for the summer and I interned in the promotion department for Warner, caught the bug, fell in love with it. I was like, I have to move here, I have to do this. And so.
What drew you in? The environment? The people? The...
Speaker 1 (21:14.978)
The environment, people, the pace, it was just fun, know, good people. It's competitive. You know, I think the athlete kind of mentality came out to me because it's like you're competing against everybody else in town to try to get the ad or get the conversion or get a number one. And it's like, I don't know, something. It was just like a fire that erupted in me. I was like, I want to do this. This is so cool. But, know, at the time it's like nobody hires a 22 year old out of college to do this. Right. And so long story short, I went back to University of Kansas, did my senior year. I interned on the morning show at
at Q104 a few days a week. I would drive from Lawrence to Kansas City and intern on the morning show in the promotions department. Kind of kept the radio thing going. And then I graduated and I knew I wanted to move to Nashville. just like, I needed a job, right? My dad's like, you're not going to move to Nashville with no job. So you're not going to like be a bartender. You need a job. I was like, that's fair. So I moved to Kansas City. I actually ended up doing sales. I was a radio sales.
Okay. Account executive at the radio station. Still city media. Yeah, still city media. Yeah, I was an account executive there doing radio sales, making like 30 cold calls a day, driving all over Kansas City, trying to get anybody to talk to me and buy my advertising. For the commercials the radio station, like the commercials you hear on the radio station. Yes, okay, Yeah, or like see on their website I was selling that. Gotcha. I did that for six months or so.
You are selling advertising for
Speaker 2 (22:33.016)
good training for cold calls like just
Exactly, right? Yes. I was like, oh yeah, I'm prepping myself for cold calling radio. And so it was fine. I was like barely paying my rent. Just I knew I wanted to get to Nashville. That's all I could think about. I like, I want to move to Nashville. I want to be a radio rep. That's all I want to do. I just got to figure it out. And so, you know, I was constantly looking at LinkedIn and label websites and looking for jobs. so long story short, followed Jimmy Harnon on Instagram. Still great friends with Jimmy to stay. is a he's the CEO now of Nash Harbor.
Records, formerly Republic Nashville. And so I followed him on Instagram and he posted on his Instagram, he goes, we're hiring. And he goes, if you have what it takes to be a badass promo rep, don't just send me your resume, close me. And like I had the email address. So I was like, okay, my light bulb like starts turning on. okay. I was like, I'm just gonna go for it, why not? So I followed him on Instagram and I knew that their slogan was fight like apes. I don't know why, just like, know, fight like apes, whatever.
That's their team slogan. So I was like, okay, so start thinking. And long story short, I sent in my resume, but then I sent this PowerPoint of like, essentially me, it's a visual of like me as a baby monkey, like starting and then what my, the transformation of me into like an ape and how I was like an ape now and I was like ready to join their team. Does that make sense? Like based on like my resume, but I made it like a visual. And I was like, he's either gonna think this is really funny or really stupid and like not even read it.
He ended up opening it and they emailed me and they were like, hey, we're really impressed by your submission. We'd love to talk to you. Anyway, so I ended up having a phone interview with them and they were hiring a promotion coordinator, which I just wanted to be a coordinator. That's like you're helping out the regionals. You're kind of doing admin. Like you just, it just gets you in the building, right? I was like, I just need a promotion coordinator. And then we're hiring a regional. I was like, okay. So then they talked to me first and then whatever they called me back and they were like, we actually want to talk to you about the regional job.
Speaker 1 (24:29.038)
You know, we think you're qualified with your background. We love hiring former athletes. You know, obviously you have the experience making like the cold calls we want to talk to you about the regional job. I was like, okay. So they're like, we're going to fly you out to Nashville for an interview. I was like, okay. So I flew to Nashville. They flew me out. They took me to P.F. Chang's. We had a great conversation. think they didn't know how old I was. I was 22. I think that they obviously knew that I was young, but I didn't like, I wasn't even old enough to rent a car by the way, legally.
part of this job is flying and renting a car and driving artist and yeah, being on the road, right? So I'll get back to this. anyways, I just remember sitting there and I was like at the end of the dinner and he's like, do you have any questions? And I just said, look, I may not be the most experienced. I may not be the most knowledgeable, but I will tell you that I will work harder than anybody else that you've ever given this opportunity to if you just give me the chance. And I'm a closer and I'll get the job done pretty much. And so I just like laid it all out there.
And I left and I was like, I don't know, I feel good about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't give it to me just because, you I'm young and I don't have any experience. so long story short, Jimmy ended up calling me once I got back to Kansas City and he's like, do you want to come work for us? And I was like, what? This is great. It was all such like, it was such a dream. Like I look back and I'm like, is this happening? This is crazy, right? This is like everything I've dreamed of and more. so packed up my stuff, moved to Nashville.
worked for them, moved in and it was awesome. That was 2015 in the prime. I had, know, Florida, Georgia line. We were breaking Brett Young. We signed Riley Green. had the band Perry at the time. A big machine where I started. Yeah. Yeah. So I moved there, moved to Nashville, was here for three years with them with my, a three year contract. And so had a lot of fun. I was on the road a lot, like every week covering shows out, but it was awesome. I was young, I was single, I was 22. It's like,
This was at Big
Speaker 1 (26:23.97)
It was so fun, I met... Huge then, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so I met, all of my best friends here and it was great. So, fast forward, my contract was up and Columbia Records, Columbia, Nashville, Sony Music reached out because they had their, one of their reps was retiring and they were looking to hire somebody else. so they recruited me. My contract was up and I was like, you know, they had Luke Combs, they Marin Morris, they had Mitch and Tim Penny, they had...
they were just on fire. Because Sony kind of went through a rebrand in like 2015 and brought in like a new executive staff. They were signing all these artists and I was like, that's really cool. And my contract was up and so was all great. Big Machine was super supportive and I was like, all right. So then I switched to Sony and yeah, I was there for seven years and I was promoted to Senior Director of Regional Promotion and Artist Development a couple years, two or three years after I was there. Again, had a lot of fun. I got to break.
some great new artists. got to work most of Luke Combs, you know, number one records. I think he had had five when I got there. And then I think I worked all the way up to like 18. Jesus. It's turned 19. So I got to work like 13 or 14 of his number ones, which was great. know, broke Jameson Rogers, broke Dylan Marlowe. Like I still think that the best and most rewarding part of this job, two things. One is like when you're at an arena or at a show and everybody sings the song back and you're like, had a part in that. I had a part in these people knowing the song. That's cool, right?
heard this before.
Speaker 1 (27:48.554)
That and then breaking a new artist and getting them their first number one. There's nothing better than that, right? Like reaching that milestone with a new artist and knowing that you had a hand in that. yeah, so I with Sony for seven years. did- Where did move? No, I moved back to Kansas City in 2018. 2018, yes. So with Big Machine. I moved back to Kansas City. My region was the Midwest and I'm from there. Okay, yeah.
Still living here?
Speaker 1 (28:13.836)
It was just easier to live in the region. Travel-wise, I could drive to a lot of places and fly a lot of places, and they were supportive of it. My now husband lived in Kansas City, and he got into medical school in Kansas City, and knew he was going to be there for the next four years. And I just was like, I'm not going to do long distance. So it was time for me to move. And I could move and still work, thankfully. So it all worked out. So we lived in Kansas City in 2018. We moved to Phoenix two years ago for his residency. He graduated med school and matched at University of Arizona.
for his training. So we've lived in Scottsdale for two years. So now I'm in Scottsdale. yeah, so Nashville to Kansas City to Scottsdale.
How does, I'm curious, like at Sony, your director, senior director of radio promotion and artist development, those two things are coupled together as a title.
Yeah, yeah. So Steve Hodges, who was our executive vice president of promotion and artist development, they really just put those together because, you know, going to radio is one thing, but you're constantly changing as an artist, and we're developing them to get them ready for the next tour, the next, you know, level of radio or the next whatever. You like you're always developing as an act, right? So we play a hand in that and developing them. So I'm not sure exactly why they combined the two, but that's kind of what the department was named.
Okay, I was curious about that because in my mind they're different but I guess they're really
Speaker 1 (29:32.11)
But they're really not. know, I radio is one thing, but yeah, but it is like you can't take an artist to radio until they're developed enough to go, right? So it's like, we're in charge of them once they're signed. So really we do have a hand in like developing them and getting them ready to go to radio and then getting them ready for a tour and then the next thing, the next thing. So it really is kind of an ongoing.
Those acts that you just mentioned that you played a hand in breaking, what did they all have in common character-wise? Like, what about them? Because there's thousands of people who want to break
Yeah. Just a hunger and a willing to work, not saying no to things. Like it is a grind, especially when you're breaking out as a new artist. We're putting them on every radio show in the country. You know, they're on a radio tour. It used to be, it's not so much anymore, but it used to be, you know, when I was breaking Brett Young, we had to block eight or nine weeks straight of his calendar to do a radio tour. And it used to be you would fly out on a Sunday night and you'd come home on a Friday night or Saturday morning.
just in time to like change your suitcase and go out again. And you would spend two weeks in each region going to see as many radio stations as possible. You'd either take them to lunch, the programmers, would either take them to lunch or to dinner, or you'd go by the radio station, play a few songs, say hey, get in car, drive to the next one, fly to the next one. It used to be like that. It's not so much anymore. You you'll still do a couple radio visits here and there, but that's what, in the good old days I call it, that's what it was, and it was crazy. But yeah, they all had...
That's what you were doing.
Speaker 1 (30:57.538)
kind of that work ethic and that drive. And it's like, no matter how tired they are, no matter how much they're missing their family, if they're losing their voice, like they still show up and they still want it that badly.
That's the real... So with those big acts, is anybody, as they're growing, from the label side, is there people working closely with them in terms of like an A &R? What's an A &R's job for a developing act like that? Because not all developing acts get a lot of attention, right?
I think they do. Yeah, I think they do. A &R departments are structured, right? So you've got your VP of A &R, and then you've got your directors of A &R, and then you've got your coordinators of A &R. So I think that once you're signed, there is somebody that's working with you that has eyes on you at all times. Is that their job? Yeah, yeah. Artists and repertoire. So it's a continuing thing, obviously. Signing them, and then artists will turn in masters. You have to make sure that the masters get distributed to the right...
to publishers or to other songwriters or to other people that might want to cut it or they're going to cut it and you want to make sure that it's mastered and mixed and ready to go to radio or to the label or to whatever or finding the right songs for them or you know I've never worked in A &R so I can't speak on exactly what they do but that's my understanding of what they do but yeah.
So, switching gears a tiny bit, for the big artists that you work with who have broken through, what today are some of the common problems or challenges that they face as the music industry is evolving, as things have gone digital, they've, you know, some of them came up in a different time that the industry's changed now. Are there like common challenges that you recognize or what are some of the things that...
Speaker 1 (32:43.138)
Yeah, I don't know that it's just for the big artists. think for all artists, something that I've heard is that they're now content creators versus just artists. Like a lot of artists just want to write songs and sing them and go perform them. But now they're expected to be content creators. They have to get on TikTok. They have to get on Instagram. They have to make a reel. They have to connect with their fans and like the comments and be constantly be thinking about what they're going to post next. Because somebody else, if they're not, somebody else is posting something and grabbing their crowd, you know, and like they're fighting for the same social media space. I think that especially during COVID when they couldn't tour,
I think that there was so much over saturation of content, content creation, because that's the only way you could connect with people, Was on social media through their phones, because we couldn't be on the road. And so I think that a lot of artists, they're like, I'm not a content creator. I don't want to be an influencer. I don't want to just sit around and do TikToks and make content all day. But on the flip side, it's a great tool. Like somebody like Julia, she broke on TikTok and that's how she made her business, because that was her tool. But somebody like, whatever, an established artist is like, ugh.
A lot of these Nashville guys are like, I just want to write songs and I just want to sing them and I just want to go hunt and fish and be with my family when I'm not having to do that. And instead they're asking me to like get on social media and I have to have a whole digital team and a social team. Like, know, what Jess does. have to do like these scheduled posts and I have to, you know, be a content creator. And I think a lot of them, that has definitely changed over the last 10 years that I've been doing this.
Do they have teams? Do a lot of them have? Like if outside the label, do they have like?
Yeah, like most labels have their own digital team that does like social media and stuff like that and then most of their managers or management companies, you know, have their own digital team. Provide that. Yeah, that will provide that too.
Speaker 2 (34:24.353)
This episode of the Everybody Else Podcast is supported by ThruLine Development Company. It's my boutique coaching practice centered around helping artists reconnect with their clarity, their voice, and the deeper thread that runs through all of their work. Hence the name, ThruLine. I've come to believe that when an artist knows who they are and where they're going with precision, something shifts. The noise quiets, the decisions simplify.
and the work begins to feel more like it did in the beginning, back when an artist is curious and alive and honest. So often the struggle isn't talent or opportunity, it's the internal friction. It's doubt, misalignment, inherited habits, and ways of operating that keep recreating the same results. Over time, the artist can drift further from their own center without even realizing it.
ThruLine exists to explore that space, not to impose a formula, but to uncover what's already true, to refine the artist's vision and examine how the surrounding systems either support or suppress that truth. At its core, my work is all about alignment. It's about remembering what matters most. It's about removing what no longer serves the work so that the work can move freely again. ThruLine is not about becoming something new.
about returning to what was always there. If you're an artist or you work on an artist team and any of this resonates with you, you can learn more about my work and the philosophy at artistdev.co. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (36:09.102)
This last year, you've been, almost this last year, it's coming up on a year, you've been independent. How has life itself changed for you?
It's your work relationship. I feel a lot lighter. In a good way. I look back at the last 10 years as like, I always said, if I can do this for 10 years, I'll be really proud of myself because 10 years in the music industry, especially traveling and being on the road like that is like 20 years in any other industry. So I'm like, if I can just do it for like 10 years, I'll feel really good. And I always kind of said, I'll probably do this until I have kids, just knowing myself. I was like, I'll probably do this until I have kids and then I'll want to switch and kind of do something else just because, you know, your kids are only little for so long.
you want to be with them. And so, you know, I had a great maternity leave and I did go back to work and I was on the road and I just found that I was torn. Like my heart was in two places. It's like, man, I've done this forever and this is so familiar and what I know, but like I'm in a courtyard Marriott 3000 miles away from my daughter and I want to be at home. And I was like, I don't feel, you know, it's obviously I still loved what I was doing, but I was like, I don't feel the same.
passion and like the same high that I get from being on the road because my life has changed, my circumstances have changed and like I just really want to be with my family. But I'm so motivated and like an achiever and it's like I want to work. I just need to make, I just want work to look different but I don't know how to do that because I've, you know, I've done this for so long and I was so happy at Sony and I loved my family and my friends that were at Sony that I had built, you know, and so I was like, oh gosh, like I was really kind of struggling those last few months, you know, going back to work and so the decision was made for me.
You know, I think it's a God thing for sure. I look back and I'm just a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. So yeah, Sony made changes to their promotion department back in February and I was one of the ones that was let go with my whole team. And I'm like, you know what? We had a great run. I look back and I'm like, I'm so proud of everything that we accomplished. I'm so thankful for the friendships that I made. You know, I saw Luke Holmes and Mitchelton Penny yesterday and saw their managers and we hugged and it's like, you know, it's all good. No bad blood at all. I think everything happened for a reason. And I think deep down I was really
Speaker 1 (38:11.736)
craving for a change, I just had no idea how to make it happen. And I don't think that I would have left if I wasn't forced to leave. you know, when one door closes, another door opens, is what they say. And so really, yeah, it all happened quickly in February. And I was like, you know, I was at a Dylan Marlowe show in Chicago on a Friday and I got fired on a Tuesday. Not knowing it was coming. was crazy. Unexpected, but I just kind of really took that time for reflection. I'm like, what do want my life to look like now? You know?
this is a new opportunity. could do anything. And at the time I actually was kind of interviewing with the Arizona Cardinals. I was like, oh, maybe I'll get into like brand partnerships. That didn't end up working out. It's really hard to explain my job and my experience to somebody that's not in the music industry. You know what I mean? Like how do you put that on a resume and how do you apply to jobs and make it make sense to people? Because it is sales in a sense, right? But if you're not in it, you're like, okay, you got a number one record. What does that mean? You've worked 35 number one records. What does that mean? And it's like, if you're not in it, it's so hard to explain to somebody not in music.
thing that's
Yeah, how do you put that on a resume and you know, chat GPT can only help you so much. So I really was like kind of applying for some jobs and I was just like, this doesn't feel like me. You know what mean? I don't, I don't know what I want to do next. was like, but I, you know, I've worked so hard to build this career and these relationships and this is all I've ever known. So I was like, I want to stay in this. just don't, I don't know what I want it to look like. So anyways, took the, just honestly, I took like three weeks to figure it out. And I was like,
I have to do something, I'm going crazy. So Drew Baldrige called me, circling back to Drew. I knew him from, you I had some artists on the same show as him and I just know him from being in the industry. And he called me he was like, hey, what's up? He's like, sorry about the news. He goes, so I started my own team, Lyric Records. We're working the Brandon Lake and Jelly Roll song, Hard For Hallelujah. Have you heard it? I was like, no, send me the music. Went and listened to it he's like, okay, well, do you want to come work for us? I'm like, what do mean?
Speaker 1 (40:07.086)
I have my own independent team. He goes, it's not gonna pay all your bills. It'll pay some of your bills. If you wanna come work for us, you can just be a mom and make calls from home. You don't have to travel. But if you want, you can just like, you know, get back in the promo saddle and make some calls. And so I was like, oh, that's cool. Yeah, why not? I'll do it. When do I start? And he's like, you can start Monday. Sounds good. And so I was like, oh, I'll just do that for a while. Like, you know, I was living on my severance, but I was like, oh, it'll make me some cash and I can just like still, you know, have a few calls to make a day while I'm being a mom and figuring out life. So that sounds good.
So I did that and then it was going really well and I was like, you know what? This is really cool. There's no pressure to like travel. They have one or two Zooms a week. It's a great team. I love the people that I'm working with. And I was like, all right, this is cool. Like I didn't think I was going to be an indie, you know, permanently. I was like, I'm not going make a career out of it. So then my wheels start turning and I'm like, okay, I think I to work for myself. This is cool. I have so much freedom. I have so much flexibility.
Probably so much more value than you recognized initially, but just for them to reach out to you and think like all of your connections
My husband always says I don't give myself enough credit. He's like, you're very valuable and you have a lot to offer, you just don't give yourself enough credit. And so I kind of started thinking, I was like, okay, I do have a lot to offer. Like could turn this into something. And so, yeah, long story short, I made an LLC. I was like, all right, if I'm getting this money, you I want to like put it into an account and, and legitimize it and all that. And so I ended up making my own LLC. And the idea was, all right, I'm going to do promo because that's like what I know in my bread and butter. And I know that I can like,
Yeah, I can't
Speaker 1 (41:34.776)
Yeah, knock it out. But then I was like, maybe I do like some like consulting or maybe I do I'm really passionate about like the brand partnership space. I haven't done a lot with it yet. I'm planning to just because I ended up getting really busy in the promotion world and I didn't expect to be so I haven't had a lot of time to do the brand partnership thing. But that's something that I'm really interested in. And, you know, obviously working for yourself, you don't have to be in one box, you can kind of do that. So
I was going to do some brand partnership stuff for Dylan Marlowe, who I worked with at Sony. So I did kind of start pitching him to a couple brands and met with a couple people. have a friend that runs her own kind brand partnership thing in Kansas City with athletes. And so I met with her and was like, tell me how this works. And so kind of started doing that. But then the radio gigs kept coming. And I was like, my god, I'm so busy. I don't have time to dig into this brand thing. And so that still is a thought. I hope to dig into that eventually, maybe when I have a little bit more time.
Yeah, long story short, so then I was with Lyric Ridge Records as an independent contractor doing my LLC stuff. And then it started with that. And I was like, I'll just do one. And then the Jansons called and they're like, we're starting our own promo team. We want you to be on it. I'm like, oh gosh, I don't know if I want to take on another one. I'm really happy with the one I've got. know, I'm still kind of figuring things out. And they're like, we're not going to take no for an answer. And I was like, OK, sounds good. So the great news about the Jansons team and both teams, but the great news about that team is
Kelly Janssen is married to Chris and she's also his manager. And they have been around for 10 years, you know, around radio, so they know all the programmers. So she's like, you don't have to travel at all. She's like, I will cover all the shows. If you can just make the calls and deliver Airplay for us, we'll travel. so they're, yeah, they're amazing. They've been great to me. honestly, yeah. And then Julia Cole came out with the Lyric Ridge team as well, you know, and so, and they're looking for a couple of new artists too. They're trying to build that team out too. So.
And both teams have expressed, you know, me on long term. And so, so it's great. So I'm basically making as much money as I was before. And I'm not traveling. I get to be home with my baby. It's the most amazing thing. Yeah. But, you know, I'll come to special stuff like the CMAs or I'm going to come to country radio seminar in March. And if I decide that I want to go and I want to go travel, they'll happily pay for it. And I can, but there's not the pressure to, if that makes sense. Right. Like if Sony, was like, all right, you've got these three shows and they're in, you know, Pennsylvania and you're going to go.
Speaker 1 (43:52.11)
and you're gonna go for those three days and then you're gonna come home and then you're gonna go and wait to go out on the next run. so, yeah. Yeah, just your kids are only little for so long. And yeah, we're really blessed. My parents and my in-laws come to visit us as much as they can. And if we were to call them, they would fly out as soon as possible. But it's really just my husband and I, we don't have a ton of help. And Scott's tail, and so we're doing a lot it on our own, but he's a physician and he works in his residency and he works 12 hour shifts.
Family gets older and you want to travel more?
Speaker 1 (44:20.405)
Every other month and so, know, he's in the hospital six days a week for 12 hours and so, you know those months when I did go back to work post-baby it was like All right. I'm flying out at 6 a.m. To try to make it to the East Coast by you know Two or three so I can get my hotel get to the dinner with radio to then take them to the show You know, I'm crossing three time zones to try to fly So I've got to try to find a nanny to be at my house for 13 hours for the day
$25 an hour. Yeah, I need to try to find a nanny to help me to be at my house for 12 hours 13 hours a day when my husband's at work because I have to be on the road and It's like you don't want somebody else raising your kids. You know, I mean, it's just like it just made me sad I was like gosh, I just want to be at home You know, and I think that you should travel and I think that you should you know have those experiences outside of being a mom But it just was hard. I was like we both were like this is hard. We're trying to make it work And so yeah now it's now it's the best of both worlds. It's like I make my she goes to my daughter Briar she goes to
school we call it, it's like daycare. In the mornings, Monday through Friday, so it's like I make my calls, I most of work in the morning. Yeah, and then I hang out with her in the afternoon. So it's been a blessing. For sure. I'm super happy.
Yeah, I was gonna say like your post I went back on your Facebook page just looking around I didn't go too deep but you I just recognized that after you had gotten let go from Sony your post was so it felt grateful and it felt Optimistic. Yeah, and I I thought that's an interesting place to be in but then now that you shared this story like it really makes sense that it was
Gosh, I don't even get on Facebook anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:52.31)
It was the closing of one great door, but it was the opening of a brand new adventure.
Like I said, everything happens for a reason. so, you know, just like how I got that first job in Nashville, it's like everything happens for a reason. I'm deep in my faith and believing that God has a plan for all of us and that we're all kind of led to be somewhere on this earth, right? And I just think that this is what was supposed to happen. And, you know, because like I said, I had been praying for a change for so long. I was like, I don't even know what the change looks like. I just know that this isn't working and I'm sad and I'm tired and I'm running myself to the ground. And I just, I need a change, but I don't know what that looks like. And I think, you know, like I said, I think the decision was made for me and this ended up working out.
so much better than anything I could have imagined. So I'm so grateful that these opportunities landed in my lap. I wasn't expecting them at all. Like I said, and I thought I was just going to work one and now I'm working three. And I've also done consulting on, like, know, promo for hire on a couple other tracks. Like I helped with Zach Topps push week to number one. I helped with the Lee Brice record for a while. I was on the Craig Campbell record for a while, you know, so I've, and I've done a couple others other than my long-term projects that I'm on. And so it's cool. can like turn down projects. can take on projects. can kind of just kind of
I'm in charge of my destiny, which is nice. I can control how much business I want to take on or not take on.
Well, I'm sure so glad because I really worked out for it. I mean, how crazy like I was thinking about that earlier. I was thinking like at that exact moment, I was just saying out loud, speaking it out that I want help. want guidance. I want mentorship. Yeah. And particularly in this area and in country music and in Nashville. Yeah. And I want to coach. I want people to help me. Yeah. And it just and then we got connected through.
Speaker 1 (47:03.596)
Yeah, we got to meet. We got to meet,
Speaker 1 (47:29.806)
It's so crazy. I think that's a god thing, right? Yes, absolutely. We got brought to each other's corners. Thank you, Nikki. Maybe thanks to my husband because it's his cousin, but I don't know.
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:42.518)
And thanks to my wife, my wife made a cold call because Nikki was on her website, her real estate website.
Well, Nikki saw that I got let go and then she reached out to me. like, what are you doing these days? Would you want to get into business coaching? And I was like, I don't know. I've never done, I don't know that I'm qualified to coach anybody, to be honest. I was like, maybe, tell me more about it. And so, you know, I talked with her and she's like, well, I've got this guy Wes, but I know nothing about music, but you do. So do you want to talk to him? And I was like, yeah, sure. It's like, I'll talk to him. Why not? And so, yeah, I'm so glad we were able to meet and that this whole podcast and everything came about, right? That's so cool. And you're killing it. And it's so fun.
I've had some friends that are like, I followed him, listened to that podcast, that's so cool. Super proud of you and everything that you've brought together with all this, it's so cool.
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's been great for just opening doors and the guy this morning we were talking about it and I was like it's just Like the connection that I can make with somebody in 45 minutes or an hour Oh, yeah, and it's really just them telling me about their life and their story But it's so rich in like just learning for me and lessons for me and then the connections Almost nine times out of ten blossom into some other connection that oh, yeah, there's now a network or
Life is one big network, It's like you're constantly networking. Always be closing, say. Chrome on sales road, always be closing, always be networking. You never know who you're going to meet and how that person could change your life.
Speaker 2 (48:56.372)
Yes. And like even...
Speaker 2 (49:03.054)
It's true, like even coming to town now, it's like I'm just building out my little friend group now to have dinners and have places to stay.
That's what I did. When I moved here, I didn't know a soul. When I moved here and got my job, I knew a couple people and that was it. And I ended up building a huge network. now this huge Nashville community is part of my story. And some of them are friends that I consider family that will be in my life forever. So you just never know. You never know who you're going to cross paths with and how they're going to change your life.
It's awesome. Well, I'm so excited for you for whatever that comes next.
Yeah, I'm just gonna ride it out. You know what I mean? I'm like, I got a good thing going, I'm gonna ride it out. know, obviously if some amazing opportunity comes up, I'll consider it. You know, I'm not like saying, I have to be doing this forever and I'm never gonna do anything else. But you for now it's great and it's providing for my family and it's doing everything that I need and it's fulfilling me in a different way. it's...
specifically fitting for literally your situation.
Speaker 1 (49:54.99)
Yeah, with where I'm right now, really, it's been really a blessing. So yeah, I'm gonna keep it going and I'm having fun too. It's fun, know, being your own boss and you know, kind of doing like the admin side of it. You know, I have to like do my taxes and I to keep track of my expenses. like, oh, I never did that before. What are taxes? No, I'm You know, so you have to like some of the admin stuff, know, QuickBooks and sending invoices. And I'm like, oh, cause you know, I'm kind of a nerd in that sense too. I like doing all that stuff. So it's been kind of fun. you know.
Building all that out. Yeah, building all that out and doing different stuff.
Awesome. Well, thank you. thanks for making
you. Happy CMA week. Sick baby. Excited for you to go to the show. It's going to be awesome. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see who wins. I'm going be watching it from my couch.
I'm stoked.
Speaker 2 (50:37.23)
You know what's funny? I was telling my wife this. I was telling my wife this. I'm like, I have been so focused on these like days leading up to the show and just like how I'm gonna be at the show. Like I've just been thinking, like envisioning all this stuff. It didn't even occur to me to look at the lineup of who's gonna be.
Who's performing and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. They always have great performances, but.
This is like a little miniature music festival. This is like a great, you know.
it's so The whole week is great. Nashville's buzzing. But yeah, CMA week will always hold a special place in my heart. Yeah, so my husband and I, when we were like talking, right? You have to talk before you officially date. These days, right? Talking. We were talking for a few months. And I was still living here and I needed a date to the CMA Awards. So I was like, hey, do want to come and be my date to the CMA Awards? We've got the after party, we've got all this stuff. And he was like, sure. And so yeah, we started dating CMA night. Wow. 2017. What's my math there?
Is that eight years ago? Yeah. Yeah, we started dating this week eight years ago. So CMAs will always hold a special place in my heart because that was kind of like when my now husband and I became official. Yes, that was the beginning. Oh, it was just so much fun, like going to the after parties and seeing everybody and it's such a fun time of year to be in town. yeah, good for you. Enjoy it. Do have a new outfit to wear to the show? I do. Nice.
Speaker 2 (51:45.74)
I'm excited. I'm excited to get out tonight.
Speaker 2 (51:51.982)
We went to the mall, we walked past Buckle and it's like a suit hybrid. Sport coat. when we walked past Buckle, like, Buckle? What the, I haven't been here in like 15 years.
Are you wearing a suit? sport coat.
Speaker 1 (52:05.23)
It like the only store we had in my hometown of Emporia, Kansas. was like Buckle and Maurice's and Bath and Body Works. At our mall.
I was like, look, they have some like kind of western wear. I'm like, let's just go in here look. And the young...
Buckles Western now? used to be like the Ed Hardy like affliction.
Oh, it's divide. mean, they're still, have all of that. And I, that's not my style, but they had like some like Western type, like I like to cover. But I'm like, they had some of that going on, but the, people are like the people working there came out and they were so like helpful and talking. They were like, well, what about this? And I told them when I was going, didn't, I said I was going to an event. And, but they just helped me like figure it out. And my wife was there it was just like, I'm like, we're rocking the buckle.
I love to go
Speaker 1 (52:46.974)
Outfit so nobody will know it's for buckle who cares. Yeah, yeah, I'm like it and you feel good who cares. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so good for you. Yeah, that's exciting Yeah, no, you'll have a blast and yeah, the words are great. It's always fun to see You know when you had an artist in the game, was like, gosh I remember those two years that Luke one entertainer of the year was so fun because with after parties afterwards and everybody like rage I can't had so much fun and celebrate but it's a milestone and it's fun to celebrate your your wins, you yes
Yeah, thanks. We'll see what comes of it.
Speaker 1 (53:15.032)
There's so many people involved when it comes to that, like management, publishers, everybody, label, everybody that's involved when an artist wins. It's so exciting. It should be.
I got to see some of the plaques, some of the gold, diamond, the make-wake and all, like it's just the whole thing is just, it's mostly Luke Holmes.
yeah, the certification.
Speaker 1 (53:34.568)
yeah, he's incredible. He's the nicest guy, the nicest guy ever. He's the same guy he was when he got signed and first came to Nashville 10 years ago. He's amazing.
What a good ingredient for just a long-term career is being a good person.
yeah, yeah. And I think just in life, being a good person will get you far. Never forget where you came from, right? Yes. It's important.
Alright, gotta get you to the airport.
Head to the airport. But yeah, thanks for having me on. was my first podcast. I've never had a podcast before. yeah, it's cool. I've chalked it off my bucket list. So great. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (54:01.837)
out of the park.
Speaker 2 (54:07.788)
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (54:16.972)
Hey, thank you for listening to the show this week. Visit everybodyelsepodcast.com to learn more about this show, including a list of past guests and previous episodes. You can find me on Instagram at Wes Luttrell, where I post my own work, including activities related to this show. And you can also find the show on Instagram at everybody else podcast. This show is self-produced and hosted by me, Wes Luttrell, with artwork by Ethan Douglas and music by Jim Neuer.
I'm grateful that you spent a little time this week listening to our podcast and learning more about the invisible people out dedicating their lives to making music happen. I'll be back again soon.
Speaker 2 (55:04.206)
Everybody else is a production of the Midwest Music.