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Transform your preaching with SermonCraft! We interview some of today's best communicators to learn their secrets to captivating talks. Say goodbye to endless prep. Find your voice. Master your message.
Every episode is like a masterclass. Are you ready to revolutionize your sermons? Tune in to SermonCraft – where the art of preaching is made practical and tactical.
This is a podcast for communicators who teach regularly and want to become better and more confident in the art and craft of preaching.
We interview some of today's best communicators about their unique processes, habits, and secrets of turning a blank page into a captivating talk so that you can stop wasting valuable time in sermon prep, find your unique voice, and use the gift that God has given you with excellence and joy.
Join us as we unpack the concepts that helped us the most. Are you ready to change your approach to teaching?
Curtis: Me and my girlfriend broke up. I went through a horrible summer of oh seven, was like rock bottom for me.
Mm-Hmm. So we came from the same background. So she started reaching out to me and was just like, Hey, you know I mean, she was not trying to date anybody. Yeah. She like, I mean, she walked in church, one person walked out another. Yeah. We've shared her story before. Abortion was a, it's during, yeah, it's during that big part of her story and, and man, so she just started inviting me to church with her. Yeah. And I grew up gonna church. I was in church every Sunday, but it was this Methodist church that and really I was just like, man, my parents church is boring and you're super hot, so might as well go to church with you. Yeah. And I wish mine was like, walk in, one person, walk out another, but mine it took some time.
Painful. Six months of like Yeah. [00:02:00] Literal checklists and like yeah man, it was, it was a long six months. Yeah. Finally gave my life to Christ. That, so my wife is the one that led me to Christ. We ended up getting, oh, gosh. Engaged about six months later. Yeah. Got married about six months after that.
Felt called to ministry about six months into marriage, so yeah. Yeah. She, she was not trying to date anybody. Like Jesus was her boyfriend. Yeah. Was kind of her. Yeah. But we kinda started dating somewhere in there, and she also broke up with me like three times.
Chase: Do you have a similar story? I met the summer of oh five.
Was my rock bottom. Yeah. So I grew up in church, went to Liberty University. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And then started drinking, and then just hit rock bottom and then called a mentor was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Told him everything.
He kinda mentored me through it, but met Jenny that January Huh? In oh six and I was like. And she didn't want any part of that. Yeah. And I was like, but I want that. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, so I'll stop. And we won our first date in February. Told her dad, I loved her in March. We [00:03:00] were engaged that fall and then we got married in March.
Yeah. Yeah. Same thing, man.
Curtis: That's what, even when like, man, what, even when I legit like got saved I mean, she broke up me after that and was like, you know, I'm still number one in your life. Yeah. Like God's number two, God's a means to an end. Yeah. And then the worst part I'll never forget, we're standing in my parents' driveway and.
She just said, you know, if we're dating. For, for a Christian dating should have marriage in mind, at least at this stage. Yeah. Where, and she said, and in marriage, a man's supposed to lead his wife spiritually. And she said, spiritually, all you do is drag me down right now. Okay. And so she said, until you're ready to lead, don't call me.
It's true, but it hurts. It's true. I went to lifeway and bought, like, I literally was like, is there like a men's leadership section? How to lead a wife? Yeah. And I, I mean, I found some book, actually, it's funny, we went back to my parents' house this summer and I, I saw it. I mean, it was, I mean it was probably hor, I don't know, it was some book called What God Does When Men Lead.
Yeah. And it just like wrecked me. Yeah. And I'm sure, I don't think it was the most, you know, in depth book or Yeah. It wasn't some epiphany. It was just like, this is what it's called. So Yeah. The first time
Chase: [00:04:00] hearing it. Yeah. Man. Well, yeah, she was actually in, well I heard your sermon on Jesus' interaction with a woman at the well.
Yeah. And I actually had to look online this morning. I was like, it was probably a year or two ago. It was in 2019. Yeah. Like before Covid. But we were. In 20 20, 20 21, we were spending a lot of time in John, so I was just perusing how do people do series and stuff. I'm like, oh, I know Curtis. 'cause we kind of crossed paths.
Yeah, we've been in the same room a lot, for sure. Yeah. But I'm like, well, I wonder how I handled this talk. And then so I listened to it and got sucked in. And it's not the shortest message, right? No, it's like a 45, 47.
Curtis: Yeah. I mean, we shared my wife's story. Yeah. That was part of it. And then we wanted to make sure just given the, you know, the, the.
Nature of the topic. Yeah. Given abortion, we wanted to give people some like clear action steps. And so it was a little longer
Chase: and I listened to it and I could just kind of tell this is something that had been in your heart. Mm-Hmm. And you said it on stage, but for like a year or two. Yep. And I stepped, [00:05:00] actually flagged it.
There's like 10 or 15 sermons. I'm like, man, this is like the pinnacle of God. God clearly speaking through a human, you know, not like, not like charismatic personality or this dude knows how to work a crowd, but like. There's some holy moments here, you know? So I flagged it. And just the patience you probably had to have.
'cause you're probably like jd, who's the, the lead teaching pastor at your church? Man, you could have done that two years ago, you know, but you waited and you spent the time to kind of craft it. And you're also in a position I was telling you as you walked in. Well, probably most of the people listening in are where you don't preach every single weekend.
Mm-Hmm. You know so there's the campus pastor, there's the person that helps out with programming or helps out with counseling or helps out with, right. Who knows? But you still get the awesome opportunity to preach five to 10 times a year. Mm-Hmm. Maybe at different campuses as well. We've tried that out.
And that's where I was for years and years and years. And so I went from that to a church planner where I was 52 weeks a year. Yeah. I'm like, man, this is horrible. And then went back [00:06:00] to being a campus pastor to where I only had five or 10 times a year. And I'm like, man, there's some beauty in this season and it's great.
And I was telling you there's some weekends 'cause I'm down probably to 25, 30 weeks a year now, but there's some weeks I'm like, I would love four or five weeks off. A month off. Yeah. So I want to pick your brain about that. And you're, you play heavily in. Sermon series and planning those out and the whole programming team.
Yeah. Like kind of, yeah.
Curtis: So my like, quote unquote, Monday through Friday Uhhuh is I over help you know, I work with the team that oversees kind of weekend services Yeah. And events. And so my history with, you know, our lead pastor, pastor jd, I, I mean I started out as an unpaid intern. Yeah. You know, I think everyone at Summit
Chase: starts out Right.
Curtis: I was unpaid intern then. I was like paid intern, which was, you know, like gas money basically. Yeah. And then literally like five hour employee, 10, 15, 20, 25, 29. And so, it's been, it's been funny. But yeah, part of that is helping, you know, man, what do our people need? We try to balance the, you know, what, what, what has God laid on our hearts [00:07:00] or Pastor J's heart uhhuh verse, what do our people need At the same time, it's not just about what, you know, we want to give them, it's what, what do they need to receive at a time?
And so we, we try to find a good balance of. Our MO which, you know, our, I mean our own mission statement's following the Holy Spirit and we take that Yeah. You know, even when it comes to the sermon series, but we very much try to do at least rhythm of like two just two series, three books of the Bible and then one topical.
Yeah. Is kind of our rhythm. But right now we've per year or like
Chase: per semester,
Curtis: man, they go just in general. So it could be a three week series, it could be a, you know, 30 week series judges. Yeah. 68 weeks. Romans was, you know, entire year. Yeah. Yeah. If not longer. And so. But just in general that, that's kind of a, but I mean, right now I think we're in one that, I think we're probably on our sixth book in a row.
Yeah. Like, I can't remember last time we did a straight up, like topical. Yeah. Now we've done one-offs. Of course. Yeah. Here and there. I mean, I did a one-off on baptism a couple weeks ago. Yeah. But it was the right time
Chase: for it, so yeah. Yeah, we kind of do [00:08:00] both. I love going through the book 'cause it's easy.
It's like, that's so much better. I know what I'm gonna preach on next books better. Yeah. It's like I don't have to pick the text. Everything's right there. And then topical. You would think topical would be easy 'cause you're just talking to what you, but it's so much harder to, yes. Find a text and usually the text.
Does not say everything you want to say. Yes. And it adds this weird detail that you're like, well, I have to address it. Right. But, and then you learn stuff, you know, it's better, but it just takes so much longer. Right. Well, let's start, before we get there, let when did you know that you were called to preach?
Curtis: Yeah. So, or to the ministry in general? Man, I shared a little bit of my story. You know, short version. My wife, we were not married at the time. She's the one that led me to Christ. Right. We knew each other pre Jesus days. She leads me to Christ. She gets saved, leads me to Christ. We end up getting engaged, getting married about six months into marriage.
Man, this is gonna sound like I made this up. We were I mean I had no intentions of going in ministry. That was not it. Mm-Hmm. We were at a Hillsong concert Yeah. In Atlanta. Yeah. It was this outdoor venue. [00:09:00] I mean, probably, gosh, probably 50,000 people. And we were under this overhang and it was pouring rain.
So just imagine like hillsong's up there singing. Yeah, it's pouring rain. I could not, there wasn't like a call to ministry. Yeah. You know, it wasn't some like Clayton King has God called you into evangelist type? I don't remember if they were singing. I don't remember if some Australian guy was talking and I, you know, just got emotional.
I just remember sitting down at this concert and man, just feeling like it was me and, and God just saying, I'm calling you into ministry. Yeah. I'm calling you to be a pastor and I'm calling you to preach. Yeah. And what's funny is we had a guy with this, me and my wife, and a buddy of mine who had gotten saved about the same time I did.
And we, I didn't say anything to my wife right. Then we dropped him off and, I mean, my buddy got outta the car, he shut the door and I looked at my wife, my, you know, wife of six months Yeah. And said, Hey, so I need to tell you something. I think God's calling me into ministry. Yeah. And she just smiled and she said, I know.
And we had some mentors, a couple named Jerry and Kathy, older couple. She said, I told Jerry [00:10:00] probably about six months ago. Yeah. And he was a counselor. He said, well, don't tell Curtis like you're not the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Like, let God. And so, you know, did what I tell every young guy to do, which is, Hey, you think you have an idea what God's called you to?
Yeah. Just go say yes to as many things as you can. Yeah. When you're a young. You know, no kids, no huge responsibilities. Like man, do as many things as you can. And that's what I did. And, you know, over the course of five, 10 years, man Lord just continued to affirm that. Mm-Hmm. I remember, I remember doing a couple disciple now weekends Yeah.
Just as a counselor and was like, maybe I could do youth ministry. Yeah. But I also had like high school senior boys. And then I remember having a group of sixth grade and I was like, nah, this ain't for me. Like I'm not,
Chase: do you remember your first sermon
Curtis: that you ever gave? My first sermon was actually at the church.
I got saved at Uhhuh. Had a college ministry that was kind of up and coming. Yeah. And they asked me to preach Uhhuh and I just got done reading a book by Watchman Knee. Oh yeah. And it was some book on Romans. Yeah. Loving not the world love. Not the world, I think. And you know, basically it was just like, man, this impacted me.
I'm gonna take this. [00:11:00] My first sermon was an hour and 14 minutes. This is not a joke. Yeah. An hour and 14 minutes. Yeah. And I haven't listened to it and gosh, but one guy got saved. Yeah. Look that, which was actually this guy that, that day I was at Publix getting a pub sub and he was the guy and I said, Hey man we got to talking.
I said, I'd love to invite you to this college thing I'm doing tomorrow night. Just a random guy. And came random dude. And, I mean hour and 14 minutes locked in. Yeah. And then he beelined it to me after. Yeah. And said, Hey, can we go chat? And I remember though, I clear as you and I sitting here Yeah. I remember sitting in, you know, tiny little youth chairs sitting with him.
Yeah. And man walking him through kind of Romans road. That's crazy. He gave his lights to Christ. He's gotta pray with him. I'm like, man, God can even use Yeah. 90 minutes. Oh yeah. Just horrible
Chase: sermons. That's how my first sermon was. I heard a youth pastor like a few. Months prior, talked through every event of Jesus's crucifixion.
Yes. And then we were really involved in the youth group. And so which really lends itself
Curtis: to like 30 [00:12:00] minutes, right? Yes. Yeah.
Chase: So I had a friend who went to a different youth group. I'm like, can I come speak? And I was like, probably a junior in high school. Mm-Hmm. And it was, it was probably 57 minutes of me going, but it was just, yeah, it's weird.
It was complete. I was stealing someone else's sermon and passing it off for sure. That was my own, but really at that age. You're passionate about what's changed your life, you know? Right. And you just have a burden. There's a beauty to it. Yeah. There's a burden to tell other people now. I think as we grow, you, you learn your voice and stuff.
Who, who actually helped you, kind of mentor you in preaching early on, and even today? Have you had
Curtis: some preaching mentors? Yeah. I mean, working backwards, you know, my, my lead pastor JD Greer has, yeah. Nobody even comes close. Yeah. I mean, jd, I interned with him for. It, it's still kind of the joke that I'm kind of, you know, once an intern, always an intern.
Yeah. But I mean, for the better part of five years I was with him every weekend. That's when we did five services a weekend. Yeah. Was part of the process of looking at the sermon throughout the week? Yeah. Being part of reviewing it after the first service. [00:13:00] You know, he, he gave me opportunities and when I would speak anywhere, he'd say, Hey, send me your sermon.
Like, send me your message. Yeah. And he would give very detailed. You know, if you've ever heard of the grid, like there's general and specific and then positive, negative feedback, uhhuh, and we tend to give very, you know, general. Feedback. Yeah. So we'll say, Hey man, that was great. Like great job. What we don't tend to do is say, here's the three things that made it great.
Like specific. Yeah. Or negative, you know, we tend to give kinda like, Hey, I don't think that connected. Yeah. Well why? And J D's just phenomenal about that. Like even with him, if I'm, yeah. With people he trust and, and knows like if he comes off stage, I'm like, Hey man, that was really good. He's like, what part about was really good?
Yeah. Like where, and that's not to puff his own ego. He's like, I need to know where to, where was the spirit speaking where? Or if I'll be like, Hey, I don't think, you know, in 0.2, I don't know if that connected. He's like, why, what? What part of it didn't connect, like, help me like he wants. Positive or negative?
Specific. Yeah. Yeah. And he's also an Enneagram eight, so he doesn't mind giving it. Yeah. You know, my wife is also, Lord has surrounded me with people [00:14:00] that are very candid in their feedback. So nobody even comes close, holds a candle. You know, pastor jd working backwards, you know, I mean, I got saved and was in seminary within two years.
I didn't have a huge theological underpinning necessarily. So Tony Marita. Was just you. I took him for sermon delivery. Tony's to this day, I tell young guys, I'm like, man, you wanna know how to just put together a sermon? Yeah. Tony Marita there. There's few better than Tony just to say he, he's gonna mine the best out of every text.
He's gonna show you how to plow that trough to Christ by the end. Yeah. How the gospels, you know, applies to your life. Tony's phenomenal, but, you know, man as far as like distant mentors Yeah. People you just kinda look up to. This is gonna sound crazy. I got saved at a real interesting time.
Megachurch was, you know, megachurch in the sense of build the one giant thing was kind of on the decline. Multi-site was on the right rise. Yeah. That's, I got saved right in the middle of that. So when I got saved I [00:15:00] mean the, the guys who were kind of up and coming were your Plat Chandler, Driscoll fur.
Yeah. MacArthur I mean, talk
Chase: about a, oh, MacArthur probably wasn't up and coming. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, we were
Curtis: hearing about him. Those were the guys that. I mean, funny enough, jd, the first time I heard him was he preached at Elevation. Yeah. And they were doing a series called Cow Tipping, which was like, you know, can you be a Christian who watches rated our movies and smokes cigarettes and drives A BMW?
And they brought him in for, I never heard of him. Yeah. And you know, how could loving God send someone to Hell who's never heard of Jesus? Yeah. And he crushed. And I was like, who is this guy? Yeah. And so I looked him up. But yeah, so I mean, those were the guys I'd listened to for better, for worse. Oh yeah, you, but I think one of the things the Lord has done, I, I tell young guys this is, is he helped me learn how to, you know, eat the meat and spit out the bones.
Yeah. There's a lot you can learn theologically if you don't run with whatever your verdicts and Juda Smiths and man, nobody tells a story better than Juda Smith. I completely,
Chase: that's why this podcast is supposed to [00:16:00] be tribeless. Like I actually, I purposely, probably a few years ago, three or four years ago.
I said, I'm gonna listen to dudes that I've never Mm-Hmm. Because I grew up the same way. I remember my Matt Chandler sermon playlist on the first gen iPod, you know? Yeah. Like going through Luke and listening to it when I first got married and stuff. And a few years ago I was like, man, let me listen to these folks that are completely outta my tribe.
That's a different tradition. They even grew up in, even people I don't theologically agree with. And mm-Hmm. I think there's a difference. There's the theological training and, but there's master communicators all and comics the same way I listen to a lot of comics for how they Yeah, yeah, yeah. Start and how they end.
And I won't tell you who, 'cause I'm still a pastor. Yeah. But but just connecting with the audience I went to. This is so, so weird. You ever heard of a Prairie Home Companion Uhhuh from NPR? No. So old school radio show. It used to be called, live something as when it changed. GK was a part of kind of the Me Too movement.
[00:17:00] Unfortunately, the guy, Garrison Keeler. But I went to go see them live and he would just tell these stories from Lake Wobegon and he's like a 70-year-old man. And I'm, it's NPR, I'm surrounded by 70 year olds as well. I'm the, I'm like the youngest by far, but he held the attention of the room right. For like 35 minutes and it was the auditorium size and it's like, so yeah.
That's, that's cool. You, you can listen to Yeah. As I encourage that. Listen to people outside
Curtis: your tribe stuff. Yeah. I'm captivated by just good. Homiletics good oratory skills. Yeah. Just, yeah. And that's, I, I, I want people to read and listen widely. Yeah. Man, you, you, you, you know, they talk about, you know, with like an athlete, like what's the best, A best athlete Yeah.
Like, like the Kobe Bryant mentality. Yeah. And the LeBron James, you know, athleticism and the Michael Jordan, like, you know Yeah. Kind of piece it together. The, you know, Steph Curry shooting arm. I'm like, that's what, like, dude, you wanna know how to do a good intro? Go listen to Andy Stanley. Yeah. Listen to the first five minutes.
Yeah. Everything he teaches, you're gonna be like, I need to listen to this. The tension. Yeah. I don't know why this is gonna make my life [00:18:00] better. Yeah. And you know, now what you do with the rest, take it or leave it. Oh, that's, yeah. Eat the meat, spit out the bones with whoever. But man, listen, read widely would be yeah.
If I had any advice for young guys, it'd be that and, and learn how to discern that without losing your theological convictions, obviously. Yeah. So, and
Chase: eventually you find your voice, you know, for sure. Because there's. Early on, I would say what I, I call it chunking. So I'd be like very early on where I'm like, oh, Chandler talks to that.
And Piper talked to that, and Stanley talked to that. And really it was chunks of other people's thoughts. Yep. And actually, so my context of my church, definitely a lot of Christians, but people from lots of different denominations and then any, any given day, I mean, we're gonna have a lot of people that this is their first time in church or, yeah.
Baby Christians. So I actually get really uncomfortable standing in front of a room of pastors. I'm like, this is not my normal deal. Like, I need some people just smoking outside and coming in. Yeah. And like, you know, accidentally cussing when they're talking to me. Yeah. That's what I need. But early on, one of my good [00:19:00] friends, his son poked him and said, why is he yelling at me so much?
You know? Yeah. Because I was impersonating Chandler. Yep. And slowly I've learned it's just rep after rep after rep. How long was it until you found out your voice?
Curtis: Man, I so. I got saved in oh eight. Yeah. Preached my first, my first like, so I preached a college, my first Sunday morning sermon wasn't until 14.
Yeah. Actually Ryan Brooks, one of our, our church players out in Hillsborough. And so I've been preaching less than 10 years. Mm-Hmm. I would say in the last two years. Yeah. I have found. And, and so I say that I've felt like I did for a while. Mm-Hmm. Again, my wife, who is one of easily God's greatest gift to me on this, you know, this side of heaven.
And one of the gifts she gives me is candid feedback. Yeah. And it's really been the last two years where she'll say, you know, I that was you. Yeah. Up to, up to that point, she'd be like, there's sections that are you. And she wouldn't have the, the language to say it. You know, somebody like a JD [00:20:00] would be like.
Hey, I could tell that part of your sermon. Yeah. You got that. Like, I don't know if that was the illustration you got from Yeah. You know Chandler, but you sound like Chandler. Mm-Hmm. Or that part sounded heady. You got that from Keller, didn't you? Yeah. Or that part was a good story. Did you get that from Fer?
Like it was like stuff like that, you know, where he could actually point out. 'cause he's in the Evangelical bubble, right? Oh yeah, yeah. My wife and
Chase: if you look at his, because I have access to his, a lot of his sermons in the past and his research DataBank, he gives it to church planners. Yep. And a lot of times I'm like, 'cause the research is there and then you see JD sermon and he, you can see pieces of the research there.
So that's how he thinks through it as well, you know? For sure. So yeah, it takes a long time Yeah. To find.
Curtis: Yeah. I mean, you're talking almost a decade of preaching. Yeah. Yeah. And
Chase: I did it just last year, we actually went through, Daniel and I have a very unique voice. I mean, the guy. You know Chris Poplar at your church as well?
Oh yeah. Like he said, he would just come to Asheville and be like, you're so different. You're just weird. Yeah. And I'm like, I know. But we went through, no, it was first Peter and I was listening to some guys on first [00:21:00] Peter and I got a little bit into the culture war aspect. Yeah. I kind of cro like something that I wasn't that comfortable saying and the guys on my teaching team knew it.
Mm-Hmm. And they're like, 'cause we actually do a run through before I actually get up there. Yep. And thankfully they spoke like that, that was not you at all. But it takes so many years. Yeah. Not just for you to learn, but for the people that are close to you. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so much different when you do something completely in your own voice.
Man, as opposed
Curtis: to if you had I think it's the greatest preaching book of the last 10 years. Yeah. Yancy Arrington's preaching that moves people. Yeah. Is funny enough, I recommended it to jd. He read it and then like a month later he text me, he's like, Hey, have you heard of this book? It's incredible.
Thanks. Check your text buddy. Oh, right. Jason Gaston's actually the one that recommended it. Yeah. I mean, phenomenal book. One of the things he talks about is. You know, as preachers, we spend so much time trying to focus on the things that are our weaknesses. Yeah. I mean, really if we would just press into our strengths.
Yeah. And so, like, if you're not a funny guy, dude, don't try to be funny. Yeah. [00:22:00] Like, just leave it because it's awkward. Yeah. Like, you're not funny. Yeah. You know, if you're not a, you know, phenomenal storyteller. Yeah. Man. Tell the story as good as the text tells it. Yeah. Like get a little better, but man, lean into your strengths.
Yeah. Like, you know, Tim Keller's. He doesn't have a huge emotional bandwidth. No. Right. And so he doesn't try to have that. Yeah. It would be weird. It would be disingenuine. Mm-Hmm. And just that there's like freedom in that to understand man, this is who God has, God has made me. Yeah. And one of the things in that book he says, he says, you know, it's better to give your people a good version of you.
Right. And a bad version of somebody else. So good. And I'm like, yes, that's, and it's taken me a long time I think to figure that out and to some degree we'll probably be figuring it out for the rest of our lives. Right. Yeah. I think.
Chase: It, it comes back to that, that sermon that you did at the woman at the Well, that was just God had placed that message in your heart.
Mm-Hmm. Now it's hard to, I have a few like that. There's two or three I haven't shared yet. Yeah. And, and they've been five, 10 years in the making. Yeah. So you can't do that every weekend. I know. [00:23:00] But there is something too, I think my best sermons are where it's just me in the text and I actually, I'll consult a commentary if I'm like, I don't know what this word, like Chaldeans in the book of Daniel.
I'm like, is that a race? Is that a job? I don't
Curtis: know. I have to look it up. Is is it like, it's like a Strom Bowl. Yeah, but not,
Chase: yeah. But the more I spend time alone with the text and just me, and that's the bulk of it. Yeah. And I use other people to help kind of just add the, the sprinkles on top where it used to be.
I think. Early on, everyone is the bulk is someone else. Yeah. And you use yourself. Yep. Well, take me through, take me through, let's say, Hey, JD comes, I want you to preach, I don't know, on some certain topic, or here's the text we're gonna be in. How do you go from a blank page? Yeah. To actually crafting something like this?
Yeah. Because all my guests bringing a manuscript, so. I was telling Joe, our our engineer, that you, I think preachers are like, they have coaching trees, so like Mm-Hmm. The JD coaching tree. You [00:24:00] can actually see the outlines are very similar. Right. And people that come from. My church, we have the exact same mountain line as well.
But how do you go from something blank to something that looks
Curtis: like this? Yeah. Man, you hit some of it pro probably early on I would immediately go find, you know, five sermons that people would preach like that. Yeah. And almost start there. Yeah. And I just realized there's a time and a place for that.
Mm-Hmm. Especially starting early on, but. It sounds super spiritual stay, but man, just starting the text. Yeah. And so I make it a habit. I don't mind integrating, so if I'm preaching on something that's my quiet time. Yeah. Like, oh yeah. Any quiet time plan. I'm on reading plan. Yeah. It takes a backseat for two weeks.
I'm so glad
Chase: you said that. 'cause there's some guys that are like, man. Don't use your quiet time for sermon prep. And I'm like, that's all I use my quiet time
Curtis: for. Yeah. Now I mean, there, there's a danger of, you know, intaking only to put back out. Right. But early on in, actually in seminary, I remember David Platt came and spoke and up to that point, that's what I had believed.
People were like, you cannot use your quiet time to do any type of sermon [00:25:00] prep because you're only thinking about how you're gonna use this for somebody else. And you know, quiet time needs to be about filling you up and your time with the Lord. I remember Plat just saying. Nah, man, whatever I'm preaching, that's my quiet time.
Yeah. And it was like freeing for me Uhhuh. Now you can veer you, you know, you gotta know your own personality. Yeah. So it just becomes my quiet time. I read it. If I, you know, if the book's short enough, I read the entire book. Yeah. The first few times. If not, man, the Bible project, YouTube videos are the greatest things on the face of the planet.
Yes. For getting overall context. Those posters, man. Yeah. Yeah. At minimum reading the entire chapter, even if I'm only preaching on a few verses, just over and over, just immersing myself in that text. Yeah. And I wanna start just by making, yeah. What are my general observations? So, when I became a Christian, my wife and I got ushered into it's one of the greatest gifts we've ever been given an inductive Bible study.
Yeah. On Wednesday nights. I mean, you're talking brand new Christians and we get pushed in this with the colored pencils and everything. Colored pencils. K Arthur, like Yeah. Obs, you know, OIA observation interpretation [00:26:00] application. Yeah. Who, what, where, why, when, how context is king. Yeah. You know, interpret harder versus with easier ones.
And so that, that's still to this day, the beginning of my sermon prep, I break it up line by line. Yeah. Like I literally type out whatever I'm the, the text Yeah. And break it up verse by verse, and I'm just making observations. Mm-Hmm. You know, basic Bible study. If I were teaching a, you know, small group, how would I teach through this?
And that's how I'm breaking up looking for themes. Then I'm going to, then I'm starting to
Chase: reference what, what are you looking for when you do that? Because yeah, I mean, repeated words, that's something you learn in like the first year, right? But that's. Honestly, probably 80% of my sermons are like, oh my gosh, this is repeated three times.
This is obviously the theme.
Curtis: Yeah. I, you know Luther said the famous, you know, to progress in the gospel is always to begin again. Yeah. It's never to go beyond it. Like, you just keep going deeper. And
Chase: so are you, are you looking for the one theme? Are you looking for
Curtis: outline? So I'm looking for, yeah. I, I think one of my roles, [00:27:00] one of my desires in my preaching uhhuh is that you should be able to listen to my sermon.
Mm-Hmm. Go to lunch with somebody who did not listen to my sermon. Yeah. And let's say I preached on whatever first Peter you said, and that person comes to lunch who didn't listen and say, Hey, I've been reading first Peter, do you understand what. Help me understand. Yeah. And that you'd be able to like teach it to them.
Yeah. Like I, I want, so in my preaching, I want to help people understand how to read the Bible for themselves. That's good. Is part of that, so yeah, common themes I mean if you look at my a finalized sermon outline, which, you know, you have one right in front, front of me. Yeah. I'm a word for word guide, but at the top I always put like text.
Title where I'm preaching. And then I use, this is a Tony Marita thing. Yeah. So I told you M-P-T-N-P-S Uhhuh main point of the text. Okay. So I'm trying to summarize, yeah. Whatever I'm preaching, what is the main point of this text? Yep. In one or two sentences, what is the main point? Yep. Then MPS is main point of my sermon.
Yep. In one sentence, can I summarize the main point of my sermon? That's so good. Yeah. So [00:28:00] the hope there is, you know, if the main point of my sermon does not support the main point of the text, then what I'm preaching is not actually the text. Right. And then, you know, it just, man, it becomes really easy for me.
'cause then if I do have points, let's say I have four points, whatever. Yeah. You just keep working backwards. Okay. Does this point. Does 0.2. Yeah. Support the main point of my sermon. Yeah. Which is, should support the main point of the text so it ensures even my points are coming out of the text. Yeah.
And then that's one of the easiest ways to figure out what you need to cut in the end is like, man, this is so good. But this does not support the main point of my sermon. Like it's not, and usually what makes a sermon go from good to great is not what you add. It's usually what you cut out.
Chase: This has been mentioned dozens of times on this podcast.
Curtis: Oh. It's one of the hardest things to do. It is, I
Chase: call it Wednesdays is my cutting day. Yep. So it's like, I call it killing my babies. Like it's just like, oh yeah, I spent so much time killing your darlings. That's, yeah. And I don't even save them for later anymore. I take that giant dry erase marker and I'm like, Nope, I can't do it.
'cause we're on a, we're on a very strict time limit too. Mm. So I gotta hit 31, 32 at the max. Yeah. Some guys [00:29:00] can't do it 'cause they can't cut.
Curtis: Nope. They're, that's where you mentioned Chris Lardo. Yeah. So he's like one of my right hands. He's a midweek. I send my sermon. Yeah. And one of the things I always tell him is, Hey, show me I need to cut two pages.
Tell me where I can cut. Yeah. And dude, it's painful because he'll go in. There's been times he's highlighted an entire point. Yeah. And just put like, meh. Yeah. Cut. And I'm like, whatcha talking about? That's the best part of the sermon. And he's like, it doesn't serve what you're trying to do. Yeah. But when you're in it, you know, it's hard to zoom out.
Yeah. And so to get some of that just unemotional feedback from somebody that's just like, man, this doesn't serve what you're trying to, what you're trying to say here, get rid of it, is really helpful. So
Chase: you go through this process of rereading reading and rereading the text, then the main point of the text, then the main point of the sermon.
Which is kind of, you know, easier to do in a sermon series or, you know, what's been spoken of before and after. You know, I don't wanna step on the toes of the next guy, or it's helpful to remind people what happened last week. Yeah, yeah. But, and so [00:30:00] you, you kind of get like, and there's unique, there's one truth that the text says there's different ways to apply it and stuff, so then you just go through with that main point of the sermon.
Yeah. And you just go through the text and find the things that serve that point.
Curtis: Yeah, I mean, it's kinda like, you know, it's a diamond, right? Yeah. There's one diamond. That's the main point of the text. You can look at it from different angles, different facets get different facets. My, like if I showed you I should have, I should have showed you.
So I just have two templates. You asked how you go from a blank page. Yes. I have a sermon notes template. Yeah. And a sermon template. Okay. And so my template has literally like these fonts, these colors like title Yep. Text. So it just gives me a baseline to start with. Yep. Again, Chris Poplar, who's a PhD and a published author I, he gives this writing cohort Yeah.
Teach people how to write and one of the things when he's talks about writer's block. That there's some value to literally start, like just to start like instead of the blinking cursor. Yeah. He'll start. This is supposed to be my first sentence. Yeah. Period. This is my second sentence. Yeah. I wish I had an And just the act of doing that.
Chase: Piper says when he talks about writing [00:31:00] books, he's like, sometimes I have an idea and I have no idea, but I don't try to work it out in my head. I try to work it out on the page. Right? Yep. So I just start typing. I don't know, how is this connected to this idea? Maybe it's this, this, this. Yeah. And slowly you're like, oh, there's 70% of the chapter.
I didn't even
episode_2_raw-synced-video-cfr_riverside_0004: know
Curtis: it was there. Yeah. So my notes, I have like a notes template Yeah. That's laid out with and I'll go find links and commentaries. If you can send that for me. We'll put it in the notes. Yeah. Yeah. The show notes of the show. And I have a giant list of pastors, preachers, teachers Yeah.
Theologians that I look at. And I think about it, think about it almost like doing laundry. Mm-Hmm. Like my notes stuff is, it's like dumping 10 loads of laundry on the bed. Yeah. And then what I'm trying to do in that is literally just sort it. Yeah. You know, it's overwhelming as a pile. Yeah. Like, here's shirts, here's socks.
Yeah. Here's kid clothes. Like, you know, and then I'm starting to pick out like, okay, that's, that's a good theme. I like that. I like that. And then I'm taking, so then I'll pull up notes and like all my notes and then my blank sermon. Yes. And then I'm like moving stuff. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then crafting it, putting it in my words.
[00:32:00] Yeah. And, you know, do you, mine's pretty methodical. Like
Chase: Yeah, mine's kind of too, and there is an art to it. It's when you start to put it in your own words. Right. And well first off, do you, do you pre-research? 'cause I have a I have a notes file where I know the 30 next sermons that I'm coming up with.
And probably multiple times a day I'll, let me just research that. How does this person, and I'll stick it in that notes file. Do you do that or? Yeah,
Curtis: I mean, I have a, you know, fairly robust, as a preacher, I feel like you're, you should always be. Yeah. So I, I, here's my theory there. There's people that are brilliant.
Yeah. There's only two types of people there. There's brilliant people. Those are very few. Yeah. In far and between I'm talking like, you know, you can ask any topic and they just off top of the head. Yeah. Then there's people that know how to research Well, yes. I'm the latter. Yeah. So, I just, man, I've stored away stuff.
I've stored away illustrations. I know where to find them. Yeah. You know, I have. [00:33:00] I have a folder. I just use Google Drive. Yeah. Called Bible. Then I have an individual folder for each book of the Bible. Yep. So if it goes in there, I also have one called Topics. Yeah. Which has probably 200 topics. Yeah. And so if right now, if you say something during this podcast that I'm like, that's so good.
Yeah. Like in sermon delivery when, when I leave here. It's been so many, so far. Correct. Like, I will Right. I will leave here and before this day's over, I'll go into my like sermon prep folder. Yeah. And I'll just create a document that, that document could have one sentence. Yeah. Or if I read something in a book.
That I'll create a document that might say, you know, see page 1 22 on this. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. Just, it gives me some,
Chase: I have so many emails to myself when I'm driving, right. It's just like, oh gosh, I'm listening to the radio. I don't know. Alistair Begg is in like, first Peter two, 13 minute mark, I guess.
And that's it. And then I'll go back and research it and stuff. That's, I think there's a, I've actually put a lot of stock in, if you can do this weeks or even months before when you're preaching, just read through the text and start thinking about it. Mm-Hmm. I, for some reason I believe this, I think the [00:34:00] brain digests and kind of does work behind the scenes.
Sure. And there's sometimes where I'll just, I'm doing the work, I'm reading about it, I'm thinking about it. I. And slowly I just go to type and I'm like, oh, there's the obvious outline. You know? Yeah. So there's something about giving your Oh, yeah. Heart. Your soul. Your brain. Time to digest it. We'll
Curtis: ask Andrew Huberman one time to do a podcast on
episode_2_raw-synced-video-cfr_riverside_0004: that.
Chase: Yeah. What are the chemicals that go, but
Curtis: no, I mean, yeah. You think about it. You asked me to talk about my wife right now. Yeah. Why do you love your wife? I'll talk for 30 straight minutes. Yeah. And I think that's how it should be with pastors. Yeah. Right. Is, man, here's a text. Oh man, here's the glories in this text.
Yeah. You almost don't have to strive for, I don't know what to preach at all. Yeah. If anything, you should be, there's so much I wanna preach Yes. That I'm having to take away. Yeah. So,
Chase: so once you do that, I wanna talk about this too, because I think the summit does a really good job at this. And I've taken this model as well.
But what role does a team play in your sermon prep? Because you talked about this, you've talked about like the pre-preparation Yeah. And then the feedback that you get probably after the Yeah. You [00:35:00] still do Saturday nights?
Curtis: We don't. We have Thursday night. Okay. That's what we do too. So we have a Thursday night and then two Sunday morning.
Yeah. Yeah, team we, we have a few different, so, you know, we have a team of three teaching pastors. Mm-Hmm. Myself. Pastor jd, Brian Leitz. Yeah. And so thing the genesis is kind of there, Hey, what are we preaching on? Is there a certain angle we want to go? Yeah. We'll discuss that. I always try to take things, anything I'm preaching on, I take to the campus pastors.
Yeah. I mean, right after this I'm gonna meeting with them. Yeah. And like, well again, baptism's what's sitting in front of us. I remember, you know, a month before that saying, Hey. This is what I'm gonna preach on. Mm-Hmm. And I wanna hear from them like, there's nobody that knows our people better than our campus pastors.
Yep. And so I might have a great idea and I'm an elder at my campus, like I know my campus really well. So you get pre feedback,
Chase: like you get, I want to like input before
Curtis: you sit down and make the actual outline. That's great. Like, what's gonna be most helpful for our people that, they're the ones that are sitting in coffee shops, they're the ones fielding the emails, they're [00:36:00] the ones, you know, doing phone calls the most.
More than anybody. And so I want to know again, preaching isn't just about me exercising some gift. Yeah. Man. There, there's actual people. There's a flock that needs to be shepherded. And so why, why would I not go to those guys who know the flock better than anybody? Yeah. And so I, I usually try to do that.
You mentioned Chris Lardo. I mean, his role in our staff is as an editor. And, and 80% of his role is sermons, right? It's to help with whoever is preaching that week. Yeah. If campus pastors are preaching, he's helping them, is that on an ongoing
Chase: basis or basically, here's what I think is good. Let me submit it to you and then you get it back.
Curtis: He, he works different ways with different people. You know, man. For somebody like me, I'll say, Hey, here's a topic, here's the passage. Give me a couple ideas that would be helpful. So while I'm doing it, he's sending stuff. That's how he tends to work with jd. Brian is somebody, just a different, whole different process.
Yeah. So Brian's more like a man. Let me get a first draft and then I'll [00:37:00] send it to you. Yeah. And then Chris will look it over. He, Chris has a team of, he calls it geniuses. Yeah. This just comes from creative Inc. You know, the way Pixar did with movies. Yeah. So he rotates that team, I think about every six weeks.
So it's a fresh new group of five to 10 people that are reviewing the very rough draft sermon. And again, it's just realtime feedback from people saying, you know, you might type a joke and whatever. People are like, Hey, this, this is not gonna land well. Like, this is not gonna be helpful.
Chase: That's what, I was talking to Jay Thomas during the season of the podcast, and he was like, that's one of the most dangerous aspects of sermons. Now, the Oh yeah, it's the jokes, like you don't know. Oh, yeah. And you're gonna step on toes. And
Curtis: I probably, that's one of the things I've had to learn over the years.
Probably 80% of, you know, Spurgeon said one of the tips, one of Spurgeon's good tips of a. Good preacher was he said, you know, nothing is seen so readily as the pastor's faults. Yeah. And probably 80% of negative feedback I've ever gotten has been about some, [00:38:00] you know, off base joke
Chase: that I've made.
Yeah. Or just something you didn't even
Curtis: intentionally say, you know? Yeah. And I've had to learn that, you know, I don't have the same, I. I mean, I've been at Summit now a decade. Yeah. But, you know, pastor JD has a different relational credit built up Oh, yeah. Than I do. Yeah. And so when I make a withdrawal Yeah.
With a joke, I don't get the same benefit of the doubt. Yeah. And I, it took me a while to understand that. Yeah. And I, it's one of the ways I've grown, I think is, man, it's just not, there's no point in throwing that out for a cheap laugh. Yeah. It's just not worth it. Yeah. You know, to put a stumbling block in somebody, so Chris has a group of geniuses.
They look through it and it's just so, man, there's multiple groups.
Chase: So you get, you get input before you even write the outline. Yeah. You get input during the writing process. Yeah. Then you obviously get feedback. Do you get feedback after you record Thursday? Yeah. Or do you do a run through before? We're crazy.
So we actually meet 2:00 PM on Thursday. And whoever's preaching, they will give their whole sermon to four dudes sitting in the auditorium and we'll tell them. Yep. With the switch and stuff, do you guys do that or is it after
Curtis: Thursday? Yeah. So there's at least two people on Thursday nights. [00:39:00] Yeah. That are word for word following the sermon making notes.
Yeah. And you try to get that feedback instantly. Sometimes it's Friday morning. Mm-Hmm. But yeah. And so now
Chase: Thursday nights is for recording for multi-sites
Curtis: though, right? No, we're live on Sunday as well. Oh,
Chase: yep. See we have to do a pre-recording because on Thursday that's when we record. Okay. And so I always tell pastors when you do it in front of the congregation for the first time, that should not be your first time giving the sermon.
Oh, front
Curtis: people. I go on what's called a sermon walk in the neighborhood. My wife, yeah. She thinks it's funny, but like I go out,
Chase: but I even get on the stage. I'm gonna do it. I give it to people in the room. So this way Thursday night, you can change and adjust. Right when you're live from the broadcast campus
Curtis: Genius.
Yep. Yeah, so there's, there's a group that gives feedback. And man, that's, it's a humbling process. You know, it's a humbling process when it's Wednesday afternoon and, I mean, I use Google Docs. Yeah. And you see like three people in there and you're like, stop looking. Like this is, it's not finished yet.
Chase: That's crazy. Yeah. I we have some input [00:40:00] in, it's different 'cause I'm the lead teacher. But then basically my manuscript's due on Monday and then Thursday at two is my go time. Okay. Like Thursday, it has to be done. I have to have timed it. I have to be comfortable with the manuscript to not look.
Yeah. 'cause they're rating not just content, but also communication. And then, but I've done it forever. So when we used to have Saturday nights, I would do it when the first service and then bring trusted individuals back. Yep. What did you like? What did you not like? And I, it's actually a really good skill to have.
You would not believe this. But being able to transition your sermon pretty quickly, like to implement those changes without necessarily having to go back and retype it and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good skill that you can make your sermon so much better. Yeah. At someone's insight. If you just lay down, if you, if you're humble.
Mm-hmm. And if you're just like, for sure, let me just do this. Like, and it's not a big deal. Let me just adjust it
Curtis: on the fly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My rhythm Monday, I like to know the direction I'm going. Yeah. So again, Thursday night is our first Monday. I wanna [00:41:00] at least know the direction. Tuesday, I'd like to have like a full on outline.
Yeah. Wednesday by end of day I wanna be done. Yeah. Done. In the sense of Thursday, I wake up and I'm just making small tweaks. Mm-Hmm. There's not you, you're more almost working on the craft of Yes. Like by Thursday I wanna be working on sermon delivery. Yes. Not sermon content. Yeah. I wanna be done with content.
Yeah. Wednesday. So that's kind of the rhythm that I have.
Chase: That's cool. Well, I'm gonna have you back, man, because we're kind of running out time, man. But I do, I do have just some quick fire questions. Sure. I think I sent you a few of these, but just fun questions that we ask all of our guests. Have you ever bombed during a sermon?
I have.
Curtis: Lemme just say that. I don't know if I've like full on bombed where it's like this whole thing is horrible. I mean, the
Chase: first one you gave someone got saved. Sure. It was an hour
Curtis: and seven minutes. But I've done. I've used some student things before as like, again, I'm a full manuscript guy.
Yeah. And so, you know, I've, I remember a couple years ago as student night, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna try going just like, yeah. One page [00:42:00] outline. Yeah. More like allegory. Let's see how this goes. And I remember getting done being like, man, that, that was terrible. Yeah. Now I've certainly had the sermons where.
I feel like I get done. Yeah. And I'm like, that was the worst sermon I've ever preached in my life. Mm-Hmm. And then you have five people come up and they're like, it's often the That was life changing.
Chase: Yeah. The ones that God uses the most. Yeah. And often they're ones that I love about opposite For sure.
My wife's like, man, that wasn't your best. I'm like,
Curtis: what? Yeah. You like walk off stage, you're like waiting on people to compliment you and people are just like, see ya. And I'm like, okay. The walk of shake.
Chase: Yeah. You stand up front and no one wants to shake it. Nobody.
Curtis: Yeah. Somebody waves and I realize they're waving at somebody behind me.
I'm like, oh, okay. So. I've had those for, I'm this, so
Chase: as a full manuscript guy and people knock it, I think it's, we're gonna get some guys on here that don't use manuscripts at all. Actually, Leon, crump, he, he, he does manuscripts. He kept to a point where he didn't, and hopefully he'll share this story, but as Brian actually there it, that pulled him aside one time and said, Hey, you're relying on your charisma.
And you can tell the [00:43:00] content's lacking. 'cause there's certain guys that can just rely on it. I can hold a room's attention, I can make 'em laugh. I can make 'em cry. And they don't necessarily have to do the outlining Yep. And the research and all that sort of stuff. So but yeah, I did a youth camp even this, this summer and I love college.
College age is where I shine. Like I just love it. But you get below that to high school, especially middle school, I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. But high school I did a full manuscript and I was like this, and I got five minutes into it. I'm like, it's not gonna work. Yeah. And so I had my manuscript, but I just kind of.
Flip through it. Look, that's where I'm going. And kind of adjust it
Curtis: on the fly. I go on too many rabbit trails if I don't have it. Yeah. Until I preach an hour and 14 minutes, is what happens. But my favorite, I hope we have time for that. My favorite, I won't say who. Pretty well known pastor at this point.
I remember him telling us. The, the worst bomb he ever had. White guy. Yeah. He said he got invited to preach his first time preaching at like an all black church. Yeah. And you know, man, those are some of the funnest churches you ever preach in. [00:44:00] Oh. In your life. And he said it was his pinnacle of bombing, like worst sermon.
Oh no. And he's like, it's one of those where you know, you're bombing like it's about. Yeah. And he said in the middle of his sermon, this is not a joke, he said this older lady, about three quarters of the way back. Yeah. Stands up and he's like, finally like, alright, I'm getting some feedback. Yeah. She lifts her hands, looks up and says, dear God, please help this white man preach.
And then sits back down and he is like, I've never felt worse in my life. Oh gosh. Did it get better or no? No, he said Work come. He said it was awful. So I haven't had any of those. Thankfully. But
Chase: I mean, everyone has down ones. I, I bombed at a college when I was church planning in Nashville.
Mm-Hmm. And I got off stage and Jenny's like, what in the world happened to you? But it really was, I was trying to take a 40 minute sermon and make it in 20 minutes or something like that. So it happens every, have you, what's the most distracting thing to happen to you in the audience? No one stood up and said,
Curtis: help us.
No, I haven't had that. The most distracting, I had to think about this. There was a few years ago, [00:45:00] we had a weekend where. And at least at our campus, we have like an md, usually a music director on Keys who's kind of directing the band. Yeah. He was out that week. So our main worship leader who's like with a guitar was having to run everything from his computer.
Yeah. Basically like just the way we're set up. Short version. I'm up there preaching, he left his computer on stage and our sound guy. Mess something up and put the computer in the house. Oh no. So in the middle of preaching, like over the house speakers, FaceTime, call a track. Oh, a FaceTime. Like our worship leader's wife FaceTimed him.
Oh gosh. And so you hear, is Curtis really speaking FaceTime? Oh gosh. Okay. I'll say, and like in the video you see on my face, like I reached for my phone, which isn't even in my pocket. Yeah. Because I can't preach in my pocket. I can't, like, I can't have anything in my pockets. It's a weird, but I'm like. And man, in those moments I made some joke about, you know, God calling and being like, this is terrible.
Please get off the stage and you just gotta roll. Yeah. I, I think anything super distracting if you do not acknowledge it. Yeah. I think it makes it a thousand times worse. Yeah. Like it's better just [00:46:00] to Yeah, acknowledge. 'cause everybody else knows it. Everybody else is distracted. Dude, it's
Chase: gotta be hard 'cause we record on Thursday.
So Thursday that's going to all the multi-sites. Ain't no other time a camera's on me that's gonna be recorded so. And it seems like they're, I mean, we've had emotional support animals. We've had cats crawling around. Gosh, we've had a dude sweet as family, but he has an emotional support lizard. And it wasn't me, it was actually our emotional support lizard.
Yes. That's amazing. And a bearded dragon. And he used to be this big, but apparently he's grown much larger. Oh, yes. And he was making lizard noises the whole time. And they're on the, they're always on the front row, you know, but you just have to be like, okay. And there's been there's a lady a few weeks ago who wanted to.
Record the first 15 minutes of my message with her cell phone on the flashlight on. Yes. And she was like, third row. And I'm like, okay, well, we just gotta keep going. Well, the glory of
Curtis: the Lord shining upon you. Have
Chase: you ever, and this can be a yes or no question, have you ever accidentally cussed or had like a gaff when you were on stage?
Curtis: I've not cussed, [00:47:00] no. Thankfully. Not, not like, so my worst. Yeah.
Chase: Not like I cussed so much that it just came out, but I said
Curtis: that word wrong. Yeah, yeah. No, like the lot pitched his tense video. Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I haven't had one of those. The worst I've had was actually this summer I was doing a student camp.
I like to do at least one student camp a year. Yeah. I mean, you talked about, man, it's a, it's a. Skill, and I think it's a good skill. Pastor j and I were just talking about this, that like, if you go speak, my kids are at a, you know, if I go speak to fourth graders Yeah. Like, there's an art to forcing yourself to, I, I've gotta preach this to fourth graders and I have 15 minutes.
Yeah. And I have to keep their attention. Yeah. But most time you get done with those messages and you're like, I could take this and blow it up and make it. Yeah. Because it, it forces you to kind of put the hay at the bottom where everybody can get to it. Simplify. We're student camp and. Whenever I'm outta town, our kids do not sleep in bed with us.
We have four kids, nine and under never have. But when I'm out of town, my wife will usually let one each night fall asleep in bed. Yeah. And my middle daughter, who's sweet as can be I was about to walk in tonight, two of camp, [00:48:00] and I get a voice note of her praying. Mm-Hmm. And she's just praying like, you know, praying for, and she's, she's seven mm-Hmm.
You know, you know, God, please help daddy help people get saved. Help these students. Yeah. And so I walk in and you know, part of my intro, I'm just like, Hey man, these counselors look around. You know, a lot of these kids are there. They're just so, I'm like, these counselors have been praying for you.
They love you, man. They, they're here for you. I'm like, they've been praying for you. I was like, in fact, my daughter just sent me a voice note. So I'm trying to explain, I'm like trying to make this like a good moment. And what I said was, my daughter was in bed with my wife and she sends this and then, and somehow I, it was one of those like, why, what is happening? Stop talking. Yeah. I was like, you know, my daughter sent me something 'cause she's in bed. I was like, my wife didn't send me something from bed. I was like, my wife sends me stuff from bed, but that's not for you. And I was like, wait, no. I was like, when she does, that's only for me.
And it was one of those like, that's the line. I was like, what am I saying? Stop talking. But yeah, even for me it was like just. You know in [00:49:00] your head you're like, shut.
Chase: Oh, Curtis, it's high schoolers. For some reason
Curtis: I was teaching on, oh, were done. High school. Yeah. And it was high school camp. So they're done.
Yeah. They're just like,
Chase: I was teaching on Daniel. And I said something that I used to have a friend that was worked on Staff Joe. You would know him. And he was just the like, like the unknown euphemisms or stuff you would would say that could be taken dirty. I have no idea. He was the barometer. So if he was chuckling for sure, I would actually do a little tick mark in my notes and I'd have to go to, hey.
What was, what was dirty about this? I don't even know. And he'd explain it. You're like, oh, I gotcha. Yeah. You know exactly who I'm talking about, don't you? But I did, I said something that I didn't mean to, and, and we have two high school rows at one of our largest campuses and they start laughing and it kind of, ah, and then I tried to fix it and said something worse, and I'm just like, ah.
And I gotta keep going. Yeah. So happens to everyone. Have you ever dealt, before we wrap up, you ever dealt, dealt with anxiety, with depression, anything like that?
Curtis: Yeah. I mean that's, yeah. That's a heck of one to end on. Yeah. I don't know if you're talking about service
Chase: specific, a lot of people do.
Yeah. You know,
Curtis: but [00:50:00] so I, man, growing up pre-Jesus days, I had like low level, I, I'd have bouts of like, low level depression. Yeah. I've realized what's interesting is I'll still wake up, I'll, I'll have this happened probably two months ago. I just woke up. Mm-Hmm. And I had it three days in a row where I just, tomorrow I was like, I'm just down.
Yeah. Like, and so that kinda stuff, it wasn't until ER's, John Mark. Yeah. What's it, what ruthless elimination. Yeah. I almost said the slow down book. Ruthless. You know, we talked about anxiety being like when he talked about low level anxiety. Yeah. Like I've been counseling, I've been in counseling.
My wife Ryan in counseling. I recommend it to everybody. I've just never thought of the term low level anxiety. Mm-Hmm. I used to pride myself on like, man, it takes a lot to stress me out. But I always did feel like there's just like this five pound weight. Yeah. And five pounds is not a lot, but if you carry it around 24 7 every day, it's a lot.
And so when it comes to preaching, I think one of [00:51:00] my spiritual gifts genuinely is a version of faith. Mm-Hmm. Where I truly believe that God's word will not return void. Mm-Hmm. I mean, I have that printed, those the things I pray before I preach. Deep breath. I grew up as an athlete, so like, I like deep breath, Lord, you know, John three 30 must decrease.
He must increase. And God, would your word go forth and if your word goes forth, it's gonna accomplish that what you purpose. Yeah. And if I've preached your word, not my words, then I can stand on that. And so any anxiety that ever pops up, I can take a deep breath, pray those things. That's good. And I feel like I'm freed up.
You still get any
Chase: stage fright when you hop on after?
Curtis: No, it's, it's interesting. It's kind of funny what you said. I would rather speak in front of 50,000 than five. Yes. Because I see five sets of eyeballs on me. Yeah. And to speak like in front of our staff or a room full of like, if I had to give a sermon in front of all of our church planters Yeah.
Then you'd see the, you know, if you look at my Apple watch my, my vitals probably go a little bit. Oh yeah. Put up 15 in front thousand people and I'm like, nah. Especially if they're
Chase: strangers. Yeah. No big deal. I still [00:52:00] get nervous making announcements in staff meeting, which is weird. And I get a little nervous first two minutes every time I get up and speak.
And.
Curtis: Do a lot. I get more the only time, and I think it's a weight thing and of course I feel the weight of preaching. I get more quote unquote nervous just leading through communion than I do giving a sermon. Yeah. And I think it's 'cause I feel the weight of like, yeah, man, if somebody takes this who's not supposed to, they might die.
Yeah.
Chase: Eating judgment on this. Yeah. So, well, what advice, what advice would you have for. Just pastors that are up and coming, or pastors that are in your seat that are doing this 5, 7, 10 times a year, maybe they want to do more. Mm-Hmm. Maybe fives as much as they can. Just, you know, two or three parting words,
Curtis: man.
Up and coming. As much as you can, you know, say yes to every, there's nothing too small. Yeah. Yeah. When my kids' third grade teacher calls and says, can you come do chapel? Yeah. Like, I want to if I can, I wanna say yes. Yeah. I don't wanna [00:53:00] be like, that's third graders. I don't, you know, if somebody hits me up, can you come do this FCA thing with 12 students?
I mean, there's an art to that. Yeah. It's honing your skill. Mm-Hmm. And so say yes to as many things as you can. Less is more goodness gracious. I know the, this is probably a whole nother, as somebody that doesn't get to speak every week when you do get to speak. You almost feel the weight of, I need, I wanna say everything that I've been wanting to say.
Yeah. It's the only sermon I'm gonna preach for, like Yeah. Or like whatever John four woman at the, well you, you're like, I need to make every theological point in woman at the well. Mm-Hmm. I need to make every application, I need to give every illustration. 'cause I may never get to preach this again.
Yeah. I'd say, man, do away with that. Figure out what, what is God calling you to preach in this? Less is more. If you can't do it in 30 minutes, don't. You know, you haven't figured out the main point of your sermon yet. Oh, good. That's another thing. So good. That's helpful. Yeah. Is we call it the 2:00 AM rule.
Mm-Hmm. You know, if my wife wakes me up at 2:00 AM the week I'm preaching and says, Hey, tell me what your sermon's on again. Yeah. If I can't do it in less than 30 seconds at 2:00 AM on a whim. Yeah. I haven't figured out what I'm actually preaching on that [00:54:00] week. And so less is more. And, and even with that, like leave people wanting more.
Mm. You know, it, it's better once something peaks. Man land the plane. Yeah. Like don't, don't have three conclusions just because they were all great stories. Oh my gosh.
Chase: Who is it? H HB Charles was talking about it where he says, when you're on a plane and it's flying, you know you're supposed to touch down in Raleigh.
Mm-Hmm. Oh, nope. And it circles around again in way, you're like, whats going on? It circles around three or four times just in the message, you know, it's
Curtis: better to preach 80% of what you wanna preach. Yeah. And leave people wanting more than to preach 110% Yeah. Of what you wanted to preach and people being like, I wish this was over.
Yes. And it's taken me a while to, to learn that as well. Man, find some people that you trust. Yeah. And that feedback thing that is invaluable. Yeah. Inevitably, this painting with a broad brush, inevitably every single time I preach, [00:55:00] when somebody says, you know, X was amazing. Y was amazing.
One of those things they say was amazing was something that come from me else. Yeah. It came from the Chris Popo or from somebody else? Yeah. I
Chase: used to reference those and like my good friend Aaron was telling me Right. And now I just dropped it. 'cause like a lot of, I would be saying that like five times every time.
Yeah.
Curtis: Like, man, find those people to, and and then find people that you trust to man, if you have a, you know, a pastor mentor. If you don't, man, reach out to somebody. Yeah. A lot of these folks are willing. Yeah. Like I have three sermons sitting in my inbox right now. Yeah. From people that are preaching it, like cohorts or a youth event.
Mm-Hmm. And are saying, Hey, do you mind looking? I'm like, I love it. Yes. Like, yeah man, it's nothing for me to spend 45 minutes doing and part of
Chase: it, this is what we do. Right. So they think it's a huge waste of, or like a huge time suck. I talked to a guy Monday this week and he's doing a an offsite, he's doing a session for a little conference and he's like, here's the text, what would you do?
And I'm like, lemme think about it. And then 15 minutes later I'm like. Here's the three points that I would work at, and I would probably take this angle. Just looking at that, [00:56:00] and he's like, how'd you do that so fast? Yeah. I was like, let's, it's what we do, man. Like this is, this is the gift that God has given us and we can do it pretty quick now that I couldn't write the whole talk, you know?
Yeah. That would take a long time. No
Curtis: athlete, like it would be absurd if you're a quarterback to not have a throwing coach. Yeah. Yeah. Like to not have a strength coach. Yeah. Like the specified things. So to not, if God has called you to be a preacher Yeah. To not have another seasoned preacher. Mm-Hmm. That is insightful.
Like helping you in that you're just limiting yourself and they would love to severely like reach out
Chase: to your, they would love to pastor even like Yeah. Pastor you listen to all the time. Yeah. You, you might be surprised at how willing they are. Yeah.
Curtis: Resource wise. That book that I said preaching that moves people.
Yancy Ton. Yeah. I'm, I cannot over recommend that book. Yeah. It is phenomenal. Yeah. Well, thanks for being on my friend, man. Thanks for having me. We'll have to have you back blast. Yeah, [00:57:00]