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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
Liz Herl: [00:00:00]
Welcome.
Tim Caldwell: Welcome, Liz.
Liz Herl: Welcome to Anchored in Chaos.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Liz Herl: Yeah. So, shall we inform everyone what we're all about?
Tim Caldwell: Ladies first.
Liz Herl: All right. Thanks. I am Liz Herl a licensed clinical marriage and family therapist. I have been in private practice for coming up to a decade, not [00:01:00] quite.
And, I just kind of had this idea, this have desire really to do more. Mm hmm. So two years ago I thought about a podcast and I didn't want to do this gamut of everything. Is that right? And kind of put it off and put it off and then I realized just do it, right? Just dive right in. Yeah, so prior to private practice I was had human service degree in psychology and I worked in social service arena in a vast, a variety of different areas, for about 18 years and then went back to grad school because I wanted to do more and then I thought of this little baby.
Tim Caldwell: That's great. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And in that, where our relationship began, our partnership, is that, I met you when I decided to reevaluate my fitness. And really my health. I would say more my health than my fitness. [00:02:00] Uh, November of... You keep saying November. It is January. January.
Sorry. January of 23. Yes. January 23, yeah.
This year, right. And, I met up with you and you were happy enough to oblige me with giving me some feedback on the correct regimen because it was probably my 250th try at working out. Yeah. Yeah. And that happens. That happens. Mm-Hmm, . And I told you when we started that I wasn't gonna that's exactly right.
Go very far. So within that, I got to know a lot about you and what you did and what your history of your education. And I thought what a great combination to have an individual that I could have a great dialogue with about the physical and the psychological and the mental health components, because we are all one, though we don't act like we are.
That's right. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. So, as my co host, please introduce yourself.
Tim Caldwell: For my mother's benefit, I am Dr. Timothy [00:03:00] Earl Caldwell. Very good. She, ~uh, ~almost insisted that I always speak to, uh, audiences by announcing myself with my entire name, but Dr. Tim is fine, or Dr. Caldwell is fine with me.
I am~ a, I am a, uh,~ a retired,
~uh, ~
chiropractor. I started out on the allopathic side, but I decided that that really wasn't for me
~uh,.~
The paradigm and philosophies behind allopathic medicine never made any sense to me. I have a long, long, journey of college behind me. All in the sciences, which includes cell biology and human anatomy.
And, some advanced studies in neurology and brain physiology. I have a long past of, owning and operating businesses. My first business was Genuine Effort. I started back in 1987. That business still exists today. And, actually, as I reach my, the winter of my career, I went back to, spending almost full time.
Training clients. I [00:04:00] got a director's position at the YMCA, ~which was,~ which was a nice eye opener for me. And then I just decided, you know what, I'm going to do my own thing.
That's what we met. Which is where we met, right? That's where we met. At the YMCA, right. And,
~um, uh,~
I've enjoyed it very, very much. And my philosophy about training and nutrition are incredibly simple and basic.
And I try to make sure that people understand it. It doesn't have to be as complicated as It as the rest of the world seems to, uh, make it. And that, , my interest in what you do, ~ very much,~ mm-Hmm. very much, very much fascinates me. In the future, we will have a podcast for the Genuine Effort website and my own podcast, in which I hope very much that you will spend a great deal of time on co-hosting.
And,
~uh,~
but the interest that you and I both have is that it's not,
~um.~
Just your body, or nutrition, or your mind. It's all of it. , there's a common phrase used, essentially, that everything below the neck is anatomy, [00:05:00] physiology, kinesiology.
~Um,~
these things that, they're mechanical and make the world work.
Excuse me, our bodies work. But everything above is psychology, psychiatry, the mental emotional tie and how do we put those things together? Because I can't fix one without the other. Right. All, all the drugs in the world, all the surgeries in the world, all the things that you want to do in the outside world to try to influence those things.
If I don't get these things tied together, they're not going to, they're not going to cooperate. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's kind of how we got things started. I, I think it's fascinating that you had an interest to start a podcast.
I
Liz Herl: I think we're in the same nature that this is our jam. It is, it is. As far as like being in front, I guess for me, being in front of the camera and, you know, breaking
that shell, I guess.
Tim Caldwell: I've told you, I've had the opportunity to do, whiteboard talks on video and stuff like that before. But to [00:06:00] start my own thing, I always had some apprehension because there's so many people out there saying pretty much the same thing. How do you make it interesting? Well, this is what makes it interesting.
Is now that, sure I can tell you all about training and, how to program for people and the proper way to diet and exercise. But quite frankly, if people don't address the rudimentary problems of what's going to happen with my baggage, right? Mm-Hmm. . I have these repetitive Yeah. We're gonna talk behaviors and habits that just keep condemning me and I, I've tried 250 times and I just can't get it.
So wait a minute. , so what, so what's the difference? Right?
Right. How do we make the difference?
Liz Herl: Well, um, I was gonna say, we're gonna definitely talk about how trauma gets trapped in your body. Mm-Hmm. and,
~um,~
and how to kind of work through that a little bit. ~Um,~ Um, and address that. I think that, throughout my lifetime, when I talk, when I think about, , I was just sharing with you, we've had several conversations, but I was just sharing with you [00:07:00] the, when I would work out and I would lose weight and it, you know, it would come back or I didn't really feel like I lost weight. Like the scale would represent that, but I didn't feel it necessarily in my body.
And we were talking about, obviously, and this will definitely come. As much as I don't want it to, but in my journey in the last eight months, I've recently lost a significant amount.
Tim Caldwell: She has and
you're going to reveal that. You're going to tell everybody how much.
Liz Herl: Sure. Um, and, but we were talking about another popular individual, a celebrity, that has done the same thing in two months.
And we were talking about how... Just recently, yes. Just recently. That's what I'm saying. As as just, uh, today that we were having this conversation.
~Um,~
and that... The difference between working out and how you're going to actually shrink the cells and change your body physically and from a cellular level versus the~ the ~
~quick fix schemes that are out there.~
~I was just saying the difference between ~
quick fix schemes than
~um,~
actual, the effort, the genuine [00:08:00] effort of, thank you very much, you're welcome, shout out, uh, to working out and I, and I just shared that with you and I've said it several times, what?
Month, 1, month 2, month 3, I was ready to be like, oh, this is Oregon. Yeah, you... Because it was tough. I mean, in two months, what, was it a pound? I was like, well, forget this. Two
months. In two months, you lost about a pound. Yeah. In three months... No, thank you. you literally came to me and said, I don't think I can do this.
No,
it was ridiculous. I'm like, I'm not a fit person. I don't have the fit, athletic body. And... But what did I do?
Keep going. No, now we introduce
food. Oh yeah, that's right, you did tell me, you told me like, well, like quitting wasn't an option for you, for me, for you anyways. It was like, oh no, now we're going to do this.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, that's right,
that's right. The reason I start people out on weight training before I start them on nutritional and trying to change their whole philosophy and paradigm in life is one at a time. [00:09:00] Most of the time it's just overwhelming. It's too much to do all at once. So let's just get you coming in the door every day.
Let's just have you exercise every day. Learn how to exercise. And as you may attest, I have a very specific way of training that teaches you how to feel the exercise you're doing, not just repetitions and how many sets can I bag. But what's the goal here? I'm training this body part. I should be feeling this body part, not just pushing or pulling.
Well, after I see the commitment is made, that you can do this, and you do make the effort, and you are responding, and you get stronger, and your energy goes up. Alright, as valuable as nutrition is, I don't start with that. It comes second. Second, then you introduce nutrition. Once we start make, put you on a nutrition plan, and I start preparing your meals.
It just took off. Yeah. It was like
wildfire.
Liz Herl: Well, it was fascinating. And I definitely think one of the guests in the future that we're going to talk to is [00:10:00] a doctor that I work with because being a middle aged woman and having, um, Middle aged?
Tim Caldwell: Go ahead.
I
get a
Liz Herl: pin. Um, and just going through life cycles that, ~um, ~The, ~um,~ underserved,~ um,~ area that women are actually, ~um,~ faced with as far as, ~um,~ dysregulated hormonal components.
And that was another, in combination with really taking ~Um,~ my health, and it really was my health by the reins a little bit because my, I was having blood pressure issues and I, I told you that they said you'll be on blood pressure medicine the rest of your life because it's heredity and you're going to, this is just the way it is.
Yeah. And I'd actually, individuals say, your body has solidified, you're middle aged, this is just as good as it gets. Yeah, that's just a pathetic thing to do to a person. And I'm like. Wow, like, so, but, I'm like, well, I guess this is the way it is, and I'm all about like, accept where you are, within where you, and then I was like, there's got to, I got to try something else.
Yeah, that's. I was just mentally and emotionally and [00:11:00] physically unhappy. That's the
Tim Caldwell: part about, you know, I think that, I watch a lot of,~ um,~ influencers out there. They're all over the place. These guys who claim that they've, you know, worked with thousands of clients and all this stuff. Really? How many came back?
How many success stories do you have? They lost 10 or 15 pounds. What do they look like now? My point is, is, ~um,~ when you can have clients lose weight, you know, if you can, if you can take a person who's shaped like this and you turn them into this and you turn them into that, you turn them in, that's significant and they hold that for decades, absolutely.
That's not just, that's not just a diet, right? That's a whole, you've changed their whole life. That's what I'm after more to the, more to the point is. These influencers who come forward and say, you know, you don't have enough energy, men, you need testosterone. Really? Really? Have you checked anything else in your diet?
Maybe it's all the sugar, maybe it's the way that you eat, maybe it's the way that you sleep. Sure. Maybe, maybe you. Women, ~um,~ that's a terrible thing to tell people that they [00:12:00] don't have, ~um,~ you know, it's just how it is. Take, take the pills, right? Oh,
Liz Herl: and that was another thing,
Tim Caldwell: yeah. Yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible.
Everybody's prescribing something, and you don't have to. Teach them how to do it, they'll learn how to do it, and they can do it all by themselves. That, that's the whole premise behind, that's what I believe in. That's, that genuine effort name comes from the fact that you can do this. You, you, I, I believe it genuinely that you can, and you will too when people make that change.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, when you make, when you really make the change, and you see the results, that's when, and that's exactly it. I mean, now it's ridiculous. I go to the gym every single day.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah,
Liz Herl: yeah. Because now it's like I'm bot side. I mean, I'm just all in.
Tim Caldwell: We just heard that psychologically, these people who go to the gym all the time, it's not a psychological crutch to think that these people are now addicted to the gym.
Most of these people are now addicted to not working out. Not to have that stimulus, [00:13:00] right? Not to have... So what do they do in their off time? Right? Are they active? Are they this? No, they're not. They, that's why the gym is their outlet. Sure.
Liz Herl: I was just saying, I can tell a day that I, if I'm just too busy and I don't get to the gym, it's a different day.
I can just tell. It's a different day. But I also, we'll go into a lot more of that in the future about what happens in your brain and when, when you're working out, that's all the, all those things. But, um, yeah, that's kind of, um, what else I was going to say more about, oh, we haven't even talked about, ~um,~ should go to our Anchored in Chaos.
This guy, yeah. Yeah. Go to our website. This is brand new. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: This is brand new. It is brand new. This, this entire concept is out of Liz's head. Yeah. And heart, truthfully. And, ~uh,~ it's hatched and now we make this thing flourish, right? And want it to thrive.
Liz Herl: Yeah, I just want to help people. That's all. I just want to help people.
I don't have all the answers. I just want to encourage, really. Yeah. That's a big thing. I just want
Tim Caldwell: to encourage you. That's the interesting thing, too, in the interest that you and I have in [00:14:00] this thing. Money be damned. If we can pay the bills, sweet. I don't have to make, I'm not, I don't have to make my money doing this stuff, which these influencers crave.
Look, I want to be pop, I want this to be popular. I want it to gain traction. I want people to take it, but I want people to understand that we're providing at least a few glimpses into some different toolboxes that they can use, and They can contact
us to do that.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you can actually have contact.
That's the thing. Go to our website you can contact us and we really want that interaction and When we do ask people to like and share we're only encouraging for that to be for our message to be spread
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, right. If you genuinely like what we have to say, I hope that you'd share it. Absolutely.
Typically everything We have to say is gonna be wholesome truth, right? There's~ Um,~ I'm not the type, the nice thing about being a co host to your show is I don't have to cite all my sources. I don't have ~to. Um,~ [00:15:00] I'm not, I'm only, I'm morally and ethically responsible to deliver to, to people good information.
And I would never, I would no more mislead a stranger than I would a friend. Sure. Right? There's no, there's no value to me to cause harm to anybody else. And I'm prepared just like you are. I'm prepared to be 180 degrees wrong. Right. Yeah. But in nearly 40 years of training,~ um,~ I've had great successes. Not just my own, but all of the people who've been with me in the past.
Yeah, that's the whole point is, ~um,~ my clients are my calling card. And that's what I want it to always be, is my clients are my calling card. And that they don't have to stay with me forever. Let me teach you how. You go do your thing. You want to come see me? You want to visit me? Perfect. But take that knowledge and go and grow, right?
That's the whole
idea.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. ~Um, ~do you want to share, if you go to our website, the Mindmeld section, because that's an [00:16:00] interactive section for listeners and viewers.
Tim Caldwell: It is, so~ um,~ Liz is a Star Trek nerd. She has loved the 60s series of Star Trek.
Liz Herl: You didn't do it.
Tim Caldwell: Oh, sorry. She loves Mr. Spock. So, she started her own mind meld.
~Um, ~
are we gonna call that a,~ ~
~uh,~
what are we gonna call the mind meld? Discussion.
Liz Herl: Discussion. They're mind meld forums where individuals can go and subscribe and come in and we have,~ ~
~um,~
they're, if you go on there right now, we have two topics. Yeah.
~Um, ~
and when you go into, subscribing, you get to be a part of those topics.
Right. Um, when topic is, well, the first topic will be open, well, it's an open forum. Right. And then, we'll follow up at a second,
~um,~
time and date, so we're giving two different options. So they get
two topics a month, and they'll have at least two opportunities to speak at each topic. Meaning... If this date doesn't work for you and you want to be in that topic, you might be able to slot in like this.
Yeah, [00:17:00] and the memberships, yeah, I kind of fell apart on your description, I'm sorry, but
Tim Caldwell: the
Liz Herl: idea is that a membership will gain you access and the neat thing about what we're doing right now is because it's new and introductory, we're going to have 15 dollars for a month. That's 3. dollars in 25 a session, but it's literally a Zoom
Tim Caldwell: ~Uh,~
Liz Herl: it's the opportunity to be in a Zoom forum, ask, you can watch.
You don't have to participate. You don't have to participate. You can just listen. But I'd
Tim Caldwell: you can ask questions you can text You can You can, ~um,~ you can communicate those ideas We'll discuss those things. We ask people to be civil and open minded and, but we'll talk about tough stuff.
And the nice thing, which I appreciate Liz, is that we're going to talk about some real world stuff. Yeah. Totally. We're going to talk about. Well, we, we need to talk about things that,~ um,~ really do bother us. Mm-Hmm. politics and, ~uh, gender, all of~ all of this gender upheaval, all of all of all the things we see in [00:18:00] war and loss of life.
Mm-Hmm. and loved ones and all of these things that are really tough. We're gonna talk about those. Sure. Absolutely. ~Um, ~some will be heavier than others. Mm-Hmm. . But, but you have a choice to join. And for that $15 if you join. And the introductory thing, as long as you continue to, as long as you don't cancel, that 15 dollars will be for the entire time this program lives.
That's right. Later on, we're gonna pick January 15th. I think so. January 15th, we'll bump it up to 35, dollars yeah. And that, uh, that still gives everybody the same amount of access, but what we'll try to do is, ~uh,~ you and I will moderate. We'll have the opportunity, somebody... Somebody can be answering while somebody's reading.
We can go through here. We try to answer, we'll try our very best to answer as many as we can, and we'll try to have, I don't know, we'll have to experiment on how many people make it a functional forum. Too many can be a little convoluted, and one's not enough, but yeah, we're looking forward to this. This will be fun.
It's a great [00:19:00] idea. It
Liz Herl: is, and I look forward to it. Very, um, it states it's on the website, but I also want to make sure everyone, this is not a group psychotherapy. We will not be,~ um,~ operating in that environment. It's just an open forum of discussions and ideas. ~Um,~ there is,~ um,~ some rules of engagement also on there.
It just kind of gives you an outline of what you should expect and what we expect and what you should expect of us. Yeah. It's an equal partnership.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely, yeah. And the same applies with me, although I am a doctor. and well studied. Most everything I'm going to express is just empirical evidence from years of study and life experience.
But it's essentially an opinion, and an opinion is as valuable, my opinion is as valuable as yours, and we'll stand the line where we all respect each other when we speak.
Liz Herl: There is a portion that I talk about in my intro, that data driven strategies component. I wanted to speak to that. ~Um,~ and that is, it [00:20:00] They're almost, ~um,~ when that's provided, I don't think that that is gospel.
I think that you can have one data driven strategy and one that, the other one that just completely annihilates it. Oh, sure, sure. So I think there's some, there's an, an interesting, ~um, um,~ discussion within that, like, you know. So. This one says this is all right and this one says, no, that's not right. You know, back and forth.
And so it's just an open, uh, understanding. Well,
Tim Caldwell: you and I both know through, through having done research in the past, ~um,~ for every, for every pro I can, I can find a con, right. And, ~um,~ I've done research for a consortium of docs in, ~um,~ Denver, and the first thing I ask, ~um,~ or the first thing I learned to ask is how do you want it spun?
Do you want it spun to the positive, do you want it spun to the negative, or do you want it right down the middle? Because that's how I tend to deliver all information. These are the pros, these are the cons, you weigh. But what you were saying, when you compare one to the other, it's like diets. All diets work.
Some diets are fast, some diets are slow, some diets are [00:21:00] risky, some diets are not. But, we're all different, right? And, I don't know if you want to do Atkins or Keto or what, let's figure it out, right? But I can tell you the pros and cons of each. Sure, absolutely. Pretty, pretty, pretty well. The idea is, you pick and choose.
You decide what's up for you. I'll explain to you why I do my things and you can explain to me why you want to do your things. Fine. That's how we find the middle road. Right.
Liz Herl: Awesome. ~Um,~ we want to always try and, end our episodes with some food for thought. And I guess food for thought in my mind was, what did we learn?
I mean, cause this isn't just about us spewing opinions. Cause that is a lot of, different podcasts today. It's this, and it's, we will be giving our opinions, so don't get me wrong, but there's one of the most important things that I think. I would say people are lost in today's finding their voice and utilizing it.
We have people utilizing their voice, don't get me wrong. Oh yeah, there's lots of shouting. Yeah, there's a lot of it. [00:22:00] But sometimes I think there's a, the individual that's listening to this says, you know, you're right. I should be using my voice. Maybe I don't know how, maybe I'm a little nervous about it.
~Um,~ especially when I see or hear the, what social media may be providing as far as people speaking their minds and, and I'm, hey, whatever to, you know, do what you need to do, but Then you need to do what you need to do. Yeah, right. So what do we learned? What are we gonna do about it? What are you gonna do about it?
What, what's going to facilitate change within your life that's gonna help be more impactful and healthy for
Tim Caldwell: overall? Yeah, that was something you and I both agreed on is it? Yeah, there's so many people out there railing about what's wrong with this country. What's , this isn't right and this isn't right, and you know what they ought to do.
And you know, there's so many armchair quarterbacks out there, but truthfully, we just don't all, we don't all have the same information. Mm-Hmm. either it's not the same information or it's bad information. Regardless. We wanna make, we, we want to have a discussion. We recap what we talked about [00:23:00] and then try to provide some tools to let you know, well, you know what, this is where you can find some research.
Mm-Hmm. , this is where, this is where if, if we step back and we look at the problem, we go, what is, how is it really impacting? What can we do about that? How can I reduce the impact on my life? There's always tools, there's always ways to cope. Mm-Hmm. always Ways more than cope. Try to find a solution so it can help.
Right. Resolve action steps. Remedy and resolve. Right? Mm-Hmm. , remedy and
Liz Herl: resolve. Mm-Hmm. . There's some action steps and you take place. It's exciting.
Tim Caldwell: I'm, I'm, I'm excited to be a part of this. Well,
Liz Herl: I appreciate it. I hope everyone else is, ~um,~ excited too. And they join in and give us a chance. Right. ~What's your, um,~
Tim Caldwell: what's gonna be your tagline?
Oh, I better ring
Liz Herl: ~Joan. Um,~ what's yours?
Tim Caldwell: Mine is, um, and especially in the opportunities to speak to the public. When I say, take care of yourself, I mean take care of yourself. And the idea behind taking care of yourself is, [00:24:00] my job, I believe I was put on, God's good earth in service to others and I didn't understand a lot of what I did in my bodybuilding and in my Professional career and my love to be in the gym and yet still have all these science degrees And that is I get a chance to help people and I never really put that together until later in life Maybe I was in 40 and 50.
I struggled with it I really did but the idea is when I tell people I want you to take care of yourself. I mean that For you to have long life. My dad is 95. He cuts wood every day at the age of 95. He still drives. He's still now, That's great genetics. Mm-Hmm. . But it's also this worth, worth work ethic that this man gets up and he has a scheduled regime of things that he does.
Right. The idea behind any of that is that there's structure and I want him to take care of himself and he still exercises. He still goes to the gym three times a week. And I didn't even get him [00:25:00] started in the gym until he was in his 80s. But the whole idea behind that is other people rely on you, right?
Other people love you and for goodness sakes, if you won't do it for you, do it for them. Do it for your grandchildren. Do it for your, your spouse. Do who, do it for whoever really loves you. Step out of yourself and be good to yourself. But you can You get to feel better. You get to operate better. You, you can have less pain.
You can have a, this, this isn't any woo woo stuff. This is an actual attempt to make people feel, feel better by using tools that we know work, right? Mm hmm. And that's what I ask. Take care of yourself. Nice.
Liz Herl: Well, when you say all that, it kind of came back to me, and that is, I do this all the time, in professional and personal, and that is, We are far too hard on ourselves, so be a little compassionate to yourself.
~Um,~ we're critical all the time of all of our decision making and our thoughts [00:26:00] and,~ um, ~mistakes that we kind of beat ourselves up a little too much, so maybe we should give ourselves a little grace. That's good. And some compassion. Yeah, that's good. So take care, in that way, be compassionate to yourself while you're taking care of yourself.
Yeah,
Tim Caldwell: that's good. That's good. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks. We got a lot of work ahead, don't we? Yeah, I'm excited. So, ~um,~ we're going to have a launch party soon. Yes.
Liz Herl: Yeah. That's coming up. Yeah. In the middle of next month. Do you want to give us a date on this? Sure. This is, this intro portion is going to drop out and then December 8th we are going to have a launch, official launch and the first official full episode.
Yeah. And it's across,
Tim Caldwell: it's
Liz Herl: across multiple platforms. Yes. Yes. It will be on the website. Everything is on the website. That's right.
Tim Caldwell: Anchored in Chaos. Yes. Right. And then,~ uh,~ Genuine Effort, LLC, it'll be kicking up soon, ~um,~ one at a time, right? But the idea behind it is that, ~um,~ we're going to collaborate to make sure that we can provide as many services as we can to others.
~Um,~ we're looking into training, [00:27:00] going, traveling abroad, we're, we're looking at, uh, I have an interest in attending a, uh, KSAN out in Virginia Beach. Yep. Yep, and that, that's how to work with people who are, I'm really interested in amputees. Yeah, so I've had a fascination with prosthetics my entire life there's a whole mental
Liz Herl: health
Tim Caldwell: component to that.
Absolutely. Yeah, and that's where I think you'll have a fun time with that is It's not just getting people in the gym who think and you don't have to look I know people who have broken necks and they get out of bed every day and go do their thing in the gym and it takes them five times longer than it does us .They still do it.
What's your excuse? It's dumb. That's dumb. The comparison is, I always tell this story, a man was, um, a man was interviewing, ~ um, ~Ginger Rogers. Do you remember Ginger Rogers? Ginger Rogers was Fred Astaire's dance partner. So she was interviewed. I should say no, so I appear much younger. Well anyway, she, [00:28:00] she was asked by a reporter, What's it like dancing with the greatest dancer in the world?
And Ginger Roger responded, I can do his job backwards, in a skirt, in high heels. Oh yeah, that's right, I remember this. So, that's my whole, my whole point is, you see people who are really doing a good job? No, there are people out there who are doing a bang up job. You know, they're doing, they're doing 10 times what you do.
That's very attractive to me. I want to do that. I want that to happen for everybody. Everybody should be in the gym. I think of it as like a church. Yeah, you do. I know you do. Well, thanks for, thanks for having me in Lowell. I'm looking forward to this thing. All right. Taking wing.
Here we go. Buckle up, buttercup.
Thanks. Bye bye.