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Conversations with some fo the worlds most amazing business founders, leaders and experts, examining the changing landscape of leadership, purpose, business growth, Scaling Up and change with business leaders and owners in mind. We cover a mix of topics designed to ignite (or re-ignite) your SPARK help you SCALE and then SUSTAIN your growth one conversation at a time.
Learn More: visit the Ignium https://www.igniumconsult.com/
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Connect with your host Phil Rose on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachphilrose/
SPARKS FOR GROWTH — EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Guest: Nicola Anderson | Founder, Capacity to Grow
Topic: Are You Holding Your Own Business Back? SME Growth Strategies With Nicola Anderson
Host: Phil Rose
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CHAPTER MARKERS
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Use these timestamps to navigate the episode in Transistor, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
00:00 Welcome & Introduction — Nicola Anderson, Founder of Capacity to Grow
01:28 Nicola's Background — 37 Years in Business, 25 in Construction
02:25 From Client-Side FM to Full Turnkey Modular Construction
04:17 The Post-COVID Pause and Losing Her Mum — What Prompted the Leap
07:53 Day One as a Founder — Excitement, Nervousness and Optimism
09:53 The Sense of Freedom That Comes With Running Your Own Business
11:05 Why Nicola Set Up Her Business — Helping Smaller Businesses Make an Impact
13:02 What "Founder Dependency" Really Means
15:20 The Weight of Never Switching Off — and the Road to Burnout
18:37 Male vs Female Founders — Who Asks for Help First?
22:16 How Nicola Starts With a Founder: "What Would You Like Your Life to Look Like?"
23:42 Introducing the DASH Framework
24:11 D Is for Delegate — What Could You Let Go Of?
26:33 A Is for Automate — Removing Repeatable Tasks With Systems and AI
27:03 S Is for Stop — Why Some Tasks Don't Need Doing at All
27:59 H Is for Hire — Getting the Right Person, Not a Sticking Plaster
28:51 Which Part of DASH Matters Most? Delegation and the Trust It Requires
29:59 Getting the Structure Right Before You Can Delegate
32:29 Avoiding the "Mini-Me" Hiring Trap
34:03 Selling Your Business to Candidates — and the Contribution Compass Tool
36:33 What Happens When Founders Never Ask for Help
39:04 Health as the Foundation — a Founder on His Third Cancer Scare
40:45 Why Family Time Is the Thing You Can't Get Back
43:38 Life After the Hustle — Visibility, COOs and the Next Generation
45:50 What Really Stops Founders Achieving Their Vision — Identity and Fear
48:12 Building Team Capability So Founders Can Trust Their People
49:44 Nicola's Number One Piece of Advice: Pause
51:50 Advice to Her Younger Self — Build Your Network, Believe in Yourself
53:48 Nicola's Own Vision of Founder Freedom — a Gîte in the Dordogne
55:56 Where to Find Nicola Anderson
56:15 Wrap-Up and Thanks
56:30 Outro — Phil's Takeaways and Call to Action
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KEY MOMENTS — EPISODE SUMMARY
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A curated summary of the most important insights from this conversation.
Founder Dependency, Defined (13:02)
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Nicola explains that "founder dependency" is a phrase she only started using in the last 18 months, once she realised the common thread across her client work: helping the founder get out of the day-to-day. She describes how every business starts with the founder doing everything, and how — even as a team grows to five, ten or more people — the founder often stays the point of contact for every decision. Listeners get a clear, practical definition of a term that's become central to how Nicola works with £5 million-plus businesses.
The Weight of Never Switching Off (15:20)
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Nicola describes the constant, low-level pressure of being a founder — even lying on a sun lounger without a laptop for a week, the business stays in the back of your mind. She connects this directly to burnout, explaining that founders can be running a successful business while quietly approaching the edge. This moment sets up the episode's recurring theme: that sustainable growth depends on the founder's capacity, not just the business's.
The DASH Framework Explained (23:42–28:00)
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Nicola introduces her own framework for finding capacity in a business: Delegate, Automate, Stop, Hire — in that order. She walks through why founders should establish what could be delegated (and what they actually enjoy doing) before automating repeatable tasks with systems or AI, stopping tasks that no longer need doing at all, and only then considering hiring. She warns that skipping straight to hiring often means fixing symptoms rather than the underlying structure.
Delegation Is the Hardest, Most Important Step (28:51)
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Asked which part of DASH matters most, Nicola answers immediately: delegation. She explains why it's the hardest for founders — the trust required to hand over work you know will be done differently, even if it gets done well. This is one of the most quotable exchanges in the episode and speaks directly to any founder who has said "nobody can do it as well as me."
Avoiding the "Mini-Me" Hiring Trap (32:29)
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Phil and Nicola discuss why founders instinctively hire people like themselves, and why that backfires — a business full of fast-moving, entrepreneurial thinkers rarely gets the detail work done. Nicola explains how she uses a profiling tool called Contribution Compass to understand a team's existing energy and hire to complement it, rather than duplicate the founder.
Health as the Foundation (39:04)
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Phil shares a story about an Australian founder he met who is on his third cancer scare, trying to sell his business while surviving on four hours' sleep a night. Nicola responds with her construction-industry analogy: if health is the foundation, you can't build on top of a weak one — the business will eventually tumble. This is a candid, human moment that reframes founder dependency as a health issue, not just a business one.
What Really Stops Founders Letting Go: Identity and Fear (45:50)
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Nicola names the emotional barrier behind founder dependency: identity. She explains that many founders fear that if they're not the person doing everything, they don't know who they are — and that clients, not just the founder, need to be brought along on the journey of trusting the business to run without constant founder access.
Nicola's One Piece of Advice: Pause (49:44)
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Asked for the single biggest piece of advice for founders listening, Nicola says: pause. Step out of the business, even briefly, and ask what your life looks like now and where you want it to get to. She links this directly back to vision — founders who set up a business with a vision can lose sight of it in the day-to-day grind of keeping things going.
A Vision of Founder Freedom: Nicola's Own Gîte in the Dordogne (53:48)
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Turning the coaching lens on herself, Nicola describes her own vision of founder freedom — a lifestyle business, freelance support to keep things ticking over, and a gîte in the Dordogne she'd like to work from for a couple of months a year within the next five years. She references Daniel Priestley's recent writing on lifestyle businesses as a model that no longer needs to be "sniffed at."
Sparkers, Scalers, Sustainers — A Message for Every Stage
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Across the conversation, Nicola's advice lands differently depending on where a founder is in their journey. For those just starting out, energy and hustle carry the business, but it's worth asking early who else is on the team and whether they could step in if needed. For founders scaling fast, the risk is moving too quickly without the structure or strategy to support it — cash flow, or burnout, tends to catch up eventually. And for founders further along, protecting what they've built often means uncoupling their own identity from the business at a pace that feels right for them.
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
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Lightly edited for readability. Filler words, false starts and crosstalk removed.
Phil Rose:
Welcome back to the newly rebranded Sparks for Growth podcast. As you know, we've rebranded this to emphasize what we do. It's all about growth. It's all about sparking and rekindling your passion for your business. And today I'm talking to someone who is going to help you rekindle your passion and understand how you can build capacity for growth in the future. So as we go through this conversation, you'll know what I mean. But today I'm welcoming Nicola Anderson to the podcast. Nicola describes herself as a business growth consultant who works with founder led businesses. targeting five million plus. So a lot of people out there who listen to this show will be eager to hear what's going on. We're talking about how do you continue to grow? And what Nicola does is help them build a business that grows without the founder as the hub and everything carrying on around them. It's all about creating capacity and creating freedom in the business, which as you know is something we always try to do, help people build that freedom so they can grow their businesses the way they want to without being constrained by what they used to know. So Nicola, welcome to the Sparks Regrow podcast.
Nicola Anderson:
Thank you Phil, it's great to be here.
Phil Rose:
Okay, and as you know, we've read out the shorter introduction there and we'll put the longer introduction in the show notes because there's a whole load of things you've done which I skipped over there in terms of your background and what got you here. And as Marshall Goldsmith says, what got you here won't get you there. But I believe what got you here will get you there because you've got a great background in construction and built environment. So before we start, you get tell me a bit about you. Who are you and what do you do?
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I run a consultancy called Capacity to Grow. And I work, as you said, with founder-led businesses that are at the 5 million plus mark that are where the founder is kind of stuck in the day to day. They really want more growth. They want more freedom potentially as well. But they certainly aren't able to achieve it where they are because I think, as we all know, what gets you to 5 million doesn't get you to 10 million plus because it's a different type of model, different type of part, but different. It's a different journey to go on, right? And so I've got here through 37 years in business. I counted it the other day. I thought, yes, I am old, yes. And 25 of those in the sort of construction and environment world. I kind of started off client side in FM. So, know, contracts, management, managing teams, managing people, managing facilities. and then kind of switched after a decade into the other side, into actual construction, particularly modular offsite construction. So delivering full turnkey solutions. A lot of it in the, well, all commercial sector. So all sorts of sectors from healthcare to education to, yeah, just commercial to manufacturing, many different clients like, know, Rolls Royce and... Gosh, the other ones don't spring to mind at the moment, but lots of them anyway. yeah, delivering full turnkey solutions really, which kind of got me into the other side of things and managing contractors. And I used to manage the commercial operation and project delivery. the whole 360 as well. So from winning the orders to actually delivering the orders as well and seeing that all the way through. I do have a very kind of full 360 view.
Phil Rose:
Lots of background, yeah. Okay.
Nicola Anderson:
on how to grow and scale businesses and what it takes to run a successful business really. And a lot of that comes down to people and teams and that I've certainly managed really large teams of up to 150 and portfolios of 50 million plus. So I kind of avert my stripes and now I kind of, yeah, I prefer to work with SMEs to help them kind of achieve their potential. I think that's a key thing for me. My why is about helping others achieve their potential for sure.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Thanks. Well, yeah. That was interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And we might come back to that why later, because, you know, we talk about purpose a lot on this podcast as being the thing that really drives people. So when you're talking about helping others to achieve their potential, I'm sure lots of people's ears will prick up because we've heard that same type of conversation from lots of people who do that thing, because it's the thing that engages people. So what was it that pushed you out of those larger organizations into doing it yourself? Because as you said, you spent 25 years in built environment, 37 years in total. So what prompted you to go and set up the consultancy in the first place?
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm. Yeah Yeah, I think it was a combination of things, if I'm honest. And it was kind of, I had that kind of post-COVID moment, you know, I think a lot of us have, haven't we? You know, and it's kind of, it seems almost like a lifetime ago now, isn't it? We all lived through COVID, but the construction industry carried on through COVID, you know, as people know, and it was a busy time. It was a good time. But I think, but even so, we still worked through COVID, you know, I did slow down, the whole world slowed down, didn't it?
Phil Rose:
Six and a half years ago, yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
And I think it gave you an opportunity to kind of pause and breathe and sort of think. And around that time as well, just after COVID, I lost my mum to MS, so she'd had it for a very long time. you know, and it was just kind of, and then sort of, you know, heading into my 50s as well, I just kind of had that moment where like, I kind of thought, I wonder what's next really? And I'd kind of, I've climbed my way kind of up to the boardroom and... kind of got as high as I kind of could do without then going to another business and starting again, not starting over again, but sort of repeating the same again and the same again. And I just thought, I'd really love to kind of like go out there and have a go on my own. it was kind of, yeah, it was a really kind of, should I, shouldn't I, should I, I? And it wasn't a quick decision either. But yeah, eventually I decided to kind of give it a go. And here we are five years later and my business has evolved through that time. And, you know, I work, although I predominantly work still with construction and built environment businesses, and that can be anything from a main contractor to an interior designer or an architect, for instance. I do work with other SMEs as well now that kind of seen my messaging have come to me, been referred to me, you know, everything from a Harley Street dental practice to a glasses manufacturer, which I find, you know, It's all really, really interesting because every business you work with, whether it be a sector you're familiar with or not, you learn something new and things that you can take along your journey to help others. And I think that's kind of, you and you make new connections as well. And I kind of find that I've certainly found that in the kind of self-employed freelance world, connections are everything really. I think then connections are everything in business if you think about it. I think when you're in corporate,
Phil Rose:
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they are. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
you know, in that world of big numbers and big business and big, you know, big teams, et cetera. Your connections are more internal and you probably don't even think about them. You don't even realize, yes, you have your clients and yes, you have your suppliers and you have those relationships. But I think you think of them more as relationships than connections. Whereas I, you know, I certainly feel like, you know, in the world that I operate in now, it is all about connections. It's all about the people we trust, the people we know, the people that we recommend. connections we make to people that help them go along their journey. And I think if we can be a small part of somebody's journey by connecting them with somebody else or connecting them with themselves more even, then I think that's really rewarding actually.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a really big point there about, know, when you, when you are that founder, that connection becomes more important. I set up my business in 2004, so 22 years ago now. And I think that's the key bit. only, when you step out of that corporate world, you realize you're on your own and there's a whole load of other jobs to do. But like you, before we came on air, you talked about, know, having to keep the marketing wheel turning during the summer. And that's the thing, isn't it? It's about those connections. You can't take your foot off the gas. So before we get to the podcast. What was it like day one when you set up your business? you stepped out of that FM world, you went into that, and it was just Nicola on her own. What was the feeling you had on day one when you set up your business as yourself? Yeah, yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
Mm-hmm. excitement, nervousness, think, naivety probably, which is probably wise, if I'm honest. I think if you knew too much about the kind of genuinely going to go on the risks you might take, that maybe it would stop you from going for it. I mean, I am ever the optimist. And so I always like to think that, you know, everything will turn out all right in the end. And so for me, I think that's massively helped me because I think if I was my husband certainly is more cautious by nature, which is probably a good thing. Two risk takers in the family kind of dynamic would not be good. But I think you do need a healthy dose of optimism and if you're going to go for it alone. Yeah, but you do need somebody kind of just keeping you in check as well.
Phil Rose:
That's always happened. My life's the same. I love that. I totally agree. Yeah, and I think, you that's it. You need that person, that risk taker on one side, but you need the cautionary piece on the other side just to hold you back. And I think you see that in businesses as well when people are building their businesses. I've seen it over the last 22 years. You often find there's the more reserved person behind the scenes who's keeping the beat, drumming the drum, keeping things in track. And there's always the wild guy out there in the front making the decisions that maybe we shouldn't be making, but you've got to get that balance. And I think that's the key bit. And interesting, I asked you that question for a reason about, what was it like on day one? Because every founder I speak to, none, often says to me, the feeling on day one was that combination of excitement and anxiousness or nervousness. It's that thing, hey, I'm stepping out. I've had a paycheck yesterday and today I've got to go and earn my keep. And I think there's a really big thing around that. I'm glad you fell into line and said excitement, because that's what everyone says. You know, I think about my day back in 2004 when I handed my notice in and set up my business that year. And it was...
Nicola Anderson:
I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
It was that combination of nervousness one side, but high excitement the other side and just get on and do it. But a healthy dose of optimism to guide you through.
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah. I think so. And that sense of freedom. And I think that, you know, that can either be on day one or that, or just kind of within that first month, you start to feel freer because you can make your own decisions, your own decisions. And it's like, kind of is almost that weight of I must do this. I must be here. I must do that now. That doesn't, I mean, yes, there are, there are things you must do in business, of course. But if you decide that actually today's not the day I'm going to do that piece of work.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, it's up to you. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
then that's your decision to make. And I think that the freedom it gives you gets lost somewhere in the journey as well sometimes. But it is, I think that's, it's liberating, I would say. It's quite liberating to have that feeling.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah. It is. And I love that. And you mentioned that word freedom. I think, know, we introduced you, we said about, you know, help people create the capacity and freedom. And I think this is interesting, isn't it? You know, when you set up your business, if you cast your mind back to why you set up your business, what was your rationale behind it? You said you went through that, you know, the post COVID setting up, losing your mum to MMS, there's a whole load of things going on for you. And you had time to think about it. So in your slow thinking process, because you know, it takes a long time, you didn't just step into it.
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. No.
Phil Rose:
What was the key reason why you set up your business? And I think this will lead us into that next piece of conversation around freedom. So where do you, where do you go back?
Nicola Anderson:
I think, yeah, I think that it was that opportunity to help smaller businesses. So I used to work with lots of smaller businesses because I used to use a lot of different contractors in the work that I was doing. And actually the relationships I built with them and the impact that them winning a big job or being part of a great project has on their business and them and their families is actually, for me, felt more rewarding. than the impact you were having on a larger corporate organization where, yes, lovely companies I've worked for, I'm not just, I'm not disincorporates, but you don't get to see the ultimate impact for the business owner or potentially the business isn't owned by a person, owned by, it could be owned by a joint venture, it could be owned by, yes, pension fund even.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, somewhere out there. Yeah, yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
So actually having a physical impact on somebody's, the outcome of somebody's family, somebody's life, I think that's really actually quite rewarding. And I think, know, when you actually start to think, well, actually I've got some knowledge here, I've got some skills here where I could do more of that, could help more businesses of that size, that starts to feel actually quite appealing and rewarding. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's interesting. And I love that, because you've got the knowledge to do it. So there was an emotional process you went through and the thinking process. Because the emotional process, you knew you could help, you saw the opportunity to work with small businesses, you saw what you could do with them, that word impact you use. But also that thinking process about, yeah, you've got some skills, you've built up a whole rack of skills that you could use to help these people in whatever form move forward. And I think that's an interesting thought. So what was it that drove you specifically to think about this word founder dependency? Because obviously you're now a founder.
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm Mmm.
Phil Rose:
you're five or so years in. And you talked before about, know, helping people build that capacity and that freedom, but you use that word founder dependency a lot. just, I know what it means, you know what means. What does founder dependency really mean for those business owners who are out there?
Nicola Anderson:
Yes? Yes? Yes, I do. Yeah. Yeah. And it's only really a phrase I've started using in the last sort of 18 months, I would say. And it's something that I've kind of come to realise that actually, this is, know, when you come back and you readdress, you look again at your marketing messages, and what is it I'm saying I do? I think, you your business evolves over time. I started off thinking that, you know, I was just helping with operational efficiencies. And then as know, the business kind of evolved and I've gotten more involved and, you know, I'm kind of like, well, let me help you with that commercial aspects as well. And then before you kind of know it, things have evolved. And then I started to realise actually at the crux of it all, what I'm really doing in helping businesses kind of move on from that sort of 5 million plus point is I'm helping the founder get out of the day to day. And that is the founder dependency that I talk about is like,
Phil Rose:
Yeah, I love that. Okay.
Nicola Anderson:
And you you see it in every business. It happens in every business. You know, I feel it. I'm sure you feel it where, you know, we start off maybe as a solopreneur. We do everything. And as the business starts to grow, you know, we might bring on people into the team. There might be other freelancers. They might, you might bring people into, you know, onto a payroll. But as things continue, you're still the point of contact. You're still the hub. People still come to you.
Phil Rose:
and Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
for all the answers, the direction, the decision making, you're still making all the decisions. And then as kind of business evolved, and that's fine, that works really well for a long while. But then you get to that point where, you you're around the 5 million and actually your team's now getting quite a decent size. It's normally five people, 10 people, possibly even more, as a lot of people coming to you with decisions to be made. There's a lot of different parts to the business that need direction, that need leadership, that need thought, time, energy, capacity. It becomes a lot as you're scaling. It actually starts to feel like quite a weight. This is what I found anyway, talking to founders, et cetera. It becomes a bit of a weight. becomes quite, it's pressure. You don't ever get to switch off. probably would dispute as well that, you as a business owner, you don't ever switch off. It's always in the back of your mind. Even if you do, you know, you're sat on a sun lounger and you have, you know, not touched your laptop even for a week, you're still in your head, still thinking about it. So I'm not suggesting you ever totally switch off, but it's that constant being on. You're constantly on. And after a while it has an impact because it starts to impact, you know, your ability to continue to grow because you're at max, you're maxed out.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, it's all thinking. Yeah, of course you are. Yeah. Hmm.
Nicola Anderson:
is that it can start to affect home life if you're struggling to balance that home and work life. And it starts to impact you personally. I've seen it before where founders kind of like, just don't have two minutes themselves to think in a day. They're just fighting fires all day long every day. Business is good and successful, don't get me wrong, but it's starting to approach burnout as well. And the way to get out of that is to actually, you have to actually do what you...
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, all the time. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Nicola Anderson:
the thing your body's telling you not to do, but you do have to stop. You have to pause and think about, okay, what's going on here and how can I make this better? And yes, you can go ahead and do that on your own. Of course you can, but it's often easier to do this if you've got somebody in your corner, somebody who's done it before, somebody who can support you on that journey, who can come in and look at things through a different lens, can hold a mirror up to you about what's really happening and can kind of make suggestions on.
Phil Rose:
Stop, yeah, too right, too right. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
what could be done to improve things and help you continue then to find the capacity within your business, find the capacity for you so you can continue to grow and achieve what your goals are. Now, for many people, the goal is that maybe building to exit and a business that has you at the middle of it all that the business is dependent on is not as valuable as a business where you can just walk away and thank you very much. Here's the business. If you're still part of it, if it's dependent on you, it'll affect the value, but also you're going to be tied into that business for longer than you probably want to be when you've done an exit. Yeah. So, yeah.
Phil Rose:
stuck in you. Yeah, and I think that's a really interesting point. That point around, you know, you can't get out of the business because if it is all about you, I think we see this so often, don't we, where people are stuck there. Let's come back to word capacity, because I think it's really interesting. So there's two things on there. Well, you're about curating the capacity, but you also before that, you talked about that stress and the issues that people bring home as well. Some people never notice that. they just work through it and they think this is normal. They think actually, you get your badge of honor to say you're working long hours and we've heard it in the past, people who putting in the hours and they say they're doing 70 hour weeks and they're working in their business. You and I probably now know that this isn't healthy. I now need to get my seven and a half to eight hours sleep a night and that makes me feel healthy and I can run my business better because of that. So what is it? What's the trigger that someone has to go through to recognize I need help? And specifically, I've been talking to a number of female founders of business over the last few months. So I've often noticed that men have a different propensity to this and I can speak from experience there obviously. But what do you notice and how do people step up and realize, A, they've got a problem and B, they need help.
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah, so I think in my experience, it is slightly different for male or female founders. I think that you're right. I think our generation particularly still have this view potentially, or is it something ingrained within us that feels like, you know, that we must work really long hours, or we must work really hard. And it's like you say, badge of honour and the rest of it. And it's like, it's what's ingrained in us, because that's how we've been brought up. That's the world we've been brought up in. I think the next generations that coming through have got a much more balanced view of what life should be. But I think that for a lot of founders, it starts to show up in your relationships away from work and your health. And I think it's somebody at home saying, we can't keep going like this, this isn't sustainable. It's impacting family life or it's impacting somebody's health. because the body is a marvelous thing, but it can only manage to run 110 % for so many years, those hours exactly, and then it'll tell you, something will happen and it'll tell you I'm not okay, you can't keep doing this to me. I do think, I don't like to kind do the same brush or anything, but I do think with female founders, I think they're a little bit better at sharing.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, then we're to break down. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
with other females potentially, you know, they're better at talking out and talking to others and saying, you you're okay. And I think, you know, obviously, traditionally, particularly in the industries that I come from, that's not been so easy for men to actually have that conversation and say that. But I do feel, yeah, it's the life away from work that it starts to suffer. It's not work, the business will keep going and you're giving in all those hours and the business keeps growing, et cetera. And then it's the self-reflection yourself, you're starting to miss out on, maybe you can't make the family holiday or you do go and then you never really switch off and you're not present or you can't make sports day. Little moments that should be really important, they start to add up and you start to think, I think... And as we said at the beginning, as a business owner, somebody's created your own business, you want that freedom and that flexibility, that fact that you're not owned by anybody and you can make your own decisions. And all of a sudden the business is owning you and you're not getting to do those things and the balance is off. think that, and then you start to think, actually, I think I need to take a look at this as something that needs to be done about this. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, recognize the problem. I think that it's really interesting because all of those things, know, there's a lot of people listening to that, we've experienced that at some stage and some of the businesses we've talked to here, you know, they've gone past this, they're scaling up and they're on their third or fourth businesses. But that, that founder mentality is really interesting, isn't it? That, that we've been brought up to work harder, but also we have a view that we need to work harder because we're trying to build our business and you've got to hustle. You've got to get in there and do it. And in the early days you do need to do that, but you also need to get that balance. And I think that's the key because when you become that hub,
Nicola Anderson:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. You do. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
That's when the business starts to fall over. So the one thing you said there is you know, it's your outfine units the family life and outside of works that suffers I also think there's a bit there that the internal bit suffers because at the end of the year the blockage is at the top of the bottle and if you're the hub as you use that word things have to flow through you and when you it flows through you stuff doesn't get dumb so I wonder and Thinking about that you've identified if you're a founder you've identified as a problem. You recognize as an issue What's the thing you do, Nicola, to help those business owners when they do eventually pick up the phone and say, Nicola, I need help. What does the doctor do to help solve the problem?
Nicola Anderson:
Yep. I generally start with what would you like your life to look like? Now that's a really big question, but it doesn't have to be a big answer. It's more a case of, okay, so this is where your business is at. Where are we trying to get to? And I think it's not about what is your goal. It's bigger than that. It's like, what's your vision? You know, where are we actually trying to get to? And if it's a case of, you know, well, you know, I just want the business to continue as it is, but I don't want to be sort of, you know,
Phil Rose:
Ooh. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
in it five days a week. That's one kind of vision. Or it might be bigger than that. It's like, want to sell. I want to exit in five years time. And that's, you know, because I want to go and live in Portugal and play golf. Lovely. Great. Okay. Fantastic. Yeah. So it's kind of where we're trying to get to, I think is really important. And then it's okay. then it's a case of, right, okay, we get that. Okay. So now where are we now? Let's have a look at where we are now. And for me, there's
Phil Rose:
Yeah, wonderful for some people. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
always, always a piece around structure. It's okay, who's in your business, who are the key people, know, and you know, who does what and who's coming to you. What is the business reliant on you for? And that's, yeah, exactly. What parts of the business are you involved in? Generally, it's most of them. And then it's establishing, okay, and to what degree. And then I've got a framework that I work through with people.
Phil Rose:
Okay. Yeah, okay. Where are you on the hub?
Nicola Anderson:
that helps to kind of unpick all of this really, because when somebody's asking you these questions, it's like, oh, I don't know, I'm just really busy and it all comes through me it can like, because you're at that point where you just help me type thing, you know? And it's like, okay, so let's unpick it. So yes, I do have a framework which people find really helpful, which hopefully your listeners might find helpful too, which is called the Dash Framework. And we look at, once we've established kind of what's coming to you, what parts of the business,
Phil Rose:
Okay, tell us more. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Nicola Anderson:
it's then starting to unpick it. Now you might do this collectively and look at the whole business. You might do it at sort of a department at a time. look at the commercial aspects first. eventually, sorry, essentially what we start with is D and delegate. You know, what is coming to you that actually we could be delegating? Now that's a big question for a founder and actually because it's like, well, I don't want to let go of anything. Nobody's going to be able to do it as well as me. So there's a lot to unpick with that. And it's a case of, okay, so first off, let's just establish what could be delegated, not how we're going to do it. but what could be? And there's also a really important question that I always ask around is like, what do you actually enjoy doing? Because when you look at it on paper, and you might say, well, that's not a task. Let's keep easy. Somebody enjoys doing their social media posts. They quite like it. Cup of coffee in the morning, I quite like engaging on LinkedIn and doing my posts for the week. And if you were looking at it on paper, you might say, that could sit with, you know. with Jack in this department, he can do that for you. And he's like, well, actually, I really, really enjoy that. That's something that I really enjoy doing. And I kind of, you know, it comes easy, I'm in flow. So we're not looking to delegate that then. We're looking to, it depends on the goal. If we're trying to exit and you're trying to get out of everything, then of course we will. But I think that there are key questions like that as well, because there's no point in building a business you don't enjoy either. So delegation is a whole piece. And part of being able to delegate is being able to trust your team and to trust your team.
Phil Rose:
Anybody else? Yeah. Okay.
Nicola Anderson:
You need to have the right people in the right holes, obviously. Square pegs in square holes, round holes in round holes. And we also need to be able to have the data and the visibility to trust that things are happening. So if you're not doing it, I can log on, I can see that it is happening. So that visibility piece. And it's also really important. So if you've got somebody that's in a business that wants to travel more maybe, or spend more time out of the business, but still wants to own the business, they need comfort in the fact that, you know, they can see what's happening in the business and all as well. so visibility. there's lots that goes in around, you what can we delegate and how can we delegate it? And then there's also, as part of that visibility and, you know, part, there's kind of automation as well and AI of course now too. And it's like, you know, that's the A in Dash. And it's like, you know, what are repeatable tasks that are happening in your business? What are things that you do, you know, people do every day or every week that we can find. that systems can do for us or AI could do for us, we could automate. And this all comes down to finding the capacity to do these things. But at this point, we're just looking at what could be done. This is kind of like, yeah, we're looking at the whole picture here. And then as you stop, because when you've grown a business over for, you know, five, 10, 15 years, I guarantee you there's things happening in your business. Actually, if you stop and pause and look at it, they don't actually have to be done anymore. It's like, why do we do this?
Phil Rose:
Yeah, okay, so this is the analysis effector at this stage. Hmm.
Nicola Anderson:
It's like, is this data you're collecting in this spreadsheet available elsewhere in the business? Well, yes, we can get that from our finance system. We can get that in Xero or whatever. that okay? Okay, so why are we capturing it in a spreadsheet as well as, that's a small example, but you know, it's things that have happened because we've always done it that way, which is because we've always done it that way doesn't necessarily mean we always need to keep doing it that way. So it's kind of what could we stop doing? And what quite often happens is somebody will sort of say, well, I need more people. need, you know, I'm so busy.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, yeah. duplications.
Nicola Anderson:
I need more people in my team. I need to be able to delegate to, you know, to somebody. need somebody, you know, new in the role. And actually once you, I always say, look, that's, we've come to that. We don't start with that. We go through delegate, automate, stop. And then we can see actually what does need doing. What can we set, what can we allocate elsewhere? Who can do what? And then if we're left with it, okay, so there's nobody to take on this task. Then we'll look at hiring or. or outsourcing and that's where the H comes in. Because I think, you know, we can all, you know, be guilty of this where you kind of rush to like get somebody in to do a job and actually all you're doing is a sticky plaster because maybe what's happening is they're fixing the immediate need and then in kind of give them three, six months time, whatever, and that task is sorted or those systems and processes are in place and all of a sudden they're coming to you saying, what would you like me to focus on next? And that... you've got another wire coming into you as you know into the hub you know you've got another more decisions to make more people come into you they're like actually I don't yeah I don't know and it's actually if we just started the other way around you probably would have had a better fit a person into the business so yeah but that's how I start yeah
Phil Rose:
Yeah, it causes more problems. Yeah. rather than higher. And which of those is most important? So delegate automate stop higher, which is the one you say, hey, this is the thing that most or every founder should be thinking about right now. Delegation, okay, we always hear that, we? Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
Delegation, delegation. think, and I think, yeah, I really do. And I think that it's the hardest one as well because we're used to doing everything ourselves. We know that if we do it, gets done. If we do it, gets done the way we want it done. You know, if we're going to delegate it to somebody else, there's a huge element of trust. You're trusting somebody else with your business and you might have great team, great people, but actually you've got to let go. And if you've been the one... the person that's been responsible for the hustling, like we've said, that, you know, the person that's been responsible for growing the business, the person that's responsible for making sure that the, you know, you're winning enough business, you're invoicing enough business, you know, you're the person making sure the business is viable and you're starting to let go of things. It's scary. It is scary.
Phil Rose:
Hmm. Yeah, it is right there. what, so that word trust is interesting, isn't it? Because you said, you know, we like to do it our way. It's, know, I often say, you know, the business is your baby. know, even, even the most experienced mother-in-law doesn't get to look after the baby if the mother doesn't want to or the father wants to, you know, it's your baby. So, so what's the key thing that you would recommend for business owners right now to go away from this podcast and say, okay, this is what you need to put in place to start that trust process to enable you to delegate.
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it's really important to look at the structure in your business. So who are your people? And is the structure that you have today the right structure for where you want to get to? Because quite often I find it's not. And I find that when you start off as a SME, when it's a small business and you're of quite small team around you. You kind of, you know, it's more than just a team. become quite, you know, it's a unit, your friends, know, relationships and bonds that have grown over a number of years. And I think that there's a case of, you've just, people have kind of stayed in the same role or you've kept them in the business because, you know, you feel loyalty to them and that's admirable and absolutely you should. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do that, but I think it's a case sometimes of like, you've just... stuck things on, stuck people on, stuck roles on as you've continued to grow. And actually you're perhaps at a point now where actually we have to go back to the drawing board a little bit. And what does the business need to go forward? And what are the roles we need? What's the structure we need? Who should be going in these roles? Where do we have holes? And I think that's a really key piece of work. And it's uncomfortable sometimes. And it's something that's not quick necessarily to sort.
Phil Rose:
Mm-hmm. Okay, unpick it. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
But the number of businesses that I work with where it is, know, the structure doesn't quite fit where they want to go anymore. Or there's frustrations with the team because so-and-so isn't doing it, whatever. And then you say, okay, have they got job descriptions? no, no, we haven't got job descriptions. Because why would you if it's just a team of one, two, three of you, and it just kind of evolves from that. Or some people do, some people don't, or the jobs that they're doing don't match the job descriptions that they have.
Phil Rose:
Hmm. Yeah, small business. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
I think that there is a whole piece to do around, know, people are your biggest resource, right? Without your team, you wouldn't have a business and you need to look after your team and do the right thing by your team, of course. But it's making sure that, you know, are they happy? Are they doing the right role? Are they doing what they want to be doing? And how is that benefit in the business in you? And making sure those things fit together. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
We all say it. Yeah. Okay, I love those three things actually. I love that, you how's it benefiting you? Are they happy? Are they enjoying what they're I think there's three key elements of that. And moving on slightly in that case, one of the things you and I talked about previously was about, you know, recruiting to grow. And you talked about, you know, sometimes hiring isn't the best decision. How do we stop business owners hiring people just like them? Because I often talk about finding array players. And therefore you might try and find the same person as you because, I'm really good at it. So I need a team of people like me, the clones. But you and I know that doesn't work. And we've often seen this. So what needs to happen and how do you overcome that process? I think is the question we need to ask.
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, yeah, you're absolutely right. We're all guilty of doing it. We kind of, gravitate towards people who are like us. We do it, you know, in all walks of our lives, right? And I think it's really important that when you're recruiting, you actually are very sure of the role that you're recruiting and the right sort of person for that role. If I, I personally am, I've high activating energy, you know, I kind of, I can have ideas all day long. I move fast. I think quick and I move things along quickly or as quickly as the environment allows. I can do detail, but that's not in my flow. I have to sit down and really concentrate and I'll do that. If I'm asking somebody to come and join my business and I want them to be a financial controller, for instance, I'm not looking for somebody that's got the same energy as me. I want somebody who's going to be... more diligent than I am, it's going to take more time with the detail that's going to be more thorough in their approach. It's like, otherwise I'm going to have something that's going to make quick decisions and those decisions are going to be potentially they're going to miss something that's going to have a financial implication on the business. So the way I make sure that I do that, so when I'm working with businesses with SMEs is we make sure the job description is right first off, you know, and it needs to be detailed enough so that we attract the right people. It needs to be written for the type
Phil Rose:
front. Yeah, that's the key please.
Nicola Anderson:
person that we are looking to attract. I think that's really important. And I think also we need to remember that we're actually, are selling our business to potential employees as well. can't, I think I come across a lot of people that just put a job ad out, whatever you supply in, it's like I'm not getting the right people. And it's like, you know, they're not going to just walk through your door. You need to, you know, you need to show them why they should come through your door. So you need to sell the business and you need to sell what you're offering. as much as they need to sell themselves to you. I think that gets lost sometimes. It's like, well, you know, I've got a job. Why doesn't anybody want the job? And it's like, you know, it's a two way thing, right? So that's quite key. And I use a profiling tool. There's many of them out there, obviously, but I use one called Contribution Compass, which helps me to understand the team dynamic currently within the team. So I can see where the skill sets currently are. And then when I'm, you know, interviewing, helping, when I'm helping to build out teams, if I'm interviewing,
Phil Rose:
I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a two-way thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Nicola Anderson:
then I'll potentially, we'll profile people as well to make sure that we're kind of attracting the right kind of personalities and candidates to come in for the right role to complement the existing team. Because as you say, otherwise you end up with, know, and if it's the founder recruiting, a lot of founders tend to be very entrepreneurial, very creative in the way that they think and do and, you know, they move fast, et cetera. Now you can imagine if you had a whole business of those, would be fun, it would be exciting.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sort of a clash. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
They have lots of great ideas. I'm not sure an awful lot would get implemented or perhaps implemented well.
Phil Rose:
I think there's a lot of problems there. And it's interesting because yeah, we always see that, don't we? And it's a bit like you said earlier about, when you set up your business, you're very lucky to have a partner who's slightly more risk averse than you can hold you back, but not in the right way. And I think you need to get that balance. The legs to the stool need to be all in place. It's not just a one-legged stool, effectively. So one of the issues we often face, and I asked you that question about, you know, how did you feel on day one when you started and you said...
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm, yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, for sure.
Phil Rose:
you know, that combination of anxious, sorry, the nervousness and excitement, that feeling between the two. At some stage in every business owner's journey, they hit some form of barrier and then they recognize they've got a problem and they need to ask for help. Now we know some business owners who never do that and they just trundle on through and they just keep themselves small and that's okay. What's the implication for business owners who don't recognize they've got an issue in the first place? Because it's all very well talking about delegation, automation, stopping and... and hiring, but some people never recognise this. Have you got examples there of people you've seen who just don't ask for help and they feel it's too late?
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah, no, and I think... Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think in the industry and the construction industry that happens a lot. And I think that, I think cashflow is a big issue. And I think that if you don't ask for help and you know, if you particularly, you know, from my experience, the construction industry, if you don't ask for help or if you overstretch yourself because you're just chasing, you're chasing work all the time, then it can come back and bite you. And it's not through poor management or it's not through lack of opportunities, lack of orders, lack of jobs, lack of projects. It's just because you're trying to go too quick and you don't have the foundations in place to be able to sustain that. It's like, I think, you know, when you're a business owner and people come to you with opportunities, know, it's your gut instinct is to say yes. And I think that, you know, if you're If you're a business where you are the service, you run out, you know, you potentially, if you're selling time for money, as a lot of business owners do, certainly as, you know, as I kind of do, it is limited. can't, there is only so much you can say yes to. So I do find that there are some that will say yes to too many things. And then that kind of all starts to tumble down because you can't give the level of service that you would want to, that people would expect. And then that can affect your reputation. And obviously, as we know, that is everything.
Phil Rose:
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially that one person.
Nicola Anderson:
But equally, yeah, if you're providing, you know, let's just say, you know, you're a contractor perhaps and you're providing electrical services and you've kind of, you know, you're said to too many jobs very quickly because you're ambitious, because you want to grow and scale, you can start to affect your cash flow because you're, you know, you're laying out for labour, you're laying out for supplies and you know, and you're working with a main contractor maybe or a house builder potentially or somebody. that's, you know, the 90 day terms and then all of a sudden you're starting to run into, you know, a sticky situation. Yeah. So, you know.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. cash flow issues. Yeah. I think it's really interesting because cash flow is one thing. think what I've seen over the years as well, think cash is one thing, but I think it's that the health issues that stack up as well, that lack of time where people are trying to commit it all. As we said earlier, they're trying to pile it all on thinking they're the only one who can do it. So often I've seen it where people, yeah, they just get ill. They start making third decisions. I was talking to an Australian gentleman the other day. I met him in London, he'd come up from Melbourne. He was on his third cancer scare. He said he's trying to sell the business, it's taking a long time and he's been surviving on four hours sleep a day at the moment. And he's been doing this for month, he's only 60. And I thought, you don't look 60, he looks a lot older. And from my perspective, it's almost that piece that he hasn't had the support he's needed early enough and therefore he's just trying to graft away doing it all. And I do see that often where people are just you know, the health takes second fiddle effectively to what the business should be doing and they as you said earlier We have this work hard mentality across the world where we think we've got to do these things But actually health is most important thing and you can't run your business if you haven't got your health And interesting when you use that word foundation a few times, which I think is interesting when you talk to me You you've come from a construction background But if health is the foundation, you can't build your building on top of a weak foundation
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah. No, no. Absolutely not, absolutely not, because it will all tumble down. And if you think about, know, obviously we've been talking about how businesses that grow around the founder, if you're not well, if your health is suffering and you're not there, it just will all tumble away around you. If you're lucky, you've got some really good people in your team that will just, you know, they will grow out and they will do their best to keep things ticking along and your business might survive. you know, but it might not and it might not even be, you know, and when you look at that scenario, it might not even be your own health. say, yes, we have to look after ourselves. And yes, have to their own health. But what about if somebody near and dear to you, they start to have health issues and they need you. And, know, and you've got the business pulling at you because it needs you in the business of, you know, what an awful dilemma to be in, you know, so yeah, I think health is really important. Yeah, yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. It is, it's one of the critical things. And it's interesting, it's having that capacity to do the things you want to do, as you mentioned earlier, you know, whether it's kids sports days or days out with your partner or days out with your parents and, you know, you've been through, you know, the death of your mother effectively and, you know, having those things happen, we have to do these things because actually it's part of life and actually often the business gets in the way, which is a hard thing, but the family life should be one of the most important things for us to drive through.
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we were saying, weren't we, just before we came on camera about how our kids are older now. And it's like, the time goes so quickly, you don't get it back. Before you know it, they want to go on their own holidays. don't want, you know, not they don't want to spend time with you, but they don't have so much time to spend with you. They're living their own lives, doing their own jobs, you know. And it's like, that time's gone. You can't get it back, you know, so it's precious.
Phil Rose:
See you now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. It's interesting when I ask you about why you sell out your business. If I go back to my, said at my business, cast your mind back 22 years ago, I was, you know, I was working in a small business in Banbury in the middle of England. And I decided actually I wanted to do something different. And the reason I did is because I just had a newborn baby in 2002. So two years later, I was realising I wasn't, you know, was commuting to Banbury, which a lot of people commute the other way. was commuting to Banbury. working there and I decided I need to run my own business. So for me it was about freedom of time. Money wasn't the biggest driver then, it was all about having time with the kids or with the kid at that time. And it's really interesting when we think about that because I think people go into business for a number of different reasons. One is time. Some people go into business because they want to make more money thinking they can do it better than the other person. But I often find that doesn't work out and again I think about when my second child was born in... 2005 I'd been running my business for a year and a half and I remember my wife coming down to me say Along the lines of you need to get that proposal finished. I think the baby's coming tonight And that was that that story at that time that I was busy working Because I had to fit the time in you know, and I wasn't getting that balance around time I I would say I wasn't exactly stressed, but I was stressed trying to get stuff done But you know, that was a revelation for me that I was I wasn't sitting at the hospital bedriding proposal, but that evening I'd been doing it and the baby arrived two o'clock in the morning. And I think there's something there around that time and money aspect, which I think a lot of people forget about, but also that's why they go into business in the first place.
Nicola Anderson:
Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I quite a few businesses that come to me that are, they don't want to retire. In fact, you know, I find a lot of people, don't like the R word at all. It's like, oh no, you But they do want to kind of take a bit of a step out of the business. They don't want to be out in the business completely. They may want to cut back the number of days they do. They want to spend more time with, you know, grandchildren by them probably, or they want to spend time, you know, traveling more with their partner. They just want more of a balance. so, and for them, it's a case of, how, that, quite a lot of that is to do with what we said about the visibility piece. It's like, I don't want to be in the business every day anymore. I want the business to be able to be sustainable without me in it. I need help to kind of make that happen. I need to look at my structure. I need to, you know, potentially I need to bring in somebody. I maybe need to bring in a COO. or maybe a fractional COO or maybe I'll go in and say, well, okay, it's time for a management team or senior leadership team. They don't have that maybe it's very flat, but they also need that visibility piece so that they can trust that everything is well when they're away. And that's where systems come into, by then they've probably got the processes, et cetera, but it's about that visibility piece and making sure that the data that's being captured is right tater and that they can see it from wherever they are. And with AI now you can achieve so much.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's interesting. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
which is fantastic. So yeah, so I do get a lot of people who are kind of, you just at that stage in life where they just want a different balance, but they don't want to stop. They don't want to sell necessarily, or they might be wanting to get their business ready for the next generation that are in the business. So they want to start to think about stepping away and then, you know, the next generation, they're already in the business, but they need support and developing to become the best versions of them and good leaders, good managers. as well and supporting them. So yeah, I think there's lots of interesting dynamics as to why a founder would not want a business to be dependent on them anymore. But it does generally come down to kind of, you know, they either want growth or they want freedom. But growth gives you freedom anyway. So yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, isn't And I love the fact that you say, you know, had that conversation with them around to start with, know, what does that vision of the future look like? And you talked about there, you know, you don't often use that word, but I think that's the key thing. It's understanding, you know, paint a picture what it looks like. And you said, you know, you said just as an example, you said, they might want to go and play golf in Portugal. What type of things do you find stop people going to achieve those things? You mentioned trust earlier, but what else stops them?
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
putting in place the things that they need to do to enable them to create that future for themselves.
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah, I mean, that's a really interesting question, actually. I think that, I think there's a fear piece, a fear of, you know, this is me, this is my identity. If I'm not being this person doing this, who am I? So that's quite a big piece. It's definitely an identity thing. There's definitely then the, know, well, you know, if I'm not here, the business... you know, what is the business, you know, if I, you know, and I guess that does come back to trust a little bit, you know, can I trust other people to run the business if I'm not here? But equally is like, you know, if somebody is such a big personality, is such a big part of the business, if they're not there, what, you know, you've got to do that. You've got to do a bit of an integration piece with your clients as well. It's like getting your clients to be able to, to trust.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, without me.
Nicola Anderson:
that way as well that the business will operate when you're not contactable every five minutes because you've made yourself too accessible.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, because you're on the phone. Yeah. I think that's a really big thing actually, isn't it? know, that identity coming up there when we built our business, we've been doing it for years, that's what we're known as. And therefore use that word fear. People are fearful of what's next, which actually probably comes into that retirement word as well. Most founders don't want to retire and they want to do something else to keep them busy, keep them active.
Nicola Anderson:
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. No. Absolutely. And I think there is that piece as well around, you you can get bored. Obviously, we can as human beings, you know, we, we excel when we are learning, you know, kind of our minds need, need to be learning to stay active and stay well. And I think that, you know, if you've been running a business for a good number of years, and it's kind of the same in same day in day out, you get to the point where actually you think like, actually, I quite like to get involved in some different ventures. I don't, you know, maybe it's like, still love this business. I still want this business, but I'd like, you know, like to explore some other ventures. Maybe you want to look at acquisitions or you just want to, you know, want to go and maybe get involved in other businesses in some way or other, just other activities, maybe away from it. Exactly. And I think that, you know, that, that can be something that, you know, that's wanted, needed as well. And again, it's like, how do you balance your time?
Phil Rose:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, outside of work. Hmm.
Nicola Anderson:
Let's just say you're going to acquire another business or you're going to be part of, maybe going to be an advisor in another business, for instance, how are going to balance that time? Have you got the infrastructure within your own business to maintain that for you when you're not there?
Phil Rose:
Yeah. which is the key bit, isn't it? And it's interesting you do that word infrastructure because a lot of that comes down to capability of the team as well. And what, when you mentioned about trust earlier, I often see that people don't trust the people in their team because they don't think they're good enough. Now we know they are, but they don't trust them. So what have you seen being done to help people step up their capabilities to enable the founder to trust them more?
Nicola Anderson:
Yes. Yes. Hmm. Yeah, and think there's, know, personal development is a really big thing and I think you need to develop your team. If you want somebody to step into another role within your business, you can't just say, today you're this job and then tomorrow you're that job. You have to go on a journey to be able to learn and develop and move into that role. And that might involve some training, some coaching as well. So I a lot of work with middle managers, helping them get to that point where they can then step up into another role, which can then allow the founder to step back a bit. as well. you know, developing of individuals, giving them the confidence, giving them the, you know, the tools and the skills to be able to, to step up and take on more responsibility is quite key as well, as giving them the responsibility, it's giving them the tools to be able to achieve that and do that as well. So yeah, yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. So let's just come full circle in that case. So we've now got a whole load of steps that you can put in place there to help people then go through the Dash framework, understand how they need to delegate. If founders are listening to this now, they've got themselves in that position. What's the biggest piece of advice you would give them at this stage? The number one thing they need to just go and do or think about.
Nicola Anderson:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, pause, just take, know, give yourself, step out of the workplace, you know, go and even if, you know, if you can take yourself away for a few days, you know, where you can just stop, think, pause, or, you know, if you can't achieve that to just, you know, go and sit, you know, in a coffee shop with a nice view somewhere and just actually stop and pause and think about, okay, this is, what is my life now? And where do I want it to get to? Okay.
Phil Rose:
cause. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
And I think that's kind of almost like that vision piece. Or if you had the vision when you created the business, where are you on that journey? Are you headed in the right direction? Have you been moving along at a timeframe that works well for your goals and your vision? And I think it's just take a moment to see where you're at now, because when you're in the business of day to day, you're just doing the same thing and you're kind of, you're keeping it going and you're keeping the business, you know. viable, you can lose sight of why am I doing this? What was my reason? So I would say do that, just pause and think. And then I think, know, it's a case of, okay, so all right, I know where I am, I know where it is I wanted to get to, and then what's your strategy? How are going to get there? Because it doesn't just happen, you know, so I think there's a strategy piece that is always quite key as well. When I'm working with founders, it's like, so this is where we're at, that's where we want to get to, you know, what's the strategy for getting there? Is it just more of the same? Are we looking to attract different client base? Are we looking to change the offering? How are we doing this? Because potentially it's not more of the same if you want to keep scaling. It's looking at diversifying. It's looking at your current business model, is that fit for growth? So there's a bigger strategy piece that's needed as well. I think that can be quite key as well.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's different again. I love that. Yeah, I love that. So that pause, stop, think, pause, and that strategy, how we can do it, because I think that's the key bit that people haven't thought about, but they've not given themselves time, because in the busyness of running the business, they've not given them time to think about the business, which is why they need to reach out. So that's the Peter advice to the founders that are out there. What about you? If you were to go back and give yourself some, give the younger nickler some advice, what's the advice you would give young nickler?
Nicola Anderson:
Absolutely, yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. I think my advice is more about reassurance, that it'll be okay that you can do this. think it's a case of build your network, that's really, really key. I think, and that doesn't mean going networking, you know, because a lot of people are like, you know, that's great, if that's your thing. For a lot of people, that's all I can't know. But it is about making connections. It is about building your network. It's about, you know,
Phil Rose:
OK. Yeah. Yeah, connection.
Nicola Anderson:
reaching out to people, whether that be through LinkedIn, through people locally, through people you admire, most people will give you time for a coffee and a chat and reach out to people, ask others, learn from others, listen to great podcasts like this, suck up information, keep learning, be open, be open-minded.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
Nicola Anderson:
That would be, I think it's have curiosity, have curiosity about the world around you, businesses around you, make good connections and believe in yourself. Yeah. Cause you know, when your, when your income is dependent on it, I think you kind of said this at the beginning, didn't you? When you're, you are responsible for your salary, for earning that money during the course of life, you have to do it. So, you know, it makes you do things that perhaps feel a little bit uncomfortable as in, you know, following up on a quote or, you know,
Phil Rose:
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta do it. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
asking somebody if you can put a proposal in, etc. Those little uncomfortable things. But the more you do them, the more comfortable they become. And I think it's okay. So you just got to go for it. Yeah, you got to go for it. You know, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah, Just gotta get out there and do it. Yeah. I love that. And I love that thing you said there. It's gonna be okay. You know, it's paraphrased what you said there. Cause actually, you know it will be. I know you've done this now for a good number of years and you've seen us as experienced. So looking ahead in that case, know, here we are, we're recording this in July, 2026. Looking ahead, where do you see the future in terms of your founder freedom going? Because you're a one woman band, you're doing it on your own.
Nicola Anderson:
Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Phil Rose:
You don't want to be working 168 hours a week. So what does the future look like for you?
Nicola Anderson:
No. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. So I do have some amazing support from a freelance business manager. She's fabulous, keeps things ticking along when I'm kind of out on client sites. So I think that, you know, there is fantastic freelance support out there. I don't have the desire right now, who knows, things might change in another five years to kind of actually build anything too much bigger than I've already got. think, you know, I think sometimes it's about knowing when enough is in, when you have enough, you know, it's like, you know, just
Phil Rose:
and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicola Anderson:
the bills are paid and I'm comfortable enough, thank you. I don't need to be giving more hours over to this sort of thing, know, as hard as I might work. And for me, yeah, I'd love to have a little jeet in France one day that I could pick up my laptop and go and work over there a couple of months of the year would be nice. So yeah, I think that's kind of enough for me. I'm not somebody that's chasing a big grand exit or anything like that, but I'm more than happy to help others do it.
Phil Rose:
Lovely. I would love that.
Nicola Anderson:
So for me, think it's a lifestyle business for me. I think that, you know, think Daniel Peece, he didn't, his last book was on a lifestyle business. it's that, because I think there used to be a case of, know, you know, that kind of got sniffed at a little bit, you know, a lifestyle business or what's that? It's not, it's insignificant, doesn't matter. But actually, you know, you can be turning over, you know, a decent income and still have that balance. And I think that balance is really important. Yeah, for sure.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Yes, it was. Yeah, of course you can. Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I guess, know, that that's you eat in France, you know, and if I was if I was pushing you with my coaching hat on, I'd be asking you whereabouts is it and by when.
Nicola Anderson:
Well yes, I can tell you it's in the door doing. But by when? That's a good question. Maybe within the next five years would be nice.
Phil Rose:
nice. Wow, okay, so we need to have this conversation in 2030 and just make sure you've the invite out there. That's lovely. Nicola, what a great conversation. Thank you. So we've talked about Dash framework. We've talked about how you want people to just pause and stop. And I think there's a whole load of messages in there for business owners in terms of making that first step of recognizing they've got a problem in the first place. Thank you. How would people find you? We're going to stick this in the show notes for guests when they want to come look at this. But where do they go find Nicola Anderson?
Nicola Anderson:
Okay, yeah, let's do that. Yeah, the easiest place to come find me is on LinkedIn. So Nicola Anderson on LinkedIn. If you put Nicola Anderson Nottingham, I'll pop up or Nicola Anderson capacity to grow, I'll pop up and yeah, come find me there. And then you'll get the links to my website and everything from there. yeah, come find me, connect. Let me know you've watched the podcast. I'd love to know what you thought. But yeah.
Phil Rose:
Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you. Nicola, great conversation. Really enjoyed it. And yeah, I look forward to enjoying you finding out about the GTM France in the Dordogne in a few years time. But yeah, thanks for the conversation. Great one.
Nicola Anderson:
Hahaha. Amazing. Thank you so much for having me on. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.
Phil Rose:
You're welcome. Thank you.
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OUTRO
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Phil's closing takeaways, recorded separately and appended to the episode.
Phil Rose:
What an amazing conversation with Nicola. I think I learned more about how founder's syndrome really hurts people and stops their business growing. The key here is that you become the hub, you become the problem, you become the bottleneck. And I think we have to recognize that. So if you're listening to this and you're feeling like you're the spoke of the hub in your business, and the spokes will fire into you, what is it you need to do? How do you understand when you've got a problem and you are the problem? What is it you need to take care of? Nicola gave us one piece of advice at the end of the podcast. And she used that word pause. Take time out and go and think about what you want. And I then asked her about her vision for the future. Often when we've got a vision for the future, we can't see what we're trying to do. We often use the phrase, you can't see that label when you're inside the bottle. And as a business owner, you're in the bottle every day. It's a tough place to be. So think about what you need to do. Take time out today to understand where you're going. And when you need help, give me a call. We can talk to people like Nicola. We can help you develop your business. There's lots of tools out there. Obviously as a scaling up coach, we do a lot of this ourselves to help businesses grow, to help them scale beyond where they are today. Because actually when we talk about spark, scale, sustain, the key here is rekindling your spark, helping you scale and also then helping you sustain that momentum. Because the sustainability of your business relies on you getting out of the way. It doesn't mean you're going to sit on a beach or going to play golf in Portugal for rest of your life. if that's your thing you can do, but often it's around helping you understand how do you build a business that isn't reliant on you. And that's what Nicola talked about. I always say as a coach, I can't hold you accountable, but what I can do is ask you to think about what you need to do to develop yourself more than you've done today. Because maybe if you're that bottleneck in your business, now's the time to think about it. So take time out and as always, let me know your thoughts. How can we help? What messages can you pass on to other people? And on that note, Please feel free and good about sending this podcast to other people who you believe will benefit from it. There's a lot of founders out there who are stuck. We want to change the world. My purpose is to inspire transformation. If I can inspire more business owners to transform their lives into things they want, give them more time, less stress, more money, and more fun. That's what we're all about. Enjoy the show. Thank you for listening. I'm grateful to be here. And remember, if you haven't already, please subscribe. Because the more subscribers they get, the more people find this podcast. and the more we help transform the world.
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SEO & DISCOVERABILITY
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For use in episode pages, blog posts, show notes, and publishing platforms.
Keywords
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AI-Optimised Semantic Keywords
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- why do founders lose the freedom they started a business for
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Long-Tail Keywords (Great for Blog Posts, Episode Pages, and Social)
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- Why do I feel like I'm holding my own business back?
- What is founder dependency and how do you fix it?
- How do you know when it's time to step back from your business?
- Why does hiring people like yourself hurt your business?
- What's the DASH framework for founders?
- How do you build a business that doesn't depend on you?
- Why is burnout a warning sign, not a personal failure?
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END OF TRANSCRIPT DOCUMENT
Sparks for Growth Podcast | sparksbyignium.transistor.fm
Host: Phil Rose | igniumconsult.com
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