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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
What is up everybody and welcome to the
United States Department of Nerds where we
are for the people, by the people,
and of the people.
The universe is a dirty place and somebody
has to clean it up.
For Margo,
that means another day as an overworked,
underpaid,
intergalactic trash collector hauling
garbage across the cosmos and somehow
finding herself in the middle of disasters
that could threaten the entire universe.
But Margo's journey didn't begin among the
stars.
Creator Jim Wyden first started developing
the character more than two decades ago
before bringing Margo
Intergalactic Trash Collector to
Kickstarter in twenty fifteen.
What followed was an independent comic
that refuses to disappear.
Through crowdfunding, the direct market,
news stories, strange aliens,
space vampires,
and artwork from comic book legends like
Joe Sinat and Joe Statton,
Margot continued fighting her way back
into the readers hands.
Now,
eleven years after the first Kickstarter
campaign,
Jim is bringing those adventures together
in a hundred and twelve page collected
edition.
Margo, Intergalactic Trash Collector,
Apocalypse in Pink.
But this isn't just about looking
backward.
With the new Margo series planned for
twenty twenty seven,
Apocalypse in Pink represents both a
celebration of where this universe has
been in the launching point for where it's
going next.
But this isn't just about looking
backwards.
With the new Margo, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh.
Eleven years after Margo first made her
way into Kickstarter,
the universe is still a very dirty place,
and somebody still has to clean it up.
Ladies and gentlemen,
the Council of Nerds is now in session.
Jim, welcome to the USDA, my friend.
Oh, thanks for having me.
I got tongue-tied and lost there for about
half a second.
I had to get that intro out because
that was a good one.
I saw the cat behind you.
Oh, yeah.
I got two of them.
Like,
I don't know if you've seen the other
one.
Oh, yeah.
I see the other one.
I got five.
I got three of them.
And if it was up to my daughter,
I'd have five more on top of those
three.
So...
But let's dive into it, Jim.
So before Margo was an intergalactic trash
collector,
she started with sketches and notes going
all the way back to around two thousand
two under the working idea SCOW.
Yeah,
SCOW was the working title when I started
designing Margo as in, you know,
the garbage collection.
and you know in the harbor they do
in new york you see them out every
day yep and uh you know i was
as i started to develop the series and
things started going along i said why not
just call her margo and i talked to
a couple of friends of mine who were
creators like yeah go with just margo
intergalactic trash collector and you know
it's a long mouthful but
it works it works it works so well
it really does i had given a copy
to walt simonson he's like what a great
title for a book it's like well here
you go can i get a picture of
you holding it so yeah i did so
but this is a great piece of your
own history though buried in the premise
so you worked on a garbage truck when
you were younger to earn money to buy
comics
much of jim ended up in this overworked
underpaid trash collector and who would
rather just do her job but just keeps
getting herself dragged into all these
cosmic disasters
Yeah, I did.
My grandfather, my uncles, my father,
they had a family garbage business.
And as a kid,
I worked on the truck maybe for a
buck or two a day.
And that was like five, six comics,
you know, at, you know,
at twelve cents a piece.
And I would save up the money and
go.
And sometimes I'd even find comics in the
garbage and save.
That's cool.
Yeah.
It was an interesting job.
It was a dirty job,
but also kind of like it was a
little embarrassing to be the garbage
collector's kid, you know?
So a little bit of that of Margo.
And Margo doesn't want to be a trash
collector.
Part of her backstory is that she wanted
to be a pilot for the Corps,
and she couldn't make it.
She got kicked out.
I'm developing a story about how she got
kicked out.
And then her mom gets her a job
with the –
Intergalactic Waste Management Company,
sort of modeled after our own collection
trash company around here with the bins,
you know.
And so her mom gets her sort of
she's sort of a nepo baby.
She gets a job, gets a job,
and her mom's a little overbearing.
Won't forget it.
And, you know,
keeps reminding her of what she owes and
how good the company's been to them.
And so, you know, she doesn't want to,
she wants to pilot a ship.
So she ends up, she can't,
she can't work for the Corps.
So she basically becomes a trash
collector.
Still gets to fly,
but hates the job doing it.
I love it.
The whole premise of this is so amazing.
But Margot isn't this traditional squeaky
clean science fiction hero.
She's opinionated, reckless, capable,
but sometimes creates the very problems
that she has to get herself out of.
Who is Margot, though,
when you strip away the spaceships,
the aliens,
and this cosmic insanity of her world?
Well, when they say, you know,
the expression goes,
write what you know about it.
And I would say there's a lot of
me in that character because I've made a
lot of rash decisions.
I've done a lot of things that,
you know,
spur at the moment that got into trouble.
And so what happens with Margo in the
first issue,
she makes a decision to get out of
trouble,
but that rash decision
causes more trouble down the line and it
begins to snowball into something that
endangers the universe.
So it deals with the repercussions of your
decisions.
Margo seems to step in it all the
time and actually gets a little further
into trouble than she should based on her
decisions.
I can identify.
I think we I'm prior service.
So I can remember being that eighteen,
nineteen year old kid getting into those
troubles that if I do this,
I'll get myself out of this trouble.
No, no.
It just gave it more trouble on top
of the trouble you were already going to
be.
And so, well,
she really she releases a virus that
consumes everything.
and i never did anything that crazy okay
and so it begins to you know so
she thinks she's everything's fine she
goes off and she goes back to her
job collecting trash meanwhile this thing
begins to devour the universe and uh it
gets in because the corrupt company she
works for was trying to weaponize this
thing before she got a hold of it
they um
it it gets into their systems and finds
a way to take over the company and
then it just begins to expand across the
universe and margot has to deal with it
she gets sent out she's told it's your
mess clean it up and so she goes
out to she goes out to take care
of it and uh so yeah it's it's
it's about what the repercussions of you
know a quick decision to fix things
happens
So the three issues tie in together and,
you know,
wraps up with Apocalypse in Pink being
what happens in the third issue because
the monster's pink.
And then it absorbs, becomes pink.
So hence the title, Apocalypse in Pink.
Yeah, that's so cool, though.
Like the way it just,
it makes it make sense, you know?
then um i did a one shot for
that series too after that which i wanted
to try working with different creators i
wanted to see through different creators
eyes how marvel would look so i i
hired uh joe sinet to do a cover
for me this was before he passed away
it was probably one of the last things
he did and so i got to draw
the cover and had him ink it sort
of like the kirby relationship which was
just yeah yeah and he was such a
nice guy
He helped me promote it.
We did an opening at the local convention
here.
And then also Joe Staton,
who probably will be doing some more
Marvel work.
I've talked to him in the future.
He's interested in some covers.
He'll be doing probably some alternate
covers for me.
And yeah, so also the stories were...
One is about Margo's origin.
It was called the applicant and it talks
about her applying for the job and sort
of what I talked about before being an
employee.
Her mom gets their job and it goes
into her mom taking her to work and
then flashes to the present day when she's
applying for the job and she's got this
training officer who
who actually is an alien and tries to
infect her with this alien species,
and she has to fight it off.
And then the company's been observing,
comes in, breaks everything up,
and she gets the job because she helped
her.
Lawsuits.
Lawsuits.
No lawsuits.
Sign an NDA, and you can work here.
Exactly.
So that's sort of the first story.
And then the Spaced Vampire,
I worked with Marcelo Tram.
I broke down the story for him,
wrote the story and colored it,
lettered it and let him, he, you know,
I worked with Marcelo for a while before
he passed away.
I was publishing his Infinite Punishment
series for a while and we were working
together and he passed away young.
I hate to hear that, man.
Especially after we've lost so many people
this week.
It's been a rough week for everybody with
losses this week.
But you've allowed...
Her to evolve visually and personally from
those earlier designs to now the orange
jumpsuit and the goggles and from a more
absorbed employee into somebody very
capable of becoming the hero the universe
needs.
How important has it been to kind of
like let Margo actually change rather than
keeping her frozen as the character that
you created twenty plus years ago?
Oh,
it's been very important to the character.
You know,
one of the things that as I worked
with the character was realizing that
she's on a hero's journey.
And she doesn't start from that position.
And she's, you know, I mean, similar,
the hero's journey basically is the
Odyssey, really, in mythical terms.
So she's on her own version of the
Odyssey.
And rather than becoming self-absorbed
and, you know, spiteful about the job,
eventually things will turn where she'll
become the hero the universe needs.
But she's got to realize it first.
In the newer story, she
At the end of the very third issue,
Apocalypse in Pink,
all these Margo variants invade the
universe.
And she managed to send them back,
but two escape.
So in the next Margo series,
she has to deal with these two variants,
and they both live very different lives.
One was abused.
And the other one had a very different
life.
And so she faces these two different
versions of herself.
And basically,
it's sort of a mirror held up of
like what her life could have been.
Yeah.
So one is angry because her life was
was terrible.
And the other one.
is just wants to be a hero and
wants them to reach their full potential.
So she has to deal with this aspect
of herself and it kind of pushes her
along a little bit more in that direction
as we go into the next series.
So, you know, it's,
it's important for me to move the
character along.
And I also do little short stories where
it's like,
She's on a little garbage run and we
have something that happens, you know,
that's just, it's quick, it's fast,
it's out of there.
And then the longer story arcs I liked.
Yeah.
So what began with Margo eventually
expanded into Cruise.
Aliens, monsters, employee records,
ship schematics, technology,
and stories like Space Vampire.
When did you realize you weren't just
simply making stories about Margo anymore?
You were building this entire Margoverse,
we'll call it.
Well, I thought...
you know, silver age comics.
I grew up reading silver age comics and
the schematics they would have of like the
Baxter building, you know,
spaceships and also kind of like teen
books too, you know?
So,
I was like, well,
can I have a team come in once
in a while,
but still have solo adventures?
That idea really appealed to me.
It was like, OK,
I could have Margot do a little solo
adventure,
but then I could have this team come
in and pull her ass out of the
fire occasionally.
And so I think it was an interesting
way to expand the universe.
And as you begin to write these
characters,
you start to write their backgrounds.
What's their motivation?
Why are they here?
What do they want?
And so that became a really interesting
thing as I began to do it.
One of the things that I have a
lot of fun with is designing the aliens
and the monsters.
Oh, yeah.
There's a scene where she's in a bar,
and I got to design each one of
the characters.
And someday I'm hoping to do little
trading cards for each of the aliens.
Yeah.
Oh, that would be really cool.
That would be really cool.
But you grew up loving the
larger-than-life storytelling of the
Silver Age, like you just mentioned.
How did you take that sense of imagination
and adventure and make it feel like Jim
Whiting's universe instead of simply
recreating what influenced you from that
Silver Age?
You know, when I was in art school,
there was an expression that said,
use you steal what you don't know and
eventually it becomes your own you know so
this dan lee method start out with
something that influences you and
eventually it becomes your own because you
you add your own influences to it so
you know the idea when we went back
to we were talking about scow
It was pretty much in the line of
what I grew up reading.
And then as I progressed and started to
add my own stuff,
it began to evolve into something much
different.
So you start with what you know,
and then eventually it mutates into your
own sort of creation.
Yeah.
It's cool.
I really enjoyed it.
And like I said,
you sent me some of the pages to
look at when you sent me.
Great media pack, by the way.
Oh, thank you.
That was fantastic.
I wish everybody had a media pack like
that.
I've been doing a lot of,
I've been doing a lot of mentoring about
those.
I do,
I do a podcast or not a podcast.
I do a, a,
a sub stack newsletter called creating
comics.
And I do a lot of behind the
scenes process stuff,
what I'm working on currently.
And so it's fun.
You know,
I get sometimes into inking and shadow
work.
And then other times I went to lettering
and,
and production and lately since i'm doing
this kickstarter i'm going into
kickstarter and yeah what what it's taking
for me to do that i think one
of my last ones was i'm stuck in
production hell yeah pre-production hell
yeah pre-launch hell yeah i read it but
if anybody else out there wants to read
that it'll be in the description below if
you want to check out his sub stack
But let's talk about Apocalypse in Pink.
So for somebody discovering Margo for the
very first time through this Kickstarter,
which also linked down in the description,
what is Margo Intergalactic Trash
Collector Apocalypse in Pink?
What kind of ride are readers getting
ready?
What kind of ride are readers getting when
they open this hundred and twelve page
collection?
Another mouthful.
Holy hell.
Well,
they're getting not only a science fiction
story, they're getting an adventure,
they're getting comics the way I like to
do them.
And hopefully they walk away saying,
this is something different.
I don't know what's going on here,
but I sure want to read more.
And I'm hoping that...
they get into the energy of Margo.
And I hope that, you know,
I've had a lot of people come up
to me at shows and say,
I really like your artwork.
It reminds me of so-and-so and so-and-so.
I mean,
I have a very definite Kirby influence and
people recognize it.
And it's like, wow, I really like that.
And it's like,
that's exactly my influences there.
And they show,
but it took me a long time to
develop my own style.
And, you know,
for an artist to be recognizable is
important, I think,
for you to develop that brand and that
style.
Yeah.
But I'm hoping that it's a lot of
fun for the reader and I want them
to hopefully enjoy, have a little laugh,
a little snort of laughter and then want
to read more.
That's it right there.
I mean, to me,
like if people read it and enjoy it
and they have those moments where they
kind of like people look at you and
you go,
what in the hell is he reading?
Why is it so funny?
Then you as a writer and artist have
absolutely done that job.
A hundred percent.
The comics I like the most are the
ones that are different.
You know,
they're not the same thing over and over
again.
And I think, you know,
if you can offer up something different,
I mean, yes,
it's familiar in a lot of ways.
There's familiar tropes,
but it takes on a different life of
its own.
And, you know,
those are the comics that I like to
read.
There's originality in them, you know,
and not just the cookie cutter stuff.
Yeah.
A lot of particularly the bigger
companies.
I mean,
I grew up a fan of the bigger
companies,
but now a lot of stuff feels very
cookie cutter.
You know, so I, you know,
a few years back,
I switched to buying basically just
creator-owned books only.
Yeah.
You know, well,
not only after going through so many
changes of the continuity,
I couldn't follow it anymore.
I, you know.
I don't exactly, yeah.
I just ended up going with creator-owned
stuff, you know.
Mm-hmm.
And actually,
I even stopped buying superhero books
mostly because, you know,
I felt like the same tropes were over
and over again.
And there wasn't anything left to say.
I just didn't find it something I really
wanted to read.
No, I, yeah.
When I got back into comics and I
was like, I'm not doing DC.
Well, let me rephrase.
I'll still read Swamp Thing.
Mm-hmm.
I'll still read anything related to
Hellblazer.
Vertigo.
And when they were doing DC Black Label
before they reverted that back to Vertigo.
Those books were dark and it gave you
a different side of DC out way from
the superhero stuff.
And I absolutely love that kind of stuff.
Marvel I really don't touch anymore.
But didn't everything else was like
Image I love because the limited run
series by independent creators and Boom
Studios.
I still love IDW.
Dark Horse is doing really great stuff.
Mad Cave.
Ignition Press.
Source Point Press is back and coming
again.
Pure independent comics done by real
people who could be your next door
neighbor.
That's the stuff where I feel like
You're getting more original stories.
You're getting those books that you could
tell when they were written and drawn,
they were done with love and care.
And they gave a shit about the material
they were putting out because they ain't
just putting out, you know,
the cookie cutter stuff.
They're putting out something that they
themselves want to read and create.
And that's what they did.
Yeah,
the bigger companies are basically
concerned with keeping their characters
out there and within a certain frame.
And once in a while, to their credit,
they'll bring on a big talent and it'll
do well.
It's not like the old days where every
book was great.
There was nine titles and every one of
them was
Now it's nine hundred titles and maybe one
or two of them is great.
It's changed and eventually after working
for the bigger companies,
the creators realized that doing their own
stuff is better.
There's more freedom to do what they want
to do.
I mean,
I get to the point now with Marvel
and DC,
I only will buy a certain cover from
a certain artist that I really like.
And I'm not going to read the book.
I just want the cover because that one
artist I like did the cover on it.
Yeah.
Well,
that's part of the problem I have with
buying, you know, there's not really,
I mean,
some of the companies are coming out with
catalogs, which are great because,
you know,
I can't tell by the cover a lot
of times what I'm going to get inside.
Yeah.
You know,
so I'll buy the book for the cover
and then I'll get inside it.
It's like, well,
this doesn't even look the same as what
I bought, you know?
Yeah.
So that could be a little frustrating,
you know?
It's like, man,
they had that in the old days.
I'd buy a Jack Kirby cover and I'd
open it up and be Don Heck to
artwork and...
Not to demean Don Heck, you know,
but at the time I was like, oh,
I bought this for the Kirby art and
there isn't.
It's only on the cover, you know?
Yeah.
So, you know, that has always worked.
But what's happening with digital now is I
see the catalogs online.
I can't tell what's inside unless there's
a preview, you know,
and very often there's none.
Yeah.
And so digital has become a whole new
thing with...
comics I'm still a old school guy and
I probably will always be that old school
guy I just love to have the comic
book in my hand the smell of the
pages the texture of the page the
I don't think I could ever like I
read digital comics all the time,
obviously, because I mean what I do.
But just that the weight of the book
in your hand, though, you know,
that that fresh ink on the page that
to me will will always be one of
my favorite things.
And I just can't see myself purely going,
oh, I just do digital comics now.
I don't think I could do that.
no no i i couldn't either i mean
i still have subscription i still buy
books and and you know actually even with
the subscription i like to go into the
store and look at the racks yeah and
i like to say hey that looks pretty
cool we'll try that one oh that looks
pretty cool try that one you know and
so i grew up buying that way and
i still do it i have such a
relationship right now with my uh local
comic shop that
I don't even have to go to the
shelf no more because if he thinks I
will enjoy it,
he just sits it in my box.
And if I don't want it,
I just give it back to him.
He knows me that well at this point
where that's how we are.
I know I don't have to go back
there anymore unless I just really want
to.
But he knows the artists I like.
He knows the style covers I like.
He knows what I'll read,
what I won't read.
And if he's not sure,
he'll just put it in my box.
And he's like,
I wasn't sure about that one,
but if you like it, cool.
I'll put it on your list and you
can have it.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
That's a great relationship to have with
your local comic shop.
It really is.
And, you know, that's four years.
There's so few comic shops now,
particularly after the pandemic.
A lot of them were closed up and,
you know,
And out of that,
let's say the number I've seen floated
around is there's probably two thousand
comic shops left in the country.
I think there's more than that,
but probably not far off from that two
thousand number, though.
And out of those that carry independent
comics, the number is even smaller.
Yeah,
I would say that number is probably around
five, ten percent, maybe, if that.
Yeah.
And that's where, you know,
Kickstarter came in and basically creators
were able to say, okay,
I can still create a book and do
a small print run and get it right
to readers and go directly to them,
you know,
and create my own fan base where,
you know,
the gatekeepers such as Diamond or whoever
at the time wouldn't let me in.
I could see a way to do this.
How'd that work out for them?
Yeah.
And so...
You see a lot of bigger companies now
coming into the Kickstarter sphere
because... I mean,
you look at Coffin Comics, what they did.
They were like, hey,
we're going to do all our stuff in-house.
We're not going to trust anybody else with
our stuff.
We're going to do very small,
very limited runs.
You go to our website.
When we have a Kickstarter run,
and they're not using Kickstarter.
They're using their own internal system
they built themselves.
And if you want a particular one,
you go, okay, yeah,
I kind of like that one.
And Oh,
when's this next issue of this one come
out?
Oh, it's a, you know, quarter three.
So I'll come back in quarter three and
get the next issue of that one title
that I want.
And then Zen scope completely left their
own Kickstarter now.
Cause penguin almost, uh, or not penguin,
but, um,
the whole diamond collapse almost
destroyed them.
Yeah.
And now you can get all their books
on Kickstarter now.
Mm-hmm.
And there's been a few more that are
just like purely on Kickstarter now
because they got the...
There's two schools of thought on that.
There's the school of thought that what's
happening is the bigger companies see the
money and they want it.
So they're coming in and they're taking
money away from the smaller guys.
I hope that's not what they're thinking
because, I mean, shit,
Marvel and DC are billion-dollar
companies.
Right, right.
But, you know...
That's one school of thought.
The other school of thought is the bigger
companies are going to get more eyes on
the Kickstarter stuff.
Yeah,
but if people are only coming to
Kickstarter to get that one thing that
Marvel decided they wanted to run a
Kickstarter for because it's a Stan Lee
art book or a Jack Kirby art book,
which I think is actually on Kickstarter
right now, then is that really...
People are going to go there simply so
they can get that one book, which, oh,
by the way,
is going to fund within the first...
couple of hours and, um,
So I don't know.
I would have to literally see the
statistics on that.
Did that book that Marvel did on
Kickstarter push other eyes onto other
comic books that are on Kickstarter?
And how many of those were led to
a particular Kickstarter getting new eyes
on it and getting backed by those new
eyes?
I would be very interested to see those
statistics.
There were some guys on Substack who
published those statistics of...
What's on this week on Kickstarter?
What are the numbers?
Where are they coming from?
They also talk a lot about AI-produced
products.
Yeah.
I do wish Kickstarter would start and nose
off.
It's become pretty bad.
Yeah.
There's a lot of books out there where
they have a cover and no preview of
the artwork inside, basically.
Oh,
you're going to get me on my soapbox
now.
I'm a Kickstarter guy.
When I'm able to,
I give back to Kickstarter,
to the people who come on the podcast,
to other friends of mine who are running
Kickstarters.
When I'm able to,
I'm a super backer on Kickstarter.
So my actions are there.
You can go to Kickstarter, look me up.
I'm a super backer.
I believe that, you know, it's, it's,
you get what you get, you know,
a hundred percent.
And I'm giving,
I want to be able to,
I give back to the community, right?
People come on my, you're the thunder.
Oh, is that what that was?
Holy hell.
Where are you at?
Where are you located?
I'm upstate New York.
Ah, okay.
So there's coming my way.
Thanks.
I'm an East coasty too.
So, but, um,
But no,
I give back to Kickstarters as much as
I can,
people who come on the podcast with their
Kickstarter.
And it's a hundred percent me giving back
to the community that allows me to be
here on a Thursday night talking to Jim
Wyden.
You know what I'm saying?
And I've seen some very bad Kickstarters
out there.
I've seen some amazing Kickstarters out
there.
And, you know,
when I land on a Kickstarter page,
I'm looking for the components, right?
Yeah.
I want to see, like,
a YouTube video is cool.
If you had it animated, that's great.
It's really not necessary in my eyes,
but it's always really cool because
there's some really talented people out
there who are animating comic books,
doing killer jobs, right?
Oh, yeah.
And then, like,
show me the proof of concept, you know,
five to six pages of the comic book.
It could be like any stage colored with
lettering, without lettering.
It could just be the inks, the art.
Give me the proof of concept.
Tell me what the story is about,
who you're working with.
You know, give me the basic information.
But I've landed on some where I was
just like, I clicked on it.
It looked like their child drew the pages.
And I'm just like, no, no.
I do a Facebook page where I post
every week.
It's called Indie Comics or Indie Wire.
And I post Kickstarters,
their links to the Kickstarter.
Every week I go on and I post
four or five different Kickstarters.
And some weeks I'll do the bigger ones,
throw in one of the bigger ones or
I'll throw in GoFundMe or I'll throw in
Fund My Comic.
Yeah.
You know, different different platforms.
And then also look at like, you know,
here's a guy who's comic and congrats to
him.
You know,
he had a six thousand dollar goal.
He's got twelve thousand.
But he doesn't need my help.
I'll look for the guys who were like,
yeah.
It's like, okay,
he's got to raise another thousand
dollars, and it's a good book.
He needs the help,
so I'll try to post those and push
those out if I can.
How I do it,
because of what I do,
is the people who've been on the podcast
before, when I see you post something,
your stuff on Instagram and Facebook,
I will immediately,
I share it to my story on Instagram.
I reshare it.
I add it to my story.
And I do that for everybody who's ever
been on the podcast.
If I see their stuff, I like it.
I share it and post it to my
story.
And it's just a great habit to have
because I'm,
it's the circle of life the way I
see it.
And, um,
taking care of those people who've been on
the podcast and being able to just give
back that little bit extra through social
media.
Cause it doesn't cost me a thing to
do it.
No.
Well, it's free.
It's community.
You know, you're creating community.
Yep.
You know, community is important.
And I think Indie Comics has one of
the best communities out there.
So I really do.
And I,
and I say this every time somebody is
on and we talk about the community of
Indie Comics, um,
I mean, it's a phenomenal community.
Like I've never seen a community that
would,
we go out of our way
who help each other to promote each other
and to like, Hey,
I'm looking for an artist.
I want this kind of style.
Does anybody know who, who can do this?
And there's almost probably,
probably people that go, Hey, yeah,
I know a guy or, Hey,
I am that guy, you know?
And I, and I love to see that.
And granted all spaces have the
negativity,
but it's not a lot of it within
the indie comic world.
Yeah.
So it's an amazing,
amazing community that we are a part of,
Jim.
Yeah.
I've found a lot of creators I've worked
with have been on social media and just,
you know,
going into communities and talking to
people and figuring out what's going on
and people sharing their work.
It's a great way to join the community
and be a part of the community.
We all grew up loving this medium,
you know?
Yeah.
And, you know,
there's a lot of different aspects of it,
but there's plenty of it for everybody.
And there's something for everybody,
right?
And there's room for everybody, too.
I mean, you know,
there's room for the guy who likes sci-fi
or the guy who likes horror or the
guy who likes a different artist,
you know.
And so the nice thing about this community
is it creates the space for that.
But you're just not simply reprinting
stories.
You're including character personnel
files, ship schematics in this one,
alternative covers.
You've got behind-the-scenes stuff in it,
and artwork, of course, from Joe Sinat,
Joe Statton, Rich Clark, and Marcelo Trom.
What did you want this edition to become
that readers couldn't get simply from
owning the original issues of Margot?
Well, you know,
I did go in because the issue was
originally done in twenty fifteen,
the first issue.
And by the time I got to the
third issue, you know, creatively,
a lot of my vision had changed.
So I accommodated that and went in and
I fixed some things.
I think as a creator,
I saw some faults in what I did,
whether it was a panel that didn't quite
work.
And also some of the lettering was
inconsistent because there was such a gap
in between.
So I wanted it to read as a
complete graphic novel because there is
continuity between the first three issues.
So I wanted the reader to be able
to come in and go right through the
story without stopping, you know,
and read it basically as a complete
graphic novel.
Yeah.
So creating that continuity was important
to me,
and also to capture that era of the
three issues as an introduction before I
go into the new series, you know.
Because the new series does, again,
for a believer in continuity,
it will pick up where the last one
left off,
And had some repercussions from the first
three issues.
Yeah.
It will also,
you could pick it up and not have
to have read the other issue.
So,
Mario publicly arrived through Kickstarter
in twenty fifteen,
later entered the direct market through
Fantico,
continued through additional stories and
specials.
And now we're landed on Apocalypse in
Pink.
This represents the third printing of the
material.
What has allowed this strange little
universe to survive for eleven years with
so many independent comets disappear after
their first releases?
Readers, number one, you know,
I'm still getting people come up to me
at shows and have never read the book.
They're interested in it.
And also a lot of hard work.
That's the key right there.
A lot of hard work.
A lot of sweat and, you know,
hard work, basically.
You know, and I believe in this series.
And so, you know,
through the ups and downs,
I keep at it.
And it's the series that really
encapsulates what I wanted to do in
comics.
I have taken breaks to do other work.
I was basically art director for Fanico
for a couple of years.
I did...
some books um i did a collection of
borgo books i did the basil logos art
book i also did a uh reprinted this
book with steve niles i did back in
the night we put it together and that
i had to go in and revise some
of that and do that so and that
was the last kickstarter i did was for
this book and it was a self-contained uh
zombie story so basically my introduction
was i moved through horror into the comics
realm and then
basically expanded and Margo was sort of
an expansion of that into,
into a sci-fi adventure stuff.
And yeah, I got off here.
I forgot where we were.
You answered the question.
Hey,
I believe in asking the question and
letting the creator run with it.
You know, you have,
you have said that keeping a creator owned
series in print is,
matters to you if for an independent
creator what changes when you stop
thinking of thinking only about making the
next comic and start thinking about
preserving that body of work so somebody
can discover this five ten twenty years
from now well there's there's my school of
thought on this is
um this as a creator where i am
in my creative process and commercially
and as a creator is that my best
efforts are put into my own original
properties i still know a lot of guys
who you know they're going after the dream
of drawing for the big two you know
and
And that's fine.
I don't distract from that or demean it.
But I feel for me that I get
the most satisfaction of doing something
that's original.
And so Margo gives me that room to
expand.
and bring things in that are influences
and things that I create.
And, you know, I'm constantly creating,
jotting down things on pieces of paper.
I've got tons of paper.
You can't see the volume here,
but I have little notes like, oh yeah,
we got to do this with Margo.
You got to have this guy.
Oh, I just pitched this character.
He'd be cool to come in, you know?
And so these are things that I save
and then I,
I integrate them slowly as ideas,
you know,
Being that I do everything myself,
things move slow in my universe,
and they take time to come together and
gel.
But I do it eventually.
That's where the perseverance and the hard
work comes in.
Eventually, it gets done.
keeping as an independent creator,
keeping my book in print is important
because I do have a web store.
I do sell books through my web store
and I do comic conventions.
And so, you know,
being able to come out and into a
show and have the book on display and
talk to people about it.
Yeah.
You got any conventions coming up?
I do.
I, uh, just did one in, um, Massachusetts,
which was great plastic city comic con.
Um, and then I am doing,
they're having one here in Albany, uh,
called the, um,
Excelsior comic con that's September.
and then i'm gonna be going to uh
end of september i'll be at the albany
comic con which is okay favorites because
we get a lot of the local celebrities
of on mars yeah joe staton will be
there okay nice my good friend janice
chang uh who's my like my sister we
have we have a lot of history and
uh you know a lot like i said
being in this area there's a lot of
talent that
basically worked in new york and settled
yeah area so they're all very close so
the albany comic con has a lot of
good guests i think mark mccone will be
there uh a few other few other artists
so yeah we get to know each other
and you know we hang out and uh
So that's, I look forward to that.
Also, I'm a designer too.
So I do the flyers for these shows.
Oh, nice.
That's really cool.
So I design the flyers and I get
them printed for them and things like
that.
There's a couple of shows I do flyers
for.
And then, you know,
table at the shows and have fun.
I also have a big printer,
so I'll do posters too.
Oh, that's even better.
That's really cool.
I haven't been to one up that far
north yet.
You send me an invite, Jim,
and I'll come up.
I'll send you the information.
They're just starting to come out now.
I'm doing a small press expo coming up,
and then I have Baltimore coming up.
So I'll be at both of those.
I've been to Baltimore several times,
but it got expensive for me to do.
Yes.
I hadn't split costs with everybody.
The hotel room really knocked my socks off
last time.
Yeah, yeah.
But, you know, I love doing Baltimore.
Baltimore was a great show.
And one of my favorite moments was after
the awards,
everybody gets together at the bar
upstairs.
Franco was there,
and I got to corner him for about
two hours out in the hall and talk
about his work at Marvel.
That's really cool.
I had a lot of fun meeting one
of my heroes.
So Garth Ennis is going to be there
this year,
and I'm like –
like a school girl.
Like I'm like,
I know I'm supposed to be working this
as press,
but I'm not going to pass up on
getting a Garth Ennis, you know,
signature on something.
It's like a mandatory.
I have to do it.
My inner fan boy is going to show
up.
And the moment I see Garth Ennis,
I'm going to be like,
you are Garth Ennis.
Please sign.
I think my last bad moment there was,
I had to,
the, uh,
Frank Miller artist edition for dark
night.
Yeah.
I stood flying for him to sign that.
And then of course I had to get,
uh, you know,
everybody's signature work of the book
eventually.
Yeah.
There's that fan part too, you know?
Yeah.
And it's hard to avoid and I'm going
to do my best,
but I ain't making no promises on it.
That's for sure.
I'll make money at the table and I'll
be like, well,
there's more money I can buy.
But, uh,
You're in Albany, right?
I'm in Albany, yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Nightmares and Nerd Skates,
shout out to him.
He's also on the network here.
His wife is from the Rochester area.
Okay.
You ready for this next one, Jim?
Yeah.
So you spent four decades in the trenches
working as an illustrator, cartoonist,
designer, publisher, letterer, colorist,
and production artists.
You've seen multiple generations of this
industry come and go.
What do you understand now about making
comments today that younger Jim couldn't
possibly understood?
You know, younger Jim was much like Margo,
a lot of rash decisions, you know,
and believed he knew everything.
And so
What I'm finding as I'm getting older and
I started working with particularly some
of the creators who were older and were
around, they have stuff to teach you.
One of the things I wish I had
done earlier was to let them mentor me
and learn from them while you can.
Hanging out with Joe Sinet and other
people.
My taste
have varied quite a bit.
As I said before,
when I was a kid,
I did not like Don Heck's artwork,
and now I have an appreciation that I
didn't have.
So my tastes have matured quite a bit
more.
And I think the industry has changed
dramatically from the printing to the
whole process of lettering, coloring,
all the way down the line.
But what seems to have changed the most
is
it's gotten more direct.
You have all this stuff that you didn't
have before at your fingertips.
The computer now,
you can do everything yourself.
The difference is it's time to do it.
You have time to do it all.
And that's the part I find,
I'm not only the artist now,
a marketer too,
You know,
I'm the salesperson and I pack up the
packages and I go to the shows and
I, you know, and I pay the bills.
So, you know, having all that stuff is,
is wonderful.
But again,
there's a small price to pay is that,
you know,
it takes time away from the drawing board.
Recently with this campaign,
I haven't sat down on the drawing board
in a week and I feel it.
I feel like I wish I was drawn,
you know, I wish I had drawn, um,
But, you know,
we've gone through things from,
I was publishing with Fanico when the
black and white explosion happened and the
market fell out and we went from getting
numbers from diamond and from like nine
thousand a book to two thousand a book,
you know,
or a thousand a book and then just
watch the bottom start to drop out on
everything.
Yeah.
and you know we've gone through phases up
and down and what's happened is though but
people find a way to get out what
they want you know independents find a way
to oh yeah we'll always find a way
yeah and now you know you have a
direct link to people who want the stuff
you know so the matter and i and
i keep telling creators this all the time
is like you know create an email list
Talk to the people who want to talk
to you.
Those are your fans.
Those are the ones who are going to
stay with you.
Those are the ones who are going to
look at your stuff, you know,
and treat them like, you know,
they're there as they should be treated.
Yeah.
Well, you know,
I encourage people to start now,
start with an email list, get, get,
start building, you know,
go to conventions,
sign people up and then nurture that
audience because they're the ones who are
going to buy your stuff.
yeah having that direct connection now is
something we didn't have before because
there was always a lot of gatekeepers you
know you had to go through the company
the company dance of the distribution no
and there's still some of that i mean
yeah the days a lot of the days
when you could just send in your artwork
and be done with it and just wait
for the books to come out for most
creators is not there anymore
what is there is in some ways even
better, a direct link to the people.
Yeah,
social media has completely changed the
way comic books are looked at and the
way we do marketing within comic books.
And it's awesome that we now have this
direct link to a potential audience,
to a potential fan of what we are
doing.
And yeah,
People are making thousands off of doing
it that way.
But at the end of the day,
it's also reminding people.
You see these Kickstarters making tens of
thousands of dollars.
They're also putting thousands of dollars
into marketing themselves and putting that
Kickstarter in front of people.
Right.
So, and that's how to do it, right?
You have to.
You can usually tell when a Kickstarter is
floundering right from the beginning that
they haven't developed an audience before
they went in.
And that's the first thing to do is
bring the crowd with you.
You know, I've had creators who, you know,
they put out a first book and out
of curiosity funded,
but then the second book felt like a
lump, like a rock.
And it was like, why,
why aren't they here?
It's like, well, did you nurture them?
Did you, did you?
And that's the thing about it, right?
You have to nurture that audience once
it's there and you want to keep it
there.
You,
you have to constantly give it what it
needs.
You have to nurture it.
You have to keep sharing content.
Like, Hey,
you know, if anybody's wondering,
you know, share a page like, Hey,
I just, you know, we're,
we're writing the next,
next chapter of this book.
You know,
people want to see that you're actively
working to produce that next thing for
them to enjoy, especially if they,
they batch you on Kickstarter and you're
like, Hey,
this is going to be a six issue
series.
You just backed issue one, get,
it got made.
It was successful.
You sent it out.
And then people are like,
Hey,
are y'all going to do a part two?
What are you doing?
You know,
the amount of work and what's involved,
some creators don't have the stamina to
play with it.
It's a mind game with yourself.
It is a hundred percent of mind game
with yourself.
And it's, you know,
it's not always pretty, you know.
Oh, no, no.
It's a lot of work and it's a
lot of time alone.
And, you know,
and for some guys who are just writers,
it can be very expensive.
I mean,
you add up costs for hiring an artist,
a letterer, an editor, you know,
and the printing costs on top.
And printing has pretty much gotten very
expensive these days.
too and shipping you know i know creators
who who um didn't count on the shipping
being quite so expensive and it put them
you know at a loss by the time
yeah so you know and and the format
is constantly changing so i do maybe one
a year maybe every sixteen months and by
the time i come back everything's changed
yeah relearn it again okay
Now Kickstarter has digital uploads so
people can download the digital books.
They didn't have that last year.
You know, they have, uh,
custom links for where people are coming
from your website and, you know,
they have buy buy later, uh, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And of course there's the whole, uh,
you know,
not safe for work debacle that happened
for a while.
Yeah.
That was, yeah.
We're not even going to touch that one.
You don't need to get on that soapbox.
No, no.
But so you've worked with Joe Sinai,
Joe Statton,
and these aren't simply just names from
comic book history.
You've had their artwork become part of
Margo's history.
What was it like seeing characters from
your own universe interpreted by artists
whose work helped define earlier
generations of comics?
But you know what's funny is seeing it
through someone else's lens and what they
did to it.
And sometimes it worked better than what I
was doing.
And I said, well, hey, it's my character.
I can steal that directly and just do
it that way.
So it's great.
It really is.
It's really nice.
And for me,
it was an affirming of what I'm doing.
seeing you know that that creator that i
grew up liking to do the work on
my character you know so yeah that artwork
up in my uh my room and you
know i'll never get rid of it you
know yeah always keep it and so you
know i'd like that you know and then
after i did that i said well you
know what i'm gonna go back to me
doing it for a while because i really
want to tell my stories too yeah nice
once in a while and it's it's a
great thing to do and you know with
varying covers it's fun to do too you
know i i also have worked with a
lot of creators who were starting out uh
when i was at fanico i was
I would work with people who are just
starting out and a lot of them,
some took off and did wonderful, you know,
and it's great to see.
Yeah.
Work with somebody who's just starting out
and you recognize the talent and you sort
of nurture it and give them a platform
to move on to.
Yeah.
Sometimes that's all they need is just
give them that platform and they're going
to do it.
The drive is there.
The want is there.
The talent is there more importantly.
So sometimes you just got to give them
a platform and let them cook.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Some guys I know have great talent and
other, you know, but deadlines kill them,
you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's,
it's hard work.
You know, a lot of, they always say,
you got to love this industry to be
in it.
Cause if you're going into it to make
money.
Yeah.
Oh, well, a hundred percent,
a hundred percent.
They see the net,
they used to see the Netflix deals and
the, you know, that deal and, you know,
we're going right for that.
And it's like, you know,
if ever that came, that's great.
But the idea for me is to just
create the best comic that I can create.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, a hundred percent.
And I think if more people just focused
on the comic and,
instead of thinking about ten years down
the road, like, oh,
I'm working toward a Netflix,
so that's my goal.
Your goal should be the here and now
and getting this comic book out to people
to enjoy, right?
And then if that other part ever happens,
then great.
This guy has a Substack newsletter.
I love the title.
It's called Just Read the Damn Comic.
Exactly, exactly.
So you've described –
as something of a golden age for
independent comics on Kickstarter.
Now you're preparing another Margo
campaign, eleven years later,
and you recently described the modern
process as pre-launch hell.
See,
I told you we were going to circle
back on that one.
What happened between Kickstarter in
Kickstarter?
Well, I think in twenty fifteen,
you bringing your own audience wasn't
completely necessary.
It was a new platform.
People were looking at it.
People were excited.
You put up a project there and you
were pretty much guaranteed to be funded.
You know,
it was it was the Wild West.
And so what's happened in the meantime
between people burning people,
you know, doing bad projects, not, not,
not.
And, and,
and some of it has to do with
larger creators coming into the platform
too, you know?
So there's a,
there's a whole bunch of different things
that have gone on, you know, now that,
you know,
people would prefer your book be done
before it goes up.
Yeah.
I, you know,
back then the videos were all artists
introducing themselves because everybody
wanted to know who you were and what
you did.
And I think we should still get that,
to be fair,
unless you're a vet of Kickstarter.
And there's a lot of veteran Kickstarters
out there.
But if you're that new guy coming up,
and this is your very first Kickstarter,
I personally want to see a video of
you introducing yourself in your comic
book to the people.
To me, that makes a hundred percent sense.
Before you go using a lot of money
to make that...
you know,
that video of your comic book be animated,
introduce yourself,
whether it's on your social media
platform, wherever it may be.
If your Kickstarter page has a link to
your Instagram and it's a video of you
doing a personal introduction saying, hey,
I'm Jim Bob Fred and I got this
Kickstarter called this.
Mm hmm.
Awesome.
I love to see that because it tells
me that you're serious about this and you
really want people to get to know you
and the actual thing that you are
attempting to create and fund,
whether the art is done or not,
or the book is done or not.
You've,
you've given me what I needed to know
that, okay, Hey,
there's a face to a name.
We can see the work is being done
to make this book.
And the Kickstarter is there to help fund
that book.
And to me,
you're reassuring people who may
potentially back that book that, hey,
I'm a real person.
This is a real thing.
And we are going to make this happen.
You just come along on the ride for
me.
And then those constant updates, right?
On Kickstarter and your social media,
you update social media.
You go over to Kickstarter.
You drop an update.
Hey, guys,
my artist just said he's on page twenty
two,
which means there's only about two more
pages to go.
things are progressing and then it's off
to the anchor or whatever it may be.
Right.
And I think to me,
the people who do that,
I'm a hundred percent going to be behind.
So that's, you know,
that's basically what the videos look like
then.
And that's what people were doing.
And that's what, that's where,
where it was at.
People were,
were behind supporting independent
creators and wanted to know who they were
supporting and what they were doing.
And, you know, I mean,
it's gotten a lot more.
The videos have changed and the format has
changed.
You know,
it's also become a college industry or not
even college industry anymore.
You have an industry of people like
Backerkid and other companies that will
sign on and take a portion of your
money to send them out for you.
But they also help market that book as
well.
Yeah.
So, you know,
you have Kickstarter takes what?
By the time they're done,
I think they're at fifteen percent.
Yeah, I think so.
Roughly.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That's another percentage, you know,
so I'm not sure how backer kit does
it.
If if they if they're taking their
percentage from the Kickstarter
percentage,
because I think I'm not sure how that
one works.
I've never really discussed that.
This time I have somebody on that has
that is using backer kit.
I'm going to ask that question because I'm
curious about that one myself.
Yeah, they, you know, in the beginning,
I talked to a lot of creators who
they started,
they didn't want to do the shipping
themselves or the numbers started to get
bigger.
So they would hire a backer kit to
take care of it.
Some printers that weren't doing that,
too.
I know a lot of printers that are
doing it.
Yeah,
I worked with Comic Impressions out of
Florida and they started doing fulfillment
and printing there.
And, you know, there's, you know.
I also, you know,
I've worked with a bunch of different
printers.
That's another story anyway.
Um, you know, the format has changed, um,
you know,
Kickstarters added a lot of things in, um,
you know, so it's become where now you,
like I said,
you've got to bring an audience with you,
that audience, bring them in.
And you can't just land on there and
hope for the best because it probably
won't happen.
And there was a time when you could
do that.
When it was young and fresh and everybody
was excited about it,
if you had a good image and a
decent video talking about what you did,
you probably would do well.
And I did well.
I think at the time,
probably my friends and family were the
supporters and the rest all came from
there.
Hey, it's a start, though, right?
Of course.
You got to start somewhere.
And, you know, so, yeah, it's changed.
And the rules have changed.
You know,
now there's this big fear of is Swype
going to not pay you because they deem
your project not.
I think that finally got resolved.
I think that was about a thirty day
debacle there.
Yeah,
I don't think it really got resolved.
I think what happened was,
and I got a letter from Kickstarter
telling me that my project could be
considered Venture Readers and that
they're not responsible if Stripe doesn't
want to pay me.
That's so fucked up.
So basically they just walked, well,
in the beginning they said,
we're going to change the rules and here's
the new rules, no not safe for work.
And then all the creators got enough more
and they said, okay,
we're not doing that and nobody's happy so
we're not doing anything.
And if Swipe decides it,
we'll advocate for you,
but that's the best we can do.
Why did they even go with this
Bible-thumping company anyway?
That's what I don't understand.
I don't know.
They didn't used to.
That's new to me.
You know,
it was basically they would take the
credit cards themselves.
Maybe they didn't want to deal with the
work they were doing.
I mean,
it seems to me like they sold that
portion off to a third party, right?
And that's what Stripe is,
is a third party.
I just wish,
and it's probably the cheapest company
that bid for it too,
is how that usually works, right?
Yeah,
they probably take the last percentage.
Yeah.
So, I mean,
hopefully that contract isn't long and
they are able to cut that
sooner than later.
Well,
it hasn't slowed down the
not-safe-for-work stuff on there.
No, it seems like there's even more.
They're just doing it a different way now.
I'm more curious to see numbers on people
who are getting later notices from Stripe
saying we're not going to pay.
Definitely something interesting.
I wish they would post more statistic-type
stuff on there, but they don't, so...
yeah it's even tough to find out what
was the best-selling comic of the month
these days yeah exactly really and there's
not one main distributor so it's kind of
all over the place there are there are
some who who's tried to like three tries
and uh i mean occasionally you get some
numbers from heidi mcdonald and a few of
the other online services but you know and
um
There is a – I don't know if
you're aware of this.
It is called Hot List Comics,
and it lists all the Kickstarters based on
their sales.
No, I know who you're talking about.
Yeah, I've seen them before.
For links and to list them too,
you know?
Yeah, I've seen that list before.
Yeah.
So –
Apocalypse in Pink represents an
interesting hybrid model.
You have Kickstarter is letting you fund
this book and connect directly with
readers, while SourcePoint Press, Prana...
is helping you move it into a wider
marketplace.
Is that combination crowdfunding plus
traditional distribution becoming a
sustainable model for independent creators
that they should be thinking about as
well?
Because I know we were talking a little
bit beforehand,
the Indie Comic Alliance is doing
something similar to that with what
SourcePoint is doing as well.
Well, you know,
it dawned on me the other day,
it was like,
I have to be the publisher.
I am the publisher.
I am the creator.
And they will be my distributor.
And I will create the product and I
will sell it and fund it through
crowdfunding and then distribute it
through other channels,
whether it's my store, SourcePoint Press,
Prana, Lunar, whoever will sell it.
So I have to create the book and
I have to print enough to cover all
those bases.
And so I think that that's basically the
new model for independent creators now.
Yeah, it's a great model,
and it seems to be working, right?
So, I mean,
why start messing up a good thing the
way I see it?
Yeah,
and there are people who are unsatisfied
with Kickstarter,
and they're moving over to places like
Fund My Comic.
Yeah, so Fund My Comic, Zoop.
What's the other one?
There's another big one in there.
I can't remember what it's called,
but I'm not a big fan of the
other one because the way they do their
shipping.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know who you're talking about.
Because they tap me with two different
shipping fees.
Yeah, and that's another thing.
I'm a big supporter of Kickstarter,
and I was really surprised when I went
to fill out the fulfillment thing,
and then I had to pay more money
for shipping.
Yeah, shipping is ridiculous.
I love all my friends in the independent
comic world in the UK and in other
places.
But if I'm back in a comic book,
that's eight dollars or ten dollars.
But it's costing me fifteen to eighteen
dollars to get it across to the US.
I can't sustainably do that.
That's like and I hate that.
Right.
Because I still want to help my friends.
I still want to back my friends in
the UK and Europe and Asia.
But I can't do it because the shipping
isn't affordable anymore.
Right.
Yeah, I find that most
Most physical copies sell in the U S
and digital copies sell overseas for,
you know,
and the things that I have sold for
overseas are original art.
Yeah.
And somebody buys the original art.
They've obviously got the money to pay the
shipping.
And so, you know,
original art has always been a part of
my campaigns.
Yeah.
Usually put the cover up or,
or a few of the pages.
some of the sketches from some of the
other artists and um yeah so you know
it's a quandary because a lot of creators
now saying don't bother with doing
overseas shipping yeah at all or you know
or but i do it anyway and figure
well you know if someone wants it they
can get it but they'll probably buy the
digital one yeah you know so apocalypse in
pink is celebrating
Eleven years of Margo.
You've already made it clear this isn't
the ending for Margo.
You have a brand new intergalactic trash
collector series planned for twenty twenty
seven without giving anything away or
everything away.
I should say that you're working on.
Where are Margo and her crazy little
universe hidden in twenty twenty seven?
I'll give you a spoiler.
We love spoilers.
What's happened at the end of Apocalypse
in Pink is the way that Margo solved
the problem was blowing a hole in the
universe.
And that company she worked for has been
dumping trash into that universe.
And that universe is pretty pissed.
Oh, yeah.
So there's a big battle coming and a
big confrontation coming.
And so, yeah,
that's what the new Margo story is
basically.
More wild times for Margo.
I love it, dude.
That is so awesome.
So this kit started from Margo,
Intergalactic Trash Collector,
Apocalypse in Pink is launching September
the eighth.
September the eighth.
Yes.
Before I adjourn the council tonight,
tell everybody where they can support your
work, support the campaign,
follow Whiting Studio and keep up with you
because you're a busy man and we got
to be able to keep up with you.
All right.
So I have a Web store.
It's Whiting Studio dot com.
And I am on Substack under Creating
Comics.
Yep.
Jim Whiting, Creating Comics.
I can give you the links.
All of them are in the description, Jim.
Okay, great, great.
I take care of you.
I'm on Facebook.
Instagram is Whiting Art.
Yep, all in the description.
Cool.
So, yeah, and...
Again, I'm doing that, uh, Ashcan edition,
which is a lot of fun.
So I'm promoting that right now and hoping
that we do a big splash for the
Kickstarter when it launches on the eight,
things are looking pretty good.
I've been doing some advertising with the
traditional means and, um,
Things are moving along pretty good.
It's busy, but I'm loving it.
I'm excited for it, Jim.
I'm going to be honest with you.
I hit that notify me on lunch last
night on the Kickstarter so I can make
sure that I get my copy of Margot.
not letting it get through my hands um
but all those links that you just listed
are actually down in the description below
the kickstarter pre-launch is there your
social media is all there y'all go give
jim a follow make sure you follow this
kickstarter notify you on pre-launch that
way you're able to be a day one
guy you're able to get some of this
cool bonus stuff that jim has planned for
this kickstarter
But, Jim, I want to thank you.
You've got to make sure to support the
UFDN podcast, too.
There it is.
We need people like you.
Appreciate you, Jim.
It means the world,
and I'm so happy that I was able
to make this episode happen for you
tonight and put together a pretty darn
good show in less than twenty four hours.
Right, Jim?
Oh, yeah.
I appreciate you putting the effort in.
it was like I said, Jim,
once I looked up your name and I
realized who, who you were and who,
who was asking me to do a show,
I was like, no brainer.
I will make this happen for you, Jim.
And I'm so happy that I got to
have you on the show and hopefully meeting
more shows down the road.
Whenever you're ready to come back,
we will happily have you.
I'll be around for years to come.
So we'll be talking more.
I love to hear it, Jim.
I'm excited to have you back, but,
Again, Jim, thank you for joining us,
giving us a look inside Margo
Intergalactic Trash Collector Apocalypse
in Pink.
The journey behind Margo and everything
you've built more than four decades in
comics, which is absolutely amazing.
But to everyone watching and listening,
make sure you support Margo.
And when the Kickstarter launches on
September eighth,
make sure you've hit that notify me on
launch that way you get notified that
Margo has launched.
Make sure you follow Jim.
All those links are down below in the
description.
I swear to you, they are all there.
And keep up with Jim.
Find out what's coming next because he's
not going anywhere for a very long time,
according to himself.
And I hope you don't either.
But as always, people, make sure you like,
subscribe and share the show.
So your support helps us continue putting
independent creators and their work in
front of new audience.
And with that, everybody,
ladies and gentlemen,
the Council of Nerds is now adjourned.
And this has been the USDN podcast where
indie comics come to life.
Y'all be safe out there.