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Jay Swanson takes his garage monologues to the couch, where anything goes. Friends drop by to ruin the monologue element and discuss everything from what goes on behind the scenes to current events and more.
[01:00:00.00] - Speaker 1
are you going to create like a lifestyle business? Are you going to create something that supports you
and maybe grows to support a few people? Or are you going to grow something that disrupts an
entire industry? Are you looking to take on massive amounts of investment? Do you have an idea for
that already?
[01:00:12.17] - Speaker 2
I don't yet.
[01:00:13.08] - Speaker 1
Okay.
[01:00:13.19] - Speaker 2
I really don't. And I get myself anxious every time I think about it.
[01:00:18.13] - Speaker 1
Oh.
[01:00:18.14] - Speaker 2
And I get terrified and scared.
[01:00:19.25] - Speaker 1
Now I'm getting you anxious.
[01:00:21.01] - Speaker 2
You're getting me anxious.
[01:00:21.19] - Speaker 1
Let's talk it through.
[01:00:22.06] - Speaker 2
But that's okay. We like to, you know, this isn't it lovely to disrupt ourselves? Coral— where did I read
this? Coral does not grow in still water. It needs agitation. We need agitation to grow. And this is a
very big agitation in my life.
[01:00:37.10] - Speaker 1
It's a big agitation, yeah.
[01:00:38.03] - Speaker 2
And I just want this to succeed. And I'm like, by all means necessary.
[01:00:48.17] - Speaker 1
One of the statistics that consistently blows my mind is the ratio of people who watch or listen to the
show versus how many of them are actually subscribed to it. There are so many people listening right
now that may even think that they are subscribed and are unaware that the algorithm is just kind of
randomly feeding it to them because they've showed interest in it before. If you'd like to support the
show, it's one of the simplest and easiest ways that you can do so by hitting that little subscribe
button, and it lets the algorithm know that you are interested, you're along for the ride. And if you'll do
that, I promise I'm going to do the best I can to continue to bring the most interesting stories I can
from Paris both from my friends and beyond to keep that link alive for those of you that love this city,
may want to live here one day, or may already live here. Thanks for watching. Cheers. This is the first
boozy episode that we're doing on Garage Monologues. Last season was all about the cheese. I don't
know if you knew that.
[01:01:35.29] - Speaker 2
I did not.
[01:01:36.13] - Speaker 1
The third season, I did the Road to Citizenship, where we tried every AOP cheese over the course of
the entire season. So like 8-ish cheeses per episode. The protected named cheeses.
[01:01:48.05] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:01:49.04] - Speaker 1
And this year we're doing a whole bunch of other stuff. If you are new to Garage Monologues—
[01:01:52.24] - Speaker 2
Cheesy people.
[01:01:53.19] - Speaker 1
Sorry, you say what?
[01:01:54.23] - Speaker 2
So now you're working through cheesy people as best I can.
[01:01:57.19] - Speaker 1
So keep the cheese alive. That's your full— that's your full— that's your full permission to do as many
dad jokes, whatever puns come to mind. Jane, don't hold back.
[01:02:06.02] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:02:06.21] - Speaker 1
We're doing a third season. If you have never listened to Garage Monologues before, or you have and
you're confused, that follows a few of my friends who are doing very interesting things this year. Jane
happens to be doing possibly the most interesting thing because she might be the most interesting of
us all.
[01:02:20.03] - Speaker 2
Oh my.
[01:02:20.20] - Speaker 1
Jane has been accepted into an incubator here in France, probably the most famous tech incubator in
France, Station F. And we're at the restaurant next door to it right now. Next time, maybe we'll even be
in Station F. I don't know if you— I've been saying Mr. F this entire time. We're here to hear the story
about how, as I hope you don't mind if I reveal your age, a 50-year-old woman.
[01:02:42.03] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:02:42.15] - Speaker 1
You got into a tech startup scene that is infamously male-centric.
[01:02:47.08] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:02:47.29] - Speaker 1
I don't know any other women that have gotten into Station F. I'm sure they have, but they have.
[01:02:51.17] - Speaker 2
They have. Yeah.
[01:02:52.09] - Speaker 1
But the friends that I have that have gone to do fundraising and so forth, it's a very difficult field for
women across the board. How did you do it? Tell me what you are here to do. Like, what is it that
you're doing at Station F? What are you hoping to accomplish this year?
[01:03:05.29] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:03:06.08] - Speaker 1
What's the story we're following, Jen?
[01:03:07.17] - Speaker 2
Yes. So the story— and it's just— I ask myself this every day because we have to know that ideas are
iterative, right? What you started with yesterday may be a different thing tomorrow. And that's the
growth process. But what I want to create, Jay, is a technology platform that democratizes
entrepreneurialism for women.
[01:03:30.16] - Speaker 1
That's great.
[01:03:31.07] - Speaker 2
For some of the things you just said, you walk into these spaces and you don't see many women. And
for some reason, the word entrepreneur has now become code for white male tech.
[01:03:42.17] - Speaker 1
Yep.
[01:03:43.08] - Speaker 2
And I don't like that either.
[01:03:44.17] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:03:44.24] - Speaker 2
You know, entrepreneur is also a spirit. It doesn't always have to be a business. So I'm trying to put
together a tool that helps women see that path if they choose to take it.
[01:03:53.07] - Speaker 1
So I want to hear— I actually really want to bring people up to speed about how you got here, but I
think that opens a really interesting question, which is, what then is entrepreneurialism? Because as
George Bush famously said, the French don't have a word for it.
[01:04:07.18] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:04:08.16] - Speaker 1
Yeah. But how do you define it? How are you looking at it? Because an entrepreneur in my mind is
somebody who's willing to take risks to start their own business. And that can be anything from a
chef opening a restaurant to a plumber to a tech bro.
[01:04:22.03] - Speaker 2
Right.
[01:04:22.24] - Speaker 1
How would you define it?
[01:04:23.26] - Speaker 2
I absolutely define it as that. And it is, again, You know, an entrepreneur when I grew up was the local
dry cleaner. You know, it was the people that are creating businesses to service their community. But
I also think there's a spirit to it, an entrepreneurial spirit. And you see a lot of corporate organizations
wanting to infuse that in their teams and the people that are there. So, you know, there's so much we
can learn, I think, from that word. That also means personal stewardship for a lot of people. And for
some people, they need to be an entrepreneur of their lives to take, you know, to have a purpose, to be
stewards of their fate. And I think there's a space for that as well. It doesn't always have to be a
business.
[01:05:10.09] - Speaker 1
Well, this isn't your first rodeo. You have a successful business, a very successful business behind
you already that you started here in France, which is its own kind of accomplishment. And before that,
you had a career as a banker.
[01:05:21.28] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:05:22.13] - Speaker 1
In the banking capital of the world that moved you here for who knows why. I know why, I read the
book. She wrote a book, you should go get it. The French Ingredient by Jane Birch. Buy it right now
and rate it highly everywhere it is. But the, like, how did we get here? You started out, I feel like
banking is like the farthest removed, even though bankers are part of entrepreneurialism. It's the
opposite end of the spectrum.
[01:05:43.00] - Speaker 2
Really?
[01:05:43.27] - Speaker 1
In my mind of being an entrepreneur.
[01:05:45.10] - Speaker 2
Really?
[01:05:45.29] - Speaker 1
In a lot of ways. Okay. Push back on this as much as you want.
[01:05:48.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah, we're gonna get into it.
[01:05:49.19] - Speaker 1
But for me, especially as somebody who's recently had to deal with French banks, and they have no
concept of how business works. They do not care. They put numbers in. And I'm sure at the higher
level, the investment level, the kind of portfolios you're putting together when you're working, you're
doing real research to make these decisions. But I feel like when I run into problems with the bank, it's
because they actually don't take the time to understand what my business is, how I make money,
what that looks like, to the point that they tell me, we can't give you a loan because your business
doesn't do what your business does, which is deeply frustrating. So to me, I see bankers— no offense
to any bankers listening— as people who are sitting behind a desk managing someone else's money
and judging whether or not to give that money to someone else who's taking a risk. But to me, that
feels less entrepreneurial than the person who's putting their own skin in the game. Correct me on
how I see banking to start, and then tell me how banking led you through into Paris and through to
where we are today.
[01:06:40.06] - Speaker 2
Okay. I love to talk about the concept of le fil rouge, this red thread that, you know, sometimes you
only find it in hindsight. So somebody can say, how did you, you know, what are the transferable skills
from banking? Yeah, but I'll tell you, these are transferable skills that come from anywhere. And, you
know, for some reason, which we've talked about, we love to create a hierarchy and say that some are
better or some are more intelligent based on their job. They're not. There's two things that they're
doing: relationships and money. Yeah, those are the two core things in any business. I don't care what
you're practicing. So in banking, what I really learned is the skill of relationships. Yeah, that's what
took me to La Cuisine, and that's what's taken me to the business I have now, is developing
relationships.
[01:07:28.02] - Speaker 1
What was La Cuisine, or what is La Cuisine? Is it still around?
[01:07:32.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah, La Cuisine is still very much here. Absolutely. So Le Cuisine is a cooking school.
[01:07:36.13] - Speaker 1
Is it a cooking school for chefs? Is it a cooking school for— yeah, tell me more.
[01:07:40.20] - Speaker 2
It's a cooking school that's very much in the leisure market, and that means that we have visitors that
come to Paris and they want to learn about French cuisine in English. So we sit between culinary and
tourism. Now, I'll tell you that on the surface it's a cooking school, but what are we really doing? We're
selling memories. And how do you do that? Through relationships with your clients, because you
understand what they're looking for. Again, we're back to that core element. So La Cuisine is going to
be 17 years old.
[01:08:05.15] - Speaker 1
It's crazy.
[01:08:07.01] - Speaker 2
That is my child.
[01:08:08.10] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:08:08.24] - Speaker 2
Besides my red poodle.
[01:08:10.02] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:08:11.03] - Speaker 2
And I have to imagine if I had a child made of skin, a 17-year-old child would be self-sufficient and
they probably wouldn't be together every day. So that's how I'm trying to treat La Cuisine. And I knock
on wood, I've got a wonderful team so I can do that. But that's also made me step back and say, what
do I really love? And it's community. And relationships. And that's what La Cuisine does in a micro
form all day long. And I wanted to refocus myself on women who need that reminder and support to
advance themselves. Yeah, because I saw so many of them around the publishing of my book that
felt like there was some miracle, or what have I done that's so special? Nothing. I haven't done
anything that's special except for that I just kept trying and I persevered and I challenged myself and I
fell down and I got up.
[01:09:03.11] - Speaker 1
Is it possible that you don't see and value just how special that is in and of itself?
[01:09:09.22] - Speaker 2
Um, I do, but that's not a reflection of me being great. That's a reflection of the system being wrong
for so many others.
[01:09:19.29] - Speaker 1
So you think that the system works for you?
[01:09:22.02] - Speaker 2
I think that I have been in a position where I had help, where I was brash enough to do the things that I
wanted to do, where I pushed ahead. I didn't necessarily have a lot of responsibilities that I had to
worry about. Yeah. And I had great sponsors around me that said, here, let me help you. I'll give you
advice. I'll introduce you to that person. That is not happening the way it should for everyone. And I
want to change that.
[01:09:50.24] - Speaker 1
That picture. What is the relational thread from banking? So what is the relational element that makes
banking a great training ground for that? And then how do you go from that training ground to
deciding, you know what, I'm gonna completely change careers and do kind of what I just said as far
as I'm gonna go from deciding whether or not to put money in other people's businesses to putting
myself on the front line. That's a, which is a big jump that a lot of people never take.
[01:10:14.08] - Speaker 2
But it's all connected, isn't it? We're all connected.
[01:10:16.23] - Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm asking, but I, that's, I'm asking you to paint those connections for me. How is it connected?
[01:10:21.16] - Speaker 2
How is it connected? Well, you go from helping others to looking around and seeing that there's
people missing at the table here.
[01:10:30.01] - Speaker 1
Okay.
[01:10:30.15] - Speaker 2
What I've identified is a lot of people never get to the table with their idea. They talk themselves out of
it before it even— they breathe life into it.
[01:10:39.22] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:10:40.04] - Speaker 2
And those are the people I'm trying to catch and give them tools so that they can birth their ideas.
[01:10:46.17] - Speaker 1
What are those tools? Because I I'm really interested about this too. I think that you, you have such a
bright and optimistic outlook despite, I think, sometimes being a bit of a doomer. I've known Jane for
a minute and like there's—
[01:10:59.07] - Speaker 2
I can doomscoop.
[01:11:00.00] - Speaker 1
There's some doom and gloom sometimes, but I'm gonna— I want to take the opposite side, like the
devil's advocacy here, and say like I don't think most people have what it takes to be a business
owner, to be an entrepreneur. Do you agree with that? And do you think that they just lack the right
tools to jump in for themselves?
[01:11:16.01] - Speaker 2
Okay. I think they've lacked resources and tools. And I had somebody else say this to me recently, and
I'm ready for it.
[01:11:23.00] - Speaker 1
And as I hope you are, you're going to get a lot of pushback on this.
[01:11:26.02] - Speaker 2
And it shocked me because it was also a woman that I really admire. And when I told her about my
idea and she's got the right to say this, she said the women are not around the table because they
don't have what it takes.
[01:11:40.22] - Speaker 1
Oh, she actually made it a sex thing, a gender issue.
[01:11:44.09] - Speaker 2
That's what I'm focused on, are getting women around.
[01:11:46.07] - Speaker 1
For sure. Yeah, they're very underrepresented. That's, that's clearly— yeah, very.
[01:11:50.23] - Speaker 2
But they also have different life pressures to worry about.
[01:11:53.01] - Speaker 1
We'll come back to that.
[01:11:54.26] - Speaker 2
Yeah. And I said to her, what you've said to me is the equivalent of somebody who is from an
underprivileged category with limited resources. The reason they're not there is because they don't
have ambition.
[01:12:11.10] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:12:12.07] - Speaker 2
And that's wrong. The system is not working.
[01:12:14.25] - Speaker 1
It's a good response.
[01:12:15.20] - Speaker 2
And so that's how I feel. And I, I can't solve all problems, but—
[01:12:20.07] - Speaker 1
What are those things that women face that maybe doesn't get enough airtime? Or that me standing
in for all mankind, which is the worst thing I could possibly do at this point in history, uh, like, what is it
that I don't know about women and the challenges they face? Why aren't they at the table?
[01:12:35.07] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:12:35.22] - Speaker 1
What are the resources that they're lacking?
[01:12:37.07] - Speaker 2
And again, I don't know all women either. I'm also not a woman that has, um, gone through childbirth.
[01:12:42.14] - Speaker 1
No, but you're here to help Yes.
[01:12:43.29] - Speaker 2
But so I also step back with caution to try to provide a service that will help a 32-year-old single mom
that needs a second income.
[01:12:53.27] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:12:54.14] - Speaker 2
Right? A tool that will help her build the foundation she needs to be an entrepreneur. And she can be
an entrepreneur. It could be through setting up a knitting club. Yeah. Who knows?
[01:13:05.29] - Speaker 1
Yeah. But what are those resources she's lacking?
[01:13:08.09] - Speaker 2
Okay, so—
[01:13:08.13] - Speaker 1
Do you know? I think from where you're at now, because I know you're going to do even more
research, I'm sure. Yes.
[01:13:11.29] - Speaker 2
So what is it that Jane wants to provide right now?
[01:13:14.19] - Speaker 1
Yeah, sure. What does Jane want to provide? Tell me. Okay. So two things then. What does Jane want
to provide right now? But also, what do you see globally as things that you think do touch the vast
majority of women's lives that goes un— or underappreciated that are real hurdles that need to be
cleared?
[01:13:29.03] - Speaker 2
So on the surface, what does Jane want to provide? And this may change. I want to provide a
diagnostic tool so Mary can sit down in the privacy of her own home and go through a diagnostic
exercise to understand her skills.
[01:13:44.02] - Speaker 1
Okay.
[01:13:44.17] - Speaker 2
The first problem is self-awareness.
[01:13:46.07] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:13:46.19] - Speaker 2
And somehow we have judged that there are roles and jobs where you are more intelligent and you
use more skills. I think a woman that has stayed at home to manage her household has negotiation
skills, probably military operation skills.
[01:14:01.19] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
[01:14:02.13] - Speaker 2
You know, I mean, she's got all sorts of things that are valuable. So to harvest those, understand what
she has that's so wonderful, figure out where those gaps are, provide her with meaningful, trusted
resources. We also have a problem of noise. There's so much out there, we don't even know what is
reliable.
[01:14:22.10] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:14:23.09] - Speaker 2
And then those resources need to be appropriate for where she is in her life.
[01:14:28.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:14:28.15] - Speaker 2
Okay. If she's a stay-at-home mom, with two kids, leaving everything and going back to university is
not the solution. So finding tools that are responsive to her life cycle, not her age, her life cycle.
[01:14:44.00] - Speaker 1
Sure.
[01:14:44.22] - Speaker 2
So that's— we haven't really seen that. And then at the very end of that, what do I want? I want a world
of role models. And this takes me back to another fil rouge. I wrote my thesis on the importance of
role models for women. Yeah, we always need that view of what's possible. Another reason why you
need to be so careful about what we, what we consume on Instagram. We've already talked about
that, but we need those role models. We need to see other people in certain, in similar situations that
are doing things that we could do. Yeah, so that, that's it. And if at the end of that, Jay, they say, you
know what, I don't want to have a business, I want to, I want to be a the head volunteer at the YMCA.
Fabulous. Yeah, right. We all benefit. But if they leave that and say, I want to start a business and then
I'll go into, okay, well, that's the second phase of the project is helping them get off the ground.
[01:15:38.04] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:15:38.13] - Speaker 2
What do they need? We've got so many tools now to do things that we've never been able to do, but
nobody knows how to use them.
[01:15:44.26] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:15:45.13] - Speaker 2
And there's too many. And you're in your overwhelm.
[01:15:47.20] - Speaker 1
That mentorship issue is, I think, universal, right? Like we don't have good role models universally. We
don't— and part of that's the signal-to-noise thing, and part of that's just society is sick. But I think the
other side of what you're saying, I think that the issue that I'm running into the most when I talk with
anybody about like social media, building a business, using tools, like if you're going to use AI to build
something, is that people go into it without knowing all of these things. They go into it without
knowing what they want. Like, what's the end goal? What are you trying to build? And this is a huge
problem engineers run into all the time when doing software development is somebody comes in and
they're like, "It would be great if it did a thing," and they're like, "Yeah, but exactly how is it going to do
that thing? Like, how are we going to—" So they're having to untangle that as they go. How do you— do
you see that as something that you would be able to help with? Like, how do you help people figure
out what it is that they want?
[01:16:35.09] - Speaker 2
So, okay, this is the golden question, right? Because we don't know what we don't know. People need
information to help them get clarity. Okay. I think.
[01:16:45.26] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:16:46.08] - Speaker 2
And they need action to get clarity. So I'm hoping that the tools that I can help develop, which are still
in process, I'm learning as well, will help people get clarity on what that is. But also the understanding,
like we said earlier, the Jane of— the Jane 17 years ago is not the same Jane today. And I have the
right to change gears, as do you, and shift and decide that I want to be a professional tap dancer.
Well, how do I do that? There's a, there's a lady I love on Instagram called Dr. Judith. She was just
named a top content creator for Time magazine because she shares mental health things. And she
did a breakdown of what you can do with a psychology degree. Okay. And all these cool jobs. And I
never studied psychology because I thought What am I gonna do with that? Yeah. So again, it's
access to relevant information to help us make those decisions.
[01:17:44.15] - Speaker 1
What is the action portion then? Like, how are you gonna take this, give people tools? Where do they
end up? Like, I feel like there's an accountability piece. There's like, how do they— how do we make
sure that they show up? Or how do you make sure that they show up, do the work, do the thinking, and
come back around? Or is this only the people— because this comes back to that issue of like maybe
people won't feel motivated. Like, of course, I have so many questions around motivation.
[01:18:10.22] - Speaker 2
Actually, that— see, here we are. I— those are the things I can't solve for people, right? But what I do
know that motivates, and I have been talking about this recently, this is not new to me, I have 4 pillars
that help me take risks, right? And we take risks every day. The risk is You saying, Jane, do you want
to do this? And it's a risk for me to say yes. It's also a risk for me to say no. Those are calculated,
right? One of the things in those risks that helps you to advance is community. So important. You're
right. So I'm thinking, how do I get a community element in it that supports people?
[01:18:47.10] - Speaker 1
Well, I think that's really important too, because like we're missing time with each other, right? I mean,
really. So we are so much the product of the people we surround ourselves with. And yes, I think that
that's actually a really good— instead of doing this on your own in your living room late at night kind of
a thing, like, why don't we get together once a week? That builds a local element to it. Like, maybe you
start in Paris with that. But I think for me, like, I struggle with this because part of the reason that
we're doing this podcast series, like, bringing back my podcast and working on developing what we're
making, is because we started out thinking like, oh well, how do we educate and train small
businesses to make more and better content to bring in business, to like get to their goals. And what
we ran into is just like everybody kind of just wants somebody to do it for them. They're not there to—
they're not— and understandably, if you're running a business, especially a small business in Paris, the
demands on you for your time, your energy, it's stressful and it's hard.
[01:19:43.27] - Speaker 1
And I get it. Like, I wouldn't necessarily— I don't blame anybody for not— but I also see like where
we're at in the attention economy we live in. So much is tied into what you produce. Even if there's a
willingness, there's no budget to back it up, right? And even if we give the education away, there's not
the time or the energy to use that education, right? And so what do we do? We go back to like, okay,
well, with Paris in My Pocket, we can highlight businesses for free, kind of like how we're highlighting
the different places we're getting snacks from as we go. They don't know we're doing this. Like,
Station F doesn't know, or La Felicita doesn't know that we're here. But it's a fun food court in the
13th. And if you want to come get— fabulous. And it's one of the largest.
[01:20:22.06] - Speaker 2
It is the largest restaurant huge in Europe, apparently.
[01:20:24.28] - Speaker 1
Is it really? I think so. By square footage? I mean square meterage. Excuse me.
[01:20:28.18] - Speaker 2
Think about the number of covers that they have.
[01:20:30.24] - Speaker 1
It's a lot. It's a lot. They've got multiple bars. They've got pizza. They have like sandwiches, burgers, all
kinds of stuff. But the thing is that like, in my brain, I was like, okay, well, we can double down on what
we're already doing and try to send business to our friends, to locals, and then get sponsorship from
larger corporations that would like that, that visibility. But that's the same thing with this. Like, now it's
like, okay, I guess we're going to build a thing that can support a few people, right? But like, it's— I
guess for me, I feel like there's a real struggle there where it's— it may not be desire, it may not be
motivation, it may simply be the demands of life and time and where you are. You're walking into quite
the— I almost drew a pentagram there, I guess. There's probably more elements, right? There's a lot
when you're stepping into somebody's life and you're trying to say like, hey, you want to start
something new or you want to deviate course? What was it for you that got you to think, you know
what, I think I'm done with my cooking school, at least full-time.
[01:21:31.16] - Speaker 1
I'm going to go start a completely new business in a completely new realm. I really respect you for
this, among all the reasons I respect you, but you're really taking some big risks. You already have so
much on your plate. You're dealing with French bureaucracy and you're like, you know what, I'm just
gonna go ahead and start a tech startup. I think that what's cool about what you're doing, the age that
you're at, the experience that you've had, the person that you are, it's the right moment for you to step
in and be like, I want to help others. Yes. But whoa, yeah, it's a big— that's a big— this is a big thing
you're doing.
[01:22:05.23] - Speaker 2
It is big. And you know what, my only answer, Jay, is sometimes you just throw yourself into the mix,
right? Yeah. And if I take too much time to— I have one thing I've done well. One? One thing. Okay. I
listen to my intuition.
[01:22:23.15] - Speaker 1
That's very powerful on its own.
[01:22:26.04] - Speaker 2
And I will charge for forward knowing that I don't have all the answers. And this comes back to, I only
get clarity through action. Okay. So I have to move.
[01:22:37.01] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:22:37.11] - Speaker 2
I have to keep going forward.
[01:22:39.04] - Speaker 1
And then you're like, well, that was a pane of glass I didn't want to run through.
[01:22:42.01] - Speaker 2
That can happen. That can happen. But no, but at any— at every point, not any point, at every point
along the way I learn. Yeah. The worst thing that can happen is I get to the end of this histoire, as the
French like to say. Yep. And it doesn't work, and nobody wants my product. But you know what? I've
had a— I've learned so much. Every day I'm going home Googling some acronym because I don't
know what the hell it is.
[01:23:06.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah, you're learning a lot. Well, I was gonna say, that's not the worst. The worst thing I think that
could happen is if you got all the way to the end of it and you didn't learn anything. If it doesn't work,
who cares? Like, there— most businesses fail. We know that. Like, who— but if you— I failed it. A
million different things. I've been struggling for the last few weeks with my sense of like, oh my God,
I'm such a failure. I'm snapping out of it, thankfully. But like that— let me stop that. We're going to get
into this real quick. Okay.
[01:23:31.13] - Speaker 2
Because I don't believe in failure.
[01:23:33.10] - Speaker 1
Right. Right.
[01:23:34.15] - Speaker 2
We need to— we're scientists.
[01:23:36.05] - Speaker 1
Okay. Oh yeah.
[01:23:37.12] - Speaker 2
How many scientists go into a theory expecting it's going to work?
[01:23:43.02] - Speaker 1
None. Yeah. Not for very long. They test. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:23:45.24] - Speaker 2
And it's never a failure, it's data for the next thing. 100%. And you know, I do really believe this, Jay,
maybe I've gotten woo-woo, but every door that is like, not just slammed in my face, but like, cut my
hand off 'cause I had it in it.
[01:24:03.08] - Speaker 1
It's gotten gruesome. I know, it's gotten real gruesome.
[01:24:06.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I am in the vortex of hell.
[01:24:08.11] - Speaker 1
I have a business in Paris. Yeah, that is the vortex of hell, I hate it. Yeah, I hate it.
[01:24:12.24] - Speaker 2
It's been, I mean, we've been through some stuff. Everything has led to a better path. I may not have
seen it then. It would— may have been really, like, excruciatingly painful and soul-destroying. Yeah.
But I just tell myself, all you have to do today is take one more step. Yeah, that's it.
[01:24:33.28] - Speaker 1
That's the goal. I've actually, on the science note, I've thought— I said this to a friend recently who's a
surgeon, but I have had this kind of realization, or at least I don't know if this is true, but I've definitely
thought recently, you know, if we stopped like all the highbrow, big word scientific theory talk and just
said science is just trying a lot of things and keeping good records. Totally. You're just like, I tried that,
didn't work. Mark that down. Cool. Try the next thing. And like eventually so much of like what we
know about the world is just trial and error.
[01:25:09.06] - Speaker 2
This is it. And you know what?
[01:25:10.05] - Speaker 1
That's all it is.
[01:25:11.09] - Speaker 2
And I said this to somebody recently. Everything we believe now up to this point is just because they
haven't found otherwise. Yes. And that can still yet happen. Yes. Right. Science never— it's never
definitive. There's always another planet we discover or another equation or, you know, that pork is
good.
[01:25:34.14] - Speaker 1
I mean, there's always like, you know, we figure out what gravity is finally. Yeah. You know, it's like
we're always learning.
[01:25:39.20] - Speaker 2
Why can't we do that with us?
[01:25:40.29] - Speaker 1
I think for me what it is, is it's the external stuff. So, it's the living in a tiny apartment and the single at
40 and the, "Boy, do I smell funny today." No, that's not, but I think it's these things where I've made
these choices and what was, I actually went to therapy between recording sessions today. So, I've
been talking a lot today. Okay. But the, so I'll do more listening here in a second, but the reason that I
live in my tiny apartment is because it's given me an opportunity to spend what I would have spent on
rent on my business. And every time it's like, oh, I could rent a place for myself, or I could hire
somebody else, or I could pay someone else more, or I could buy the equipment I need, or I could
spend that on— those are strategic decisions. And so it's getting challenging because it's a high price
to pay after a while to not have a toilet in your apartment or a kitchen. My poor little dog, you know,
just flopping on the floor. But if you can remind yourself why you're doing it. Yes. And you can also
see like, oh, not everything is worth it.
[01:26:40.27] - Speaker 1
Far from it.
[01:26:41.20] - Speaker 2
And if I can say, yeah, delicately, and I do this to myself. Yeah. Because I can be in the doldrums.
Some people would love to have my worst day. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. We're, we're, we're relatively
lucky. And so I always tell myself, who am I comparing to? Yep. And why?
[01:27:03.23] - Speaker 1
I'm actually really curious to hear if you— if this is a similar experience for you, and because you built
what feels like a more traditional brick-and-mortar, like an established business with, um, with a fairly
clear business plan, right? And I'm doing something that very few people have done, and there's no
way to measure, like, is this a business plan? Does that work? Like, on paper, maybe that works, but I
have nothing to point to where it works. So I feel like a lot of what I've struggled with is like being
treated a little bit like and outsider people like, what, you do what? Like, what is this that you're doing?
Did you still feel that same kind of loss as like, is this successful, is this good, is this healthy? Oh my
God, no. When the line is crossed for La Cuisine.
[01:27:40.28] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh my—
[01:27:42.00] - Speaker 1
Jay, Jay, yes, tell me about it. So I need to hear about it.
[01:27:47.24] - Speaker 2
Okay, here I am, um, an American gal who knows nothing about food. Yeah, barely speaks French,
now deciding I'm going to open a cooking school in the gastronomic country, even though we know
Paris is not the gastronomic capital, it's Lyon, but the gastronomic country of the world. Did I get a
few raised eyebrows and the, "What are you doing here?" Absolutely. And I myself thought, "What the
heck am I doing?" But in those early days, I can't even really credit myself, maybe I was stubborn. Or I
didn't know anything else but to just keep moving forward. And sometimes that's all you need, right?
Yeah. You know, we don't— there's no such thing as answers. Yeah. All we can do is continue to pose
beautiful questions to ourselves. There's just so many dynamics that were at play, and I'd love to
know your situation and how you've adapted, because I, I would never fit in. I didn't fit in at the bank
either. I didn't go to the same especially not in France. I didn't have the same network, so I was, I was
already an outsider. And I guess I got used to it, but it doesn't mean it's easy.
[01:28:58.04] - Speaker 2
And I finally leaned into this beautiful realization that my biggest doubt was I don't fit in. Yeah. Until I
understood that what made me different is why I fit perfectly in where I am, because I'm not French. I
don't have the social pressures around the hierarchy. Yeah, I don't have to wait for a formal
introduction. I don't have to follow the codes. I know. I now know what they are. Yeah, that's the thing.
Once you know what they are, I can break them a bit. Yeah. And it was the things that made me
different. I'm so proud of who I am, even though I love France and I love that France has become a
part of me. But I made things happen because maybe I'm a bit more— what's the word? Not
aggressive. But when you take the risk, you go—
[01:29:53.19] - Speaker 1
you're more bold.
[01:29:54.11] - Speaker 2
I'm more bold because I'm American. Yeah. So I thought, let me lean into what— why things are
working and not feel bad about it. Yeah.
[01:30:02.19] - Speaker 1
But I think for me, similarly, like the projects that I'm working on and have been working on, that
outsider-ness, that, and acting as a bridge between worlds, I think, in a lot of ways, as best I can, does
provide you with opportunities that would not otherwise be there. It's absolutely really hard because
for all the reasons, the classic reasons of French bureaucracy and the attitude and just like how it's,
everything's a grind to get anywhere here. And it feels like every time you get one leg up, you get
kicked in the teeth, you know. Yes, we know that very well. Yeah, you can keep your leg up there, but
we're going to take a shot, uh, right in the mouth. And so I think that there's, there's cycles you go
through with that. But to your point, like this last time that URSSAF and the tax department decided
that they— I owed them more money than God, uh, there's this element of calm that I have now. Yeah.
And it's still stressful, and it's still like, well, that changes my plans. Right. But you learn how to adapt
and you learn how to, like, work your way around it and you figure out how to jump through the hoops.
[01:31:07.05] - Speaker 1
And it's the— the world doesn't get easier. We get stronger.
[01:31:10.26] - Speaker 2
This is it. You know, that's certainly what has happened through my years here in France. It doesn't
mean I don't have a soft core. Yeah. But you got to dig through a lot to—
[01:31:23.27] - Speaker 1
to get to that core.
[01:31:24.16] - Speaker 2
Well, no, I don't want to—
[01:31:25.01] - Speaker 1
to get to that squishy core.
[01:31:26.12] - Speaker 2
That sounds awful, doesn't it? No, but you know, we have—
[01:31:29.03] - Speaker 1
you have to be resilient. You do have to be resilient.
[01:31:31.06] - Speaker 2
You have to be very resilient.
[01:31:31.28] - Speaker 1
You also have to— I think that's as we grow, if we are growing and trying to add new things to our
lives, build new things, bring in new people, all of that comes with new problems. There is no problem-
free living to be had. Totally. And so I think about it in terms of when we— you know, I did make this
joke earlier with my therapist. I was like, well, I mean, the tax office coming after you is an awful form
of success. It is like a sign that like, oh yeah, things are working out okay that they're coming after
you, right? Right. And so I think a lot of it is reframing it from being like, ah, to be like, oh, that's a
milestone. Yeah. The fact that I have this problem, that's a milestone. And the fact that it is a problem
means that it has a solution. Absolutely. If it didn't have a solution, it would be a fact to embrace. This
is it. It'd just be something that you would have to live with. So The fact that we also have problems
means that we're still alive and we're still pushing and we're still heading a direction, if not the right
one.
[01:32:29.22] - Speaker 1
Yes. And I mean, what's to complain about then?
[01:32:33.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah. And we know that ultimately we'll get through the other end.
[01:32:38.07] - Speaker 1
Yeah. One way or another. One way or the other. In some shape or none.
[01:32:41.27] - Speaker 2
Right. In some shape or form.
[01:32:43.25] - Speaker 1
French monologue. Let's take a quick break brought to you by our sponsors. Sitting here chatting
about changes and new adventures makes me reflect on my own adventure here in Paris and some of
my business decisions, many of which have been good, many have been questionable. But one of the
best that I ever made was spinning off all of my Paris recommendations and videos about how to do
Paris into its own separate brand, Paris in My Pocket. When people came to my vlog for Paris advice
and then would find a story about my life here, or maybe even me just sitting there being like, I'm sad,
it didn't really make a whole lot of sense. And so splitting those two into separate things has been
One of the best choices I've ever made. If you happen to be coming to Paris for your first time, or
maybe you're returning, my base guide is actually loaded with tons of articles on how to get around,
where to go, how to do the city if you happen to have mobility issues. That one's free on our website
at parisinmypocket.com, actually, so feel free to grab that from the blog.
[01:33:38.10] - Speaker 1
And in that base guide comes what you might want regardless of how many times you've been to
Paris, and that is over 500 of my personal recommendations to the city of Paris when it comes to
eating, drinking, and having a good time. These are all places that I would go back to personally for
one reason or another, and I try to be as direct and honest as I can. And since it's behind a paywall,
you know, I can be as honest as I want to be. And we're calling it regularly. We regularly check in and
see which of these places deserve to be there and which ones we should cut. And if you want to go
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GARAGEMONOLOGUES at checkout for 10% off. And thank you so much for listening to my podcast.
With that, let's get back to the conversation.
[01:34:29.16] - Speaker 1
This is the other question that I have too, because often— let's say, let's take the YouTube as an
example. Whenever somebody asks how you do YouTube or how you get started or whatever, that my
question is always, why do you want to do it? Right? Because if you don't like making videos, you will
not like being a YouTuber. Right. And the fact is, you probably— even if you figure out how to do it and
succeed for a while, success is only the opportunity to— success is only the opportunity to do more of
the thing you're succeeding at.
[01:34:58.16] - Speaker 2
This is it. And that success clock starts every morning.
[01:35:02.19] - Speaker 1
That success clock starts every morning.
[01:35:04.09] - Speaker 2
It starts— it like rewinds to start. You're only as good as the day before you, right? Yeah.
[01:35:11.25] - Speaker 1
Every day is a new day. Get out there and crush it. But if that's the case, like so much of
entrepreneurship I think is tied into exactly the same thing as being like a content creator. If I knew
then what I knew now, how discouraged might I have been? Would I have actually stuck with it? I'll
never know. It's a counterfactual. But is that the— is that the other edge of the blade? In educating
and bringing people into the fold for entrepreneurship that you're maybe discouraging them by being
like, like the conversation we're having right now. There you go, yeah. Do you want to start a business
in France? Get ready to get kicked in the face.
[01:35:50.29] - Speaker 2
Well, you know what, it's not just about France, it's hopefully wherever you are. Well, sure, yeah. And
again, coming back to the spirit of when people, and my focus tends to be women, when they're not
expert exercising these beautiful ideas that are in their heads, it's a disservice to me. I want your
beautiful idea. Society needs it. You need it because you need a sense of self-actualization. So it's not
black or white. They, again, they could come through that and say, I want to be a leader in my
synagogue or my church. And maybe that's what their entrepreneurial spirit is used for. And we all
benefit from that. Yeah. You know, this is about self-stewardship after all.
[01:36:36.08] - Speaker 1
So it is— you ultimately, you're relying on them to be able to accurately self-select themselves.
[01:36:41.03] - Speaker 2
Yes. Yes. And for those that dare to think, can I do that? Yes, you can. Yeah, you absolutely can. And
here's some ways to do it.
[01:36:52.17] - Speaker 1
But it is an interesting dichotomy that you see, right, between Is this— are you going to create like a
lifestyle business? You're going to create something that supports you and maybe grows to support a
few people? Are you going to grow something that disrupts an entire industry? Are you looking to take
on massive amounts of investment? Do you have an idea for that already? I don't yet. Okay.
[01:37:09.15] - Speaker 2
I really don't. And, and I, and I get, I get myself anxious every time I think about it, and I get terrified
and scared.
[01:37:15.21] - Speaker 1
No, I'm getting you anxious. You're at me. Let's talk it through.
[01:37:18.03] - Speaker 2
But that's okay. We like to, you know, this, this— isn't it lovely to disrupt ourselves. Coral— where did I
read this? Coral does not grow in still water. It needs agitation. We need agitation to grow. And this is
a very big agitation in my life.
[01:37:33.04] - Speaker 1
Big agitation.
[01:37:33.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah. And, um, I just want this to succeed. And I'm like, by all means necessary.
[01:37:38.29] - Speaker 1
It's good. Tell me a couple things about Station F, because for one, what is Station F? For two, how did
you get into it? And three, where, like, where do you have to go after it?
[01:37:51.22] - Speaker 2
Okay. So Station F is one of the largest incubators in Europe, and I can't really speak to everything
about them. This is a train station that has been turned into an incubator hub. So you can imagine
how many people are in there day to day. And there's a lot of different programs that operate in here.
Station F has two programs that they run called Founders and Fighters. And I have— I am not a part of
those. What I am a part of— You're not a founder or a fighter. But that's the Station F programs. Okay.
You also have companies. LVMH is here. INSEAD, the business school, which is where I went, has a
program here. That's what I applied through to be a part of their launchpad that sits in Station F. So if
you think of Station F is like BHV, Oh, let's, let's not choose BHV.
[01:38:44.21] - Speaker 1
Let's choose something else. Oh, my favorite, a department store. For those of you that didn't even
know what BHV was, really, yeah, it's a tragedy.
[01:38:52.10] - Speaker 2
Scratch that.
[01:38:53.23] - Speaker 1
Um, just like we scratched BHV.
[01:38:56.02] - Speaker 2
There's lots of, uh, little villages in this community center, okay? Right, so lots of different programs
exist under this, this roof. Yeah, and you can apply to be in them.
[01:39:10.11] - Speaker 1
Okay, and you got accepted? And I got accepted. Did they tell you why they accepted you?
[01:39:15.05] - Speaker 2
No, but I have—
[01:39:17.01] - Speaker 1
are they keeping that a mystery? Um, you— because it came as a bit of a shock to you too, right? Like,
you—
[01:39:22.23] - Speaker 2
yeah, and they didn't accept me right away because I was not doing a really good job of explaining
what I wanted to create.
[01:39:27.28] - Speaker 1
Okay. And they're very technology-based, but also that's a pretty important element to like getting
yourself to a program like this. So like, what do you want to make? You're like, cool stuff. Yes. Maybe
they don't take you. Yeah, weird.
[01:39:40.04] - Speaker 2
And I hope they, I hope they would take me because they see this as a little bit of a disruption to the
entrepreneurial industry that exists right now. I hope they took me because they said, you know what,
she's a 50-year-old American. We want more representation of all types of women. I'll never know, but
I'm in and that's all that matters, right? You are in.
[01:40:01.11] - Speaker 1
System day. Absolutely. If We have listeners who don't know what an incubator is. Can you explain
what that is? And then can you give us what the basic run-through of this experience is going to be
like?
[01:40:10.27] - Speaker 2
Okay, so the one that I am in is— there's no particular structure, but I do have access to lots of
support, right? So I have, I have people who I can call to help me put together a pitch deck if I want to
get investment. I have people who I can sit with and discuss my project with. You met the wonderful
Alexi. I've got great colleagues working on really interesting things. So for me, the minimum value is
being in an ecosystem where I'm learning so much and I'm meeting so many different people that I
would not come in contact with daily. Yeah. And I think for any change, any life change you're in,
community— again, we're back to the, the C word. Yep. Well, back to the word community.
[01:40:53.20] - Speaker 1
I wasn't gonna say anything. I didn't even flinch.
[01:40:57.17] - Speaker 2
Because it's so important. It's about being in an environment where you see people on the same path
as you. Mm-hmm. Right.
[01:41:06.17] - Speaker 1
So that also helps to demystify what it is to a degree. Totally. Because I feel like there's— it's like
financial speak. It's just there to keep you outside.
[01:41:14.29] - Speaker 2
Jay, every day somebody is like saying an acronym. I'm like, mm-hmm, trying to like scribble it down
without looking like I'm writing. Yeah. Running home, trying to figure out what it is. And you know
what? What a blessing to learn. Absolutely right.
[01:41:30.14] - Speaker 1
So how long is this for? Okay, great question. Because you were talking about how after 3 months
you're considered a sensei.
[01:41:38.02] - Speaker 2
So basically you have to do time here to— like in prison— unlock benefits. Okay. So at some point I will
be able to have you to show you where my desk Can't wait to see your desk.
[01:41:52.12] - Speaker 1
We'll bring everyone along.
[01:41:55.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah, everyone. I have the right to be here for up to 2 years.
[01:42:00.20] - Speaker 1
Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. Whoa. Okay. That's way longer than I thought. Is it because of your program
specifically? All of them. All of them. You have the right to stay in Station F.
[01:42:10.25] - Speaker 2
That's the rule. You can be here up to 2 years. Now, what their hope is, is I have some—
[01:42:15.27] - Speaker 1
You all grow real fast.
[01:42:16.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I have some fabulous tech product. I get millions of dollars worth of investment, and I'm gone,
and I'm a success story. Yeah.
[01:42:23.29] - Speaker 1
Do they have ownership in this business you're starting? No, they have no equity.
[01:42:27.23] - Speaker 2
No, it's not that type of— no, really?
[01:42:30.08] - Speaker 1
Yeah. So is there like government financing in it? Like, how, how do they justify that? I don't know.
[01:42:35.27] - Speaker 2
Okay. I don't know. Now, I'm not here for free. I do have to pay.
[01:42:39.15] - Speaker 1
Oh, you're paying every month?
[01:42:40.14] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Um, I pay like €300 and some euros for my desk.
[01:42:44.26] - Speaker 1
Cheaper than WeWork, and it's putting you around a lot of great people. So do they— with the
resources they're giving you, then do you have access to lawyers, to anybody that we can help you?
[01:42:53.24] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[01:42:54.03] - Speaker 1
Okay, wow. You know, I mean, again, it's not— that's worth $300 a month.
[01:42:57.16] - Speaker 2
It's not free. Like, the initial discussion could be free, but you know, these are paid resources. It's just—
we're back to what I'm trying to solve for women, is you need to be in the space where you have
access to things that you know are reliable, that can help you.
[01:43:11.22] - Speaker 1
At what point then do you start looking for financing? So that's a golden question because I'm full of
golden questions. You are.
[01:43:19.00] - Speaker 2
You're the golden boy. Long gone are the days where you could just rock up and be like, I have this
fabulous idea. Yeah. Why? Because a wonderful thing called AI and technology means that we can
develop more than we've ever been able to do before. Yeah. So a lot of businesses now want to be
like, okay, well, show it to me. They want an MVP. Yeah. Minimum Viable Product.
[01:43:40.17] - Speaker 1
Well done!
[01:43:41.16] - Speaker 2
Hey, um, so they want you to have something, yep, that you can explain how it's going to work. I have
a very loose version of that, but I'm a non-tech founder. Yeah, so I've got, uh, two big hurdles, one of
which is how do I do the tech? Yep. Now if I hire somebody externally, it's expensive. It's expensive,
and then it's not my product, right? I'm relying on somebody else to deliver my core business. So I
really want to find somebody that I will have come with me as a partner that is a tech lead.
[01:44:18.20] - Speaker 1
Okay, so you're looking for a technical co-founder, right? I would love that.
[01:44:21.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah, okay. Now a lot of people will say you don't need that because we have the tools, but you do
need somebody. You need an engineer. You don't want to build a crummy thing that falls apart in the
end. Yeah. So that's a big hurdle, is finding somebody, because a lot of the tech founders have their
own project that they're passionate about.
[01:44:39.01] - Speaker 1
Of course, yeah, yeah. Right?
[01:44:40.03] - Speaker 2
So finding somebody that knows enough, that's willing to be with me on this, I'm now really looking at
that. Plus, I don't want to be alone. I want somebody to be with. So that's a hurdle. Yep. And then
when you get to investment, do I want— which I was having a discussion with Colleen I'm gonna build
this damn business by myself if I have to bootstrap it. I've been there, right? And because I believe in
this—
[01:45:03.10] - Speaker 1
I love your attitude so much. Thank you. Yeah, keep going. But I'm—
[01:45:06.19] - Speaker 2
because I believe in it. Now, will it go slowly?
[01:45:09.06] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
[01:45:10.12] - Speaker 2
But it's never— it's never the money. It's the, uh, it's the, uh, social capital.
[01:45:17.28] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:45:18.08] - Speaker 2
It's them saying, I know this person, or them opening the door. That's what they bring, and they bring
this a wonderful ecosystem to support you. And I'd love to have that.
[01:45:26.28] - Speaker 1
But it is an interesting dichotomy that you see, right? Between, is this— are you going to create like a
lifestyle business? You're going to create something that supports you and maybe grows to support a
few people? Are you going to grow something that disrupts an entire industry? Are you looking to take
on massive amounts of investment? Do you have an idea for that already?
[01:45:42.29] - Speaker 2
I don't yet. Okay. I really don't. And, and I, and I get, I get myself anxious every time I think about it and
I get terrified and scared.
[01:45:50.02] - Speaker 1
No, I'm getting you anxious. You're at me. Let's talk it through.
[01:45:52.12] - Speaker 2
But that's okay. We like to, you know, this, this— isn't it lovely to disrupt ourselves? Coral— where did I
read this? Coral does not grow in still water. It needs agitation. We need agitation. We do. And this is
a very big agitation in my life.
[01:46:07.14] - Speaker 1
Big agitation. Yeah.
[01:46:08.11] - Speaker 2
And, um, I just want this to succeed, and I'm like, by all means necessary. It's good.
[01:46:14.10] - Speaker 1
So I think, because I do think that on the one hand you have potentially global aspirations. You want to
equip a significant percentage of womankind. Yes. Which, believe it or not, is over half the population.
I've done some research. Hello there. I know some numbers. Right. But that's a lot of people. But then
on the far side of that, when you're talking about AI specifically and the promises that are being made
about it, whether or not they can be held up, you know, I finally started working on one of my own
projects that the main hangup was exactly that, engineering. I spent a lot, I mean, I wrote about it in
my book if anybody's read that, but I had spent a ton of money. Please do. Everybody, yeah, I had
spent a ton of money on development with a studio. And again, it was one of these situations where I
decided to pull money out of my business, pour it into this new project, get started on it, and then
URSAF came after me for like more money than I'd made the year before. And that was a very, very
stressful time for me.
[01:47:14.21] - Speaker 1
And it more or less killed the project. And now fast forward, I'm very skeptical on the AI side of things.
There are a lot of big moral and ethical questions. Absolutely. A lot of stuff going on with it.
Absolutely. But it's a tool that's here that like is being forced in everything we're using. And I was like,
well, I would like to learn how to use this. But also this is something I've been dreaming of for a
decade that now the door is potentially open. I don't know if I'll be able to make anything with it or not.
And I made a lot of progress on it. As a result, this is a very long buildup to my observation and
possibly my question. Okay. But I don't know if you have to choose between one or the other
anymore. I don't know if you need a lot of money. I mean, after the subsidies for AI go away, you
might need a lot of money and it may not actually be worth it anymore. Yes. So something to very
much be aware of, but to be able to leverage with a small team, huge impact by being able to create
everything it is you're looking to create.
[01:48:06.01] - Speaker 1
Maybe you can have a little bit of both.
[01:48:07.28] - Speaker 2
I would love to. You know what? I have one thing I've really come to.
[01:48:11.17] - Speaker 1
Can I deep dive into this real quick?
[01:48:13.26] - Speaker 2
Because you've miraculously, because you're the golden child, have just fallen upon a subject that I've
been talking about since July 4th. Okay. It's that in-between. It's that feeling of being in-between,
which I feel between the US and Catorjuyé. Yeah. Right? And that in-between can be really unsettling
because you feel like you have to choose either or. Yeah. But if you can step back and like you just
said, be present and realize it's not A or B, it can be a mix of all sorts of things. That's so liberating.
Yeah. That's so liberating.
[01:48:51.29] - Speaker 1
I think we're in a really freeing time right now. Oh my gosh, we really are. There's some real— I mean,
there's a lot that's going wrong in the world. This is where I struggle with it a lot because I know I
really feel the privilege of where I am now after somebody who had so not the best life in a lot of
ways, but still better than many. But I don't actually know how to approach some of these questions,
especially around like the ethics with AI, the backlash to it that we're seeing globally. When is it
appropriate to use? When is it not? It's a tool that's here and it's doing great things as far as like
figuring out how we can fold proteins. Like there's a million great applications for it and there are so
many evil and bad ones and so much going on.
[01:49:31.00] - Speaker 2
But haven't we always gone through that?
[01:49:33.00] - Speaker 1
Yeah, and I mean, we're navigating how we use a new technology right now. Right. It's shocking
because it's doing something I can't do, but I'm dangerous enough to guide it and to make decisions
and to get it there. And it's a project I've been thinking about for over a decade. Yeah. So it's like, it's
there, and I can see the difference between that and when I try to spin up something I haven't been
thinking about. Right. You see how much of the work is really done in your own head. Right. I don't
think that AI— I mean, AI can make you dumber for sure for a lot of reasons, but if you're using it as a
tool for something that you would be working on anyways, I don't think so. Anyways, well, not
necessarily. I'm very pro-AI. Well, yeah, I would imagine so, because that's kind of the backbone of
what you're doing, right?
[01:50:09.17] - Speaker 2
It's like, we will always be the drivers of the boat. Yeah. Right? AI to me is nothing but a tool, and we've
always had AI. We have Grammarly, we have, you know, Autocorrect, that's a form of AI. Now, yes, we
have things that are smarter. We are the center of the universe. We're telling AI how we want it to
work. Now, when it hallucinates and comes up with problems, I actually— here at Station F, there was
a fabulous discussion around the future of AI. And there was somebody there from Louis Vuitton, and
they were using AI and to go into iterations of design, and AI hallucinated and did something weird
with, with the shirt. And the designer stepped back and said, wait, this error is actually interesting. So
even when things are not as we want, again, we step back and look. Well, that— it's not a failure.
That's actually really interesting what happened there. Sure.
[01:51:09.06] - Speaker 1
Which is really nice when it's a shirt, when it's whether or not you should take blue bleach as medicine,
maybe not so good.
[01:51:14.26] - Speaker 2
Okay, yes, you're right, but I wouldn't consult AI for those things.
[01:51:18.00] - Speaker 1
No, well, this comes down to how do you use the tool, right? And I feel like if there's anything—
because I mean, I, I have, I have books that have been stolen by Meta, allegedly, right? So yeah,
according to The Atlantic. Okay, so that's their reporting. That's crummy. They've got their database
and you can go in and they use this to train their models. I didn't get compensated for that. That's
clearly wrong. A lot of what they've been doing is wrong. A lot of our— again, our society is sick. Like,
the fact that people think like we can just go as hard as we can break all the rules and the laws
because it won't matter because by the time we end up in court, we're already going to have won. So
it's going to be fine. That kind of attitude is garbage and we need to stop that. That's wrong.
[01:51:50.21] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[01:51:50.27] - Speaker 1
Where your approach is, you know, and I know you, but your approach, the entire thing you're trying to
do is a very human-first thing and AI is a tool within it. For me, the project that I'm building is also very
human-first. I'm like, how do I help small businesses in Paris and how do I help Parisians, visitors,
families to enjoy exploring the city? More than they would otherwise. So I see it— I— that for me, I
have no problem with it in that sense because it's like, what we're using this to get us closer to the
world we want to live in. Yes. Well, at the same time, it's causing all kinds of environmental and social
problems. And so those are things we have to— yes, we have to deal with.
[01:52:26.01] - Speaker 2
And I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish we had better answers for that.
[01:52:31.13] - Speaker 1
Well, the answers we have are going to require elections and significant amounts of regulation, I think
is more than anything. I don't believe in the whole like use it or get left behind side of things. I think
the majority of my business does not need AI at all. There are elements of it where it's like, yeah, we
can use it to smooth out some processes and whatever. For me personally, I want to hire people. I
want people to be working on stuff. I want to live and work with people I enjoy. I'm not looking to
automate jobs away. I want to use— if we use any automation, whether it's AI or otherwise, it's to
make people's lives easier. Absolutely. To make our impact greater. Yeah. To use as leverage. So
you're right.
[01:53:08.27] - Speaker 2
So this is it. I want us to find a way to use this powerful tool. Yeah. To benefit society. Yeah. And there
has to be— again, it's— it must not just be black and white. There has to be a solution in between to
have this structure and this tool make lives easier for people to connect them to resources to help
them, you know. So let's, let's go back to my single mom in Ohio. Yeah. AI can help her tonight to
develop a website. Yeah. It's thanks to that that she can very quickly become self-sufficient. Yeah.
Right. And maybe she doesn't have the money or the resources to do anything but that. So how can
we find a way, which is our human challenge always, to do good with what we have?
[01:54:05.20] - Speaker 1
I think it's a both-and, right? Like, I think it's very much how do we empower you and educate you to
get you to a place? Because the one thing, like, you've seen the people doing this where it's like, you
know, they ask one of the AI bots, like, build me a business that'll make me $1,000 a month, you know,
whatever. And then it basically ends up building something that's like just selling AI hot tips or
whatever. It's so crazy. Obviously, like, there's a laziness that's here. It's also bringing out the worst in
so many people. The, the idea man feels freed from reason and logic and etc. But this is where I think
what you're doing, what you're proposing, is filling the gap. Because that single mother in Ohio, sure,
she might be able to go to AI and say, help me make a website, but there are a lot of steps in there
that it's going to have to walk her her through to get there. There are a lot of decisions she's gonna
have to make that she may not know what's best because she doesn't have the education. And it
comes back to like, well, what are you actually selling?
[01:55:02.10] - Speaker 1
Right. Who are you selling to? And even if she were to use an AI tool to figure those things out, there
are questions that need to be asked that maybe she's not aware of yet. Right. And so to have a
resource like what you're suggesting building, what you're out here to build, to help guide that process
makes total sense to me because I think so much of it, what you said earlier, it comes back to like not
knowing what we don't know.
[01:55:25.29] - Speaker 2
We don't know what we don't know.
[01:55:27.11] - Speaker 1
This is why I think a lot of people actually really are unsuccessful at using AI in particular to code or to
build a thing. And we always see is a million like day planners coming out, right? Like I tracked my
activity today. There's 8 million of those that people have done. Totally. Because for one, they don't
know there's not an actual problem they're trying to solve. They're just doing it to do it, which is fine.
Nothing wrong with like making something and learning, but I think a lot of it comes down to also, if
you haven't been around it long enough, I'm not an engineer, but I've worked with engineers for a long,
long time. So I, I, I'm pretty aware of what I don't know and what I'm not capable of doing. And so if
you can step in and fill in that gap for people, I think that's, I don't know. I've sung your praises for a
minute here, I guess, but like. Well, no, but that's great.
[01:56:09.26] - Speaker 2
But you've also mentioned the hurdles I have. There's a lot of mistrust out there. I know this. And I am
proposing also using a tool that people mistrust.
[01:56:20.14] - Speaker 1
I mean, that is a big hurdle in and of itself right now because there's a growing backlash to AI because
of all the things that are happening around it and the people that are shoving it in our faces.
[01:56:31.28] - Speaker 2
And so it's such a shame that we have this beautiful tool. Yeah. That we have used to hurt and
marginalize others. Yeah. But we do that all the time.
[01:56:41.08] - Speaker 1
This is the problem with humans. Endless growth and exploitation.
[01:56:44.12] - Speaker 2
I mean, with all the technology we have, all those resources, all the scientists, we cannot come up
with something that is more environmentally—
[01:56:53.11] - Speaker 1
We can. Friendly? We're still stuck in bigger is better. Right. And so there's like more data centers,
more everything, more whatever. And so then something like Deepseek comes out And it's like, well,
we built something that's pretty good with like cheap components, etc. Right. And it consumes less.
So there— that it'll happen. I mean, we're in a heat wave in Paris right now. We can't— we can't survive
this if we're going to keep barreling towards the edge of that cliff. No. And that's that promise of like,
oh, well, AI will solve climate change. Like, well, we better get on top of that. Right. Much faster than
we are right now. Right. So incentives, if we don't have regulation, then maybe social pushback, like
more of a general outrage, is the one tool we do have.
[01:57:32.20] - Speaker 2
I heard somebody posing the question to me about AI. Yeah. And they said, would you listen to a
friend that lied to you 5% of the time?
[01:57:43.24] - Speaker 1
Yeah. And you never knew when it was— and 5% is slim depending on what you're asking. Yeah, it lies
a lot more than 5% of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately, I do think that there's still value, even if not the
majority of people swing to it. A lot of people will want like someone they trust to guide them. Yes,
yes. And I think that that's the human element of what you're doing as well. It's not just AI validating.
Oh my God, absolutely not. No, somebody being like, yeah, this is legit. Like, we've looked into it.
[01:58:07.23] - Speaker 2
The primary driver is the woman on the other end. Yeah.
[01:58:11.20] - Speaker 1
Um, one of the exciting things also that we're going to be doing at the— after this episode that you can
see in my vlog if you happen to watch, is unboxing our new camera setup that apparently has sitting
in a point relais. Um, are we gonna do that? It's Thursday. I wish. Unfortunately, it's on the other side
of town. We're gonna get— we have 3 new iPhones that Back Market has— well, they're refurbished, I
think, iPhones. So, I mean, they're new to me, but we have 3 iPhones from Back Market, uh, who's
generously provided those to simplify our system here and keep it unified. Uh, so I will be unboxing
that when I go home. The first 4 episodes have been done with our janky mixture of setup here, so if
you see a change after episode 4, which is going to be the one of all 4 of us together. You'll see in 2
weeks. Then it is thanks to Back Market that things have gotten better. My bag has gotten lighter, and
it's why we get to hang out in a fun space outside of this one. But this has been really good, and I'm
looking forward to coming back to talk to you more.
[01:59:04.16] - Speaker 2
Well, I hope I'm still here.
[01:59:07.13] - Speaker 1
That got dark real fast. I hope you're still here too.
[01:59:10.16] - Speaker 2
No, I'll be here. I'm good. Yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
[01:59:14.09] - Speaker 1
Perfect. Thanks, Jane. Thanks, Jay.
[01:59:16.02] - Speaker 2
Appreciate it.
[01:59:16.07] - Speaker 1
Thanks everyone for listening. Yeah, absolutely. Make sure you go follow her at Jane Birch. Uh, it's
just @JaneBirch, isn't it? Yeah, it's just @JaneBirch. @JaneBirch on Instagram or TikTok. Probably
Instagram. Instagram it is. Uh, and then of course stick around if you haven't subscribed to the show
yet, be sure to subscribe and follow along. We're going to be following her story for the rest of this
year. Yes, the 50-year-old tech. The 50-year-old femtech AI startup founder. That's a pretty— it's gonna
be good. I can't wait. I hope so.
[01:59:42.27] - Speaker 2
I'm proud of you. Thank you. I'm proud of you.