Insulating Your Food

What is Hilchos Shabbos | Rabbi Meir Finkelstein (Yeshivat Kerem B'Yavneh)?

Shiurim by Rabbi Meir Finkelstein in KBY.

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מוסיף הבל Mosif Hevel. מוסיף הבל Mosif Hevel means that you're not allowed to do הטמנה Hatmana with something that adds heat. הטמנה Hatmana means insulation. So you're not allowed to insulate your food, which means to keep your food warm, to cover your food, with something that itself adds heat. So all these things in our משנה Mishna are themselves heat sources. It's a little hard for us to understand. One of the examples is חול chol, sand. What does it mean that sand is a heat source? It's hard exactly to understand what the משנה Mishna is referring to. But that's how רש\"י Rashi explains the משנה Mishna, that these are examples of things that are דברים המוסיפין הבל devarim hamosifin hevel. That's the first משנה Mishna in במה טומנין Bameh Tomnin. Turn to דף נ\"א עמוד א' daf nun-aleph amud aleph for a second. So on the top of נ\"א עמוד א' nun-aleph amud aleph, the משנה Mishna three lines from the top, לא כיסהו מבעוד יום לא יכסנו משתחשך lo khisahu mibe'od yom lo yekhasenu mishetachshakh. If you did not cover your food from Friday, you're not allowed to cover it from when it gets dark, from when שבת Shabbos starts. What does that mean? That if you didn't cover it from Friday, you're not allowed to cover it when שבת Shabbos starts? So רש\"י Rashi says here on the משנה Mishna, this is talking about what we call הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. And this becomes the very first principle of הלכות הטמנה Hilchos Hatmana, a very important principle. There are two types of הטמנה Hatmana. There's הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel and הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel means you do your insulation with something that in and of itself adds heat. הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel means the insulator is not adding heat, but it is keeping the heat in—a towel, a blanket, things of that nature. Now, our משנה Mishna is saying that the line in this משנה Mishna, לא כיסהו מבעוד יום לא יכסנו משתחשך lo khisahu mibe'od yom lo yekhasenu mishetachshakh, which רש\"י Rashi explains is talking about a דבר שאינו מוסיף הבל davar she'eino mosif hevel. So that tells you that the איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel applies even on Friday. You're not allowed to insulate a pot of food with something that adds heat even on Friday to let that continue into שבת Shabbos. הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel, however, only applies on שבת Shabbos. If you put—if you insulate your food—you know, you put your food covered with a blanket on Friday, it can remain covered with the blanket on שבת Shabbos. But you're not allowed to cover the food with a blanket on שבת Shabbos. So those are the two איסורים issurim of הטמנה Hatmana: הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel and הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel is אסור assur even on Friday. הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel is only אסור assur on שבת Shabbos. Why is there an איסור issur of הטמנה Hatmana? Where does it come from? What's the מקור makor for the איסור issur of הטמנה Hatmana? Are we talking about an איסור דאורייתא issur d'oraisa, an איסור דרבנן issur d'rabbanan? What's the מקור makor for the entire איסור issur? So if you take a look at the גמרא Gemara on דף ל\"ד daf lamed-daled. It's the גמרא Gemara on דף ל\"ד daf lamed-daled discusses the whole background for the איסור issur of הטמנה Hatmana. הטמנה Hatmana is a דרבנן d'rabbanan. So that's for sure. But what is the reason for this גזירה gezeira of הטמנה Hatmana? So take a look at the last three lines of דף ל\"ד עמוד א' daf lamed-daled amud aleph. The גמרא Gemara says: ואמר רבה אמר רבא מפני מה אמרו אין טומנין בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל משחשכה ve'amar rabbah amar rava mipnei mah amru ein tomnin bedavar she'eino mosif hevel misheshachsha. What's the reason that חז\"ל Chazal said you're not allowed to do הטמנה Hatmana with a בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל bedavar she'eino mosif hevel once שבת Shabbos starts? Answers רבא Rava: גזירה שמא ירתיח gezeira shema yartiach. What does that mean, גזירה שמא ירתיח gezeira shema yartiach? So רש\"י Rashi explains גזירה שמא ירתיח gezeira shema yartiach means that you might come to insulate your pot—right? Let's say it's שבת Shabbos morning, and I have a hot pot of chicken, and I want to make—I want to go to שול shul, but I want to keep the pot hot. So I wrap it—wrap it in a blanket, right, לכבוד שבת קודש likhvod Shabbos kodesh blanket, and I wrap it, I want to keep it hot. So says רש\"י Rashi, that's not לכבוד שבת קודש likhvod Shabbos kodesh, that's לחילול שבת קודש lechillul Shabbos kodesh. You're not allowed to do הטמנה Hatmana on שבת Shabbos. Why? Because I might see when I come to wrap that pot that actually the chicken started to cool down a little bit. Chicken started to cool down a little bit, so then I'm going to want to heat it up. If I heat it up, I might end up violating בישול bishul. בישול bishul? I thought אין בישול אחר בישול ein bishul achar bishul. Yes, the ראש Rosh explains we're talking about a דבר לח davar lach. And יש בישול אחר בישול בדבר לח yesh bishul achar bishul bedavar lach. If you remember, this was the whole מקור makor, this רש\"י Rashi, that יש בישול אחר בישול בדבר לח yesh bishul achar bishul bedavar lach. So that's the whole rationale for הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. Because it might be that you'll have a liquid that you'll find when you want to insulate it that actually cooled down, and then you'll come to heat it up, and you'll violate בישול bishul because יש בישול אחר בישול בדבר לח yesh bishul achar bishul bedavar lach. We don't allow you to do הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel on anything—solids, liquids, whatever the food. That is the rationale for הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. Continues the גמרא Gemara: אמר ליה אביי אי הכי בין השמשות נמי נגזר amar leh abaye ee hakhi bein hashmashos nami nigzar. If that's the case, so why don't we אסור assur הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel in בין השמשות bein hashmashos as well? So אמר ליה amar leh: נו סתם קדירות רותחות הן no stam kediros ros'chos hein. No, in בין השמשות bein hashmashos most pots are still hot in בין השמשות bein hashmashos. So there's no concern that you're going to find that the pot is cooled down or anything in בין השמשות bein hashmashos and you might come to violate בישול bishul. בין השמשות bein hashmashos there's no איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar she'eino mosif hevel. Fine. That's אינו מוסיף הבל eino mosif hevel. Continues the גמרא Gemara: ואמר רבה ve'amar rabbah on עמוד ב' amud beis מפני מה אמרו mipnei mah amru מפני מה אמרו אין טומנין בדבר המוסיף הבל ואפילו מבעוד יום mipnei mah amru ein tommin b'davar hamosif hevel v'afilu mib'od yom? Why did חז\"ל Chazal say there's an איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel even on Friday? Answer is רבא גזירה שמא יטמין ברמץ שיש בה גחלת Rava gezeirah shema yatmin b'remetz sheyesh bah gacheles. Because if you're allowed to insulate with things that add heat, you might end up using רמץ remetz, רש\"י Rashi says is ashes, that have coals mixed in, so you might end up using ashes with coals mixed in to insulate. So אמר ליה אביי ויטמין amar leih Abaye v'yatmin. What's the problem with that? Okay, what's wrong with insulating with coals? גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeirah shema yechateh b'gechalim. Right, we're back to, we've passed go, right? You're not allowed, the concern is that if you use the coals, you might end up being מחתה בגחלים mechateh b'gechalim and then that's a concern of either בישול bishul or הברה havarah depending on what the scenario is, it's at least הברה havarah if you have a pot that's not מבושל mevushal not cooked yet, or if it's a liquid that was נצטנן nitztanen it'll also be בישול bishul. Fine. So עד כאן הגמרא ad kan haGemara. הגמרא haGemara says that the reason for the איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar she'eino mosif hevel is you might end up cooking. The reason for the איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeirah shema yechateh b'gechalim. הרמב\"ם haRambam, if you look at the sheets that I gave out, הרמב\"ם haRambam seems to have had a different גירסא girsa in the גמרא Gemara than רש\"י Rashi. Look at הרמב\"ם haRambam in פרק ד' הלכה ב' perek daled halacha beis. הלכות ב' וג' halachos beis v'gimmel. Let's read הלכות ב' וג' halachos beis v'gimmel, writes הרמב\"ם haRambam, מן הדין היה שטומנין בדבר המוסיף הבל מבעוד יום וישאר התבשיל טמון בשבת min hadin hayah shetomnin b'davar hamosif hevel mib'od yom v'yisha'er hatavshil tamun b'Shabbos. It would have logically been the case that you're allowed to do הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel on Friday and allow the insulation to remain into שבת Shabbos. שהרי משהין על גבי האש בשבת sheharei mash'hin al gabei ha'esh b'Shabbos because you're allowed to do שהייה shehiyah provided that it's for הרמב\"ם haRambam מבושל כל צורכו ומצטמק ויפה לו mevushal kol tzorcho u'mitztamek v'yafeh lo, for אשכנזים Ashkenazim מאכל בן דרוסאי ma'achal ben Drusai, but there is a way that you're allowed to do שהייה shehiyah, so you should have been allowed to do הטמנה hatmanah also. אבל אסרו חכמים להטמין בדבר המוסיף הבל מבעוד יום aval asru chachamim lehatmin b'davar hamosif hevel mib'od yom. But חז\"ל Chazal said you're not allowed to do הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל מבעוד יום hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel mib'od yom. Why not? גזירה שמא תרתיח הקדירה בשבת gezeirah shema tartiach hakederah b'Shabbos. So this is already very different than our גמרא Gemara. גזירה gezeirah that it might come out that the pot is going to over boil on שבת Shabbos, ויצטרך לגלותה עד שתנוח הרתיחה v'yitztarech legalosah ad shetanuach haresichah, and you're going to need to uncover the pot to let the boiling subside, ויחזור ויכסה בשבת ונמצא טומן בדבר המוסיף הבל בשבת שהוא אסור v'yachzor v'yechaseh b'Shabbos v'nimtza tomen b'davar hamosif hevel b'Shabbos shehu assur. And then you're going to end up reapplying the cover on שבת Shabbos and you will have ended up violating הטמנה hatmanah on שבת Shabbos, which is אסור assur. So we don't allow you to do הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel from ערב שבת erev Shabbos because it might lead to a הטמנה hatmanah on שבת Shabbos. לפיכך מותר להטמין בדבר המוסיף הבל בין השמשות lefichach muttar lehatmin b'davar hamosif hevel bein hashmashos. But therefore you are allowed to do הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel during בין השמשות bein hashmashos. Why? שסתם קדירות בין השמשות כבר רתחו ונחו מבעבוען וכיוון שנחו שוב אינן רותחין she'stam kederos bein hashmashos kevar raschu v'nachu mibibuan u'keivan shenachu shuv einan ratchin. Most קדירות kederos in בין השמשות bein hashmashos are not going to overboil at that point. So if you're following what's going on, הרמב\"ם haRambam flips the גירסא girsa, right? In the גמרא Gemara, הגמרא haGemara said אמר רבא מפני מה אמרו אין טומנין בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל משחשכה amar Rava mipnei mah amru ein tommin b'davar she'eino mosif hevel mishechashechah and said גזירה שמא ירתיח gezeirah shema yartiach. So הרמב\"ם haRambam must have had the גירסא girsa מפני מה אמרו אין טומנין בדבר המוסיף הבל מערב שבת mipnei mah amru ein tommin b'davar hamosif hevel me'erev Shabbos and the answer is גזירה שמא ירתיח gezeirah shema yartiach. Fine. Then הלכה ג' halacha gimmel in הרמב\"ם haRambam. וכן מן הדין היה לטמון התבשיל בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל בשבת עצמה v'chen min hadin hayah litmon hatavshil b'davar she'eino mosif hevel b'Shabbos atzmah. You should have been allowed to do הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar she'eino mosif hevel on שבת Shabbos itself. אבל אסרו חכמים דבר זה aval asru chachamim davar zeh. Why? גזירה שמא יטמין ברמץ ויהיה בו ניצוצות של אש ונמצא חותה בגחלים gezeirah shema yatmin b'remetz v'yihyeh bo nitzotzos shel esh v'nimtza choseh b'gechalim. But if you're allowed to do הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar she'eino mosif hevel on שבת Shabbos, you might end up doing הטמנה hatmanah with ashes that have a little sparks and you'll be חותה בגחלים choteh b'gechalim. לפיכך אסור להטמין דבר חם בשבת ואפילו בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל lefichach assur lehatmin davar cham b'Shabbos v'afilu b'davar she'eino mosif hevel. Because you might come to do that, so then חז\"ל Chazal forbade all הטמנה hatmanah. So that's the second רבא Rava that it's גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeirah shema yechateh b'gechalim. הרמב\"ם haRambam read that as דבר שאינו מוסיף הבל davar she'eino mosif hevel, the exact flip of our גירסא girsa. So basically רש\"י Rashi and הרמב\"ם haRambam have flipped גירסאות girsa'os which leads to different reasons for the respective איסור גזירה issur gezeirah. נפקא מינה nafka mina between רש\"י Rashi and הרמב\"ם haRambam says one potential נפקא מינה nafka mina. The one potential נפקא מינה nafka mina is what would be the הלכה halacha of הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל בין השמשות hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel bein hashmashos? By הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל בין השמשות hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel bein hashmashos, according to הרמב\"ם haRambam, הרמב\"ם haRambam explicitly said הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל בין השמשות hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel bein hashmashos is מותר muttar. However according to רש\"י's Rashi's read, so הגמרא haGemara only said הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar she'eino mosif hevel is מותר muttar בין השמשות bein hashmashos. It didn't say הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel is מותר muttar בין השמשות bein hashmashos. So it comes out again bottom line according to הרמב\"ם haRambam so הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmanah b'davar hamosif hevel On Friday is אסור assur. But בין השמשות bein hashmashos is מותר mutar. Because, right, following the logic, if you started it on Friday, so then it's going to be so hot and it's going to overheat. But if you only apply the הטמנה hatmana once בין השמשות bein hashmashos hits, then it won't overheat. That's okay according to the רמב״ם Rambam. On שבת Shabbos, הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar hamosif hevel is certainly going to be אסור assur. That's the רמב״ם Rambam. What about רש״י Rashi on הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar hamosif hevel? So רש״י Rashi says הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar hamosif hevel is always going to be אסור assur—Friday, בין השמשות bein hashmashos, שבת Shabbos. What about הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar she'aino mosif hevel? So הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar she'aino mosif hevel is מותר mutar on—let's start with the רמב״ם Rambam, right—מותר mutar on Friday, אסור assur on שבת Shabbos. What about בין השמשות bein hashmashos? רמב״ם Rambam doesn't say anything about בין השמשות bein hashmashos. Presumably, it would be אסור assur, because if it's אסור assur on שבת Shabbos, so then we would אסור assur בין השמשות bein hashmashos as well, which is just ספק שבת safek Shabbos. According to רש״י Rashi, הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar she'aino mosif hevel is going to be מותר mutar on Friday. It's going to even be מותר mutar בין השמשות bein hashmashos because there's no concern of גזירה שמא יחתה gezeira shema yechate, but it's going to be אסור assur on שבת Shabbos itself. Actually, according to the רמב״ם Rambam, I don't know what we say בין השמשות bein hashmashos for הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar she'aino mosif hevel. Let's leave that as a question. רמב״ם Rambam doesn't say, so I don't know what the רמב״ם Rambam would say about that. Okay, עד כאן ad kan the introduction to הטמנה hatmana. I'll pause it there for questions to this point. Go ahead, Jonathan. What did רש״י Rashi say according to—for בין השמשות bein hashmashos for שאינו מוסיף הבל she'aino mosif hevel? רש״י Rashi says הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar she'aino mosif hevel בין השמשות bein hashmashos is מותר mutar. Yes. But if we have a גזירה gezeira about—that you can't do insulation because גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeira shema yechate b'gechalim with the המוסיף הבל hamosif hevel, why isn't that גזירה לגזירה gezeira l'gezeira? It's a good question. It's a good question. I'm not sure. Not sure. I was wondering the same thing. Wondering the same thing. Okay. So here's a major question in ראשונים Rishonim. This is still... Okay. Major question in ראשונים Rishonim. We learned when we learned שהייה shehiya that although there's an איסור issur of שהייה shehiya, there are ways to be מתיר matir שהייה shehiya. Right? שהייה shehiya—just to חזר chazer, right—is you're not allowed to leave food on the fire from before שבת Shabbos into שבת Shabbos. Now, there were a number of היתרים hetterim. If it's כדרא חייתא kidra chaysa, if it's fully raw when שבת Shabbos starts, that was a היתר hetter. If it's—for אשכנזים Ashkenazim—מאכל בן דרוסאי ma'achal ben drosai, that was a היתר hetter. If it's גרוף וקטום garuf vekatum, that was a היתר hetter, right? You have a בלעך blech. So do those קולות kulos apply to הטמנה hatmana? If הטמנה hatmana is a similar איסור issur to שהייה shehiya—in the sense that, let's say רש״י Rashi just told us הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bidavar hamosif hevel is a גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeira shema yechate b'gechalim and שהייה shehiya is also גזירה שמא יחתה בגחלים gezeira shema yechate b'gechalim—so should we say in the same way that we will create solutions for שהייה shehiya and make it that you won't be מחטא בגחלים mechate b'gechalim? Right? What's the סברא sevara for כדרא חייתא kidra chaysa? Well, it won't be ready till tomorrow anyway, so you're not going to stoke the coals. What's the סברא sevara of גרוף וקטום garuf vekatum? So, simply put, right—we had a little—or what's the סברא sevara for גרוף וקטום garuf vekatum? Either there's a היכר heker that you're not going to come to stoke the coals, or somehow you've created a scenario that's מוכח מתוכו muchach mitocho that you've been מסלק דעת mesalek da'as from the גחלים gechalim, and that will be a scenario in which you're not going to come to stoke the coals. Fine. So would we say the same thing by הטמנה hatmana? So this is a big מחלוקת machlokes in the בעלי תוספות ba'alei Tosfos on דף מ״ז עמוד ב׳ Daf Mem Zayin Amud Beis. On דף מ״ז עמוד ב׳ Daf Mem Zayin Amud Beis, תוספות Tosfos דיבור המתחיל dibur hamaschil במה טומנין Bameh Tomnim, the first תוספות Tosfos in פרק במה טומנין Perek Bameh Tomnim, so תוספות Tosfos quotes the רשב״ם Rashbam. And the רשב״ם Rashbam says that just like when it comes to שהייה shehiya, we have קולות kulos like כדרא חייתא kidra chaysa and מבושל כמאכל בן דרוסאי mevushal k'ma'achal ben drosai, so too those קולות kulos will apply to הטמנה hatmana. רבינו תם Rabbeinu Tam, however, disagrees. רבינו תם Rabbeinu Tam says that those קולות kulos only apply to שהייה shehiya; they do not apply to הטמנה hatmana. Why would you be מחלק michaleik? If both are a concern of שמא יחתה בגחלים shema yechate b'gechalim, what's the reason to be מחלק michaleik? So רבינו תם Rabbeinu Tam says a very good סברא sevara. רבינו תם Rabbeinu Tam says שהייה shehiya—what's the scenario of שהייה shehiya? שהייה shehiya is a pot sitting on top of a fire. So the pot sitting on top of the fire, so then it's open to the air. So your stoking the coals is not going to do much anyway. It—stoking the coals will somewhat speed up the cooking process, but since it's exposed to the cold air, stoking the coals is not going to do that much. But הטמנה hatmana, your pot is insulated, your pot is covered. So if you stoke the coals and the heat is trapped inside the insulation, that's going to be a much faster cooking. So even when we say when it comes to שהייה shehiya that we're not concerned you're going to come to stoke the coals, but for הטמנה hatmana we are still concerned you're going to come to stoke the coals, because there the heat is trapped, so there's more of a concern of that you will stoke the coals. How do we פסקן לדינא pasken ledina? So if you open up the... The שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch מחבר Mechaber says that we do not apply the קולות kulos of שהייה shehiya to הטמנה hatmana. The רמ\"א Rama brings the רשב\"א Rashba as a יש אומרים yesh omrim. If you have the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch open, so in סעיף ז sif zayin, שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch writes כל היכא דאסרינן הטמנה אפילו בקדירה מבושלת כל צורכה אסרינן ואפילו מצטמק ורע לו Kol haicha de-assrin hatmana afilu bekedeira mevushela kol tzorka assrin ve-afilu mistameik ve-ra lo. Right? Even מבושל כל צרכו mevushal kol tzorko מצטמק ורע לו mistameik ve-ra lo which would have been מותר muttar for שהייה shehiya, אסור assur for הטמנה hatmana. רמ\"א Rama writes וכן עיקר ויש מקילים Vekhein ikar. Veyesh mekilin etc. etc. There are מקילים mekilin. That מקילים mekilin is the רשב\"א Rashba. The רשב\"א Rashba says that it is מותר muttar. The רמ\"א Rama concludes במה ובמקום שנהגו להקל על פי סברא זו אין למחות בידם אבל אין לנהוג כן בשאר מקומות Bema u-vimkom shenahagu le-hakel al pi sevora zu ein limchos beyadam aval ein linhog kein bishar mekomos. If you already have the מנהג minhag to be מיקל meikel like the רשב\"א Rashba, if that's the מנהג המקום minhag hamakom, that's the מנהג המקום minhag hamakom, but the רמ\"א Rama says we shouldn't be establishing the מנהג minhag that way לכתחילה lechatchila. Ideally, we should be מחמיר machmir for רבינו תם Rabbeinu Tam. Fine. Another ramification of the שהייה shehiya הטמנה hatmana either parallel or lack of parallel is the question of בדיעבד bedieved. Right? When we learned הלכות שהייה Hilchos Shehiya, we learned what's the הלכה halacha if you did שהייה shehiya, are you allowed to eat the food בדיעבד bedieved? So what's the הלכה halacha if you did הטמנה hatmana, are you allowed to eat the food בדיעבד bedieved? So the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch writes in סימן רנז סעיף א siman resh nun zayin sif aleph that if a person did הטמנה hatmana בדבר המוסיף הבל bedavar hamosif hevel, even on Friday, the food is אסור assur even בדיעבד bedieved. Take a look: שלחן ערוך רנז א Shulchan Aruch resh nun zayin aleph, אין טומנין בשבת אפילו בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל אבל בספק חשיכה טומנין בו ואין טומנין בדבר המוסיף הבל אפילו מבעוד יום ואם הטמין בדבר המוסיף הבל התבשיל אסור אפילו בדיעבד Ein tomnin beshabbos afilu bedavar she-eino mosif hevel aval besafek chasheicha tomnin bo ve-ein tomnin bedavar hamosif hevel afilu mibiod yom ve-im hitmin bedavar hamosif hevel hatavshil assur afilu bedieved. Says the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch: by הטמנה hatmana בדבר המוסיף הבל bedavar hamosif hevel, it is going to אסור assur the food even בדיעבד bedieved. The רמ\"א Rama here writes that there's a יש אומרים yesh omrim that if you did it בשוגג beshogeig it's מותר muttar. Look at the רמ\"א Rama: יש אומרים דאם שכח והטמין בשוגג בדבר המוסיף הבל שרי לאכול Yesh omrim de-im shachach vehitmin beshogeig bedavar hamosif hevel shari le-echol. So what are they arguing about? So the גאון מוילנא Vilna Gaon in the ביאור הגר\"א Biur HaGra here in סעיף קטן ו sif katan vav writes that the רמ\"א Rama is going like the שיטת shittas הרי\"ף Rif about שהייה shehiya. The רי\"ף Rif in the סוגיא sugya of שהייה shehiya פסקנד paskened that if you have something that's מבושל כל צרכו mevushal kol tzorko מצטמק ויפה לו mistameik ve-yafeh lo, which is an איסור issur of שהייה shehiya according to the רי\"ף Rif, if you did שהייה shehiya בשוגג beshogeig it's מותר muttar בדיעבד bedieved. So the רמ\"א Rama is saying similarly when it comes to הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel, if you did it באיסור be-issur but בשוגג beshogeig, it's going to be מותר muttar בדיעבד bedieved. So Rabbi Wiederblank pointed out that this רמ\"א Rama is לשיטתו lishittaso, that the רמ\"א Rama assumes that he at least brings down the יש אומרים yesh omrim of the רשב\"א Rashba that we apply the קולות kulos of שהייה shehiya to הטמנה hatmana. So even though the רמ\"א Rama was not willing to be מיקל meikel that way לכתחילה lechatchila and he said לכתחילה lechatchila you should be מחמיר machmir against the רשב\"א Rashba, but with respect to the הלכות halachos of בדיעבד bedieved בשוגג beshogeig, the רמ\"א Rama was willing to rely on that parallel and say just like by שהייה shehiya we're מתיר mattir בדיעבד bedieved בשוגג beshogeig so too by הטמנה hatmana we're מתיר mattir בדיעבד bedieved בשוגג beshogeig. One more point about the שהייה shehiya הטמנה hatmana parallel and then I'll pause if there are any questions. What do you say about טוח בטיט toach betit? Right? טוח בטיט toach betit, if you remember, right, we're doing a חזרה chazarah of all of הלכות שהייה Hilchos Shehiya right now because, you know, we gotta apply them to הטמנה hatmana. So what was טוח בטיט toach betit? So טוח בטיט toach betit was we said like that was your best, that's your get out of jail free card. That's the best היתר heter for שהייה shehiya if you are in... anyone remember? If you're אשכנזי Ashkenazi. I just, I wasn't there but you said \"in\", so... oh, very good. Excellent. So if you're ספרדי Sefardi, the whole היתר heter of טוח בטיט toach betit does not, does not apply. But if you're אשכנזי Ashkenazi, so then טוח בטיט toach betit is a great היתר heter. We said טוח בטיט toach betit is if you, if you cover the coals with plaster. So then it's going to be a big טרחא tircha to get to the coals, no concern of שמא יחתה בגחלים shema yechate bagechalim. That's always going to be מתיר mattir שהייה shehiya for אשכנזים Ashkenazim. So we discussed what's our modern day equivalent of plaster, how many pieces of tape according to the חזון איש Chazon Ish, locking the door, שבת Shabbos mode maybe, we discussed it at the time. Right, okay, so that was a big, that was a big discussion about טוח בטיט toach betit. What do you say by הטמנה hatmana? What if you do a טוח בטיט toach betit on the הטמנה hatmana? Is that going to be, is that going to be מותר muttar? So the דרכי משה Darkei Moshe in סעיף קטן ז sif katan zayin, סימן רנז סעיף קטן ז siman resh nun zayin sif katan zayin, quotes the הגהות מרדכי Hagahos Mordechai quoting the ראב\"ן Ra'avan and the אגור Agur and the תרומת הדשן Terumas HaDeshen and the אור זרוע Or Zarua that this is מותר muttar לכולי עלמא lechulei alma. טוח בטיט toach betit will be מתיר mattir הטמנה hatmana לכולי עלמא lechulei alma. And it's brought down להלכה lahalacha in the רמ\"א Rama in סימן רנז סעיף ח siman resh nun zayin sif ches, writes. the רמ\"א Rema רנ\"ז ח' Reish Nun Zayin Chet. והטמנה שעושין במדינות אלו שמטמינין בתנור וטחין פי התנור בטיט שרי לכולי עלמא VeHatmanah SheOsin BiMdinot Elu SheMatminin BaTannur VeTachin Pi HaTannur BeTit Sharei LeKulei Alma. If you do טח בטיט Tach BeTit, that's going to be מותר Mutar. משנה ברורה Mishnah Berurah says be מחמיר Machmir. משנה ברורה Mishnah Berurah in סעיף קטן מ\"ז Se'if Katan Mem Zayin says is טוב להחמיר בזה לכתחילה Tov LeHachmir BaZeh LeChatchilah. Fine. But it's interesting because why is he being מחמיר Machmir? So he writes in the שער הציון Sha'ar Tziyun סעיף קטן מ\"ה Se'if Katan Mem Hei, what's he going to be מחמיר Machmir about? You can't be מחטה בגחלים MeChatteh BaGechalim if you have it plastered shut. So why are we being, if the whole איסור Issur is שמא יחטה בגחלים Shema YeChatteh BaGechalim, what are we being concerned about? No, the שער הציון Sha'ar Tziyun says we're concerned that you're going to do הטמנה Hatmanah with coals and not be טח בטיט Tach BeTit. So if he goes as far as to do that, שמא יחטה בגחלים Shema YeChatteh BaGechalim. That's what the שער הציון Sha'ar Tziyun says. But then it's interesting because in סעיף קטן מ\"ו Se'if Katan Mem Vav, the שער הציון Sha'ar Tziyun says that the מקור Makor to be מקיל Meikil is the אור זרוע Or Zarua, right? The אור זרוע Or Zarua was one of the four ראשונים Rishonim, four or five ראשונים Rishonim that the דרכי משה Darchei Moshe quoted. So in סעיף קטן מ\"ו Se'if Katan Mem Vav, the שער הציון Sha'ar Tziyun writes if the מחמירים Machmirim would have had the אור זרוע Or Zarua, they wouldn't have been מחמיר Machmir. But nevertheless, the משנה ברורה Mishnah Berurah thinks you should be מחמיר לכתחילה Machmir LeChatchilah. טוב Tov, that's the פסק Psak of the משנה ברורה Mishnah Berurah. Okay, עד כאן Ad Kan the question of שהייה Shehiya and הטמנה Hatmanah parallels. Pause if there are any questions before we get into a very למעשה Lema'aseh question. Okay, so let's go a little bit further. Presumably, if you're not wondering at this point, so then it's only because I'm going too fast and not giving you any time to think. But if I were talking a little slower and giving you time to think, so then you would have wondered at this point, or maybe you're wondering already: If there's an איסור Issur of הטמנה Hatmanah and you're not allowed to cover your food, how can we ever put covers on our pots? I take, you know, I take some chicken, I take some שניצל Schnitzel out of the fridge on שבת Shabbos morning, put it in a pot. Am I allowed to cover that pot? הטמנה Hatmanah? I have a, you know, I have a plate of food, and let's say, you know, someone has a plate of food and they're waiting for someone to come home. They're waiting for, you know, if their son's back from ישיבה Yeshiva, and they don't stop learning, they're learning and learning and learning, lunch time has come, they're not coming, they're aggravating everybody, making them crazy, not coming home, so what do you, you want to, at least you're going to keep the food, you're going to yell at him when he comes home, but you're going to keep the food hot for him, right? They wrap the food up, הטמנה Hatmanah! So is it מותר Mutar, is it אסור Asur? Are you allowed to ever put a covering on top of a pot on שבת Shabbos? So there's a רשב\"א Rashba. The רשב\"א Rashba writes in דף מ\"ב עמוד ב' Daf Mem Bais Amud Bais דיבור המתחיל ומכלל הדברים Dibur HaMat'chil U'MiKlal HaDevarim. I'll read to you the לשון Lashon of the רשב\"א Rashba. I don't have the רשב\"א Rashba, I wrote it down, the לשון Lashon, I'm sorry you don't have it in front of you. The רשב\"א Rashba writes as follows: ומכל מקום להטיל עליה כלי לשמרה מן העכברים או שלא תתלכלך באפרורית שרי, שאין זה כטומן להחם אלא כשומר ונותן כיסוי על גבי קדירה U'MiKol Makom LeHatil Aleha Kli LeShamrah Min HaAchbarim O SheLo Tistalchech BeAfrurit Sharei, SheEin Zeh KeTomen LeHachem Ela KeShomer VeNoten Kisui Al Gabei Kdeirah. רשב\"א Rashba says הטמנה Hatmanah means you're not allowed to insulate the food for the purpose of insulation. You're not allowed to cover the food in order to keep it hot. But you are allowed to cover a pot in order to prevent mice from getting it, or in order to prevent it from getting dirty. Okay, so if you're concerned that mice will come after your food, you're allowed to cover your pot. If you're concerned that the food will get dirty, you're allowed to cover your pot. Sounds like from the רשב\"א Rashba though, if you don't have those considerations, not allowed to cover the pot. The ר\"ן Ran י\"ט עמוד א' Yud Tes Amud Aleph in the דפי הרי\"ף Dapei HaRif, the end of דיבור המתחיל תנו רבנן Dibur HaMat'chil Tanu Rabbanan, quotes this רשב\"א Rashba, and it's brought down להלכה LeHalacha in שולחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch. Take a look in סימן רנ\"ז סעיף ב' Siman Reish Nun Zayin Se'if Bais. רנ\"ז סעיף ב' Reish Nun Zayin Se'if Bais, writes the שולחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch: אפילו תבשיל שנתבשל כל צרכו אסור להטמין משבת אפילו בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל. ומכל מקום לשום כלים על התבשיל כדי לשמרו מן העכברים או כדי שלא יתטנף באפרורית שרי, שאין זה כטומן להחם אלא כשומר ונותן כיסוי על הקדירה Afilu Tavshil SheNitbashel Kol Tzorko Asur LeHatmin MiShabbos Afilu BeDavar SheEino Mosif Hevel. U'MiKol Makom Lashum Kelim Al HaTavshil Kedei LeShamro Min HaAchbarim O Kedei SheLo Yitaneif BeAfrurit Sharei, SheEin Zeh KeTomen LeHachem Ela KeShomer VeNoten Kisui Al HaKdeirah. The רשב\"א Rashba. What's the מקור Makor in ש\"ס Shas for this? So the וילנא גאון Vilna Gaon in סעיף קטן י' Se'if Katan Yud in the באור הגר\"א Biur HaGra... Two, four, five lines from the top. ותח את פיה בבצק ולא בשביל שיחמו אלא בשביל שיהיו משומרים V’tach es piha bevatzek velo bishvil sheyeichamu ela bishvil sheyihyu meshumarim. You're allowed to cover the cover the top if it's not that they should get hot, rather they should be protected. Now רש\"י Rashi happens to have a different פשט pshat in this גמרא Gemara, but the וילנא גאון Vilna Gaon says this גמרא Gemara, if you don't understand like רש\"י Rashi, the simple read of the גמרא Gemara, the what it's saying is, if your intention is not to keep it hot, your intention is to to keep it safe, so then that's not a violation of הטמנה hatmana. Okay though, but how do we put how do we cover pots? Because we're not concerned about mice most cases. Sometimes you're concerned about dirt, sometimes you are, meaning I'll say not just mice, it's bugs, so you don't want bugs to get to your food or you know, sometimes dirt is a concern. So, so if that's why you're covering it, so then אי הכי נמי ein hachi nami. But not every time we put a cover on a pot on שבת Shabbos are we really concerned about mice or bugs or or or dirt. So, so what's the story with with covering pots on שבת Shabbos? So there's a very important רב משה Rav Moshe. There are two important רב משה Rav Moshes. I gave you one on the sheet, but there's the one I want to quote right now, the second one is the one you have, let's let's discuss the first one first. So in אגרות משה אורח חיים חלק א' סימן צ\"ה Igros Moshe Orach Chaim Chelek Aleph Siman Tzadi Hei, this is the one you do not have. רב משה Rav Moshe lays down a very important כלל klal. רב משה Rav Moshe says the הלכה halacha that הטמנה hatmana is only מותר muttar when you do not intend to keep it hot is only when you're not using a כיסוי המיוחד לה kisui hameyuchad lah. You're not using a designated pot cover. You're using a blanket, you're using a towel, you're you're using something that's not a pot cover. Then the הלכה halacha is, if your intention is to keep it hot, that's הטמנה hatmana, and if your intention is just to keep the mice out or to keep dirt out, that's not הטמנה hatmana. But if you're using a כיסוי המיוחד לה kisui hameyuchad lah, you're using a covering that is a designated pot cover, רב משה Rav Moshe says that's מותר muttar even if your intention is to keep the food hot. Why? Because anyways you need to cover the pot. You you cover a pot for many reasons at the same time. You want to keep the food hot, and you want to keep dirt out, and you don't want anyone to knock over the pot and for it to spill. A pot cover serves many purposes at once. So even if when you put the cover on, your intention is to keep it hot, since the pot covering is serving all those purposes, so then רב משה Rav Moshe says that's מותר muttar. רב משה Rav Moshe is מדייק m’dayek this in the לשון lashon of the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch. If you look back in the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch, and I when I read the רשב\"א Rashba and I read the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch, I felt like I was being a little bit dishonest because I already knew this דיוק dyuk and I was not emphasizing it for you. But it's pretty clear if you read the words slowly. Right? Let's read the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch again. אפילו תבשיל שנתבשל כל צרכו אסור להטמין בשבת אפילו בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל Afilu tavshil shenisbashel kol tzorko assur lehatmin beShabbos afilu bedavar she’eino mosif hevel. ומכל מקום לשום כלים על התבשיל כדי לשמרו מן העכברים וכדי שלא יתטנף באפרורית שרי Umichol makom lashum kelim al hatavshil kedei leshamro min ha’achbarim uchedei shelo yitaneph be’aphruris shari, שאין זה כמתמין להחם she’ein ze kematmin lehachem, אלא כשומר ונותן כיסוי על הקדירה ela keshomer venoten kisui al hakedera. Now isn't that a if if you read that slowly and translate it literally, isn't that a funny expression? If you cover it to prevent to guard it from mice, or so that it shouldn't get dirty, it's מותר muttar because that's not like covering it to keep it hot, rather it's just like guarding it and putting a pot on and and putting a covering on the pot. What was that last part of it's like you're putting a covering on the pot? I know I'm covering the pot. That's that's what we're doing here. The whole point is I'm covering the pot not to keep it hot, I'm covering the pot to keep out dirt. So why does the שלחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch, and from the רשב\"א Rashba, why does the רשב\"א Rashba say it's מותר muttar when you cover it not to keep it hot, but to keep out dirt, because then it's like you're guarding it and like you're covering the pot? I know you're covering the pot. So רב משה Rav Moshe is מדייק m’dayek, no, what it's saying is a pot cover is מותר muttar. When you have a pot cover, that's מותר muttar. So if you do something that is like a regular pot cover, דהיינו de’hainu you're covering it to keep out dirt, you're covering it to protect to keep out mice, which are also functions of pot covers, then it's מותר muttar. We can say it's like a regular pot cover, that's not הטמנה hatmana. הטמנה hatmana is when you have something that's not a regular pot cover and you're using it for heat, that's the איסור issur of of הטמנה hatmana. Fine. Fine. הלכה למעשה Halacha l’ma’aseh, very, very big נפקא מינה להלכה nafka mina l’halacha. What do you say about the following שאלה sheilah? Let's say I have schnitzel wrapped let's let's let's say very simply. Can I wrap schnitzel in tin foil on שבת Shabbos? Is it designated cover? Tinfoil is certainly not a designated cover. Tinfoil's tinfoil. You use tinfoil for a lot. Tinfoil's not a pot cover. Tinfoil's tinfoil. Sometimes you can use it to cover things. Tinfoil's not a designated cover. You cover everything with tinfoil. So look at רב משה'ס Rav Moshe's תשובה teshuvah that I gave you. רב משה Rav Moshe is in אורח חיים Orach Chaim חלק ד' Chelek Daled הטמנה Hatmana אות ג' Os Gimmel. רב משה Rav Moshe writes, or רב משה Rav Moshe was asked, האם מותר לכרוך בשבת דבר גוש מבושל צונן בנייר אלומיניום Ha'im mutar lichroach b'Shabbos davar gush mevushal tzonen b'niyar aluminum, which is aluminum foil, ולחממו בהפסק קדירה ul'chamemo b'hefsek kadeira? Meaning, can I wrap a דבר גוש מבושל צונן davar gush mevushal tzonen, means a solid cold fully cooked food, in tinfoil and heat it up with a הפסק קדירה hefsek kadeira? Let's say, heat it up on the פלטה platta, רב משה Rav Moshe is saying in a way that would be מותר mutar to heat it up on the פלטה platta. So עיין iyun our שיעורים shiurim from last זמן zman when this is מותר mutar. I'm not saying always are מותר mutar, I'm just saying I'm not going into that right now. עיין iyun those שיעורים shiurim when it's מותר mutar. So writes רב משה Rav Moshe תשובה teshuvah. The answer to this question is דבר צונן מותר להטמין בין שלא יחום בין שלא יצטנן יותר davar tzonen mutar lehatmin bein shelo yachom bein shelo yitztainen yoser. So this is a הלכה halacha we're going to have to get to בלי נדר bli neder, that הטמנה hatmana is only on hot foods. But if you have a cold food and you want to insulate it so that it either stays cold or that it doesn't get colder, so then that's מותר mutar. ואפילו שתפוג צינתו מעט נמי מותר Va'afilu shetaphug tzinoso m'at nami mutar. Even if you want it to just get a little less cold, that's also מותר mutar as long as it's not heating. ובמוסיף הבל אסור כמפורש בסימן רנ\"ז סעיף ו' U'vemosif hevel assur k'meforash b'siman resh nun zayin seif Vav, but by מוסיף הבל mosif hevel it's אסור assur even if the food's cold. And now writes רב משה Rav Moshe: ובהפסק קדירה נמי הוא מוסיף הבל U'vhefsek kadeira nami hu mosif hevel. Right, so why is רב משה Rav Moshe giving this whole אריכות arichos? Because the question was about a cold food. So he's saying if the food is cold, there's no איסור issur of הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar she'eino mosif hevel. But by דבר המוסיף הבל davar hamosif hevel there is an איסור issur. So ובהפסק קדירה נמי הוא מוסיף הבל u'vhefsek kadeira nami hu mosif hevel. Now, if you wrap something in tinfoil and put it on the פלטה platta, so this is also, we're jumping a little bit, but we have to, we're going to hopefully learn this סוגיא sugya as a unit of itself. But רב משה Rav Moshe is assuming right now: הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar hamosif hevel, does that mean the insulator provides heat or what if it's insulated on top of something that's providing heat? Like if it's covered in tinfoil on a פלטה platta. So רב משה Rav Moshe says that's also הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar hamosif hevel because there's הטמנה hatmana and מוסיף הבל mosif hevel even though the הטמנה hatmana and the מוסיף הבל mosif hevel are not coming from the same place. So ובהפסק קדירה נמי הוא מוסיף הבל ואסור בהטמנה ולכורכן בנייר אלומיניום נמי הוא הטמנה U'vhefsek kadeira nami hu mosif hevel v'assur b'hatmana ul'chorcham b'niyar aluminum nami hu hatmana. רב משה Rav Moshe writes, to cover something with tinfoil on שבת Shabbos is הטמנה hatmana. So why? The answer is, well if you're covering it with tinfoil to get it hot and tinfoil is not a כיסוי המיוחד לה kisui hamiyuchad lah, so then it would be אסור assur, it would be an איסור issur of הטמנה hatmana to cover something with tinfoil, to wrap something with tinfoil I should say on שבת Shabbos. רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman, so I heard this רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman from רב וידרבלאנק Rav Wiederblank. He quoted it from the מנחת שלמה חלק ב' סימן מ\"ז Minchas Shlomo Chelek Bais Siman Mem Zayin. I did not find it inside, but it could be because there are different editions of the מנחת שלמה Minchas Shlomo, number the תשובות tshuvos differently and it's a little confusing. So could be that the edition I was using didn't have it in the right place. But I'll give you that מראה מקום mareh makom if you want to hunt it down. But רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman says that when we say that הטמנה hatmana is a remarkable רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman, you gotta digest this. Right? רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman says this דין din that הטמנה hatmana is מותר mutar when you're not having כוונה kavanah for heating, right? So if you're having כוונה kavanah to keep out מיאוס maiso, to keep out dirt, הטמנה hatmana is מותר mutar. רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman says that's only when it comes to הטמנה בדבר שאינו מוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar she'eino mosif hevel. But not when it comes to הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar hamosif hevel. When it comes to הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar hamosif hevel, it's going to be אסור assur even if your intention is to keep out dirt or מיאוס maiso. Why is this רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman life changing? What's a major problem in virtually every Jewish home is going to come out of this רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman? What's that? Using aluminum foil. Aluminum foil we already said is a problem רב משה Rav Moshe. Who here has ever heated up food on a hot tray? Ever? Was the pot covered? No, all your pots are open, uncovered? I had, it was a soup I just left it on top. No cover? No cover. Okay, so then you're good to go. Most people, I think, have put on a hot tray. You have an electric hot tray. So non-adjustable, right? So, so you put the pot according to the or your tin foil pan, they're covered. One second. שלמה זלמן Shlomo Zalman says the הלכה halacha that you're allowed to cover with something even when the intention is not to preserve the heat only applies to a דבר שאינו מוסיף הבל davar she'eino mosif hevel. If you have something covered on a fire, on a hot tray, that's הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. So then how can you ever have any covering with food on a hot tray? It's a major, major problem according to רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman. So Rabbi Wiederblank said, this must be מותר mutar because we've never heard of anyone saying it's אסור assur, but צריך עיון tzarich iyun why according to רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman. Right? We've never heard anyone come out and say, nobody can use hot trays for this reason, while some people don't like hot trays for other reasons. But nobody's ever said, a hot tray is, you know, always going to be הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. Never heard of such a thing. So it must be that it's מותר mutar. What do you say? Why can't you just say that he assumes that the דבר המוסיף davar hamosif and the thing that is מטמין matmin have to be the same thing? Meaning the thing that is מטמין matmin? So that'll be a big assumption. We're going to learn that סוגיא sugya. We're going to see that's generally how we do assume. That's called הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. Right? That'll be a massive חידוש chiddush to say רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman is like, you know, because that's the general understanding in that סוגיא sugya, which we'll see when we get there. So Rabbi Wiederblank suggested that what you might have to say according to רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman is there's even within things that are מותר mutar there's a distinction. There's a distinction between covering your food for the intention of keeping out mice and a כיסוי הקדירה kisuy hakedira, a כיסוי המיוחד kisuy hamyuchad. It could be a כיסוי המיוחד kisuy hamyuchad is not שייך shayach to הטמנה hatmana. A pot cover was not included in the גזירה gzaira בכלל bechlal. Not שייך shayach to הטמנה hatmana if it's the designated pot cover. When you're in the realm of things that are not the designated pot cover, so then the שולחן ערוך Shulchan Aruch says it's אסור assur if your intention is to heat it up and מותר mutar if your intention is to keep out the mice. And רב שלמה זלמן Rav Shlomo Zalman says that only applies to a דבר שאינו מוסיף הבל davar she'eino mosif hevel. By a דבר המוסיף הבל davar hamosif hevel they're both going to be אסור assur. But that's only when you're dealing with things that are not the כיסוי המיוחד kisuy hamyuchad. If you have the כיסוי המיוחד kisuy hamyuchad, וודאי vaddai that's going to be מותר mutar, that was never בכלל bechlal the גזירה gzaira. Fine. One awkward amount of time left. Okay. One last full הערה heara for the day and then maybe we'll start the next topic but I don't think we're going to finish it. So, coming back to the, this is really just a very small הערה heara. I really made this הערה heara already. That the first משנה mishna in במה טומנין Bameh Tomnin lists examples of things that are הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel and we don't really have them nowadays. One thing you just have to figure out is there's something tricky in the משנה mishna here, right? The משנה mishna says מוכין mochin is something that are הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. What are מוכין mochin? So if you look in the last רש״י Rashi on the משנה mishna on מ״ז ע״ב Mem Zayin Amud Beis, מוכין mochin: כל דבר רך קרוי מוכין kol davar rach karuy mochin, any soft material is called מוכין mochin, כגון צמר גפן kegon tzemer gefen, like cotton wool, ותלישי צמר רך של בהמה utlishai tzemer rach shel behema, the wool shearings that are soft from an animal, וגרירת בגדים בלויים ugriras begadim bluyim, and worn out pieces of clothing. So if you have worn out clothing, like rags, the משנה mishna says that's הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. I don't know what that means. משנה mishna says, the משנה mishna says they need to be לחים lachim, בזמן שהם לחים bezman shehem lachim. So if you had wet rags, sounds like the משנה mishna is saying that's הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel. I don't know how to explain that. But, but if that scenario would ever come up, you'd have to figure out if that's a problem with this משנה mishna. The only, you know, we בדרך כלל bederech klal don't have things from the משנה mishna. The only type of garment you might have that's הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel כשלעצמו keshelatzmo is like an electric blanket or something like that. That would be, but I don't think that's too common either. בסדר Beseder. Fine. I don't want to get too bogged down in that. It's very hard to know how to apply these things in the משנה mishna. Fine. The next thing I want to discuss, and maybe we'll start this topic and not finish it because we only have four minutes left, and then we'll אם ירצה השם im yirtzeh Hashem pick up with it next week. This is... Is maybe the biggest question in הטמנה hatmana. The, I mean they're all big questions, but this is like a huge question, which is: How covered is covered? Is הטמנה hatmana only if you cover everything? What if something's uncovered? Is an inch uncovered, is that still הטמנה hatmana? What if just the top is uncovered? What's the most biggest נפקא מינא nafka mina להלכה l'halacha למעשה lemaaseh ממש mamash from this שאלה shayla? Anyone know? Crockpot. Are you allowed to use a crockpot? If you think about it, let me spell out the שאלה shayla and then we'll have to, I don't even know if we'll get to crockpots next week, we have to learn the סוגיא sugya and then we have to see if it'll be next week or the week after, but we'll see what happens. But the שאלה shayla of crockpots is what is a crockpot? So there is an outside like shell which is the heating element and it's all, it heats up on all sides etcetera. And then there's the inside pot, which, the insert that can be taken out. So now when you have, if you put that insert inside the heating element, that is literally הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל hatmana b'davar hamosif hevel. Right, literally. אין לך מוסיף הבל גדול מזה Ein lecha mosif hevel gadol mizeh and it's insulating the pot. What's the catch? The top is open. There's a cover, but the cover is not a problem of הטמנה hatmana. So do we say because the top is not insulated it's not a הטמנה hatmana שאלה shayla? Or no, since it's insulated all around even though the top is exposed that is a הטמנה hatmana שאלה shayla. So that's going to be a major, major דיון diyun. Maybe we'll pick up with this next time. We'll start next time אם ירצה השם im yirtze Hashem with a big, big discussion in the ראשונים Rishonim. How covered, how insulated is called insulated? When does it become הטמנה hatmana? We're going to need to be מברר mevarer a number of things along the way and then come back to crockpots, but there'll be a number of שאלות shaylos that are תלוי taluy on these things. So אם ירצה השם im yirtze Hashem next week, we'll start with that.