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In this episode, I get to connect and chat with Deanna Kleinhenz, founder of Expedition Courage - a backpacking guide service who's mission is to support those courageous enough to explore the unknown, and give you the tools and guidance you need to feel confident in the wild. She is also a Wilderness First Responder and Leave No Trace Master Educator who is passionate about helping women learn to become self-sufficient in the backcountry. She believes adventure is a catalyst for personal development and transformation and time spent backpacking gives us the insight and perspective shift that will cultivate more purpose and intention in our lives. Dive in and join us in this great discussion!
Connect with Expedition Courage on Instagram here and Deanna's personal page here, plus be sure to check out her website expeditioncourage.com! EXCLUSIVE OFFER: to receive $500 off your retreat, use code "podcast".
To try a free week of my signature Fit for Hiking program to get you fit from the trails (gym AND at-home options) start HERE.
For next level fat loss strategies, hormone/gut health help, serious performance goals and unparalleled support, apply for Mountain Metabolic coaching. Learn more HERE.
For more free wellness resources, hiking/travel guides, and other blog posts, check out my website HERE.
What is Fit for Hiking?
Where fitness and outdoors meet. In this space we chat all things hiking, exercise, wellness, adventure, motherhood, and metabolic health from a female perspective! Get ready to learn + be inspired to live your fullest, most adventurous life!
Hi, my name is Brady and I'm a longtime fitness professional and Midwest girl turned mountain living hiking addict. And combining my knowledge of fitness and passion for hiking, I've helped hundreds of women get lean and strong for the trails. Think of this as your one stop shop for both education and inspiration on all things female wellness, trail talk and adventure. Hiking, female metabolism, motherhood, nutrition, travel and fitness are all topics you'll hear discussed here. If you are outdoorsy and active, looking to level up your health, unlock your potential, and become inspired to live your most vibrant life, you're in the right place. You're listening to the fit for hiking podcast. Hello and welcome back to the fit for Hiking podcast. Today we have a special guest, Deanna and Deanna is a professional backpacking guide empowerment coach through hiker, and the founder of Expedition Courage. She is a true trailblazer in the world of outdoor adventure and personal growth. As the founder of Expedition Courage, her mission is to empower women through the transformative power of backpacking and wilderness immersion. Deanna's own experiences have shown her the profound impact that challenging one's self and nature can have, the way it cultivates resilience, self-reliance, and the deeper connection to one's inner wisdom. Drawing on her own expertise as a professional backpacking guide, Deanna has created a unique program that blends physical adventure with mindfulness and wellness practices. Based in Denver, Deanna has a deep reverence for the power of wild spaces to catalyze transformation. She's a passion. She is passionate about leading women into these sacred landscapes, where they can shed the noise and distractions of everyday life and reconnect with their most authentic selves. So thank you so much for being here, Deanna. Of course, happy to be here. Excited to have this chat. Yeah. Me too. There's so much to to dive into here. But today we're going to mainly be talking about how to get started backpacking safely as a female in the outdoors. What you need to know in order to prepare. Um, you know, getting some actual tangible tips from a professional backpacking guide, which is so helpful. Um, so I'm excited to learn from you about everything that you have to offer in the experience, your experiences with backpacking, through hiking, and just getting outdoors as as a woman. Yeah, definitely. I'm excited to dive into all those topics and shed some light and give some of my experience and insight to help women get out. Yeah, so if you could just start by telling us kind of how you got into the outdoors and what that looked like for you initially. Definitely. So I actually grew up in South Florida, uh, middle child of two brothers. My parents divorced when I was only two years old, so I weekends with my dad were very normal. Um, I didn't know any different. And he was a very much a big kid at heart. Um, during my childhood, he would be very intentional with his time with us. And I have nothing but fond memories outdoors from that. Um, so he took us to the beach all the time. We snorkel. We were rollerblading, biking. Um, we went to the keys to camp a lot. Fishing. So it definitely wasn't like a traditional mountains hike or outdoors type of exposure. But it was enough to instill my first sense of connection to how it felt to be outside. Yeah, definitely. I think that outdoor play as you grow up is so important and makes me sad that probably a lot of that is maybe not the case. So much for kiddos anymore. I mean, hopefully there are outliers who are not just letting their kids, like, sit inside and look at screens all the time, but I do feel like just being outside and making up games and and playing outdoors is not as prevalent as it was maybe when we were growing up. Yeah, I feel incredibly lucky to have grown up playing, uh, Tag and manhunt and just all those things. Yeah, where you weren't on a screen and you really had to use your imagination and engage and, you know, sit on the floor and play with the pine cones and. Yeah, those little things, you know. Absolutely. Okay. So when did that shift kind of to hiking, like what was your first backpacking trip experience? Yeah. So early 20s, um, I, like most people in their early 20s, didn't have a lot of direction. Um, felt pretty lost with what I was going to do with my life and my partner and I at the time, um, we were like, let's, let's go back back. And that seems like a good idea, really just came out of the blue out of nowhere. Um, so we decided to go to Ocala National Forest, which is like pine flatwoods, swamp land. It was four hours north of where I lived in South Florida. But other than, like the beach, you know, there's just not a lot of, like, hiking unless you're going into the Everglades or. Yeah. Ocala. So we did what we could with the environment that we had around us. Um, and we gathered all of this antiquated gear from his parent's garage, um, that was actually designed for car camping. So it was really old, really heavy. Um, I actually used a rolly backpack, like the kind you would use in elementary school and made you feel like a corporate boss when you were, like, ten years old. Like, that was literally my pack that I put all my stuff in. Um, the thing, like I said, was just dusty old. It was falling apart, looking back like we were so unhinged for going on this trip so unprepared. Um, didn't check the weather. We didn't have a water filter. We weren't necessarily very fit. Um, we carried tempurpedic pillows with us. We just thank God the whole gear situation was so awful. Um, I wore my mom's hiking boots from the 80s, and by day two, they fell apart, like, completely disintegrated on trail. And I was barefoot. So I got, like, everything that could go wrong logistically did. It was also August, which is hurricane season in Florida. It's stormed for two days straight. Everything was soaking wet. Heavy. We were freezing. Um, it felt like I was on an episode of survivor. And, yeah, it was pretty wild. But, like, despite all of that, for the first time in my life, I felt presence and connection to my inner being. I felt like the noise from life and societal expectations it had just, like, quieted just a bit. So I kind of consider that trip my first spiritual awakening, because for those few days I had this shift in consciousness and I felt like, wow. I actually get to choose how I live my life. I'm not just like a product of my circumstance or my environment. So it was very empowering for me. Yeah. Um, then I thought, well, what if I learned how to do this thing the right way and more efficiently? Like surely those profound realizations would continue happening. And after that I was hooked. Little by little, I just started investing in better gear, um, and googling and YouTubing my way through figuring it out and piecing it all together. As someone that just. I didn't have a hiking community. I didn't have parents that exposed me to this. I just had a taste of nature in the backcountry and like, that was it. Um, yeah. So that messy action just gave me more experience and confidence, um, led me to studying environmental science and geology in school. Once I got my associates, I moved to Colorado, went to see you, Boulder. And ultimately, I was just trying to figure out how to get paid to be outside. And the geology route seemed like this logical fit. So I'm still battling between what I felt like, the path I was supposed to be on versus like where my heart wanted to be. Um. And once I was deep in that undergrad program, something just felt off. I was very anxious going to school and it just like felt crippling for me. So I took a semester off and was just focusing on my mental health. And I was always hiking and backpacking, and it brought so much healing, peace and clarity into my life. I finally reached this point where I was like, you know what? I don't want to go back to CU Boulder and force myself into this life that just serves this like logical box, and it doesn't bring this spark of joy and excitement to my life. Yes, I just searched for more programs and majors, found a community college that had outdoor education. The course catalog was like rock climbing, canyoneering backpacking, risk management, outdoor leadership. And I was like, done, let's go sign up. And the rest is history. It went from just, you know, the girl in Florida doing it all wrong to creating this professional, skilled life out of it, where I'm just so passionate to help women like myself that have that urge and want to check it out, but don't know where to start. That's awesome. I liked when you said, um, messy action. Like just doing the thing, even though you kind of had no idea what you were doing, and then it sparked so much for you. Like if you wouldn't have taken that like kind of train wreck of a backpacking trip where you learned everything the hard way. Um, you might not be where you are now getting to do what you love. So just getting out there, even though it feels daunting and you probably will have I mean, I haven't talked to anybody who's been backpacking that doesn't have, like, unless they've gone on a guided trip for the first time, like a pretty hilarious story of, like, the first time that they backpacked. That's just how it goes. You learn through making mistakes. Yeah. Messy action is the way to go in so many aspects of our life because that's that's how we learn. Like, you shouldn't be all polished and have it together when you're trying something new. That's just not realistic. Absolutely. Okay. So as a professional guide now, how would you recommend someone attempt their first backpacking trek? Like what preparations should be made? What are the first steps to just get going and trying out backpacking? So first, I think if you have the opportunity to go with someone who has experience, you should absolutely do that. I mean, you might not necessarily have that person in your inner circle or life, but with the internet nowadays and social media, it's so attainable to find a community, link up with a mentor and find someone that's willing to coach you. In my opinion, that's the most. Sorry, my dogs barking. The most effective and safe method. Um, in the same way that, you know, if you have the desire to go to the gym and start exercising, you could jump into that by yourself. But it's proven that if you hire a personal trainer or a fitness coach, that's going to give you the structure, systems, community, and accountability to better help you reach those goals, right? Um, so that would be my recommendation. Find a coach, find a program, find a friend. Like link to community. I think that's just the easiest way to go about getting into the world of backpacking, because there's so much information out there. Um, and it's so broad and with so many different people. I mean, you have expeditionary backpacking, recreational backpacking, through hiking, and it all really differs based on season, location, objectives. So it could be very overwhelming, um, for someone who wants to make the transition from day hiker to overnight. Ultimately, this is why I've created Expedition Courage. Um, it's an ode to the me ten years ago that really wanted to live a more adventurous life. And it was very overwhelming. And although I found my path, it took a really long time. And I think, um, it doesn't have to be that confusing and anxious for people. And I know if there's people like me that wanted to get into it like they exist. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And there's something to be said too, for being able to try it out without necessarily having to, like, buy all of the things and you kind of don't even know what to buy when you're first getting out there. Like, you can read blogs, you can definitely like guess at it, but you might end up buying a lot of things that you maybe don't need necessarily. And if you can go with like a guided service for the first time, see if you even like it, get a feel for like, what are the things I actually used? And then you can kind of go from there. The first backpacking trip I ever did, I was with a guided service, and that was really very eye opening to me of like, okay, here's here's how I actually do this. Do I want to do this again? And what do I need in order to prepare for it? Also, it was like a good reality check as far as like my fitness level, because it literally kicked my ass and I was like, oh my gosh, okay, if I'm going to be carrying a big pack, that's very different than day hiking. Like I knew so much better. Like how to prepare for my next backpacking trip. Oh, 100%. Um, yeah. And it's not to say that you can't figure it out on your own, but just having the support and the community and leaning into that, it requires some vulnerability and like putting yourself out there. But I think that's the most safe and efficient way to get into the world of backpacking. Yeah. And why not do it properly. Yeah. Mhm. Okay. So what would you say are your top ten absolutely necessary backpacking items that you use like every single trip. Totally. So, um, I want to preface this by saying everyone is very different. I've met a lot of experience backpackers who might have a different list, but for me personally and what works for my system out in the backcountry. Backpack, sleeping pad, sleeping bag or quilt depending on season location. Um. Tent or shelter. Headlamp. My Garmin inReach lighter matches one of those. First aid kit, water treatment and having a stove or fuel or both. Yeah. Yeah that's great. That's like so concise. And those are I mean, other than food, like those are the things that you need. And yeah, when I think of items, I think of things I'm investing specifically my gear arsenal. So obviously like my hygiene stuff, I've got a little hygiene kit, um, food, but it'll again vary on trips, seas and location. There could be some trips. You're just doing dehydrated meals the whole time, and others, you know, get a little jazzy, make a pizza in the back country. But these are like the no matter what I'm bringing. Yeah. That's perfect. I think that's really helpful to just simplify it because you do kind of it almost can be overwhelming. Even though there are so many resources online, it almost is overwhelming because you see, like everybody's very extreme lists. And honestly, sometimes people are just trying to like get commissions on items so they'll like include all kinds of stuff. And it's like, yeah, those could be nice to have, but they're not necessary for like a beginning backpacking trip. So I do think it's nice to just kind of like, cut through the noise and have a simple go to list, and then you can always add to it once you kind of figure out what you need or want when you're out there. Definitely. And that's what I always tell my guest, who after the first trip with me, um, they want to know, oh, I really like this. Where should I start making my investments? It's the big four, you know, the tent, sleeping pad, sleeping bag. Yeah. Um. And what am I missing? Sleeping bag. Sleeping backpack. Duh. Sorry, but it's just really dependent on your body, your needs, how much weight you want to carry. Um, but that's where you should start. And then after, they're just little by little, add on to that. Yeah. Do you have any luxury items that you're like, this is so unnecessary, but I have to bring it. Of course, like, the pillow for me is everything. Yeah. Um, and the one I have, I think I haven't got it on Amazon. It's like a couple ounces. So. Yeah, it's it's not that much. But I used to do the stuff all your clothes into like a divvy sack kind of method. But now that I'm 30, like, I gotta take care of my neck and look after my spine and just having that pillow, it's it's everything. At the end of a long day, you you want to have a good sleep. You want to be comfortable. Exactly. That's one for me, too. I always have to bring my little blow up pillow because I cannot sleep. Just like with clothes bunched up behind my neck anymore. It's not It worked well for a while. Then all of a sudden you wake up one day, you're like, wait a minute. Yeah, can I play? Yeah. So that also, um, a back country bidet was big for me when I was hiking the Colorado Trail. And I didn't use it for what it's like, designed for. But it was a way, at the end of the day, for me to, like, just wash my face. Yeah. That's big. Like, just having that little luxury of not feeling like totally disgusting and being able to just have a little bit of hygiene is really helpful. And it conserves water because it kind of just, you know, sprays it out at the method. You're, you know, squeezing the bottle versus, you know, pouring from your Nalgene or your smart water water bottle. You're wasting so much of that resource. So it just it controls the output, which I really like. Yeah. That's so smart. I've never heard of that before. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. So what would you say some of the top mistakes that you see. Beginner backpackers make are, um. First, I think it's this idea that you have to be at a certain level or be good enough and have mastered all these skills in order to maybe graduate from. Okay, I did my first group trip where I tagged along and, you know, how do I make the jump to planning my own trip and getting people involved on my trip that I'm planning. Um, you. It's again, back to the messy action. Like you are good enough. And in order to master these skills, you have to make that leap and just go for it. So that would be one that I think is a big mistake. Just holding yourself back because we're a lot stronger and more resilient than you think. Um, also like first trip, bringing too much weight and unnecessary stuff with you. Um, when I run guided trips, we do a pre-trip orientation, and I always tell everyone, okay, show me every single thing you plan to bring on the trail and why you need it. And commonly, people will have, like, full size bottles of sunscreen. Like an outfit for every day. Yeah. And yeah, it's just those small things that when you're getting into it, you don't think about how ounces turn into pounds and how when you're out there, like you're, you're going to smell that's just the name of the game. And you can have some hygiene practices and work through that. But as soon as you put on that fresh pair of clothes, you're going to start hiking and get sweaty and smelly again. So it's not practical to have a new outfit for every day. And your back will. Thank you. Yeah. Um, you are able to shed the weight and, you know, make your toiletries and hygiene items and to travel size instead of the full size. So just like those little things where when you have a coach or a guide who can explain the whys to you, it's this aha moment, they're like, oh yeah, wait, why do I need three shirts? Let me, you know, this is fine. Um, and then I think the last mistake I see very often is. The lack of physical training. You know, having a solid baseline of fitness goes so far. And you don't have to be this crazy adventurer who summits mountains all the time. But just like knowing how to prepare, you know, your cardio and basic strength, strength, strength training, um, so you're not making it harder than it should be. Like backpacking, no matter what, it's going to be challenging and physically demanding, but you can take steps to alleviate that, so it's way more enjoyable. Um, and I see a lot of my clients, um, especially in the Rockies, show up, like, not acclimated to the altitude or, you know, just hadn't, like, done the basic training. And they still do it, like they still manage the trip. But you just see, you know, there's a little bit more of a struggle than there needed to be. Yeah. The quality of experience can go down drastically when you're just miserable, like I've experienced that, and I've also experienced having trained properly and feeling so good. So I know the difference and like it. It really does for me. It made a massive difference in like how much I enjoyed the track. Um, I've even done like the same exact trail one time, completely deconditioned for it, and the second time very much conditioned for it. And I was like, wow, this is a totally different experience. It goes so far. And I mean, like yourself, like I've been there. I mean, I just did, um, this huge three day trek in Vietnam in March. And, you know, I'm coming off my, my winter months. I did not train like I should. And I was crawling up this mountain, I did it, I managed, but the whole time I was like, wow, this is humbling. Yeah. Reminder universe okay. Yeah, definitely. Um, okay. Well, I'm curious to hear about your experience on the Colorado Trail. You just kind of mentioned that you did the Colorado Trail. Um, so for those who are listening, that might not know much about the Colorado Trail. Could you tell us a little bit about the hike and kind of what that experience is like for you? Yeah. So the Colorado Trail starts in Denver, ends in Durango. Um, the entire trail itself is 486 miles from point to point. Um, I usually round up and say 500 because I did a few extra fourteeners, side quests and all that road walking during your resupplies and trail towns. Um, but it's an incredible trail, especially if you're thinking about starting a through hike, but you aren't ready to commit to one of the the longer ones, like the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail. This is a great intro trail. Um, needless to say though, like, it's still extremely difficult. Um, and Colorado has some of the muddiest weather in the summer. So yes. Yeah, I decided to hike this trail for many reasons. Um, the most obvious is my love and passion for backpacking. I am someone who craves the challenge of feeling pushed in an incredibly difficult way. And I also had a few years of very significant loss between the years of 2020 and 2021. I lost both my father and my brother very unexpectedly, so there was a period where I was not coping very well at all. Even guiding just wasn't doing it for me. So there there's a lot of struggle with grief and finding purpose again. And deep down, backpacking, being outdoors. It was the most healing place for me. I'd always dreamt of through hiking the Colorado Trail, and for so many years convinced myself I wasn't good enough yet just that limiting belief that had been, you know, this lived in my head for a long time. And, uh. Finally, I just had this realization that if not now, when life is too short. So I just took the messy action again. I took time off work every single day. Starting January 1st, 2023, I would journal as if I was already a thru hiker. I would say I am a thru hiker, I am enough, I am skilled, I am determined and I was really working these affirmations and feeling into them. Um, to combat that, you know, present limiting belief. That said, I wasn't good enough. Yeah. Uh, a lot of mindset work went into preparing and reframing those thoughts into empowering ones. And the truth is, I just committed and followed through even though I was still struggling. Um, and once I was on the trail, I was immediately relieved, like a lot of the fear that I think we live with, it's it's so much in our heads and the what ifs of going into something. And once I was there, I was in such a peaceful, blissful state, you know, I knew I was skilled, I knew I was enough, I knew I could do this, and it was the most challenging but greatest thing I'd ever done for myself. And it gave me this space in nature, which is so healing, to actually process my grief and not run from it. I was able to reconnect with my true divine self and with courage, just put one foot in front of the other. And I came out with so much resilience, strength, acceptance and gratitude for life. I met amazing people. The through hiking community is incredible and overall it was just so much fun. So much fun. So how long did that take you to complete? So total 40 days. Um, nine of those days were either full zero's rest days or like half resupply days. Um, yeah. So it takes people anywhere, typically from 4 to 6 weeks. Really just depends on your pace, your goals. I, um, had to finish in a certain amount of time. So I took my time in the beginning, and then I had to finish because I had a guiding job in the Grand Canyon that I needed to be out, you know, back in Denver, packed up and on the road for. So I kind of had to kick my butt into gear the last two weeks and pull some big, big mile days. But the first half was really just me taking my time, having slow trail mornings, being very intentional. Um, and then the last half I had more of this social experience and just, you know, big mile goals, just sending it, just creating that community. So it was a really nice balance. That's so cool. Um, okay. So. For someone who maybe is more experienced with backpacking, like they're not necessarily a beginner, but they're interested in doing something similar to the Colorado Trail. What advice would you give for like how that experience differs from just a multi-day track that's like maybe, you know, 3 to 5 days? I think the big difference, which you kind of experience with several day treks, because I believe any adventure, you should go into it with intention. Um, but the intention you set for doing a through hike or a really long trail is so important, so crucial, because your mind and those thoughts that maybe, you know, you can shove and and ignore in your day to day life and keep yourself busy with work and responsibilities. When you're on a through hike, you can't do that. And it's so important to have, um, like a mindset practice to be able to get through the experience because you're going to have days where you're like, on top of the world feeling blissed, and then you're going to have days where you're like, what is wrong with me? Why am I choosing to, like, put myself through this agonizing experience where I'm like, you know, stuck in a hailstorm, I've got six miles to go. I'm running out of food like there's so many things that happen, and it's such a challenge on your mind. And my advice for anyone that wants to make that jump and you have a lot of like hard outdoor skills, is to focus on the soft skills and how to self-soothe, meditate, regulate your nervous system because that will that strength right there. The mindset is going to carry you through to the finish line. That is such a good point. I feel like I've been on a few backpacking treks where. Been hit with like really scary weather or just things go wrong and it makes you feel so out of control in a way that you kind of don't really experience in day to day life. Like if it's hailing or an intense lightning storm, you just go inside and it's not that big of a deal. When you're on the mountain and that's happening, you have like nothing to do but try to calm yourself down and get into like the safest position possible. So it really does require, like you said, like self-soothing practices regulating your nervous system and kind of just having that mental fortitude that you can get through it because it's not comfortable. And it really does force you to deal with your own fears and emotions, like right in that moment, it's not comfortable. And so much of it parallels to the trials and tribulations we experience in our life, where we didn't have control over some of the things that happen. And, you know, it's easy here to find ways to numb and to distract and to not deal. And when you're out in the wilderness and the elements roll through and they change your course like you have to deal, you have to be present. And the only thing you have is your mindset to get through it. So if you can have a system where you know how to self-soothe and take yourself from a really fearful, sympathetic nervous system state to calm, cool, collected and like, you know, you just do what you can and wait for the storm to pass because it always will. Yeah, yeah. I think one of the amazing benefits of, of backpacking and hiking, just in general, is that it forces you not to always be so comfortable and like we're so used to comfort in our day to day life, especially in the States, like most of us have it pretty comfortable. And yeah, we have our hard days. We have definitely a lot of stuff that we deal with, but like the basic comforts are usually there and that's not something that we have to worry about. And so putting yourself in a position where you're actively uncomfortable, it's hard, but it's very rewarding too. And it and it does build a lot of self-confidence when you can get through those situations. Absolutely. Which parallels to life and just gives you a better way to deal with it and all its ups and downs and beauty and bliss. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for for speaking on this. Where can listeners find you, connect with you, maybe learn a little bit more about your your tracks that you lead? Yeah. Um, so I'm pretty active on Instagram. You can find me there at Expedition Courage. My personal Instagram is at D ventures, d e Dot ventures. Um, I also have a Facebook page and TikTok for Expedition Courage. You could check out our website, Expedition Courage comm. We we have all things wellness hiking on the blog there. And our first women's backpacking retreat is this fall in Escalante, Utah. We just opened registration so you could check that out as well. On our website, we're giving a special discount to you listeners if you mention podcasts when signing up. That will give you $500 off of this. Wow, that's a really good deal. Uh, Awesome. Okay, well, we'll link, um, your Instagram in the show notes so people can easily find, um, both your personal and the the expedition page as well. Awesome. Yeah. Well, it's been so awesome talking to you, and I'm happy to connect with your community. This has been incredible. Yes, absolutely. Thanks again so much. And I will see you guys in the next episode. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the fit for hiking podcast. As always, I hope it leaves you feeling inspired and informed on how to take your health and adventure into your own hands. For more content like this, be sure to follow along with my daily posts at Ponytail Underscore. On a trail that's ponytail underscore on a trail. You can also stay up to date on my new episodes being released at Fit Underscore for hiking, and find more free resources at Pony Tail on a trail.com. Happy and healthy trails.