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Partners in life and business for more than 29 years, Brad and Monnica Manuel share honest conversations about leading together, navigating challenges, and building resilience that lasts.
Through stories from marriage, entrepreneurship, and coaching leaders across industries, Brad & Monnica explore what it takes to grow stronger in partnership, lead with clarity, and thrive under pressure.
Expect practical insights, candid reflections, and plenty of laughter as they reveal the lessons they’ve learned along the way - because leadership starts at home, and resilience is built together.
Okay, so we had another therapy session this week, and for the first time in a while, you know what, I felt like, it didn't feel like work anymore.
Brad:Yeah, like things aren't broken.
Monnica:Yeah, exactly. Like we turned a corner and we're walking in the same direction again. Welcome back to the manual transmission powered by coffee, curiosity, and conversation.
Brad:We are Brad and Monica Manuel. This is our podcast about marriage, leadership, parenting, and all the things that
Monnica:we Yeah.
Brad:Anything in between. So each week, we listen to an album on Sunday mornings, and we have a conversation.
Monnica:Alright. Before we dive into it, let's do Hi Lo. So we used to play Hi Lo with our kids when they were growing up and going through preteens and teens.
Brad:When did we start that?
Monnica:You know what? We asked our so our oldest is 30. We asked her this this weekend, actually. She said, you know what, mom? I don't ever remember us not doing it.
Monnica:So I thought that was cool. It's, a really core memory to them. At the time, you know, I think when we first started or whenever we were maybe it was just the times when they were tweens and teenagers when they were just like, oh, mom. I don't know. Anyway, try getting a teenager to talk to you.
Monnica:Sometimes it can be challenging. But we, they all played sports and had their activities, and we were working and running, so we made a point of sitting down to dinner at least a couple times a week, and we would play high low. So everyone had to go around the table and talk about what the high part of their week was and what the low part of the week was. So some pretty special memories.
Brad:I love that she, in reflecting on that Yeah. How it was obviously an important part of her childhood.
Monnica:And they play it with their daughter now.
Brad:Yeah.
Monnica:So sitting around their dinner table, they'll do high low, which I thought was pretty, pretty special.
Brad:So what was your high?
Monnica:Okay. My high this week oh my gosh. Okay. I learned something new about you, which, you know, doesn't happen that often. We've been best friends for about thirty years.
Monnica:So I pretty I mean, I feel like I know you pretty well, but I learned something new about you this week, and I kind of love it.
Brad:Okay.
Monnica:You like vampire stories.
Brad:Like limited vampire stories.
Monnica:Look, didn't think you liked vampire. I didn't I don't know. We've never talked about it. I was just this was a happy discovery.
Brad:There's like a spectrum. Like there's gore, which I'm not a big fan of gore.
Monnica:Okay.
Brad:And then there's fluffy.
Monnica:Like Twilight?
Brad:Oh, wait a minute. Like maybe Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Monnica:Oh, okay.
Brad:Or Twilight. That's a little too, you know, whatever.
Monnica:Not your thing. Yeah. But, so what is your thing?
Brad:Well obviously, I found something that I really enjoyed because I, that was probably my low this week was I binge watched three seasons of a Netflix show called A Discovery of Witches.
Monnica:How did you come upon that anyway?
Brad:I have no idea. Again, I think I was you left Monday
Monnica:night for
Brad:travel, I was looking for something to watch, and it's hard to find something. Oh, and we just watched Department Q
Monnica:Oh, right.
Brad:On Netflix.
Monnica:That was good. I really liked that.
Brad:And Matthew Good Yeah. Is in that show. And I found A Discovery of Witches, which he was in. Mhmm. And I was like, I I I remember clicking on it, starting it and going, I'm not watching this.
Brad:This is about witches. This is this is dumb.
Monnica:Which is what I thought you would do.
Brad:And then I would think like the first probably, you know, couple of minutes, he was he said, witches, vampires, and demons. Something along
Monnica:the You're like, there's a story here. Okay.
Brad:I'm gonna see what this is about. And I was hooked.
Monnica:You know what?
Brad:Three seasons later, thirty six hours later, I finished it.
Monnica:You alright?
Brad:Yeah, I don't have anything to watch now though.
Monnica:Well you introduced me to it so now I'm trying to watch it and you're like off on your own while I watch it.
Brad:Which is perfect because
Monnica:it's gonna take me a while to get through it though.
Brad:You gotta get through it and we can watch it as we're, you know, laying down and I can go to sleep.
Monnica:Well after four episodes, I like. I'm into it, I like it. You know, in hindsight, I should have known that you like Vampire Stories because I just chalked it up to you liking Kate Beckinsale.
Brad:Well, yeah.
Monnica:Because who wouldn't? She'd make anybody like whatever she was in, but you really liked Underworld.
Brad:That's right. Oh, that's right. I couldn't remember the name of it, but Underworld is Yeah. Was the show.
Monnica:Have a funny story about that, but I'm not gonna tell it right now. Oh. Okay. Okay. So your low was binging Was binging stuff.
Monnica:Were you just depressed that I left? Or like, what was going on?
Brad:Well, I think I just felt guilty about like I mean, I got stuff done Yeah. But it was more sitting in front of a computer while I was doing it, but I got nothing else done. I wanted to work out, wanted to get out and get some exercise.
Monnica:Well you've been pushing really hard lately, you probably just needed a break, so I think you should cut yourself some slack.
Brad:I just don't know why I
Monnica:feel You don't usually do that. Yeah. Yeah, don't feel guilty.
Brad:Okay, well my low is my low, that's what that was.
Monnica:So we're starting with lows. Okay, my low was, I almost missed my flight in Atlanta, my connecting flight, which would have made me, I don't know where I was going to sleep, try to find a hotel in the Atlanta area, which can be dodgy, or sleep in the airport, which would have sucked. So we were cutting it really close, and then the trains at Hartsfield Jackson, which is a huge airport, were running at reduced capacity, and I needed to go across I needed to go from to go two terminals away, so I sprinted. I can still be pretty fast if I need to. Turns out, caught my flight, so that was a little stressful, At least you got your
Brad:workout in.
Monnica:Right? More than I was planning. Didn't miss my meeting, so it was great. So I was but yeah, that was a little stressful. So that was probably my low.
Monnica:My high oh, yeah. I was learning about your vampire. Oh, that's right. Thing. What was your high?
Brad:My high was, I mean, you left, I think maybe part of that was this, there was some stress in you, your travel has increased You've a been traveling a lot and you you your blood pressure has been an issue.
Monnica:I got in trouble with the doctor.
Brad:Trouble with the doctor. He gave you some very specific instructions, but you've been following them and you had a doctor's appointment and you've got a glowing review.
Monnica:I sure did. I was very happy. He said, whatever you're doing, keep doing it. I was like, yes.
Brad:So that was my high. It was very reassuring, especially when I I just have felt that travel is gonna compound things. And, obviously, you're enjoying it to some degree.
Monnica:Well, it's been really productive.
Brad:But it's been hard and you've been choosing to like they've been like short bursts.
Monnica:Right.
Brad:Late night
Monnica:I've been trying to
Brad:early mornings and
Monnica:Yeah. You know, I that's some I need I'm finding my rhythm. I've been trying to find the balance between not being gone for very long and being really effective. So I'm I probably pushed a little hard on that one. I got in it after close to 1AM both nights.
Monnica:I was back to back. I was in San Antonio, then I was in I flew into Oklahoma City, drove to Lawton, Oklahoma. But I did I did all of that in, like, forty eight hours. So I was I was pushing pretty hard on that one. That was that was probably on the extreme end.
Monnica:I'm I'm finding my balance.
Brad:And then your weekends are your aid stations, which
Monnica:Which, you know, have been working pretty well, except for the weekends when there's social engagement.
Brad:There's lots going on.
Monnica:Those, I like being social, but I'm an introvert, and it drains my battery pretty fast, so it's not very recharging for me. I need time to just, like, put in an audiobook and clean the house or do yard work, paint something. I just need some, like, quiet time in my brain to recover.
Brad:That's thematic, that recovery or repair as we're kind of talking about Yeah. Today. And we we certainly didn't bury the lead regarding the vinyl that we listened to this morning, but I think it's very appropriate for Yeah. For today's podcast, our our transmission today. This album, the original album came out in 1990 too.
Monnica:Do you have that over there?
Brad:Yeah. I do have it. It's it's laying down here. But we we listened to the original one, but that album came out in 1995. And a year later, right at about a year after this, the first one came out is when I met you.
Brad:Yeah. I realized I realized quickly that that was kind of your life's anthem at the time. That album kind of reframed what female anger
Monnica:I was going through some
Brad:stuff like. So it the the original sold 33,000,000 copies.
Monnica:Dang.
Brad:It won four Grammys. And yeah, it gave voice to a whole new generation of young women who were like pissed off.
Monnica:Yeah, I was mad about a lot of stuff apparently.
Brad:Yeah. Would you
Monnica:like Cute to my best Alanis Morse impression. No. Yeah. You ought to know. Yeah.
Monnica:You ought to know. I don't want to But sing
Brad:the album, obviously the one that we're talking about, this album, the acoustic version was released ten years later. Her rerelease, and she recorded the entire album acoustically. Same songs, but just a bit softer. Yeah. A little bit more reflective.
Monnica:Wiser.
Brad:Yeah. It was it was like looking back after a therapy session or maybe a few.
Monnica:She said it when she was talking about this album, she said it was like revisiting the same emotional landscape from a different mountain peak.
Brad:Yeah. That sounds like repair. Yeah. Sounds like same truth, but just from a point of healing instead of hurt and anger.
Monnica:Yeah. Like, repair isn't denial. It's returning to the scene with curiosity and compassion because you can now.
Brad:And as we started off, we had therapy yesterday
Monnica:Yeah.
Brad:Another session. It was family therapy, and so this hits pretty close to home. Our so our daughter, we had for the better part of two years a fractured relationship with her. Old trauma had resurfaced, and what started as one single hard conversation turned into silence, and and hurt, and it kinda just spread throughout the family.
Monnica:Yeah. It wasn't just between us. It the whole family could feel the tension. We're a tight family, and so birthdays, holidays, even ordinary Sundays just felt broken. It was like grief in slow motion.
Brad:Yeah. Well, for the longest time, our reactivity was running the show. Mhmm. We were we were in our defense positions, all just showing it in different ways. I know that myself, my typical is like, I'm withdrawing.
Brad:I'm gonna like try to create space, but that doesn't off always come across as the best. You
Monnica:I don't always love that.
Brad:You were defending. I got You wanted to fix it, and you I mean, there was pain, and she was hurt as well and just choosing to stay away.
Monnica:Yeah. And it wasn't until we all finally came down from our heavily guarded high towers and finally just sat down in a safe place with someone who could help us through it, and said everything we needed to say, that things really started to shift. And the the rules were simple. We're not retreating. We're we're in this.
Monnica:We're gonna lean in. Nobody's attacking, and we really leaned into the tools of four Horsemen that Julie and John Gottman have done a lot of research around. They're really a game changer, I think. Yeah, stonewalling, defensiveness, criticizing.
Brad:Was it contempt?
Monnica:Oh yeah, mhmm.
Brad:Yeah. So, but defensiveness, to your point, we were spending so much time, like in our protective zone, like holding everyone at bay, that we couldn't heal. And, but, as soon as we were able to like be in that safe space, be in a room with someone who could kind of guide us
Monnica:through Facilitate it. Right.
Brad:Facilitate the conversation, facilitate this space, we were able to drop our guard and then not all at once, it's taken some some some some work, but little by little, we've been we've been able to to move through it. It hasn't been easy. It's often felt like we've gone two steps forward and three steps back. There were moments, a couple of sessions in which it was like, ugh.
Monnica:That
Brad:that stung. But, you know, each time somebody would open up, there would be a flinch, and your your instinct is to go and protect yourself again.
Monnica:You're afraid of being hurt. Yep. That's normal. But the air got clearer. We started seeing each other again, not just the versions of us that were shaped by Hurt, but really seeing each other again.
Brad:Yeah. We're still working on it obviously, and it's been now three months, I think we were talking about it. It's been three consistent months. I think we've been in a session almost every week. There have been a couple where we skipped a week just because of scheduling.
Brad:We're all still a little vulnerable, but now when we talk about it, we're not throwing daggers Blazing. Blame around. Yeah. But we're holding space. And again, because somebody has helped us create that space, I think we're all better versed at realizing how we can hold space for one another.
Monnica:Sure. And that's the beauty of repair. You know, it's not clean all the time, but it is courageous, and I really like that line, reactivity protects, but repair connects. It's like that reactivity and that it's it's you're reactive and defensive because you're trying to protect yourself. But as long as you're doing that, you can't start the healing process.
Monnica:And so it's like, that makes sense for a moment, and that's why sometimes a break is needed to let that calm down, but then you gotta come back to it so that you can connect.
Brad:Protection feels safer than being with it, being present with it.
Monnica:Sure.
Brad:Right? It's easier to throw up those walls and build the walls than to build the trust, But the walls aren't allowing us to heal.
Monnica:Sure. And it's not a single conversation. It's a series of courageous returns to it. Right? You come back to the table again and again, even when it would be easier or more comfortable to shrink back or to walk away.
Brad:Yep. Little by little. Mhmm.
Monnica:We're getting there.
Brad:Yep. So yesterday was a good session. Yep.
Monnica:And then a fun day.
Brad:Right. It was a great day. When we started this process, I think we all were looking for this perfect apology that would be a breakthrough moment, but that wasn't the case. That wasn't that is not what is probably gonna happen in any relationship where there's damage like that whenever there needs to be repair. So it was it was awkwardness.
Brad:These awkward pauses, missed attempts, trying and going, oops. I said that wrong.
Monnica:Yeah. Or That was that was that was hurtful. Let me try again. Yeah. Or or that was that's not what I meant to say.
Monnica:That's not yeah. You just being able to go, I got that wrong. Can I try again?
Brad:Right. And even that took practice. Sure. Because it's again, you you try. I I remember there was a moment whenever the therapist was like, okay, I wanna try something.
Brad:And she was so cute because she's like
Monnica:I don't know how she feel about you saying this is cute, she's cute, but yeah, she just didn't It know what was
Brad:was cute that she was like, I have these tools and I think you all are, this is, this would be a great exercise and it's like we had something to Yeah, talk
Monnica:she's like, let's try it. You guys have something we could use to try this with? And we're like, yeah, actually. And then she's like, oh, shit. You sure do.
Brad:Yeah. So it's messy. Yeah. We're human, but the safety isn't about avoiding the pain. It's knowing that the people that are in the relationship that you're in this work with, they're not gonna leave when things fall apart.
Brad:Yeah. When things look like they're gonna fall apart.
Monnica:Yeah. And that that's true in families, in teams, in leadership. The real work begins when we can stay in the room. You know, stay open, stay honest, still willing to connect, or commit to coming back after a break if that's what's needed.
Brad:Yeah. So if reactivity protects and repair connects, then I think the the key is awareness.
Monnica:Sure.
Brad:That is what's bridging the the that chasm as we talked about between the two. And that's where I think going back to John and Julie Gottman's work that has been brought into our session, it's kind of inspired us to be able to understand repair a little bit more and to know that this is not just about this relationship, but it's pretty common in in any relationship.
Monnica:Yeah. I mean, that's what we're we've realized and been realizing over the work that we do for quite some time now, but especially in coaching and leadership, but those same principles apply everywhere. In families, in teams, even in boardrooms, maybe especially in boardrooms, the stakes are high, pressure's high, timelines could be tight, are scared, defensive, egotistical, all those things come into play. And awareness is really important, as you said, because if you're not aware of, you know, your nervous system maybe having you in that sympathetic nervous system state where you're just, you know, feeling threatened and therefore not really thinking, you're just reacting, you can make some really consequential choices in that moment. And I've seen people do it well, and I've seen people really cause pain.
Brad:Have you ever been in one of situations?
Monnica:No, I have been in some of those situations. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars at stake because of things didn't always go well. But anyway, yeah, I've seen it in play, and maybe it's important to say that not every relationship needs the same kind of repair.
Brad:Yeah. I can vouch for that. I know that I was in a recent business relationship in which the repair wasn't this kind of repair wasn't what was called for. No. There were boundaries
Monnica:in Healthy boundaries were what were required in that relationship.
Brad:The goal is not to force reconnection. No. It is, the repair is to maybe to remove the resentment from the situation so that your self personally or myself personally, I can move past it. And then be able to understand that really this is just a boundary issue right now.
Monnica:Sure. And redrawing those is good for everybody. And some some relationships deserve your full bandwidth or a good chunk of it, and others might just need that boundary. And it doesn't always mean reconciliation of the relationship. Sometimes it's just finding peace or even resolution.
Monnica:Like, sometimes people, you know, people are in your life for a season, and that season is over. That's certainly true in business sometimes. Even if closeness isn't possible, though, there can still be repair and peace can be found. Even sometimes the person's not alive anymore that you need to find resolution for your relationship with, And that's an inner work that, you know, it might just be you and your therapist talking about that relationship. I know a lot of people go through that with parents who aren't alive yet or aren't accessible anymore.
Brad:Yeah. Think as we're talking about it and reflecting on it, there's probably a few relationships that they they kind of fall in a spectrum of repair and what that looks like. They're it's not all the same.
Monnica:Oh, of course. And, you know, the goal isn't to force connection. It's to remove resentment that keeps you from being free, as you mentioned. And so in some relationships, repair might look like rebuilding, in others it's just releasing. But either way, it's movement, and that's what matters.
Monnica:And and, you know, only you can answer that for yourself. But we're in the frame. So that's why I just believe everybody, no matter how good they become at their craft, they always need a coach. In this case, we're not talking about coaching, we're talking about therapy because, you know, the four of us in this family therapy we're talking about, we're each in the frame and don't have this perspective and too defensive to understand each other's. So we needed someone who was outside the frame to come and be there.
Monnica:And what I love about how she started us out, she said, look. I'm not here for any one of you. I'm here for the relationship, and so I'm not going to take sides. I'm here to to walk facilitate a restoration and a rebuilding of this relationship. And our goal wasn't to restore what was, it was to build something new.
Brad:Yeah. I that's I think what I appreciated the most, especially after yesterday's session was realizing seeing the space that was created so that we could take perspective. And even in a moment, there was a moment yesterday where I think that there was it was maybe miscommunicated or something was assumed.
Monnica:Oh, yeah, know what you're talking about.
Brad:It was like, woah, hang on, let's zoom out. Three months ago we weren't able to do that.
Monnica:Yeah.
Brad:We weren't in that moment. We were not able to zoom out and go, woah, woah, woah. This was how I felt. This was this was my perspective at that point. We've had three months and multiple sessions to be able to talk about this stuff in this safe space for me to see your perspective, to see your you know, all these different perspectives and to put it together in this cohesive idea of what the relationship is.
Brad:And so it changed things. Yeah. And so now we have those tools.
Monnica:Well, in that moment when what's being heard isn't what's being said, what's being heard is the interpretation of what's being said that's run through the filter of fear and what I'm afraid you might be saying. And so the ability to catch that in its tracks and say, oh, pause. That's not that's not what I was saying. Let me tell you let me try again. Let me say what I am saying and and the other person to say, okay, let me listen to what you're actually saying and let me not superimpose my interpretation on it and really come with curiosity to try to understand what you're attempting to convey.
Brad:I think that's important. It's that amygdala hijack.
Monnica:Yeah, yeah.
Brad:Because when we were in our defensive modes, it was because we felt threatened. We had
Monnica:And there was good cause for everybody to feel what they were feeling. It's just
Brad:Nobody wants to continue to be hurt.
Monnica:No, and nobody's dismissing how anybody felt. It's just there are other perspectives. Two things can be true at once. And that was a big breakthrough for a lot of us in the room in that context to apply that truth that we know, which is two things can be true at the same time. And just because I don't adopt your perspective doesn't mean I didn't understand it.
Monnica:I have mine, you have yours, but I can take your perspective for a minute and get curious about it. It doesn't mean I have to throw mine away, it just means I can set it to the side for a minute and get curious about what yours is.
Brad:Right, so that curiosity doesn't happen unless we can be aware that we have been triggered and we have entered that fight or flight stage, stimulus
Monnica:Yeah.
Brad:And response, that space that's in between. We talk about this a lot.
Monnica:You can take a breath.
Brad:We work with, but it's like how do you catch yourself in a moment knowing that everything inside you just got hot? And if you understand it, it's you understand that you don't have access to your reasoning.
Monnica:Until you can Until take a breath and calm down for just a minute.
Brad:That's right.
Monnica:Or even just a moment to go, hold on, is this assumption I'm making, could there be a different answer? Or is it even true? Let me, just by engaging that thought, you now have access again, if you can. It can happen actually pretty quickly with some awareness. So maybe the invitation this week is simple.
Monnica:Think about a relationship that's gone quiet or is calling for repair or where the air feels a little heavy.
Brad:Yeah. Take a breath. Don't just try to fix it. You know, just reach out. Maybe it's a text.
Brad:Maybe it's a phone call. But I think the the point is finding the ability to just stay in the room.
Monnica:Yeah. Stick with those difficult emotions. Watch them come. Watch them go. And because repair isn't about getting back to what was necessarily.
Monnica:It's about building what's next.
Brad:I like it. Okay. Okay, that's this week's transmission.
Monnica:Cheers.
Brad:If something we said today sparked a question and there's a topic you want us to talk about, let us know.
Monnica:Yeah, the podcast is really an ongoing conversation, and you can message us on Instagram or YouTube and drop a comment and let us know what's on your mind.
Brad:So your questions and even your stories, you sharing your stories, they're gonna actually help us with the direction of these Yeah. They'll help shape these conversations.
Monnica:And maybe give Jagged Little Pill acoustic version a a spin.
Brad:So whatever it is that needs repair in your world, start small.
Monnica:Stay present. Keep coming back. And like we did, ask for help when you need it.
Brad:So until next time, stay curious, stay connected.
Monnica:And listen to good music.
Brad:Good job, Monica.
Monnica:Good job, Patrick.
Brad:Is that it? That's it. Are we done?
Monnica:I think we're done with that one. Good job.
Brad:Did did it?
Monnica:I think so. I don't know.
Brad:This is weird. I don't know
Monnica:how to stop. I well, we did it, but I don't know if it sucks or if it's good, but it is what it is.