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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Dad Tired podcast. Wanna thank my friends over at Range Leather for sponsoring this episode. You can see here if you're watching on Spotify or on YouTube, I'm actually wearing a range leather hat. Um, I'm a huge fan of theirs. Uh, they have a faith integrated culture.
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Oh man. Uh, yeah, so I, I didn't have like a dad taking me to Promise Keepers when I was young, but my, I remember, I have memories, vivid memories of like taking an rv. Actually, my, my uncle took me in his RV and we go camp out in the arena parking lots and then go to, that's awesome. Uh, promise Keepers, when I was young, did you grow up going to Promise Keepers?
No, my dad went, um, and that, that was really my only kind of knowledge of it was like, you know, when I was seven or eight. He went to Atlanta for a meeting in the dome. And then, uh, you know, a couple of years ago when I started really getting involved on social media, like preaching, uh, I saw that they had an account that was following my page and I'm like, is this the same promise keepers?
And sure enough, you know, they were still gathering, uh, they had just done a meeting in 2021 with over 30,000 guys in Dallas. So I was like, whoa, you know, this is still a thing. And you know, I kind of. Ended up leading to where we're at now. Uh, well first, before we get too far in the conversation, I just want to acknowledge, uh, how we're both dads.
We both just talked about how we got to have some coffee with our wives and then be with the kids. Uh, and I hear a lawnmower in the background. Like I said, we're in very much too loud. Yeah, we're in very much dad mode. So for the listeners listening, if you hear kids screaming and, uh, landscapers going, like, we're just very much in, uh, this is real life.
Uh, how did you go from. Uh, seeing that they were following your account to now you're the CEO of the organization. That's a pretty big jump. Yeah. Wasn't part of the plan. Um, so I reached out to them when I saw that they were following me and I was like, Hey, I love Promise Keepers. You know, I have these memories when I was a kid of my dad and talking about it and seen the videos, and I said, I'd love to make some content for you guys and.
You know, 'cause I was, I was traveling and preaching, but I was also really active on social media with my podcasts and all these things. YouTube videos, Instagram. And so they were like, Hey, that'd be great. And so I started making like devotionals and, um, videos for men, you know, on their app. And during that time I formed a relationship with Ken Harrison.
Um, you know, and really over the next two and a half years, our, uh, our relationship would grow and. You know, ultimately I think he would end up asking me if I wanted to be the CEO, which was totally out of left field to me, but I guess he'd been thinking about it for some time. Um, bro, it sounds like the leaf blower is like in your house.
Like, I know, I'm gonna, my wife's closing the window. That's okay. I just want, I love my, my buddy who does our landscaping, but that's okay. Right before we hear, I was saying that the same thing happens to me every time I'm about to start recording a podcast. I just feel like all the chaos. I know, uh, it happens hopefully.
Um, but okay, so you, you went from like doing stuff online, promise keepers following you became friends with Ken, who's been on our show a few times. Awesome. Um, and you guys both have law enforcement background, so you, you're former vet and Yeah. And enforcement. I was in the army. Okay. And then we were both cops after that.
So I mean, we kind of just like, you know, we hit it off really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. We, we'd hang out. I lived in, uh, in McKinney, Texas, near Dallas at the time. Okay. So whenever he'd be in Dallas for work, you know, we'd meet up and um, we would talk and, you know, I was gonna speak at the next event that they had, which, you know, that's a whole story of why those kept falling through.
Mm. And, uh, just because of the culture that we're in. But, but really, we just formed this great relationship. We had so many similar. You know, views about how we should reach men and the vision for promise keepers. And, and so it was at the Brooklyn event that we did in December or, or late November of last year.
Um, you know, I sat in on a board meeting and I was kind of just given some opinions based on my view from the outside. Mm-hmm. And I think that might've been the moment where he was like, Hey, I think this guy has. You know, a grasp on what we're doing and where we should be heading. Yeah. So it was a, it was a huge honor, but I literally was sitting on my couch with my oldest son, who's almost three, and we were just like watching a movie or something and Ken calls me and like five minutes into the conversation he's like, you know, I think you should be the new CEO of Promise Keepers.
And I'm like, what? You know, I'm not ready for that. Yeah. Uh, so, and you were in law enforcement like pretty recently though, right? Yeah, I left in 2021. Okay. Wow. So, uh, first of all, bro, just thank you for first your service to the country and to your local community. Man, I, we, we, uh, we're big supporters of law enforcement and, and vets, um, thank you.
We just, we really are, are fans of the men and women who are sacrificing and laying their lives down, the families that sacrifice in order to keep us safe. So thank you for that. Do you miss it? Do you miss any of the law enforcement side or not really military side? No. You know, the first few years were really fun.
Um, and then the last few years, the last two and a half years, really, it just got so political that like, yeah, it, it was hard to do our job. And so that kind of, it, it, it made it difficult to enjoy as much. Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that from a lot of my, especially I was up, uh, south of Seattle, Washington, so it was very kind of anti-police to be honest there.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, I was testifying on a murder trial. And I'm supposed to be offering like my testimony of what I saw, what I did, and I was very much on trial, uh, from the prosecutors who were trying to hang up me for looking for something that I did wrong or how I discriminated or something.
And I'm like, dude, I'm here trying to testify about a murder that we, right, right. You know, solved. And the guy we arrested and they're like trying to point out biases or something and I'm just like, dude, this is. The, the environment politically and culturally for police. I'll say anyone who's still doing that job right now, especially in a very, you know, kind of more liberal state like Washington.
I mean, my hat's off to, to all those guys. Yeah, it's not easy. Yeah, I came from, uh, we just moved from Portland, Oregon, so I, yeah, I understand the environment. Uh, we were there for 13 years. My wife's born and raised there. Um, when, when COVID happened and like all the rights this happened in Seattle. I mean, Portland and Seattle are very similar.
Like they're, yeah. They kind of feed off each other's vibe. Yep. Um. But when all this stuff was happening in Portland, downtown, like police just basically left and, and it was a free for all, which was very similar to what was happening in Seattle. Um, I went down there, this was right. We had already like made plans to move here and stuff.
We were just wrapping up there, but I'm like, this is like, I. Historical stuff happen. This is crazy stuff happening. Like yeah, there's basically zero police presence, uhhuh, it's anarchy down there. So I just, I strapped a GoPro to my chest and I took my little electric bike and I just rode all through downtown.
My wife's like, please don't die tonight. I'm like, this is, I know, but I just drove all through that, bro. I sometimes I'll go back through that footage and just be like, that, that's in, it feels third world to like country. We were, we were there like. Right when you, I mean, I was a cop during the whole Chaz Chop thing, if you remember that.
Where? What was that? Yeah, what was that? So basically people took over, I think it was in 2020, people took over like a six square block area, including a police station, and they like boarded it up. They burned stuff down. They declared it as not us territory. Yeah. And so, I mean, it was saved. I'm like, this is happening in Seattle, you know?
Yeah. And my, my, uh, city was like 10 miles south of there, so we, we felt a lot of that. But I mean, yeah, it's, I agree. It was just, I absolutely insane. But I was preaching on the street and on social media during that time as well. So it was like a cop by day, a preacher or a cop by night, preacher by day.
And it just showed me even more like, dude, we need spiritual answers to this stuff. Yes, the government's not gonna get it done. No saviors coming into the White House. I mean, we can have better presidents than, than worse ones, but at the end of the day, it's a heart issue. And there's only one answer for that.
Yeah. How did you like, okay, you said cop by day, preacher by night. Like what? Flip those? Yeah. Uh, yeah. Okay. But how did you. How did you, did you feel like a pool to ministry even when you were in military and law enforcement? When did that start? Yeah, so I grew up in the church, um, but I lived like everybody else.
I mean, mm-hmm. I, I, you know, I was a worship drummer for a mega church, and, uh, I would be, you know, at rehearsal and all this stuff, multiple days a week serving. But then the other days of the week, I was partying just like everybody else, you know? That's what we were all doing. And I was in the military at this time, still up in Washington.
And I remember in 2016, in January, the Lord, he spoke to me and I was sitting on my bed and he said, you've never lived for me a day in your life. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, man, I just got so convicted instantly. Can I, I wanna pause there for a second 'cause I think this is really important for all the guys listening.
What was happening in your life? Circumstantially that you feel like God just, was there anything happening or were, I mean, were you just laying in bed? What did it look like for you to feel like God just kinda spoke this word to you? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, kind of the buildup of this was just the, the turmoil of, you know, loss from, I just got back from Afghanistan not too long before that.
Lost, uh, I had lost two soldiers prior to deploying. One who died while he was on, on his combat rotation. And another one of my soldiers killed himself six weeks later. So we did two funerals in two months. Geez. And then I deployed, came back, was dealing with all that. I was also partying and you know, getting drunk a lot and just, I just felt like off, you know?
And it sounds funny, like to anyone who's walking with the Lord, you'd be like, dude, you need Jesus. But to someone who grew up in the church and like I was doing all of the stuff, you know, I was attending, I was worshiping, I was volunteering, I was pouring myself out, but I had no relationship with Christ and I was still relying on like, worldly stuff to, to try to make me feel better.
And so that culminated in this, this moment where like. You know, basically someone from my church called me out and said, Hey, you know, I don't even think you're a real Christian. Wow. I don't, you're not a very good person, actually. Wow. And uh, that's a sense. Was that like a, like that was like a friend a like a, I thought it was a date I thought on a date, you know, and I write about this in my book, but, you know, I was going out to dinner with this girl and, you know, I'm thinking, you know, cool.
Like, this is a girl from my church. She seems nice and she basically confronts me at the dinner and is like. Hey, you know, you think you're this awesome paratrooper and this wrestling coach and all these other things that you do, you're not, you know? Wow. And I don't even know if you're really a Christian.
And no one had ever talked to me like that. And it, and it really like opened my eyes by your own dinner. Yeah. But yeah, I know to look inward and, uh, so anyways, I got home and I'm sitting on my bed. And I have a thought. So if anyone's like, well, did you hear an audible voice or whatever? No, but I had a thought that was directed at me and the thought was, Shane, you have never lived for me one day in your life.
And I didn't need to like try to figure out who that was that was talking. Right. You know, I knew immediately. Wow. And I just had this moment of repentance where I was, I was instantly convicted of sin. It's like I could see my whole life in the span of a minute. Where every decision I had made, even, even good decisions.
Lord, I want to join the military, help me do it. You know, I want to go to this college, help me do it. I wanna buy this house, help me do it. It was always for me. Mm-hmm. And so the Lord's like, you've never done anything for me. Like it's always been you and you're using me to get there. Wow. And I was so, I just wept and I said, Lord, I don't even, I hate my life right now.
You know? I was, I was in a place where I didn't wanna live anymore, to be honest. Wow. And, um, I said, I give you my life. And I, I, I, I didn't have anyone lead me in a prayer. I didn't, you know, get dunked in a baptismal, which I think all that stuff is great. But I had a real encounter with God on my bed. And after that, I can say for the last almost nine years, I've never been the same.
Mm. And so I instantly, I, I think within the week I started preaching on the street and on Facebook. 'cause I just felt like. All those seeds that were sown, all the, all the Bible that I had read over my life, the sermons I had heard, it's like they came to life. Yep. And now I can't help but share. And so that's what really led me to like start preaching on the street.
And, and then, you know, when COVID hit, we were locked down. So I started preaching on TikTok 'cause God asked me to, even though I didn't want to. And that just everything blew up from there. But I mean, it was, uh. It was a very radical encounter. Hmm. We have similar stories, man. Uh, my, I was dating my wife at the time and I was a worship pastor and we were on a date I remember so vividly.
And she said almost the same thing. Like she said, are you, are you a Christian because you love Jesus? Are you a Christian? 'cause you get paid to be. Wow. And I was like, dude, like go home. Like who are you? You know? Yeah. I was so upset, but it was very similar and that led to me going back to my little studio apartment and God just re I, I felt like it was all the, um, all my sins were like brought right into, in front of my face.
It was the first time I kind of felt the weight of my sin. Right. I wasn't like justifying it or making excuses. I felt the weight of it. And then I, I ended up writing down like as much shameful stuff as I could on a, on this notebook. And I'm just like bawling. 'cause I'm just like, I, I'm seeing all my sin, like on paper.
Yeah. And then I felt like the, the grace of God show up. And same thing, dude, I was just on my face like weeping. Like, man, God can forgive this if it can fit on a piece of paper. Like God can forgive this and that. I had been a pastor, I had been in church stuff my whole life, but that's really where I feel like God radically.
Changed my heart. So it's, it's interesting. You and I have very similar story. I ended up marrying that girl. That's awesome. Yeah. And she's still, yeah, well she still calls me out on, on my stuff, which is a gift. Um, what do you pre when you're on the, on the streets, that's such an interesting environment. I feel like the Lord has given me a heart for evangelism too.
I love talking to people about Jesus and like. Uber cars and on the airplane stuff. Yeah. Um, I'm always, I like long conversations. Obviously the podcast, you know, this is conducive for these kind of things. What do you talk, how are you approaching people on the streets? Like what are you saying? How are you starting conversations?
Yeah. You know, uh, for me it's, it wasn't like corner street, corner evangelism necessarily. Okay. Um, it was, it was like walking around. Public areas, the parks. Yeah. You know, college campuses, uh, in my city, grocery stores and just, you know, talking to people, um, I was really going after like words of knowledge and stuff like that.
And so, you know, what do you mean by that? So, you know, uh, for instance, uh, when Jesus was at the well with a woman and he says, you know. The, the guy that you're with is not your husband. You've actually had five husbands and he starts to like, read her mail, basically. Right. And we see this, you know, Jesus talking to the Pharisees and he says, why in your heart are you saying these things?
Right? So, so if you're listening a word of knowledge, basically the Lord revealing something to you that you wouldn't otherwise know, right? And so I was really just, I, I was reading through the gospels at this time and I'm like, Lord, you taught the disciples this. I'm a, I'm a military officer. Like I would teach my guys stuff and want them to teach, you know, and I just feel like this is for today.
And so I would be walking around and I would just be constantly trying to hear God speak. Wow. And I remember one time I. You know, and I got it wrong a lot. Um, or maybe I was being tested, I don't know. Mm-hmm. But there was, there was a time where, uh, just one testimony was awesome. I was walking through the park and I just said, Lord, you know, I wanna, I want to meet someone today that needs to hear you, I, and all these things.
And I walk by this guy and I look at him and I'm instantly filled with anxiety. Like my heart starts racing. I feel like I can't think straight. And I'm a pretty self-aware person, so I'm like. Hey, I feel like my life's pretty great, you know right now. Yeah. That maybe this is for this guy. And so I just walked over to him.
He was sitting on a bench by himself and I said, Hey man, you know, I'm not trying to be weird, but like, are you struggling with anxiety like right now? Mm-hmm. And he's like, yeah, I am. Like, how did you know that? And I said, dude, I was praying and when I looked at you I felt anxious. And I said, I feel like God wants to just speak to your heart right now.
And I began to have thoughts. And the thoughts were like, uh, he's about to get laid off. Um, he doesn't know what he's gonna do after that. He is got a relational issue. And so I just said these things. I said, look, this is gonna sound crazy, but like, are you facing a layoff at work? And you know, you've got this.
And he's like, he's crying now. And he's like, how do you know this? I said, Jesus is a, is real. And he's speaking to me right now. Wow. And I said, let's just pray. And I began to pray and not just like, Lord, let him feel peace. You know, that's a sensual thing. I'm like, Lord, encourage him that you're with him.
You're never gonna leave him. You know? Mm-hmm. Comfort is in you. Peace is in you. And it's, it was crazy to me 'cause I never grew up even believing any of this stuff or knowing about it. I, I stumbled upon it through reading the Bible and then through, you know, some friends that I had, um, who also, you know, were kind of walking in this.
And so at the end of that prayer, I mean it was just incredible to see this guy's face. He looked different and he's like, I feel peace in my heart. And I said, look, man, the this peace isn't just because some guy came and prayed for you. God's real Jesus is real. He wants to know, you know, I began to evangelize.
And I would do the same thing, praying for sick people, praying for people with braces like on their limbs or people in wheelchairs. I mean, I, dude, I just prayed for everybody. Mm-hmm. And I can tell you I've prayed for thousands and thousands of people and I haven't seen everybody healed and I haven't got all the words right, but I've seen enough to, to that I've been rocked and I can never stop.
And so that was really my kind of approach to evangelism. There would be times when the Lord would say, Hey. I want you to go in the middle of that college campus and just start talking about my love for two minutes. Wow. And so I would just be like, Hey everyone. And I would, you know, I would share a quick 62nd testimony and then invite anyone who wanted to, you know, encounter God or whatever to come talk to me or pray with me.
But I mean, it was a, I haven't done that in a while, but that was about, yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna ask, are you still doing any of that kind of stuff? Yeah. You know, my buddy's a pastor up in New York City. Okay. And so during the summers they do outdoor services on Sundays, which I think is awesome. Like they just had one in, in the subway.
Hmm. Um, and so last year I went up and preached in Central Park. Wow. And it was like a 15 minute evangelistic message. I. And, um, it was really cool because I hadn't, you know, done it in a while. Yeah. But the Lord really was, you know, he'll lead you. The Bible says if you don't know what to say, you open your mouth, he'll fill it.
Yeah. Especially the word is in your heart, he'll pull it out. And so I feel like I was really preaching to, to try to cut the hearts of people that think that they don't need God and, you know. Mm-hmm. So, I, I said things that I've never said. I said like, you know, you feel like you're free without God. But why do you do things you hate in secret?
Wow. Because you know that people struggle with that. Right. And, and I would say these things and I would be like, where is this coming from? You know? Wow. And, um, it was just, uh, it was such a fun time. So I still have a heart for evangelism, but I'm, I feel like I'm more in the teaching place now. How about you?
I, yeah. I, I, uh, one thing we've talked about on this podcast before is when Jesus says, like. I'm not leaving you as orphans. When he is telling his disciples he's getting ready to be crucified and leave, and you know, they're kind of freaking out. He's foreshadowing his death and his resurrection, he'll be gone.
But he's saying, I'm not gonna leave you as orphans. I'll put my spirit in you. And so we've talked about on this podcast, like wherever you show up, Jesus shows up. The spirit of God shows up. What I've noticed is the only time, the only differentiating factor of having those kind of moments that you had with that guy on the bench and not is truly for me, just being aware like, oh, Jesus is like his spirit is in me.
Yeah. And he's actively pursuing. People all around me. Yep. And he will, I mean, the scriptures say if we don't worship the rocks and trees would cry. Like he can use whatever he wants to reach whomever that God could have used a blade of grass uhhuh with for that guy on the bench. But he said, okay, you want to be invited into this.
Like as sometimes I think of it as like I'm working on something in the garage and my son comes in and says, can dad can I help? I didn't. I don't need him. You know, but I, I sure love when he wants to join me. Like, I really, I really enjoy it. And um, and so sometimes I feel like God is just like I'm working all the time.
Like God is not ever taken a day off. Like he's always working and sometimes our attitude is, uh, can I join you, God? And which is essentially what you were doing in the park. Like, God, can I join you in this? He's like, okay, you wanna join me? Like, let's go talk to this guy on the bench, you know? Yeah. It's so cool.
And, and it's like, dude, I'm not awesome. You know Right. That, that disqualifies, if you read the Bible, you should never feel awesome about yourself. Totally. Because God will use a donkey. Totally. You know? Yeah. Um, and so it's like anyone who feels like you have to be this or that, that's dude. No. You just have to be willing and humble.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the Lord, he, he will use that, you know? And um, that's what I found was so amazing is. You know, I was, I would, I would constantly think, man, Lord, you just used me to reach this person. And four months ago I was getting wasted and doing all this crazy stuff. Mm. You know, calling myself a Christian.
Wow. Like, you're amazing. You know, I don't deserve any of this. Totally. So I think just staying grounded Yeah. Is huge. Because I began to see crazier and crazier things. I mean, I, I saw a girl get healed out of a wheelchair and Wow. And she had epilepsy. And she went and got, um, two different brain scans over the course of a year, and all epilepsy had left her brain and she was able to get a driver's license and now she has a job and like she has a normal life.
Wow. And I was just rocked by that because again, I never grew up hearing about that, believing in it. You know, I believe that God could do anything, but like, I mean, someone's gonna get outta a wheelchair. Like, come on. Right, right. Until someone's in a wheelchair and said, Hey, will you pray for me? And I just felt like the Lord's like.
Well, do you believe that I can do it or not? And I'm like, I believe you can do it. I can't do it. Yeah. So I just prayed for her and you know, so it's like you see enough stuff like that and the last thing you want to do is try to take credit for it or try to feel awesome. Totally. You're just, you're just blown away.
And so it's the same thing when I got offered this position at Promise Keepers, it's not 'cause I'm awesome and I tried to get myself here and I have the right resume. I just am like, mm-hmm. Okay, Lord, you know you want to use me in this way, like let's go for a ride. You know? I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm along for it.
Yeah, I love that man. I love your humble posture. 'cause again, I think you're right. Like if it wasn't you praying for that, like I. It was, it was either you or the rock next to, to her, you know, uh, God will use whatever he wants. I, I would just encourage, like any guy who's listening to this podcast right now, um, if you are a believer and the spirit of God is in you as a believer, like I would encourage you just to view I.
Challenge yourself to say, if you show up into a room today, Jesus is showing up in that room. The spirit of God is showing up in that room. Whether you're going to the grocery store or getting your oil changed, or you're sitting in front of a computer or you're in the break room, wherever you're at, Jesus is His spirit is in you and with you.
Amen. And so is there somewhere or someone specifically that he wants to talk to, uh, reach, encourage, bless. Uh, convict whatever his spirit would want to do through you. And, uh, man, I just think if, if a bunch of guys hearing this today would take to believe that like God is in me, right? Um, I bet you we could hear dozens of these kind of stories, um, you know, from guys who just would step out in faith and, and, and do and do some of the things that you were talking about.
Well, and it, it's not always crazy stuff. I mean, you know, here here's a little maybe litmus test for the guys listening. You know, have you ever, uh, seen a piece of trash on the ground and, and you had a thought, Hey, go pick that up. Or you ever been in a, in a line at a coffee shop and had a thought, you know, you should pay for the person behind you.
Yeah. It's not your good idea. Right. You know, I believe it's the Lord. And if we can listen and step out in faith in those, you know, littler moments. Then I believe, you know, it's the biblical principle of like, if I can trust you with a little, then I can trust you with much. And so everyone wants to go.
You know, I say everyone, everyone in my community who loves to pray for people, they want to go pray for the cancer, they want to go pray for the, the big stuff. They want to see a mighty miracle. But I will tell you that the, the, the amount of people that want to do the little stuff. Is a lot smaller.
Mm-hmm. And, um, that's where I see men of integrity. Yeah. And that's where I see a humble heart is, is people who don't forget about the one, don't, don't forget about the little things that don't get noticed. Yep. Um, and so I, I would say that I, I tried my best to spend. My whole, my whole last nine years.
But really those first few years I was like, Lord, I just want to obey the little things that you're asking me to do. Yeah. And, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in a, in an elevated position, I guess you could say. Yeah. And that's just how it works. I mean, yeah. That's incredible. Hey guys, hope you're enjoying today's episode so far.
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Um, and that's gonna give you 25% off site-wide. If you go to bond charge.com and start your wellness journey, you'll start to feel better. Today. It is funny, man, I, there's, this was probably like six years ago. Um, I, we were living in this town home and we, I would go out to take the trash, you know, everyone's got like a shared dumpster.
Yeah. And, uh, I'd go out to take the trash and it, the, the, around the dumpster was just a, a disaster. People just throw in their trash everywhere around the dumpster. And so I threw my trash away in the dumpster and I was gonna go walk back. And I had that exact thought that you were just saying like, pick up the, pick up the trash around this dumpster.
And specifically it was, if I can be obedient in these small little things. Um, I'm practicing obedience for the bigger things. So bro, I just, like, I was throwing away the trash and I was praying like, God, um, I want to be obedient in everything, like even the small things. And so I, dude, I completely agree with you.
That's good. And to take it a step further, it's not, I hope someone looks out the window and sees me doing this Oh, no. So that I can testify about you. That it's not even that. It's at its simplest form. It's what you said. I wanna be obedient. Yes. I don't look, if someone sees and comes out and says, dude, why are you picking all that up?
Oh, I'm a Christian. God asked me to do it. Oh, cool. You know, maybe now I can minister, but I'm not even doing it for that. Totally. I want to be obedient regardless of who sees. Totally. And, and, and so when people ask me like, man, how are you so bold? You know, how do you do this or that? Or how do you open air preach?
Or how do you, how do you make these videos on social media and get all this hate? I'm like, because I, I can't pray for you to have this boldness, you know? Yeah. Like I believe in impartation and God giving you a gift of faith and all this stuff, but at the end of the day, the way that you become bold is that you've just obeyed him for so long.
Yes. That whatever he asks you to do, you're just like, okay, yes, I'm not comfortable all the time. Yes. But what am I gonna do? Say no. Like once you say, I like to say this. For men listening, get yourself stuck. And here's what I mean by that. I recognized early on in my walk with the Lord that, you know, it's not in our nature to want to, to let someone down, especially as men.
Mm. And so for me, and not that I'm gonna let God down necessarily, but for me, I recognized after a couple of times of saying yes to God, the thought of then saying, no. It was like off the table. Mm-hmm. I just couldn't do it because I knew I would be miserable, you know? Yeah. I would be, I would wish that I had said yes, even if it was hard.
And so you get yourself stuck. Go, go say yes to God for a couple of things. Yes. Go say yes. When he ask you to pick that trash up, say yes. When he asks you to pay for the person behind you, say yes when he, whatever it is, and I'm telling you after a couple of times of doing that. It just becomes a lifestyle.
Yeah. Where you're just obeying God and then you'll find yourself being asked to do more and more things that are usually less and less comfortable. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was doing all this as a cop and you know, it was great because, yeah, I worked in a hard area, very violent. Like someone tried to kill me in 2020, like it was crazy.
Hmm. But my family was covered. I was making over a hundred thousand a year. Hmm. Um, I had a thriving online ministry, and then God asked me to give it up to become a missionary. Mm-hmm. And so it's like, if he had asked me that when I was a month born again, I don't know what I would've said. Right. But because of the years of picking up the trash, speaking to that person, you know, it, it, it was just another Yes.
To give him. Man. Um, and so I think, you know, sometimes people hear these testimonies that you or I have, and they might go, well, I'm not ready to do that. Well, you might not be, but start small. Start just saying yes to God. We, I, I, we have this thing called Garage Group where we meet together, me and my buddies meet together in a garage and we're just like confessing and pray for each other and study the scriptures.
And we were stu we were studying through the, the Bible and we were talk, we were going through Abraham and Abraham. God promising Abraham Abraham at the time. You're gonna have a son and the guy's an old age, you know the story, but the guy's an old age. And so. I mean, quite literally his wife like laughed at God, which God is so savage.
Like if you miss the savage ness of God sometimes like you, you're missing out on a cool part of his character, which is name your son Isaac, which means laughter, which is so, I mean, just so savage, like every time you look at your boy. Yeah. Every time you say his name, you're gonna remember how you laughed at me.
Like, uh, and I'm just gonna prove how awesome I am. Every time you say his name, which, that alone is awesome. But anyway, so God, they had all kinds of doubt. He, Abraham tries to do his own thing and like, maybe, God, maybe I'll take this matter into my own hands and have a son a different way. God proves himself to be faithful.
Well then Isaac grows up and God says, sacrifice his son and your son Isaac. So if, if you had just popped into the Bible. During the Isaac story and you're reading about this dad taking his son up to sacrifice him and he's gonna do it. Yeah. Like he's gonna, he's gonna do it. Um, you read that and you're like, how in the world any of us dads would be like.
How do you do that? How do you as a dad lay your son out in the altar ready to sacrifice him to be obedient to God? Well, I think it's because Abraham, Abram, and eventually Abraham, he had a track record of like, God has done things in my life that didn't make sense and like, I don't really know, like I wasn't even supposed to have a kid.
I'm in like, like a hundred years old. I wasn't even supposed to have a kid. Yeah. Yeah. And so how, I don't know how I had a kid and yet God did, did it. I'm not, I'm certainly not gonna laugh at him again because he proved me wrong that time. And so now he's calling me to have a son. And I truly believe that Abraham, Abraham thought like, I don't know how this is gonna work, but God, I.
I, I, I've practiced obedience. Yeah. And so this seems crazy to me. I, I think that Abraham probably thought even if I sacrifice him, God's gonna do something. 'cause he said he is gonna bless the whole world through this boy. So I don't know if he's gonna raise him from the dead. I don't know what he is making.
He's gonna make him like knife proof or whatever, like whatever he is gonna do right now, but. God will be faithful. And the only reason he was able to make such a crazy obedient decision in that moment was because he had a track record of saying yes. Amen. Um, and, and so I, if you look at that, if you look at that too, there's two things that stand out to me in that story that, that show that integrity of Abraham, not just to obey, but before he left, he said, we will be back.
Right? And then he said that he knew, just like you said. That God would raise Isaac up again, right? So this wasn't gonna be a done deal. Like he, he knew in his heart that the character and the goodness of God. And so he's like, look, I will carry this out to the point of, you know, executing my own son, because I know that you'll, you'll, you'll make everything right again, you'll raise him up.
I know your heart. You're not gonna call me to savagely murder my son, right? Like, that's not who you are. And so I think, you know, when we look at this. That was a, I I wonder if it was even a difficult decision for him to go up with Isaac If you knew that God's gonna do it right. God's gonna take care of you.
And to say that we will be back. I think that's a missed line. I agree a hundred percent. It's not a casual statement. It's like, dude, and it wasn't a lie. It wasn't a lie. Yeah. It, it wasn't a lie that he was saying to the servants, like, I don't, I don't think he was trying to trick them. No, I agree with you 100%.
I think he knew God's track record. Like whatever happens up here. We're coming back. 'cause God's been, he's faithful to his promises. How many times have you prayed that? One of my strongest prayers has been Lord, because we're fixers, you know? Mm-hmm. We're problem solvers. But one of my strongest prayers is, Lord, I have no idea what is gonna happen.
Yeah. No idea what's happening. But I know that you're good. Yep. And I know that you're gonna work this out and so I trust you. Yep. And I think a lot of guys, I didn't even know I could pray that way for so long. You know, I would always think I, I've gotta pray for the right outcome or whatever. And I felt such a freedom when I would just pray and say, Lord, I'm not in control.
You are. I don't know how this is gonna work out, but I know it's gonna work out. Yeah. And, and I'd drop all expectations. You know, and I think that's how we can take little steps to become like Abraham was because Yeah. I mean, dude, I, I hope I have half the integrity and faith in God that that guy did, because Yeah.
You know, the thought of taking our boys or our, you, you have a, you have a I have a boy, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's. It's unthinkable. It's unimaginable. Yeah. But I, um, I, yeah. And I just want to really hit the point for any guy listening, like the, it started, God didn't start with, um, I'm gonna have you have a son and then I'm gonna have you sacrifice him.
Like he, it was the buildup to obedience. It was the buildup to trust me, even when things seem crazy or impossible. And I think that's what we're talking about. Like when God calls you to pay for the person behind you or to have a, a. Bold conversation with your coworker, or a hard conversation with a friend or wi your wife.
Um, it's trusting him when it feels impossible because he is likely prepping your heart. And like it's the, it's the sanctification process. Process. It's the, um, he's, it's him completing the work that he started in you. Amen. And the things that he's gonna call you to 10 years from now are gonna be probably bigger.
Um, and, and it's gonna be a practice of this daily grind of obedience from picking up the trash to confessing sin, to talking to a neighbor, like whatever it is. So anyway, I just really want guys to hear that like God is calling us to faithfulness and he's, and he, he's gonna keep, I mean, even his disciples, he just kept calling him to mour and more and more.
Yeah, but it's that, that's that, it's that continued obedience in the small things. And I, I love too, the, the tenderness of Abraham. I don't know if we think about it from this aspect, but. A lot of times we might associate these bold leaders in, in the faith with being this kind of, you know, resilient person of tenacity and all these things.
And they might be, but we lose the tender side. And if you remember, Abraham was pleading with God not to fireball, you know, um, Sodom and Gomorrah, he's like, right, there's just a few righteous, you know, he kept talking him down. Right, and I think that that is a balance we desperately need as men as well, is to be strong, bold, courageous leaders.
I, you know, I wanted to say fearless, but I don't want it to be interpreted the wrong way, you know? Mm-hmm. The Bible teaches us to not be afraid in any way of our adversaries, which is proof to them of their destruction and us our salvation and God. And so I'm not afraid of the world because I fear God.
Right? Wow. Yeah. And so as I lead in a bold way, it could come off as harsh to, to people who don't want to hear it. I mean, I've been called that, I'm sure you've been called that on some topics. Yeah. You've taken a stance on. But there's this tender side also of like, Lord, preserve the city. You know, if there's even a couple of righteous, like I don't wanna see massive destruction happen on this scale.
And, uh, and I think as men, it's okay for us to balance being strong and being tender. Um, and I think what we've seen in culture right now is a, a perverted mix of tenderness. Yeah. That's fallen under this kind of guise of, um, acceptance, inclusion, affirmation, all these things. Yeah. And it's like God is tender towards people but not sin.
That's right. So that's the balance. We've gotta walk in and, um, you know, the more you obey God, the more you listen to his voice, you'll know what to say in those hard moments and your heart won't get hardened because, you know, the last thing I'll say is when I was in the military, I led from a very different place.
Like, I cared for my men, but I, I could get hardened to things and just keep driving on. That was kind of the motto, you know, just press on. Mm-hmm. And, um, as Christians, I'm not, I'm not called as a Christian to just harden myself for the sake of pressing on, you know? Yeah. Actually, the harder thing to do is to stay tender Yeah.
In a world that's trying to harden you. And, um, so, you know, what have you thought about that? I mean, it, it's, it's been easy over the last four years for some of these guys listening probably to have their hearts hardened. Totally. How have you stayed tender, you know, over these last few years? I love what you're saying.
'cause it's the, it's the, um, it's the lion and the lamb part of God. It's the, you know, John level, if you're familiar with him, it's the warrior poet. You know, it's that, that it's the lover and the fighter, you know, it's the it which he wrote it. Um. He wrote a great book recently. I highly recommend any guy go pick that up.
I think it's called The Warrior Way or something. Uh, I always forget titles, but it was, it was a great book. Um, but I think you're right, man. Like I, you can watch the news, you can kind of get caught up in culture and it just becomes this. So like, I'm just angry at everybody. And I think what you're saying is like continuing to have that heart like, dude, I like Abraham.
I don't wanna see you destroyed. And there is such, there is. Um, and I feel I'm guilty of this like. You, you start to get that feeling of, I kind of do wanna see you get destroyed. You're so against like everything. I believe you're against my family, you're against my God. Um, and, and eventually I do wanna stand for truth.
I do want to be a strong man of God that's bold and is fearless towards my enemy enemies. But also I wanna do all of that. I want the foundation of all of that to be I really love you and I really want you to come to know the truth of God. That's a hard balance, bro. Um, yeah, it definitely is. And I think I was trying to stay muted for as long as possible.
I'm telling you, this is the longest landscaping job I've ever had, so I apologize. You're just doing circles around your room here. Seriously. Testing out a new leaf blower. Um, you know, I, I, I've said, I said this, um, you know, I've, I'm an equal opportunity offender. Um, you know, I don't, I don't pick a side.
Yeah. Uh, you know, I said this as an evangelist. I heard it from Daniel Kalinda, but a pastor's job is to comfort the disturbed and an evangelist job is to disturb the comfortable. Mm. And um, I was constantly, not for the sake of division or stirring anything up, but I recognized for me, I was not aware of as crazy as it sounds of how off I was until I was confronted.
And it's like once your eyes get opened, right? You know, some are blind, some look away. Yeah, I didn't want to, I was blind. Once my eyes were opened, I was like, I'm not looking away from this. Yeah. And so I say that to say, I would be preaching and I would say, Christians, if you can see someone's face on TV or on your phone, and you go, oh man, I hate that guy.
I said, you don't have God's heart. You've let yourself be hardened because you hate the way someone thinks. And you've, you've lost the, the tenderness for people. Uh, in, in the whole swirl of your hatred for sin, which is justified, right. But the Bible tells us that the tools we've been given are for tearing down strongholds, which are wrong ways of thinking.
Mm-hmm. Our war is not flesh and blood. Our war is against ideas and yeah. Powers in dark places. And, and it sounds like mystical and crazy, but it's real. Like there's a supernatural world at work. And the, the more I can realize that my enemy is unseen. Not seen. Right. The, the easier it is for me to stay tender.
And as a cop, that was super important because I've had my gun out thousands of times over my career. My rifle is out hundreds of times over my career, and I always had to remember, yeah, I have a job to do right now in the natural, it's gonna have natural consequences, but this person is not my enemy.
Mm-hmm. Like I have compassion on this person, even if I'm fighting them. Because they're being ruled by an unseen principality or an unseen way of thinking. Yeah. And so that's what kept my heart tender. If I had to fight someone, that's what keeps you from throwing that extra punch or whatever. Yeah. You know, and, and, and so when I see videos of cops missing it, I'm like, well, I know exactly your policing out of your flesh.
Mm-hmm. And I don't know how anyone could ever do that. Wow. Because if you're not, if you're not submitted to the spirit of God. Cops are humans just like anybody else. And I'm telling you, when you're being defied or you're being challenged or you're being, or, or someone hits you, it's your flesh wants to rise up and respond.
Right. But it takes a, a, a cool level head. And I, I really believe some of the best cops I serve with were Christians who were able to be a thermostat, not a thermometer. Right. You know? And so. I think for guys listening, if you find yourself getting riled up by things you see on social media, I'd say first maybe take a break, but like second, what's the root of that?
You know, like there's people in our government and whatever that I absolutely despise the way that they think, right? Things that they do because they affect our community. They're trying to go after our kids, but I don't have hatred for a person. Hmm. Because that person, Jesus said was worth his life.
Wow. And so that makes them of equal value as me. Hmm. And so, you know, it's this, uh, it's this tricky place that we've gotta navigate, especially in 2024. That's a good word, man. Maybe in our last minutes here, um, I wrote a book. My, the very first book I ever wrote was a devotional called Stop Behaving. And the premise of the book was.
Um, that God isn't just about your behavior, he's, he's about your heart. Like you can go through all the motions, you can check all the boxes, kind of like what you were describing for yourself. Yeah, you're doing it, but God, but God wanted your heart. He just didn't want your mo. Um, you know, you to behave well.
And I still. Believe in all those things that I wrote. I still believe in the premise that I just gave to you. I wrote that at a time where there was ministry, this was almost a decade ago. A lot of the men's ministry was just pull yourself up. Like, wake up at 4:00 AM do your Bible study. You know, you know.
Yeah. Do the accountability do better? Yeah, and and I was in a dark space personally, like I had been jaded from the church. I was in the middle of what I thought was gonna be a divorce with my wife, and I didn't need to hear like. Man up. Figure it out, dude. I need to just like to hear the gospel. Yeah, like the tenderness of God, really, the grace of God and that when I found the tenderness of God, I.
Um, it really drew my heart back to him and it changed my behavior as a result of my heart being changed. Amen. So, I agree with all of that. Still, I still agree with my thinking 10 years ago, which I don't agree with a lot of what I thought 10 years ago, but I still agree. I still agree with that. Um, but that being said, I do feel like culture has shifted in, in a way.
I wouldn't write a book called Stop Behaving Today. Mainly because I think that we have a lot of men who are kind of being timid Yeah. And need to be called out. Like in some ways you do need to change your behavior, dude. Like stop doing what you're doing. Yeah. Uh, so anyway, I, I wanted to kind of pick your brain about that on that, because I, I think first, bro, I've just really enjoyed our conversation getting to know you.
You're, you're, you're a. It's cool to see a, a strong man who's willing to stand up and be bold and also tender like, bro, we just need so many more. I want, I want you to be around my son who's 13 so he can see more and more of these kind of men. So it's, I've really enjoyed, but. Do, do you understand kinda my question?
I know I didn't really ask a question there, but like that balance of like, yes we need heart change, but also bro, like get up and do something, you know? Yeah. It's, dude, I, I made a post and I, it's funny 'cause I will make so many Christians mad and I don't mean to, but I made a post, um, because everyone was driving this whole, it's a relationship, you know, it's not a religion.
And I made a post and I said, you know, some of y'all could use a little bit of religion. Mm. Because what you're, what you're taking from this argument is like, oh, Jesus is cool with everything, you know? Right. We're buds and sometimes I cancel on my buddy and, and we take it too far. Right. And And there's no reverence.
There's no discipline. Yes. And so what I've seen at large is we've called religion, or we've called discipline religion so that we don't have to do it. Yeah. So if I say, Hey man, you should be in the word like 30 minutes a day minimum. Yeah. Oh bro. That's religious. God doesn't, you know. Yes. It's like, no, that's called wisdom, you know?
Right. What you're, what you don't like is that you need to kill your flesh on some level. Yeah. So that you can obey what the spirit wants to do. 'cause I'll tell you, my flesh a lot of times doesn't want to read the Bible. Yeah. I'll sit down to read and all of a sudden I'll have a million dollar idea, or I'll have.
That inspired to do all of the sudden, you know, yeah, I should really pressure wash the, uh, the trash can. You know, it's kind of disgusting. It's like, what, where is this coming from? It, dude, it reminds me of my, I have a 3-year-old, I have three, I have four kids, but my 3-year-old, anytime I tell her it's time to do something around like, Hey, help clean up, she always has like, now have to finish eating my sandwich, which she's been not eating.
Right, right, right. Which is what you're describing. It's like, I would love, it's this balance of like, okay, I need discipline. I'm, I'm a man who, I thrive under discipline. I believe men thrive under discipline. That's why the military works. Mm. And so you have to be self-aware enough to go, Hey, I'm actually, I'm undisciplined, or I'm disobedient, or I have a rebellious nature in certain areas Yeah.
That I need to crack down on. Yeah. And uh, and so whether it comes to waking up early and getting in the word, yeah, maybe you do need to do that. But I love what you said because it's never a fruit issue. I. Like an orange tree doesn't wake up and try to produce oranges. It just does. And so if an orange tree produced apples, we wouldn't call it an orange tree.
We'd call it an apple tree. Yeah. And so if you have weird fruit, there's something weird at the root. Yeah. And so I, I think we need to get back to what's driving me. And a lot of times you're not gonna be able to do that unless you, you know, definitively set aside some time to pursue the Lord, to get in the word.
And so I'm a big fan of, you know, uh, discipline, um, but not for the sake of trying to earn anything or achieve anything or, you know, I, I just think the same with fasting. If you only fast when you feel led, you'll probably never fasten your whole life Totally. Unless you get convicted by someone's testimony, right?
Fasting should just be a, a, a disciplined part of our lifestyle. Um, and so as men, I think we need to walk in a level of discipline or naturally will be undisciplined and that doesn't benefit anybody. Yeah, you said it better than I think I was trying to say it, so thank you for putting great words. I heard where you were going.
Yeah, no, you articulated that really, really well. I'll, I'll kind of close the loop here as we wrap up. With going back to the obedience thing and trying to tie in that discipline portion, for me, the biggest thing that has helped has been working out daily, um, to like, I don't want to, I've, I've kind of worked out on and off my whole life.
Yeah. Um, but, and I would say do anything that sucks. I. Daily. Yes. Anything that you feel like sucks daily and you're just training your, your mind and your body and your spirit. So one thing I actually do, uh, I work out daily now. It's the first time in my life I've done like a daily workout every day. Oh, come on.
Um, just to, just to be like, dude, I don't wanna do this and I'm gonna do it anyway. And I think that leads to, it's part of fasting. I want to eat really bad, but my flesh isn't in control. Uh, I'm gonna do stuff that. Even if it goes against my flesh, which I think has so many spiritual benefits. Yes. Um, but one thing I've been, I, I got this little, like $300 popup sauna that I've threw in the corner of my garage.
Nice. And uh, and I sit in that thing and the last three minutes, every time I sit in it for 20 minutes a day, the last three minutes, every time. I hate my life. I'm like, why am I doing this? Sucks so bad. But I'm just praying. Every time. The last three minutes, I'm praying the whole time. It's my time to just be quiet and pray.
But the last three minutes, I'm like, God, train me to do things that I don't wanna do. Train me to step into areas that I'm afraid to step into. That feel too hard. Amen. And I just think, man, that we just, again, uh, I don't want to just push guys to behave, but there is part of you that's like, bro, start being disciplined because it translates to the way I love my wife.
It translates to me not leading my kids in flesh when I'm angry or I'm short on patience or see seeing that politician that I want to hate. And I say, no, I don't. I'm not gonna do what my flesh wants me to do. I'm gonna lean into the spirit of God. So anyway, I just, I think you articulated that really, really well, bro.
So thank you bro. I've really enjoyed this conversation, man. This has been so fun. Where, can guys keep up with you? Yeah, they can. Uh, and me too. Um, I'm on Instagram primarily just at Shane winnings and then, uh, follow the Promise Keepers page. We're putting stuff out there all the time. Yeah, so those are my two main.
I had a podcast for a while, but I haven't done it in over a year. I think I'm. I think I covered all the topics That, okay. Now you should get back on, man. You've, you've got God's given you a great mind to communicate and, um, what, what's the next Promise Keepers thing that guys can sign up for? Yeah, so our relaunch event is, uh, in Oklahoma, August 9th and 10th.
I. Okay, so we're, that's gonna be, um, a ton of fun. We just signed Jim Zel and we've got a couple other, you know, big names that I'm just really excited they're gonna bring something to the men. They're not, you're don't come if you want to get entertained Yeah. Come if you want to get equipped. Yeah. Um, and so that's gonna be powerful.
And then, you know, we'll be doing at least a conference a year or an event a year. Okay. Time being so. Love it. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah. Thanks bro. So good getting to know you and pick your brain, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, you too.