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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
DC: Hello, Brand Nerds. Time to come out to play another podcast of Brand, Beats, and Bytes at you. And for all of you all that have subscribed to the podcast and listened to it, we get your comments. We love that we say thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Brand Nerds, many of you know this, but some of you all will learn this over time. As you start in into your career, you get categorized. Some folks will be called advertising people, LT, other folks will be called marketers. Still, there's another group of people that may be called strategists, and then just generally folks may be, uh, categorized as that's a business person. That's a business person. But there are these discrete categories that folks will attempt to place you in. Sometimes you meet a person that removes all of those boundaries, those, those verticals, and they horizontally cut across all of them. They are great in the agency business. They are wonderful marketers. They are great strategists, and they are great business people and Brand Nerds, we have one of those individuals today on Brands, Beats and Bytes. And I'll just share this, Larry, before I kick it over to you.
LT: Yep.
DC: So his company shared a client with our company, Larry, and you'll talk about this, uh, maybe a little later or, or certainly I will. And so I'm, I'm, I'm listening to the presentation cuz I study folks when they talk, how they talk, how they make a point, how their brains work, and as I was listening to this person lay out the, the, the information, the facts, the insights. I thought to myself, there's something more going on here that meets the eye.
There's, there's another connection possibly that this brother and I have, and I found out what it was, and you'll talk about this, Larry. Yeah. We attended the same business school, the same graduate business school. So with that Brand Nerds, I am happy to bring to you all along with Larry, a boundary buster LT, who are we blessed to have in the virtual house on this day?
LT: Oh, DC You're setting it up Great. Already. We have Reginald Osborne in the house today. Welcome, Reginald.
Reginald Osborne: Thank you. Glad to be here.
LT: We're, we are really excited to have you. So, okay. Brand Nerds, just like DC did a great setup job here. Straight up, we have another great guest who is a friend of the show and as DC alluded to, like DC and Jeff, he is also a double HBCU grad with undergrad in marketing from Savannah State, and just like DC said, he and Jeff and now our great guest, Reginald, all obtained an MBA in Marketing from Clark Atlanta University.
So Reginald started after CAU Reginald started on the client side working at Nabisco as an associate brand manager before joining Spike DDB, where he works his way up to account director, a notable accounts such a State Farm, Jaguar, and Foxwoods Resorts and Casinos. So Reginald now gets a cool opportunity back on the client side to be the Associate Director of Multicultural Marketing at Pharmaceutical Company, Novartis, where he helps lead the establishment of the Multicultural Marketing Center of Excellence, which is pretty cool. So then Reginald jumps back to another great opportunity on the agency side where he goes to big agency Arnold Worldwide, becoming SVP of Multicultural Marketing, and he spearheads a group to develop the agency's vision for multicultural marketing and how it should be structured on key clients' business.
Additionally, he leads the African American and LGTBQ+ efforts for Totality, the multicultural business unit. He also works with key client McDonald's, developing a successful total market integrated beverage campaign, which increases sales by 15% and launches a successful McDonald's McCafe campaign targeting African-American and Hispanic consumers increasing awareness and trial by 20%. What you're noticing is not only does Reginald do some really cool things in the multicultural space here, but they actually drive business, which is really cool. He then joins Walter Isaacson agency as VP Group Account Director, where he is a member of the leadership team and he manages their New York office.
Very importantly, Reginald establishes the LGBTQ plus cultural practice for the agency and guides the LGBTQ plus marketing efforts for key clients such as Lexus, McDonald's, and Grindr. Additionally, Reginald makes lots of great things happen, including one leading the team that pitches and wins the Macy's account, resulting in a three-year relationship as agency of record for the Black and Hispanic consumer segment. Two, co-leading the pitch for the NYPD recruitment efforts, resulting in a 55 million in revenue over a five year contract for the agency and managing the really big Samsung account.
So after that, Reginald then joins big agency. VMLYNR. Yes, that is the Y N R. Formerly Young and Rubicam for those of us who've been around a while, as group account director, where he leads the National Partnership Engagement program to focus on increasing participation in the 2020 census within the Black and African-American community.
Most recently, Reginald joins big agency DDB, where he is the group business leader responsible for managing Kroger Health, and here's what DC was talking about, and Aflac, which is who, who we share that DC alluded to in his setup. Uh, and so Reginald actually also leads the launch of the Kroger Health brand campaign highlighting the different wellness services available at the big grocery chain stores to build awareness and drive traffic at Kroger pharmacies and clinics. Lastly, Brand Nerds, Reginald resides in Harlem, New York and is an avid cyclist and also enjoys baking and traveling. Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes, Reginald Osborne.
Reginald Osborne: Wow. All right, so appreciate that welcome, man. You guys are making me feel great.
LT: Well, you did it all. Reginald, I just speak it. You did it.
DC: Larry is being humble because, Larry is humble. He's not just being humble. He is humble. Reg. He does that and like I'm keeping it a, a stack with you.
Every single person that graces us and the Brand Nerds with their presence when they are hearing the, the bio read back as, uh, for the Brand Nerds that can't see Reg, some of you all will see this in in video. You, you, you can see the mind going, wow, like that was quite a journey. All you Reg, all you and Larry does a savant like job of breaking it down.
So we, we are really happy you're here. And I, I now get to take us into a section we call Get Comfy Reg, where we ask a question that kick things started. And what I noticed over the, um, the course of your career is that there are some things that listening to them here in the year 2023, so Jade and Jeff and Hayley, they don't like me to date things.
So I won't say today's date, but in the year 2023, reg you, you, you can listen to some of these things and go, oh yeah, Uhhuh. But when you did them different, You started early Reginald in multicultural marketing. It's cool now it's cool in 2023. Alright. But when you started to go into this area, it wasn't so cool.
Yep. Spike. Spike, DDB. So Spike now and he even, even then, he was an accomplished filmmaker. He was not yet an accomplished person in the world of advertising. Right. He simply was not. Yeah. Right. So this was an early move that Reg made. So when you hear Spike Lee, oh yeah, he is done The Kobe films and all that. Yeah. Now he's done all these campaigns now, but back then, no. And then, um, LGBTQ plus. So still burgeoning, but hey, like 10 years ago, Reg, you know, nobody whether wasn't trying to mess with that. So you are a pioneer Reg in that you have selected these areas to go into before they were defined and you've been a part of defining it.
Now I'm coming to my question. You know this Reg I worked at the Coca-Cola company, Brand Nerds know that, wonderful experience, uh, in repositioning Sprite brand, the team of us, uh, based on a series of insights which I've gone into at nauseum and other podcasts. Uh, but hip hop ended up becoming the core and culture the core of that brand.
So Reg, there, there are times when people thought I was the Black marketer, okay? The Black marketer, not, not the marketing or the brand manager who was good and happened to be Black. Alright? So I was a bit of a pioneering. Well, so Reg, the question is, what made you seek out these areas that needed pioneering? What was it that, uh, you were drawn to and how was it received in the early days?
Reginald Osborne: Mm. Great. Great question. DC um, I have one word and that is passion.
DC: Mm.
Reginald Osborne: Passion. Actually passion coupled with curiosity.
LT: Ooh, that's good.
Reginald Osborne: Um, it was back in my undergraduate years and, and you might remember this, remember Right On magazine?
DC: Oh, abso, oh, yes, yes.
Reginald Osborne: Well, they, they had profiled, um, Tom Burrell, who of course is the, um, founder in, at that time was the Chief Creative Officer as well of Burrell Advertising. And I was so enamored with, um, this article because I had not known about advertising agencies. Mm-hmm. I did not know, uh, what they did and to see this Black man. Who not only worked in advertising, but had a very successful agency and had these big accounts like McDonald's. I was really curious. And his, his one thing that he said was his proposition was to show a positive portrayal of African-Americans. Mm-hmm. And I said, you know what? I think I want to do that. So fast forward, it took me some time to try to figure that out because to your point, um, once I finished undergrad and I moved to Atlanta, hot Atlanta at the time, um, I wanted to work in the agency business, but as hard as I tried as many doors as I knocked on, they just weren't having, I think at that time, a young Black man, uh, to walk into any of the major agencies at the time.
DC: Uh, got it.
Reginald Osborne: So my first job really was working at Cox in Enterprises, uh, working in sales. Uh, now what I will say about that is, as my dad told me, um, uh, Henry Ford had a, a famous line and he said, "nothing happens until a sales is made." Mm-hmm. So once you understand fundamentally how to go out, prospect, sell something, uh, yeah. Set goals, it's a fundamental, um, skillset that you will carry with you throughout your career if you're in marketing. Because at the end of the day, even when we're in the advertising side, we're selling, we're, we're selling. It's a different Yeah. Process than selling media. But you're still selling, you're still reading the room, you're still figuring out how to come over objections.
So it took me a while before I actually, um, could get into the agency business and then, you know, I got so frustrated because I'd done, I think all the right moves. I'd become the president of the Ad Club, uh, in Atlanta. And I said, you know what? I am going to figure this out by going to B School and go and get me a MBA and then that way I could fast track and get into brand management and then move forward along in my career.
So, fast forward, I, I did that, uh, went to Clark Atlanta University. First job was at Nabisco. What I realized, cuz I was an assistant manager on Harvest Crisp Crackers and Triscuit was that I didn't enjoy the brand management route so much as I did working with the promotions in the advertising agency, which was McCann.
Oh, that's when I shortly made, you know what, I'm in the wrong side of this. My passion and my desire is really in the advertising business. So made that switch. Three or four years at different agencies. At that time, they had the big agencies like Bates, which offered phenomenal training. Um mm-hmm. I ended up at Gray, um, Gray Healthcare, and I had a wonderful supervisor, this woman by the name of Julietta Crystal.
And, um, at that time, you know, I, I could've easily kind of pursued a career in pharmaceutical advertising. Mm-hmm. But I got a call from a recruiter that said, Hey, there's this, this opening, um, for an account role at Spike DDB, which I'd never heard of. Of course I knew Spike Lee and they do multicultural marketing. And I was like, wow. I went back to that article that I had read about Burrell. I said, this is coming full circle. Mm-hmm. So I made the, the, the jump and it was definitely a jump because the other pivotal move was going from a big large agency with resources to a boutique agency of 12. Yeah. And, you know, that is very entrepreneurial where you're thrown into the fire. And as I was told, at any given day, Reginald, you could either move our business forward or backwards. Hmm mm-hmm. And of course, you know, being, um, in the presence and working and learning, I think the key thing there was how Spike. Spike was brilliant at really understanding the nuances in Black culture and how to leverage those nuances into creative and communications that would really resonate with that audience.
So that was the big learning, um, at that agency.
DC: Mm mm
LT: That's huge.
DC: Wow. Wow, Larry?
LT: Uh, that, I'm so glad you told that run of show almost. I was struck by that Henry Ford quote that you did, that you attributed to your dad telling you, you know, yeah.
Uh, at the beginning. That, and which I think is really deep, that, you know, for marketers to know that nothing happens until a sale was made and too many marketers lose sight of that. And it feels like that's something you've consciously had top of mind for you, your whole career.
Reginald Osborne: Yes. Yes. And, and you know, I will say my experience working, I. Um, when I was at Arnold, um, working, um, as the SVP of Multicultural Marketing, 90% of my time was really spent to support the McDonald's business, and it was the McDonald's business on the regional level. Mm-hmm. So what that meant was we were working for the owner operators right. In those areas. And so what was critical as to why they needed someone with my expertise is that when you looked at those markets like Baltimore, DC um, no pun intended, uh, Phil Philadelphia, New York, when you added up the Black, Hispanic and Asian consumers, they were more than 50% of the business for those owner operators. And as owner operators, they were very driven towards performance. So at the end of the day, they were like, did the promotion or the advertising move the needle? Did it get people through the door? Did it make the cash register ring? So it was a, it was really performance advertising at its best.
LT: Interesting.
DC: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Brand Nerds. I wanna point something out here that Reg just has tapped on very early. Larry, as you were reading, uh, Reginald's, uh, CV these are some of the names of the, of the brands and companies that he's worked on. State Farm, Jaguar Nabisco, and McDonald's. We've all heard of those. But Reg said when a recruiter called him, And said, Hey, there's an account director position open at Spike DDB. Reg said, I never heard of that. He said he heard of Spike, but he, I never heard, I never, and he worked in the business. He never, he never heard of it. He never heard of it. So Brand Nerds, sometimes you got to do stuff you never heard of before. Sometimes you gotta do it. And that's what Reg did. That's a, that's a great, that's a great opening, Reg. We're now gonna go to our first, um, our, our first segment of reading an ad. And this is the only, this is the first sponsor we've ever had. Reg we're very happy about them. We're like Arm and Arm. We're like arm and arm and uh, Larry does the honor. So Larry, can you do the honors on our wonderful support partner?
LT: Yes, DC We love the folks at Specificity. Hey, Brand Nerds, back here to talk to you about Specificity and Brand Nerds, we know many of you are immersed in digital marketing or just simply involved in it. Either way, if you wanna optimize your digital marketing to maximize results, we have the solution for you in 2021, an interesting thing happened that forever changed the landscape of digital marketing. Apple's iOS update was structured to provide users the opportunity to opt out of ads. And more than 90% of users opted out.
Android quickly followed suit with similar opt-out numbers. This situation created complete upheaval for the entire digital marketing infrastructure with engagement rates falling precipitously. Now you know why you may be a 22 year old female playing your favorite game app on your phone, and all of a sudden you're being hit with an in-app ad for row game that's serious money down the drain.
Here's where Specificity comes in to save the day. Specificity does not track or know user's personal data such as name, social security number, et cetera. Specificity uses device ID numbers similar to a VIN number on a car, so they track what users are doing with without knowing their personally identifiable information.
Working in harmony with a post-privacy update. Now with Specificity, both the consumer and the advertiser are happy. Since consumers see digital ads that are relevant for them and advertisers serve ads to people that are receptive to the message. Let's give a real life example. If Jeff's old brand Lunchables wanted to use specificity, they can serve as to only parents. Not just to any parent. They can dial into serving ads to only working parents of, let's say, children, 6 to 12. Additionally, if they wanted to, they could also not serve ads to any parents who are vegetarians or other similar dietary restrictions who would not be prone to buy Lunchables. Bottom line is this would enable Lunchables to be incredibly efficient in serving their message only to those who would be most receptive and doing it in a way that completely respects said consumers privacy.
Since they do not know or learn any personal information about these people, the bottom line is in 2023, we believe no one else out there can deliver better digital marketing results than Specificity. We have introduced Specificity to many clients and everyone is super happy since each client has been more successful with their digital marketing efforts than they were before.
For more information on specificity, please visit their website at specificityinc.com. Again, specificity inc.com. That's S P E C I F I C I T Y I N C.com. Their website is also on our show notes. If you wanna improve your digital marketing results, go check them out.
DC: Thank you, Larry. Alright, reg, we're going to, Uh, what we call five questions.
Reginald Osborne: Yes.
DC: I ask a question, I already ask a question. We go back and forth until we get to five. But before I ask the first question, I got to go back to something that you said earlier and that was how you found out about advertising at Tom Burrell and you mentioned a magazine called Right On. So Brand Nerds. You gotta share a little bit about what was going on here. So there were two magazines during this time. I won't give the decades. You can go look it out. One was called Tiger Beat. You know what I'm talking about, Reginald you know what I'm talking about Larry and the other one was caught Right On. Now these were teen magazines, popular culture. So on Tiger Beat on the cover you might find The Osmond Brothers for example, cuz they were a huge group at the time. But on, right on. You'd have The Jackson five, the Jackson Five. Silver, they would the Silvers, these poster
Silver, what'd you say? Re The Silvers? Silvers Silver. The Silvers. The Silvers. The Jackson five, the Silvers. Yes. So you would take out, they would have posters in these magazines. You'd take 'em out, you'd unfold them and put 'em on your wall. So I did not know anyone in my neighborhood that did not have a poster on their wall from Right On Magazine. It was a rite of passage. So you said right on. I haven't even heard that name Reg and uh, in so long. But here we go to the five questions. All right. So Reg, think back, young person, you engage with a brand, you are just enamored with this brand. You cannot get enough of the brand, you consume it, think about it, love it. All the things. Uh, so much so that it felt like it was a first love. What was that first brand, uh, and branding experience for you, Reg?
Reginald Osborne: Hmm. Well, to be honest, I would say it really didn't happen for me until a little bit later in life. And that's what with Apple.
LT: Oh, cool.
DC: Ah, okay.
Reginald Osborne: I would say. Um, because now I'm so immersed in the ecosystem of Apple, from laptop to phone, to TV to music, you know, and, and then when I look at my bank statement and I see all these sundries of charges, I was like, yep, this is amazing how they really get you so hooked.
Because I can't think of any other computer, any other phone, uh, any other music device where I would want to, um, just because early in my career, you know, we were so, it, it is so funny in the agency business, in the beginning, account, people had PCs.
LT: Yeah, I remember that.
Reginald Osborne: Apples was, you know, apple was for the realm of the creators, right?
LT: That's right.
Reginald Osborne: And so once I first, you know, got, uh, I, I bought my own, uh, computer at the time in terms of the Apple laptop, I would say, wow, this is so much easier to use than a pc. So for me it's always been the ease of use. Um, the, the, the equipments, they work like, pretty much like appliances. You never have a real issue with them.
Mm-hmm. And then as the software and the services began, I just got further and further embedded with them. So I, I, I have to say for me it's Apple.
DC: Apple. Got it.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah. And, and, and you and, and from a marketing standpoint, what I love is you never go in expecting it to be on sale. You know what the price is. Ah, yeah. You're delighted When they may say, oh, we've got a, you know, a student discount, or we've got something for teachers where, you know, it's 10% off during the season, but you know that because of the quality and the experience of the product that you're not trying to negotiate and, and there's no expectation that it will be on sale.
LT: Nope.
DC: Talk about brand value. Yeah, I, I'll share a quick story and then Larry, I'm, I'm gonna give it, give you the rock, uh, Reg. I could not stand Apple people could not stand them. I thought Apple folks were full of malarkey.
LT: Yeah. I never heard you said this.
DC: Yeah. This is what I thought. I, I'm surprised I hadn't shared this with you, Larry.
So, Brand Nerds, I go from Coca-Cola to the world of tech startups in California at Boost Mobile, and I have a creative and design team. To your point, Reg, they all use Mac. Everyone else used the PC. So they would often give me things to look at, to approve. And so one time I'm looking at something and, and I am telling them, uh, what the, the, the, the lead creative, his name is Wally. So I'm like, W Wally Fox, shout Wally Fox. Hey, hey Wally. Um, why is this color off? What's going on here? What? And then what Wally, they'd been trying to get me to get a Mac for like months and, uh, and so, or maybe, maybe it was weeks. And so you, you could sense their frustration with me, right? Because they were trying to show, so what would happen is they would then go, it's your PC, that's the issue.
And then they would, they would bring in, they'd bring in the, the, the, the, the Mac and go see. And that happened maybe a couple times. And after I was like, I just broke down Reg and Larry, I just broke down ok, gimme a Mac. And I said, I will use it though, only Reg, only to look the creative. That's the only way I did, I got that thing. And it wasn't a week later where I thought, okay, I'm a Neanderthal here. Was I doing with that PC? So that's kinda how I b I bought it to the, uh, Apple as a, uh, as a product, and then more importantly as a, as a brand. But Larry, any reactions before we go to the next question, brother?
LT: Yeah, just a quick reaction. You know, I sort of felt, I think similarly to DC at one point, um, but then I also thought about there's something interesting going on this Apple universe. And then I went from maybe a little bit of disdains, probably too strong a word, but antipathy about it to getting my first Mac. And I don't have anything that's not Apple ever since.
Mm-hmm. Reginald you talk about the ecosystem, I mean, They've got me hook, line, and sinker all the way, every way. And, um, yeah. Yeah. And I think that I, I love the fact, and you're not the first person to say Apple, and there's a good reason for that. And by the way, just some brand rankings came out and they're the number one brand in the world, and there's a reason for that.
DC: Yeah.
LT: And they have the, I love what you said though. Yeah. There's no expectation of sale. They don't do one thing that talks ab that even intimates price. Mm-hmm. Nothing. They never do anything. We, and we use it in our brand workshop, by the way. We use an old iPad too, versus a Kindle. And the Kindle's like, you know, whatever the price.
Apple never talks about price because they understand that their brand and said products have great value built in. And so why should they ever talk about price?
Reginald Osborne: The o the only other brand that I know that, that is on par with that, um, is Louis Vuitton. Mm, you go into the store. Yeah. If you can in some cases, even if you can get into the store.
LT: Yeah, that's true.
Reginald Osborne: That's right. That's right. You don't, you don't go in there looking for sale or haggling.
DC: No. All right, Larry.
LT: All right, let's go to the next question. So Reginald, who is had or is having the most influence on your career?
Reginald Osborne: Wow. I will have to say is a gentleman, um, by the name of Gary Steele, who I worked for when I was at Arnold in, uh, let me tell you about Gary. Gary is probably one of the, the last of the, um, Mad Men era. You know, cigar chomping, suspender wearing guy, uh, shoot straight from the hip. And what I loved about Gary, I was, I think he's the first person that really, um, took an interest in really sitting down and mentoring me. You know, and that is, uh, one of his principles is he believes in giving people that he worked for immediate feedback. Mm-hmm. So rather you go in and you gave a presentation, or rather you were, you know, sent, you know, your thoughts on strategy or whatever. You know, he would sit down with you and say, Hey, here's what you did right. Here's what I think you can approve upon. And I think, you know, when I look back on my career, either managers were never really interested in doing that, nor did I really seek it out.
Um, okay. But I think as we, as I, as I progressed, um, cuz we're still in touch today, in fact, we went out and had cigars and something to drink, uh, a couple of weeks ago. But he also was a person who, given that we were both account, you know, in the, in the lane of account people, he taught me some valuable lessons about what our role is and how it is important as a account person to know that client's business better than anyone in the agency. You have to have satiable curiosity, right? And you also have to have the courage to tell the client when they're wrong and, but at the same time be able to bring an idea or solution to the problem problem. And so those are some fundamental, I think, guiding principles that have served me well, um, that he shared with me.
LT: What a great mentor. I'm loving Gary. Shout out to him.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Def definitely. Uh, what, you know when, when you see him in his whole aura. Uh, because he ran two big, two big pieces of business. He was really the account, um, director for many years on Wendy's. Uh
DC: Oh, okay.
Reginald Osborne: During his heyday then, uh, you know, he came over from, um, I forget where he was at the, I think it was at McCann and then came over to Arnold, um, and then, you know, helped us to run the McDonald's business that we had.
DC: Mm. So Reg question for you on his style of immediate feedback.
Reginald Osborne: Yes.
DC: I think you will attest, that's unusual. Uh, it's unusual to find a manager or person that will do that for two reasons. First is many are not comfortable giving constructive. Criticism and feedback. They just want to offer platitudes.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah.
DC: And the second is we have something that is very known in just psychology called recency bias, which is if you don't give feedback or have a conversation at day one, by day 100, you've forgotten that you can only give feedback on what just happened at day 99.
Reginald Osborne: Right.
DC: You don't remember that day one.
Reginald Osborne: Right.
DC: And so how did you respond to him providing you this immediate feedback given, I imagine you hadn't experienced much of that before.
Reginald Osborne: I was it. It made me have a real, I think, um, Honest relationship because look, for me as a Black man in a business that still grapples with diversity and inclusion, um, I think that I'd been around long enough where I saw so much lip service being said that I took it as, you know, here's someone who was genuinely interested in my progress.
Because what he said, at the end of the day, he is like, my success depends on your success. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And to understand that as a management, it's part of a team effort. It's not that I'm telling you what to do. He is like, I want you to do well, because if you succeed in the goals that I set for you, then I do well.
So it's a partnership, right. And I think having that real dialogue helped me to have more trust and belief. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That someone was actually mentoring and interested in mentoring me as an African-American male.
DC: Hmm.
LT: Really interesting.
DC: That's strong. That's strong.
Reginald Osborne: Very, very. And, and that's very, I think that's probably one of the things that too often, and particularly in the agency business, where you have to have not only a mentor, but someone who can advocate for you.
LT: Right. And, and they go hand in hand, don't they, Reginald? Like, you know. Right. If you, if you're mentoring somebody, you're, and, and they're coming along and, and you're, you have a vested interest in advocating for them too.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah. Well, I, I think mentors, you can, you can pull from the variety of places. I think an advocate is someone who, at the end of the day, when they're sitting around to decide who stays, who goes, who gets promoted, right?
That person is beating on the table saying, "Hey, I want Reginald to be promoted, or Reginald stays because I believe he's done X, Y, Z."
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: And that, that to me is a, is is a huge difference in terms of having someone who has the clout to say, okay, you know, we're an influence to keep you on board or promote you further.
DC: That's a great distinction. That's a, that's a great distinction. All right, Reg, I'm going to the next question, which has nothing to do with your successes. Larry's covered that you received many different rewards and, and the like. I want to get down to the F ups. So what was the biggest F up in your career?
And by F up Reginald, what we mean is you effed up. Not my manager did this and yeah, someone on my team did. This is on you. You effed up and then importantly what you learned from said F up.
Reginald Osborne: Okay. You know, um, I'm gonna take a different approach to this. I'm not gonna tell you something that's tactical, you know, cuz I'm sure you probably have heard that before.
Um, I'm gonna tell you, it's something that was much more personal and introspective, but powerful for me. And that was bringing my full self to the table every day. That was being an African American of Black. I like Black by the way. Um, Black man. Who happens to also live at the intersection of being a gay man mm-hmm.
Is something that I did not always bring fully to the table and mm-hmm. What I realized is that it cost me something, it cost me a lot of energy in the sense of worrying, um, not being confident. Um, mm. In some cases being uncomfortable or awkward in situations because here's what happens, you know, I present as, as I've been told, as a straight person, whatever that means in people's eyes, right?
DC: Yeah. Yeah.
Reginald Osborne: So I, yeah, so I've, I've been in rooms and conversations where I've heard things said about gay people where I never stood up. You know, I've literally been said, you know, if I ordered a, I think at the time I was ordering a drink, I remember I ordered a Cosmo and someone said something to the effect of, you know, why would you order that, that sissy drink? You know, so it's those kind of things that microaggressions things that were said that over time probably really chipped away at my confidence in a subconscious way that I was never really fully aware of. And so had I realized like the power that. I now have having, you know, been in places where, you know, I came out and I brought my full self to the table, and how much freer and how much more creativity and productive I could be as a person.
I would've done that years ago.
LT: Wow.
Reginald Osborne: And, and I think that's something that I, I would love to impart to, to younger people, you know, rather, you know, whatever you feel your, your difference is, is that that difference is what makes you unique and what can help you make a difference in any environment or organization.
LT: Ooh, thank you for sharing that, Reginald. Like, it's so powerful. Um, so if you don't mind me asking, when did you say f it, I'm gonna be my full genuine self. Like was there, was it conscious? Like, if you don't mind sharing with us how, you know, when and how'd that happened? That would be wonderful.
Reginald Osborne: I remember that moment. Um, I was working at Walton Isaacson, um, and Aaron Walton, um, who is a pioneer. He was just inducted into the, um, to the Advertising Hall of Fame this past spring. Um, I worked very closely with Aaron, and Aaron is an openly gay man who has been married for a, a number of years. And I remember we were on a call with a client, actually it was our Macy's client, and we had just won, and Aaron said, well, my husband and I, we are going to do X, Y, and Z without hesitation, just as though it was just natural flow of conversation.
Yeah. And I said, you know what? That's what I'm going to be. I said because that was so empowering to me, um, to see that happen and I was at a place where I could do that. There was no reason for me not to. Right. Um, and so that's what led me to, um, to really think more about, um, how I could leverage my, my passion and my curiosity in the LGBTQ marketing space.
DC: Alright. Uh, Reg, before you answered this question, which is what's your biggest FUp and what you learned from it? You said, I don't want to go tactical. I wanna go personal. I can assure you that of the more than 100 podcasts that we've done here at Brand, Beats, and Bytes, We have not had an answer that is, is as personal
LT: Yes.
DC: As you have brought forward. So thank you very much as Larry has said, for bringing that forward. So I got two things.
Reginald Osborne: Sure.
DC: I want to ask you a question and then I wanna make a comment and get you to react to it. But the question first, so the second part of this question is, what did you learn from it?
Looking back now? Mm-hmm. At the time that you spent not bringing your full self mm-hmm. Into your career and then making the decision to then do it. What have, what did you learn from both the before and the after?
Reginald Osborne: Mm. That's a great question. What I, you know, it's kind of like, um, DC the Emperor's new clothes, right? What, what I've learned is as you rise in your career, um, most of the time you're around smart people. Sometimes you are around average people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But let's just say you're around smart people, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. They're already curious and they're already making up stories about you. Right.
Especially when you stand, that's good as a African-American male, right? So they're like, okay, yeah. You're one of how many we've seen, so, yep. Yeah. What do, who do we know about? What do we know? Because most of the time in, in business, it's relationships. Right?
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: It's how comfortable do we feel with you?
LT: Yeah.
Reginald Osborne: Do we, what do you do on the weekends? What, who you know? Yeah. So when you're sitting around at lunch, or rather it's cocktails after a business meeting, that's where people become more endeared to you. Where you can build better trust and when you are on mute, because I might not be comfortable saying, Hey, this weekend my partner and I, we did X, Y, Z.
DC: Yeah. Yeah.
Reginald Osborne: Or, you know, I did this that might have given some insight into the fact that I'm a gay man. Then you can't really get to know that person on a deeper level, and then that's where trust comes in, right? Mm-hmm. Cause people want to know who you are and who they're doing business with.
DC: Yeah.
Reginald Osborne: And when you don't have that, and they may not like it, but at least they know.
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: I think that's probably one of the biggest things that the authenticity of a person is power. Mm. It helps you to lead, it helps you to have influence. Wow. It helps you to be able to be trusted as a leader, and so, That is what I, I learned and, and, and, and what I believe would've helped me more and what I know does help me now.
LT: This is so good and so deep. I know you had another comment, but I just wanna make a quick point and give Reginald some props here While before your quick comment. Before your comment, I wanna tell you that you're younger than DC and I are, but still, 20, 25 years ago, the culture was not as hospitable to you being your genuine self.
Reginald Osborne: Right.
DC: It ain't all that hospitable now.
LT: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. So, so I, I have such, um, man, I have, I have such uber respect for you and having to think about this stuff. Like, like you said, it was, it permeates your soul in every way, like. As you're going to work, probably you're walking to work like, okay, you, you, you had to put out a different hat on almost, right?
Because you, you weren't being your authentic self, but there was a reason for that, you know? So that's really difficult to navigate
Reginald Osborne: well, well, Larry, that's the existence of, you know, to be honest, most black folk I know, you know, it's, it's wearing, it's learning how to live these bifurcated lives, right?
It's just another layer when you ha also live at the intersection of being black. And I think, again, the privilege sometimes, and I call it that because if you don't know that I'm gay, sometimes people, people speak freely and they will say things that are, you know, rather they think it's harmful or whatever, um, to say, Hey, you know, I have a bias towards gay people. Now, if I were, let's just say a, a, a Black person who could pass, then maybe I might hear some remarks they, they might have about Black Now. Yeah. Yeah. So you learn how to navigate. But I think in the end, what I've realized is there's where the courage comes to help stand up. Right. Because we will all not be able to lift the tide until we all have more inclusion. Right? So ie. you know, rather you want to pull that person to the side and say, Hey, you know, what you said earlier is offensive because I am a member of that, um, population. And sometimes it's in their defense, it might be innocently said, and then sometimes it might be really a bias, but it helps to put it on the table.
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: So that we all can start to feel, because with this whole de and I thing, you know, you, it, it won't progress unless there's discomfort in the room.
LT: Yep.
DC: Yeah. Well said. All right, reg, I'm gonna go to my comment here.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah.
DC: So, um, You just said to, uh, Larry when Larry asked the question, like, man, that, that must have been hard to do. And then you, you mentioned like, well, when you're black, you kinda have to deal with this stuff. And so, uh, what, what I think Reg is, is that if, uh, if you were starting out and you said, okay, over the course of the last 500 years mm-hmm. You get to come into the world and pick what ethnicity you're going to be, what gender you're going to be, and what orientation you're going to be. Okay? Last on the list is a Black man. That's okay. You, you don't want to come in as a Black person. And then secondly, go into a Black man. Alright? You don't wanna do that. Okay? If you gonna be Black, can I be a Black woman, please. Now I don't want a Black man. And if I'm gonna be a black man, please Lord, I'm not picking Black man and gay.
I'm not doing that. Alright, so, uh, uh, Reg, like, whoa, whoa on that brother. So, uh, I'll give an experience not like yours, uh, at all, but it does speak to what you had to go through to, to, to muster the courage to bring your full self to work. So, when I was at Coke Reg and a Brand Nerds heard me say this, you never have, I'm there coming outta CAU, just like you and their MBAs from all over the country and world with MBAs from some of the top big schools in the, in the world.
You had the same experience when you went over to Nabisco. You got folks from, you know, from Harvard, from Stanford, from Fuqua, from Darden, from all these different schools, uh, Kellogg. And so Reg, I did not feel comfortable being a double HBCU graduate competing with these folks. I didn't. So Reg, what I, what I did is I tried to do my assistant brand manager job like they did, and I failed Reg. I, I started, uh, um, um, rubbing on my skin and getting cuts, rubbing on my hair and getting cuts because I was not bringing my full self to work different than you, different than you Reg at the moment. I decided, fuck it, I'm a, I'm a Black man. I grew up, I grew up in the trap in Detroit. There's, I went to two HBCUs. I'm gonna do it the way I know how to do it. Yep. That was the change of my career. And dare I say Reg, without that change. I'm not talking to you right now. I'm not. I'm not talking to you right now. Alright, so my question to you is for those that may not feel like they've got the power yet mm-hmm to bring their full selves out, for those that are they, they don't quite have the confidence.
You've mentioned this a couple times, reg didn't have the confidence. Is there anything you can share with these young folks that might imbue them with more confidence? Imbue them with more courage to get closer to making the decisions so they don't have to scratch themselves and make sores or be uncomfortable about what they're going to be doing over the weekend.
Anything you can share with the Brand Nerds, Reg?
Reginald Osborne: Absolutely. I would say, um, at the highest level, we are all on a journey, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and, and it all happens in, in time, but to it to, to embrace the whole idea of being comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Mm-hmm. Being uncomfortable in uncomfortable situations, right?
Mm-hmm. And that's where we are from, for the most part, in, in a lot of where, what's happening in the world, right? And, and as soon as you learn to, to, to do that, and I think particularly for people of color, And also LGBTQ. Look at the history. We, we come from a rich history of people that had to be courageous to pave the pathway for where we sit and as we say, the shoulders that we stand on.
Right? And if it weren't for them, having that courage and that faith to believe we would not be where we are today. So I say that to say to any young person, whatever journey you're on, whatever path, live your life boldly, audaciously as uniquely as you are because you have something to bring to the table just as you are.
You know, one of the things that I loved, um, when I, when we, when I was in, uh, business school, and I cannot remember our prof, the professor who, who said this, and she said, you know, and it, it was profound and it just stayed with through throughout my life. And that was, don't let them place you. So, in other words, do not because of someone else's perception of who you are, put you in a box.
Mm-hmm. You don't know really who you are and what you can be until you choose to reveal uniquely who you are and what your skills and, and your makeup and your identity is, and bring all of that to the table because it's all needed in this world today.
DC: I'm gonna say this, uh, no, go ahead Larry. I should
LT: read. No, it's just, I'm loving this conversation. I, I think it's, I think it's relevant to the folks in your specific place, Reginald, but it's relevant to everyone who feels like they're an other in any way.
Reginald Osborne: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, let's not forget, you know, we've got people who are dealing with, um, disabilities, right?
Yep. Yeah. Um, rather they're seen or not. Um, you know, for so long we've just focused on black and, and, and, you know, and to some degree Hispanic, but you know, anyone that feels like they've had to live their life on the outside right? And not necessarily a part of mainstream. I think that's where we are today because it's only becoming more and more diverse.
LT: Yep.
DC: Mm-hmm. Um, I'll say this Reg, and then we'll move to the next question. This is about you arriving at a place where you were bringing your full self into your, uh, into your career. Um, same for me. So Brand Nerds. Imagine, um, you are going to some, um, social event and you've been invited. So when I go to a social event, I'm normally showing up with some kind of a libation.
I love Japanese whiskeys. I love fine tequilas and I really love myself a like Bordeaux or some monster Cab. So here's the deal, Brand Nerds, when I'm invited somewhere and I show up, they know I'm bringing one of those things and if I don't show up, they're not getting that gift. They might get another, they might get a Jack Daniels, okay? They might, they might get a Merlot, but they're not gonna get the bottle that I show up with cuz that's my specifically curated bottle that I like. That represents me for this occasion and people love that. When you don't show up with your full self, you deprive them of your special gift.
LT: Yes.
DC: You deprive them of that. So what we're getting from Reg since he made that decision is we got all of Reg where before we were only getting some of Reg. That's good. Yeah. But not good enough. All right. Uh, ma'am, we, I don't think we spent that much time on that question. I'm glad, I'm glad we did that.
That was great, Reg. All right, Larry.
LT: Great.
DC: Next question, brother.
LT: Yeah, that was great. Uh, so, uh, Reginald, regarding technology and marketing, tech continues to play a larger and larger role in our lives, both professionally and personally. Can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech versus areas that they should be leery?
Reginald Osborne: Mm. Well, here, here's my thing here. I have some thoughts about tech. Right? And, and that is, you know, when you of a certain age and you were born, you're, I'm not a digital native. Uh, I still know what it is to live in a house with one, uh, telephone line in, in the yellow phone in the kitchen. Yeah. Uh, so, um, I see technology as a tool that can help and it can also hurt.
Mm-hmm. And particularly as living in this age of, um, social media. Um, social media. Digital media has been wonderful in terms of giving, you know, ch pretty much revolutionizing the way we communicate in marketing to put the power more in the hands of people than the media conglomerates. Right. And that's been a change that's been happening.
Over the last, say, 10 or 15 years, right? As we see the rise of, of, of platforms, digital influencers, et cetera, et cetera, and the waning power of, um, of some of the, you know, TV network stations and cable stations. Right? Um, so I think that for one, and particularly for multicultural audiences, it's been kind of somewhat of leveling the playing field in terms of giving them access, uh, for, um, amplification of issues and their voices and concerns. Um, as it relates particularly to LGBTQ, it's been really, um, a wonderful, uh, tool because if you think about some places in this world, even some places in this country, it's still not safe to be out and gay. And to have apps that are available to be able to allow people to communicate and find communities online for safety.
Or like, there's one app that could tell you if you're traveling abroad, you know, which countries are actually red zones, where God forbid if you're locked up, you could be in prison if you are just seen walking down the street, holding hands with another man. Mm-hmm. So I think, you know, yeah. Technology absolutely in, in, in many cases has been able to help, particularly not only marketing, um, in terms of brand and, and for us to be able to have a more one-on-one relationship with consumers, but I also think it's helped in terms of helping with societal issues as well.
LT: Got it. All makes sense. Do you have anything to add or you want to go to the next question?
DC: Do not. Last question, Reg. Sure. What are you most proud of, brother?
Reginald Osborne: Wow. You know, I would have to say, um, I'm still, um, kind of like floating off of, uh, a cycling event that I, that I did, um, not too long ago where, um, I actually rode from Boston to New York over three days, so 275 miles.
DC: Um, wow. Wow.
Reginald Osborne: You know, for, um, for the LGBTQ Center here in New York, it's um, uh, annual ride that they do in September where, um, all of the proceeds go towards supporting all of the, um, efforts that they have to support people who are living with H I V or who have aids. And so, you know, it was one, definitely a physical endurance.
But two is also very mental because, you know, I was riding for, um, the people that I either knew or had lost throughout my life for, you know, to HIV and aids, and then also, you know, friends that I know who are living, you know, thank God today, it's not like the, the death sentence that it was before. Yep.
But, you know, you now have the resources in the Martin medicine to live a full and healthy life, uh, if you're HIV positive, but, you know, it's a very important cause. But, you know, wow. What, what a uh, what a, you know, a, a great feeling when you are saying, you know, I actually was able to kind of endure the, the, the physical challenge and the mental challenge, and it definitely is a mind over matter once you get to the last 75 miles.
LT: Well, I know I have friends who are really close friends who are cyclists and you know, they talk about a century. Right? That's a hundred riding, riding a hundred miles.
Reginald Osborne: Yeah.
LT: And doing that in a day, that's really hard. So basically to do three of those in consecutive days, that sounds, that's bad. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I meant.
Right? Like, that sounds crazy. And I think in some ways, as you were alluding to the mental part of that and, and the whole, the full persona of giving all that back, it is something you should be really proud of. That's really cool.
DC: Absolutely. Wow. Impressive Reg. Yes. Impressive. Impressive.
Reginald Osborne: Thank you.
DC: All right, LT.
LT: All right, so we're going to the next section, reginal. Now this is What's Popping. What's Popping, D?
DC: What's popping!
LT: All right, Reginald, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or Simply Air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. And Reginald, I know you've got a really good topic for us. So yours.
Reginald Osborne: Well, as we all know, it's June and that's Pride Month. Right. And, you know, it's the opportunity for brands, marketing companies to, you know, reach out and demonstrate their commitment to the LGBTQ community. And, you know, I think, um, I think, but, um, in one of your, your, your previous podcast, you kind of touched on the whole issue around Bud Light, right?
LT: Yep.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Reginald Osborne: And, um, you know, the backlash that they've gotten, um, from working with one of the transgender, uh, influencers, uh, Ms. Mulvaney. And then, um, shortly thereafter, there's been the issue with Target. Yep. That's now in the news. And since that Target, um, which has been carrying I think LGBTQ merchandise for the last probably several years now, recently came under fire because they decided to, um, in their stores, push that merchandise to the back of the store.
Right. To avoid having confrontation with angry customers that would threaten the safety of their employees. So, um, two very topical issues right now, I think for me, um, one of the biggest challenges, uh, cuz I, I think, uh, in the podcast, you, you, you, when you were talking about, but like, you know, there was this thing about, well, what does the brand stand for?
Right. Yep. What is their brand purpose? And I think in both cases, you know, I believe Bud Light said, you know, we really just want to be more inclusive and have everybody sit at the table over a beer, right? Um, mm-hmm. Target. When you think about Target and even their, their iconic, um, branding, um, trademark symbol Target is about being very precise in terms of delivering the goods and services to their potential, to their market in terms of the consumers that come through their store.
They also want to be precise in terms of being relevant, in terms of what's going on in the world. I think both of those brands have purpose, but what happened is they misread the climate, they misread the climate of what's going on in terms of the issues in the LGBT community. And that is, there are two things that are happening.
One is. Overall more younger, particularly more younger consumers are shopping with the conscious, right? They want to buy brands or buy from brands that align with their values. Right? And the second thing that's happening, I think is this movement of people that want brands actually to take a take a side.
And in that case, I think that's what you saw, the C and, and the big issue now in the L G B T community is really that around the rights of transgender, which really has this company, this country divided, right? Yep. You know, and you've got, um, a lot of states now, um, that are issuing and have in some cases these anti.
L G B T Q, um, legislation. Yep. In the face of this, that, you know, this controversy and division over the rights for transgender, because these companies have been supporting, bud Light has not been a stranger to supporting L G B T Q over the years. They've had pride cans for probably the last decade or so.
Yeah, yeah. Again, Target has had it as well. Right, right. So what's different now is that transgender rights, it's, it's become almost a culture war, right?
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: And I think now we're at this apex where brands can no longer not afford to sit and be neutral. They have to actually activate their purpose. So if we go back to the conversation and said, well, I just simply want everybody to sit down and have a beer over the table.
Well, if that's your invitation to be inclusive of everyone, then stand by it.
LT: Yep.
DC: Ah, yeah, yeah.
Reginald Osborne: Standby it. That's the activation of the purpose. Yep. If I'm, if, if I'm targeted and I'm here to make an environment comfortable for everyone to shop in, particularly when I'm selling goods to serve goods, durable goods in food that they could buy at Walmart, then what is my point a difference?
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: If I am making that, then stand by it. And so, you know, I, I think it was, um, Bill Burnbach that said, you know, a principal is not a principal unless it costs you something.
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: And in this case, you know, the only thing that is probably costing them are a few angry people, because I think by and large, the majority of the marketplace is not upset.
Mm-hmm. But I think what they're not realizing is that if they have to look at where the business is gonna come from in the, um, the future. I, you know, in, in, in DC I know you like threes. I want to throw out, you know, uh,
DC: I love, I love my threes brother, I love my threes.
Reginald Osborne: So culturally, if we look at the fact, same-sex marriage, over 70% of Americans support same-sex marriage, right?
And then we also look at the fact that, um, the, the L G B T Q population, the youth, the millennials, I think it was what, 11% identified as being a part of the L G B T Q population with Gen Z, it's now up to 20%. Mm-hmm. And then
DC: 20%?
Reginald Osborne: 20%. And then when you further start to look at the fact that out of those, um, millennials and Gen Zs, many of them prefer gender neutrality versus binary terms. Mm-hmm. So hence, you know why we are now identifying with our pronouns.
LT: Right.
DC: Mm.
Reginald Osborne: So this is a, this is a seismic shift in attitudes and beliefs among a younger audience, and not to mention those that are allies of these audiences. Mm. So if you start to go back to brands have to have an emotional connection coupled with the fact that what's really changing is a lot of these consumers, younger consumers, are shopping with a conscious
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: Right? They want to feel like they're connected to something that they believe in.
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: And that believes in them on top of the fact that it's becoming much more, um, multicultural in the sense of the other intersection as I live it, is you've got a large percentage of those L G B T Q that are within the Black and brown community.
LT: Yep.
DC: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Reginald Osborne: So none of this lives, we, we don't live in silos anymore. This is all like interconnected, right? So when you have a brand like Bud Light, which by the way, their sales have been declining even prior to this. Yep. Yeah. As they were trying to find their footing in terms of engaging a new, a younger demographic.
LT: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Reginald Osborne: What is your val brand value to? Does it match with the values of this younger demographic?
DC: Yep. This is good. This is good.
Reginald Osborne: So it's more activating your purpose. You might have a purpose, but do you really activate it? And are you standing by it? Here's the question.
LT: Got it.
DC: LT, your thoughts, brother?
LT: So this is great fodder for discussion. Thank you for, uh, for bringing, for surfacing this Reginald and I agree with your whole premise about companies can't be neutral. And what I'm struck by is think about what's happened with Disney and Florida and all the things that have, that have that have taken place. You know, uh, the quote, don't say gay rule law. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with Reginald here and be really like genuine and authentic. I think DeSantis is a despicable person, um, as, as a person. And so I think he's using what he sees, sees as a wedge issue to just curry favor for him politically and, uh, there's real human beings on the other end. And what's happened is, um, that Disney, when they didn't have, um, when they, when they had their old CEO right? Who really wasn't very strong, um, and didn't know how to handle the situation. You know, that was, it looked like DeSantis could win that fight, so to speak.
But then Bob Iger came back and whatever you think about Bob Iger, he stands for something. They had Pride parades. Now Bob Iger is basically saying, f you dude, this is, we, we know what our brand is for and we're for everyone. And they're standing by it to, to, uh, to Reginald's very point. They are clearly making themselves known, who they are.
And when they say they embrace everyone, they're, they're doing it right. And, and I think that's what you're saying. And, and so you, you have to, You have to, you can't be neutral. I love that. I totally agree with you Reginald. And I'm for standing for everyone. Personally, I wanna say that I don't give a shit who you are, what your sexuality, sexuality is, whether you know where, where you stand.
It doesn't it, it shouldn't affect. It's none of my business and I just have respect for human beings. And I feel like no matter where you stand on the issue, peop we need to have respect for everyone as people. But to your point, Reginald, in 2023 and beyond, especially when it relates to LGTPQ plus, you can't be neutral.
You're gonna have to stand for something. But you also have to know, and this is what the Bud Light folks didn't do, they did not. I think. Um, Put into their, into what they were doing. They didn't understand the calculation of what might come back to them. And they, unlike Nike, which we talked about in, in our, in our, What's Popping about Bud Light, Nike calculated when they did, when they had their Colin Kaepernick ad, they knew they would get shots fired and they embraced it and were ready for it.
And Bud Light wasn't.
Reginald Osborne: You know, and, and the sad thing that they did recently that I, I think probably did more harming than good, is they made a donation, I think of, of probably around $200,000 to the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. And first and foremost, 200, let's start with the number $200,000.
LT: Yeah.
Reginald Osborne: Right. You are the largest beer maker in the, in the world. Right,
LT: Right.
DC: Yeah.
LT: I love your laugh,
Reginald Osborne: You know? So, um, but you know, I I, I go back to, I, I heard your earlier podcast on, um, the conversation around CNN and, and as you were saying, you know, you have to, that's part of CNN's problem, right?
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: They don't stand for anything. Right. Right, right. And I, I, I thought about, uh, one of the, I was a big Game of Thrones fan, and, and one of the lines in the movie, I don't, I don't know if you s if you watched it, but, um, there was this, this, this one elder of one of the houses, um, I think it was Tagarean she said, if you are a dragon, then God damnit be a dragon.
Dragon.
DC: Ah, yeah. That's a hell of a quote.
Reginald Osborne: You have to be whatever it is that you're going to be.
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: Particularly as the, the shifts in culture are pushing people to choose because you know a lot of what's going on in the world today. Is there's a lot of doubling down Yep. In, in camps. And in some cases, you know, like, like they said, like Fox made a a definitive decision, we are going to represent the right wing.
LT: Yep.
DC: Mm-hmm.
LT: Yep.
Reginald Osborne: And so people are very clear as to what it is that I'm buying and who I'm buying into and how it reflects me and what my values are. Mm, exactly.
DC: Alright. Um, Reg, when you reached out to me and, um, said, Hey, we, we, we, we need to chop this thing up. I was, um, I was elated like right away. We, Jade already had the schedule lined up.
We had other folks and I said, Hey, we gotta get Reg on and it needs to be now. He said, uh, we, it needs to be soon. So I'm really glad that, uh, that you're here and we're having
this discussion.
LT: Me too.
DC: You said Reg and I agree with you by the way. Understand your purpose. Understand your purpose, and then stand by that. Yeah. If you say this is your purpose, then stand by it. And for Bud Light and Budweiser, I hadn't heard Arti articulated what you said about, we all just want to ha uh, ha have a conversation over a beer. Mm-hmm. Sit down at, at, at a, at the metaphorical or physical table and talk about things and have a beer.
That Reg, I believe, is a strategy.
Reginald Osborne: Mm-hmm.
DC: And a sustainable strategy, because I bet that is somewhere in the, uh, in InBev or Anheuser-Busch values mission, people coming together over beer. I bet it's there somewhere. I don't know, but I bet it's there somewhere. What I think happened with, uh, with Miss, uh, Mulvaney is that they got caught up in a tactic.
Yeah. It got caught up in a tactic and did not fully articulate the strategy. So now let me give a framework for us to think about this cuz this happens in, in, in life in societies across thousands of years. These are the steps that happen around change. First is something nascent, very small de minis even.
The next is, is, is it picks up steam. There's some disruption that happens, enough for people to pay attention to. Like, oh wow. The third thing is there's some sustainable change. It's like, oh, okay, this is happening. And uh, and then finally it's scale. It's everywhere. We just, we just, we got, it's here. It ain't going nowhere.
It's scale. So let's go, let's use a brand exam. Apple, you, you gave Apple as your favorite, uh, brand. You fell in love with. Nascent, you said context as well. When the iPhone came out, the number one phone at the time was the Molar Roller Star, Star Trek phone. I don't know, maybe it wasn't called flip phone, but it was a flip phone. Flip Phones were the thing.
LT: Razor, right?
DC: Yeah. Oh, Razor. Oh, razor. That's right. Razor. Thank you. Yeah. Alright. Okay, so, so the iPhone was a nascent thing in the context of mobile devices. Then as it started to pick up a little bit, this notion of smartphones became disruptive to what was already there.
Smartphones, cause we going from flip phones, smart disruption. Then. Then is it, as this thing started to scale, it's like, oh, oh wow. Okay. This thing called a smartphone. It's sustainable. Mm-hmm. This is a sustainable, I can now go away from my flip phone or if I want to keep it again and I can go to this thing called a smartphone and I'm gonna get done what I want to get done.
And then the final step is now you got apps and ecosystem. This can go with my computer and my music and all that. Now you got scale. Alright? Mm-hmm. So that, those were the steps that Apple went through and it was strategic. Now let me give you another example. I'm not gonna give you the brand, but let's go ahead.
Nascent step outcast. These, these, these folks over here, they a bunch of outcasts. Disruption, okay? Uh, man, we feel alone over here and we think we can do this alone. Mm-hmm. So we just going to disrupt some stuff. We can do this alone. Sustainable change. We are gonna build, we we're gonna build out some things here around this place and then scale.
The idea, we, this idea of who we are can not only be good for us, it can be good for the world Brand Nerds. That's America, that's the story of America. Mm-hmm. Those are the steps they went through. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's the, okay, so, so, but Light and Miss Mulvaney, they are at the disruption stage. We still got some ways to go.
Mm-hmm. We got some ways to go. So don't allow a misstep on a tactic to subvert a strategy that Reg just said. So that, that's what's popping for me on this. That's my reaction Reg.
Yeah. I
Reginald Osborne: mean, I, I think in the same thing for, for Target, right? Um, conversely, like for example, target is, I think number three, Walmart is, is number two. Maybe Amazon's number one in terms of like retailers, right? Mm-hmm. Um, Walmart carries pride, um, paraphernalia as well. They did not put it at the back of the store. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, understanding, I think to your point, okay, so we had a tactical era. Right. But yeah. Let's go back to our mission because the world is changing.
Are we in step with where culture is going? The number one tour right now that everybody's talking about around the world is who? Beyonce.
DC: Beyonce. Oh, beyonce. Oh, oh, that's right. Beyonce. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Reginald Osborne: Renaissance tour, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now talk about strategy as an artist. Cause I know we like to talk about pop culture.
At the center of her music is a large homage that she's paid to Black queer people and musicians.
DC: Absolutely.
Reginald Osborne: From house music to Larry Lavan to Yes. Um, uh, I forget, uh, the, uh, the transgender gender neutral artists, but a lot of people that are on the outside of that don't, are not even aware of that.
Like, that's part of the culture movement. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And as an artist, probably the most still popular or global artist right now. It I'm sure it was a calculated decision. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. No doubt. Um, and what, that's really making a statement about the ability to like move culture by leveraging a lot of the creativity and the insights from, uh, communities that have been marginalized.
Yeah. And that's only gonna continue. Right. So I think, you know, that's kind of to me, like the lesson that a lot of the. Brands probably need to be aware of like this whole issue around transgender, is that just at the peak really of how this younger generation views gender identity?
LT: Yep.
DC: Yeah, yeah.
Reginald Osborne: You know, and, and if you can't get comfortable with that, then you're not gonna be able to align with your new consumer base.
DC: Uh, fully agree. Reg, I want add something here, but we gonna say anything else? Gonna add something?
Reginald Osborne: No, I'm good.
DC: Yeah. Alright. So we, we, we look at things on brand, on, on the brand Beats and Bites podcast through the lens of a brand. Mm-hmm. All right. And culture and, and, and, and technology. That's where the beats is the culture piece Reg. Um, on August 23rd of this year, the world is going to celebrate the 50th anniversary of hip hop. It's amazing. Mm-hmm. It's amazing. It is. It is the most pervasive culture, um, cohesion in the world on the planet. But it wasn't always that way. No, it wasn't always that. As you said, it was came out of a marginalized community. Yep. Black and brown folks, not far from where you are now. Reg in, uh, in New York City.
LT: Nope.
DC: Sprite, the first major brand to begin to go in the area of hip hop and then fully embrace it. Okay. Sprite brand. Sprite brand was at the CocaCola Company. Reg. I can guarantee you that if we had all the same data and all the same people and talent inside the company outside and we'd gone in and we said, you know what?
We think we ought to try this repositioning with Coca-Cola. They, they would've, they would've bounced us out of the company in milliseconds. Alright. Here is my point, Reg, Larry, and Brand Nerds, is that when you are going into areas where you are being first nascent and then disruptive and then, uh, starting to be, uh, uh, sustainable and you're changing in scale, you better make sure you're picking the right brand.
You Yeah. You, you better make sure you're picking the right brand. If you, if you want to do, it's cool to do it, it's cool to do it. But we would've never been able to do that on Coke, y'all. No. And, and, and I don't fault Coke for that. I don't, I don't fault Coke brand Coke. I mean, Coca-Cola classic wouldn't have been able to do it. All right. Any, any, any more, uh, on this guys for
LT: I just wanna add one quick thing. I think what you said, D, is huge and I think what you're saying is cuz Bud Light was their Coca-Cola Classic. That's what you're saying.
DC: That's right.
LT: And, you know, the brand team, I've forgotten the woman's name, and that's where I think Reginald was going. Her heart was in the right place. She understood absolutely that the, the, the, the young millennials, gen Z, they're going in places. They don't, they don't give a rip about any of this stuff. And she knew that she had to appeal to legal drinking age, uh, uh, and upwards into their twenties. But you also, when you're, when you're, that's your point. When you're, when you're on a big brand like that, you've got to calculate the full side of that. Yeah. So if you are gonna do that, and even though they saw it as a little tactic, you've gotta let folks know, because all these big companies are incredibly risk averse. And so, you know, if you're gonna lean in, you gotta let everybody know that, that they're fully behind you or not. That's the reality of it.
Reginald Osborne: And the fact that, again, the last thing that you said, Larry, risk adverse. In other words, it's, it's not about not taking a risk, it's about taking a calculated risk. Right. Yeah. Agreed. Because if you don't take a risk, as they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Yeah.
DC: Agreed.
LT: Oh, this is good.
DC: Oh yeah. This is, this is damn Reg. Thank you. Yes.
Reginald Osborne: No, thank you. Thank you. This is a, this is been a, a very, very enriching conversation, man. I, I'm like, I, I've been listening to your, to you guys' podcast. I was like, you know, I gotta go back and listen to all of them. Like, this is some good,
LT: I love it. It, it has been enriching. That's a great word to use. And we're, we're gonna go to the show close now. Uh, Reginald to where DC and I posit our learnings and, uh, and, and I, I, I start off because mine are, uh, mine are easy and DC connects the dots. Um, but I've got five great ones though. And I'm gonna lead off with authenticity of a person is power to quote Reginald Osborne. And live your life boldly and audaciously as you are. Brand Nerds, if there's one learning you could get from this, that's it. But I got four other great ones. Uh, using Reginald's, dad, quoting Henry Ford. Nothing happens until a sale is made. Is that, that's the quote, but the key point, as a marketer, you better make sure that this is top of mind if you're gonna be a great marketer, cuz it, cuz it segues into, did it make the cash register ring?
That's the next one. My fourth one is, Uh, Reginald views Gary, when it's possible. Like Gary as a leader or a manager, you should provide immediate feedback to the folks that you are managing. It's really great in the moment. And then the last one is Reginald. That goes to a lot of what the conversation we've had is embrace being uncomfortable in uncomfortable situations. Those are my five.
DC: Great. Those are great. Well read, you know, brother, if you've listened to one or more podcasts, you know what the, at this time I try to do my best at understanding and articulating who, and I love your laugh, too. Uh, Reg Larry said that earlier. Yes, too. Who, who, who, who is this soul in front of us? Who, who, who is this person when, uh, when this soul finishes its matriculation on this, uh, on this earth? What will they have left behind for others to go? Oh yeah, that, that Reginald Osborne was that he gave us these things. So I'm gonna attempt to do that for you now and, um, listening to all of your experience, I have a moniker for you, uh, Reginald Osborne. And my moniker is You Are The Trifecta. The Trifecta. And I'm gonna take it back. And I didn't know I'd be making this connection to an example I led, uh, uh, made earlier. You are literally life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And you do that through three Cs.
You've done this through three Cs. C number one is your curiosity. You looking at that Right On magazine and being curious about what Tom Burrell was saying about advertising, you were curious about that. You, you hearing about Spike DDB but not, not having heard of a Spike DDB. You were curious about it and you did it and you have had that curiosity pervade your life. That's the first C.
The second C Reg is community. Community, right? You wanted to be a part of the advertising community. You wanted to advance the multicultural community. You wanted to advance the LGBTQ plus community. Communities are important to you, Reg. Once you have identified your community, you want to advance it not just for you, but for others. But there must be a community for you.
And the third is courage. The third is courage. Bringing your full self into your career career, saying the things that need to be said at the time they need to be said. Um, standing up for others. This curiosity, community and courage, those are your three Cs. That's your trifecta. And I believe that you as a result of using the, employing these three Cs are able to have life, liberty, and pursue happiness.
Reginald Osborne: Wow.
DC: That's what I've taken away from you, brother.
LT: How about that?
Reginald Osborne: Uh, drop the mic and walk away. Cause I, I love every bit of that summation and I've taken notes and I'm like, the next coaching session I have with my coach, I said, I've got it all figured out. I'm, I'm ready for my bio. I mean, you know, my, my, my autobiographical that, that's, that's great DC I mean, I, I, I could not agree in the articulation of it, uh, so succinctly. Um, I appreciate that.
DC: Welcome, brother. We appreciate you.
LT: Big time. So, before we leave, uh, Dr. Anything you wanna share? Any learnings or anything you wanna posit?
Reginald Osborne: You know, I, I think that, um, wow. You know, I. Think just hearing again what DC just said, you know, you never realize like how impactful, um, some of the things you may take for granted that you have done.
LT: Right.
Reginald Osborne: And, um, and a, a much clearer, I think, perspective one, what, um, your North Star could be. Mm-hmm. Should, you know, based upon what, what you may have done. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I, I, I think it's just been a very, um, great dialogue. Um, full, well-rounded, just the way that I love conversations to be, uh, and very spontaneous in terms of like, thoughts and, and the gems that I, I've heard you say. Um, and hopefully I've left a few myself.
LT: Oh, you have, have you have? Yeah. I, I think that, I think that's a wrap. I think, uh, we really go to the close here, Brand Nerds. Thanks so much for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes recorded virtually on Zoom in a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM radio and worldwide at kzsu.org.
The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin Larry Tamen Haley Cobbin Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro
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