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MOVIES VS. CAPITALISM explores the politics of your favorite films through an anti-capitalist lens. Each episode, hosts Rivka and Frank are joined by a guest for a critical discussion about a film and how it’s obviously a scathing indictment of late-stage capitalism.
MVC examines the crucial intersection between pop culture and politics — unpacking the ideological messages baked into some of your favorite movies.
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Movies Versus Capitalism. This is a podcast where we look at movies from an anti-capitalist lens. I'm Rivka
And I'm Frank. And Riv, we're right between the Super Bowl and Valentine's Day, and I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm just getting, like, demolished from both sides to, like, be the most consumer that I could possibly be. Like, right now.
I feel like I've been doing a pretty good job of dodging it all. How?
I'm, I've never, I've just never been in the Super Bowls, like, I, like could barely knew until someone told me yesterday.
Oh, sure. I mean, and for the record, I also don't give a shit about the Super Bowl. Uh, I just, I just, I just [00:01:00] mean culturally.
Yeah, I mean, I just think probably by the nature of your gender, maybe the algorithm shoots more at you because algorithms are definitely probably gender biased.
Sure, although I've trained my algorithms to know that I, I don't care about sports. Don't even bother with them.
so wait, so let me ask first, did you watch the Super Bowl? Okay.
established I was at the gym,
Got it. Well, I did watch maybe like the first ten minutes. Um, I was over at my family's. It was my dad's birthday.
Oh, that's right! Happy
yeah. Happy birthday!
to Tom, if you're listening.
We've established Tom listens.
we, we have.
And Tom, happy birthday.
yeah, so they had the game on when it started, so I caught a little bit of it.
I just was It's just such a bummer watching an event like the Super Bowl and I feel the same way when I go into like a big box store these days, like a Target or something, where I just feel like I'm just getting barraged by advertisements and just like all of the corporate tie ins. Where it's [00:02:00] just like, different celebrities promoting different brands in different ways, and there was this whole, like, Spongebob Squarepants tie in with the entire Super Bowl, so like, the whole Spongebob crew were on screen here and there.
it's just like, how many brands, how many corporate entities can get together to just fuck your face with advertisement for like, five minutes? Five hours, is what it feels like to me.
I'm just, I was just thinking, I know I've mentioned this before, but having the radical experience of being able to go to Cuba and just the first time I was like, this is what it feels like to not be face fucked by advertisements.
And I, yeah, it was life changing. It felt it was the best. It was so, such a relief, a relief I didn't know I needed.
So
yeah, I can't imagine. That sounds so, that sounds so freeing. but I don't really actually know what happened with the game, I don't really care. We don't, we're not here to talk about that, but, uh, we are gonna talk about Taylor Swift. because she was arguably the most important part of the game last [00:03:00] night.
much to the chagrin of, I don't know, I guess, like, conservatives, Republicans, people who generally don't like Joe Biden,
And let's be clear, she was probably one of the biggest advertisements there,
just to clarify.
her very presence advertising herself and her new album coming later this year.
the Poets Locker Club or something?
yeah, some shit like that. but yeah, I, I mean, found this whole Taylor Swift controversy. If you want to even call it a controversy. It's just, it just felt like Another very hollow, empty, culture war, bullshit, argument thing between the left and the right, It's so sad because it's such a waste of time and
What a stupid fucking distraction.
Fuck all of that. I mean, if you were, if you even give a fli I'm speechless because I'm like, how do you even articulate there's a genocide happening without just saying that over and over? Who could even stomach [00:04:00] to really sit through and talk about the Super Bowl as if it's that fucking important right now? It's just,
And that the thing that ruined it for some people was Taylor Swift. You know
what I mean?
not even, yeah, you're right, not even thinking about what's happening in Gaza right now, moving right past that and being like, you know what the big problem with the Super Bowl is tonight?
That Taylor Swift is there. That's our big problem that we all need to talk about. so I did a little bit of research into this because I was like, why are, why are conservatives so angry at her right now? And, basically, the genesis was a New York Times report in late January that Biden was seeking Taylor Swift's endorsement, uh, which is, you know, that's what our presidential candidates do is seek celebrity endorsements, and it just absolutely infuriated.
Uh, you know, conservatives, republicans, right wingers, a lot of whom were fans of Taylor because her roots are in country music before she really became like a global pop star, and then of course, you know, her boyfriend, and.
Travis Kelce, because he is the football player, and, her [00:05:00] presence in the game as this potential Biden's, government psyop,
Americana,
like the documentary about her.
you would think that, you would think she would be embraced wholeheartedly, you know, just, it has football player and cheerleader vibes, but and to be clear, Taylor has not said that she's going to endorse Biden, so it's just the very possibility of Taylor's, you know, liberal political credentials, as limited as they are, entering into this sphere of like pure competition and sportsmanship that should not be infiltrated by politics, even though the U.
S. military pays for advertisements and flyovers regularly, so yeah, just felt like a bunch of bullshit.
think if there's anything else to add to this conversation for people who maybe haven't been following the annoyance that is this moment for Taylor Swift is also just it's not just, I don't care about her personality becoming evidently annoying or being perceived as annoying because that's I could imagine that if I was to ever become [00:06:00] well known in that level, like, I would probably be perceived as really annoying.
Sometimes I listen to this podcast and I'm like, that's an annoying person.
I was gonna say I'm probably annoying right now without that level of fame or money.
So, the personality stuff aside, she has a dangerous carbon footprint. Her amount of power just by being such a piece of capitalism that she is and holding the power as like being like a walking advertisement Makes her just dangerous and being that she is
Her being is actually a threat to like our climate, her team went ahead and decided to take action against threatened, legally threatened Jack Sweeney, who's a junior at the University of Southern Florida, who's been providing social media updates on takeoffs and landings of Her personal jet, which is, Exactly, like a really frickin [00:07:00] awesome thing to do,
this is all publicly available flight information But her team is arguing that this information quote has no legitimate interest in or public need for this information other than to stalk, harass, and exert dominion and control over Taylor.
Which actually means maybe they perceive some kind of threat there, or they're just petty as fuck. Either way, it's kind of odd you would draw attention to it. Cause it didn't put her in a good, everyone's like, leave him, like you're bullying a college student.
that's all, that's the spin game, baby, you know? It's, it's, it's, it's not someone reporting on Taylor's carbon footprint. It's, someone harassing her and trying to dox her regularly so that,
yeah.
and hurt her. that's
what it is.
It's just
I guess the idea was maybe we can hold on to some of the Swifties and make them, it's only going to look worse. You're only drawing attention to this issue.
I mean, I gotta imagine that there have been some Swifties who have seen a lot of this behavior over the last few weeks, months, and been like, Oh, maybe, maybe I'm growing out of this.
But [00:08:00] most of the discourse has been about the personality and how vulgar and strange. I mean, we didn't talk about the Grammys, but at the Grammys, she came on stage and used it as like a moment to advertise her new album 13th Grammy. And then, you know, all you could see all the other artists were so upset about that.
And while it was cringey, for sure. I think it was actually like a moment of lifting the veil. She's just like, so
off moment.
it was mask off. It was like, yeah, this is what, this is a giant ad campaign. And she forgot for a second that you were supposed to pretend it was really like about the art.
Yeah, all of this is, has just been another reminder to me, in that we should not look to or depend on our celebrities to do anything that we want them to do. Because first and foremost, celebrities like Taylor Swift, they exist in a class to and of themselves. You know, not only are they extraordinarily wealthy, they're [00:09:00] also extraordinarily famous. So they hold this cultural cachet. for them to do the things that we as leftists, as socialists, as progressives, whatever, whatever, the bare fucking minimum, for them to do the things that we want them to do, threatens their class position.
So, we just need to stop expecting anything out of these people. I mean, if they do something great, otherwise, we should not look to them at all. Although it is a bummer because there is, there could be some utility to this, cultural elite class Like, I was talking to a buddy recently about, because the Super Bowl was coming up, about what would it be like if all of the NFL players got together and were like, We're gonna stop playing, we're going on strike until, the U. S. Congress does, Transformational campaign finance reform, you know?
it's a fun thought experiment. I would never expect it, but
it's, I mean, it's so natural for us to grasp, grasp at those ideas. I do it all the time. You know, because it's really still, we're still learning and trying to figure out what,[00:10:00] real true worker power and solidarity looks like. And just like even with a group of NFL players It's like I don't think like as i'm trying to figure out this structural stuff I just there's something that it's not enough, you know at where they are in the role they play
No, you're right There's always gonna there's gonna be institutional opposition. There needs to be like organizational infrastructure, you know all of that. It's you're right It's not as it's not as simple as flipping a switch and being like well the NFL players want health care
now So now you got to give it to everyone.
we have hero stories and those are all this, that's the structure we know. So it's like natural for our brains to crave and desire that. And we're constantly fighting it and trying to dissect it and battle it. And that's part of what we do here. On movies versus capitalism.
that's very true Speaking of, we should get to our conversation today about our Valentine's Day movie, 27 Dresses. But before we do, we just want to let our audience know that this podcast is brought to you by The Lever, a reader supported investigative news outlet.
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Alright, we're gonna take a break, but we'll be right back with our conversation about 27 Dresses with Erika Baton.
today we have joining us one of my favorite people on the planet, Erica Bitton. Am I? My favorite people on the planet and I always pronounce your last name incorrectly. Am I saying it
Everyone does. It's it's [00:12:00] Baton.
I thought, I knew the correct pronunciation. I knew it was
Yeah.
you did?
But like when I first met you, which we'll, which we'll get into. I, so I always have Bitton like in
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone. Everyone.
Baton
They'll like,
yeah, at my funeral, they'll all be saying bitten.
is a performer and writer currently living in Los Angeles. She is performing her solo show Vacuum Girl. Vacuum Girl is a one hour live performance in which Erica performs the entire script of her TV show while simultaneously scoring the piece with lights and sound. It has been getting so, so many great things have been said about it.
I haven't seen it yet, but I just know that everybody who sees it is like, you have to run to see this show immediately. I'm trying to bring it to New York so I don't have to fly out to LA to see it, but it's gonna happen.
Bring
tell us a bit about, Just your like the process of what is it about and how is it going?
Where are you performing it?
it's going [00:13:00] well. Is that the first question? It's going well. I'm doing it. Um, it's It's so fun. I'm two years in. right now I do it at the Elysian in LA. and I got to do it at Redcot this summer, which was amazing. And it's, uh, it's cool because it started as like a literal attempt at pitching a show I wrote.
And so I like the first time I did it was in a warehouse or like a storefront that I rented a bunch of chairs and just shoved a bunch of people that love me in there and was like, let's see if this works. And, I'm like still doing it and I definitely want to come to New York and do it for you there.
that's the goals. But right now I'm just like enjoying every time I get to do it and, and like praying that I get to keep doing it and possibly do it more than I get to do it.
Yes, you got to the point which I was trying to ask, and forgive me, I do have COVID, so I have a bit of a
What? You have COVID?
What did
well
I'm so
three or four, it's,
you
know what [00:14:00] I mean, like at this point I'm, I'm fine, I'm just quarantined and a little
You're very good looking with COVID.
Thank you, thank you, I try. But you got to the point we talk, we've been talking a lot with, uh, creators who are doing anti capitalist filmmaking, and now we get to dive into some theater work with you because, as you started to say, you initially wrote this to be a pilot, and can you talk a bit about, like, the genesis of how it then became this one woman show, and the, like,
The
reasons for that.
would love to hear, as someone who wrote a lot of television scripts, I would love to hear about, yeah, like, where the idea came to then turn this into this, like, conceptual theater piece.
Well, basically I, I have been, I had been writing this show for years and I couldn't ever really It just, the concept of it kept getting away from me and I kept being like, nevermind it doesn't work and I'll just waitress. but anyways, once I finally got a handle on [00:15:00] like, oh, I think I know what it is, I, here's the pilot, I know what it is.
I had a friend of mine, um, who's like in the biz, and I'm very much not in the biz. Like I've never had an agent, any audition I've had is cause like someone saw me in something and they called their cousin or whatever. So I, he was like, we're going to meet, I'm going to set you up on meetings with like people and you're going to send your pilot out to them.
And I've I've been like tangential to the business long enough to know that like. I wasn't, I've been told so many times, so many things, right? Like you're not really the lead. We don't really know what ethnicity you are. You're, you're now too old for this, but you're too young for this. And if only you spoke Farsi and blah, blah, blah.
So I was like, and I've been told, like, you know, as we all are is like, what's your social media, how many followers you have, like, are you famous? And I was none of those things. [00:16:00] So I just realized like, Oh, this thing that I wrote from my guts, that is definitely me that has to play this role. If I sent it out to a bunch of people, if for some reason it got made, they bought it, they liked the idea.
It would be so, it was just impossible for me to think that they would let me. Be the lead character and have full creative control because I don't have a following I'm not famous and I'm not like I don't have like a crazy IMDB blah blah blah So I was like cancel those meetings, bro I do know how to do one thing really well Which is get on stage in front of a bunch of people and I'm like the campaigner in Myers Briggs You know, so I'm like very like I'm ready But anyways, so I was like, I know how to get in front of a bunch of people, like I'm a trained theater actor, like, let's go. And it just became my, I don't know. I wanted to control everybody's [00:17:00] way of taking in my story. And I didn't want to leave anybody any space to imagine a movie star or, uh, you know, like, a woman that is not.
Sephardic Jewish Moroccan, you know, muddy kind of mutt, not muddy, mutt. So anyways, yeah, it, it felt really scary, but the night I got home after the first show, it felt like the most punk rock thing I had ever done, and I, like, cried. I was like, this is so much more fulfilling, like, even if I don't sell this show, like, I feel like I have my own back in a way that I've been told I couldn't, and I was like, I do now, bitch, so yeah.
uh huh, uh huh, uh
It's so inspiring and it's so important to hear examples of that and I can, again, like I said, I'm seeing it working, I'm seeing your vision come to fruition but that's like a big deal to be like, you know what, I'm actually going to, I mean, it's anti capitalist to be like, I'm going to say no to the incentive of that system which is Make a bunch of [00:18:00] money if someone buys it, even if it means I don't get to follow through with my artistic visions,
my my guts, my soul, like, I will just say yes and hope for the next, the next imagined journey.
Maybe this will get me to the next place, that like, illusion, and go on and do this thing because ultimately, You said yes to yourself and yes to that project. It doesn't solve the fact that like there's not necessarily any health care or
mm,
know
yeah,
that comes along with it, but like fucking it make it's brave as fuck.
It is punk rock I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud to know you and for that
example
It's also super fucking cool, Erika, that like, you're Because I think a lot of people in that position, you know, you have this TV show idea, you want to do it the way that you want to do it, the next thing that someone would usually do, especially in LA, is be like, alright, well then I guess I'll pay to produce the pilot, which is this enormous endeavor that costs so much money and I, that's so cool that you [00:19:00] were like, no, no, no, no.
My roots are in my theatrical training and my love for being on stage and my love for theater. I'm going to synthesize this story with what I know that I'm good at and what I'm, what I love. Yeah, that's not the normal route that someone would take, so it's so cool and I'm echo everything that Rivka says.
It's so awesome. It's awesome.
Well the other options too, which I think Speak to the themes of this film, which we'll get into it's like, oh, I'll then change myself to fit in to all to that Narrative that you were taught I'll spend all the money to fit change myself to fit than it which we're seeing more and more like strikingly younger and younger people changing the shape of their
Actual bone structure And
skin
like, you
brand new. Yeah. I was told by like a pretty huge casting director, when I was like in my mid twenties, to take out a loan so that I could get a personal trainer and, and lose you, right? Like a bunch of weight and get really ripped. And she said, [00:20:00] you need to take lessons on how to contour your face.
to be a different shape. And this is like a huge casting director who like, and saw me as an actress and was like, I think you're really good. Unfortunately you like, you have to take out a bunch of money. And I fucking took the loan out from my aunt and I spent it on like movies and food with friends.
Like I couldn't, you know, I was like, yes, I'm going to do it. I'm going to
turn myself into a, and then I just like, it wasn't in me. So I think that like I also had working for me the sort of fatigue. You know, like, uh, being like 30, I think I was like 32 when I first started this and it was like, I was pissed.
I was pissed that this is where we're at. I was pissed that I was already aging out of whatever and, and it, and being pissed sort of fueled me to be like, suck my D, F everyone. Am I allowed to curse on this podcast?
Curse as much as you want. Yeah.
Okay, cool. Cause that, [00:21:00] well, so yeah, and it, and it's cool cause like I, I'm grateful to hear that it's anti capitalist because I feel like it didn't, I didn't know that's what was happening. I just knew that I was in a corner and my brain came, my brain or my heart or my whatever was like, let's get you out of this corner in this way.
And, um, yeah, I like am exhausted and very broke all of the time and it's exhausting and you do it all by yourself and you lug all the equipment and you beg everyone to come and it can feel like. You know, God, will someone just like pluck me up and give me a bunch of money? But when you get on stage and you do the thing, I leave that theater like, oh, I actually don't care.
Like, that sounds great to have health care, or like, you know, fancier, whatever, like gas in my car, or whatever people are using their money for.
Mm hmm.
But I, you know, something, it feeds something in you that makes you like, oh, it's never been about that, and it's [00:22:00] okay
Well, I, this is a good segue to the movie that we're going to talk about, but I also do want to talk about just, I was going to mention how Eric and I met each other cause it does feel like someone should write a rom com about this. Perhaps it will be us, but we know each other because my high school. Boyfriend who of course was the person that I thought I was going. I was like, you know It's the first time you fall in love you're like i'm gonna marry this person and have their child It's all the things And so that didn't happen. But we did do the thing where we were like, we're going to, we're going to do this long distance, even though like you get into college and you're like, yeah, we're going to be in opposite coasts.
we're like, yeah, we'll make this work. Like, absolutely. I mean, I think immediately we got to campuses and we're like, uh, we're all so horny and there's like
Well, yeah, and you're free, and you're like, yeah. But I will say this person who will not say his name, so basically where you were going was that he was your first love in high school, and then he became my best friend in college turned into [00:23:00] my first love. So I hadn't had my first love yet.
So, and I had known about you because when we were best friends for two years, I knew about you. You were his girlfriend turned ex girlfriend, love of his life. You came to visit. You were so hot. You were so cool. You were like a photographer and took pictures and, yeah. And, and we were like, oh my god, he has the coolest girlfriend.
And then we became best friends like
once we graduated college.
yeah. And he kind
of, yeah, yeah. He was out of the picture. And it was like clear to me, I was like, this was the love affair that was meant to,
I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
This is our rom com. But we're not
we're not talking about such a nuanced rom com today. Or pretend maybe we are,
depending on your angle. But,
getting married. Even though
I'm still wanting to get married. So,
okay, then we'll go, we'll go easy on the institution of marriage. this is the first time I ever have seen this movie. Today, we're talking about the Katherine Heigl joint, 27 [00:24:00] Dresses. Directed by Anne Fletcher, written by Aline Brosh McKenna, who is like, oh, like a rom com, comedy heavyweight screenwriter.
She wrote The Devil Wears Prada, so, you know, like, good, like, solid pedigree. this film stars Katherine Heigl, James Marsden, Judy Greer, Ed Burns, and Malin Ackerman. The budget was 30 million, made 162 worldwide. This was a solid hit.
wow.
my mind. I, yeah, and if you've never seen this movie, which I don't recommend, the, the story is, uh, after serving as a bridesmaid in 27 different weddings, matrimony obsessed Jane finds herself in the nightmare scenario of planning the wedding of her younger sister Tess and her boss George, who Jane is secretly in love with. And as the date looms closer, Jane finds herself getting close with the wedding journalist, Kevin?
a marriage cynic, uh, who is secretly writing a feature story about [00:25:00] Jane's experience as a 27 time bridesmaid.
just to give some historical context for the year this came out and was such a hit. Making so much money, wild. The year is 2008. Bush is in his final term in office, and the US economy is facing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. The mortgage market has collapsed, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average has lost 33.
8 percent of its value. General Motors and Ford Motors Lehman Brothers files for bankruptcy. Citigroup, the nation's largest bank is reporting fourth quarter loss for 2007. That approaches $10 billion. Bank of America takes over Countrywide Financial, the largest mortgage lender. Property prices continue to fall in the US and Europe causing hardship for homeowners and financial institutions.
And then of course, Barack Obama is elected president of the United States defeating Republican. John McCain. A few pop culture [00:26:00] references the. Biggest TV show is American Idol, Slumdog Millionaire wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards, and Katy Perry's I Kissed a Girl is topping charts. But it's a, it's an interesting, it's really interesting when you hear that context that this did so well, people were
running out in the midst of this to see 27 Dresses.
I just looked up the actual release date, and it was in January, so like, I guess the, I guess the, the financial crisis hadn't like, fully, fully hit yet,
So, Erica, normally we start by asking, why did you choose this movie to watch? I kind of thrust this movie upon you to watch,
because
You gave me two
options.
watch.
But you did give me
right. What was the other one?
Made in Manhattan.
Yes. I was in the mood, you know, we have, it's, the month of love is upon us, and I felt like we needed to, we needed to discuss it. So why did you pick 27 Dresses?
Out of your two
options.
I Well, [00:27:00] huge Grey's head. Okay? I was a huge Grey's Anatomy fan. So I was like,
give me Katherine Heigl. But I also saw this in the theater. I remember. In college. And I remember fucking loving it. I'm sure that was like you know, I was like, I don't know how old I was like 20 or 19 or something.
I remember it being really like clean and bright and one of those movies where you're like, the apartment's so amazing and she's in New York. And I also think James Marsden in this movie is so hot that he's so hot, right? I'm not, I'm, oh my God. I'm like, just keep the
camera on this man. In his stupid
new balances, but
he's like,
kinda, kinda schlubby. You know, they're like, they dress him down just a little bit to make,
and then you're just like, Oh god, this man is so hot, even in his
dumbass, like, like, baggy jeans and like, blazer hoodie combo looks fucking phenomenal.
I also think, it's so true man, I also think that [00:28:00] I picked it because I remember being re like talking so much shit about it after I first saw it. About the sister especially, so I was like, oh, this, this movie will make me feel
feelings I guess.
Oh, interesting about the, so like about the like relate, like you were
I mean, I'm like, what is this evil sister? Like, this movie, like, she has to, I mean, we'll get to it, but like, I have sisters and I would never in my life, like, if one of my sisters acted the way that this one did, I would call the police.
Yeah, the way she treats Katherine Heigl is depraved at some points.
Absolutely. Well, it's really interesting. You have to like really dig a little bit to be like, wait, who are the actual horrendous people here? And like, while the sister is horrendous, it really is, surprise, surprise, like the men and the patriarchy. But like, they really make an effort to be like, no, like, you're gonna hate these women.
You're gonna hate every woman,
most of the women in this movie. were your like initial feelings than re watching?[00:29:00] Did you
talk the same kind of shit? Did
totally even more. I mean,
my first thing I was like, my first thought, which I can't believe I didn't have when I first saw it was like, is she getting paid for all of these weddings that she's like birthing for these women? it doesn't seem that it's a business. It seems to be set up like she's just the girl, but I'm
like,
uh,
yeah.
And I'm like, first of all, that's. It's so unbelievably expensive, like I've been a bridesmaid twice, I don't ever want to do it again. I think it's like true hell and it, and it's so much money and it's so many like dates to remember and to be the maid of honor and to not be the sister or the best friend, but just this random girl that you know is good at it.
I was just very like, I can't believe we all just bought that without questioning that.
Totally. So that's why I really wanted to talk about I mean, [00:30:00] I just was like this is the perfect film to talk about the marriage-industrial complex, which Similar to the military-industrial complex, it's just a major system creating massive profit while exploiting people's humanity, specifically women, and, but all of us, everyone's being exploited under this system of profit, but I just think, I do think it's really interesting you said like, oh, she's not getting paid.
Mm hmm. paid for it because I have the same memory of like, maybe she's, but this is like pre girlboss because I feel like in the girlboss revisioning of this,
they'd be like, no, she makes a, she makes her own, she's like the boss of this. Like she's wedding plannering it, but like makes a whole thing and they, and you somehow make it better because she's profiting and exploiting other people would be the
reworking of that.
But like, she's not yet, she's not there. I do have to read the statistic just to get us current with where we're at in this. Complex. According to a report by CNN from June of 2023, the average for wedding costs in [00:31:00] 2023 is $29,000 with the number reaching $35000 and over in some major cities and per Zola's new first look report released in 2023 of December, that average number is only going to increase.
In 2024, the average cost of a wedding will tip over 30, 000 with more couples budgeting for events that cost between that baseline and 50, 000.
Oh my god. I'm also reading a statistic that says that the wedding industry in 2022 made roughly 58 billion dollars. this is like Big Pharma, Big Oil,
like we gotta, like we gotta be careful of fucking Big Wedding.
Big Wedding.
Mm
and I think what I love about
this over, because there's a lot of, there's a lot of movies that fall under this like, and we'll probably talk about them again, Wedding Planner, there's the, there's lots of bride fighting movies, but this one, the fact that it's the 27 dresses was such a material factor of like, how much did those actual [00:32:00] wedding dresses cost?
She has the closet full of them, which she holds on to. You talked about the New York real estate, like how
much is the real estate of just holding on
Exactly.
it's like her main storage space in her small New York apartment and she's like, nope, just for dresses. doesn't
Which is also, yeah, which is also like, it's wild because her dream doesn't seem to be, partnership, commitment, love with someone that understands and sees her. Like the real, they're painting this. Thing this woman is like the dream is the wedding the dream is the party The dream is like being the bride being the center of I mean even the sister gets engaged Happily down to get married in like two weeks of knowing this guy and then they're planning it in six It's just so about the wedding.
It's all about the wedding I've never been at a wedding And not felt some, at like, at least one moment, [00:33:00] like, real existential, like, sinking. Like, what the hell are we doing?
like, for, us as like a, like as a species?
Yes. Yeah. I'm like, this is And my brain tends to, like, calculate things. And see like at what an event, you know, and especially weddings where it's like at four o'clock be here Feeling this way at six o'clock be in this area feeling this way Doing this and it's it's just like such an event and it oh I always have a moment or an hour at least of like what the hell is going on
what hath God wrought? One of those. I had never seen this movie before, and it really kind of, it really kind of sets Jane's love of weddings to be, like, pretty farcical, I thought, even from the beginning, like, this is, A deeply broken person who is behaving in an unhinged manner.
the first scene is like, she's a flower girl as a [00:34:00] child and we find out that the wedding was just after her mom passed away. And you know, helping the bride out gave her this joy. So we get, so right at the beginning we're like, this woman is trying to fill a hole in her heart. And then as soon as we are introduced to her as an adult, the first scene is this big set piece where she is She is in two separate weddings on the same night and is shuttling back and forth at night time and is shuttling back and forth between the two of them because she has to attend both, unbeknownst to the other guest, and in both weddings is the person that the bride is like, Jane, you were the number one person in helping put this wedding together.
like, it's so extreme that it shouldn't make sense on paper, and it doesn't really, but like, that, like, this is the level of obsession that we are introduced to right off the bat.
but
I think there's a an identification people have like I think it's so extreme, but I also think like It's not that far off and like it's the reason why nobody questions it in her life And like society doesn't question it and we're not [00:35:00] watching like wow it's weird that no one's questioning it because I think it actually reflects something very real about our society that like This insanity happens all the time, and then if you question it, you're kind of made to look insane.
And I feel a little nervous talking getting real and talking about it, but like, I will say Cause I've I love every the weddings that I've gone to, I really do. But, for example, my partner doesn't always want to go, and there's and I'm not saying There's just like a a questioning of like, is everything okay?
Why why not? And we're like, well because we did the math and we can't afford it.
Like, we literally can't fucking afford it, and It's just a weird that like socially you have to explain that and not the other way around. Do you know what I mean? Like
Mm hmm. Right. Yep. Yeah.
way around.
also I want to say, you're so right to say this and I mean it when I say this, I've also loved all the weddings I've been in, too. I'm not, like, in dread the whole time. Like, once the
dad gives the speech, I'm a mess, I'm crying, and I'm like, marriage forever.[00:36:00]
But I think that, like, being in close proximity to brides and people planning their wedding, I think unless you have, like, so much disposable income, I think the few people in this life who can really throw that kind of, like, upscale, like, checks every Pinterest box wedding and it's actually not a big deal, It's one thing, but like majority of the weddings, like, you know, that like the amount of money and saving and fighting and negotiating and figuring out. And it just like. Yeah, it breaks my heart. Like, I ultimately want, there's that moment always when they say their vows or you see them kiss or you see the dad give the speech where you're like, I get it.
I always, my heart always is like, Oh, I get it. We're just humans and we want to scream that we love somebody and we want everybody to look and it's, [00:37:00] it can be so beautiful, but it kills me like how it can alter the course of your financial life. Like people are choosing these parties. Instead of down payments on home, any travel, whatever, private school, in the future, further, whatever the fuck they want.
no, that's such a good point, because there's just so much pressure from our society on everyone. that's the thing you gotta do, and you gotta do it well, and you gotta do it properly, and you gotta do it big so you don't embarrass me in front of, like, you know, the rest of your family, or my friends, or whatever, and it's I have spoken to people who are like, Yeah, we don't really care, it's just for our parents.
And it's like, that sucks. Like, that, like, we shouldn't have to do anything for anyone else other than ourselves. but I agree with it, like, I, like, I'm pro wedding, the ceremony, the, the, the communal sharing and voicing of love. But it's like, it's the industrial part of it that is
Right.
that is so harmful.
Right, that you know that you're part of a bigger [00:38:00] ecosystem that is, like, ultimately making women feel, deeply horrible pieces of property, like, at its core, still, the industry itself is still so archaic, right, even if you're like, you can do it in ways that are not that, and there's this and that, you're like, it's still, like, the industry is geared towards that, you do not see, and you see this in this movie, like, the men, and, could practically not know something was, like, happening. They don't care, and they're kinda like, Eh, we're over it. Like, the men are not jumping in cabs, throwing 300 at service workers to be like, You go get me this other Like, and it's justified in some way. That's not, and so it's a way of also making women just like minimizing the role of the woman.
From the top, the way Jane is talked about, they're like, There's Van Gogh, and Tiger Woods, and they name all these like, male archetypes, and then they're like,
and then there's Jane, who's really good at weddings.
And I just
The fuckin
like,
of weddings! R
kind of like, it, there's a, there's a unspoken [00:39:00] logic that's really into this movie that makes all of these rom coms work that outside of our culture, like, I don't think any of it would make, it just, it's so dependent on our cultural understanding of this industry that it just wouldn't work in any other way.
It has nothing to do with like, inherent romance. Did you read, um, Trick Mirror by Gia
No.
she has a great, um, essay called Ivy Dread, which I really recommend on the whole wedding industrial complex. And she talks about 27 dresses and she describes it as, throughout the movie, Jane compulsively denies her self worth and happiness, hoarding both things for her imaginary future wedding, planning other people's rehearsal dinners and accruing huge piles of resentment in her soul, which I think we touched on.
Um, And she also talks about, how Jane has been broken by the cultural psychosis that tells women to cram a lifetime supply of open self interest [00:40:00] into a single, incredibly expensive day.
Oof.
nailed it with that.
preach, yeah, damn.
it's also bleeding over into the other aspects of her life, because when we're introduced to her at her job, which is working for this non profit run by Ed Burns, she's, like, made herself completely subservient to Ed Burns, her boss, and it's almost like a, I don't know, it's like a heightened, like, sideways version of what a marriage, like, what a shitty, terrible, toxic marriage is, or is portrayed in our mind.
Society where it's just like this aloof guy who just is like, oh, babe, you know,
like couldn't run this company at all if it wasn't for you and just like her willing to just bend over backwards to Appease him in every single way possible.
she takes the breadcrumbs of that really happily. So, like, she, he looks so happy that she, like, what, picked out his tie or some shit? And, or, like, did some, like, menial, and he's [00:41:00] like, oh god, Jane, I love you, and she doesn't look Forlorn or like sad or like that's all I'm good for she looks genuinely like yeah, this is what I deserve This is what I I get to be the one who picks out his tie and it's just totally enough for me Um, but I wanted to say which is bullshit I wanted to say to what you said Frank a little bit ago about how like nobody's like calling out this insanity at the beginning where she's like It's just absolutely like a farce.
And I'm like, that's why James Mars character is so hot, because he's the one to do it. Like, he's the one to be like, what the hell, this is very not normal. You know, like, he follows her. He's like, this isn't normal, and this is crazy, and I'm going to call this woman out on it. Which is also like super, it's so the feminine, what they do to us.
In these movies is like we are so unaware of our shit. We're just bumbling around with all of these insane Character defects and we don't even know until a man comes and says hey I [00:42:00] got it and she meets the man by by passing out and Falling down. I'm like look do we need that? No, is it hot?
Yeah,
but like it's the classic it's the classic like It's 2008 and they're still like, okay, the woman can't even stand up straight. So she falls down and she knocks herself unconscious. And then the man comes and is like, Hey, by the way, I think you're so crazy and batch it. And I want to like follow you and, and make you see like who you could actually be.
Yeah.
And I was a sucker
for it.
oh, I was a total suck for
it.
And he's gonna come in and basically tell her, Hey, you know you're being exploited by all this shit, right? Like, let me teach you to say no. Let's cosplay you, like, saying no to me. Like, say no, oh, you can't, oh, tricked ya, gotcha. And then he comes in and exploits the shit out of her!
And he writes an article about her, so that he can, like, get higher up in his remember he's like, [00:43:00] I'm gonna write this article about you, because you're so, why,
Well, he doesn't
he doesn't even tell her.
tell
her.
that's the whole thing. Unethical journalistic practices by Kevin, the
Bro fucks her in a car, Parker.
fucks her in a car, writes a whole story about her, doesn't let her know or go to her for comment or anything. Like, this man should be, she should sue this fucking man for libel is what she
should do.
Or
But is
yeah, for
sure.
No.
what does Jane do?
She marries
him.
jumps aboard a ship!
Yeah, of course. She has
to.
aboard a ship!
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, for me, if it was anyone else playing that role, I would be like, you're a sucker. but I, I really think the like, this sounds so bad, but like, he's so hot, dude. I would be
he's so hot and he's like
the perfect, foil for contrast for her. He's like, hey, you're uptight. Check me out. My shirt isn't tucked in.[00:44:00]
that's the character development we get.
Yeah, and I think watching this movie just like pointed so much to my brainwashing, like my conditioning of like, wow, like this, these were really all that we saw growing up, like these stories of women needing men to set them straight or like get them on the right path or like shake them up a bit.
And I just felt myself falling into it. It's kind of like that, like, Oh, this is a comfortable place. I know. Like sexy man tells me I'm crazy and to follow him and like, okay. You know,
in watching this initially, I was like, every single person is awful in this. Like, I don't think there's a single redeemable character. But then, like, in, I think in speaking now and, like, having a little distance from it, I was like, it's really unfair, like, all of the pressures this movie put on Katherine Heigl's character.
And then, like, you know, once she starts going through the planning of her sister and her boss, who she loves as wedding, She's keeping [00:45:00] it all inside, and like, as the audience, you're like, Why aren't you saying anything? Just fucking tell them. Why are you doing this to yourself? But, if you like, zoom out for a second, you're like, Well, of course she's not gonna say anything.
This woman is like, pathologically compulsed to like, help everyone make the perfect wedding. Like, of course, this isn't her fault. She's just been absolutely destroyed by this industry.
I did Yeah.
For anyone who hasn't seen the movie and doesn't plan on it, she clips, like, she like, sits down and reads the paper for the wedding stuff and like, she saves it like a serial killer would save
Yeah,
Wait, you cried?
percent. I did cry and here's my thing. I cried when she walks in and sees that the sister has cut up her mom's wedding dress.
That's a
sad.
Yeah.
a
No, actually, but I first cried when the dad gave the wedding dress to the sister. That's when I first cried. So I think that dynamic is the part of the movie that kills me the most is that like we're watching [00:46:00] women pitted against each other like always. Like surprise surprise, but that these are sisters and you're asking me to believe that like a Woman who was raised by her older sister and had no other Feminine like female in her life.
This was her mother figure her role model her whole life. Is this Like, to me, I was like, this is a psychopath, like, you've written an actual psychopath. Like, I don't, there's not an ounce of empathy, understanding, compassion, nothing. And like, I have two younger sisters and I just like, can't wrap my head around the cold way that they wrote this feud.
It's just so unrealistic. Unless, you know, look. DM me if you and your sister are literally, and tell me what happened to you guys, but
No, that's, that is such a good point. you're right. It's, it's some of the most, ruthless, cold behavior that you would ever see a sibling treat another one. That, [00:47:00] like, that wouldn't be in, like, a, like, a family drama or something. Like, she says, Hey, I know you wanted to get married at this venue and use mom's dress.
But I'm gonna do that. Like, that is, you're right, that is,
Awful.
that is
Yeah.
is like beyond the pale.
Also the fact that it's passed down that you're like, all they, all we learn about the mom, all they value about the mom, is that her wedding day was the most
important day of her life. Not even like their birth, the birth of her children. Like that is so depressing, but it's so, it's so clear. And that is like so, what so many people are taught to expect and live for.
And what a brilliant, Like system of the patriarchy just make this one really expensive day what like all these women live for and value themselves on I think most I think a lot of people that's not the only thing in their lives anymore but it's suddenly you I know a lot of people who deal with that duality of like That's not who I am, but suddenly this is becoming, like, the value and representation of, like,
Totally. Yeah.
them, it [00:48:00] is this inherited system that they're grappling with.
It's such a good way, it's such a good way to distract us and steal, like, years. I mean, if the, the, like, trope is, like, she's been dreaming of this wedding since she was a little girl. Like, the idea that, like, at all times we are collecting Our, likes and dislikes in terms of the wedding we want to one day have or whatever.
I saw a TikTok of a girl who was like, Here's all, like, since she was little, her father's been recording her, like, be like, This is my message to the wedding party, like, that she's gonna play at her, And I'll, and I'll be honest, my first thought was like, oh my god, that is so, like,
Yeah!
even me.
You hear me? I was like, that is so, and now I'm like, that is,
that is that, like, what kind of, like, you know what I mean? That you're like, yeah, like, I'm 10 and I'd like you to record me. We're going to do this every year for that future date that is going to be the most important date so that everyone there can see me, that I've been planning this without, doesn't matter who the frickin person is.
It's interesting because [00:49:00] I, I related to, I didn't realize, like, until I was watching it, how much I related to Jane. Like, I was raised by my dad, had two younger sisters, was the oldest sister, and, um, mom, you know, not really around, so had to be, like, the caretaker for these little sisters, which is why maybe I was so angry at the little sister, like, you ungrateful bitch, you have no idea.
But I also recognize that like, it's not just the wedding. It's, it's the idea of marriage or right. It's been forever that we like, we used to like sell our daughters to like. For like in exchange of whatever we'd have dowries all that shit And I feel that even with my dad like I'm 36 and I'm single and when I was like 22 He didn't want me to date anyone He was like focus on your career men are trash don't you know?
And if you do date someone he better be like this this this and I'm 36 and [00:50:00] he talked now He's literally like just any just do it just anyone just anyone just like just date just find someone and I'm like I understand that like This idea of like that's how to feel be safe in the world is like who's gonna take care of my daughter And it's really hard for people even me I have to work against it to break up with this idea that we have that like that we need a man and we need a protector and provider and that being the protector and provider for ourselves Isn't possible and like looking at Jane, I'm like, she's, I don't know how it's a fake world where she's an assistant and lives in the most incredible New York City apartment, but she looks like she's providing for herself.
You know what I mean? And yet, like, it's still like poor Jane doesn't have the husband or now I'm going off into 20 tangents, but I [00:51:00] related.
No, I love that point.
it's institutional. it's totemic. you know, marriage is part of capitalist heteronormative patriarchy, there are these, uh, you know, touchstones in your life that you have to clear in order to be, like, complete, full human. must go to college, must get married.
Must buy house, must have kids. If you don't do those four things specifically, you are incomplete person. Um, I saw this video, from a, uh, a divorce attorney a few years ago.
like years ago, totally changed my perspective. He was like, I'm a divorce attorney. 54 of marriages end in divorce. We know this statistically. Okay, so then imagine, you know, how many people stay together for the kids? How many stay together even though they're miserable? How many stayed together just because it would be more difficult to get divorced?
20 or so, give or take. So we're talking about an institution that has a 75 failure rate, ostensibly, and yet we still view it as [00:52:00] the correct, right, thing to do in your life. Like, no one is like, hey, maybe don't do that
wedding. 25 of them work out. It's sick. It's
It's sick We
are fucked.
when I thought about it that way, I was like, that is wild.
I'm
grateful
you spelled it out that way.
crisis Well, the other thing that fucks me up is anytime I see like, lists that are like, the new wedding trends
when I'm like, there's trends for weddings. So like, we're so far removed from the like, sacred point of it. That still plucks me. The idea of like, commitment and right, community and love and all of that.
We're so far away from that. That's not what it's about at all. It almost scares me like it's a jinx if, if you get married. Which I'm not telling that to anyone. Watch, in a year I'm like married and I have the biggest wedding in the world. But it does, it just feels like anything that's like [00:53:00] the hottest trends for your wedding.
I'm like, what are, where are we at? What are we doing? Why, what are we doing?
And the, yeah, I'm just thinking you said that and I was like thinking about that last scene at her wedding where she has all her bridesmaids wearing the dresses and it goes, I mean, it's a great visual, but just the destruction. She is the loneliest woman in the world. And also like
the destruction of any relationship in her life in pursuit of this imagined one.
To this man who doesn't like, who actually hates her.
But at the same time, we're led to believe that she has ingratiated herself with 27 different women to the
point that they all want her in her
So she's like, at once, the loneliest, but also she must be, like, best friend in the world to 27 different people? Like, it
Yeah, she's like the most popular people pleaser. Like, it must be like, word throughout the land that like, if you want
Well, she's giving free labor. She's, yeah, she's like, I'm gonna literally show up, free labor here, and you'll just have to come to my [00:54:00] wedding. But, that's what I
mean, like, the destruction under this. They're like, I don't care if you're my actual friend.
I think my favorite person in the movie is Judy Greer.
A thousand percent.
She does what the fuck she wants. Yeah, I know, she says what she wants, but she's also, so she's like painted at first as like, Oh, she's that bad friend who like, just stayed out all night and like, gives bad advice. But when she, when Katherine Heigl like, totally destroys her sister at the rehearsal dinner with the like, video montage, it's Judy Greer who's like, that wasn't chill.
You're like, oh, you do have a moral compass.
Yeah,
you're just like, we love, I love her.
yeah, the movie also does that like shitty thing where it kind of paints Judy Greer as like, Oh, she's like just the slutty friend
and like you can
Yeah.
Yeah.
in the way that
like the jokes and the
Totally.
with 2023 perspective You're like this chick's like fucking for a day and a half and then rolling into work.
Boom.
like that's
awesome
Yeah,[00:55:00] Well, I also just like, I think that my other thought that just came up is that I think a lot of these movies, the way that the woman is in the movie is not lovable, but the man comes along and can see through that. He can see the lovable part of her and he can help her to become the lovable version of herself.
what's the movie like where we are watching her and she's insane and she's crazy and she's clipping wedding fucking things and she's like jacking off to her closet of bridesmaid's dresses and then the guy comes along and loves her and is like this wild bitch is my main girl, like I love you.
Like what movie would that be? love weddings this much
was another thing, just back to the James Marsden of it all. He also goes into her date book
and writes his evil. As someone who loves a date book [00:56:00] and a calendar is my sacred space. If anyone went in and took, at a time when you're not have, there's, that's, you're, there's no googled calendar.
Like, that's it. And writes it like a kindergartner. Finger paints his name all, over every date.
opens
it at all. If someone opens it at all. cause the thing is also like, it's not like a clean planner. It's clearly got like a million like post its and memorabilia and like, it's like, it looks like her whole little life and we're just supposed to be like, oh, he's so, I mean he is, but like, he's so cute.
Like looking through her shit, I would be mortified. I would literally.
shaking it up. Yeah,
Yeah,
the actual worst.
So much unforgivable behavior from him. The only thing, like, this is, this reminded me a lot of Tom Hanks in You've Got Mail. if anyone other than James Marsden was playing this character, we'd be like, this man is evil, get him away from us.
Except he's just the hottest, so we're like, [00:57:00] okay.
Thank you. Yeah.
I think we got him just really quickly touch in on the, the big brother, big sister, like the big
brother.
yeah,
the bot. Like, that was a pretty wild thing to also add to the sister's personality of being the worst human in the world. So, like, he has a little, a young, um, brother from brother, brothers and sisters, what's it called?
Big brothers, big
sisters, Big brother,
the Big brother,
Big
the boys and girls club,
whatever. Yeah.
2000, yeah. It's
Totally. and I believe he's Hispanic. And she decides to make him a maid. Yeah, we're also adding that like she's incredibly racist and tone deaf and like that, that part to me was like, oh, so, okay.
So I think the goal of this character, even being in the movie, is like, how can we write the worst possible woman to ever exist?
It's [00:58:00] so 2000, it's so this era of rom com and comedies too, particularly with like Latine characters that are working class where they always have to distinguish, an asshole upper class white person by having them make a really disparaging or like gross joke at, like I've just seen this as a trend, there's one that I prefer, like, you'll just find these very particular jokes.
And it's like. We don't, we know she's an asshole. We didn't need your superfluous racism in this
film to do it. You're just putting that in there to be racist yourself. But they do it in a way that feels like, ha ha, we're just showing you who this character
Mm hmm.
no, you're just showing us who you are.
Like,
Yeah.
Wild.
so Erika, the last thing we do is we give out, uh, awards for this movie. We've got three of them, our first award is the Best Politics Award. It goes to the character with the best politics in the movie, which is tough for this one.
Although
we did kind of, we did, [00:59:00] we did kind of say
That's, that
was gonna be my, my thought. yeah, she's doing her fucking thing.
She's doing her thing, she's out there having fun, living her life, not feeling, like, shame or judgment, and then, and then you're right, she tells Kat, she tells Jane at the end, like, yo, that was actually, you just kind of blew up their wedding and that was kind of shitty.
Yeah, there's no one else. Everyone else is pretty
It's shitty, yeah.
also this is just, like, in the middle of, like, Judy Greer's, 2000s, like, I am the best friend in every single rom com run, and she's just The absolute best. next to Judy Greer at a benefit dinner one night, and I have to say, she was the fucking coolest.
really?
fucking cool.
Ooh.
hey, what's your name?
Like, what are you doing here? What's going on? And we just like chatted the whole night. I was like, I fucking, I love you so much,
Judy Greer. So,
Aww.
so nice to hear, because every time she comes on screen in anything, like literally anything, you're like, oh, I feel so much better about whatever I'm watching.
Totally.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
choice. There's like [01:00:00] one scene, I don't know what's happening, but she made this choice to be there. She's like cutting her dead ends
Dead Ends,
office scissor.
Yeah.
And I
was like, that's fucking brilliant.
She's too, yeah, she's too good for everyone she's in a movie with.
It's great. It's brilliant. Okay, so, that was easy. We all, we all agree. There are no other
contenders. The Award for Worst Politics, which goes to the character with the worst politics in the movie. I feel like this might be, have a lot of nominees. Who are you giving
it to, Erica?
it's like I, I'm torn between this, I think the sister, in my opinion, what was her name even in it?
Tess.
only because it's like so like, it's so narcissistic, it's so narcissistic. What do I want? What? How do I get it? I don't care who hurts. I don't care who suffers. I have to get what I want.
I'll lie, I'll change my entire [01:01:00] personality, I'll betray every family member, I don't care. I think that's pretty, yeah, I would vote her.
and I will be racist.
Yeah, totally, yeah, and also, and also build a wall, like, what the fuck.
Yeah, I think just for all of that. I mean like the runner up would be James Marsden character, Kevin. For, as we mentioned, going through her calendar and doing defamation without her consent.
Right.
I'm giving it to the patriarch himself. The dad. I thought
Oh, shit!
heinous, and I'll tell you why.
There was a scene where, when Tess brings the boss guy. Back and she's like, this is my husband. This is we're married. Aren't you happy dad? And like he's not questioning that they've only known each other for like what a month
Or that he has like 15 years on her,
age
years on her is like
doesn't like clearly his other daughter if you have any eyes is in love with this guy Probably only talks about this [01:02:00] guy No, what does he say?
He shakes his hand like a good man, and he's like you sir You employed my daughter you married my other daughter George You're my hero. He basically sucks this man's dick, like, they are just, like, And I was like, there, I was like, oh, I see, I see, I see where it is. And also, like, fuck this, and then it made me think in that moment, Oh, you're the real villain here, that I
Yeah.
about this whole movie.
And I go back to the beginning of the movie, the flashback. He let his daughter, like, he's like, I don't know, he's like at the without the the mom is gone, and he's literally like, I couldn't possibly take on
any of the parental roles.
Right, I'm not taking you to the bathroom.
I don't know how to tie a
ribbon in a little girl's hair.
Yeah.
Yeah, like,
absolutely, mate, Patri I was like, you, sir, are the problem, and it all started here with you.
You're a low key genius, and that
was I did not see
that coming.
[01:03:00] Schooled.
Yeah.
Because also, you know what? Tess wouldn't be such a fucking wild nightmare if that wasn't her father.
Wow. And that's real democracy right there.
Yeah, Yeah, that's a real throwback. our last award, Erika, is, best supporting character slash spin off. So this goes to maybe one of your favorite supporting characters, and I don't know, a potential spin off you would want to see them in. Mm
That's a good question. I mean, we already just Went down on Judy Greer for an hour, but I'm gonna say I would like to watch Judy Greer Be however old she'd actually be right now, and Never got married and never had a wedding and it's not a fucking issue and it's not a problem and it's not what the show is about at all and we just get to watch her like be Let's just, I would just like the spinoff to be Judy Greer in many situations.
That would, we could call it that. Let's just [01:04:00] watch her like Not
Not care about
getting married, Or like, oh
wait, wait, one more,
one more,
20 years ahead. Fuckin, Me Too's happened. And Catherine Heigl's like, Oh my god, I'm in a like low key abusive relationship with like a gaslighting, like, whatever. And like, comes to and is like, and, but he's still so hot.
So she's like, we're gonna work this out. And he does, let's just have a movie where hot James Marsden does everything we want these hot white men to do.
okay.
Like, come to fucking Jesus on a lot of,
shit. Yeah.
Like, own up to all of the harm that he has caused.
like,
Yeah, in the right way.
therapy,
Intensive therapy, like, so much. yeah, it would just be true porn.
I wanna get, I want a movie where we get all these like, Dudes, like, the actors who've been in these movies together and we have to be like, you now have to like, do, [01:05:00] we're gonna record you doing therapy over these like, roles and like, you have to do this work to unpack this shit on this
like, Tom Hanks, James Mars, like all of them. That's what I, but that's not my pitch for this award. My pitch for this award is the Taxi Cab Driver, which I did want to talk about.
Oh,
That pissed me off, cause like, I just thought, wow, and it was just such a like, She lost me there, you know, where she just jumps in and, Any kind of sympathy I would've had for Jane, but the way she treats that cab driver, just like, You're gonna, you're, you're A, you're gonna need this money, This 300 to do whatever I want, I'm gonna treat you like you're my, Servant now, and I'm going to chastise you for looking back, like God forbid he looks back.
I'd be looking back too, here's a stranger ran into my car, ordering me to
go here and there. And anytime he looks back or she says he does, she's like, that's 50! And she starts deducting his pay! And he's like, he [01:06:00] looks scared to me. He doesn't look like he wants, is attracted to her, wants to look at her.
He's just a New York City cab driver trying to like, do his job. She doesn't ask his consent. to jump in and do any of that,
so
are just blowing my
mind right now.
if it was gender swapped, and it was like some guy getting in the back of like a female cab driver, and was like, hey, I'm gonna have my dick out, don't
look at me. Like, it would, you'd be like,
this is fucked up. This is fucked up.
20 bucks off your paycheck, babe!
You're
so right, man.
not cool.
I don't have any other pitches. I thought those were, were perfect. And I honestly, I'm uninterested in so many of these characters.
I know, dude. That's the real deal. I think that's why I keep going back to like, isn't James Marsden's face so pretty? Because I think that the movie was so much so devoid of really, I just I couldn't latch on to anyone.
Really? And
yeah.
whose camp I'm in. I am rooting for this person.
Yeah, I wonder if this is considered a like, it's such an interesting one [01:07:00] to, it wasn't a classic for me, but I'm glad we started here. Like I said, I think it's the most material of the like, wedding movies, but we'll definitely have to jump into some. There's the wedding singer,
the
Mmm. wedding planner. The wedding date.
every, the wedding date.
There's like, we could probably
There's so many.
My best
friend's wedding. Runaway bride.
Four
Yeah, dude. We should do a spin
off of this podcast where we just talk about
weddings.
And Leading up to my wedding. Through that experience, a
ha.
man hears me on this podcast. And he's like, who's this girl who hates weddings?
She's crazy. I'm gonna change her. And then him and I fall in love. And then we do a
live wedding on
That's my final pitch.
intermittently between like the ceremony and the reception and the
Yeah.
you know, like that way people get to hear it as well.
Exactly, exactly.
Perfection. Alright, so [01:08:00] this is, I think, where we're going to cap this conversation for now. Although, what a generative
movie this was for us. This was really
fun. And before we wrap up,
fun. You guys are so smart.
you're not gone yet.
Because before we wrap up, we'd like to talk to our guests how as artists, as people, you strive to practice your values, be them anti capitalist or your artist values in your life, even with all its complexities and contradictions, is there one thing that you're doing in your life right now that's a practice you would want to share with us?
okay. Anytime that I'm resting or taking pleasure or doing nothing that is, making me any money or furthering my Quote unquote career. I feel incredible guilt, and I made it a point in the past year or so to reach out to the people I know, um, you are one of them, [01:09:00] that will remind me that that's not, that that's internalized capitalism, that me being at rest or me being in pleasure Or me doing nothing is like an act of, you know, resistance and that, um, it's, it makes sense anytime that I can be reminded that like, it's not my fault that I feel incredibly guilty when I'm like looking at the trees outside my window and drinking my coffee without any other, you know, email, whatever act that I could be doing alongside this to make sure that I'm still in the game.
So I guess the main thing I'm doing is, trying to take up space as like a human who wants to experience joy and pleasure without, and, and alongside that, I, I've been trying to be of service to people that I love. and it gives me that like community feeling, that like tribe [01:10:00] feeling, that feeling like we have to help each other.
And that helps me a lot.
I also go thrifting. I know that's really big in the anti capitalist
movement. We love a thrift. We love we love that. We love a thrift.
Yeah.
Um, Erica, it was so great seeing you, um, congrats on Vacuum Girl, I hope that I get to see it as well, cause yeah, the reviews, they're in, they're hot, everyone's loving this show, so congratulations, and Thank
Thank you Thank you
guys so
much. This was so fun.
find you and your work?
Go to my Instagram. It's G U R U B F. Or Erica Baton. It'll also come up on Instagram. And I always post about my shows on there. but you just reminded me that I should probably have a website, but for now it's just that Instagram.
Awesome. you
so much for coming on. I hope we have you back
soon.
Thanks guys. This was so
fun.
Thank you all so much for listening. Make sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok. And if you [01:11:00] want to support the show and get access to our premium episodes, you can go to mvcpod. com to find all of that info.
For next week's movie, we will be watching the 2006 Disney Pixar classic, Cars. Thanks again!
Bye.