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Lives entwined are as complex as any machine. This week on the show we talk about how to navigate separating parts of your lives together that are incredibly complex, with a hypothetical courtroom exercise that will help you clearly understand your lawyer’s objective in supporting you in your divorce.
Show Notes
Lives entwined are as complex as any machine. This week on the show, Seth Nelson and Pete Wright talk about how to navigate separating parts of your lives together that are incredibly complex, with a hypothetical courtroom exercise that will help you clearly understand your lawyer’s objective in supporting you in your divorce.
What are your objectives in the divorce process and why is it so important for you to be fully-engaged all along the way? What is evidence, and how does it work in your situation? What does the judge know of your case and what factors influence the judge’s perspective? Finally, how does your ability to work with your former spouse and counsel impact a positive outcome?
- (00:00) - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
- (00:33) - Can You Really Split a Toaster?
- (02:15) - Navigating the Split
- (09:11) - Objectives With the Process
- (12:36) - Splitting the Kids
- (17:23) - Define a Term – Evidence
- (19:31) - Your Lawyer's Objective
- (25:34) - The Judge's Knowledge of the Case & Their Factors
- (28:37) - What Is Fair in the Eyes of the Law?
- (29:44) - Splitting Assets & Liabilities
- (31:19) - Having to Work Together
- (35:28) - Closing
Creators and Guests
Host
Host
What is How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships?
Seth Nelson is a Tampa based family lawyer known for devising creative solutions to difficult problems. In How to Split a Toaster, Nelson and co-host Pete Wright take on the challenge of divorce with a central objective — saving your most important relationships with your family, your former spouse, and yourself.
Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Today, we're taking on our very namesake, can you really split a toaster?
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson with my good friend, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Hello, Seth Nelson.
Seth Nelson:
How are you doing today, Pete?
Pete Wright:
I'm doing great. I'm doing great because we're going to take on something that is complicated in my brain.
Seth Nelson:
Splitting a toaster should be easy, brother.
Pete Wright:
This is what I'm saying. We're going to talk a little bit about why we chose how to split a toaster as this show name. And it struck me, I think by surprise, as we were having this conversation, I don't remember who have a said it, but I remember hearing it as a joke and suddenly it was the name of our show. Can you tell me what appealed to you about naming the show about splitting a toaster?
Seth Nelson:
Because it's impossible. And I think that it's very difficult to go through a divorce. You don't go around it, you don't go over it, you go through it. And a lot of people when they're going through the process, get so overwhelmed with the emotional aspects of the process that they really try to do things that are just simply impossible. How to split a toaster, the name to me is really talking about how do you get through this process that one you might've never thought you were going to have to do.
Seth Nelson:
And even if you thought walking down the aisle, I'm making a mistake here, even if you thought that, it still doesn't make the process any easier, right? It's still a difficult process. So I think then it stuck and it's funny at one thing, I like the graphics of it and from the art side to it, but also really to me, it's about the relationship that you're having with yourself and the struggles you have as you go through trying to untangle your life with somebody that you've gotten married to.
Pete Wright:
I would love it if you would reflect a bit on your experience because having been through divorce, we know that, that's settled law, what are you feeling-
Seth Nelson:
All right, this is the famous case, that's right.
Pete Wright:
Yes, the famous case of the Nelson separation. What are you feeling as you go through this push and pull to split the unsplittable, right? And the way I'm thinking about it is there are the practical aspects, which is the separation of goods or the big three F's, right, finances, family, and friends, right? How do you navigate that?
Seth Nelson:
It's different for everybody and I think a lot of it has to do with how long were you married? Do you have kids? Do you have grandkids together? I mean, there are a lot of people that have been married North of 30 years that will end up getting divorced. So I think a lot of that plays into it. I think there is certainly disappointment or a feeling that, oh my God, I wasted all this time. I've been with this person for 20 years or wow, I wasted that time. And what I frequently tell friends and others that when they're going through it, I said, especially if you have kids, I said, you'd make the same deal.
Seth Nelson:
If someone told you, you're going to think you're going to be married the rest of your life, you're going to get divorced in 10 years, you're going to have two absolutely amazing kids, and it's going to be a terrible divorce. It's going to be a nightmare, but you're going to still have these amazing kids even if you have them half the time, you ask any parent that, would you take that deal? And ultimately, they're going to say yes because of ...
Seth Nelson:
So no, it's not how you mapped it out. It's not what you thought. The law is not fair. People talk all the time, I just want it to be fair. I've been doing this a long time. I don't know what fair is to you, it might be different from the other person's perspective. So I think it's just understanding that there is the emotional side, there's your family, how are they going to respond? Are you the first one in your family to get divorced? Is this your third divorce that people are like, oh yeah, whatever it's happening again, but maybe this was the one you thought was really going to last. There's a lot going on.
Pete Wright:
That leads to something that I've been bouncing around in my brain this morning as we were talking about this, is there such a thing when you're in a mode of being compromised, right? Let's just say, let's take it as table stakes that going through a divorce, you are somehow emotionally, intellectually may be compromised because of the pressures of the experience.
Seth Nelson:
It's wrong. And I will tell you, whatever your personality is, it is heightened going through stressful situations, and divorce is right up there. So if you're one that is one that really watches every dime, you're going to watch every penny. If you are a little bit anxious, you're going to be hyper anxious. If you're big picture, just cut to it, how do we get this through? You're going to want to get done quick. Boom, I just want it over, let's get this done quickly. I want it done. I want it done. I want it done. You'll give away the farm just to be done. If you don't like conflict, you might just say, I don't care. The thought of going to a trial just gives you hives, so you'll settle just to be done.
Seth Nelson:
And you're also going through the grieving process. And we all know that there is anger, there's bargaining, there's acceptance, and it goes up and down and it's not linear. And it also is with somebody else. They're going through it too even if you, right at the moment cannot stand them. And you see them, and every time you see them, you feel like you just want to punch them in the face. Talk to your lawyers. I'm sure, they'll tell you not to do that. But-
Pete Wright:
But again, jurisdictions law differs from state to state.
Seth Nelson:
Different state to state depending on the circumstances. Maybe there's going to be a jury of your peers that would not convict you. All that being said, it would be very strange, right Pete, if on the very first date, think back to the first time you took your wife out on a date and you sat down at that movie that you went to, or you went to dinner.
Pete Wright:
Titanic.
Seth Nelson:
There you go. And after Titanic, you said, will you marry me? She is going to say no. As amazing as a guy as you are, you're not at that level yet, right? So eventually some people say, look, we've been together a long time. It's either time to get married or not, I'm going to move on, right? You have to get to the same places in relationships relatively at the same time. It's the same when you're splitting up, acceptance doesn't happen right away.
Pete Wright:
Oh.
Seth Nelson:
You're with me?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
One person might be, I'm out of here, I've been thinking about this divorce for five years and the other one just might not have seen it coming. So there's that whole dynamic of push pull and saying, I want to be together. What's going on? And then the next thing you know, they're saying, I still want to be together, but they're on the dating apps and then they're like, I thought you want to be together, why are you on a dating app? And they're like, well, because you're telling me you don't want to be together, so I'm trying to move on, but I still want to be with you. And it gets very emotional very quickly.
Pete Wright:
I was speaking to a friend of mine who on finishing his divorce, completing divorce, signing all the paperwork, whatever, making it final, we went out to dinner and we said, what is it that gets you through this process? Do you just count on your instincts? And he said something that stuck with me, he looked at me and he said, instincts, I don't remember any of it. It happened to me and around me, and I was a, as much as I showed up to the meetings, I was an empty husk. I felt my faculties had just evaporated.
Seth Nelson:
Right. And I feel like we did not serve him well, because we weren't doing the show back then. Because, our point here is you have to be engaged. As difficult as that is to actually do with all this other stuff going on around you, you being engaged in the process in an efficient, meaningful way will give you a sense of more control, because there's so much lack of control and uncertainty when you're going through this process. For example, the courtroom, people will say, I want my day in court, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what does that mean to you? I know it's the American way and apple pie in our day in court, but you don't get your day in court. Your lawyer gets your day in court. In court, you're actually treated like a child. You sit there quietly and you speak when spoken to, and you're just going to answer questions.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I do want to talk about the objective. What is your objective as somebody who's getting a divorce? How do you talk about getting through to the other side of this experience? When you're talking to a client, are you saying, don't worry, we're going to get you closure, we're going to get you ... How do you define that? Is there such a thing as closure?
Seth Nelson:
No, I don't talk to them about closure. What I and what you should be looking for in your lawyer is to get you through the legal process, to get you to at the end of what people might call a divorce decree. That's what you're looking for your lawyer to do, and make sure that you understand things along the way and you do it efficiently to save time and money and make sure you're communicating and understanding what's happening and why.
Seth Nelson:
I as the lawyer, am not going to be there when your kid graduates high school or at the wedding, even though you're divorced. My job is long done. That's why I talk about, I'm not your friend, I'm your lawyer, right? And my job is to help get you through this process and to make sure that you understand what's happening to you. And here's what I mean by that, you going through the divorce will have a host of emotions that are not going to be compensated for the legal system.
Pete Wright:
That's what I'm getting at. It's exactly what I'm getting at, right? When I'm looking for ... We made a joke when we first started this podcast together about don't worry about it, we're going to be best friends, how to become best friends with your lawyer, right? And that's going to be my cause celeb. But the real point is that at the end of this experience, when I'm thinking about my relationships in my life, my friends, my family, my kids, the kids grandparents, whatever, what I'm seeking is something that the divorce process will not deliver. That's my hypothesis. Is that fair?
Seth Nelson:
That's spot on. Let's just say that your spouse has cheated on you, nothing in the law is going to compensate you in any way, shape or form of somebody doing that to you.
Pete Wright:
That is heartbreak.
Seth Nelson:
It is heartbreak. That is not what the law in divorce, I think is there to do. It's to set up a plan for the kids, divide up your assets and liabilities, figure out if you need some money afterwards for alimony, how much is child support and who pays the attorney's fees, and how do we get through this mess?
Pete Wright:
The law is not a [inaudible 00:11:48] for heartbreak.
Seth Nelson:
Right. But I will tell you, please go think about talking to a mental health professional, even if it's only during going through the divorce. That's the person that you could reach out to, to say in that one hour or 45 minute session, their job is to focus on you and they don't have an agenda. They're not your friend. They're not trying to divide friends. They're not your family. They don't have any heartbreak in this. They're not-
Pete Wright:
They're also not going to help you split your finances. They're also not going to help you with any of that stuff.
Seth Nelson:
They're going to help you emotionally get through this process. And I would encourage people always to seek out whatever you do to be mindful, to recharge your batteries. That's so important when you're going through this. Here's the other thing about splitting the unsplittable, I don't remember where I read this or who said this to me, but I thought it was one of the most brilliant things for people to understand if they're going through a divorce with kids, husbands and wives get divorced, moms and dads do not. In a child's world, there is no husband and wife, there's mom and dad and sibling and the pet, right?
Seth Nelson:
So if you're talking to a child about getting a divorce and you say, well, mommy and daddy are getting a divorce, that's breaking their world. If you tell that same child that, as a husband and a wife, or as a husband and a husband, or as a wife and a wife, we are going to live in separate houses and we're getting divorced, but as your parents, we will always love you. We will always take care of you, that separates it for kids. And that's why I say that it's splitting the unsplittable, because if you have children, you will always going to be their parents. They will always be your kids, that is never going to be split or changed. Obviously, if you're married and you don't have kids, and it's a one-year marriage and you haven't really have a lot of time together, you'll get divorced. You'll go on your way.
Pete Wright:
In fact, there might be some things that are splittable.
Seth Nelson:
Right at that level. But once you have kids, I mean, you're going to be parents for the rest of your life. You'll be grandparents and so on and so forth. So just think about the words that you use and just think about those relationships, and yeah your relationships with your children might get better. And back to what you said, what about my divorce, which I usually don't talk about, because my former spouse and I get along very well, but I did the Math. I'm a Math guy.
Seth Nelson:
I actually saw my kid more when I was divorced than when I was married. Because when I was married, I was working long hours, and my wife at the time, my son's mother will work long hours, but she would get home before I would. So she would have the kids more and I would get home call it seven o'clock. They go to bed at eight, I have an hour. Maybe in the morning, I'm there for an hour. So two hours a day. And then I would try to catch up the time on the weekend, but we had to cut the grass and do the laundry and clean the house and do all those chores and running kids to birthday parties, and go, go, go, go, go.
Seth Nelson:
When I got divorced, when I had him, it was just me. I had to be there early to pick him up. There was no one else to pick him up. Yeah, if I was running late or if I had to work late, will my former spouse do it and help out? Of course, but it's on me. That weekend was all the time I had with him that weekend. So it was me and him all weekend long. On the weekends, I didn't have him, I worked and worked and worked. So my life on a daily basis might've been unbalanced because either I was working a lot or I was working less because I was with my son, but over that two week period or three week or four week or month, it was balanced if you looked at it in that frame of mind.
Seth Nelson:
So, and I'll tell people all the time, if you want more time with your kids, put down your cell phone, take the time that you have. It really is about quality time and not quantity, but those are the types of things that you cannot ... Everyone talks about splitting the time here and splitting the time there, there are ways that you can really make the time that you have totally valuable. One way, which people argue about all the time, Pete is I don't want to do all the driving. I love the time in my car with my son. He's captive.
Pete Wright:
You hear all the great goss, all the secrets, all the feelings, yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Chatting to you in the back or singing the song or play that song a million time when they're little, that to me is capturing really important time. And it's just thinking about those things a different way as opposed to, I can't believe I have to do all the driving. My ex never does any of the driving. Legitimate, I get it, I hear you, I feel it. But if you're the one doing the driving, just think about how all that works and what quality time you have with your kid that they're just giving away. They're just giving it away to you. I don't want to do the driving, you do it. They're just giving you that time. Take it.
Pete Wright:
We're going to talk more about working with your lawyer specifically what you can expect from them as you navigate the uncertain waters of splitting the unsplittable right after we define the term.
Seth Nelson:
The legal definition today is evidence, and I am reading from Black's Law Dictionary eighth edition. Evidence, a noun, something (including testimony, documents, and tangible objects) that tends to prove or disprove the existence of an alleged fact. Evidence, what does that mean? What evidence is, is anything that comes into court for the judge to hear or see or read that will help you prove your case. So for example, basic example, you start with, what is your name? My name is Seth Nelson. That is now an evidence, it proves a fact that I am Seth Nelson and I'm either a witness or I'm a party. Do you have any children? Yes. How many? One. Now we've proved that fact through my testimony.
Seth Nelson:
Now that's assuming no one contradicts it in any way, but just by me being asked a question and answer it in court, it is now an evidence. And then all those little bits of information, all those little answers to those questions will start building your case to prove or disprove what you want the judge to consider. So the judge at the end will be writing the ending that you want on how things will be split, whether it's splitting the children's time, how much they are with you, how much they're with your spouse, whether it's splitting assets and debts, whether it's splitting incomes after your divorce for alimony and for child support, splitting the children's expenses. That's what the evidence will go to prove to write the ending hopefully that you want at the end of the trial.
Pete Wright:
Seth, we're talking about splitting the unsplittable, how do you split a toaster? And my hunch is that while I am struggling to separate my identity from this other person, and we're dealing with feelings like this is impossible, how do we do this? What are the relationships with my family? You can't split this stuff. My hunch is that my lawyer and the system, I'm saying that in heavy air quotes might have a very different take on what can and cannot be split. What are my lawyer's objectives and obligations in working with me toward separating my life?
Seth Nelson:
The lawyer's objective is to represent you to the best of their ability. And what I mean by that is that they have to first gather information. That's what you have. It's going to be information about how you parent, how many kids do have? What positive things does your spouse do as a parent? What are the negatives? What are the things you're concerned about? You have all this information, so the lawyer's job is to gather that information from you, gather that information from other sources, which we call discovery that we talked about in our legal term last week, and then to do an analysis of all of that information to the law, and then come up with a legal opinion that they will then explain to you and then give you advice and counsel.
Seth Nelson:
So here's a quick little thing that we're going to do to show you how that plays out, because the information you have matters and the information and how it's presented matters into how things change. I'm going to pretend that someone is on the stand, and this is a father, and he's asking the court for 50, 50 timesharing. And he's told his lawyer a bunch of information. The other lawyer may or may not have that information, but the lawyer for let's call it the wife is questioning this gentlemen who's on the stand. This is how it plays, "Sir, in the last year, how many overnights have you spent with your child?" "Five." "During the last year, how many times have you called your child?" "12" "And when were those calls?" "Once a month."
Seth Nelson:
"Has your wife ever in the last year prohibited you from spending time with your child?" "No." "Has your wife ever in the last year prohibited you from calling your child?" "No." "Has your wife in the last year, in any way, shape or form alienated you from your child?" "No." "And you're asking this court to award you a 50, 50 time sharing, even though you've only spent five overnights in the last year and only called your son once a month in the last year, isn't that correct?" "Yes." All right, Pete, on those facts, would you give the guy 50, 50?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. No, no, I wouldn't.
Seth Nelson:
Why not?
Pete Wright:
Well, because that's ridiculous. He had the opportunity. He demonstrated he had the opportunity, the fact that he was not obstructed from actually having time with his child and he did not take it.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. Because that's all the information you have all that's in evidence. And based on that, the wife has proved her case, the guy wasn't around, how can you show up now and do 50, 50?
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
In your explanation, which was well sound and sound legal thought, right? You did say something that caught my ear, he had the opportunity. That was an assumption. And now, I'm going to get to his lawyer doing a cross examination on him, okay?
Pete Wright:
Oh, no.
Seth Nelson:
Sir, isn't it true that for the last year you've been a Naval officer in the United States Navy?
Pete Wright:
Oh, I feel like I was just set up. Come on.
Seth Nelson:
This is important, it's about information and how it gets played out. "Yes." "And where were you stationed?" "On an aircraft carrier." "How many nights was the aircraft carer in port?" "Five." "What did you do on those five nights?" "I spent them with my child." "How many times were you allowed to make phone calls from the aircraft carrier?" "12." "How were those done?" "I was only allowed to call once a month." "What did you use every single phone call for?" "To call my child." "Sir, are you currently an officer in the United States Navy?" "No. I'm retired." "Where do you live?" "I live five miles from the marital home where my wife and child live." "Are you asking for a 50, 50 time sharing schedule?" "Yes."
Pete Wright:
Okay. See, now I love him.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Okay. Now notice in this, I didn't even tell you any facts about, is he a good dad, is he ... There's no drama in this.
Pete Wright:
But there was opportunity and he demonstrated it.
Seth Nelson:
And he took it then.
Pete Wright:
He took it.
Seth Nelson:
So the point of this is you're giving your lawyer information. It's your lawyer's job to present that in court to try to prove a case or not prove a case. But also along the way, that lawyer should be saying, let's say the mother in this case is saying, look, I know he was a Naval officer, and I know that he did the five days, and I know that he made the phone calls, but he never sent a birthday card. He never wrote letters. They could have done all these other things, right? And so, that's how you're going to build your case deep on the didn't have the opportunity where he had other opportunities.
Seth Nelson:
Maybe the year before he was in port the whole year and he never saw the kids, right? I limited it to a year for way of example, but as the lawyer, you're going to take that information, you're going to do the analysis and then you're going to tell your client, I think a judge would make a decision in this range. I don't know any lawyer that can say it's definitely 100%, because you're persuading a third party, you can never [inaudible 00:25:34].
Pete Wright:
And we can say that that third party, the judge in this case does not know any of this stuff going into court, right? Who doesn't know this?
Seth Nelson:
They don't know anything about your case. And what is amazing for people to really understand and to see, and this is why I give the movie example. And you're a movie buff, you see the outcome, you see what's on the screen as the viewer, as the judge, you see what's on the screen. You don't see the 20 years of the relationship. You don't see the last five years of the parenting. Maybe your trial goes two days, that's at best 16 hours, eight hours aside and you've got to get through all your finances, all your kids' stuff, how many witnesses. You take a lunch break. You take a couple breaks in the morning, take a couple breaks in the afternoon.
Seth Nelson:
The actual information that's an evidence that gets on the screen is very small. And so, that's why your lawyer needs to decide how to put it all in there and to tell your story through questions and answers. But when you're going this, along the way you can say, here's the information to your lawyer, how do you want me to give you this information? How do I even know what the judge decides. In Florida, check your local jurisdiction, please, but in Florida, the judge will look at 20 different factors in determining a parenting plan. You should get those factors. You should ask your lawyer, how does the judge make the decision on a parenting plan? It's right there in the law.
Pete Wright:
Do you have those on the tip of your tongue? Can you give us a few? What are some of those factors?
Seth Nelson:
Oh sure, absolutely. Is the child of sufficient age and maturity to have a preference?
Pete Wright:
If they're three years old, probably not, but once they're 12.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Now nowhere in Florida law, does it say does the kid get to decide? But it's one of the things that the judge will consider.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
The homeschool and community record of a child. If you have a kid that's a junior in high school and all of a sudden, a parent wants to pull them out and put them in a different high school, that might not work, right? They're doing really well in the school. They're involved in extracurriculars, their grades are doing well. They have friends, they have relationships, why are we going to pull them out of something like that? Mental and physical health of the parents. If you have a case where someone's just ill and they just can't care for a child, right? Not that they're a bad person, they just can't do it.
Seth Nelson:
Keeping kids free from a home with substance abuse, which is a whole host of problems, whether it's alcohol or drugs or illegal drugs or prescription drugs, or there's a whole host of trying to do that. Which parent is going to honor the timesharing schedule, the parenting plan? And be flexible, right? If you're always no, no, no, no, no, is the parent acting in their own self-interest or do they put the kids' best interests first?
Pete Wright:
You said something in the first part of our conversation that's coming back to me right now, which is, that from the perspective of going through this process, there's no, I don't know what fair is. Is there a definition of fair in the eyes of the court in this process?
Seth Nelson:
In Florida, family law is a court of the law, so you just apply the law, but it's also a court of equity of what's fair. In the legal world, we joke, oh man, when the law's on your side, you argue that law. When the law is not on your side, you're going to argue equity. And let me tell you, if I'm in court arguing equity, the judge already knows the law's not on my side, because I'd be arguing that first, okay? So there is a sense of equity of fairness. And when I present cases, I really work hard to give the judge different reasons to come to the same conclusion that I want them to come to.
Pete Wright:
Well, because it gets to, I think the ... Obviously, we've been talking a lot about kids because that is a central thing that we're splitting that determines identity and social development and all of that's very important. But in the eyes of the law and we're splitting toasters, what about folks who don't have kids who are just trying to figure out how to pull their lives apart from one another?
Seth Nelson:
Right. So when you're splitting assets and liabilities, inevitably, court's going to have to value them. How much is your house worth? What day are we using to say how much is your house worth? Are you going to sell it immediately after the divorce? And if so, do you get credit that you're going to have cost to sale, realtor fees and closing costs? If you have a 401k, when do we actually split it? If the trial, or even if there's an agreement that we're going to split it on January 15, but it actually doesn't get divided until May 15th, what happens if the market went up and down in between? How do we account for those changes? Are we accounting for that?
Seth Nelson:
Or are we just saying, no, this is the number you get and whether it goes up or down, this is the number you get and your spouse is going to get the remainder. So they're taking the risk that it could go down, they might get benefit going up. Or do you say no, we're both going to take the risk. We're going to divide it 50, 50. We're both going to take the risk. If it goes up, we both get more. If it goes down, we both got less.
Pete Wright:
In the eyes of the law, when you're experiencing a couple-
Seth Nelson:
This is one of my favorite lines though, because-
Pete Wright:
In the eyes of the law.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. And lady justice is blindfolded.
Pete Wright:
That's a great point. In the blindfolded eyes of the law. Now, I'm thinking specifically about, you're talking about all of these conditions and my assumption is that you're working with your lawyers who are working with each other and they are working to navigate some of these really complex questions. But if we're again talking about splitting the unsplittable, some of that comes back to you being able to navigate this together, right? You being able to come to some agreement that this is where the split occurs. This is what's going to be fair for us. At what point does the law say, if you want a divorce, we're going to assert ourselves and the court is going to say, it's going to be split here because you aren't doing it well?
Seth Nelson:
In Florida, if you reach an agreement on how to split your items, you can't split a house, right? Someone's either going to get it.
Pete Wright:
You can't split value.
Seth Nelson:
You can split the value, but it's the actual object, one party is going to get it or it's going to be sold. Those are the choices. There's all sorts of timing on when it's sold. Maybe someone gets the house for the next four years till the kids graduate, but either someone's keeping it or it's getting sold. In my experience, if you reach an agreement on splitting of your assets, the judge will review it to make sure that all the legal requirements in your final judgment are there. But the judge is not there to tell you you're not allowed to do it that way. The judge is not there to say, oh, you're really making a bad deal here. We don't have the nanny state, right? Judges are there primarily, they do other things, primarily to solve disputes.
Seth Nelson:
If there's an agreement, there's no dispute, there's almost nothing for the judge to do. But, if you both want the house and it can't be split and you want the toaster to stay with the house, then you're going to go to court and you're going to make the argument, judge, I want the house because of X, Y, and Z. And then, they're going to say, they want the house because of A, B and C, and you go from there.
Pete Wright:
I think that's a really important lesson in terms of a takeaway from this conversation, right? If you're going through this process, what is the expectation of your attorney? What is the expectation of the court when you finally get into court? And even though you may feel like they're talking to you like a child, sit there, don't speak until spoken to, the end result, can at least meet the demands of the court in terms of this fairness, right? You can get out of it and get back to the stuff that's really important, which we talked about early in the show, your family, your relationships.
Seth Nelson:
But I would bet if you ask any judge in a family law case, and they will tell you, both of you, both parties sitting in my courtroom are walking out of here unhappy, because you're not going to get everything you want. So they're going to split things and maybe you get the house, but you're not going to get the 401k.
Pete Wright:
Somebody's got to give in order for somebody to take is how it works.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. And so, you're walking out of there and it is such a short period of time that the judge has to take in all the information, have it come into evidence, evaluate it, and then make a decision that it blows people minds like, that's it, right? And these judges, especially the ones that have been doing it for a long time, or might've practiced family law, or have been on the bench a long time, they see case after case, after case, after case, after case, it's like better, right?
Seth Nelson:
The more pitches you see, the better you are, you just get the flow. And so, they can actually make fairly quick decisions, which some of the parties are like, oh my God, that's it? And I'm like, yeah, that's it. But this judge she's been on the bench for five years. She seen this case 1000 times, right?
Pete Wright:
She may not have seen your case, but she's seen your case, right.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
This is great stuff and I hope of utility to those who are going through it, at least to help set expectations of both how you're going to navigate splitting the unsplittable with your spouse and your families and relationships, and also how to get through the splitting process in and around the courts. Any final words you have for us Seth? Are we good?
Seth Nelson:
You know I always have more words because lawyers get paid by the word, right?
Pete Wright:
I buy ink by the barrel.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. I would say really talking to your lawyer about the different roles that people play, what does the judge do? How does the judge do it? As a lawyer, what are you going to do for me and how do you do it? As the client, what is my job and how do you want me to do it to communicate with you? I think asking those questions early on and the attorney client relationship is vitally important. It's always fair to go back and revisit it as you go along the way.
Pete Wright:
Perfect. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show, we appreciate your time and your attention, and we wish you the best in your divorce process if you are going through this yourself. You can find the show in the Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anywhere you find our podcasts. We encourage you to like and subscribe and leave us a comment. If you like the show, if it's helping you get through this process, please leave us a kind word. We're a new show and reviews in these podcast directories, they do help quite a bit. Until next time, on behalf of Seth Nelson, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll catch you right here on How to Split a Toaster.
Speaker 3:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law And Mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
This transcript was exported on Dec 16, 2020 - view latest version here.
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