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"Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin said these words about what it takes to actually impart knowledge on someone. In mentoring, these words prove true. These words also point to each of the three levels involved in teaching something to another person: the head, the heart, and the hands. But what does it mean to teach something at each of these levels? Zach is back this week with John Barnard from Middleman Ministries to talk through what it looks like to teach your mentee at each of these levels, and why each is important.
Show Notes
"Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin said these words about what it takes to actually impart knowledge on someone. In mentoring, these words prove true. These words also point to each of the three levels involved in teaching something to another person: the head, the heart, and the hands. But what does it mean to teach something at each of these levels? Zach is back this week with John Barnard from Middleman Ministries to talk through what it looks like to teach your mentee at each of these levels, and why each is important.
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Mentors and mentoring leaders, Zach Arce here with the You Can Mentor podcast. I got 3 things that I would like to ask of you today. Number 1, if you are a mentoring organization and you would like to be on our podcast or learn more about the best practices of mentoring, please reach out to us, www.youcanmentor.com. You can send us an email, zachzach@youcanmentor.com, or stephen, that's with a ph@youcanmentor.com. You can also find us on social media.
Speaker 2:Give us that DM and we'll get back to you. We just wanna get to know you and we wanna learn more about what you're doing in your communities to advance mentoring. And we believe that interaction leads to innovation. So let's work together and advance the team in through mentoring. Number 2, if you know of someone who would benefit from the You Can Mentor podcast, please share our podcast, share our information with them.
Speaker 2:That would be super helpful. And then lastly, if you could rate our podcast on Apple Podcasts, give us that 5 star. It will help spread the word about mentoring and, you can mentor podcast. Because we really do want every mentoring org in America who is trying to make disciples through mentoring to know about us. We wanna get to know about them so we can learn from them and work together to help kids reach their full potential.
Speaker 2:So that's what I got. Please do those things. Reach out to us. Share and rate. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2:You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. This is Zach. I'm here with my main man, John Barnard. We're back together.
Speaker 2:We're back together. Pat and Feim.
Speaker 3:Pat and Fine once again.
Speaker 2:And we're here continuing our series on the pillars of mentoring. I'm honestly just jazzed about it.
Speaker 3:For sure. Me too. You look jazzed. I truly am. I'm drinking my second cup of coffee today.
Speaker 2:Alright. Here we go. So the first installment in this podcast series was on David and
Speaker 3:Mephibosheth. Mephibosheth.
Speaker 2:And talked about King David, how he was a mentor, how he really helped out this guy whose name I can't pronounce, Mephibosheth. Perfect. And he called him up, and he gave him a purpose, and he gave him identity, and he surrounded him with community, gave him a seat at the table. Absolutely. David, King David, the mentor.
Speaker 2:I love David. I'm a David guy. Yeah. And I didn't even know about this story.
Speaker 3:Now you're even more of a David guy. Right? 100%. Man, I love that.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna get a David tattoo on my chest.
Speaker 3:Woah. In his in his wait. I'm trying to think about what he was dancing in his efod.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll just get, like, a stone and a slingshot, and people are like, hey, man. What's that?
Speaker 3:They're like, oh, bro. It's David. Woah, man. Those bros are gonna trip
Speaker 2:when they see that. Man. Alright. Here we go. Episode 2, we talked about what did we talk about?
Speaker 2:The 3 hats.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The 3 hats that a mentor wears. What are what are they? Do you remember? Just without looking.
Speaker 2:A farmer, miner, tour guide.
Speaker 3:You got it.
Speaker 2:The farmer's tossing seeds. They are focusing in on controlling what they can control, but knowing that God is sovereign and he's got this whole thing. For sure. The miner's doing what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. The miner's just uncovering. Right? Uncovering those valuable stones, finding them, and you know what then? Just sharpening.
Speaker 3:Right? Cutting cutting away, making them dynamic and beautiful.
Speaker 2:Polishing, putting them on display?
Speaker 3:For sure. Putting them in a nice setting?
Speaker 2:Like, there might be, like, a spotlight shining at an angle? Yeah. Brings out the Totally. Brings out
Speaker 3:the shine,
Speaker 2:I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And then the tour guide. It's like the as we go component.
Speaker 2:It's it is like, hey. You're on your journey, and I'm gonna be the tour guide. I am going to point out things to observe, point out things to watch out for, point out histories, different meanings, things like that to help you ultimately achieve what the Lord has called you to do. For sure.
Speaker 3:I was just thinking about this too, by the way, that we we didn't spend enough time, I think, or at least you know you know, like, when you're mowing and you're thinking about the conversation that you had, and it's like, oh, man. I wish I would've said this. But specific to this tour guide, something that I we didn't discuss, which is really interesting is when you go to a place and you have a tour guide sharing about this certain place, you know what's really awesome? That tour guide is the biggest fan of that place that they're sharing about. Right?
Speaker 3:You've never really gone somewhere and have a tour guide, you know, be haphazardly talking about. No. They're really like they love where they are. Right? They they're still in love with it, and I love like when they get excited to show even though they've maybe shown what they're looking at 20 times that day.
Speaker 3:They're still just as excited. Right? So is the mentor when it comes to living our life. You know? We have to be excited about it and and and desire to take a mentee to a place, you know, and, again, just show them all that there is to see and to enjoy in a healthy life.
Speaker 2:And I think so much of that comes from you yourself as the mentor, your relationship with the Lord being 1st and foremost, because there's different things that we encounter throughout different parts of our lives, throughout different parts of our day. But if you are walking with the Lord and if you trust that all things happen for a reason, that the Lord can work all things to the good of those who follow him, then whenever you're showing this, whenever you're talking about life, whenever your mentees going through something and you're supporting them through this, you ultimately know that God is faithful, he is who he says he is, and that he is going to make a way for your mentee to experience him through this journey.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's super cool. Mhmm. Because sometimes bad things happen, and you don't know what to say, and you don't know what to do. But you do know that God's got this, and you do know that somehow, some way, even though you can't see it, he's going to turn this bad into good. He's gonna turn this darkness into light.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Because
Speaker 2:he who calls us is faithful. I just kinda went off there.
Speaker 3:Good stuff.
Speaker 2:Alright. So we are on episode 3, and we're talking about the three levels.
Speaker 3:Lot of threes. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's a lot of threes. Threes are good, though. Yeah. So we're talking about the three levels that a mentor takes his mentee through whenever he or she are explaining something or presenting something or helping a mentee walk through a situation.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:And I think that this is really good because it kinda systematizes how you communicate with your mentee and kinda gives you a tool to put in your tool belt in regards to how to teach them, guide them, lead them through whatever they're experiencing.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. This can be circumstantial. So, you know, when you think about lessons that you might want to teach, this might be something that that happens as a result of, you know, when you when you kind of sit down and talk to your mentee and they're they're sharing maybe an issue or struggle that they're going through so that you're kind of reactionary sometimes as a mentor, or it could also be just a general lesson. You know, you might you might kind of have come out from your, you know, your devotional time with the Lord that day and think, oh, man. You know what?
Speaker 3:When I meet with Rick, like, I'm gonna talk about this. I wanna be able to kind of share what I just kind of experienced or to give them that same just understanding of, like, how God's word speaks and how, as we're gonna talk about, how it comes from what we understand and value to what we practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure. As a former educator, I was a teacher for a while. There's a certain art to get a kid to understand something. So if I just walked into my classroom and just gave the kids all of the answers, they would have the answers yes, but they wouldn't have the experience of having to struggle through something, of having to learn it themselves.
Speaker 2:And, ultimately, they will probably just forget the answer. But if you take them through a series of events that helps ingrain the answer and maybe even attaches an experience or a story to it, then they are gonna remember that a whole lot longer than if you just gave them the answer. For sure. There's this quote by sir Benjamin Franklin. I
Speaker 3:don't United him.
Speaker 2:I don't know if he's a sir.
Speaker 3:But That's
Speaker 2:but if there's anyone who should be a sir, it's Benjamin Franklin.
Speaker 3:I don't know if the queen knighted Ben Franklin. Just pretty history buffs.
Speaker 2:I think George Washington did.
Speaker 3:Check that.
Speaker 2:Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I may remember. Involve me and I learned. And I think that's so true as a pure teacher, as a father, as someone who tries to teach people things. You've got to figure out a way how to present, engage, how to teach in such a way that they're gonna understand it, and they're gonna learn from it.
Speaker 2:And it's engaging. It's not boring, but it's gonna be something that they're gonna hold on to for a long, long time. So Yep. And that's where the head part in hands comes in.
Speaker 3:That's it. Three levels.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna give a brief little overview, and then we're gonna deep dive it. K? Now John was a little bit concerned that we're gonna make this too complicated. Do you wanna speak to that?
Speaker 3:No, man. I I I just don't wanna overexplain.
Speaker 2:You know
Speaker 3:what I mean? I think that there's some good stuff here. So but I think you're you're talking about, hey, man. Let's take a 30,000 foot cruise over this thing Yeah. And then let's get a little bit closer to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let's go 5,000.
Speaker 3:Because it's all about understanding it and getting it. And and for your listener to be able to say, oh, you know what? This is super applicable. Like, I can I can use this? Just as you mentioned, this is a tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well and just like I naturally am going to go a tad bit deeper because because you're super deep. Yeah. Because I'm just so deep. You're so philosophical.
Speaker 2:Just I'm pretty much I don't know who's deep and who's philosophical, but that's me. Who is someone who's deep?
Speaker 3:In your life or just in pop culture?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just in pop culture.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I mean, Gandhi?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Wait a minute. This is a Christian podcast. I don't know if we can talk. Alright.
Speaker 2:We're getting off the rails here. So worldly. Okay. So the head is you've gotta make sure that your Minty understands it, that it makes sense, that that you are presenting what you're trying to teach them in such a way that they get it. Right?
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:So if I'm talking to an 8 year old and I use an analogy or a story about, you know, algebra 2, they're not gonna understand that. So it's teaching them in such a way that they get it and that it resonates with them. The second one is the heart. So once they understand it, once it goes through their head, then the heart is it influences them. It actually changes things in their heart.
Speaker 2:It makes its way from the head to the heart. It's that little 5 inch journey from knowledge to actually oh my gosh. Like, this hits. Right? 18 18 inches.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? I don't I don't really know what an inch is.
Speaker 3:Maybe with your head bowed
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's closer.
Speaker 2:Or maybe the person's just short. I was talking about a baby's head to heart.
Speaker 3:Gotcha. That makes total sense.
Speaker 2:And then so head, understand. Heart influences. But the hands is where you apply it, where it actually makes an impact. Where they can say, oh my gosh. So this is how this works in in in my life.
Speaker 2:Right? Not not in the mentor's life, but in their life. Right. Tell me and I forget. That tell me is kind of the headpiece.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Teach me and I may remember. That is kind of the heart piece. But involve me and I may learn. That's the hands piece.
Speaker 2:That's that is the I'm gonna teach you how to fish so you can fish for the rest of your life.
Speaker 3:You got it. Hey. What's cool about this too, man, as you're mentioning these things, just for those that are like me, they're visual. Right? Are you are you a are you like a kinetic learner?
Speaker 3:Are you auditory, visual? What are you?
Speaker 2:I don't know what any of those words mean.
Speaker 3:How do you best learn something? How if I needed to teach you a concept I don't know. Do I do you read about it? Do you need to hear about it, or do we do your do your hands need to actually work on a thing?
Speaker 2:I mean, YouTube. Okay. Okay. No. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:I I actually would I'd say I'm a visual learner.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Most is it cool if I just say that? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it it's a guy thing too to be visual. Yeah. So, anyway, I want you to kinda make this visual real quick of of let's just talk about, like, it being a a spiritual concept. Okay. Where does it start?
Speaker 3:It starts with the Lord. Okay. Mhmm. So visually speaking, right, we you know, it comes from heaven. Okay?
Speaker 3:And from there, it it hits us in the head where we understand it. Right? From there, the trickle down is into the heart where we where we say, you know what? This helps to continue to shape the design of my Christianity, of my faith. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Okay. And then from there, it keeps coming down to the hands. So, again, like heaven, maybe we just added another. Heaven, head, heart, hands. Okay.
Speaker 3:Adding the heaven was a little cheesy, but, visually visually, we do see that it that it comes from the Lord and that it reaches its fruition in our hands.
Speaker 2:It's almost like here's a different way to say it. You can read it in the Bible, but then the Holy Spirit changes your heart, and then you apply it by watching what Jesus did here on earth. Yep. That's my way was a lot better
Speaker 3:than yours. Your way was better. Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 2:Okay. Here we go. Head, heart, hand. So let's talk about the head. Why is the head important, John?
Speaker 3:Well, here's the deal. That these levels are all important because if there's a breakdown in one of them, there's a breakdown on all of them. Right? We just I think you mentioned earlier in being a teacher. You know, I can think about it through, like, in being one who served in the church as a leader.
Speaker 3:It is about communication. And the fact is, like, if if there's a breakdown in in the lesson that I'm trying to teach or the concept that I'm trying to bring, then I'm not doing my job most effectively. So I wanna be a really good communicator. Being a really good communicator means knowing your audience and being able to take the lesson or the thing that you believe needs to be learned and giving it to them in such a way that they can make that moment. So, like, I'm nodding my head right now.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, saying, yeah. Okay. I get it. I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2:The very first step in that is you have to know your audience. So you have to know your mentee. You have to know what they value. You have to know their story. You have to know where they come from.
Speaker 2:You gotta know their culture, and that is essential in regards to trying to teach them something that they're gonna understand.
Speaker 3:For sure. That's that's also knowing how do they process information. Right? Like, you know, the the the love language thing. Right?
Speaker 3:Maybe that has has something to do with it as well. Just knowing who they really are. So instead of kind of forcing your agenda or the way that you communicate onto a person, it's to say, you know what? I've been spending enough time with you and and listening to you, so I I get how you process. Like, I asked you the question, well, how do you best learn something?
Speaker 3:That's so important to know if you're mentee because that's exactly what you wanna lean into in order to make this work.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For
Speaker 3:sure. So that's the importance of the head. It's understanding that you have this information, and what you wanna begin with is sharing this information so that terminology doesn't get in the way. Right? Don't use your fancy words and have your listener understand what words, you you know, what these words mean instead of them just just nodding and saying, oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. No.
Speaker 3:Like, really understand that this is this is a logical conversation that you're that you're expressing. Maybe it's a a a truth from God's word. Case in point, Hebrews 138. Alright. Let's just use that as a very simple example.
Speaker 3:Jesus is Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Speaker 2:K.
Speaker 3:What a cool foundational truth. Right? Something that we can read and say, oh, okay. So what what my head gets from this verse is that Jesus transcends space and time, period. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, that's the that's the logical now does that result in lots more to understand? Sure. But But a lot of that's within, you know, then at the heart level. But just for the head to to realize that, oh, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever, means that he that God transcends through his son.
Speaker 2:And that right there is the head information. Right. But that's not gonna change your life until you somehow connect it to the heart. Exactly right. Exactly right.
Speaker 2:Great. So the head, it teaches new information. The the main word that kind of comes to mind whenever I think about this is knowledge. Right? Like, it's not enough just to give a kid a Bible because a kid is probably gonna have a hard time interpreting the Bible.
Speaker 2:They're gonna read a passage, and they're gonna be confused, and they're gonna have questions, and they're not gonna know what that means. And so but that that is an essential part of teaching a mentee something. It is logical. It is rational. It's kind of the here's how to be successful.
Speaker 2:It's that step by step process.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But you wanna explain it in such a way that after you're done, kinda like what you said, it's that moment. Oh, oh, so so that's what you mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, so this is what it means whenever you say Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that's why I think metaphor is so important. Right? And storytelling is so important because these are the tools that one uses when they're trying to get the point across to say, oh, you know what? Okay.
Speaker 3:If I'm talking about maybe something as abstract as the theology of the doctrine I'm sorry. Pick that back. The theology of trinity.
Speaker 2:K.
Speaker 3:Right? I mean, that's a foundational truth to our faith. Well, you know, when you think about, like, the Vacation Bible School kind of way of beginning to understand, although it's not comprehensive and it doesn't do it justice, this is where you start hearing lessons about using, like, the egg or the apple. Right? Because it takes something that is very abstract, and it makes it it brings it into that that metaphor or what Jesus would do in speaking in so much parable is to say, okay.
Speaker 3:Listen, guys. I'm trying to tell you this big this this truth for you to to have that moment. Well, guess what? It's like a farmer out in the field. Right?
Speaker 3:Or it's like a woman who's lost a coin. So that's that's kind of the the beauty of that and why it's important as a mentor to kinda have that value and understand that that metaphor, that storytelling, and other devices are really important in in getting the point across. Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 2:Some more examples of this is, like, if you wanna teach your mentee about money, if you wanna teach them finances, if you wanna teach them professionalism or hard work or integrity. Right? Like, these are kind of big words that your kid may or may not know. And so, like, yes, it's important for you to explain it in such a way that they leave saying, oh, so so that's why finances are important. This is why it's important that I be professional or that I am a hard worker or have integrity or know about da da da.
Speaker 3:So For sure. Yeah. I mean, that you're right. This could be a spiritual matter or just as you mentioned, this could be starting initiating a conversation about how credit cards work.
Speaker 2:Right. Just anything that you're trying to teach your mentee. So once you do that, once you have them saying, oh, so here's why it's important, then you move on to the heart. And why don't you tell us about the heart?
Speaker 3:Sure thing. So, again, we get it. It's the understanding, and then it goes down. And and as I mentioned before, it trickles down into the very definition of who we are. So, again, when I'm saying heart, I'm not saying emotion.
Speaker 3:This isn't about, you know, the difference between, oh, my whatever. You know, my head says this. My heart says this. We're not talking about that as much. We're kinda taking it to a deeper level, really, of what scripture says when it refers to the heart.
Speaker 3:It's not talking about your emotion. It's not talking about a percentage of who you are or a fraction. It's actually talking about holistically who you are. Okay? And so when we think about taking a spiritual truth and understanding it, okay, nodding our head.
Speaker 3:Okay. I made a connection to my brain here. But then what we have to consider is, well, how does this work to continue to add to the definition of who I am as a believer at the heart level? Okay? So just taking again the example of Hebrews 138.
Speaker 3:Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Okay. I get that. He transcends space and time. That's a huge concept.
Speaker 3:Now wait a minute. What does it mean for me as a believer? Well, wait a minute. Now, you know, I'm understanding
Speaker 2:what you got. It's almost like, why should I care about this? Mhmm.
Speaker 3:It answers the why. That's great. Please continue. Well, no, man. That's it.
Speaker 3:It's just to say, okay. Well, let's see. God has loved me forever. God will love me forever. I I'm as a as a believer, I'm a member of his family.
Speaker 3:He will never leave me, never forsake me. Oh, man. What else on earth gives me that kind of guarantee? Right? So now I can kinda compare that to say, well, you know, I'm I'm living my life in the midst of other relationships.
Speaker 3:I'm living my life in the midst of other things that wanna claim its identity over me to say, well, hey. You know what, man? You're a great football player. But wait a minute. As soon as I break my leg, am am I still a football player?
Speaker 3:No. See that's a temporary identity, and yet in my faith, I'm understanding that I'm a I'm a member of this family forever. So So it's not dependent on my performance. It's not dependent on anything that is of the earth in a temporal sense, but instead it's eternal. So, wow, to be a member of God's family from now until forever, man, that's huge.
Speaker 3:That goes to then start informing other things that I'm thinking about or other things that I'm viewing on this earth. Right? Because I'm now looking at it through that eternal lens of God being forever and and of my being a family member.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like if you want to be fill in the blank with the heart. So if you wanna be loved for exactly who you are, if you want to have your identity secure, which all of that's the heart stuff, you need to understand the head stuff. You need to understand that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So the heart is is the the next step in regards to what the head has learned.
Speaker 3:So it's like,
Speaker 2:here's how it matters. If the head says this is important, the heart says here's why, it impacts our belief, and it changes what we care about Right. Which is the ultimate end goal is to transform your mind, transform your heart for it to truly change your day to day. Absolutely. And I think just like what you said, stories help.
Speaker 2:Like, being able to use an analogy, being able to use a metaphor, being able to somehow someway take the knowledge and craft it in such a way that they understand it to where they care about it. Because if you just go up to a kid and say, hey, man. Jesus Christ is the same today or yesterday, today, and tomorrow, they're going to be like, yeah. So so what? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Or if you just go up to a kid and say, hey, here's why you need to understand finances, then they're going to be like, what what are you talking about? But it's our job as a mentor to take that next step and say, I know that that might seem weird, but here's why it's important to you. Here's why you should care about it. Do you want to be rich one day? Do you want to have your own house?
Speaker 2:Do you want to feel loved no matter what you do? Oh, well, yeah. Okay. Well, then let me take that a step further. Here's a story about why the head stuff, why you need this knowledge.
Speaker 3:And, you know, this is also cool, man. Just think about what you get to have the opportunity to share when you're when you go to your mentee with a lesson of saying, hey. I really wanna get this point across to you. It's almost like, you know, where where it's coming from is my head that understands it, and then I wanna put it into your head for you to also understand it. But how much more important is it to say, you know why I'm teaching you this lesson?
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Because this lesson is that I understand it at my at my heart level. And so the mentor gets to come along and say, dude, I'm so convicted of this truth that that's why I want you to understand it. Right? Isn't that so much more important?
Speaker 3:I think that people value when we come at them with a conviction. Okay? This is this is a heart conviction as opposed to just the brain's understanding. I'm not just sharing something at that level. I'm sharing something at this level, and it's much deeper and it's much more important.
Speaker 3:In fact, to the point of I this this spiritual truth is something that I use to define who I am as a believer and as a human being, and then it also goes on to affect who I am as a dad, as a husband, as you know, all my other roles in life are, like, informed by this spiritual truth.
Speaker 2:And you get a chance to say, hey. I have this in my life. I understand this. I'm chasing after this, and I want you to desire the same. I want you to desire having a heart that feels accepted no matter what.
Speaker 2:I want you to desire being loved regardless of what you do. I want you to desire being a good steward with what the Lord has given you. And, I mean, it's one thing to teach information, but it's a totally different thing to be creative enough to have your mentee say, oh, so so that's that's actually something that I want. That's actually something now that I care about, and I can see how that's gonna ultimately get me to where I ultimately wanna go.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. And it's also helpful for us as the mentor to say, you know what? I wanna have discernment over what I what I share as well. Right?
Speaker 3:I wanna only share a conviction as opposed to just something that I'm unwilling to kinda let get down to the heart level. Right? Because I can share it a piece of information with you, and then what happens is you kinda put it in your brain. Okay. I understand what you're saying, but then guess what you have to do?
Speaker 3:You have to you have to see if you actually agree with it or not. Right? You have to, like, as this as the word says, test the spirits. You have to say, wait a minute. Is this is this teaching or is this thing that you've that you've shared with me something that I'm willing to really put in at the heart level?
Speaker 3:And if you're not, if you don't have peace about it, you kick it out. Right? You say, hey. I don't I don't know if that's something that I would really say is is how I define myself or my my belief or or at the integrity level of who I am. Right?
Speaker 3:And so discernment is really important when we talk about going from the heart I'm sorry, going from the head to the heart level.
Speaker 2:And it might take a while, and it might be messy. There might be a bunch of questions. Your mentee might have to have to fight through it. Do I really believe this? But, ultimately, it's our job as a mentor to stick with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. It's great. So we are in we are impressed on the mind during the head level. We go from being impacted, and I think that those are some pretty important words too because we can be impressed with something.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. I'm impressed with that guy. You know? Or I'm I'm impressed with that. But there's a difference in just being impressed with something and really being impacted by something.
Speaker 3:And so
Speaker 2:And then that goes to the 3rd level, which is hands, which is where it influences your choices. That's right. Do you see what I did there with all the eyes?
Speaker 3:Wow. I know. Alliteration, man.
Speaker 2:We didn't even write that down. That was just off the dome. So good. Alright. So let's talk about the hands.
Speaker 2:So it's like if you want to be fill in the blank with the heart, if you really care about this, which is the heart, you need to understand this knowledge. You need to understand what what the head is trying to get. Here's how you actually do it. That's the hands. So the first level head, next level heart, the final level is hands.
Speaker 2:So why don't why don't you talk about that, John?
Speaker 3:So just think about, you know, the typical that that typical trope of, like, being in a math class and hearing this lesson. And, you know, what is what is the the student always say, well, wait a minute. Man, how am I gonna use this in the real world? Right? Or think about it like being at church and hearing the sermon.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's, you know, maybe the guy's really fiery or the woman is really really really bringing this lesson, and, man, you're just nodding your head and you're aiming everything. If it doesn't get to the point of the all important question, which is, so now what? And we have missed we have missed it altogether because think about how internal everything has been up to this point. Right? When you have something hit you in the head, okay, you get it, you agree with it, and then you've given it time to kind of marinate, and you've let it begin to affect you at the heart level.
Speaker 3:Well, my question is what does that do? How does that do anybody out here in the real world any good? Right? It's only when it gets down to the hands level because that is where I can physically see it. Right?
Speaker 3:And that's where our mentee will begin to understand. Oh, wait. This this lesson, this truth, this bit of information has not even really become anything until it is it's fleshed out in some way, until it's applied.
Speaker 2:I know I should love my neighbor because the Bible tells me so. I actually care about loving my neighbor because here's how it impacts my life. Now here's how I actually love my neighbor. I go serve at a food pantry. I talk to the kid who's sitting by himself at school.
Speaker 2:I invite the kid who no one invites to their party to my birthday party
Speaker 3:and so on. Exactly, man. And now so again, Hebrews 138. Oh, I get it. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and forever.
Speaker 3:Okay. So that means that he is eternal. Okay. What does that mean for well, now I see the comparison in this world between those many things that that I feel like are eternal, right, that matter so much, that that friendship or that that job that I missed out on or whatever, you know, a failure, whatever that just feels like it is so permanent. Wait.
Speaker 3:It's not because only Jesus is yesterday, today, and forever. So now how does that go to influence how I live my life in such a way that the things that I say and the things that I do are completely influenced by this this fact that God is with me forever. Right? And that I can't lose him. So now I'm gonna be making decisions in a different way based on the the eternalness of this relationship that I have with Christ, and that's gonna make people who don't know him say, why'd you do that?
Speaker 2:And it's our job as the mentor to walk alongside the mentee, to guide them, to mentor them, to show them, to help them while they do this.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:It's to watch them. It's to be an advocate. It's to be a cheerleader. And we get to say, hey. Now that you know this in your head and now that you've got this in your heart, here's how you apply it with your hands.
Speaker 2:You're gonna care about the things that only the Lord cares about, because those are the only things that are eternal. You're not gonna be able to die and take your car with you. But if you love other people, if you die to self, if you serve those who the world shuns, that's going to carry on forever. How can we do that together? What's a way that you want to embody that belief in your everyday life?
Speaker 2:That's awesome. For sure. All right. So we talked about the head. We talked about the heart.
Speaker 2:We talked about the hands. Now, why don't we talk about some pitfalls for the mentor if they are not thorough in all three of these steps?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. And I think the same can even be said for, you know, when you think about just understanding a concept that gets that gets brought to you from God's word, you know, from the pulpit, I think that we we can make the mistake of thinking that once we have shared that truth or shared that lesson and that they get it in their brain, cool. The job's done. We've we've done it. You know?
Speaker 3:That can be dangerous because that goes into, I think, that an issue that we see in the church, which is to say that you can believe something and yet not act on it.
Speaker 2:And you shall know what kind of tree it is based on its fruit. I think whenever I hear about all this stuff, I think back to my own mentoring relationships, and I think about how I'm just in such a hurry and how it's almost like my job is to fill my mentee up with as much information as possible. Because if they just have knowledge, they're good. Yeah. And once I'm done with that, once I teach them how to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, then they should be good to go.
Speaker 2:But I feel like in this, the Lord is teaching you, hey, trust the process. Be patient. It's a journey. Right? Like, Joseph went through these trials whenever he was tossed in the pit by his family up until the time that he was second in command.
Speaker 2:He went through 14 years of junk, but it was ultimately the process. It was the journey that the Lord was taking him through that ultimately was preparing him to lead, that was preparing him to become his best self. And if the Lord would have just given him a book, hey. These are the 8 things you need to know to be second in command. He went and got that, but it was through all these experiences.
Speaker 2:It was through all of these different journeys that ultimately got got it from from the head to the heart, and that ultimately impacted how he led and how he saw his family, how he forgave and all of these other things.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Absolutely. So you think about kind of that old parenting adage, right, that the parent says to the kid, hey. Do as I say, not as I do. That does not work.
Speaker 3:Doesn't. And it's a you know what? That speaks to inconsistency here. It speaks right into the heart of this when it says, okay. I've taught you these concepts.
Speaker 3:Like, I've told you what is right, and you should do the right thing. But wait a minute. When you don't see me do the right thing, don't worry about it. Don't worry about that. Okay?
Speaker 3:Do as I say, not as I do. Man, wait a minute. Would a mentor say that? Because all that you're doing there is you're showing that there's this this incredible disconnect to what we agree with, to how we define ourselves, and then to how we live our life. And there should always be great consistency between these things.
Speaker 3:And so I think that's another thing that we have to be very careful about to not we wouldn't obviously say that because of that just always feels so wrong to say. You know, I don't think I've ever said that do as I say, not as I do as a parent or as a as a mentor. But But we have to be careful because I think that if there is a breakdown in what we believe to what we do, then we are we're actually sending that message. And that is one of inconsistency, and that is one of hypocrisy as well.
Speaker 2:Because your actions determine beliefs more often than beliefs determine actions.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2:I do. Because kids are going to be what they see, and they're gonna believe experiences way more than they believe what you say. Right. So the best thing that you can do as a mentor is this last piece, this hands piece, which is ultimately what we want our mentees to do. We want them to get knowledge.
Speaker 2:We want it to impact them, then we want them to go out and change the world. We want them to fulfill their potential and for them to bear fruit, for them to make disciples, for them to become all that the lord has for them. But that's only gonna happen if they're they've seen someone do it before. It's one thing to tell a kid, hey. You need to love your neighbor.
Speaker 2:But the best way that they're gonna learn how to love their neighbor is by watching you love their neighbor, is by watching you be faithful and by watching you be humble and serve other people, because it's one thing to tell them to do something. And, yeah, that helps, but it's so much more impactful if while you're telling them to do something, the mentee is staring right back at you and watching you do that exact same thing. Because then you're not just talking the talk, but you're actually walking the walk. And I'm I am convinced that just you following Jesus with all of your heart, you embodying what the Lord has called you to do in your own personal life, that is the most impactful thing that a mentor can do for Mindy.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Even in the midst of doubt. Right? And so I think about that movie scene, Indiana Jones, The Last Crusade. Right?
Speaker 3:He's standing on the cliff. He looks across to the other sheer wall where he has to be, and there's no bridge in between. And what does he do? He takes that step of faith. There's a bridge there, but he can't see it.
Speaker 3:And so this so speaks into that as well, that last quote that you have, actions determine beliefs more often than beliefs determine actions. And that speaks into making a decision to do a thing when you're not 100% sure that everything's gonna work out. Right? But instead, you have that step of faith and based again on your belief, right, that God is good, that he is for you, that he will never leave, never forsake you. Well, man, how does your life show that?
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes that can be a really scary decision to make, but then you take that step of faith, and then your belief comes alive in that as opposed to, well, okay. I understand it. I'll define myself by it. That, again, that doesn't always automatically turn into now I will go do it a thing. Sometimes we can just live in that headspace of saying, well, yeah, I know God is good.
Speaker 3:I know God is good, and yet I can still struggle with really truly believing that he is and taking the step to to make my life, you know, to to go out and do this thing. But so often, we kinda have to make that decision to say, I don't know if if I can't guarantee that the end result will be what I wish it will be, but that's not going to keep me from going out and taking that step of faith and doing the thing. And, man, when you can stack up some of those stories and some of those accounts from your life and share those with a mentee to say, you know what? Just a few years ago, I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I really felt like God was telling me to do this. I did it.
Speaker 3:And now, you know, again, I'm still alive. Here I am just in front of you. Like, those those types of stories speak wonders into this very understanding of the levels of how how things work and how they become real in the world and how a mentee can be encouraged to make wise decisions.
Speaker 2:I think to follow Jesus today, especially if you're a young mentee, if you're just a younger person, to follow Jesus, to do his commandments, to live counterculturally is is terrifying. Like, why in the world would you love those who persecute you? Like, why would you, you know, follow Jesus and obey his commandments and do all of these things that don't make sense to the world? To actually call your to actually call yourself a follower of Jesus and to do what he calls us to do, you're gonna need some help. You're gonna need someone who's gonna walk alongside you and someone that you're able to ask questions to and someone that you're able to the thing about this head, heart, and hands is you're kind of constantly going back to the heart because I don't I don't know about you, but I doubt.
Speaker 2:I struggle. I mean, I'm I'm an adult, and I'm still saying, Lord, are you sure you're faithful? Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You've done these 18 things, but I still am having a hard time today. And so to have someone who can support you in that and who can speak truth while you're in that, that's almost vital because the whole world is against you in every I mean, the way of culture is going to speak against this. And so what a great opportunity we have as mentors to speak truth, to show truth. Hey. It's one thing to say the Bible says be faithful, But together, I'm gonna help that go from the head to the heart, but I'm also going to show you how I am being faithful.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to let you in on my struggle, and I'm going to teach you how to struggle well by struggling well myself.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So Yeah. That's it. I don't think it's ever been a more difficult time to be a mentor because I think we live in a time right now where it's like, take care of yourself or, you know, look out for number 1 or and, honestly, I don't think it's been a more difficult time to to be a believer as well with so many things under fire and and the difficulty of that. However, this is the beauty of of this and of the Lord continuing to be faithful to us that we are in the midst of this struggle, that we do have doubts, and that's and and the fact that we are forgetful people, even when times have been great, we continue to be a a forgetful people just like the Israelites.
Speaker 3:When God did something great in their midst and provided for them in such a way, what did he tell them to do? Go over here and stack up these rocks. And you know why? Because in the future, you're going to forget that this even happened. You know, the mind the way the mind works, you'll think, well, well, maybe it wasn't the hand of the Lord, but maybe it was just something naturally occurring in in in the world.
Speaker 3:And he said, no. I need you to be able to go over here and look at this thing and remember what I did to you today and remember and be able to show and to share those that come after you that this really happened. Mhmm. And that is such a beautiful picture of mentoring as well as we know that God is good and that and when God leads us through maybe a a challenge or a a valley of death that at the other end of that, he says, hey. Go pile up these rocks because a few years from now, you're gonna be walking with your mentee, and you're gonna walk by this.
Speaker 3:And I want you to be able to tell them what I did. And then it's not only for their benefit, but, look, just as you mentioned, Zach, in our doubt, it's for our benefit as well. It's that reminder. Wait a minute. God, you you have been faithful.
Speaker 3:You have been good. You've been with me each and every day just as you promised.
Speaker 2:And I think what a great opportunity we have as mentors. You know, so often the enemy or the world or our own lack of progress will will tell us that we're failing as a mentor. How come there's not fruit? How come this kid's, quote, unquote, not changing? How come they're not becoming everything that I'm teaching them?
Speaker 2:But what a great reminder for us as mentors to stay in the game. Stick with them. Do not leave them. Struggle. It's okay to struggle.
Speaker 2:It's okay to let them in on your life. Just let them see you walk life and persevere through hard times and have joy in difficulties and trust the Lord and consistently, you know, be a part of a church body and surround yourself with people who can encourage you. Even when things get hard, let them in on your junk and stick with them in their junk. Because, ultimately, if you don't quit, you win. I truly do believe that the Lord is doing so much that we can't even see because he who calls us is faithful.
Speaker 2:And he loves our kids. He he loves their heart. He is for the orphan. He's for the widow. He's for those who've experienced injustice, those who have experienced poverty.
Speaker 2:He sets the lonely in families. But so much of that, it it just takes a minute. So let us, as mentors, be patient. Let us, as mentors, remember that God didn't quit on us, and it's our call to not quit on these kids. And eventually, I do believe that if you're faithful, the Lord is going to change this kid's heart.
Speaker 2:Amen. That's it. Alright. Head. Teach these kids something.
Speaker 2:Teach them the word. Teach them skills. All of these things. Insert knowledge into them. But then it's our job to connect it to their heart.
Speaker 2:And then just join them in the struggle as they try to take it from the heart and put it into real life. As they try to love their neighbor well. As they try to, you know, figure out how to how to do finances and figure out how to go to college and figure out how to date well in a way that honors the opposite sex, and just all of these things. And the best way to do that is, yes, by teaching them information, but it's also by letting them into your junk and letting them observe how you do it. And also just helping them struggle well.
Speaker 2:You're not doing it for them. You're not giving them the answers. You're helping create an environment where they can ask questions, where they can doubt, and where they can ultimately try to figure this out on their own knowing that you've got their back in mind. That is the levels of helping a mentee process through stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They are. It's great.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, that's all I got. What about you, John?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. I'm topped off as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Good stuff. Kinda feel like I just went off there. Just a little bit.
Speaker 3:I think that you should feel free to. I guess this is my podcast. Yeah. You could do that.
Speaker 2:Did you hear that, Steven? It's my podcast.
Speaker 3:Don't even get me started about Steven. Steven, my
Speaker 2:ex girlfriend.
Speaker 3:My wife listened to this podcast, by the way, and she did then she texted me that she LOLed when I talked about being triggered by Steven. I just thought that was my that was worth it right there.
Speaker 2:I don't know if me and you are officially boyfriend girlfriend yet.
Speaker 3:So Dude, I don't I'm not gonna worry about DTR ing.
Speaker 2:Pause that.
Speaker 3:Okay. I don't need that. Okay? I need to keep my options open, dude. Alright.
Speaker 3:Easy fat.
Speaker 2:Alright. Here we go. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. Please holler at us. You can contact us by social media.
Speaker 2:Send us an email. Is anyone listening to this? If there's a topic that you want us to cover, please tell us because we're running out of things to talk about. But, if you missed all this, that's okay. We still love you.
Speaker 2:Remember this, you can mentor.