Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed departments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Success? Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack?
Intro:Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt, knowledge. Never fear, hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub Heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers.
Intro:Before we begin, we need to disclose that Devin is currently employed by HubSpot at the time of this episode's recording. This podcast is in no way affiliated with or produced by HubSpot, and the thoughts and opinions expressed by Devin during the show are that of his own and in no way represent those of his employer.
Liz Moorhead:That's right, Devin. You're on your own. You're on your own. You're a man on an island. That's what's up.
George B. Thomas:I would I would You're welcome. I would throw him a
Devyn Bellamy:a preserver.
George B. Thomas:I would be there for you, Devin.
Liz Moorhead:You would throw him a preserver. I'm not sure what you would throw me. After what happened before we started recording today, I don't know, George. I don't know what I'm in for.
George B. Thomas:He gets a he gets a, like, life vest. You get shade. Nice. What did I do? You didn't do anything.
George B. Thomas:You didn't do anything.
Liz Moorhead:What did I do?
George B. Thomas:It's just called entertainment, ladies and gentlemen. It's, no Liz's were impacted in the filming of this podcast.
Liz Moorhead:So Yeah. Just wait until you get my therapy bill. Alright?
Devyn Bellamy:We end
Chris Stilwell:up on
Liz Moorhead:Then we'll talk about who's dealing with harm.
George B. Thomas:Oh, for sure.
Liz Moorhead:We'll talk about who's dealing with harm.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Yeah. I'm out of here.
Liz Moorhead:Okay. Wow. This is turning violent
George B. Thomas:so quickly. Crazy. Like, I don't even know how we went from, like, vest and shade to, like, cannibalism and, like, thirty seconds.
Liz Moorhead:Our guest yet, but I can see our guest going like, so this is what I said yes to. I'm thrilled to be here. This is great. We are all thriving. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:We'll sit on
Liz Moorhead:that. Live, laugh, love posters at the bargain bin of home goods.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. We'll sit on that.
Liz Moorhead:Doing fine.
George B. Thomas:We'll do good.
Liz Moorhead:We're doing fine. Max, how you doing, Brad? Do you have your steering wheel? Oh, do you need a napkin?
Max Cohen:No. No. No. It is.
George B. Thomas:It's a night.
Liz Moorhead:It's a
George B. Thomas:night. It's a night. Holy crap.
Max Cohen:Cold. When I when I get super, super cold, I yawn. That's all. You've worked for
George B. Thomas:a company that their logo's a popsicle, bro. Yeah. Like, it's probably always cool where you're at.
Max Cohen:Still a
Liz Moorhead:human. Big popsicle can't throw you a parka? No.
Devyn Bellamy:Gee. We
Max Cohen:can't. It doesn't have arms.
George B. Thomas:Coat or a blanket.
Max Cohen:I'm just oh.
Liz Moorhead:Alright. Alright.
Max Cohen:Raine is
George B. Thomas:in, Liz. Raine is in.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah. Yeah. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Alright.
Liz Moorhead:You know what? Flawless segue. Hey, Chris. How you doing, bud? Welcome to Hub Heroes.
Chris Stilwell:Thanks.
Liz Moorhead:I am so excited. So we have my friend Chris Stillwell here today from the the Stillwell sales group. Right? So you do sales training and growth consulting for sales organizations and sales teams.
Chris Stilwell:Yeah. TSSG, the Stillwell specialist group, actually. That's true. Elevate it above sales and create specialists. No one wants to deal with a salesperson.
Max Cohen:Yeah. True.
George B. Thomas:True. I'm already liking where this is going.
Liz Moorhead:This is gonna be a super fun episode because if you spent any length of time in the inbound marketing space, the ideas that buyers have changed, how they make their decisions to make purchases, that's not brand new information. Right? This is the foundation upon which the entire inbound methodology has been developed for more than a decade. Still still though, as marketing and sales teams work to align more closely together and business owners look at their more old school sales teams to modernize their processes and platforms, there's still kind of a problem. While there are certainly tons of forward thinking and progressive sales reps and teams and leaders out there, there are still sales organizations that are struggling or resisting to adopt necessary changes.
Liz Moorhead:To be fair, this is one of my favorite things about a conversation Chris and I had earlier this week. Us Marketers and business leaders aren't exactly as empathetic or understanding as we need to be about why this might be the case. Because I think sometimes it's really easy to just flat out point our fingers at sales and go, you are the problem. You are the only problem. And that's just not at all what the case is.
Liz Moorhead:So for example, many years ago, when I was working at Impact, which is an elite partner agency with HubSpot, I was a content strategist on the marketing team. My boss came to me one day and said, Liz, you've genuinely been doing such a good job on the marketing team. I now want you to go be the dedicated sales content strategist. And because I am princess tact and have a very I don't have a filter between my brain and my mouth. I just blurted out, am I being punished?
Liz Moorhead:And I I felt like all of the fun stuff that I had been doing was now going away, and I was going to be sent to sad sales Island where nothing was gonna be fun and everything was gonna be sad. But it ended up being the most transformative year of my career because I learned firsthand how sales teams are looked upon as profit centers and relied upon as comp a company's revenue producers, but they are often left to fend for themselves with scores of broken promises, limited resources, and a distinct lack of understanding from other teams that they're supposed to be working with, which is why, Chris, I am so glad you're here. I hope you guys don't mind. I wanna go ahead and jump in with a question, for Chris. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Because you gave a talk earlier this week at a sales seminar, and you opened with buying has changed, sales hasn't. Why is that? What does that mean?
Chris Stilwell:Well, you know, the easiest way to put it is, it it hasn't needed to. You know, the thing is is the tried and true sales methods that were invented, you know, hundreds of years ago have worked astonishingly well forever because the technology behind selling hasn't really been updated. The issue is with the advent now of the Internet, right, which we are all now adjusted to. I'm sure most guys and gals in our age group didn't grow up with it, but grew up into it and are now adapting with it and learning it. Right?
Chris Stilwell:We're the only generation that's ever gonna be able to say that. So that's changed. Then, of course, Amazon comes along, completely revolutionizes the way that everyone buys. I mean, enough to, you know, permeate even like the largest retailers, Walmart, Target. They just try to be a copy of Amazon, but in a store form now.
Chris Stilwell:And then, you know, we had COVID nineteen, which basically took every traditional sales process and maybe old school sales person and flipped it on their head and said, hey, now you have to learn how to sell to somebody over Zoom. And you can't go into their house anymore and you can't even have a conference. You can't, you know, you just have to figure out how to be good at the structure and the substance. And I think because of that, things have changed so rapidly. Now, sales is left behind.
Chris Stilwell:I mean, 80% of a buying decision is made due to the marketing. Right? I mean, how often would you say that in the past used to exist? Mhmm. You know?
Chris Stilwell:So I I think the way we need to realistically look at it is marketing is updated, technology is updated, businesses have updated, but people are still using, you know, wind friends and influence people sales strategies. You know, like carpetbaggers and, you know, hard closes and, you know, focusing on logic when you're trying to sell to people. It's just not gonna work anymore. So I think if if people get the idea that the rest of the technology behind this arena has updated, let's update the sales, we're gonna start having better results.
Liz Moorhead:Now, George, I saw you head nodding and getting kind of excited as I was going through the intro and listening to Chris there. What are some of your initial reactions as we're going into this discussion? What are you excited to learn today?
George B. Thomas:Well, I mean, I'm I'm excited to learn things like, well, how can the sales professionals start to make the change? What mind set should they be, inserting into their brain? Like, what are the new best practices based on the technology? Things like that is is where immediately where my, brain is going. But it's funny because the thing that is just, like, basically slapping me, you know, right in the front of the cranium is I I'm I'm sitting here listening to Chris.
George B. Thomas:By the way, great voice.
Liz Moorhead:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:And, and and I'm I mean, I could I be more I love
Liz Moorhead:the voice. Narrate my life.
George B. Thomas:Like, I'm I'm trying to figure out out if he should be, like, a Marvel character or, like, next to the rock on the next Fast and Furious movie. I'm just trying to figure it out. But
Liz Moorhead:The next Fast and Furious movie. You know what my answer
George B. Thomas:will always be in that game.
Liz Moorhead:But but Devon, do not start.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. But but the brain is, like, I have this company that I help, and and I won't I I won't say what company. I won't say what sales rep. But, like, the amount of sales acronyms that they make it a point to say during our meetings, like, you know, I checked the pants, you know, because the bat is the bat bat the bat is the batchest. And I'm like, oh god.
Max Cohen:Just help me into
Liz Moorhead:the the batchest? Can we get that on a shirt, please?
George B. Thomas:I I did. No. I did put it on a hat. Lose the acronyms. I'm I'm like, dude, lose the acronyms.
George B. Thomas:Like, the like, you you anyway, that's like I'm laughing about it, but I'm like, I know that if there is a human that I'm engaging with in the inbound space.
Liz Moorhead:A what you're engaging with, George?
George B. Thomas:A human. Oh oh oh god. A human that I'm engaging with. In the inbound space, I know how many companies haven't even heard about or thought about inbound and how many companies have to be in this, like, a b c, Bant, one two three, you know, whatever it is. Like, too many.
George B. Thomas:Anyway.
Liz Moorhead:Well, let's let's dig into some of this here because so before we get to this idea of what the change should look like, Chris, I'd love to hear from you. What are some of the reasons you're seeing sales teams either failing or outright resisting the necessary changes that need to occur?
Chris Stilwell:Oh, wow. I mean, first of all, it comes down to ego. Right? The the sad part about being a successful salesperson is you have to have the same type of mentality that a successful athlete has, where you're on a team, but you're also yourself. Right?
Chris Stilwell:So it doesn't matter, like, what type of organization you're a part of. You still have to be your own star. So in a lot of organizations, people wanna be an individual snowflake. They wanna be the best that they can be. They wanna have their own techniques, their own strategies.
Chris Stilwell:Charlie does it his way. Danny does it his way. Mark's been doing it for seventeen years this way. So when you say that somebody's been doing something for a certain amount of time and now you try to tell that person, you know, hey, now this thing might be outdated. Let's try something new.
Chris Stilwell:You're gonna run into ego and resistance right away because you're basically shattering what someone's reality is and trying to break it down and restructure it. You know, so I I think that's one of the biggest hold ups you run into with people wanting to approach, say, something that's not BANT or DISC or something else that was created fifty years ago when we're talking about working with customers whose average age is probably 35 to 45, you know. So I I think I think looking at a realistic perspective from sales teams and saying, like, when are you going to update what you're doing if you haven't updated it is the best way to approach the situation.
George B. Thomas:You know, it's interesting, Liz. My my brain is going in a direction that I did not think you would go in this episode based on what Chris just shared because the word fear came to mind. And, like, if I'm a sales rep and I'm I'm working on commission, and for the last seventeen years, I'll just be Mark. Right? For the last seventeen years, I've been able to feed my family based on the, repeatable process that I can now do in my sleep.
George B. Thomas:If I think about changing, the immediate place that my brain goes is, well, what if I don't make as much, AKA fear? And my worry is that an understanding of humans is that so many humans aren't willing to punch fear in the face, push through it for change, and maybe Mark actually doubles his income over the next two to six months.
Chris Stilwell:Well, I mean, that's that's the thing. Right? Is I was talking to Liz about this specifically. Let's say that I come to marketing and I'm a business, leader. Right?
Chris Stilwell:And I come to the marketing department and say, hey, guys. We're gonna put into place a new software in a new marketing process over the next eighteen months. And we're gonna take out what we've previously done, throw it away and embrace this new change. You're all gonna look at me and go that might suck, but at least my paycheck's not gonna change next week. Right?
Chris Stilwell:Now, think if you're a salesperson and you're getting paid 80 or a % on commission. And some young guy comes in and says, hey, I know you've been making a hundred and $50,000 a year for the last fifteen years. I got a better way of doing this, and we're gonna switch it to my way with a bunch of new technology you don't understand. And I'm telling you, you'll make more money. Is he really gonna believe me?
Chris Stilwell:Or is he gonna think I'm trying to force him out by embracing technologies he's probably not gonna wanna be a part of with strategies that he's probably not gonna wanna get
Max Cohen:involved with? See you later. Right? Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Well, the thing that even goes a little bit more deeply with that too, if I'm recalling that conversation, Chris, is what I found fascinating is that even when you have sales teams though that understand they need to change, they're not always self aware enough about what actually needs to change.
Chris Stilwell:Well, you
George B. Thomas:got They
Liz Moorhead:know yeah. Talk to me about that.
Chris Stilwell:Yeah. I mean, you you gotta be realistic if you you if you tell somebody you have to change. Okay. But, like, what do I have to change? Right?
Chris Stilwell:And, like, how do I change it? And if I do change it, what do I do then? Right? So you you have to be realistic that that when you're saying to sales people, like, yeah, we wanna change. You get the thing that George just said.
Chris Stilwell:You think somebody's gonna show up with a four letter acronym and tell you this new method that's all of a sudden gonna sell stuff to people. The problem is that the substantial amount of sales training that exists is tactical training, Right? So it's like how to close better, or how to build rapport, or how to present your product better. But it's not a process how to make a better process, how to start with a greeting to a customer, how to bring them through a series of questions that figures out what they're actually looking for, how to flip the sale back around, engage the customer so that they understand it's about them, not about you. Having things like that is what updates a sales process and makes it make sense now as compared to in the past, you had to focus a % on product.
George B. Thomas:First of all, there was a thumbs up bubble that just happened on Chris's screen.
Max Cohen:Yeah. I saw
George B. Thomas:it too. Else see that? I'm like, what the freak is this? Somebody just did that in the audience. I think maybe that's, like, a new thing.
Chris Stilwell:I think that's the audience. I appreciate
Max Cohen:it, dude.
George B. Thomas:Crap. We got our first hub heroes thumbs up from an audience.
Liz Moorhead:And by the way, it wasn't to any of us. It was to a guest. We gotta step it up, guys.
George B. Thomas:I'm fine with that. But here's the thing. So this might be the podcast where we have said the word change more in, like, one podcast than we ever have. And I'm so curious. I wanna pull, like, the rest of us sitting here.
George B. Thomas:Devin, when if somebody was to come up with you, Max, I'm gonna ask you the same thing, and, Liz, if somebody comes up to you and says, hey, buddy. We're gonna change some stuff. What's your initial
Devyn Bellamy:gut wrenching? Excitement.
Devyn Bellamy:Yeah. I, my life has evolved around change in being at,
Devyn Bellamy:the the cutting edge of things. And so, I I I am of the mindset and the personality type that change is good, as long as it's thought out and there's a methodology. And we're not just nuking things and switching it up for the sake of doing it. The the kind of change that I'm a fan of, is is change that has, a why behind it, not change for the sake of change. I also am not a fan of sweeping change before people understand the lay of the land.
Devyn Bellamy:Like, if someone just comes into an organization and says, hey. This is how we're gonna do things now. Screw
Devyn Bellamy:how you've been doing things. I don't know how you've been doing things.
Devyn Bellamy:I don't care how you've been doing things that we're gonna do now. That, I'm also not a fan of because that just means that there's too much rigidity in their thinking, and they're not, open to adapting using the best practices that may or may not be in place. So but the short answer is I love change. If you're not changing, you're you're you're stagnant.
Max Cohen:You know, I did a good amount of, you know, selling at Apple, and I was in a sales role by tail end of my time at HubSpot. And, you know, so I've I've gone through this. Right? I mean and I have a lot of I do have a lot of you know, in in between those times, I was I was trying to, you know, get salespeople to adopt HubSpot as well, like, when I was working as an implementation specialist and stuff. So, like, I have a lot of empathy for sales folks not wanting to change what they're doing because, like, the fact of the matter is is, like, selling is already so hard.
Max Cohen:Right? Like, you're literally trying to get people to give you money, which is, like, a difficult thing. You know what I mean? Like, that's hard. And, you know, a lot of times when someone would come up to me, especially when I was in my role at Apple, and they'd be like, alright.
Max Cohen:We're gonna change this process. It was never, like, something that was, like, benefiting my ability to sell. It was always something that was benefiting someone else's ability to see how well I'm already doing my job. Right? Or it's or, you know, someone who, like, didn't understand what it was like to do my job thinking they're inserting something that's gonna be better when they haven't even gotten on the phone and, like, tried to sell anything.
Max Cohen:Right? So it's like, you gotta like, whenever what what I would do whenever I was trying to drive adoption with sales reps because every I I I'd probably been on hundreds of calls with salespeople that got HubSpot CRM, and they got their whole you know, the sales manager or the marketing people brought the sales team in. They're all sitting with me on the Zoom, like, why the why the fuck am I here? Right? And I have to be the one to convince them, like, guys, listen.
Max Cohen:I know this is like a new system and everything, but, like, there is stuff that can make your life easier. And I would have to, like, do a lot of leg work to be like, so are you guys doing this? Is this a pain in the ass? No. Is this a pain in the ass?
Max Cohen:No. Is this a pain in the ass? Yes. Okay. Let me show you this thing that's gonna make it less of a pain in the ass so you can see why this is important for you, not just your boss who wants to keep track of what you're doing.
Max Cohen:Right? So for me, it was like, you have to figure out what's actually making the seller's life easier because sellers will always look for a leg up. Right? But oftentimes, new technology is never presented that way or purchased with that being the intent. Right?
Max Cohen:So it always makes it really, really tough to change what a sales rep is doing because they know it works so far if they've been successful in that role. Right? So I don't know. A little bit of a ramble, but, like, that's kinda what's in my head.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. And as much as I love that ramble, I still don't know if you love or hate change. Like, if I came over and said, buddy, we're gonna change everything the the way that we do it in your organization or in your house. Yeah. If your gut response would be wee or oh.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Change is good if it benefits you. That's the you know what I mean? If it if it doesn't, you know, then then you're gonna you're gonna push back on it. Yeah.
Max Cohen:By the way, hold on. Hold on. I knew it. I I I disappeared for a second, and I just have to show everybody the band hat.
George B. Thomas:The band hat. This is
Max Cohen:this is gonna be and narwhals together.
Liz Moorhead:That's amazing.
Max Cohen:Anyway, that's a one Hey.
Chris Stilwell:Don't get me started on why I don't
Liz Moorhead:like the
Chris Stilwell:that we could do all that.
Max Cohen:We love belugas.
Liz Moorhead:We'll bring you back to that.
Max Cohen:And narwhals together, though. That's the thing. Right? So Oh,
Devyn Bellamy:absolutely. They're
Chris Stilwell:delicious from where
Max Cohen:I'm standing.
George B. Thomas:Oh, here we go again.
Liz Moorhead:Oh my god.
Max Cohen:Too soon. You fit you fit
Liz Moorhead:right in.
Max Cohen:You fit right in.
Chris Stilwell:Oh, okay. Good. Good. Alright. Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:I didn't know you guys recently had a friend lose a whale or something like that.
Liz Moorhead:Well, I mean, I was not hugged enough by belugas as a child, but that's also why I'm averse to change. So, George, did you want me to weigh in about
George B. Thomas:my thoughts on change here? Because I'm, it's funny because I feel like I'm getting the hub heroes correct answers because I hate freaking change.
Liz Moorhead:No. That's what I was gonna say. I don't like it. I don't like it.
George B. Thomas:Don't move my shit. Like, I want my stuff to be where I left it. Like, don't come clean my office. I liked it just the way it was. Like but but as far as organizations, I'm like, if we can make more money or we can have more time, maybe I'll embrace change.
Liz Moorhead:Embrace the messy. No. My feeling on change is this. I don't when people come to me with organizational change, at least historically speaking, I know exactly how Max feels. I was never in a sales role, but often when people are bringing in change, the change management strategy, the way by which they are communicating the change, talking about the change, it fails.
Liz Moorhead:And often you'll end up in scenarios where it's like, Max, how many times were people coming in to ask you to change your sales process so someone could claim credit for part of a sale?
Max Cohen:All the time.
Liz Moorhead:You know what I mean? Like like, that's you know, it's stuff like that. I think it there was a running joke for a little while though at Impact, Bob Ruffalo who runs Impact. We used to joke, like, tell Liz a big piece of news and let her sit with it for twelve hours before you ask for her response. Because my knee jerk reaction is, no.
Liz Moorhead:Why? I don't want to. I don't get it. I don't understand it. Now usually when I get to the other side of the change and when change when it's done in a meaningful way, where people are engaged in the process, like if you're going to change the sales process, have you talked to people in sales?
Liz Moorhead:Or is the first time they're hearing about the change when you're telling them that it's happening? Like, that's where I start getting really tripped up. Because if there is like, let's say you're making a massive change to the sales process. Right? Have you gone to people in sales?
Liz Moorhead:Ask them what was wrong. Ask them for their feedback. Ask them what they think the solution should look like. Stuff like that. Most times not.
George B. Thomas:They've read a book or they saw a speaker on stage, came back to the organization, and blew stuff up. Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:Oh, absolutely. I mean, Liz, in the last position I had before I started my company, we had a a marketing company come in. And that's exactly what they did is they they said, hey, guys. I know this business has been running for a hundred years and you guys make $50,000,000, but we're coming in. We're changing everything.
Chris Stilwell:And we were just like, oh, okay. But we don't even know you. You don't even know what we do. And all they would do is just simply tell us things they were gonna change, and then never actually be able to change them. At one point, it's actually really interesting because we were having issues with our fulfillment with the installs in the field.
Chris Stilwell:And the lady was in the meeting and this terrible, terrible marketing woman, and I said, how have you guys fixed the install issues they have in the field? And she said, Chris, we don't do installs. I've never done installs. I wouldn't be able to help them with that. My response was, oh, that's interesting because you've been quite involved with the sales process.
Chris Stilwell:Yeah. And this is coming from a person who doesn't know how to sell. She knows how to market, which makes her think she knows how to sell. But when you're doing what George said, which is actually sitting across the table from somebody and asking them for money, that's not marketing. That's tough to do.
Chris Stilwell:And you have to have a process and you have to be able to do it. So I believe just like understanding Max's point was the best point, which is this. If you don't know how to sell what I'm selling, don't tell me I should be doing it differently. Get on the phone, bang out some sales, and show me that you should be doing it differently. I mean, that's why I started my company.
Chris Stilwell:I've been selling for twenty years, and I've been making so many business owners so much money for so long that I was like, how long am I gonna keep funneling this up to other people before maybe some of it stops at me? Yeah. You know what I mean? The problem with commission is you know the percent you're getting, which means the other percent is going to somebody else. You know?
Liz Moorhead:I have a question from the audience from you because, like, it is related to this. So Salima asked a great question. Let's say you have an organization that sees a need for a change because the process is, quote, not working, But the reps don't feel like the process is broken. So how do you approach that?
Chris Stilwell:That's actually very consistent. That's a a huge lack of self awareness. So what this comes down to is this is actually having your own statistics in your head. Right? So if I ask somebody, what's your closing percentage?
Chris Stilwell:That's a question that asks consistently in sales. And it's a thing marketers wanna know all the time. Right? You guys need to know what these teams are closing at because you wanna judge how good leads are and where they're coming from. And, you know, maybe the Google leads close at a higher percentage than the, you know, than the Facebook leads or whatever it comes down to.
Chris Stilwell:Well, when you have sales people who think they're doing good, all it comes down to is look at their paycheck. If you got sales people who aren't making 250 or $300,000 a year, they're not doing good. Because at any job with the current climate that we have right now in America, with the ability to sell products that you can with the skill sets that exist out there, you can easily be making middle to high 6 figures working forty hours a week with a good sales job. The problem is people just don't think that's an opportunity. So when you have a team of people who are all used to making 70 or $80,000 a year on commission, they think they're crushing it at 40% closing rates.
Chris Stilwell:Their sales cycles are three or four weeks. They think things are going great. The thing is they don't realize there's an opportunity for things to be better because exactly what these other guys are saying. They feel like if somebody like me comes in and says, guys, I can make your closing percentages go up and your sales cycles go down. They think, yeah.
Chris Stilwell:But how much extra work am I gonna have to do now? Mhmm. Right?
Liz Moorhead:Yeah. Like, speaking of extra work there, it reminds me of a conversation you and I were having about, you know, marketing leads or business leaders coming in saying, well, we wanna quote unquote fix your process. And meanwhile, you then you end up with sales reps who are struggling because thanks a lot for all these changes that have now reduced my amount of time to sell or you've just created more work for me. How does that happen?
Chris Stilwell:It it it happens consistently because the the thing is it's it's like this. It's it's so to be a a good salesperson, again, you have to have that athlete mentality. You have to have that Tom Brady, Michael Jordan mentality of I am gonna get out there and I am gonna, like, just kick ass and crush. Right? Does that does everybody get where I'm coming from with that?
Chris Stilwell:Does that seem toxic or does that make sense?
George B. Thomas:I mean, other than you use Tom Brady, I'm good.
Max Cohen:Yo, chill.
George B. Thomas:Other than that Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:Come on. He's the go. He's the go. So, I I mean, realistically, what it comes down to is to have that personality and have that way of thinking, and to to to have that thought process kinda causes you to be egotistical and not be able to see the light the right way.
Devyn Bellamy:One of the things that I've found has worked for me in the past, when I'm implementing change that affects commission is I will take just one person and implement that change with one person and let that person be the bunny that leads the other dogs to the finish line. Because when I'm dealing with egos, and this was this is something I found a lot when I was younger, not so much now that I'm in my forties, but when I was trying to implement change when I was like in my twenties or early thirties, people just look at me like, ah, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just a kid. I'm like, alright. And sometimes I had to be that dude myself where I was just a, okay.
Devyn Bellamy:You do it your way. I'm gonna do it this way that I know is going to work better, and watch what happens. And then destruction, mayhem, and people would just what? How? What what just happened?
Devyn Bellamy:And and so sweeping change may not always be the answer when, when change management, especially in a sales org, is in place. Because the problem with dealing with these people who are used to operating on a certain level, they think that they're elite championship, people when they're really in the triple a's. And, it's like, okay. Like Wolf of Wall Street, when he walks in and just instantly crushes a sale, and these guys don't even make that kind of money in a month. And he does it on one call.
Devyn Bellamy:And so it's like, alright. We're we're I'm I'm just gonna show you. I'm not even gonna tell you. I'm just gonna show you. And then when you come to me and ask me how it's done, now it's time for in this or or or, company wide, change management and building up from there.
Chris Stilwell:And that makes sense, though. Right? Be because And that makes sense, though. Right? Be because if you have the right organization, you have the right process built, you could take that process and kinda drop it into any different sales structure.
Chris Stilwell:And kinda that's what he's kinda showing with the Wolf of Wall Street was like, hey, you know, we were doing these these I was doing other sales like this. Why can't I treat use the same structure for these penny stocks. Right? And that's how I think about it. And the way I think is so funny and like, if if you talk to the average salesperson and I'm not trying to dig at people, guys.
Chris Stilwell:I'm a sales guy. I've been selling for twenty years. It's what I love to do. It's who I work with. But if you talk to the average guy and say, could you just write your process down for me?
Chris Stilwell:It's gonna be a hard no. They're gonna tell you my hand's broken. I got carpal tunnel. I don't know how to use that kind of pen. I'm not used to that paper.
Chris Stilwell:I've actually gotta go. I I peed my pants. They're gonna give you, like, every excuse possible to not have to write their process down because they don't have one,
George B. Thomas:man. Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:You know what I mean? Think about it. 90% of us got into sales because we were dropouts and losers. We we weren't gonna go to college. We needed to learn how to do something, and they said, look, you can't actually change the oil yourself, but you could probably get somebody to buy a card to change oil.
Chris Stilwell:I said, oh, okay. I probably could do that. What do you what do you need to teach me? Like, well, we're gonna teach you on the job. Look, there's not a lot of jobs where you're gonna become an expert if you're learning on the job.
Chris Stilwell:Mhmm. And that's what's so crazy about salespeople. It's like, if I said to you, hey, I wanna hire you as a salesperson. What's your sales structure? Could you explain to me how you go through a sale?
Chris Stilwell:Most people can't.
Devyn Bellamy:Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:They just can't. But if I turn to marketers, right, and I said, could you take me through how you'd build a basic marketing campaign for a small to medium sized business with a budget of $200,000 a year? Easy peasy. You'd be able to give me a quick rundown of, oh, yeah. First thing we do this.
Chris Stilwell:Second thing we put this into play with link up their SEO. And so so that's a process. Right? And if I go to a guy in the field who say install stuff and I say, hey, man, you're gonna build this website for us. Right?
Chris Stilwell:How are you gonna do it? He's not gonna go. I just do it. He's gonna tell me step by step. Oh, you know, first thing I do is register the domains, pull this stuff up.
Chris Stilwell:So that's where sales has the biggest problem, right? Is those egos I was telling you about, Liz. They don't wanna develop a process. They don't wanna write it down. They don't wanna look at it and say, how can I analyze this?
Chris Stilwell:One of the biggest things I see is the three biggest objections people run into. Right? And and and for most industries, it's the same type of thing. It's like, let me talk to my spouse. Right?
Chris Stilwell:Or, let me talk to my business partner if it's it's b to b. Right? And then the second one is, I need some time to think about it. Right? People tell you they need some time to think about it.
Chris Stilwell:And what's the third biggest one? It's price. Right? But we know that none of those three things are actual real objections. We understand that those are surface level basic objections that people are gonna tell you because you haven't done a good enough job at getting them to understand the value behind your product and that they should move forward with it today.
Chris Stilwell:Right? So what you'd say to a normal person is, well, you keep getting those three objections, Chris. What have you done during your sales pitch to work in pre handling of each one of those objections? So that on the next call you go to you can't run into one of those three. Most people are gonna tell you well you can't do that.
Chris Stilwell:It's just not possible. I mean, some people just need to think about it, and other people really wanna talk to their spouse, and maybe the price is too high. No. Just be better. Learn, develop, write.
Chris Stilwell:That will make you better. It's the difference between having a script and no script is the difference between going to a stand up comedy show or an improv comedy show. I mean, improv comedy show's okay, but you don't usually see them taped and put on Netflix. Right? It's because it's hard to watch and people don't really like it.
Chris Stilwell:So if you have a process and you have a script and you refine it to get the result you're looking for, you'll be a better salesperson. It's just not something a lot of people wanna do.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. It's it's so interesting because and now this is gonna be quick, Max, and you can go. But, like, as I hear you saying that, Chris, it's like it's easy to practice a process. Yes. It's not easy to practice just like the ether.
George B. Thomas:Like, you can't practice the ether.
Chris Stilwell:Yeah. The the phrasing that every sale is different is because you allow every sale to be different. That's what it comes down to. That's like a doctor different person than the other person, but I still have kidneys. Mhmm.
Chris Stilwell:You know, like, it's it's if you don't have a method for something, it's gonna be different every time. So instead of it's so funny because everything in sales is everyone else's fault. Well, the company didn't give me a process like, alright, cool, man. Well, you should make one up then. You should own that.
Chris Stilwell:Right? Like, you should take that on yourself to to to to make it. So every time I'm out there it's an experiment and I'm doing it the same way every time and I'm trying to figure out what my results are. If you're closing percentage is 40% but you do every sale differently, what are we even talking percentages for? Right?
Chris Stilwell:I mean, if when and when it comes down to salespeople, they're like athletes. You have to look at statistics and you have to be real with them. If somebody's batting percentage drops off, you can't keep starting them because you like them. The team's not gonna win that way.
Liz Moorhead:Max, what do you got?
Max Cohen:Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm resonating a lot with the, you know, salespeople don't wanna do that bit that you were talking about because, like, I definitely didn't want to. Like, I, you know, we've I I I often say, like, I'm I would I was I was you know, when I was at Apple and I was at HubSpot, like, it was I was a great salesperson, but I never considered myself a good one at all. Right? Like, I'm I'm fully convinced that the only reason I was able to perform the way I did is because I truly loved and believed in the products, and I didn't feel like I was lying to sell something.
Max Cohen:Right? It was always and, like, that's you know, I I don't know how other people who, like, I'm interested in getting your thoughts on this honestly because there's and because maybe this is just something that works for me. Like, I think it's really tough to be a good salesperson if you don't actually care about what you're selling and who you're selling it to. Right? Like and I'm sure this 100%.
Max Cohen:Like, it's in I'm sure people can deploy different methods and skills and stuff to do it, but I think it's really hard to enjoy it, especially if you have, like, a conscience. Right? Like, for me, it was always super easy selling HubSpot because, like, I know how fucking cool this thing is and how great it is and how how much it can actually help you. Right? And for me, it was a very easy genuine converse I never did scripts or, like, needed frameworks or anything.
Max Cohen:It was so easy because I actually understood what the hell I was selling that I could have a genuine conversation with someone and tell them, yeah, it's gonna help you. Or no, this isn't a good fit for you, and I don't wanna create a bad customer for my CS friends down the line. So I'm gonna move on to someone who I know is a good fit because there's billions of them out there. Right? And like, so it was easy for me to do that, right?
Max Cohen:Because I really, really understood what I was selling so I could cut my losses where I know it's not going to be like worth going down that path with someone and go to someone that is. And I knew there were more of them out there. Right? But, like, I could you couldn't drop me in a and and mind you, I had, like, tenured, longest, most successful sales reps at HubSpot telling me, if you
George B. Thomas:were in AE, AE, you'd be
Max Cohen:the best salesperson HubSpot's ever had. And I would go, probably not. Right? But, like, I've had multiple people tell me that, and it's only because I knew the product so well, and I could have genuine conversations about it. I didn't have to bullshit people and I could actually get people super stoked on it.
Max Cohen:Right? But you couldn't go drop me out of Salesforce or another SaaS company and expect me to do the same thing. That's the thing. I did not do not possess any of the skills that could it could be like, okay. Cool.
Max Cohen:Go sell me, you know, go sell this. No. Nope. If I don't know what it is, I don't I don't love it. I can't do it, dude.
Max Cohen:Like, I I can't. So Okay. I'm weird. I'm really weird. Like, I can sell the ass out of HubSpot and and Apple products because I love them, man, but, like, you you put me in for trying to you sell me this pen?
Max Cohen:I mean, I don't know. Am I really into that pen? If I'm not, I'm probably not gonna try to sell it to you, bro. Like, I can't do it.
George B. Thomas:I don't think you're weird, though. I don't I don't
Chris Stilwell:think you're weird.
Liz Moorhead:I I wanna hear what Chris has to say about this. Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:Well, look at it this way. Right? What you just described there is basically every what we like to call entrepreneur, but really every small business owner in America is like, hey, I really like flowers. Yeah. I'm gonna I can talk about flowers so I'm blue in the face.
Chris Stilwell:I'm gonna open up a shop selling people flowers. Right? So then you could sell your own product and be good. The the issue is most people don't have the luxury that you do of getting to sell the product that they love. They have to have a damn job.
Chris Stilwell:Right? That's why I'm like, for me,
Max Cohen:I'm really careful about giving any kind of sales advice because it doesn't my my
George B. Thomas:Makes sense.
Max Cohen:Experience, I think, is so I don't wanna say, I'm unique. But, like, it's it's very it, you know, it's it's it's it's different than what a salesperson is gonna experience selling another product. Right? It's it's it's very different. Sure.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Totally.
Chris Stilwell:So so if you look at me, I look at it in a way of growth in scaling organizations. That's what my business does. Right? What we do is we help you grow. One of the things like Liz was saying that we can do is sales training, but really what's more important is the process.
Chris Stilwell:Right? Because you don't have the luxury of going out and finding employees who necessarily love your product. Yeah. Right? Like, I'm I'm in a I'm in a good position now, because I own a company where I get to sell myself.
Chris Stilwell:And I'm narcissistic as hell, so it works great. Right? Like, I could just talk about me till the end of the you know, I just flex a little bit and tell them a little sob story. It's me, you know, people love me. Like, so I could talk really big about myself.
Chris Stilwell:But I've actually found that now I've lost my ability to kind of sell other things to people that I'm not as passionate about. Right? But the thing is I have a great process. Yeah. So even if you heard me sell to, you know, for one of my clients, whether it's IT or staffing or generators or in home services, you would think, wow, Chris really loves this thing.
Chris Stilwell:Like, just just for instance, I I happen to win a sales award last year for Generac. And it was a pretty big deal. I didn't expect it to happen. It was huge for me and it's what made me quit my job and create this company. Right?
Chris Stilwell:But what's what's funny about it is one of the guys I was talking to at the conference, he comes up to me and he's talking to me about an install that he's doing. And he's telling me, oh, and we sold this size job and this size line and all this stuff. And I'm standing there staring at him. He goes, man, you you look like you don't have any idea what I'm talking about. And I said, oh, yeah, bro.
Chris Stilwell:I have I have no idea what you're talking about. And he's like, oh, wait. I thought I thought you were the guy who sold the generators and won the award. I said, oh, yeah. I can sell them.
Chris Stilwell:I don't know how they work. I don't know how to install them. I don't know anything about the parts. I don't even know the SKUs. I just know that they keep the power on if your power goes out so your family doesn't lose the lose the food in the fridge and grandma's ventilators didn't turn off.
Chris Stilwell:And the guy's laughing. He's going, how do you how were you able to sell these and you don't even know anything about them? Because I'm not selling the product. I'm selling a process. Mhmm.
Chris Stilwell:Right? Yeah. You can place anything in the process. As long as the process is done correctly, it's going to work.
George B. Thomas:Well and I think too like, my brain is, like, ready to explode over here, Liz. Like, here's
Liz Moorhead:the thing. I'm excited to see what happens.
George B. Thomas:Like, for for everybody that's kind of paid attention to hub heroes over the last, what, 50 plus episodes, they know that for me, it's all about the humans. And and so when I go into this, I I I would I would never have, by the way, classified myself as a salesperson, but owning my own business has proven that, dang gone, I'm pretty good at what you would call a salesperson. Except the problem is I'm not actually really selling anything. I'm so focused on the human, and I'm focused on
Intro:the problem.
George B. Thomas:And I'm focused on the process that the humans need to create. Right? And because I'm passionate about the human, I understand the problem that they're facing, and I've done a re enough research to understand a process that can solve it. I can almost sell anything, which is why I can talk about why you should do podcasting for your business, why video is the actual way to go for one to one sales, why you could do lead generation with, like like and you could just go in all these different directions because it has deep to do with HubSpot other than HubSpot is the tool that allows us to do all the things that we know we can do?
Chris Stilwell:Oh, absolutely. People ask me all the time when I'm selling to them. They go, well, why should I buy HubSpot? I had somebody say it to me the other day. They go, we're looking at Salesforce, but why should I buy HubSpot?
Chris Stilwell:I go, I don't care if you buy HubSpot or not. It's working for me. Is well, yeah. For sure. But but if I first of all, I gotta be detached.
Chris Stilwell:Right? I can't be attached to that sale. But like I said, I go, it what you're actually buying is working with me. I said, I don't sell Salesforce. So you have to make the decision whether you wanna work with me and my products, which I could change in six months.
Chris Stilwell:You're still gonna stay with me though. Yeah. You know? And I think that's what it comes down to is is is is having that process and making someone understand the product isn't important. It's the solution you're looking for that's important.
Chris Stilwell:It's the result that you wanna get that's important. Right? And and and you guys have been talking a lot about emotion. I just wanna bring this up. You know, Harvard did a business study and and of course, it was on, you know, corporate selling, but we try to extrapolate that out because b to c studies are really hard to do based upon specific customers.
Chris Stilwell:But what they found was 30% of people made a buying decision based upon logic. Right? So based upon facts, figures, money, that's how 30% of people made a buying decision. But the other 70% made a buying decision based upon emotion. Right?
Chris Stilwell:So so what you guys are talking about here is you're emotionally invested in HubSpot. You're emotionally invested in success of other customers. You're emotionally invested. So that emotion is coming across the customer. And they're actually feeling that from you.
Chris Stilwell:And they're getting emotional which is triggering the buying process. Right? And if you wanna get modern, you wanna understand the difference between old school sales processes and new sales processes. Old school sales processes focus on the product. They focus on features, benefits, feedback, what your neighbors were doing, what other people had success.
Chris Stilwell:If you wanna do a new school sales process like ours for instance, it focuses on the emotional behavior people have. It focuses on getting people to trigger and work the way that emotions work because these days, people have all the information on the product that they need in the palm of their hand. So if you think you're gonna sit down and tell them some fact or figure or show them something about HubSpot that they haven't seen before and that's gonna make them buy, you're crazy. You have to get somebody to understand what is this product going to do to impact my life in the future. And moreover, what if I don't move forward with this today?
Chris Stilwell:What if I kick this can down the road six, seven, eight weeks and I run into the same issues I've been having because I didn't make this decision? How is that going to affect me? And if a salesperson is able to elicit those emotions for me, then I'm gonna say, yes. I'm gonna go forward. I'm gonna I'm gonna make a move to do it.
Chris Stilwell:But if I just like the product and like the price, it's not necessarily enough to get me to to want to buy
George B. Thomas:or to buy now. So so here's the thing. When I hear you say that, Chris, if I'm a SVP or, like, head of sales, the immediate question I walk in after listening to this episode and ask my sales reps is around how much do they care. Because if I don't care, I'm not evoking any emotion. Like, none.
George B. Thomas:Like, you you have to be able to tie into that to do what you're saying in this new modern sales, like, process.
Max Cohen:George, can you, George, can you
George B. Thomas:call have
Chris Stilwell:to be good enough to fake it.
Max Cohen:Yeah. George, do you qualify care about what?
George B. Thomas:Well, I think the human.
Max Cohen:To care about the person you're selling to or care And
George B. Thomas:I think and I think the hurdle that they're trying to get over or the aspirational goal they're trying to reach. And that that for me, by the way, is the trifecta that I'm always paying attention to anytime that I'm talking to somebody is who's who's the human, where are they stuck, and where are they trying to get to. And inside that, I'm gonna find the magic tools, mindsets, best best practices, strategies to, like, lay down in that specific moment. Like, that's my triangle of specificity, if you will, that I'm always paying attention to.
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:So the cool thing is, George, if you can develop a process good enough, not saying that you don't right now. Right? And let's say that you look at your average call right now. Right? For instance, and you say, you know what?
Chris Stilwell:I talk to these customers. I'm passionate. They love me. I love them. I'm on the phone with them for an hour and a half and I close them.
Chris Stilwell:That's great. Awesome. Now you say all of a sudden, hey man, I wanna make more money next month. Right? Like I don't I don't like how much money I made this month.
Chris Stilwell:I wanna make more money next month. So it takes me an hour and a half to close a person, which means that if I schedule two more calls each day, I can work an extra, I don't know, twelve, fifteen hours a week. So each month I'm working an extra sixty hours a week, but I'm gonna make more money. But what if you could dial that process down that takes you an hour and a half to get that emotional commitment from the customer to twenty minutes. Right?
Chris Stilwell:So now, you can get that same reaction that you were eliciting with an hour and a half conversation or a two hour conversation that you had to go through this whole thing to get all this emotion out of this person and connect with them and get them to buy from you. If you could boil that down to less questions and make it maybe twenty minutes, now you could sell to three customers an hour as compared to three customers a day. And now you're doing what you said you wanna do, which is you said you care about humans and you wanna help people. So right now by not having a good sales process, George, you're actually hurting your customers because you're not offering all of them your service at the level they could be buying it from you because you haven't decided that you think, hey, these people led me into motion. Could I do a little better?
Chris Stilwell:Maybe.
George B. Thomas:Chris, where do
Chris Stilwell:I sign up?
George B. Thomas:Where do I sign up? Can we
Liz Moorhead:talk about the fact that we basically now need to have Chris back, like, once a month in sales therapy? Because, like, the amount of feelings that we've been working through today. I wanna end today's conversation, actually, Chris, by asking you a question I asked you a few days ago in front of an audience because I think it is the answer that you gave was so critically important. So the question I asked him was this. Let's say you have a sales organization that is head nodding along with Chris.
Liz Moorhead:They're like, I get it. I freaking love this. You're absolutely right. Process is great. Scripting is like, all of these different things.
Liz Moorhead:You're right. We haven't changed in the way that we need to change. How do well meaning, change seeking sales organizations still fail? What are the mistakes that they're making in an in an attempt to affect change that are avoidable.
Chris Stilwell:The biggest one is not enabling your team with the tools necessary to get the job done. If you had guys who were doing deliveries and you'd you bought them a cart, Said we're gonna deliver on the cart, guys. You got a bike in the front of it. You're gonna pedal it down the road. And somebody said, hey.
Chris Stilwell:You could just buy a truck and make that delivery easier. But you went, woah. There's a little bit of an overhead investment. We can't do that. We don't wanna buy a truck.
Chris Stilwell:That's the same way that people look at sales organizations. It's ridiculous. They won't buy that truck. They won't make the investment into the better technology to make the job easier for their staff. So what happens is you run into sales organizations that say like, yeah, we wanna do scripts.
Chris Stilwell:We wanna do playbooks. We would love to have better communication with the customers. We wish we could send emails explaining our products to them. We wish we could do video tutorials, and I wish I had a list of how to follow-up with people, but we're using Excel spreadsheets. Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:So what are you doing? You've invested in a new fleet of trucks for your for your delivery guys, but you won't get a CRM for your sales team? It it what it comes down to is if you're not enabling your salespeople by putting the modern technology and the modern training into place, then they're never gonna be successful in a modern arena. So if you want to walk the walk instead of just talking the talk and get better sales and you wanna have be serious about your business, put the technology in a place that's gonna allow your people to have time back in their day to focus on income producing activities and building revenue for your business.
Liz Moorhead:George, Max, Devin, you know, I'm not even gonna bother saying one thing. What's the most important thing you guys are walking away with today's conversation? I'd love to hear from it, you guys.
Max Cohen:I think I I have one more question I wanted to ask Chris. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:You do? Okay. Wait.
George B. Thomas:So it's
Max Cohen:it was
George B. Thomas:Go ahead.
Max Cohen:And and and maybe this is, like, kind of I think the thing that I and and maybe this is a a piece of advice I'll I'll I will give because I think it's relevant to anything even if you're not selling HubSpot or whatever it was that I was, you know, that I that I sold. I think a a universally important thing to do is whenever you're having sales conversations with folks, you should always try to make it and not try to make it look like this, but actually make it like this, where it's not a negotiation for money where I'm on one side of the table and you're on the other. It's more so we're sitting on the same side of the table looking at the same problem and trying to figure it out together. That's at least how I tried to always genuinely approach things. Right?
Max Cohen:And I think there is a difference between genuinely approaching it that way and having that be your internal mindset of how can I sit next to them on the table and look at the problem together and and, attack it together, right, and say this is what I bring to the table, this is what you bring, and this is how we put it together and solve that problem versus I think it's very different than than actually doing that versus creating a perception of that's how it is? Right? So I think it's important for the salesperson to, like, be able to genuinely do that in their own head. Right? You know, versus make it look that way.
Max Cohen:But I don't know if you have thoughts on that, Chris.
Chris Stilwell:Of course. I mean, what it comes down to is that's process.
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:Right? So so so realistically, the easiest way to explain it is if you were teaching somebody to play an instrument.
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
Chris Stilwell:Right? And you said, okay. I I want you to do these chords here and that you taught them all the chords. That's great. Now there might be a spot inside the that that song where you could do your own little riff for your own little thing, but the rest of the time I need you to do the chords because that's what makes the song sound good.
Chris Stilwell:It should be the same thing with the sales process. What you're saying is absolutely right. I wanna sit down on the same side of the table, but I need to have a process that works for it.
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Chris Stilwell:And then I could throw in my little emotional stuff here or there to get them on my side. But whether it's sitting across the table, on the same side of the table, or in a different room, you have to have a process that works.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:I love that. George, Devin, what are your big takeaways from today? Because, by the way, Chris, we're definitely having you come back. We we clearly have lots of sales questions that we wanna talk to you about.
Chris Stilwell:Great. Don't worry. I I literally have nothing going on, so I'm good.
Liz Moorhead:Nothing going on. It's fine. Yeah. You know, I'll just come running down the hall. He and I work at the same coworking stage.
Liz Moorhead:Come on. We have more sales questions for you.
George B. Thomas:There you go.
Max Cohen:Same side Wait. Same side selling is what I just said a thing?
George B. Thomas:Yeah, dude. Ian Aultman, a buddy of mine, wrote the book Same Side Sell literally, the words that were coming out of your mouth, I'm like Alright. Well, here's the deal. He doesn't know.
Max Cohen:I, yeah, he doesn't know.
Liz Moorhead:Second generation selling.
Chris Stilwell:It's it's it's second generation selling. It's good selling. Yeah. It's it's definitely good selling.
George B. Thomas:I don't I don't read
Max Cohen:I don't read books.
Liz Moorhead:We just get balloons on Chris.
George B. Thomas:A friend.
Max Cohen:Guys. That coming from?
Chris Stilwell:I swear I'm not paying my wife to do that. That is not like a thing I even know. I I just was afraid that I I was afraid that was was the end. You guys like, hey. Here's balloons.
Chris Stilwell:We'll see you. We're gonna do another podcast after
Liz Moorhead:this. Seriously? Apparently, people just really like you, and they don't like us. This is so hurtful and disappointing.
Chris Stilwell:Oh, wow. Can I hear you guys' balloons? Is it possible for me to do that? I'll throw
Devyn Bellamy:some balloons in.
Max Cohen:Is it is it hand gestures? Is that what they're saying on the chat?
George B. Thomas:No. I don't think so. Anyway, okay. Let's bring this in. So here here's like, so okay.
George B. Thomas:I'm gonna go because, Devin, I know you still need to go, and I know I wanna be cognizant of Chris' time. For me, Liz, I am gonna keep it to one thing. This this episode has proven to me the importance of understanding the people that you're serving, connecting their head to their heart. Because when you can connect the head to the heart, you get to the wallet. Now notice I mentioned wallet last.
George B. Thomas:You're literally taking care of the Human. First. And then you'll reap the rewards out of that after.
Devyn Bellamy:Change management sucks.
Liz Moorhead:Devin?
Devyn Bellamy:That's it. That's the post. Change management is not fun. Oh.
Max Cohen:Oh my god. Tweet.
Liz Moorhead:Mine is pre is not as simple, but it's it's a simple one. If you are the marketing leader, the business leader, the whomever who isn't in sales looking to affect change from within sales, look at yourself in the mirror and ask who you're really trying to help. Are you trying to help yourself or are you trying to help sales? If the answer is the latter, are you going to talk to them about the change you've already decided going to happen? You have a large problem.
Liz Moorhead:You need to go back a few steps and involve sales in the decision making process to affect change within that organization. What I feel I'm walking away from today feeling a lot of empathy for sales teams who are asked to do so much to literally carry companies on their back.
George B. Thomas:Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead:But they are under resourced. They are often they they don't even bother asking for training because companies won't give it to them. They won't give them the they're like, here, I know you wanted Hub Spot but did you how about an abacus? That'll be fun. Like, you know, like it's they're like they're asked to to work in the stone ages.
Liz Moorhead:Right? And then we wonder why they're so prickly. We wonder why they don't trust us. We wonder why when we're like, what's your process? They're like, why do you wanna know?
Liz Moorhead:My hamster has an IRS audit. I gotta go. Like, we wonder why they run from us. We wonder why they don't wanna tell us anything. But Chris, before we let you go for today, how can people find you and get in touch with you if they have questions or wanna know anything?
Chris Stilwell:Oh, well, so, the company is, TSSG. It's the Stillwell Specialist Group, and, you can get us at wearetssg.com or follow us on social at wearetssg. And, you'll see my, wonderful little corgi, Kite. He's my buddy. He's our mascot.
Chris Stilwell:Oh, dude. He is on the website and he is not for sale. But if you have a good enough pitch, he might be
Liz Moorhead:he might be willing to jump ship.
Chris Stilwell:Dang. Dang. No. Yeah. So check us out.
Chris Stilwell:For sure, you know, the the company's great. We just got today, gold status with HubSpot. We've only been a HubSpot partner for six months.
Max Cohen:Nice. Let's go.
Chris Stilwell:So that might be a record. We'll see. And there's just more down the pipeline and, you know, we're just growing and and really just helping people, try to expand their business, create more jobs, and create more more money for hardworking entrepreneurs and individuals who are busting their ass to get this country running again.
Liz Moorhead:I love it. Well, everybody out there listening, thank you for joining us, and we will talk to you all next week. Look at that. Only two minutes over. We did it, guys.
Liz Moorhead:Good job. Victoria. Happy.
George B. Thomas:Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode. Make sure you head over to the hubheroes.com to get the latest episodes and become part of the league of heroes.
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