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NWA Founders is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, and is hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
'NWA Founders' is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
To recommend a guest or ask questions, reach out at nwafounders@gmail.com and follow us on YouTube and LinkedIn for video content.
[00:00:00] Are Traasdahl: One third of all the food made in the world, one third is lost in the supply chain before it gets to the consumer.
[00:00:07] Nick Beyer: These companies had to know that food's going to waste. Yes, so they were doing it internally, maybe just not doing it well enough.
[00:00:13] Are Traasdahl: We have to do it as a triple bottom line. Good for the world, good for our customers, and has to be good for us.
[00:00:18] Nick Beter: We handle that much growth without things breaking.
[00:00:20] Are Traasdahl: No things are breaking. Innovation doesn't happen on the costs. Innovation in retail happens. Right here. The companies that want to be a leader, they need to come here.
[00:00:42] Nick Beter: Well, Ari Tral, thank you so much for being here on NWA Founders this morning. We're sitting in the ledger in downtown Bentonville, in the arcade office, um, which you launched. Fall of last year. So, uh, yeah, tell us just a little bit about your background. You've built some remarkable companies in the [00:01:00] technology space over the last, uh, 15, 20 years, and now you're sitting in Bentonville, Arkansas, and you're investing time, resources, dollars here.
[00:01:10] Nick Beter: Why are you building here?
[00:01:11] Are Traasdahl: AB absolutely fell in love with, uh, with, with the, with the, with the community here, um, and the innovation and the people and the excitement, uh, the optimism. Uh, it's the only place like you can land in the world and the Uber driver. Actually gives you a sales pitch or how great it is.
[00:01:29] Are Traasdahl: Um, try to do that in New York. They'll tell you about all the things that are wrong with New York. Right? So, um, the, um, so I love that. And then, um, this area attracts incredible, um, incredible people to move here and, um, and, and, and, and build air. We, uh, at crisp and my other, uh, endeavor here mm-hmm. Uh, in, in, uh, in, in, um, in Ben Mill or Northwest Arkansas is, uh, also, uh, kinda benefiting from [00:02:00] this whole retail and the innovation that happens in, in retail and, and being in the retail capital of the world.
[00:02:06] Are Traasdahl: Um, retail innovation. Doesn't happen on the coast. Uh, coasts here. Doesn't happen. Even Europe, it happens right. Uh, right here. Um, and, um, uh, but there's so many other incredible, uh, growth opportunities, uh, here as well. So I, uh, I love it here and very excited and happy to be a part of the community.
[00:02:26] Nick Beter: That's awesome.
[00:02:26] Nick Beter: And when you say retail capital for someone who. Isn't familiar with that term or isn't familiar with your space, what you're doing with Crisp, what you're doing with Arcade. Why, why is this the retail capital? What does that actually mean?
[00:02:39] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, I would, uh, it's obviously the history of of, of, of, of, uh, of Walmart and Tyson and, uh, JB Hunt and, uh, EV and, but everything that's built in and around that as well.
[00:02:50] Are Traasdahl: Um, you have, uh, four or 500 of the largest, uh, consumer goods companies. Based here as [00:03:00] well, or at least based a large portion of it here, pro and Gamble is 400 people in Fayetteville. Mm-hmm. Right. So it's, um, so it's, it's also the innovation that happens, uh, in and around, um, how they can build better, uh.
[00:03:14] Are Traasdahl: Uh, consumer goods, um, uh, products and how, uh, how how can the innovation is really happening here. It's the most advanced, um, market, uh, in the world. Um, so, so that's the, that's exciting to be, be here from that perspective as well. But, um, but the arcade, um, now with through Arcade, we are seeing if we also can.
[00:03:37] Are Traasdahl: Uh, help kind of a broader, um, uh, growth of cost companies here in, in northwest Arkansas as well. Can we get others to move in? Can we get more, uh, companies to discover, uh, how, uh, uh, what a great place that is? So, um, so the crisp and arcade kinda helping to help helping, uh, from both sides. There's
[00:03:55] Nick Beter: awesome, and we'll talk about both of those in depth, but let's.
[00:03:58] Nick Beter: Let's go back to early on. So you're [00:04:00] from Norway?
[00:04:00] Are Traasdahl: Yep.
[00:04:01] Nick Beter: Born there and grew up there. When did you move to the States?
[00:04:04] Are Traasdahl: So I grew up in a, in a small place in Norway called Fundra, and it's 8,000 people. Um, so it's a, a lot smaller than, than, than, than than Bentonville. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um. Uh, kind of early on, excited about, um, building and creating.
[00:04:22] Are Traasdahl: Um, had, uh, when I was like 10, 11 years old, I put this little, uh, coin operated, uh, door lock. So, uh, my mom had to put, uh, a quarter. Uh, in, and that would automatically open, uh, open the door. Um, it's still the best business I ever built because it was a a hundred percent margin. It was no costs at all. Um, and, uh, but it, it lasted only for, for three, four weeks before she said, I'm not paying and walking in here and picking up its clothes from the floor and cleaning them.
[00:04:57] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so then I had a hundred percent churn, [00:05:00] uh, in the business. So, uh, the customer, I learned about the. Customer concentration is really bad. Mm-hmm. If you have one customer, uh, and then they turn. But, um, yeah, I always try to recreate that, that business because, um, it was an an, an a technology driven business, all the real problem and, um, was very profitable.
[00:05:19] Nick Beter: Hmm. So moved here. Did you go to school? Did you go to school in Norway and then move here? Or what brought you to the States?
[00:05:27] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, I did. I went to a technology, uh, school, uh, in Norway and I was similar to what an MIT is. Mm-hmm. In, uh, in America. Um, and, uh, got, uh, got. Recruited in to do consulting, um, but was very fortunate that one of the consulting project was to start a company.
[00:05:46] Are Traasdahl: So, uh, they hired me, uh, to come in and help these incredible founders to start write a business plan and, uh, do all of that type of stuff. So I did what a normal consultant would do with write all of this up. Was [00:06:00] very happy with my own work. Gave them this, uh, PowerPoint presentation and at the last page it was like the 10 things you guys need to execute on this very, it's very simple.
[00:06:09] Are Traasdahl: Um, and then they said, ah, how about you come and you deliver on this plan? That's right. It's a lot, lot harder to do it in real life than to do it. Uh, easy to get Excel. To show revenue growing. It's very hard to get that, uh, to happen in real life. So that was the biggest punishment for a consultant was to have to go and implement your own, your own business plan.
[00:06:32] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so, uh, so after that, that's kind of my entrepreneurial, uh, career, um, started. So, uh, that's now 25, 26, uh mm-hmm. Years ago.
[00:06:42] Nick Beter: Mm-hmm. So let's talk about thumb play. That was 2000 early two thousands. Is that what. Is that kind of the timeline?
[00:06:49] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. Yeah. So I, um, one thing that, um, back then, at least not anymore Scandinavian, uh, had, was very early advanced use of [00:07:00] cell phones.
[00:07:00] Are Traasdahl: Uh, 'cause you had, uh, Nokia and, uh, and Ericsson and these mm-hmm. Uh, company companies, uh, in Scandinavia. So it was very early like, uh, music and video and interactivity on phones. This is 20. Over 20 years ago. Um, so we built the company in Scandinavia. That was the first one in the world to do that. And then, uh, one of the investors, um, uh, I said, I wanna go to America and do this.
[00:07:29] Are Traasdahl: Um, so then that's how I. Landed in New York, not knowing anybody and trying to kind of build a company in, in the us. Um, we had a knowledge and expertise about kind of how this would work. So we actually did manage to get the company off the ground. We're the first ones to send text messages to television.
[00:07:49] Are Traasdahl: If you remember kind of American Idol long time ago, we would vote mm-hmm. For things on tv. Um, so we were the first, one of the first ones to, to, to launch that. [00:08:00] Uh. Remember my, uh, head of operations got flown into, uh, Las Vegas and, uh, was sitting at the production trailer for, uh, for the, for a, for a Big Fox, uh, live television show.
[00:08:16] Are Traasdahl: And it was our big break, which was supposed to then overlay this, uh, this, this text messaging thing. Uh, but we couldn't. Test it. Um, uh, it had to be done there. And then, um, and when he plugged this in, he got 30 seconds before we were going live. He plugged it in and realized that the form of a television in Europe are different in the than in the us So it was completely wrong.
[00:08:40] Are Traasdahl: Um, so then my head of operations. Threw up. Uh, he was so nervous that he threw up inside of the production bus, uh, for these very high powered, uh, LA producers. Um, and then magically managed to get this thing to work, uh, right before it went on. Went live for 10, 15 million, [00:09:00] uh, million viewers. Uh, and then the, these producer had to sit in this, in this production bus for the rest of the, for the rest of the, uh, the broadcasting.
[00:09:11] Are Traasdahl: Um, so. So that was kinda the beginning of the, the, the, the companies that I built in mm-hmm. In America.
[00:09:18] Nick Beter: So thumb play was the way it was my research described. It is a subscription service and it allowed users to download music and on their, on their phones.
[00:09:27] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was
[00:09:28] Nick Beter: 9 99 a month. And you had 10 credits or something.
[00:09:30] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. It was way before the iPhone launched with mm-hmm. Uh, with, with the, um, with Apple. Um, music. So there was, uh, a very early version. We were the second largest seller of music, uh, in, in the us. Mm-hmm. Um, and uh, still a small market at that point, but uh, that's what you can download music and videos and content to your devices.
[00:09:52] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so a a hundred million dollar business. Yeah. Um, which was, uh, so it was exciting first, first, uh, [00:10:00] first company in the us.
[00:10:01] Nick Beter: And would you describe that as like, were you too early, were you right on time? Like how would you describe that?
[00:10:07] Are Traasdahl: Oh God. Um, I was definitely too early as a CEO to be like late twenties, early thirties, uh, with a hundred million dollar company that I was, uh, and grew from nothing to a hundred million dollars.
[00:10:21] Are Traasdahl: Three years almost. So, uh, I learned a lot of lessons around team and technology and pricing and all of that, so I was definitely too early. But, um, but then we, it's what, what we sold, sold it then, uh, to, um, to, um, clear channel and that's now iHeartRadio. So, um, that's a big piece of what on the iHeart radio, uh, technology.
[00:10:43] Are Traasdahl: So ended up being a. Uh, something that a lot of, uh, consumers use. So, uh,
[00:10:49] Nick Beter: and you've had a couple exits. I mean, how do you, how do you know when it's time to sell a business that you've built?
[00:10:55] Are Traasdahl: Uh, you know, it's when people are really desperately trying to buy it. [00:11:00] Um, um, and, um, it is, um. It's, it's, um, for us, I, I've never actually tried to build a company to sell it.
[00:11:10] Are Traasdahl: Mm-hmm. I tried to build companies that are ahead of its time. Um, so when the, you know, rest of the world realizes that this is a problem that needs to be solved and that there is significantly technology investments that need to happen, that's, uh, was true for my next company tapa that we sold for, uh, for, for, for a big amount.
[00:11:32] Are Traasdahl: Um, that was definitely true for that was that we invested 10 x more in technology than any of our competitors. Um, so, and, and doing that ahead of the market, actually being there is, is, is, is, is, is, uh, difficult, right? Because the end of spending 30, 40, $50 million in, in technology investment with no, no, no revenue.
[00:11:54] Are Traasdahl: Um, so, um, but if you then are right. That the market is actually coming, [00:12:00] uh, in your direction, then it's very hard for others to kind of catch up. Um, that's kind of what we're seeing with, with Crisp, uh, now as well. Um, similar thing, we had 30, $40 million invested and no, no revenue. Um, and um, but then with ai, now obviously everything is data and ai things are really kind of exploding in that field and now that technology, uh, advantage that we have built.
[00:12:27] Are Traasdahl: Um, now, now we see the reason that we had to build, invest so much capital type of thing. So I'm trying to focus on the big customer problem and just build incredible technology, get incredible team. Uh, together. And then, um, that leads to some kind of positive outcome.
[00:12:44] Nick Beter: So the flip side of that, right? If you're the first mover in the market, you invest millions and millions of dollars.
[00:12:49] Nick Beter: A lot of, a lot of these, some of these industries, um, these people will go in, they'll invest millions, and then they can't ever figure out how to make revenue. Yes. They have to shut [00:13:00] down.
[00:13:00] Are Traasdahl: Yes.
[00:13:00] Nick Beter: Someone, their competitor comes in, buys all the technology they invested in Yep. For 40 million. They buy it for 10 million.
[00:13:06] Are Traasdahl: Yes.
[00:13:07] Nick Beter: How have you avoided that?
[00:13:09] Are Traasdahl: Uh, by succeeding, by not, uh, failing. Um, uh, and by, uh, by kind of turning the corner around when do we actually start monetizing. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, trying to always. Think about it from driving one to 10 ratio. If I deliver $10 in value for my customer, I can charge $1 for it.
[00:13:36] Are Traasdahl: That seems like kind of a fair, um, like if I can deliver a hundred million dollars in value for. Our customers, I can maybe charge $10 million, right? For, for, for it. So I'm really looking at that in the beginning. Where, when do we get to a point where we drive, um, so much value for our customers that it's fair for us to also increase our prices.
[00:13:56] Are Traasdahl: Um, so once, once we have that, uh, in place, [00:14:00] then we can get into the monetization, uh, phase of it. But, um, earlier companies are built. We started from the getting, uh, the right kind of. Marketing and the right sales and the right business development and all of that first, and then we build technology later.
[00:14:15] Are Traasdahl: Now I'm in inverse, all of that. We're focused on building the best technology and then layer, layer on with, uh, the other things, uh, after. So, um, and I think also it's comes with just getting the right team in place, like, uh. Working 80 hour weeks, right? There's no, there's, there are no shortcuts, uh, to, to, to, to building companies in.
[00:14:38] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so it's, uh, 78, 80 hour, uh, weeks still. Um, and same with the, the rest of the team as well. So it's, um, so I think there, there's north kind of seek secret to success. I think it's just hard work.
[00:14:53] Nick Beter: Yeah. Well, let's move on to, to tap ads. So that was kind of 2010 ish launched that [00:15:00] obviously it sold, uh, I think in 2016 I read for 360 million.
[00:15:04] Nick Beter: Talk a little bit about that journey before we get into CRISP and, and what you're doing here in Beville and Springdale.
[00:15:10] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, the, that was. Kinda founded on premise of, um, uh, and legacy industries. So that was kind of advertising marketing, uh, where transactions was mostly people met for lunch and had to, uh, cocktails and then a few hundred million dollars exchanged hands, uh, after.
[00:15:27] Are Traasdahl: So that was the legacy way of, of doing, uh, media buying. Um, but then that became incredibly data driven and even, um, auction driven. So most of the advertising that you see now is actually. Traded in an auction, um, and you use, take it on, you actually bid for that particular, uh, view or that particular kind of impression.
[00:15:49] Are Traasdahl: Um, so we were one of, um, like eight, 10 companies that was a part of creating what's called kind of programmatic, uh, advertising. Um, and, uh, that whole [00:16:00] industry really kind. Took over the legacy way of doing it. Um, 'cause now you could actually measure it. You could understand that I reached the right consumer and, and, and all of those type of things.
[00:16:10] Are Traasdahl: And that was them. And then what I, but I obviously had two, I had two kids and I was working 80 hour weeks. Mm-hmm. And I was just completely, totally burned out. Uh, they are none, uh, but we build it, uh, to a very successful, uh, company. Um. Know, two, 300 large customers on and, uh, two, 300 employees. And, uh, but it was time to, for me to take a break.
[00:16:36] Are Traasdahl: So that's when I, we sold it and then, uh, took this, uh, 18 month trip around the world. Mm-hmm. Which was pretty, pretty exciting.
[00:16:44] Nick Beter: So. Building that company in a legacy industry. My understanding is, is based kind of off of how you described it, this TV right here, there was an ad spot on it. Someone was paying for that ad spot and they were bidding on it or or whatnot.[00:17:00]
[00:17:01] Nick Beter: What happened was, now we have all these devices. We have a phone, I've got a laptop, and if I was looking at an ad of a shoe on that screen, on this screen on my laptop. My understanding is those were three. They at the time, 2010, 2000, they were capturing that as three different users. Your company was able to define that as, Hey, no, that's, that's the same person.
[00:17:25] Nick Beter: Is that kind of a good summary of what Tappa did?
[00:17:28] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, we were able to kind of create, um, a, a, a more kind of unified view on, uh, on, on, uh, the, the, the, the consumers. And we could also. Kinda measure that actually worked. Um, which is other big problem of, uh, advertising. It's the, I know that 50% of my adver advertising works, I just don't know what 50%.
[00:17:53] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so that's kind of what other part of it. Just like really understand that this actually converted. Somebody actually went to store to buy something or somebody [00:18:00] bought something online or, um, so that was the reason that that company, uh, we really kind of figured out. It's all that same, that value equation as if somebody's paying us $1, uh, $1, I, uh, then, uh, I need to drive $10 of value.
[00:18:14] Are Traasdahl: Um, and uh, we were able to kinda do that in through that, uh, that company as well. Um, and that's kind of. What I've seen in building companies, you need to be 10 x better than what you're trying to replace. So if you are, uh, just launching something and that twice as good as the alternative, uh, people are not switching, um, there's too much switching costs, uh, involved, um, uh, especially for B2B related things you need to be.
[00:18:44] Are Traasdahl: 10 x better, uh, than the, uh, than, than what's, what's, what's, what's around, uh, already. And to get to 10 x you need to do something that's dramatically different. So AI is that dramatically different, uh, now, but uh, going back in time, there's [00:19:00] always been this kind of big technology shifts. Mm-hmm. Um. That have allowed for Nutanix, uh, type of, uh, uh, improvement or, uh, experience, and that's where you get people to our companies to actually switch over, uh, not incremental improvements.
[00:19:14] Nick Beter: Yeah. And it, it feels like just timeline wise, 2004 you were on the precipice. The iPhone was Yeah, 2007.
[00:19:21] Are Traasdahl: Seven.
[00:19:22] Nick Beter: Yep. So you're on the precipice of that. And then advertising 2010, 11, like. You're on the precipice of everybody's advertisements now being in multiple locations, not just sitting in front of their TV at night watching CNN or Fox News.
[00:19:39] Nick Beter: Right, right. Like so, and now you're building crisp. So talk, talk a little bit about. Where that idea came from? I heard it came from your trip. Um, just talk about the idea and the inception of it.
[00:19:52] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. Uh, the, uh, so after, um, selling, uh, Tampa that took the family on this long trip, uh, around the world, so we, [00:20:00] we, uh, my, uh, I had a, uh, my daughter was four, my son was eight.
[00:20:05] Are Traasdahl: Uh, and, uh, so the four of us with my wife, we took this incredible trip around the world. Um, and, um. Through that we can really started seeing some big challenges. So, um, one was food waste. So that was, uh, stayed in New Zealand, uh, for one, uh, week. And I, we saw all these apples kind of rotting in the field and they didn't get picked.
[00:20:27] Are Traasdahl: And I was, why, why, why you guys not. Picking these apples. Uh, well, we don't know if we're gonna sell them or not. We don't have enough data or insights if we're gonna sell them or not. And it costs us money to have people come in and pick them, so they just fall on the ground. Uh, so 60% of the apples were, were not picked, uh, the week after we were in India.
[00:20:46] Are Traasdahl: And now we saw kids the same age as my kids, uh, on the street with who, who desperately needed that food. Um, so that's when we kind of started studying up on this, like got one third of all the food made in the [00:21:00] world. One third is lost in the supply chain. So before it gets to the consumer. So then the consumer throws out another one third, um, after, so the majority of foods produced is not, uh, consumed, uh, at all.
[00:21:14] Are Traasdahl: Um, so, and then at the same time you have a billion people that live with some kind of, uh, food insecurity. Um, and. Obviously now because the consumer prices are, uh, are, are, are very high, uh, right? So the, this incredible amount of waste, um, and it, and that was the inspiration to, to, to come out of my early retirement, uh, and uh, and then start a company that.
[00:21:41] Are Traasdahl: To address, uh, address, address that now we've expanded into many other use cases with, for the technology. But that was the, was the inspiration. Um, it felt good as well because I'm coming actually not coming from a family of business people. I'm coming from a family of, of teachers and, uh, I, [00:22:00] uh, ilist, uh, much more.
[00:22:02] Are Traasdahl: My dad, I remember him from growing up. He was sitting up and kind of typing. Letters on his typewriter and sending them to dictators around the world that they have to release prisoners and like, so that was, I was grew up in kind of a, a family that was very, uh, socially, uh, engaged. Um, and now I'm come, come, come a little bit full circle here, but I think I can use my kinda business, um, business, uh, insights.
[00:22:27] Are Traasdahl: To then also help with our, uh, with, with a, with a, with a real big, um, world problem. Um, so that's, uh, but at the same time you have to do it, um, as a triple bottom line. That's not kind of how we think about it. Like it has to be good for the world. It has to be good for our customers, and it has to be good for us, uh, as well.
[00:22:46] Are Traasdahl: Like we have to actually create a profitable. Um, uh, enterprise side of this so that it's, we can continue to invest in technology that helps solve our customer's problems. That also helps solve, uh, uh, our world problem. So, uh, [00:23:00] that was the background. Really good
[00:23:00] Nick Beter: triple bottom line. So were you, were you born like that?
[00:23:04] Nick Beter: You're on this 18 month trip and you're just, you, you see this problem, it's a big problem. Do you think you were born seeing those problems? Do you think it was something in your childhood as you've. You're just on the early side of. It seems like these big technological shifts, like how do you think, how do you think that came about inside?
[00:23:24] Nick Beter: It's
[00:23:24] Are Traasdahl: very, yeah, I've thought about that a lot. Kind of where does exactly come from? But, um, I, uh, I, I don't know. I think you, nobody's really good at this, what I do, right? This very isn't, uh, you just have to. Um, be in it for a long time and you, and, and if you kind of do things over and over and over and over again, uh, you get a little bit of kind of pattern recognition in a way, plus you get to, um, I think what one of the things that I, uh, I get better and better over time.
[00:23:53] Are Traasdahl: I can see the future in, I can kind of. I, I can't recently, I don't know what a lot of, uh, or the numbers are gonna [00:24:00] be, right? I can, I don't see that type of future, but I can see this coordinate on this coordinate and this coordinate those, those three things. That means that this is gonna happen. Um, so if I can kind work on that and clear, uh, create for, for, for myself and the team and for others, like a clear view of where the world is gonna be.
[00:24:19] Are Traasdahl: Um, then we can then invest today to be there, uh, tomorrow type of thing. But I think I, I usually try to address it on that trip. I just address addressed it from a consumer perspective. I was just thinking about it from every business is a consumer business at the end. Mm-hmm. There's no, there's no other.
[00:24:34] Are Traasdahl: There are no, no other businesses in the world than consumer businesses because either you're selling to consumers or you're selling to somebody who is selling to consumer. Um, so kind of understanding consumer, consumer behavior, uh, was very important on that trip. I came back with a hundred business ideas actually, um, after that trip, but I was just kind of sitting in a restaurant or sitting and watching people and that's, I was like, wow, there's a lot of.
[00:24:57] Are Traasdahl: How, what happens to this food that I'm, [00:25:00] uh, happen? What, what are all the steps that have to happen in order for this food to be in this restaurant or to be on the shelf of a, of, of, of, of a supermarket? And when I just started understanding the complexity of that industry, how important it was, it's, uh, the, one of the most important industries in the world.
[00:25:17] Are Traasdahl: Um, and then start looking at the, and what are the problems while the problem manifests itself as a third of the, of the food is being lost, that means that there must be some. Problems that can be, uh, can be solved in here. And then I also try to apply a fil A filter around scale. If I solve this problem, is it actually a, a, a, a big, uh, big problem to solve?
[00:25:39] Are Traasdahl: And the here is only 10, $15 trillion market. So it's, it's, it's clearly. Uh, a problem that should be solved, but then, and then also like things that are not, not sexy in a way because nobody was, think technologists jump into like food and supply chain. Everybody was doing, I know, uh, meta glasses [00:26:00] and like all of the cool, all of the cool stuff.
[00:26:02] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. Um, but now with ai, so now these are these kind of really deep data driven businesses, uh, have, um, now are very. Very popular. Uh, to, to, but now I think that's too late for our others to kind of jump in our particular vertical at least because we started six years ago, seven years ago.
[00:26:21] Nick Beter: But I imagine someone was working on it.
[00:26:23] Nick Beter: Walmart knew Walmart has produce. I mean, they Oh, yeah. For they knew. Sure. Knew that stuff was going to waste. General Mills, PepsiCo, these companies had to know that food's going to waste. Yes. They were doing it internally, maybe just not doing it well enough. Is that what you
saw?
[00:26:38] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. No, I think that's correct.
[00:26:39] Are Traasdahl: Walmart is an incredible, uh, data and technology company, um, and, uh, so are many of them. Mm-hmm. Uh, the, the distributors and the manufacturers that are selling to them, the, uh, my realization wasn't that there wasn't. Just a problem within those companies. They generally could have good [00:27:00] IT system. There was a problem with the fabric that connected all of these, uh, companies, uh, together.
[00:27:06] Are Traasdahl: And it is much more of a supply web than it is a supply chain. Um, and everything is, is, is connected. So if, uh, you have. Container ships sitting outside of the la uh, harbor and things are not getting delivered. Or if you have now tariffs that are shooting up and exchanging a lot, right? Um, all of these kind of disruptions that hit this, this very complex, uh, web of companies that are trading with each other, um, all of that, um, leads to these ripples that go through the whole, uh, whole industry where each of them might have.
[00:27:42] Are Traasdahl: Five to 10 per five to 10% waste. But if you aggregate that up mm-hmm. Over eight different steps in this supply, uh, supply chain then, uh, ends up being a big loss. Um, so we have kind of the connective tissue and the fabric, uh, in between the companies that was [00:28:00] missing. Um, and that's what we built, um, uh, which was.
[00:28:04] Are Traasdahl: Different than what other focused on, other focused on kind of help and solve for one particular company. Uh, but we were more focused on the data platform that could be good for everybody and then we ended up also then solving it for the companies. But, um, so,
[00:28:20] Nick Beter: okay, so that's the theory. Let's talk about what that is, what that means.
[00:28:23] Nick Beter: I. You have seven, 7,000 plus CPG brands using Chris.
[00:28:28] Are Traasdahl: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Nick Beter: 90 of the top. 100.
[00:28:31] Are Traasdahl: Yep.
[00:28:32] Nick Beter: What is this? A plat, this is an online platform. They can log on and see what, what do they see?
[00:28:38] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, they, uh, so on the CPG side, they typically use it to manage, uh, a lot of the retail businesses. So then, uh, it, uh, can start with.
[00:28:47] Are Traasdahl: With, uh, kinda what goes on shelf, what is the assortment? What is the price, um, uh, going to be, uh, how do I interact with my retailer? How do I get more products on shelf? Uh, how do I [00:29:00] manage the category that I'm managing, which is the, uh, uh, the case for many of the suppliers, uh, the manufacturers here in nor Arkansas, they manage entire categories.
[00:29:10] Are Traasdahl: Um, uh, how do I get e-commerce, like, so e-commerce. Uh, everybody wants e-commerce to grow. Um, and, uh, for Walmart, they have a stated goal of getting over 20, 25% of, uh, of, of transaction happening, uh, online. So, um, so how can the whole, uh, supplier ecosystem help, uh, with getting more e-commerce, uh, to work? Uh.
[00:29:34] Are Traasdahl: Pricing and promotions, uh, advertising and marketing. Um, so that's, uh, some of the use cases. Uh, a lot of supply chain related, uh, related things as well. You wanna make sure that you have the best consumer experience and best consumer experience needs, the, the, the right types of product, but the products also needs to be on shelf.
[00:29:54] Are Traasdahl: Mm-hmm. Um, and it's very hard and incredibly complicated, um, to get that [00:30:00] right. Um. It's a bad consumer experience if somebody goes into the store and can't find a product, obviously. And it's a bad consumer experience if you bought a product online and now uh, the product is not on shelf and somebody's gonna go look for it type of thing.
[00:30:12] Are Traasdahl: So, um, same, same thing. There can, trying to start with the consumer perspective. Mm-hmm. How can this be better for a consumer? Um, and what are all the steps to a whole very complicated supply chain, uh, and all of the people that are involved. So like a Nestle or is 200,000 people work at Nestle? Um, so there's a lot of people that need to, uh, kind of be orchestrated in order for products, uh, to activate delivered on, on, on shelf.
[00:30:38] Are Traasdahl: Um, and same thing with the majority of these, these companies. So, so that's, um, yeah, that's some of the things that we do at, uh, at crisp.
[00:30:46] Nick Beter: So it seems holistic now. Wasn't holistic maybe to start. Very supply chain focused to start now. So what's the difference between. Crisp and E two open, maybe some of your competitors, like what, is there a core offering [00:31:00] that's different or is it more of a holistic offering that's different?
[00:31:03] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, it's more holistic. I think the ability to kind of, um, many of our competitors are more like point solutions. Mm-hmm. They solve one thing and then somebody else, they solve another problem. Um, um, so for us it's more to have this like one data platform that can do, uh, to have, uh, access to all the data, but then, and we holistically solve a consumer problem.
[00:31:23] Are Traasdahl: Um. Uh, which is, or, and the retailer, uh, problem or opportunity. Um, so that's, that's kind of the reason that we, and then we have invested a lot more in just building technology. Some of the companies that we are competing with are more legacy players, that this is kind of a small piece of their business, they focus somewhere else.
[00:31:43] Are Traasdahl: Um, and for us it's just, uh, we are a hundred percent focused on solving one, one problem for one industry. Um, particularly now with ai. As well if we not chat about that. But the, uh, but AI is just changing. I think the world has changed more in the last three months [00:32:00] than it ha has in the last 300 years.
[00:32:02] Are Traasdahl: Um, so, um, uh, AI has these incredible opportunities, uh, here. So, but in order for AI to work. Uh, if humans needs oxygen, AI need kind of really good data. Um, and, uh, it needs to be accurate, accurate, and it needs to be timely and it need to be speedy and all of that type of thing. So the, um, so now this benefit of this very deep, um, deep, very deep kind of platform, um, that allows for, uh, unified data and, uh, all of that kind of really helps with exploration of ai, uh, as well.
[00:32:37] Nick Beter: So talk about that in Chris. Use a real example, like you don't have to tell the customer's name, but like we, you know, this problem existed for this customer and it would've taken us three months to solve it. Now it took three days. Yeah. Could you have some sort of example where people are listening, they're like.
[00:32:57] Nick Beter: I know AI and I've, I've heard of [00:33:00] these different platforms. Maybe I haven't used it. Like, and then they hear you say The world's changed more in the last three months than it has in the last however many years. Like give a real example of how people can actually. Feel that,
[00:33:14] Are Traasdahl: yeah. Yeah. These are all B2B kind of examples, but, um, I think, um, uh, auto stocks is a, is a big problem.
[00:33:23] Are Traasdahl: Mm-hmm. So, um, in order to manage, uh, auto stocks, there's a tremendous amount of data that you need to, uh, understand. Uh, now we work of. Hourly data to understand sales data hourly. Um, so we can predict and understand, um, exactly how much, uh, data should or how much product should go, uh, go on shelf. Um, and we can also direct, uh, the, uh, the, the fixing of a problem much more, uh, in real time.
[00:33:53] Are Traasdahl: Uh, before ai, you were able to do it on like maybe the biggest stores and the biggest, uh, kind of category of product type [00:34:00] of thing. Uh, but now you can actually. They use AI to do it on the smallest store for the smallest product that, um, so, so it allows for, for things that humans did in the past, but it allows to do it on just so much more scale because you can have all of these digital workers that can wake up in the morning and now they have done a tremendous amount of work, uh, for you, and they've been able to, um, take all those actions that lead to the outcomes that you want.
[00:34:27] Are Traasdahl: Um. So outta stocks, I think is one, uh, one example, uh, of, of that that's, uh, consumers can, can relate to. Um, you have, um, kind of pricing and promotional things. Mm-hmm. There is so many, so many problems,
[00:34:44] Nick Beter: um, that, that, that AI can, can help, uh, help solve. Hmm, that's good. Um, you've had quite a bit of acquisition shelf engine can tactics some others.
[00:34:56] Nick Beter: Um. As you have seen these [00:35:00] companies be built. Why have you acquired, why have you chosen to acquire them and how does that help with the holistic picture of what you're trying to build at Crisp?
[00:35:08] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, it's, so can tactics. They are very active here in mm-hmm in, in northwest Arkansas as well, and have some of the largest, uh, consumer goods companies here.
[00:35:18] Are Traasdahl: Um, and on, on, uh, as customers. So. Um, so for us it's like getting access to, uh, expertise and knowledge. Um, we think about what we build at CRISP as like getting as much data knowledge and expertise into the company because then we can pro create products and now we can be holistic, but, uh, contact tactics.
[00:35:38] Are Traasdahl: So one of the big pieces. Mm-hmm. Um, think about it as almost like, um. A path to purchase. What are all the things that need to happen for a customer to buy a product, uh, in store? So the product has a path to purchase, right? I have to source it from somewhere. I have to build it. I have to figure out what the price for this product is.
[00:35:56] Are Traasdahl: I have to figure out kind of what assortment I have to get it to the store and I that, [00:36:00] that has the path to purchase from a product perspective. And then you have a consumers path to purchase as well. They need to be influenced, need to think about, I'm gonna buy this product versus that product. Um. Am I gonna buy a more expensive product, uh, or gonna buy a cheaper product?
[00:36:15] Are Traasdahl: Like there's a whole consumer path to purchase as well. So crisp, uh, is basically now through acquisitions and through organic, uh, growth and product development, trying to piece together as much of that holistic, as you mentioned earlier, like this whole holistic picture here. And, uh, some of these acquisitions I've helped.
[00:36:32] Are Traasdahl: Does, uh, with, uh, with, with that. So, uh, they did planograms, which is, uh, is, is is, uh, industry term, but, um, that's where you draw out kind of what all of this, all of the stores, uh, product and all of the shelves look like. And it's an incredibly labor intensive, uh, process because the retailers want and should change it often.
[00:36:54] Are Traasdahl: To make sure the consumers have the best product on the shelf. Um, and now with, with [00:37:00] ai, we can also as another example of kind of how AI can actually accelerate and, and figure out this much faster than, uh, than, than than humans could do manually. So, um, so that's also typically what we do when we acquire companies.
[00:37:15] Are Traasdahl: We, um, we allow them to then sit on top of our. Uh, data infrastructure. And then we have, uh, these kind of AI specific engineers that are really good at what they do, um, that can take these products into the, from a legacy into, uh, a future, uh, AI state.
[00:37:33] Nick Beter: Yeah.
[00:37:34] Are Traasdahl: Has Chris grown
[00:37:36] Nick Beter: like you thought it
[00:37:36] Are Traasdahl: would, I
[00:37:37] Nick Beter: mean, you,
I
[00:37:37] Nick Beter: think you said you invested tens of millions of dollars into the technology before you
[00:37:41] Are Traasdahl: Yeah.
[00:37:41] Nick Beter: Before you monetized it. Has it grown like you thought it would, has it. Have you chipped away at solving the problem that you set out to solve?
[00:37:49] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, we, uh, came into the pandemic with that amount of money invested and no customers. Uh, and then the pandemic was actually a little bit of a catalyst for this because that's when, [00:38:00] uh, people are like, huh, there are no products on shelf, or, I have all of these challenges.
[00:38:05] Are Traasdahl: Uh, so that's when the industry started sharing more data. And Walmart is actually the best company in the world to do this, kind of set the standard for the rest, uh, of the industry in a way. Um, because they, they and others kind of realize that the more data they, uh, the, the consumer goods companies have, the better they can react to these type of challenges.
[00:38:25] Are Traasdahl: So, um, so that's when the industry became, um, that's when. That's when of technology we had built became relevant, uh, for industries. I went from no customers to 150 customers through the pandemic. Like all it kind seem to kind of work. This, this is good. Um, but then we have rapidly went from 150 to 7,000 in the next couple of years.
[00:38:47] Are Traasdahl: Um. Which is a lot of network effects in this. Mm-hmm. As well. So once you kind of get there, it's very hard to get the snowball, uh, to start, uh, rolling. But once it kind of catches, uh, some momentum, then uh, that's [00:39:00] what, uh, that's what you get. So
[00:39:01] Nick Beter: how do you handle that much growth without things breaking?
[00:39:04] Are Traasdahl: Uh, I know things are breaking, breaking less now than, uh, a couple of years ago. But, uh, yeah, it's, it comes back to that technology investment. Like, uh, if we can solve it by, by investing in technology and product and people and, and smart people with the right tools, we will eventually figure it out. Um, but uh, yeah, that's always been a challenge in this business once they kind of.
[00:39:30] Are Traasdahl: Um, start really growing. You, you, you also break, uh, things break. Mm-hmm. Um, but that's also an opportunity to then rebuild and fix and be ready for the next, uh, scale because this continues to scale like that, right? Mm-hmm. So it's,
[00:39:44] Nick Beter: uh, so we, uh, get a be ahead of, ahead of, uh, scale. So you talked about how AI's changed things in the last three months.
[00:39:52] Nick Beter: Talk about. How you see it changing retail, how you see it changing crisp in the next three years?
[00:39:59] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, I'm [00:40:00] just, uh, publishing an article in Fast, fast Company now, and that's, it's about, um, the evolution of technology. So the, um, so the first kind of big shift in technology was these ERP systems, like SAP and Oracle and these large companies like that where you had to go in and you had to customize it to each company because each company is kind of different and it took three years and.
[00:40:23] Are Traasdahl: 2000 consultants, right? It took, um, but once it was in, then, uh, these systems worked, worked really well. As a counter to that, now you've got these SaaS companies, the software as a service type companies that were cloud-based much faster. Uh, but that was on the other end of the spectrum. Again, there was no customization at all.
[00:40:41] Are Traasdahl: Everything was just, uh, one, one system. So now got all these kind of small points solutions. Uh, so one enterprise might have 2000 of these type of SaaS. Products that solve bits and pieces. Um, so with ai now, what the point of that article is [00:41:00] that we think about from a, a personal enterprise software. So your, um, software.
[00:41:07] Are Traasdahl: It's gonna look very different than than mine. And everybody has the ability to create, uh, a completely customized ma mass customization, basically down to that particular, uh, person. Uh, let's say we both work in supply chain. My supply chain I care. Marketing and pricing, and that's what drives my supply chain.
[00:41:32] Are Traasdahl: You care about coffee prices and you imports and exports and things like that. This is very hard to create one product that can, can, can service both of us. So I think the next. Incredible explosion. Uh, in, in, in now is a big third wave, is what we call, uh, personal, uh, personal software. Um, and that allows you to kinda, we've seen there a little kind of coordinate again, kinda see in the beginning of [00:42:00] that, uh, with the experience that you can get in a, in, even in the Jet GPT, right?
[00:42:04] Are Traasdahl: You can solve the problem that you have or the insight that you wanna drive. Feels very personal, uh, personal, uh, uh, to you. Uh, but can imagine that now on enterprise scale and on enterprise scale, uh, it also needs to sit on top of very solid data foundation. Mm-hmm. So we are all working off the, on the same underlying data and some underlying column skills and, uh, and all of that so they can calculate and do things, um, with the actual experience, uh, per.
[00:42:34] Are Traasdahl: Is down to the, to the, to the, to the persons. I think that's gonna be the next big, big wave. Um,
[00:42:40] Nick Beter: so what does that do for retail? What does that do for. The way we shop, what does that do for Crisp?
[00:42:47] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. No, uh, I think for, for the, for, um, uh, for retail, it, uh, it, it will improve the collaboration, I think, between retailers and, uh, and suppliers.
[00:42:57] Are Traasdahl: Um, that is very often [00:43:00] email based, uh, today. Um, and a, a buyer at a big media or a big retailer. I get hundreds of emails a day, uh, with numbers in them.
[00:43:11] Nick Beter: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:12] Are Traasdahl: Even more shelf space. There's a product out, out of stock here. Mm-hmm. I wanna be on, we have a new, new, new product launch. We have a new flavor.
[00:43:19] Are Traasdahl: Here's the price point. We have to increase our prices. We have supply chain. All that stuff is numbers back and forth in emails. Um, so I do think we talk about it as collaborative agents. So, um, we're. Each, um, trading partner can take some of that, uh, toil of emails back and forth, uh, away. Um, and that can be replaced by agents that communicate that, uh, with each other and they have to have some, um.
[00:43:48] Are Traasdahl: Ground rules. So what they're trying to optimize for, they're optimizing for, um, better consumer prices, optimizing for better products on shelf, all of those type of things. Um, that frees up the humans to [00:44:00] think about things that are much more strategic and important, uh, here. So I think that's one big, uh, big, big, big outcome we are gonna see from, uh, from the AI innovation.
[00:44:10] Nick Beter: That's awesome. And then one, one last question before we kind of get to closing here. Where, where is Crisp Petted? You? You guys have scaled extremely fast since Sounds like Post pandemic coming outta that. What, what does the future look like for Crisp?
[00:44:24] Are Traasdahl: Yeah, we, um, continue to expand. Uh, well this is our main market.
[00:44:29] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. Uh, so we continue to expand here higher and, uh, hiring, uh, um, uh. Uh, a lot of people and kind of building out, um, more and more, uh, in Northwest Market. I said, this is the, this is the most advanced, this is the retail market, uh, in the world. So, um, but then we also expanding out now nationally, so we are opening up in, uh, in, in, in, in London and in.
[00:44:52] Are Traasdahl: Scandinavia, et cetera. Um, and we have a lot of customers that sell their products globally, so you can go kinda anywhere in the world and [00:45:00] find, uh, find products for our customers. So, um, so they are, uh, pulling us into all of these other, uh, markets now as well. So global expansion is, uh, is one, uh, one area.
[00:45:10] Are Traasdahl: Um, a lot of product, product innovation. Um. Less commercial and more tech and product. I like to be like in the weeds with our cofo founder who was just, uh, here. So we spent like last night on just like solving tech and product, uh, problems. So, um, yeah, and just keep scaling and building. It's, um, it's an very exciting time.
[00:45:31] Are Traasdahl: Also feels so fortunate to be alive at this time when you, when when AI really is change is changing the world. I think if we can start seeing just the beginning of this, uh, here now. Uh, and kind of, uh, being in the middle of all of that is, is really, really exciting.
[00:45:48] Nick Beter: And then lastly, what's your vision for Arcade?
[00:45:51] Are Traasdahl: Yeah. This, um, is first of it's an incredible space with incredible views. Yeah. Uh, um, and, uh, [00:46:00] and, uh, I want, um, uh, as many people as possible to experience what I, uh, experienced, uh, when I came to Northwest Arkansas for the first time. Um, with, uh, the innovation and, and the people here and all this incredible optimism we talked about in the beginning.
[00:46:18] Are Traasdahl: Mm-hmm. Um, but you don't know until you can't come here. Right. So you have to find a way for people to come and actually experience it. Because when I, if I try to explain to somebody in New York what. Ville Arkansas. It is. There's no chance. Um, we sold a, uh, a house in Colorado in Aspen, and I, uh, the, the, um, and we bought the house here and the, um, then the box moving boxes said.
[00:46:43] Are Traasdahl: Aspen to, uh, from Aspen to Bent Mill, and this guy came up, I said, you're gonna bounce back from this, uh, kid. You're gonna bounce back. It's gonna be okay. So, so, but then when, and then others were like, oh my God, I love Bent Mill. I love, uh, the Northwest Oregon. So, so the [00:47:00] ones that have been there and experienced it, they have a completely different view of what it is.
[00:47:05] Are Traasdahl: 90% have no id. Mm-hmm. Um, so the, uh, so that's part of arcade is to, um, get, uh, incredible technology companies, ai, retail related companies to come from all over the world and move to, um, and move their, their businesses here and be a part of the epicenter of, of, of retail. Um, so that's, that's, that's the goal.
[00:47:29] Nick Beter: So you get them to come to visit. Maybe it's for a couple weeks, maybe it's for a few months. Introduce them to people and then they're like, holy smokes, I love this.
[00:47:37] Are Traasdahl: Yeah.
[00:47:37] Nick Beter: We're gonna set up shop here. Is that the
[00:47:39] Are Traasdahl: right? Exactly. I'll be tapping into some of the customer and the relationships that CRISP has, uh, as well, because then they can meet.
[00:47:46] Are Traasdahl: Fortune, gamble and Mars and Mon all these companies in Bonday, uh, when, when they come. So we try to then help them with like the, the, the business development side of it as well. Uh, it is different than a normal on an [00:48:00] incubator. An incubator is typically. Earlier stage companies that kind of just getting off the ground.
[00:48:05] Are Traasdahl: These are companies that are further along. Mm-hmm. Few hundred, uh, employees, maybe have significant funding, uh, et cetera, because that's, you need to have some scale, uh, in order to operate, uh, in, in the markets. We want them to become more proven as they, as they come, uh, as they come here. But, um. Uh, innovation doesn't happen on the coasts.
[00:48:27] Are Traasdahl: Uh, in, in retail. Innovation in retail happens right here. Uh, so if the companies that wanna be a leader, they, they need to, they need to come here.
[00:48:36] Nick Beter: Well, we belabored. Why Northwest Arkansas? It's a big part of what we do. I think you, you hit on a lot of the high points there. How, how do you define success?
[00:48:44] Are Traasdahl: For Arcade or for, um, for North Arkansas? Personally, or, or personally? It
[00:48:48] Nick Beter: could be personally. It could be business. How do you, how do you define success?
[00:48:52] Are Traasdahl: Uh, uh, relationships is the most important for me. Like, um, the, uh, I, I, I feel like I, I have an opportunity [00:49:00] to build personal relationships. Either the notes are with.
[00:49:03] Are Traasdahl: With customers that we meet or with incredible people that work for, uh, for, for, for crisp or for with family or friends and all that. So I think the, the, uh, the study on happiness, uh, right, that was done by, uh, Harvard might have, uh, Reddit, but uh, they've looked at every factor over a hundred years, right?
[00:49:25] Are Traasdahl: And the come, came back, happiness came back to just one thing. Um, uh, and that was. The, the, the close connections that you have with other people. Um, and those close connections can come from, from, uh, from business relationships that lead into close connections can from family, from, uh, from friends and all of that.
[00:49:42] Are Traasdahl: But that's, that's the most important thing in life is, uh, is relationships.
[00:49:46] Nick Beter: It's amazing. One of the things we do at the end of every podcast, as we like to summarize what we learned from you today, and then what we think our, our listeners are gonna learn from you. Um. The, the first thing that was really clear in the [00:50:00] conversation, uh, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a founder, if you're building something, is you have to build the best product.
[00:50:06] Nick Beter: Yep. And I think we talked about that. You look at, you go down the list of founders that we've interviewed right here in Northwest Arkansas. All of them have built remarkable products, remarkable services, and it all, it's all tied back to the consumer, which we'll talk about at the end. Um, building a remarkable product is what you have to do to be successful.
[00:50:29] Nick Beter: And, you know, we, we went through thumb play, we went through tap pad, we talked about Chris. We're sitting here in arcade. All of these are remarkable products. And so we talked about, you know, you have to be successful to, to, if you're gonna invest that much into it, but the investment and the belief in what you're doing.
[00:50:47] Nick Beter: You're doing it because you're, you're building a really good product. So I love that. I think we can learn from that. I think the second thing was solving the biggest problems. It was really interesting hearing you talk about that and returning the value [00:51:00] to the consumer 10 x of what you're asking for them.
[00:51:02] Nick Beter: And if you're building something here, if you're building something somewhere else, um, I think someone who's listening to you say that is gonna learn a lot. And just hearing you talk about like. The, the problems that you could have solved and you chose. Okay. Food waste is a huge one. Trillions.
[00:51:20] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:20] Nick Beter: Trillions of dollars. Um, and it'll be really cool to, to watch you make progress at that over the coming years. Um, and then I think the, the last one, I think the word people like to use nowadays is visionary. Um. But I think the way I heard you describe it is you're just focused on the consumer. And we're sitting right here in Bentonville, Arkansas, and Sam Walton was the king of that.
[00:51:48] Nick Beter: He was focused on the consumer.
[00:51:49] Are Traasdahl: Yep.
[00:51:50] Nick Beter: And I look at the businesses that you've built and that's what you were doing. How do we make the outcome? How do we make the. Buying process. How do we make [00:52:00] the, whatever the consumer's experiencing better than it was 10 x better than it was? Yep. Yep. Hundred percent. Um, and so if you're building something, those are some principles that you can learn from, you can integrate into your business.
[00:52:11] Nick Beter: And so thank you for sharing those, Ari and. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:52:16] Are Traasdahl: Great.
[00:52:17] Nick Beter: Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.
[00:52:18] Cameron Clark: Thank you for listening to this episode of NWA Founders, where we sit down with founders, owners and builders driving growth here in northwest Arkansas. For recommendations are to connect with us, reach out at nwa founders@gmail.com.
[00:52:32] Cameron Clark: Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, then please consider leaving a rating, a review, and sending it to someone who you think would benefit from it. We'll see you in the next episode.