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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown, where we take questions about faith, the bible, and culture, and give you honest practical advice you can trust. This is a space to ask anything and get real answers for real life. We're glad you're here. Now let's get into today's episode.
Tammy Brown:Well, welcome back to the debrief podcast with Matthew Steven Brown. And before we jump into this first question, I do want to give a little disclaimer. If you're listening in the car and you have little ones with you or in the house, this first question is pretty heavy, so you might wanna pause it and come back to it to another time. But we're gonna jump into this first question, Matt, which is pretty heavy and just broke my heart when I read this. But it's from Linda in Grand Terrace, California, and it says, got baptized in February on Super Bowl Sunday for the sole purpose that I was planning to unalive myself the next day.
Tammy Brown:I ended up in a mental hospital because of it, and I now wonder if I should get baptized again because I had wrong intentions before, should I? Such a good question, and we've heard that before, but it is such a serious nature. Yeah. So again, that thing, but what would you say to that?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, would just say, Linda, I love you. I'm so sorry that you are battling with mental illness, and just, I want you to know that your life has purpose, you have purpose, you know. Whether we feel like we have worth or not, we have worth. We reflect the image of God, Genesis one twenty six, that God created them male and female in his own image and likeness. And so, Linda, I just would want you to know that you reflect the character and image of God, and because of that, even though you are marred by sin, there is something of worth in you and of value, and we all need to remind ourselves of that, that there's beauty and success in us even when we can't see it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And there are moments, Linda, where we feel like our lives are worthless, but Jesus thought we were worth him. And so I just would remind you of that. So now jumping into this, right, you know, I got baptized because I was going to end my life. We don't get baptized to go to heaven, so baptism will not get you to heaven. We know this specifically because Jesus was crucified between two thieves, the one on his right and his left, and one of the thieves believed in Jesus, and he said, Today you will be with me in paradise, and there's no record of him being baptized.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So what saves us is faith in Christ, and so baptism is a physical manifestation of what has occurred inside of me. So like when you and I got married, the wedding ceremony didn't make me love you. We went through a wedding ceremony because I loved you, And so that's what's really important. If I didn't love you, we just went through the motions, and we would have a legal document, but we would not have been married in the sense of what it means, two people coming together to love one another for life and a deep commitment. So baptism is simply a ceremony, and that's not to say that God is not present in that, that we don't experience a powerful union in that moment.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So like when you and I got married, we watched our twenty five year anniversary twenty five years ago, it's almost thirty years. Wow. And watching that, and it was a really moving thing for me to watch that, and I loved it, and you were so cute, and we were so young, but it was a beautiful thing. Baptism is a beautiful, powerful thing because it is an expression of, and this is what's important, our believing loyalty to God. And so I use those two words together because, just like marriage, I believed that I loved you, and I was making a covenant of loyalty to you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So faith in Christ is really two components. It's believing, right? It's faith, but it's believing loyalty. So it's devotion to Him. That affects what I do with my body sexually, how I express that, right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So in the same way when you and I got married, right, I was devoted to you sexually. So all others were off limits sexually when you and I got married. In the same sense, when we give our lives to Christ, right? So there's a union with him, and there's a loyalty to him, and he said that sex is to be enjoyed between husband and wife for the purpose of comfort, connection, and oneness in marriage, right? And procreation, right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It produces children. So baptism is just something that I do outwardly because of something that's already changed inside me inwardly. Now, I don't want to just say it's a symbol. It's not just this thing. It's a mystery.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Somehow God is present in that. Jesus was baptized, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove. So I don't want to say that it's not mysterious. Don't want to say that not spiritual. It's not just a ritual.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God is in that somehow. However, we only do that when we are ready to do that. So what I would say, Linda, if we were sitting down next to each other, I would just say, first of all, how are you doing? I hope you're doing better with your mental health, and you're taking that seriously, and I would want to hear from you, what are the steps that you're taking so that you don't get back in that same place? Are you exercising?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Are you reading your Bible? Are you in healthy relationships? Are you eating good food? Are you sleeping at night? Like, right, we have to do our part to experience healing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I wish that it was all just a miracle and a prayer. Sometimes God does that, but oftentimes there's a journey that we have to take to claim our healing. And specifically, with mental health issues, we don't get there overnight, and we don't get out of it overnight. So we have to learn how to create different habits. So I would ask you, Linda, do you believe that you're a sinner?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do you believe that you need to be saved? And if you said yes to both of those things, I would say, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that he died on the cross for your sins, and that he rose again from the dead on the third day? Do you believe those things? And then I would say, are you ready to make him the Lord of your life? Are you ready to follow him?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it's believing, right? This is who Jesus is, this is what Jesus did. And then the following is the loyalty part. It's believing loyalty. Now, it doesn't mean we get it perfect, but it means that I'm going to make a change in my life.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And if you didn't believe that on Super Bowl Sunday, I would say you don't have to get baptized, right? We don't get dunked over and over again because we didn't understand everything fully. But if you're feeling prompted, like some couples renew their vows, Hey, I really feel like we need to say this again because maybe I understand from a different place or a different perspective. Some couples get remarried, right? It's like, hey, something happened here.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We need to redo this ceremony to say that we're recommitting our lives to this. So I think it would be appropriate if you wanted to be baptized so you could harm yourself, so you'd go to heaven, because that's not the right reason to get baptized. The right reason to get baptized is not because you know you're going to die. The right reason to get baptized is because you know Jesus died. Baptism is about his death, not ours.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Baptism is about his resurrection, not ours. So I would explain to you, Linda, and if you're watching on YouTube, so I like to use the symbol of the cross, so if you're listening in the car, I'm making my arms like the cross, just like you would wear around your neck, that baptism is a symbol of our death and burial, right? And so when I baptize people, I say we are buried with Christ unto death, so think about you're laying down like in your own coffin. We are buried with Christ unto death, and we are raised to live a new and awesome life. So baptism symbolizes two things: our death and our future resurrection.
Tammy Brown:So
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:it's that we've died with Christ, and we will be raised with Christ on the last day. And so really, for the Christian, it's the most important moment in your life. It's you inviting your friends, your family, the people that you know and love to say, just like when we got married, we invited our friends and our family. We wanted people to celebrate with us this commitment that we were making. So if you don't feel like, Linda, that your baptism was about Jesus, then I would say, yeah, let's do it again.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But let's not fall into the trap where we believe we have to get everything right in order to be saved. We are not saved
Tammy Brown:because- Every time I go wrong, I have to re
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We're not rap saved because we always get it right. We're saved because Jesus got it right. And we have to trust that, and live for that, and rest in that. So I think, Linda, it's up to you. I don't think that you have to do it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I would encourage you, and this is a moment, Linda, where we don't need a podcast, we need a pastor to sit down with us, to pray with us, and to really discern what is the Holy Spirit saying. If I was in a small group, I would just share this. You could play what I said, but I don't know you, you're not sitting in front of me, and I don't have the privilege of walking through this with you. So that's where local church, people that are leaders that you trust, somebody that could give you wisdom would really help. So that's my 2¢, Linda, but just know, love you, praying for you, and I celebrate that you're alive.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Life is a gift.
Tammy Brown:Yeah. That's what I was gonna say is thank you so much for being real. This is exactly the kind of question that we want is Yeah. This ticker bravery to say, like, here's where I was and ask the real question that you're struggling with. And, if you are part of Sandals Church, we encourage you to reach out to whatever campus you attend and that pastor and walk through this.
Tammy Brown:But I think we are just so grateful that the story didn't end the way that it could have and that you were here to write this question. So thank you so much for sending that in. Alright. This next one comes from Danielle, and I'd like to immediately award Danielle one of the longest multiple question questions for the debrief podcast. We are super grateful because it gave such good things to talk about, but we're gonna do a few from Danielle.
Tammy Brown:This first one says, what determines if someone is a child of God? He is the creator of all things, but not everyone is a child of him. I get that he gives he gave us free will, but if someone is not a child of God, I'm doing air quotes there, does that mean there's no hope for them, or does that just mean they aren't a child of God yet? Is baptism required to be considered one of his? Does the goodness of our heart determine it, or is it something else?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Daniel, great, great question and you're probably gonna have to listen to my answer several times. So let's back up. What determines if someone is a child of God? So in a sense, right, we are all God's creation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Back to, oh my gosh, back to Linda's question, right, we all reflect the image of God. In the beginning, God created them male and female, right, in his image and his likeness. So in one way, Danielle, we are all children of God. But in Genesis chapter one, and then in two, and God creates Adam, and then specifically Eve, and then Genesis chapter three, they fall, things get progressively worse, and then in chapter 10, we have the Tower Of Babel, where there's a scattering of people across the earth, and so basically what happens there is the people of earth want a name for themselves, so they reject God. They've already been given a name, and they reject God, and they go their own way, and the Tower Of Babel is God handing them over to, we would say in our faith, other demons.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The text actually says lower Elohim, so lesser gods. So that's why Hindus believe in their Hindu gods, Muslims believe in their god, right? All the religions of the earth have their own gods, and in Deuteronomy chapter 32, it says that they have territories according to their own gods, right? And that messes with our heads, but basically God says, You want to worship lesser gods? Fine, you worship them, and then here's what the Bible says in the book of Acts.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Paul says that God allowed people to worship gods, false gods for a time, but now he calls all people back to himself through Jesus, right? So when we go to Acts chapter one, the Holy Spirit falls upon the disciples, and it is in the symbol of tongues, and many of my charismatic friends miss this. It is the symbol of one voice again. So God has scattered all of the nations. God has scattered all of the peoples to their own language, to their own tongues.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We are endlessly confused, and we worship false gods. And now in Acts chapter two, the Holy Spirit says, boom, there is one God, one language, one people, one movement, and it reclaiming is of heaven and earth to the one God that is Yahweh. So I know that's crazy. So
Tammy Brown:Right now, I'm like
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I know. So
Tammy Brown:I don't need
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:to So to everyone is a child of God in one sense, but here's the thing. The only way you can become a true child of God is through Jesus. So John one twelve says this, To whoever believed in him, he gave them the right to become a child of God. That's John one twelve. So what happened in Genesis 10?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There was disloyalty and unbelief, and the nation said, We will live for ourselves, and basically self worship. We will build a tower that makes a name for us, and this is deeply offensive to Jewish people because Shem is the Hebrew word for name. Do you know what Hebrews, so Hebrews, Jewish people will not say the name Yahweh. Some will say Adonai. That's really fallen out of favor.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do you know what most Jews say when they say God's name? They say HaShem. Is just the word the
Tammy Brown:HaShem.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The name. So they worship the name. So a Jewish person who speaks Hebrew would understand that the Tower Of Babel is a rejection of God. They didn't want to worship the name, they wanted a name for themselves. And so because of that, God judged them and scattered them to the false gods above the earth.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And we have to remember, Jesus is reconciling things in heaven on earth. There was something that happened in heaven, a war of the lesser gods. The Greek translation translates that as angels. We don't know exactly what they were, but you can say demons, you can say whatever, but they were over this land and territories specifically, and what God said is, I'm going to start a new people, and a lot of Christians don't know this. Abraham is a new Adam.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's gonna start a new I've
Tammy Brown:heard this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:This is He's gonna start a new new people for himself, and he's going to reclaim the earth for himself through Abraham. And so then, right, we find that Abraham is a son of God. Then we find out that Israel is also a son of God, and then David, King David, is a son of God. And then ultimately, what do we find in the Gospels, that Jesus is the unique son of God? So the whole movement of history is God reclaiming us from demonic, satanic, false God worship, and this is where it's confusing, because they are divine beings.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So that's why in the Hebrew, it's confusing. It says Elohim, the same word for God, it's used for them, but they're not the one God, Yahweh, and there is no one like him. They are powerful. They are evil. They are fallen, and they are competing with God for our attention.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it is the reclamation of all things. And so then in John chapter one, Jesus, right, is the unique son of God, and here's the thing, through God's one and only son, guess how we become sons and daughters? Through him. So it's by faith and trust in him.
Tammy Brown:That's what I was gonna say. The question to me seems like it's more of a salvation question, Meaning, it like, aren't we all children of God because he created us? Right? Yes. He is our creator.
Tammy Brown:It seems like it's saying, are they saved? So if they're not a child of God, air quotes, does that mean there's no hope for them or not yet? I would say it probably is not yet. Like, there's hope for everybody until there isn't. Right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Tammy Brown:And so that's what it that's what it seems like. It's like it's it's really asking is is someone, if they don't believe in God, are they not his child? I would say that's not the question. Of course they're his child, it just means they may not be spending eternity in heaven?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. It's it's they're not reconciled
Tammy Brown:Yeah. To Right. That's what I feel like the question's asking.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it's like it's like it's like a son and a daughter that are not reconciled. Let's say you've stolen, you've murdered, you've done all these terrible things. You're still technically a son or a daughter, but you're not reconciled. And so that's the difference, is reconciled children are the ones that have been made right through Jesus. So what I'm trying to say here is all of us are falling away, and there was only one way for us to be reconciled.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It started with Abraham, David, the people of Israel, and ultimately, through Jesus, God is leading the world on how he's going to reclaim, not just Israel. So Abraham starts with Israel. David's the king of Israel. This is what people don't realize, is when Jesus Christ rises, it's not just I'm retaking Eden. God is retaking the whole earth.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's all His. Mhmm. And so that's why Acts chapter two. So I know, I kind of
Tammy Brown:Like, went you gave us a lot, which was really good, but I think the heart of the question is, is it yet? And then this next part, is baptism required to be considered one of His? I think we kinda hit on that in this previous question, but you gave the the example of the thief on the cross who wasn't baptized, but Jesus did say, I'll see you today in the kingdom. And so baptism isn't
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Tammy Brown:Required.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, I mean, there there there are some Christian denominations that say it is required. I would humbly disagree that, like I said, and I I think we covered in the last episode that baptism does not make me love God, it is a symbol of my love for God, and it's an outward covenant act that I engage in to demonstrate my faith in him, but the act itself is not saving. That's where I would disagree with Catholics and with many other denominations. It's not the act of baptism that saves me. It is my faith in Christ that saves me.
Tammy Brown:And so then that goes into the next part. Does the goodness of our heart determine it, or is it something else? The Bible says our heart
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No, yeah, would actually say, yeah, Danielle, the problem is our heart, that's the problem is. And so that's where I was trying to go all the way back to Genesis, that the problem, you know, starts with Adam and Eve. I mean, very, they're two kids, one kills another, right? It just gets worse and worse and worse, and it culminates in the story of Babel, and it is the complete unraveling of humanity. Humanity has gone its own way, and they're seeking their own name in refusal to worship the name, and so ultimately, God has to redeem us, and the way that he's chosen to do that is through Jesus.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So our hearts will not get us into heaven. Our hearts are not good enough in order to save us. The only thing that can save us is to be in relationship with God, and so here's what's so important. I don't have life within myself. I can't sustain life.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God is eternal life, and so if I'm apart from him, I will die eventually. Right? So a lot of Christians don't think about this, but even in the garden, with Adam and Eve, before they ever sinned, there was the tree of life that they ate from. They were biologically dependent upon God for life, even before the fall. So we are not eternal beings.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We need God in order to live that out. And so really, the question of heaven, hell, and the end is the only way that we can exist forever is in right relationship with God. The only way we can be in right
Tammy Brown:relationship this something else
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:in Yes. This Is Jesus. And so that's a great question, Danielle.
Tammy Brown:Yeah. That was that was a great answer and the I know. History lesson all in one, but we appreciate that. Danielle goes on to say, if we can't go to heaven without accepting Jesus as our lord and savior, does that mean not only wait. Does that mean not only do other religions not go to heaven, but even other Christian denominations like Catholic like Catholics?
Tammy Brown:What happens to good people that don't accept Jesus? Do they go to hell simply for the fact that they weren't saved, or do they just go nowhere because they don't live on?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Danielle, this is like, you're like a theologian here. So if we can't go to heaven without accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior, does that mean not only do other religions not go to heaven, but even other Christian denominations like Catholics? So let's leave the Catholics out for a second, we'll get there in just a second. So that's why my answer before, and I muddled these questions together, Danielle, so I apologize, other religions are worshiping false gods, lesser Elohim. That's what Deuteronomy 32 says.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's the consequence of the Tower Of Babel, which is probably what's happening in Genesis three. The snake is probably not a talking snake. It's probably a divine being. So in the ancient world, we read snake. The ancient world would have read divine being.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I think we've talked about this on this show before. So in Isaiah chapter six, when Isaiah sees the Lord, he sees the Seraphim high and lifted up. So Seraphim is a difficult word to translate. Literally, it means burning ones, but it can be translated snake. So, and in old languages, right, things are often translated for what they do.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So think of a poisonous snake bites you, what do you feel? Burning. So they probably called them burning ones. So when Isaiah sees those things, we read Seraphim, but the ancient culture would have seen a divine being, snake. So these seraphim are divine beings.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So the snake in the garden is a divine being, which is why he can talk. You know what saying? It's like, oh my gosh, snakes can talk. No, this snake could talk because it's divine in some way. And so Adam and Eve reject God and his commandments and his covenants, and they choose to listen to this divine being that says, and oh, by the way, what is the accusation?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God knows that if you do this, you will be like him, right? So it's equality with God. It's this, and no, no, we're a created being. We're lesser than God, so they do that, And then go to the Tower Of Babel. What do they want?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They want to be like God and build a name for themselves. It's the same thing. And so, right, so this question is rooted in, are human beings like God, and do we have access to heaven? And the answer is no, because we're not God. The only way that we can get to him is through him.
Tammy Brown:Well, and the question is if we if we can't go to heaven without accepting Jesus, are we saying other religions won't either? The question comes down to the person, not the religion. Like, take like, whatever religion, it comes down to, does the person know Jesus as their Lord and savior
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right.
Tammy Brown:Except him as son of God? Like
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Here's what I would say. As a Christian, salvation is guaranteed to those who've placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. At the end of the day, Jesus runs judgment day. He is sovereign. He can do as he chooses.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I don't have to worry about judgment day, because I know, because I've placed my faith and trust in Jesus Christ, that I have received eternal life. And why is that? Not because I deserve it, but because Jesus has promised it. What he does with other people is his business. He can choose to do whatever he wants to do.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What he has promised is that those who place their faith and trust in him are Here's what the Bible says, that there's no other way to be saved but by Jesus. So what he does, C. S. Lewis, who was a great philosophical thinker last century, tended to lean towards there's a second opportunity. I don't see that in scripture, but again, we don't know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But let's jump into this. Does that mean that only other religions go to heaven and
Tammy Brown:Like other religions won't go to heaven, including other Christian religions like Catholics.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And so here's the thing is, you know, I hate saying that. So Catholics who are born again and believe in Jesus will go to heaven. I know born again Catholics. I just do.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do I have problems with the Catholic church? Yeah, I mean, but there are problems with sandals. There's problems with every organized religion. There's problems with whenever you get people and power and money together, you have problems. Catholics have just been doing it longer, so there's more problems.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I have theological differences with them. However, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. So any Catholic person, not praying to Mary, Mary cannot save you, but if a Catholic person repents of their sin, places their faith in Jesus Christ, they will be saved, and they can remain Catholic, and some do. Most do not, because the Catholic church has become consumed with religious practice rather than relating to Jesus. That's my criticism.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But you got to know this, that Sandals Church is a Protestant church. Do you hear the word protest in it? So you have to remember that Protestants started because there were Catholic priests who protested against the pope. So we were all Catholic at one time, and they protested, and they said, We don't like these things. And ultimately, the Catholic church, I believe, responded incorrectly.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so Catholic priests who were reading their Bibles said, We gotta change. We gotta start something else. And that's where the Protestant movement came out of the Catholic church. But a Catholic priest is saved in the same way that I am saved. Have they repented of their sins?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Have they placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ? They are not saved because they're Catholic, and you are not saved because you go to Sandals. We are saved because of Jesus, and has our faith and trust been placed in him? And so what happens to good people that don't accept Jesus? They stand before Jesus on judgment day.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's what happens to them. So you're asking me, how does that play out? That's up to Jesus. He's Lord. He's Lord of all.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He decides. He's sovereign. Do they go to hell simply for the fact that they weren't saved, or do they just go nowhere because they don't live on? So now you're into like a whole another Yeah, realm of mean, Danielle, so these are all kinds of questions. So some Christians believe in what's called annihilation, and so what that means is you don't suffer forever, you just cease to exist at some point.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So you pay the penalties for your sin, and then you die at some point. Some Christians, and I don't agree with, so that one might be possible. Another group of Christians believe in what's called universalism. And so what they believe is everyone will be saved eventually because of the blood of Jesus Christ. I don't agree with that because of all the warnings of Jesus.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I think judgment is a real thing, and hell is a real place. And I don't think in that instance, he's just using metaphor. I think he's describing a real place with metaphor, but it's a real place, and you don't want to go. And then there's some people who believe, like C. S.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Lewis, that you have an opportunity afterwards maybe to get right. I don't see that either, but you know, I mean, I don't know. So what I would just say is this, stop worrying about the goodness of Jesus. He's good. He's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's true. And whatever decision he renders on the day of judgment when we're all standing there, none of us are going to disagree, because he is wisdom personified, and so he's going make the right decision, and he's going be gracious. I think what we can do as Christians, because we all have family members and friends that we deeply love that matter to us and are not saved, What I think we can do is we can just go to the Lord and say, Lord, this person is bound up with me, and I can't help but not love them.
Tammy Brown:That's good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I would just say, Lord, I humbly ask that you would be gracious to them as you are to me on the day of judgment. And then we have to trust Jesus in that moment, and just say, Judgment is real, heaven is real, hell is real, but I believe that Jesus will render judgment correctly, and it still may make me sad, but it will be the right judgment, and we have to trust that. And this is why, Danielle, we have to share the gospel, we have to invite people to be saved, we have to invite people to repent. Instead of worrying about what Jesus is gonna do, we have to ask ourselves, why don't I share my faith?
Tammy Brown:Yeah. Our our lives a testimony Yeah. Of his sacrifice, of his goodness.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So and we we need to share the gospel, the good news, because there's some really bad news, and that is, you know, we've all lost loved ones. We all know death is real. You cannot live forever apart from Christ, and so we don't know exactly what that is, Danielle, but we know this. Heaven is real, the new earth is real, and hell is real, whatever it is, and here's what I would say, you don't want to go there. You don't want to go there.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You don't want to end up there. Jesus said it's better to gouge out your eye or cut off your hand than go there.
Tammy Brown:Wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I trust him. I mean, I trust him in that. So I think these are things, Danielle, questions that theologians wrestle with, Christians wrestle with, philosophers have wrestled with, and people have not come to the exact same conclusion, but I think these are great questions, and if I've confused you more than answered you, ask a providing question, but man, these were tough today.
Tammy Brown:I know. Wow, wow. Great job tackling those. Yeah. Thank you, Danielle, for those questions.
Tammy Brown:You've probably asked some questions a lot of people are thinking, which is exactly the point. So to anyone who might have a question, we ask that you write this in. And if you like this podcast, please let us know by subscribing. Leave us comments. Send those questions in.
Tammy Brown:And for everyone who supports the show at sandalschurch.com/support, we wanna thank you so much because you make this platform possible for people like Danielle and others to write in the hard questions that they're wrestling with and get some kind of spiritual advice or wisdom in those. And so thank you so much for that. If you wanna be a part of that, go do that. Again, sandalschurch.com/support. And until next time, we'll see you later.
Celeste Contreras:Thank you for listening. We hope this conversation helped you grow in your faith. If you've enjoyed today's episode, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe on YouTube so you don't miss what's next. You can also stay connected by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok for behind the scenes clips, highlights, and more ways to engage with the community. We'll see you next time right here on the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown.