Guiding the next generation

Every generation needs people willing to invest in the next. Dr Jean Carter, national director of Adventist Schools Australia, joins us on Record Live to explore how each of us can help shape young people’s lives—whether we’re teachers, Pathfinder leaders, or simply passionate about sowing into the next generation. 

What is Record Live Podcast?

Record Live is a conversation about life, spirituality and following Jesus in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

 Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Zanita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.

Hello everybody. We are without Captain Jared, unfortunately this week, but I am delighted to be able to have Jean Carter, the Director of Adventist Schools Australia with us today. So Jean, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you. It's good to be here.

Now, Jean, I'll be honest, Jared and I express excitement for all of the guests we have on this show, but I really am thrilled to get to talk to you today for those of you who are watching or listening. When I was growing up, Jean was actually a leader at my local church. She was mine and my siblings Par final leader and cyber school leader for many, many years. And we often have a lot of conversations on this show about living out our faith and sowing into others.

And often when we have these conversations, naturally we dwell on the people who have kind of been that for us and Jean has definitely been that for myself.

And that's what we are talking about today. We're talking about influencing young people. But before we get into that, Jean, do you just wanna tell us a little bit about the current role that you're in?

Yeah, well, I've been blessed to be the national director for Adventist education for the last three years, and it's been really great working with teams of people that just care about the students in their schools and to see how we can impact them, how we can reveal Jesus, and how we can make a difference in the lives.

Yep. It's behind a desk, a desk warrior at times at the moment, but but it's just wonderful. With the whole team. Team that we've gotten education.

Yeah, I'm sure your role has changed a lot over the years from being very hands-on to now being behind a desk, and I'd be interested to hear a bit more about that later. But you are about to step into a new role as head of the School of Education and Science at Avondale. University. That's a bit of a lengthy title. Do you wanna break that down for us? Is that a principal kind of role? Is that a working in the labs kind of role? Tell us what that role will look like.

It's just looking after the team in education at Avondale, so the teacher training and in the science department.

So it, it's very similar, just looking after the team and, and working with the team at Avondale. They're doing a great job and influencing the teachers that come into our school system. So yeah, I'm excited about moving there.

Yeah. Awesome. I was thinking about this before and I'm really interested to hear your answer to this. Before you were in the leadership roles you were in, now you are very much hands-on for a long time in the classroom, in pathfinder groups, in cyber school groups.

And I feel like a lot of people step into roles like that because their kids are involved and they're sort of expected to help out from time to time. But that's not really your story. So what was the inspiration or motivation for you to step into those kind of roles?

Look right from when I was a kid, right from five years old. I've got two older sisters and I was the one that would sit them down and teach them, and I was the one that would, I just wanted to be a teacher my entire life and.

I go, I went to a small church when I was a kid, and early in my life my father passed away and my mother didn't drive or anything, and I was just very passionate about Pathfinders and JVs back then, mvs and Pathfinders and the church members took me under their wing and took me to Pathfinders and made sure I had a ride and could go everywhere , and help, and I just loved pathfinders adventurers and the church. Even when, even when I was 16, they asked me to be the, JMB, pre JMB leader at that time in the church. And there was a man, Mr. Chu and Mr. Weir who used to just be in the background, the adult, the adult support. While, while we ran the Prej and Bs and. I just loved it. I just loved, I love working with kids and helping them to see that church is fun and that God is a person who isn't that serious man with the finger shaking, but is someone who just loves you and loves life and loves fun.

Wow. I don't know if this was the same Mr. Chu that I grew up going to church 📍 with

📍 he was a legend.

I'm going down memory lane now, but going back to what you said, that image that we give of Jesus to young people is so important in how they obviously come to think of him. Did those people in your life demonstrate that fun loving God in how they engaged with you? Also more than it just being something that they told you about?

Very much so. Each one of them I can see as. They were happy to be a little bit different. I, I always like to sort of do a little bit different things in kids stories or church, present them a little bit differently and some members would go, tuck, tuck. You can't do that in church. But the folk, these folk that I've mentioned were just supportive. They said, no, look, it isn't biblical. You're not doing anything wrong. It's just different. And some people are a little bit afraid of different. Kids tend to, to love, to love something different. And so each one of them just showed a picture of God that was very loving, encompassing, still an important person to respect, but someone that just loves you immensely.

So yeah, they did very much.

I love that. And I guess it also gives them permission to feel free to be themselves. Is there anyone else that comes to mind who influenced you when you were young that has shaped how you lead today or who you think of often as inspiration

I could probably

know a lot and starting with, with Norm Troop with John Morris, Andrew Wong, all people that just nurtured and cared for me and set me on the straight and narrow in so many different ways. And then moving into my professional career, people like John Roy, John Hammond, Daryl Murdoch. Just wonderful people who have guided me and led me right through my career.

that's so good. There's obviously so many self-help books out these days on leadership and mentoring and understanding young people. Um, but I feel like nothing compares to the example of wholesome good people. It's so awesome to hear that there's been so many people who have been that for you in your life.

Yeah.

You mentioned earlier that your role is looking a bit different now while you have been in roles where you've been tangibly with young people. You are currently in roles where your influence is a bit more indirect. Sort of overseeing people who are working with young people. What are some of the principles or values that you try to pass onto those working with young people today that perhaps anyone can take with them?

Yeah. When I first went to Avondale, with the young teachers that were just graduating, I gave them a little dog tag. That's a farewell gift. That said, always love your students because it doesn't matter.

You can learn anything, but you have to have a heart to love your students. And so right through, I think that's the key for me. To everything. You actually want to do this job because you love them. And if you love them, you'll really try to do the best for them in all sorts ways. In academic, in spiritual, in social, and interestingly, one of the students that was in that first class just saw me, 'cause I'm talking maybe 30 years ago now, just saw me the other day and showed me the dog tag she still has on her key chain. And so I thought, she said, every time I un unlock my school door, I see that. Always love your students.

What do you do in that case when you have really difficult students? Like practically speaking for people who have, I don't know, a student or someone in their youth group who is really challenging and who really test their limits or grinds their gears, what does it look like in those situations to love their students?

Yeah. I started my career in single culture schools, so very small schools, So there was no choice. You had to get on with each other, because that was it. It was just you and the kids, there always are some that are a little bit different to you, but it doesn't mean they're wrong or they, or that you are wrong or whatever. They're just different and God loves them anyway. So how do I cope with that?

And I remember very clearly in my first school I'd arrive at school half an hour early and sit at that kid's desk and pray for them. Because it's my heart that had to change to make things change, and I truly believe in the power of prayer. And when you truly want to get to the bottom of what really motivates them or why they're acting like they're, um, out of love.

You can normally find a way and, and you work with that and you meet the child where they're at. I remember one of the children, her family was falling apart and I didn't have any idea and she was acting up, praying for her. God led me to ask some questions and she opened. And, you know, she just needed love.

Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. She'd push you away a little bit, but she just needed stability and love.

Yeah. So it's about, I guess, persisting and showing them that love. I guess it's often the children who are troublesome that have things going on who need, need that key chain from us.

Oh, but can I say as a, as a teacher, it's those children that you see succeed that just makes your heart feel, you see them as wonderful citizens and you know, you just go, thank you, God, you, you.

You've really worked a miracle in this one's life and that's lovely.

And the other thing is, it's getting. To understand their interest. You know, I have no interest whatsoever in Star Wars, but back when it was a big thing, you know, one of the kids that, that would often join me at lunchtime, not by choice, but would often join me at lunchtime.

We'd sit and we'd talk about Star Wars and he'd come alive and he'd just share all these different bits and pieces. So just being interested in what they're interested in. Mm.

Yeah it reminds me of that famous quote. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Yeah.

Um, today's young people are growing up in a world and in a classroom that's vastly different to the worlds that you and I were raised in. Every now and then I go into schools and do workshops, and I'm always astounded by the things that they're exposed to, the things that they talk about, the things that they do on the weekends. Like, it just blows my mind. Obviously there are the technological changes and we'll probably touch on AI a little bit later, but what are some of the challenges that you are seeing in schools at the moment?

I think for me there's probably three challenges. Mm-hmm. And the first one is that there is a of need and therefore there is no need for God. So because they have everything, very, very few, there are some to be fair, that that don't have, but many, you know, have phones, have access to the internet, have the information. Their friends are important, so they don't need God and I think sharing that is just.

So critical because print will change, technology will change, they'll get older and. If they don't have self-worth or what I like to call, not self-esteem, God esteem, if they don't have God esteem in their life, then when the tough times come, they fall apart. And that just breaks my heart to see, you know, to hear the suicide rate, et cetera.

It, it's tough. So that's the first one. The second one is this, this drive about societal norms and how before in Australia anyway, yes, there were slight differences, but our values were very similar. Mm. And matter where you go or what you did or where you worked, there were similar goals.

There were similar values. Nowadays it's really hard. Sometimes to speak up for what you believe. Mm. Even if it's done in love, because you're canceled in. So, in so many, and this cancel culture, really, really hurts young people because they're in that mode of figuring out where they are in society, to know that society has canceled them.

Really touches it. So I think that too, we've gotta make sure that they feel like they, they're part of a group, that what they're feeling and what they're sharing, you know? Yep. You need to talk about issues and all the rest of it go and to remember that the other person has feelings too.

To respect their feelings. Like there's so much that you see on Facebook that just hurts. Get off it. You know, think that person, you're saying that the real person who will hurt. And I guess the third thing is busy family lives. I believe we just need to slow down and breathe and spend time with family and so many people resent spending time because of their other commitments or this or that then it's not quality time. And so it's, I had a lovely song on Sabbath that was just slow down, slow down.

Mm-hmm. Um,

and for me, I think we need to let our young people know that too by demonstrating that in our families and what we do in schools as well.

I think that's really important. So let me just reiterate that. So the lack of need, cancel culture and societal norms and busy families, which I'm sure everyone can relate to probably, probably all three of these, to be honest in some sense. But at least one, I'm sure we can all.

Relate to, and I think, going back to what you were saying about cancel culture, I know there was an incident here on the Gold Coast recently where a student was canceled and I thought about it because, you know, when we were in school, if I made a mistake or had an argument with someone or accidentally said something or something out, it wasn't recorded and then blasted all over the internet like it can be today, which is just so insane. There's just there's no room for people to kind of like stuff up or make mistakes.

And if something happened at school, you could go home and be away from it and have that, that downtime away from it. Now you can't, it's very difficult for them.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, talk to us a little bit about artificial intelligence as someone overseeing Adventist education across Australia, what kinds of conversations are happening around this? I, I heard recently that they did a survey in America and it was something like 50% of the population once AI gone, which is interesting. So I understand that there's probably a mix of emotions for education leaders, but also for parents, um, who are thinking about their children's future and for future parents who are thinking, do I even want to raise kids in this world? So how are schools preparing for this or responding to the rise of technologies like ai?

Yeah, so we believe in everything with an Adventist filter.

So for us, like computers, they're really just a pattern pen in electronic form, but there's so much you can access through them that you've gotta teach how to choose what's right. How to filter out the myths and how to actually research and read all that you find in Google with an eye that says, you know, is this truth or is this not truth?

And so those overlying principles of. Teaching a child how to think, coming back to Ellen White to think and not reflect other people's thoughts. But to think for themselves, to me is critical. And when you do that. Then all the technology falls into place. Computers are a great thing. Use them as a tool.

Don't live on them. You know, I don't have a Facebook account, so I'll say it out there, but if you do, you know, or whatever other media that it is, use it. Use it for good. And put it away, have time where it's not there. Artificial intelligence, it's new for us too. So we are working through policies and what needs to happen, but I have to tell you, in a safe network, so not one that goes out to the worldwide web.

So when you're in a safe network on ai, it is wonderful. So you plug in something that you want to write and they'll spit it out for you and then make it into a PowerPoint. But again, God has given us a human brain that you must review it. You can't just accept what they've written. You must review it, you must read it.

You must edit it. You must make it suitable for what you want, but use it. It's there to be used and it's a wonderful strength as long as it is in within a safe network. And that's what I love about our Adventist schools technology team. Everything is in this safe network and yeah, there are breaches at times and we've gotta deal with them, but overall very, very good in what they do.

It's about finding that balance of this can be great and really for us, but we also need boundaries around that and need to use the brains that God has given us.

Yeah,

So Teaching them media literacy skills, which I'm sure we could all do with a crash course on, um, the adults need that just as much, if not more than the kids right now.

And not, and not live on it.

You know, outside there is so many, you know, blue and green. Get out there. This is the live more happy Darren Morton's work. Get out there, breathe fresh air. Get out on the grass, get out, see the sky. A little bit of that every day actually makes a big difference. And that's why with kids so often, I would take them outside to do an activity of some kind, but outside because it makes a huge difference in their mental states.

I know when I'm in a funk or struggling to concentrate, getting outside is incredibly helpful. Um, Jane, many people who volunteer or work in roles with children reach a point of burnout after a few years because it obviously can be quite exhausting.

And I know for many years when I was under your leadership, you led with so much passion, so much enthusiasm and intention. And you're still doing it. So how have you managed to keep that passion and energy alive year after year?

It's actually a passion. I actually love what I do and love the students and therefore, you know, especially a few years ago PATH, I was doing pathfinders, I was doing service school and I was, and I was in school land.

And people say, how can you do that, you know, every day of the week. I actually loved it. I think I'm a big kid. I think that's the problem. And I love having the chance to play games or do craft or tell a story or introduce someone to God or go on a hike or it's a reason for me, I have to say just for me 'cause everyone's different.

But it's a reason to get out there and just something fun. And I think that's why. I know some can't do it. And that's fine. You know, talking about kids accepting who they are, we need to accept who adults are. But for me it was just, I actually just loved doing it. And to see the smile on a kid's face when you take them camel riding for the first time, you.

Ooh, this was worth it.

Yeah. Yeah. Living vicariously through all their first experiences, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad I think teaching was one of the one jobs that I ran from the quicker, um, very thankful for, um, people who were stepping into those roles. From what you've observed with working with young people, what is the one thing that you wanna pass on to people who are working with young adults or young people in general?

Yeah, take the time. Take the time to actually know the students, not to criticize their likes and dislikes, but to try and understand them.

If a kid feels like they've been disapproved of. Act more. But if you can get on board with them and guide them to maybe looking at things a little bit differently or trying something different, it, it comes back to that spending time with them really caring about what they're doing and why they're doing it.

And, and for parents especially monitoring what the kids are doing. Because they're very clever. Kids are very clever and they'll find round ways, round all your rules about technology or, or trying new things. And if you don't give them the experience, like you get in Puff Ones to try some risk taking in a safe environment, then they will try risk taking in their own environment without the borders and boundaries that you put in there.

And it's all about. Taking time, giving them chance to grow, giving them an excitement about life. Life is worth living, you know, and giving them strategies to cope with when life does fall apart, how do you cope with that? For me, I think that would be critical.

You mentioned risk taking. Just so we don't, um, start lighting fires with our kids in the bush. Can you give us some examples of what that might look like?

Uh, well in Pathfinders, yeah, particularly in Pathfinders, to be fair, ab sailing, or doing. Extreme like scuba diving or snorkeling or whatever, those that they'd never usually have a chance to do is a little bit nervous. You know, you've gotta fill out your risk assessment form. Yes. Yeah. Pain in the neck, that's a pain in the neck. But we've gotta, but it gives them something to do, doing a huge hike. Or doing some orienteering, you know, you might actually get lost. And that's a risk. So it takes them away from unhealthy risks to healthy risks, canyoning, kayaking, water, raf, all those sorts of things.

It's just really good, healthy things that, that gives a child woo-hoo, you know, I've done this and it's exciting. But it's also based in God in nature and in something healthy.

Yeah. Yeah. So getting 'em out of their comfort zone and I guess navigating them.

Absolutely. Even, even just learning to be friends with people outside of their friendship circle is

actually a really good skill to have had.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well while we are excited for your new role and where that will take you, are you able to tell us who was taking over your position and perhaps, I'm not sure if you know, sort of what their vision is, um, going

forward? Yeah. So we are very fortunate that Jack Ryan, the current education director in South Queensland is taking over the national role next year, and he is just a marvelous person, a very God filled spiritual person.

He's done a lot of work with students and being able to encourage them and share faith with them. Um, the Pacific Islander kids, , he's very good at that, but his heart is for Adventist education and he's been a leader in South Queensland, Queensland for many years. He's been principal at, many schools in New Zealand and Australia, and we are really looking to to having him on board here at Adventist Schools Australia.

Well, Jean, we like to finish record live by getting practical, and I know you've already given a lot of really good advice for people who are working with younger people, but I would love to know a little bit about leadership.

I know when I was in Pathfinders, people didn't wanna leave, didn't wanna graduate, because you just made the experience so fun and so enjoyable, and that didn't just include young people. I know my parents, for example, are two people who, have really loved leading young people with you. So talk to us about that. How do we practically become leaders that people love to follow and love to lead with?

I believe that the key to being a good leader is you can be a good servant as well, that you can let people lead with their strengths. That you get a team around you that have different strengths to yours, and you let them shine when it's their strength and you let the next person shine when it's their strength and you step back and sweep the floors if necessary with what's happening. And for me, that was Christ's model. And I truly believe it's a good model to have.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and your heart with us today. I have no doubt that you've impacted many people's lives, so Yeah, it was great to be able to chat to you again, and we wish you all the best as you go into your next role.

Thank you so much.

And I have to say to God, be the glory because he has. He has given me a wonderful, wonderful career and the chance to work with students, something my heart just loves to do.