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See more at Switchfly.com
Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.
In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.
Let's get to it.
Brandon Giella: Hello and welcome
back to another episode of Travel
Buddy, presented by Switch Fly.
We have, as always, Ian Anderson, Rachel
au Thank you again for joining Rachel,
not feeling super well, so she might
not be talking too much on this episode.
We'll see how it goes.
and we have as our guest
today, Jessica Steinberg.
Thank you so much for joining.
How was your day so far, Jessica?
Jessica Steinberg: It is good.
Excited to be here.
Brandon Giella: Awesome,
thanks for joining.
So you are the travel Packaging marketing
manager at Switch Fly and which is
kind of a hard title to get right.
So I hope I got that right.
and so you are today helping us
understand more of the loyalty
programs behind Switch Fly, its
customers and general loyalty trends.
So the title of today's episode
is Airline Loyalty Programs.
What's Next for Frequent Flyers?
So I would love to hear, just right off
the bat, catch us up on the, I guess like
the last 10 years or so of travel loyalty.
How do you see it from
the airlines perspective?
What trends or context or history
do we need to know about as.
I guess participants and listeners of
this episode what do we need to know about
what has happened over the last 10 years?
What trends or historical context have
gone into airline travel loyalty programs?
And then we'll get into what's some
trends that are affecting today, and
then where are we headed in the future?
And of course, why does all this matter.
Especially as an airline, especially
as a loyalty program provider.
So catch us up, give us a brief
rundown on how you see things
over the last 10 years or so.
Jessica Steinberg: So I'm coming from
the land of vacation package marketing.
So I'm wholly ingrained for, you know,
the last several years talking about
how to earn and burn on packages.
And so what I've seen as both a
customer and then also in a professional
way I've really seen a lot of
different airlines big and small,
go from, you know, the traditional.
Offering, earn and burn on flights.
Sometimes some anci ancillaries
and things like that to, beyond
that, to packages, to car rentals,
to hotels, to things like that.
And really giving customers more
reason to want to earn therefore
really amping up their loyalty program
and the reason for being part of it.
You know, if you're.
If you have a small network as an
airline and the customers in some
areas don't feel the need to burn their
points on flights with your airline,
but they, you know, love to stay in
hotels and earn points that's a really
great way for airlines to kind of
get in on the rest of that customer's
travel package, if that makes sense.
Brandon Giella: Okay.
Okay, great.
And so you're seeing some of these
things kind of develop today on
different, you know, consumer needs
or different offerings from airlines.
How do you see how to market this
information and make sure that an
airline is positioned well, that
they capture some of these trends and
really deliver value for the end user?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I mean,
I think, you know, it's all
about having the customer buy
into the holistic airline brand.
If the customer trusts the airline
and they love that airline, which
many customers, you know, they have
that one airline that they truly
love and they have the credit card,
they're part of the loyalty program.
Maybe they're.
You know, the highest status of
loyalty, they get their upgrades.
If they really trust that airline and
you can get them to that place with
the airline, they'll then trust you.
You know, they'll book their
hotel with points, they'll book
their car rental with points.
You know, they'll book a full on vacation
package with that airline because
they just trust that airline for from
the beginning to the booking process,
to their customer service to the end
result, you know, when they check
into the hotel and things like that.
And so being able to.
Speak to those customers about, you know,
their entire vacation versus just, you
know, the flight, you know, beyond, we
have the most leg room, you know, we have
that plus so much more and you get all
of it as part of this loyalty program.
You get your upgrades, you know, you
get ancillaries and things like that.
I know American Airlines just
launched the ability to redeem.
Points for in-flight purchases, which I
thought was really interesting too, and
just being able to stretch those points.
If you can book everything without
taking out your wallet, then
all the better for the airline.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Awesome.
Okay, so you're seeing
this really as like a brand
differentiator in the market today.
The way that you're able to say, you
know, hey, you can redeem points.
In flight for a drink or
whatever, and that's like, Hey,
actually I do wanna fly American.
This is great.
So, presumably you guys are seeing
internally at least some data
where like, if we can bundle this
appropriately, you can position it.
Well, given these trends, given
the market demand you actually
do seem some really good benefit.
You know, like I said, this could be
internal data or external data or maybe
anecdotes from clients, things like that.
But you're hearing some real impact.
Is that right?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, absolutely.
And I would say, you know, it also
gives, you know, revenue management
teams and loyalty teams, the ability.
To even do some testing.
You know, with the opaque price of a
package, it's, you know, all one price.
You don't see the price of the
flight in the hotel separately.
It gives them, you know, flexibility
to be able to say, you know, we're
gonna change our redemption rates
and make them a little bit better
for customers buying a package.
If you're gonna go all in with us, you'll
get, you know, more for your points.
And they'll go further for you if
you book the entire package with us.
And so it kind of opens doors
for testing and things like that.
Brandon Giella: Interesting.
Rachel Satow: So
something that I think is.
Important for us to chat about
is why this is happening.
And I know we've chatted about this
in the past on the podcast, but you
know, we are really seeing that shift
with millennials and Gen Z becoming the
stakeholders in the consumer marketplace.
So if you think about.
You know how brands 10 years ago were
having to structure their loyalty programs
that isn't going to work today simply
because today's consumer doesn't want it.
So if you're thinking about your
millennials and your Gen Z who are
expected to make up 50% or more of
leisure travel in the US by 2030,
you know what is going to make those
audiences happy?
And how can we market to
those audiences appropriately?
And I think.
To your point, Jessica earlier about, you
know, finding other ways to earn and burn
these audience audiences are looking for
more flexible insta instant gratification
when it comes to how they can use their
loyalty program points and the ability
to be able to redeem for in-flight, you
know, refreshments, et cetera, is vital.
Like that's, that is such an interesting
way to be able to, you know, start to.
Get rid of some of those points and not
have to save up for a thousands of points
from, for another flight, et cetera.
Brandon Giella: That's right.
It makes it an easy way, like
you said, to redeem those points.
But also it's like a delight to
the customer if it's like, ah, I
want to get a glass of wine, but I.
Wanna spend $5 and then it's
like, oh, I could use 25
points, or whatever the rate is.
And it's like, okay, I get
my glass of wine and I didn't
have to shell out any cash.
That sounds great.
It's like a win-win for everybody.
Ian Andersen: I think Brandon,
something you mentioned earlier I
think really resonates as far as this
is a big time differentiator, right?
Airline travel has historically
been customers have a lot of
brand difference as long as.
The plane gets you from my
airport to where I want to go.
Who cares if it's United American,
JetBlue, whatever, you know, as long
as like time and price are right.
I don't really care.
So how do you ensure people are going to
your website to book their flight rather
than a travel aggregator where the first.
You know, airline pops up.
And I think this, there's not a whole lot
of ways to do that in airlines, right?
I mean, they are generally
pretty much the same.
They're a method of transportation, right?
There's not a whole lot
of ways to differentiate.
Unless you're gonna start getting
just way out there with price.
So, so I think this is a
really good example of ways to
differentiate that's probably
pretty low cost on the airline side.
And you know, it doesn't.
It doesn't really cost
the consumer any anymore.
And it's just a way of earning
and keeping their business.
So I think that's a big
part of this as well.
Brandon Giella: Yeah,
that's a great point.
That's a great point.
The airline industry is notorious
for having razor thin margins.
Everything comes down to, you know, fuel
costs and leg room because if I can cram
one more row of seats in there, I get, I.
You know, enough money to basically pay
for that plane to travel in addition to
the plane and the crew and the airport
terminal and all that kind of stuff.
So this is a really great way to kind
of tease that out and position yourself.
In a really useful way.
It delights everybody.
Like I said, there's a, it's
a win-win for all parties.
But here's the question, I guess
is how do you know what to offer or
what to bundle or what to, you know,
ways that you could use rewards?
So presumably.
There's a lot of customer data that you
can use to personalize these offerings.
And I know we've talked a lot
about AI on the show before.
I think just the last episode we had
Rod Rob Neat on the show and he's,
you know, head of AI basically at
Switch fly, doing amazing work there.
And so I would love to hear from a
marketer's perspective and thinking about.
Travel loyalty, thinking about
packaging, bundling, and positioning
in the market as these trends are
developing, market demand is changing.
How do you see using AI and data to
present or find different options
that might appeal to travelers today?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I mean, I think
as far as AI goes, you're starting to see
on a lot of airline and packaging sites
you know, the Expedias of the world.
They all have this kind of, you
know, travel bot that can help
you find what you're looking for.
Which I think is gonna become
commonplace, and it's just gonna
be about who has the best one.
If you go to Expedia and look
for, you know, all inclusives in
Cancun, there are hundreds of very
similar hotels to choose from.
And I think it's gonna become an
expectation, especially like Rachel said,
you know, with Gen Z and millennials to.
You know, lean on AI to really help them
hone in and find that perfect hotel.
'cause in a destination like that,
the hotel is the destination.
And so leaning on things like that, I
think is gonna become commonplace and just
a race to see who can have the best bot.
Brandon Giella: Interesting.
Okay.
Have you seen any kind of interesting or
intriguing use of marketing or loyalty?
You mentioned American Airlines showing.
Or being able to use points
to redeem in-flight purchases.
But is there anything else that you've
kind of caught your attention or you're
paying attention to as you see kinda
the news cycle or you're seeing product
develop or just anything in marketing
that's catching your attention these days?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I think one
thing, one thing that's, you know,
like you said, it's huge for airlines
to make money beyond the flight seat.
Because those margins are so
thin the credit cards are huge.
And it really plays a huge part.
In the loyalty segment for all airlines.
And so, you know, getting that customer
to that point of loyalty and then
getting them to get the credit card
because those margins are much larger.
And getting them to get to that point,
but then use the credit card on, you
know, in flight purchases outside of the
airline packages and things like that.
And then rewarding them for doing it
and making sure that they're feeling
the benefits that, you know, I'm
spending all of this money with this
airline 'cause I have this credit
card and they're giving it back to me.
And so.
Great.
You booked a flight, you get this
many extra points because you
booked a flight on our credit card.
But if you book a package,
you get even more.
And things like that I think
are gonna become, again,
commonplace for the airlines.
They need these customers to
use those credit cards and the
customers will use the credit cards
if they feel like it's worth it.
And I think we're seeing a trend.
I know the point sky is.
Huge.
There's really been this kind of
gamification of who can get the best deal.
And, you know, I read
articles all the time.
You know, I flew to Europe
for, you know, 180,000 points,
didn't even take out my wallet.
And so I think there's definitely
this community of people that,
you know, want to be exactly
like that and get to that place.
Whether it be with a Chase or Amex or
you know, a JetBlue or American Card.
Brandon Giella: That's great.
That's great.
Reddit is a great place for that.
By the way, if anybody has these
kind of like models that they
want to build or spreadsheets or
whatever, head on over to Reddit.
I've been following.
There's a subreddit called
one Bag Travel, and then.
It's cousin zero bag travel, which
is people that are traveling around
Europe, for example, for like a month
with like one little backpack and
like rolled up t-shirts and stuff.
And it's great.
It's so inspirational and
I realize I'm a hoarder.
Ian Andersen: Y Yeah, same.
If let's just side tangent.
If you're in, the people in the military
can show up on Air Force Base and if
there's like, availability on one of
the planes going somewhere, you can
get on it's called Space A Travel.
And they recommend like.
I show up with two bags.
One's got like summer clothes
and one winter clothes.
'cause you don't really necessarily
know where you're going.
But it can be a fun way
to vacation sometimes
Brandon Giella: Am I inspired
to join the military?
Did I just, is that what's
happening to me right now?
That's amazing.
Ian Andersen: That, that is not the
primary selling point, but you know.
Brandon Giella: That's right.
There are other ones.
No, that's great.
I'm curious.
Okay, so Jessica, so you you are obviously
a marketer, you're a professional
doing this, but I want to know, as
a traveler, how do you go about.
Thinking.
So now that you know the system you have
been in the Matrix, you were hacking
the mainframe, and, but now you're
like booking travel to go somewhere.
How do you think about booking
all the things that you want?
Like you're, you know, obviously
you need the flight, you need
the hotel, you need the car, you
need the experiences, whatever.
How do you do that now as like a
knowledgeable expert for us novices who
don't know how to do this and don't know
how the system works what's your like,
recommendation or what's your process?
How do you go through this and like,
think about it as a human being?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah.
And so even though I've, you know,
marketed vacation packages for a living
for the past several years, I've always
really been an a la carte booker.
As much as I believe in the
package business and how much
great value you can get in it.
But I always say I would look at
price, but also the value that
you're getting, whether you're
booking a la carte or as a package.
You know, I've had instances where
I've seen people in the airport,
they booked the same thing, you
know, with a package company and
with Expedia, and they're getting.
You know, almost the same product,
but one of them is getting picked
up at the airport when they get
there and the other person is not.
And so yes, price matters, but also make
sure you're comparing what you're getting.
Are you know, is your bag free?
You know, are you getting extra
points on your credit card because
you're booking with that specific
airline in that specific card?
And so it's not always
necessarily just about the price.
Sometimes it might be worth
paying a tiny bit more to get.
That extra value when you're, you know,
either in flight or when you get to
your destination and things like that.
So it's really, I could spend honestly
hours planning a trip just going back
and forth comparing 'cause there I find
that, you know, whether it's a package or
a la carte and nothing is truly apples to
apples when you compare different options.
And so looking at, like I said, at
both price and what you're getting
for that price is really important.
Brandon Giella: What comes to mind
is as you're talking, it also might
depend on your kinda lifestyle,
your preferences, things like that.
What you find as valuable.
'cause it's easy to one bag or
zero bag if you're just like this.
Bachelor, like single person,
you're 20 and you can just go
stay at a hostel or whatever.
But when you're, as I am an old
man at 35 with two kids and a wife,
and I need to travel to Charleston,
which is where I am now, is why I
have a different background today.
And I have.
Loads of bags that I cannot
believe that I'm traveling with.
I need like a cart, I need
a pickup at the airport.
I need, like, I need a hundred things
that I did not need five years ago.
So I guess yeah, definitely your
value criteria changes over time.
So that's definitely a
Ian Andersen: Especially with
your, what, eight week old is that?
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Right.
Yes.
Nine weeks now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good
Ian Andersen: It's incredible how
like the pound of bag per pound of
child ratio goes down over time.
'cause Yeah, I don't miss that.
Brandon Giella: yes.
Well, I'm deep into that right now.
The pump and all the charging
equipment and all the things that
are in the suitcase and weighing
it down, it's 48 and a half pounds.
I just narrowly got under
that 50 pound limit.
Okay.
I've been talking a lot.
Rachel, Ian, I would love
for y'all to jump in.
Like, I want to include you
guys in this conversation.
Rachel Satow: Well, one of,
Ian Andersen: said
something that rang a cord.
Sorry, Rachel.
I'm trying to be mindful of your
voice today, so that's, yeah.
I'm not talking too much.
The Jessica said something that, that's
kind of hit a little close to home for
me as being an a la carte traveler.
I don't know if it's like.
I internally, subconsciously just feel
I can do it better than they can, you
know, in putting my package together.
But the more I've worked in the travel
industry, you know, now for several years
and starts to meet more and more people
like Jessica really putting stuff together
it does make a lot of sense right to, to
go the package route and especially with
new technology and new tools available.
You know, we talked a lot last week
about AI being able to do a lot of this.
I think people instinctively kind of
understand that the personalization
side of ai, but you know, it can do so
much more in regards to, to like point
versus cache optimization and even
like a more technically on the airline
side of like the route planning and
ways for them to reduce costs as well.
And also something that I've thought
a lot about over the last couple
years that Jessica, I'm sure has
thought a lot about is airlines are
really good at one thing, right?
And that's moving a plane
from one place to another.
They're not really that
good at anything else.
So.
We've seen it over and over with different
airlines having trouble early in their
sort of reward and credit card phases,
their, you know, their hotel offerings,
things like that, that they tend to
not do those very well and that makes
sense 'cause they're a freaking airline.
So having somebody like Jessica and
working at somewhere like Switch
fly that works with airlines, the
airlines can hire us to sort of.
Manage that for them and put
that all together for them.
It makes the all around experience for the
customer just so much better because then
airlines can just focus on what they're
good at and leave the rest of that to us.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
To double down on that point.
It seems like what I'm gathering
from this conversation is not only
does switch fly, help alleviate
I guess that kind of strategic.
Burden to market or to package or put
these kind of offers together 'cause you
guys will help with that and help put
the technology and the implementation
together so that a user can use that,
but also it helps the user in that.
By packaging and bundling these kind
of travel offerings so that the whole
itinerary is covered within a package.
It also helps the user, so it helps
the airline, helps the user make
that connection between, to Jessica's
point, like make sure that value
is there along that whole booking
process, which is really cool.
That's.
Rachel Satow: So something else as
we consider how loyalty programs
are potentially going to have to
change specifically airline loyalty
programs with the changing consumer
market is knowing a la carte shoppers
like Jessica, Ian, myself included.
I
also an a la carte.
I, we talked about this a little bit
last week, but, having the ability
to capture the attention before
they're ready to book is vital.
And when you have marketers like Jessica.
Come to, to you to, you know, help you
with marketing your loyalty program.
The other side of it is having the
technology to serve up and ensure that
they can do the research on your platform
without necessarily needing to book.
And that's one thing that like, as
we consider improvements to switch
fly and where we can enhance with
AI features, et cetera, like we're
trying to capture more of that.
Booking journey, that full research.
Where should I go?
What is the, you know, what
neighborhood should I be staying in?
To Jessica's point, way back at the
beginning of this episode, you look
at hotels in Cancun and they're
hundreds of them that probably are all
about the same, but one in one very.
You know, Beachside area is going to
be a much different experience than
something that's a little bit more inland.
And how can you compare that
without technology, kind of like.
Giving you that context.
And so that's something that loyalty
programs and as airline loyalty programs
look to expand through dynamic packaging,
et cetera, that is something to consider
is just, do you have the technology
to help capture the buyer's attention
and the process that they're following
before they're ready to book necessarily.
Brandon Giella: I wonder it's a
challenge with that, and this is just an.
A random thought I'm having right now.
I don't know how you would answer
this, but I think the challenge
with that is that, that whatever the
AI platform would be, switch fly.
In this case, it would have to know a
lot of information about you as a user.
You know, like it would have to know,
I have two kids, so please don't
put me in like the bachelor pad.
That's like, right.
You know, it's like this
tiny little minimal resort.
Somewhere like it's gotta know
certain context that could be helpful.
But yeah I'm super looking forward to
like having a little travel buddy, pun
intended to help me like understand how
to like book my trip, like the whole thing
front to back would be super helpful.
Ian Andersen: I, I, Brandon, I
think that's a really interesting
point that is a problem for both.
AI systems probably more machine
learning systems and loyalty programs
is to get the maximum amount of
rewards you need to use it more often.
Right.
So how do you.
Encourage people early on when they're
getting the minimal amount of reward from
the system, how do you keep encouraging
them and getting them to that point to
where the first time you jump on switch,
Brandon, they're gonna show you the
little bachelor pad hostels that that,
you know, you're like, that's 20 years
beyond where I need, but by, you know,
the third, fourth, fifth, sixth time
you're there, it's starting to really
learn you and understand your behavior.
And you'll really start to get
the rewards of having a really
good machine learning program.
How do you.
How do you get people to commit to
putting in that long-term effort when
they're not getting the maximum rewards?
Right away.
Brandon Giella: That to me sounds
like the marketer's dilemma.
Yeah, go ahead.
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I mean,
I think on the airline side,
I, you know, totally agree.
You need the customer to use it.
But the really great thing about having
the ability as an airline to package
for customers is you already know so
much about your customers that maybe
other, you know, the Expedias of the
world don't know, you know, what they
search for, you know, what they book,
you know, how they travel, and so.
Being able to kind of kickstarted
from there, I think is huge.
And it gives you, you know, a leg
up as an airline to be able to offer
customers something that, again,
the larger Expedias of the world
that aren't the airline can offer.
And even beyond that, offering them
value to, right, like if you're an
airline, you can offer them something
that Expedia cannot you can give them
something extra in flight, you can give
them extra points and things like that.
And so I think it's the onus is sometimes
on the airline to, to make that happen.
Brandon Giella: That's a great point.
I feel like, you know, personalization
and, you know, digitization
and you know, using, it's like
mass data has been around for.
I think 10, 15 years, people have
been talking about it really heavily,
but we're now, we're entering this
era where these AI tools are able to
harness all of that data for the average
person, you know, whether that's a user
or let's say like, you know, middle
management in an airline or whatever,
to be able to think differently
about how to harness that data.
And so we're entering this
era where that data actually.
Is becoming really usable at scale,
across a wide variety of domains.
I mean, just even earlier this morning
I'm using Claude to like harness like
Notion and Google Drive and my email
and my task management platform to
like pull together context around
different projects or tasks or whatever.
And like I couldn't do that six
months ago, like literally six
months ago I couldn't do that.
Now I've got this like project management.
Executive assistant right at my right
side, you know, and so I'm seeing that.
I could see that being super, super
helpful for for loyalty leaders
that are trying to figure out like,
okay, we've got all this data.
We've got billions and billions
of rows and records of data.
Like what do we do with that?
And now you're able to really
harness that in cool ways and.
That itself becomes the differentiator
between different airlines is how are
they able to harness their data and
present it, and for a user to make it
useful for them as they're booking travel
across a wide variety of of domains.
So yeah I'm really stoked about it.
I think it's such an interesting
era that we're entering into and
many different fronts, which Ian and
I, we can go back and forth on the
history stuff we've talked about in
different episodes but specifically
for loyalty, it's really neat.
So Jessica, we always in shows talking
about our favorite travel experience.
So where have you gone lately
or just sometime in your
life that you really enjoyed?
You should definitely go check out
this city, go to this neighborhood,
there's this great restaurant.
Anything like that come to mind that
listeners should know about that
maybe they haven't thought of before?
Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I
actually, so I've been, you know,
around the block in the Caribbean.
I live in South Florida, so getting to
the Caribbean is very easy, very quick.
I love it.
And it's, a lot of the
destinations are really similar.
You know, you lay on the beach, you have
a cocktail, you go to the spot, repeat.
But what I found when I went to St.
Martin a couple years ago is it's actually
a little bit different of a destination.
And I absolutely loved it.
It was, you know, a really
delightful surprise.
You get, you know, that
beach aspect and you know.
You can book snorkels, like snorkeling
trips and boat rides and things like that.
But then they also have, you know, a
lot of culture with, you know, the two
different sides, the Dutch and the French.
And you can kind of have two
different vacations and the two
sides really are kind of different.
And so again, a surprise that
I wasn't expecting, but I
really enjoyed my trip there.
And it's probably a place I
would go back to for sure.
Brandon Giella: Awesome.
Okay.
Ian Andersen: I was gonna
lose it if she said Paris.
'Cause Paris tends to come
up every single episode
Brandon Giella: I love Paris.
What can I say?
Ian Andersen: I, I don't know if counting
a former French colony counts or not, but
Brandon Giella: Well, if
they have bag hats, I'm in.
Just call me Saint Martins.
I'm there.
French and Dutch.
Right?
There's a, they have a split anyway.
Ian Andersen: Yep.
Yeah.
And it's spelled, it's the same.
It's St.
Martin, but isn't it spelled
differently, like the same island
spelled like depending on which part
of the island, island you're on.
Brandon Giella: I think the Dutch
side is what A, it's M-A-A-R-T-E-N.
It's like
Ian Andersen: Yeah, there's like a whole
ton of vowels in there for some odd
Brandon Giella: way too many.
Yeah, it was same thing with French.
Oh my gosh.
An hor d'oeuvre come on.
Kills me.
So, okay.
Anything else Rachel and Ian especially.
Anything else that I we should
have talked about maybe didn't,
that our listeners would really
love to know about this topic.
We have
Ian Andersen: I do have one.
I have one.
When pulling together some of
the resources and looking into to
this show something keeps popping
up about roughly 50% depending
on what study you're looking at.
50% of loyalty members aren't.
Very active and are
not using their points.
There's a ton depend, again, depending
on what study you look at literally
billions of dollars of unused
points in the airline reward space.
What are your thoughts?
Like, is that, I don't know, Jessica,
is that the user's problem for just
not following through, is that the
airlines aren't doing a good job
informing people how to use their points.
Something else that I'm not thinking of.
Jessica Steinberg: I think
it honestly goes back to the
different kind of traveler.
I know, you know, in my
past airline experience.
There are a lot of customers that,
yes, they have un use points, but
they're really low point values.
And so those are customers that
my guess would be, are completely
and totally price driven.
They go on Google Flights, the
cheapest flight, they book it,
that's it, they don't care.
They're probably not bringing a carry
on, and if they get the points, great,
if not, they're not even, they may
not even be logged in when they book.
And I think some of those
customers will just.
Always exist.
I don't know that you'll ever convince
them to, you know, to pay attention.
I have some family members like that.
They're like, points, what do you mean?
Versus me who's, you know, I've
got all the credit cards and I'm,
you know, doing the math to figure
out which one makes the most sense.
And so I think some of those
customers is just about different
behaviors and what they care about.
And for them, lowest price
is king no matter what.
That's how I view them.
Brandon Giella: that's really helpful.
I, despite what I said earlier, I'm
kind of a lowest price shopper, but I do
have, I've said this before, the American
Express Platinum got some points there.
I've got points on
American Airlines, big fan.
I live in DFW, so Americans right
there fly all over, but I don't
always know how to use the points.
I think Ian, to your point,
like, is that a user error?
It's definitely a user error.
I don't know what to do with them.
Sometimes I've got like
47,000 points or something.
I don't know what to do.
So, but maybe that's on
Ian Andersen: Yeah, the points always.
I have a United Chase card 'cause
I'm in and outta Chicago a lot,
so, but again, it's like you see
these abstract numbers of like a
hundred thousand points or whatever.
Or a hundred thousand miles.
That, that one always gets me.
I'm like, a hundred thousand miles.
I should be able to go around
the earth several times.
Right.
But I can't even get to Cleveland,
you know, like, it can be a
little confusing at times, so,
Brandon Giella: That's great.
Maybe you can get to St.
Martin if you combine cash and
points, you know you can get there.
Great.
Well guys, thanks so much.
Ian Andersen: Martin.
Brandon Giella: St.
Martin, St.
Al.
Yeah.
So thank you guys so much for joining.
As always, Jessica, thank you for
joining the show for the first time.
Appreciate your expertise, as always,
would love to have you back and talk
more about maybe some more marketing
trends as they're developing, and
ways that loyalty providers could
apply some, you know, maybe different
positioning or campaigns or headlines,
even if you get into that kind of stuff.
I like that kind of stuff sometimes.
But yeah, otherwise we will
see all of you on the next.
Episode, we'll see you then.
Thanks so much.
Jessica Steinberg: Awesome.
Thanks for having me.