070 | Morten Stengaard | Building a Premium Fruit Wine Category | Andersen Winery

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In episode 070, I chat with Morten Stengaard, Co-founder of Andersen Winery. We discuss the intricacies of creating a new category in the beverage industry, focusing on premium fruit wines.

Morten shares insights on category vs. brand building, the importance of positioning, and the role of premium pricing.

We explore market strategies ranging from fine dining establishments to off-trade venues, highlighting the nuances of consumer education and creating demand.

Morten emphasizes the significance of seasonality and portfolio approach in keeping products relevant and appealing to customers.

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction

01:02 Meet Morten Stengaard: Co-Founder of Andersen Winery

02:47 Building a New Beverage Category

08:14 Positioning Premium Fruit Wines

10:20 Targeting Specific Drinking Occasions

14:37 Expanding to Off-Trade Markets

26:44 Seasonality and Portfolio Approach

31:46 Conclusion

About The Host: Chris Maffeo

About The Guest: Morten Stengaard

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Morten Stengaard

Co-Founder | Bemakers

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Welcome to the Maffeo Drinks
podcast.

I'm your host, Chris Maffeo.
In episode 70, I chat with

Morton Stengart Co, founder of
Anderson Winery.

We discussed the intricacies of
creating a new category in the

beverage industry, focusing on
premium fruit wines.

Morton shares insights on
category versus brand building,

the importance of positioning,
and the role of premium pricing.

We explore market strategies
ranging from fine dining

establishment to off trade
venues, highlighting the nuances

of consumer education and
creating demand.

Morton emphasizes the
significance of seasonality and

portfolio approach in keeping
products relevant and appealing

to customers.
A small ask that means a lot to

me.
If you enjoy this podcast, take

the time to leave a review on
Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

You will find a detailed
transcription of this episode on

mafiadreams.com where it gets
pre released 24 hours before

other platforms.
Hi Malton, how are you doing?

Hey, Chris, I'm good.
How are you good?

Good, good, all sort of sun in
Prague.

So it's it's fine.
And we are on the one of the

longest days of the year now,
like up in the Nordics where you

are.
Yeah, here it's actually cloudy.

So you know, it's a long and
light day, but but with lots of

clouds.
Anyway, summer as we as we know

it.
Fantastic, it's great to have

you and it was a nice to meet
you, you know, over over

LinkedIn together with Maria and
have a few chat and and realize

that's, you know, there's
there's more and more like

minded people in this drinks eco
system.

So it's great to have you here.
Thank you and likewise great to

be here.
So Morton, like, give us a short

intro of what you do.
So just to get everybody on

board on why you're here and
what are we going to talk about

during this couple of episodes.
Yeah, sure.

A pleasure.
So my name is Morton Stengard.

I'm the Co founder and CEO of
the Bean Makers distribution or

beverage distribution platform.
And then previously I Co founded

a famous sparkling fruit wine
company called Anniston Winery

where I'm also now still Co
founder and and chairman.

Fantastic, so there there was a
quick one.

Like I'm used to Italians giving
an intro about themselves so I'm

impressed.
Thank you.

So fantastic.
So it's a it's, it's a shame I

haven't managed to get to know
Anderson Winery when I used to

live in Copenhagen, you know,
otherwise I would have enjoyed

some of your, some of your
wines.

Yeah, yeah.
But it's never too late.

Chris, I would ship IMPORTANCE
over to you in Prague.

Please, I would.
I would love to.

I would love to let's focus on
the on the first part of the of

the conversation.
So you as a founder of a of a

drinks brands, in this case a
wine brand.

And then we will dive more in
the second part of the episode.

We will, we will dive into B
makers because that builds a

nice bridge into helping brands
to go to market in different

export markets.
Let let me start.

I, I will skip the usual
question about does it start

with the liquid of the brand?
Because I, I want to dive into,

with you with in into another
topic that I really love, which

is building your own category.
Because I mean, like here we're

talking about something that not
many people will know outside of

the Nordic countries.
And you know, it's a very new

category also for me was like
very, very, very new.

I started to get to know it like
from my, you know, Nordic

friends.
But how do you build the

category before the brand, so to
say?

And I mean, would you agree
first of all like that, you

know, you should first build the
category and then the brand or

are you more on to, you know,
brand building 1st and then

category?
Well, that's a really good

question.
So, so the way I think about it

is that you need to identify the
category that you want to play

in.
It's easier to start at

thinking, OK, is there a
specific need or an opportunity

that just hasn't been realized
yet.

And for Annalson Winery, my
sparkling fruit wine brand, I

mean, we saw an opportunity in
fruit wine.

And fruit wine, as you probably
know, Chris is usually perceived

as low quality.
No one has really built a

premium high quality fruit wine
brand.

You could say the premium fruit
wine category really didn't

exist when we started building
and it was always considered low

quality compared to grape wines.
And similarly another thing we

have, we have a ready supply of
of high quality fruits and

berries in the Nordics.
Grapes don't work that well here

in the Nordics.
We don't have enough sun, but we

have a ready supply of barriers
of fruits.

So apples, blackcurrant,
rhubarb, which is actually a

vegetable and so on.
And that you can easily in

principle ferment and make great
products out of.

So here you basically have a
region where grapevines is less

easy to do.
There are some wineries here in

Denmark also doing grapevines
and doing good ones,

particularly white wines.
But the grapes are usually

difficult to grow because of the
weather.

But we have already supply as a
set of other sorts of berries

and so on.
And when you combine that with

the fact that grapevines have
been produced all over the world

for centuries.
So the methodology is well

developed.
We have a metal tad of Chanel

when you do Cavas, when you do
Champagnes and so on.

But no one has really used that
on fruits and berries.

But it's when you think about
it's, it's, it's an easy thing

to do.
You have a proven methodology.

You have raw materials that are
different.

And when you combine the two,
you should be able to build

something that's unique,
something that's new and

something that's of high
quality.

That's basically how I think
about category building.

You need to combine things to
build something new.

And, and one more thing maybe
worth mention is that the Nordic

kitchen, I mean, it's famous.
We have the Norma, we have

Uranium, we have some of the
world's best restaurants and

most innovative new restaurants.
And it just felt natural to

build something on the drink
side or on the beverage side

also out of naughty raw
materials.

So, you know, so to come back to
your question, I think very much

of category building as
something that comes before the

brand building in order for you
to establish your position as a

brand as the next step, if that
makes sense.

Wow, there's a, there's a lot of
interesting information and,

and, and insights there because
I mean, I, I love, I love the

fact that, you know, you are
taking something that is very

local, you know, and the fact
that, you know, obviously it's,

it's natural to think about
fruits and, and berries in a

climate where grapes are not
really working.

Let's say, like if we, if we
take it as a, as a standard now,

like of course there are some
nice Nordic wineries doing wine,

but you know, grape wine.
But then if you take all the

fruits and, and rhubarb as a, as
a vegetable like that, that you

have there, it's very
interesting to create, to manage

to create something local that
that is missing in the, in the

scene.
And also like, I love the fact

that, you know, you're
mentioning and we will dive

deeper into the food
accompaniment because like, you

know, with the New Nordic
cuisine manifesto and the new

Nordic trends and so on, that
there was probably like a lack

of something local.
Because then, you know, like you

have all this super nice
ingredients from the food side

of things.
And then you will drinking like

a white wine from France or
Italy, which doesn't really make

sense if you think broadly
about, you know, what Nordic

cuisine manifestos mentions and
stands for now.

It's very interesting.
And you meant, you mentioned

another point that like how to
override the the, the perception

of low quality into creating
something that probably

automatically people would think
of, OK, like I know a fruit

juice, you know, I know I have
fruit concentrate or

eccentrifugate, but you know, I
don't know anything about wine.

So then, you know, there is a
bit of work to be done in into

that.
How did you position your brand

to manage to work on the
premiumness of the the premium

aspect of your wines?
So as I said, the fruit wines

are generally perceived as low
quality.

With low quality obviously comes
a low price.

So what we did to circumvent
that was to try to position it

next to a traditional or next to
a champagne, a standard

champagne.
So price wise we wanted to not

to compete with the Cavas and
the Prosecos and the sect from

Germany which are generally
lower priced in the Nordics than

the Champagne.
So we wanted to compete with the

Champagnes and we decided
deliberately to price our

products as a standard
champagne.

So in Germany and France
etcetera, they are priced at

around €30 per bottle.
So obviously with a high price

comes high expectation for
quality and for the balance in

the wine and so on.
And that's then what we worked

on meeting.
But I think it's important

especially when you're building
a new category that you think

hard about, you know, how do you
want to position?

Is it a low price product that's
supposed to be available in

retail?
Then you're competing usually at

some other price levels compared
to if you're going into bars and

to wine shops, bottle shops here
in the Nordics, then you can

usually position it higher price
wise.

So the first thing to think
about there was basically price.

And when you have that ironed
out, then it's all about having

consumers and your potential
customers try the products

because no one, as in absolutely
no one would go out and buy a

sparkling blackcurrant wine if
they have at €30.

If they haven't tried it or if
they haven't somewhat

experienced it before.
That's then where the top

restaurants, for example, come
into the picture.

I mean, if you can position the
product, if you get it into some

great restaurants and so on,
then obviously that helped.

But the first thing was really
to change the perception of

Fruit Line from being low
quality, low price to high

quality, high price.
Being a new category, what did

you think about the drinking
occasion?

Like did you, did you have a
specific drinking occasion in

mind that you were catering?
Because I mean you're mentioning

the top restaurants there in, in
Copenhagen and and Denmark to

start from.
Was that also the vehicle to

say, OK, this is how you consume
the products?

Yeah, Yeah.
Good question.

So what we did was we tried to
involve some of the better

restaurants, Michelin star
restaurants in the process. 1st,

we were producing sparkling dry
wines for some based on apple

and they were supposed to
compete directly with champagne.

So you know, you could have it
when you come into the

restaurant, you have a drink, a
champagne, or you could have a

sparkling apple wine from
Anastan Winery.

That was the starting point and
what we started doing.

And we started visiting
restaurants, booking meetings

with the restaurants, have them
taste the product.

And that works in some
restaurants.

But we also quickly saw that a
lot of the restaurants were

looking for a, a low alcohol, no
elk sparkling.

So if they have a group of
people, 4-6 people coming in and

one is not drinking alcohol and
then suddenly they need

something without alcohol or
with low alcohol to to that

person for everyone else is
getting a glass of champagne,

but they needed something, an
alternative.

So we started working on a low
alk product based on apple but

with lots of fruitiness, some
more sweetness to basically

balance the acidity and and so
on.

So to produce an interesting
alternative to a champagne with

the small fine bubbles as you
know it from champagnes and

carvers and so on, but with the
only 2% alcohol.

So basically catering to that
exact situation where someone is

not drinking alcohol, but he she
still wants to go to a

restaurant and have an awesome
experience.

So that was a clear need in the
restaurants to to have something

with the low and low alcohol
that they could sell to their

customers.
Another great angle in so we're

doing sparkling dessert wines
based on blackcurrant, red

currant, cherries, etcetera.
And here the way in was

basically to introduce something
for the dessert that was the

light and uplifting with lots of
bubbles, great acidity, but also

with the sweetness that that is
necessary for matching it with

the dessert.
And what we learned from working

with the summaries in in the
restaurants is that you need you

need lots of acidity if you want
to add lots of the sweetness to

a wine for it to be balanced.
And that's usually the challenge

with the Grapevine that if you
add too much sweetness in the

dosage in the sparkling wine,
then you don't have enough

acidity for it to be balanced.
But when you're working with the

berries out of the Nordics, you
have like an insane amount of

acidity.
So you can add add a lot more

sugar in the sauce and produce
wines that are perfectly

balanced but with lots of
sweetness so that they can

easily work with the even the
very sweet dessert.

And this was something to come
back to your question about the

occasion.
This was something that the

restaurants really didn't have
before and where they could

easily see that.
They could take something that

was light with bubbles and so on
and add it to a dessert.

And then instead of using the
the wine or whatever they would

come up with, they could now
have something that was Nordic,

something that was refreshing as
sparkling.

Wow, wow, that is super
interesting and and what role

did it play like having
consumptions occasions also,

let's say for off trade.
This is like what what I love

about what you said is the is
the clear occasion on menting

Peresku, you know, like you
know, different kind of wines

for different kind of occasions.
So one or catering, you know,

like the apperative moment or
the starting of the the evening

and some others on the end of
the evening.

And also I love the fact that
you were targeting like a clear

problem of a clear customer.
No, like, so it's, it's very

interesting because some people
would say, OK, it's too niche,

you know, but then I'm a big fan
of bringing the niche at scale

because then, you know, when you
multiply all the people with

that specific problem, then
you're pretty straightforward

into the OK, like I
automatically think of that wine

for that solution, No.
Yeah, so.

How how did you bring that to an
off trade context or one, one of

the things that I'm often
talking about is what I call the

bottom up trade.
And also like you know, there is

that element of on trade, but
then sometimes we tend to forget

the bottle shops and you know
like the stuff that you

mentioned earlier on into a home
consumption kind of kind of

occasion.
Yeah, that's really important,

especially in the market like
the the latest one where we are

headquartered or located.
I mean there's hundreds of

smaller wine shops here in
Denmark and that's where

consumers often buy their wines
and spirits and so on.

So you have the retailers of
course, but you have all these

hundreds of wine shop and it's
super important to be in those

when you are a premium brand
like Anniston Winery.

And then the trick is really to
educate the people owning the

wine shop and the people in the
shop about how to use this one.

And we use a lot of social
media, of course, as as everyone

else.
But then we make sure to show

how you can pair our wines with
the food.

So for example, take our
sparkling blackcurrant, which is

a sweet dessert wine, lots of
facility but made for desserts.

And then we prepare recipes on
our website and in our social

media and in the small brochures
that we can give out to the wine

shop so that they can give it
out to their customers together

with a bottle of wine.
So that a consumer clearly knows

that this sparkling black
currant, as an example, can be

used with a chocolate cake, for
example.

And then as soon as you say, you
know, imagine using this with a

chocolate cake, then then most
consumers start thinking about,

OK, yeah, I'm actually having,
you know, guests coming over.

It would be nice to make a nice
chocolate cake or something with

vanilla and so on.
And then you can easily pair it

with the fruit wine, like, like
blackcurrant or red currant or

cherry or Raspberry or whatever.
It's very important when you

build a category.
And when you build it, you say

almost like the first brand in a
category that you think hard

about how to position it to not
only the sommeliers or the

bartenders, if if you're working
with spirit, but also in off

trade and especially how the off
trade segment can position it to

their consumers or to their
buyers.

Because ultimately, when you
think about a, a sparkling wine

or sparkling fruit wine, no one
really opens and drinks a bottle

of sparkling fruit wine by
themselves.

I mean, it's very rare.
So it's always for some occasion

where they're sharing it with
friends.

They are, you know, inviting
people over to their home and

have a drink as a starter, as a
dessert, what have you.

But then you need to make sure
that you make the buyer shine

when he or she is having
visitors over.

Then he needs to know how to
position it, how to use it

together with food, all as part
of a drink.

And then it's super important
that they know the story, not

just about the bottle, but also,
you know, why is this?

I mean, we always say that we
produce world class sparkling

fruit lines out of the Nordic
and we spend a lot of time on

explaining why, why these are
world class.

As we say, you know how it's
using the local fruits and

berries only?
Everything is grown in Denmark.

We even on the backside of the
bottle, have the coordinates of

the fields that the vegetables
or the fruits and berries were

grown on so that you can zoom in
and in your Google Maps you can

see, OK, it was exactly this
field here in Denmark that it

was grown, you know, So all
these little things just makes

it much more interesting for the
customer and much more easy to

succeed with the product.
Wow, wow, very interesting.

What I like about what I'm
hearing is that, you know, there

is this element that you think
about with consumer because like

if we go back to this, you know,
fine dining scene, let's say

that in Copenhagen, probably
it's one of the highest

concentration of like fine
dining or innovative fine

dining, I'll say.
But then of course, like there

would be more people than in
other countries probably.

But still it's quite limited
because you need to get a table

for.
So like that's probably like a

long line, you know, that's we
need to be able to afford it,

but you also need to be able to
manage to get a table there.

But that would be your perfect
arena to get the liquid on lips

because then it would be OK a
glass versus a bottle.

And then brings to the other
problem, which is as you

mentioned, you know, nobody's
going to easily buy that third

EUR bottle of fruit wine because
it could be perceived as a big

of a risk.
No.

So you, when you communicate
that, then I like what you

mentioned about, you know, like
giving some ammunitions to that

shopper or drinker because they
have to be rewarded for that

leap of faith that, you know,
they gave, you know, and then

it's like, you know, OK, we want
to give some support to this

local winery.
So now, like, I also want to

look good in front of my
friends, you know, coming over.

And I want to be able to answer
in a short and simple manner to

the questions that people may
have because they can imagine

the scene of, you know,
everybody grabbing this bottle

and trying to go into the back
label and, and understanding

more.
And that is the key part of your

building demand now, because
that those are the key people

that then will become advocate.
Because if you have 10 people

over for that chocolate cake on
a birthday, then they may become

ten people that actually may go
and buy in other store or next

time they they finally go to a
nice restaurant and they say,

oh, actually, you know, it fits
perfectly because on.

Tuesday night I'm actually going
to Geranium or to normal or

whatever and you know, and I'm
going to look for that.

Why?
So that creates the nice loop of

iteration, building the demand
and converting the demand at the

same time.
Because then that those people

may actually act as ambassador
to the, you know, to the waiter

and the owner of that
restaurant.

Because they may ask about under
the winery and maybe you're not

stocked there yet.
But all of a sudden then, you

know, they will think, OK, there
was this consumer that actually

asked for this wine.
So let me check what it is you

know.
Absolutely.

It's very nice because it builds
on something that I always talk

about, which is this continuous
iteration.

I used to think selectively
about, you know, hunting and

farming when going to find bars
and restaurant to sell products.

But then I realized that it's a
circle of hunting, farming

together, you know, a building
demand, converting demand.

But that conversion brings back
to building, and then it goes to

sustaining, and then it's a
loop.

It's a virtuous circle if you do
it the right way now.

Yeah.
Good.

Point.
So how did you manage to bring

the, let's say that the second
layer into the game now?

Because then if you look at fine
dining, then there's the home

consumption, which is, you know,
certain kind of people in that

spectrum.
And then you want to maximize, I

would assume the possibility of
liquid on lips into a wider

level of of outlets.
That may not be fine dining

because otherwise then a lot of
the people will get cut out from

the liquid on lips part, no?
Yeah, absolutely.

That's an important point.
The way we used to all used to

go into entree.
It was starting with the fine

dining, the the Michelin star
restaurants and we still serve

those and work with those.
And that's a an important part

of our story.
But the volume is clearly in the

in the restaurants.
You could say in the sense that

they are, they are exactly as
you say, Chris.

They are the restaurants where
people come and they would come

again and again and again.
And they also often the

restaurants where they have wine
menu.

Whether you get the four dishes
and then you get a wine for each

dish.
And if you can then get your

say, sparkling fruit wine in as
a, as the wine that's used with

the dessert, then you have, you
know, first of all, you drive

the volume, but you also ensure
that a lot of people try your

wine in the perfect setting with
the perfect fruit pairing, which

is obviously, you know,
enormously important that here

there's actually chefs and some
of these that have paired it

perfectly with something.
It could be a chocolate cake, it

could be a different dessert.
It could also be one of the

drier wines that they've been
used for, for a starter or, or

even for meatballs.
And but there's a, there's some

professionals here that have
actually made great effort to

serve the wine in the perfect
setting.

And that's so important because
then when you have a fairly wide

portfolio as we have at
Anniston, we have 1215 different

wines, then there's a high
likelihood that the consumers

have a good time and enjoy the
wine and that they'll then go

out and want to try one of the
other wines or try the same wine

again in a different setting.
So the high end miscellaneous

restaurants serve basically as a
as an entry point and for

building trust because if the
wine is at Geranium, for

example, most other summaries
wouldn't hesitate to also try

it.
If you call them and say, hey,

it's Martin here from the Amazon
winery, you know, would you like

to try our wine?
We'll serve that boom, boom,

boom, boom, boom.
Oh, yeah, OK, that sounds

interesting.
You know, I'll find time for

you.
OK, thank you.

So it's also a door opener for
all the other restaurants and

clearly the Michelin segment in
general.

They are the restaurants are
usually curious.

So if you come with something
that's of interest to them and

can help them serve their
customer, then they're usually

quite open to to try out new
things, at least that's what we

have experienced.
And then when you go to the

restaurants with a broader peel,
then it's important to have

those references to help open
the door.

And then that's where you you
find a greater volume because

you're absolutely right.
I mean, you don't come to

Geranium or other Michelin style
restaurants every day or most of

us don't.
And so it's important to be

where the people are because
that they can then serve as

ambassadors to to their friends
and so on and tell about the

head with the lines.
Yeah, because I was thinking

like when you were talking that
the Michelin star or the top

restaurants, they they play a
big role in the, let's say in

the light buyers now because
that they will have a lot of

selection.
You know, it's very rare that

places they don't really have
regulars now in to an to an

extent, you know, like there's a
lot of rotation of light buyers

that manage to get the table.
They find it that they they have

it, then they may go back to it,
but you know, how often will

they go back to that place now?
So you need to make an

impression because that's your
chance to make the first

impression with them, which
happens to everybody anyway.

But then like you want to have
a, a scaled distribution, you

know, and let's say penetration
in the trade so that then if

they go, you know, maybe they
went to, to that geranium like

once in their lifetime, then
they liked it.

And then you, you want them to
know where to find it in a

boutique wine shop or into a
more regular neighbourhood

restaurant that, you know, they
may go on a random Thursday

night to replicate that in a
more relaxed set up.

You know, that would be, you
know, a different kind of meal.

Yeah, exactly.
And building on this, because

you mentioned about the, the,
the, the pairing, you know,

which of course is the, the, the
key thing in this kind of like

fine dining restaurant.
So do you have a specific SKU, a

specific wine that acts, let's
say, has a foot in the door into

these venues?
Or do you have a more kind of

like a portfolio approach that
you know you go and and have a a

wider selection of all the range
of wines to supply different

needs?
So we use more of a portfolio

approach.
It's almost like we've divided

the wines into a spring
collection, if you will, and a

fall collection.
Some of the wines work better in

fall when it's getting darker,
then you would have a tendency

to drink some of the dark Berry
wines and so on.

Whereas when it comes to spring,
then the rhubarb for example,

it's a Roset style wine, it's
perfect for spring.

Summer is coming and it's it's
perfect on the terrace and so

on.
So we've tried to actually

divide it into two different
collections, which is inspired

from the fashion industry and
probably not something you see

very much in the in the drinks
industry.

But I can highly recommend it
that you think about seasonality

also because it gives you a good
reason for coming back to your

customer and say, hey, Chris,
how's it going in your great

restaurant?
You know, we have our all the

wines coming out in in a month's
time.

I would like to visit.
Oh, OK, sounds great.

You know, come by then.
There's something new to talk

about and there's something new
that the sommeliers can use for

their upcoming wine menu.
And you have a much higher

likelihood than for for staying
relevant.

If you can come with something
where you've already thought

about, OK, this here will
actually work great for a fall

menu where you're usually using
this and this and that.

That has been an important
vehicle for us to to continue to

stay relevant with the
restaurants.

That's very interesting because
you naturally think about it

this way, you know, because
usually there is no focus on

seasonality.
So I really love to think about

this way because it's in line
with that trend of being

relevant to that particular
scene now, because it's all

about, you know, like the new
Nordic cuisine, It's all about,

you know, like getting what you
managed to get, you know, in the

different seasons and you know,
trying to limit how much you

have to rely on imported foods
from overseas.

Like it makes it very
complementary to the food scene,

which is a very important for me
in terms of target occasion,

drinking occasion, you know,
because when, when you have

historical categories, then they
all go back to the historical

usage of that products.
No, But then when you have a new

category, there is no history to
play with.

You know, there is no
traditional Danish meal that

goes with sparkling fruit wine
because in the history you don't

actually have it.
So it's you need to create that.

And I love that.
Yeah.

And just to to add to that, I
think many brands can benefit

from thinking about how they can
create even some small batches.

So if you're doing different
spirits, can you somehow create

a small batch that would work
well for fall or for spring?

And again, to give you a reason
to to get back to your customers

and show them something new
because no one really enjoys

that you're coming back with the
same thing.

They know it already.
They want something new.

They want to see that you are
constantly developing and coming

up with the new exciting
product.

So any beverage brand I think
can benefit from working this

way.
And it doesn't have to be a

whole new product that'll be
there for the next 20 years.

It can just be a one off small
batch thing you do and then it

never come back.
But you have something that can

serve on a menu somewhere in the
world and then it never comes

back again, or maybe it comes
back eight years after because

you decide that hey, now, let's
take it up again.

And that whole innovative
thinking and constantly thinking

about how you can make new
products, that's really one of

the things that have benefited
us in Anniston Winery and

allowed us to stay relevant for
the customer.

You know, it's also this element
of, you know, you're targeting

people that are naturally
inclined to try different things

because you know, like they
cannot marry one brand because

you know, their brand is their
restaurant.

And it's, you know, it's like if
you went to fine dining and you

always found cod, you know, like
if the even if the chef loves

it, you know, like they cannot
always have the same food and at

the same time, they also cannot
have always the same wine.

You need to create this
relevance while building the

presence into the venue so that
you can actually rotate.

Then of course, it creates a lot
of complexity, I would assume.

But at the same time, you know,
even if you do, especially if

you do this more batches, then
you create this aura, the kind

of like formal effect that helps
in creating the demand.

So let me ask you another
question, you know, because what

what I see and what I hear is
that, you know, there is a lot

of legwork to manage this.
Now it's very tailored to hand

picking outlets that will be
relevant, you know, like it's

not a regular category as we
discussed, which leads to the

other hats that you have with
the makers.

You know, what were the
challenges of in distribution in

in actually finding the right
partner to approach these guys?

That's all for today.
Remember that this is a two-part

episode 70 and 71.
Feel free to listen to both.

One last thing, if you enjoyed
this podcast, please leave a

review, share it with friends
and remember that brands are

built bottom U.