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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Liron: Welcome to Chasing The Game
This was a very special one for me, Matt.
I know I always say that, but bear with me on this one.
This one is gonna be a little longer…
So in 1999 I was in Washington, DC,
and I was filming a documentary about my uncle
I think I told you about him as an artist, a well known DC artist.
And he was obsessed with soccer.
He had a satellite dish specifically to watch
international games and which was like a sensation at the time.
And we talk about access,
It didn't exist.
he used to have these lavish dinners, politicians, or whatever, but one of his
obsessions was DC United, and we had DC United players
coming in and out, and I remember Ben Olsen being one of them.
and, boy, what a place it was.
It was a circle of art, soccer, old mix the old
mix together in was, you know, DC community.
At the same time, my cousin, my uncle's son,
This is your cousin's uncle's son's brother?
He's my cousin.
Look I'm doing soccer not tree of life.
He was playing an Olympic development program one
of those top tracks before MLS Next and all the nonsense that exists today.
And soccer was all the talk.
But I was always kind of, I don't know, I was always skeptical because I came from another
country and I was like, ah, you know nothing about Soccer.
And I remember we were shooting a scene from my uncle for
documentary and it was an RFK Stadium.
And at the time, RFK Stadium, I think that was hosting DC United, that was their own
Home field.
And the lower bowl,
like the lower part of the stadium was packed, because they only
gave one level to to the DC United fans,
the rest, I think, was closed off because they couldn't fill RFK for MLS games.
But the place was alive.
And I remember just walking around that field and thinking for the
first time, there's going to be a professional soccer league in the U.S. and it was happening.
I was there, and it was just the beginning of it.
I couldn't have imagined that 25 years later, I'd be sitting down with the same guy,
Ben Olsen.
And, you know, he's he's gone to DC United,
US National Team, England.
We're going to talk all about that.
Now he's a coach, and most importantly is he
said, he's a dad in the academy world.
And I'm here with my own kid, Chasing the Game, Dream, full circle.
Matt: Yeah, I mean, I have memories of watching Ben as a
player as well., and I think he brought that same intensity that he was famous
for into our conversation.
I think after talking with him, you could see that come full circle even more so.
I mean, Ben's story really reflected the evolution of the game in this country.
And from those early MLS nights
at RFK Stadium to what youth soccer has become today.
And Ben's had a large, large impressionnt on
the success of soccer in this country.
He's truly lived every layer of it.
Player, captain, coach, and as you said, now parent to
three kids who were playing youth soccer.
He came through the old American system, helped shape the modern one,
and still talked about the same values that started at all.
Resilience, creativity, and the love of the game.
Let's get into it.
So welcome to the, to the podcast
Ben: It's good to be here guys.
Thanks for having me all.
I'm looking forward to this.
Liron: Now what's this project
is about, think about this as a
series to, to untangle the Maze of
Youth Soccer in the United States.
longevity.
Ben: I'm not gonna be
able to help you that
Liron: Whoa.
Hey, hey,
Ben: we'll see.
Liron: hey.
I think you'll be okay, but
this is what we are going after.
And in a way, we we're, we don't
have an agenda in a sense, but
we're trying to guide other parents,
older kids, young coaches, to
kind of see what the map is about.
People came through it, through
the system, people are starting.
So any word of guidance as we kind
of build this platform along would,
would just mean a million to, to
everyone that's gonna listen to this.
Ben: my, my son's 14 and he plays for
the Houston Academy, so I'm going through
this as a dad for the first time too,
so I'm sure we'll get to that later.
Liron: I mean, obviously we want
to talk about you and everything
you've done, but you being a dad
is really the, the, the key here.
it's not just a soccer.
Matt: Yeah.
And, and I, and I think, we realize that,
you know, you've had this incredible
career as a player at UVA and then playing
at MLS and going to Nottingham Forest,
and we'll try to touch on all of that.
And obviously coaching for two
franchises, MLS, and we're not
going to have you weigh in as an
expert on youth soccer here at all.
But I think just talking about your
journey and then what you're seeing from
young players today vis-a-vis 15 years
ago when you first started coaching.
I think that's what
we're trying to get to.
Ben: to this.
Liron: Okay, so Matt, you can kick
Matt: Yeah.
It's a pleasure to have you, Ben.
take us back to the eighties and nineties.
Growing up in Pennsylvania, I
believe you played for FC Delco,
still an incredible club today.
What did the soccer scene
look like without having.
Premier League on TV every
day, MLS with an Apple deal.
just the access was so limited.
Where did you find your inspiration?
What did it look like?
Ben: zero exposure to the game.
I was in a, grew up in a
small town called Middletown,
Pennsylvania, three Mile Island.
The nuclear power plant was there.
This was a football, baseball,
basketball town, and soccer.
A a club popped up, a small local
club, as it did in a lot of places
in the, you know, early eighties.
my brother started playing.
He was really good at it.
He, we were kind of smaller in nature
as human beings and soccer seemed to
fit, so I was the product of having an
older brother that went through a local
club and was one of the better players.
So he was, you know,
playing in the backyard.
the love of the game started and,
again, he was bigger, faster,
stronger, and I was competitive and
I was a, you know, bit of a punk.
So it was, it was just the drive to
beat him every day in the backyard.
that really kind of, I guess pushed me
to, you know, excel in this game and, and
to continue to follow in his footsteps.
But I also was a product of growing up
playing tennis, and I was a product of
playing baseball and, tackle football.
Everything that this town offered you
just played and it was seasonal and
you consistently were just playing a,
a sport, but it wasn't just soccer.
and I really am thankful for
that because I know that's a
really rare thing nowadays.
Even through my high school days,
I played basketball, tennis,
and soccer in high school.
as I was playing for,
as you said, FC Delco.
And so, you know, I was a, a product
of the ODP system, which I know
I. You know, for whatever it's
worth, it really worked for me.
You know, that's, for those that don't
know, that's the kind of basically
select teams and then you grow to
be the best of Pennsylvania and then
you get to be the best in your region
on the northeast for my purposes.
And then the four regions get together
and then they select the national team.
And that's pretty basic.
And, it was a simple system.
It left a lot of people out,
because there was a, a certain.
Lane that you had to be in.
I think we're in a better
place now of finding talent.
But yeah, that was, that was it.
But even while I was doing
that, I was playing on the
high school basketball team.
I was playing tournament tennis as a kid.
which, you know, I, I
always am thankful for that.
I had that exposure where I had a mental,
an individual mental sport to grow up with
where I had to reset after every point,
every game, every set where that mental
toughness as a child, I really, I think
I drew on that, those experiences well.
So, you know, the special specialization,
now I understand it and keeping up with
the Joneses and, and what the demands
are from the coaches and the clubs.
But I am so thankful I grew up,
when I grew up and, and had these,
all these different experiences
from a sports standpoint, I.
Liron: This, this is the, the point you
touch on that, that's a very interesting
one because I, I grew up in a, in a
country where soccer was everything.
So you kind of played in the,
in the yard and then the good
players went to play at academies.
And then I, you come here and there's kind
of a pay to pay, play, pay to play system.
So almost everybody gets to play.
But I look at it now from the side,
I said, well, I'm not even sure most
of those kids even love the game.
So in a way, how do you end up in
a, in a country where soccer is
not the most popular sport, do you
feel, are you kind of a, a secondary
rate athlete that end up there?
Is it the, the, how does, how
does it actually transpire?
I'm, I'm so curious.
Ben: I just started to excel in it.
You know, I, I loved basketball, I
loved tennis, I loved anything that,
yeah, I played baseball growing up.
I, anything that involved
a ball I loved, it was just
sport, was, I really resonated.
Soccer just started, I was starting
to separate myself within soccer.
I was like, whoa, I'm
scoring a lot of goals.
I'm just a lot better than
all these other players.
And then I started to get noticed
regionally and then, oh wait, I was
offered to be one of the best players
in Pennsylvania to the state team.
And then next thing I know, I'm traveling
when I'm, you know, 14 years old.
I'm traveling three,
sometimes four times a week.
To Philadelphia.
That's a two, two and a
half hour drive both ways.
My mother and father took me three,
four times week to Philadelphia.
Once they saw that this is, I was
excelling at it and that I loved it.
So I give them a lot of credit.
I, I'm not sure I'd do that to my son.
I I don't you, you don't have to do that.
You don't have to do that nowadays.
Right.
There's usually there's better
quality, shorter distance, but
back then you had to travel.
If I wanted to play with the
best, I was going to Philly, I was
going to the outskirts there where
soccer was less small town, right?
less in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
It wasn't as evolved.
So that was where the best coaches is.
That was where the best competition is.
So, that was kind of where soccer started
to separate from basketball and some of
these other sports, and I stopped growing.
Matt: Hey, Ben, I'm, I'm curious,
you talked about specialization,
and it's not just in soccer, it's in
every sport in this country, and to
some degree it's in other countries,
but there aren't as many sports.
Is it?
Is it ultimately beneficial?
Like are there gonna be enough kids?
And Liron and I have
looked at the numbers.
I mean, even if you look at the success
of American players playing in Europe,
I think there's 34 or 35 playing
in top five leagues at this stage.
And you think about how much focus and
how much specialization there is in
the game, not just in soccer, right?
It's very much in baseball, it's
in hockey, it's in basketball.
And the number of kids who are
becoming professionals is increasing
as far as in this country.
'cause we have a league, right?
And 25 years ago we didn't have a league
who benefits from this in the end.
Like, I mean, that's part of
our reason for tackling this.
Ben: Well, here, here, I'll
throw this back at you.
messy, specialized.
Right.
Like, you know, everyone in South America
is specializing that, that ends up making
it, they're not playing basketball.
Some okay.
But Europe, as you said, you know,
Europe has been specializing in this
way for, for a very, very long time.
You know, they're getting academy
kids at 1314 and developing these
kids in a, in a lane of, yes.
Okay.
They're developing the, the person
and, but they're really trying
to develop pros to benefit that.
So I don't know.
I don't have, I don't have that answer.
I don't have because other places
are doing it and they seem to
still producing world class talent.
And they're also mentally tough.
They're, they're, so I think it's
within the specialization, how you go
about that is the real question, right?
I think specialization,
specialization is here to stay.
It's not going anywhere.
I know some people are like, oh,
let your kids play all sports.
Yeah, it worked for me.
But nowadays it's like, good luck.
Good luck doing that.
And then what environment are
you in that is specializing?
and is, is that the
right one for your child?
And, it's not for everybody.
It's a commitment.
It's a, it's a real,
real, real commitment.
That's why I go back to 'em.
I'm just so thankful that I had all
these other experiences and I had,
was put in situations because of that.
Where, you know, all summer, instead
of playing soccer, I was playing
against adults down in the, basketball,
you know, playing against people,
grown ass men trying to take my head
off, down at the, at the courts.
So there's a certain survival when,
but maybe in certain countries, kids
are getting that, that freedom and
that, blacktop type with soccer in
South America against adults, and
they're put in those situations too.
But I really value that.
I really value those, those experiences,
to, to make me, to, don't know,
Matt: Yeah.
No, that's great.
Yeah.
Ben: maybe we're missing
a little bit of that.
Matt: Speaking of experiences,
I believe you're the national
player of the year in high school.
Went on to University of Virginia, won
the Herman Award as the player of the
year at University of Virginia as well.
Can you talk a little bit about that path?
So high school to college, which
back then was the path, right?
how did that shape you?
The experience of playing at University
of Virginia, highly competitive,
national powerhouse, and then
moving into the pros for DC United,
Ben: I made a lot of good choices,
I believe, looking back and that
was probably the first one that
allowed me to be here today and.
They had just come off of four
national championships, UVA, the
coach was somebody I resonated with.
I had some, time with the regional team.
He was a coach when I
was, I think junior year.
I got some exposure to him.
Matt: this was Bruce, right?
Ben: knew Serena, sorry.
And I knew that thought he was
the right guy from the get go.
But I went through the whole process.
went to Duke, I went to Harvard,
I went to, Rutgers, Maryland.
And, you know, was, I was courted,
you know, it was, it was a wild time.
Not courted like they are today, but
courted meeting, you know, they bought
you dinner and, you know, got you drunk.
Matt: No, no, no.
NIL deals.
Ben: No, NIL deals.
Nothing on the table there.
But it was, it was a wild time and it
came down to really, the environment that
I saw at UVA from a soccer standpoint.
It was a great school, not that was part
of it, but they were all great schools.
it was really the environment in the
coach, soccer environment and the
coach that, pushed me to, to go there.
I was like, why not play with the best?
Why not push myself and get on the best
team possible with the best players?
And I didn't even think in that moment
that I was gonna be a professional player.
There was no league
when I went to college.
So after I was there for about a year,
then the league started to creep in,
and then it started to be like, whoa,
maybe I can be a professional player.
but that was a, that was a really, that
wasn't even on my radar when I went
to UVA to play professional soccer.
Liron: But today when you see young
American players, especially coming
from, let's say, your team or your
academies, they're coming, they're
not going to college, they're going
straight from academy to, or do you see a
Ben: of them, most of 'em
are go going to college.
yeah, I think it's very rare.
If you look at our 15 sixteens, you know,
17 eighteens, they are, You know, some
of 'em are going to the D two, right?
second team that most, most all, all
the clubs in the MLS have some type
of kind of farm system going on now.
So they're either going there, yeah,
next pro or they're, occasionally they're
coming to the big boys and, but it's rare.
It's rare, you know, maybe one a year.
And you look at that, how many kids
are playing for the eighteens and the
seventeens and sixteens, and one a
year is, is graduating in that way.
Maybe, maybe one every two years.
And then a lot of times they're being
signed and they're not being put
on the field as well because of the
money that's being pushed into MLS.
take attackers for instance.
You're competing with 5 million,
$6 million players all across
the front, the front four.
Oh, it's, you know, it's, it's a tricky,
it's a tricky place to, to go into.
So, I, I know at The Dynamo
we really pride ourselves on
kids that go through this.
We really push the educational side and
make sure they're ready to go to college.
If, that option of, of pro
soccer isn't there for 'em,
and that doesn't mean it ends.
We still live in a country
where you can go to college
and then come back to the pros.
We have a kid at, at,
center back at Georgetown.
That wasn't time to sign him.
He wanted to go to
Georgetown, check out college.
So we're keeping tabs on him
and seeing how he's, he's doing,
to potentially bring back.
So this is all there, there's
different pathways for every, every
journey and, and we're, the league
is still, college is still relevant.
College soccer is still relevant.
Every year.
We, there's a few guys in the
league that play and surprise
people and, and do very well.
Liron: Yeah, there's a lot more Europeans
now in the American college system too.
I
Ben: They've had to, the
best ones are getting pulled.
So now you look at all these, foreign
players in college soccer to kind of fill
that void, and these are kids, right,
that are in Europe and they're doing well
and they realize their future is not pro.
So they're going now to shit,
I better get this education.
'cause they tell 'em a
little bit earlier in Europe.
So they go to college and then
all of a sudden, like, whoa,
a few of them are good enough.
And some of them come
to the league as well.
So it's an interesting pathway that
the European players have as well.
Liron: Yeah, I mean, I want to pivot a
little bit, just so, 'cause I'm, I kind of
think about our target audience in a way.
Part of being an athlete is getting
injured, getting through adversity.
I mean, I know, I mean, your
career is, is an open book.
if, if you had to kind of look back,
give some a boilerplate advice or
about adversities as an athlete.
How would you kind of approach that today?
You have a son, you have to, to talk
to him about, about development,
how, how would you approach that?
Ben: It's a good question.
resiliency and, is critical in
this whole deal, if you really
wanna be an elite athlete.
'cause it's, it's coming life in general.
It's coming, right.
Liron: Wow.
Ben: Whether, whether it is coming.
I had, I. I ended up, yeah, it's coming.
It's coming.
It's, it's inevitable.
It's coming.
So, you know, how you deal with that
and how your process is something.
I think it has to be very, very
thoughtful and you gotta think about it.
And as a parent, you have to,
not necessarily, shield your
kids from these types of moments
and make it easy all the time.
And that's a tricky balance.
'cause I think we all want our kids to
have better lives and, and make it smooth.
But, understanding, you know, in some
ways cherish some of the speed bumps
that your kids are going through
because we've all gone through
those and we've come up on the other
side and we've been better for it.
I had 11 surgeries.
I was, I I should have probably
retired, when I was 27 years old, 28.
But I, I, you know, I, I stuck
it out for 3, 4, 5 more years.
Glad I did.
But, I'm still not walking
very well be because of that.
But you know, again, I, it was never
worked to me like being resilient and,
and it was never that hard for me.
I don't know why.
Probably because of the way I grew up
and some of the exposures that I had
of, built resiliency and I didn't even
know it because of the way I was raised.
I was on my own more and, and put in
situations where I had to survive.
So I think that taught me more than my
parental, you know, guidance growing up.
but I know that doesn't necessarily answer
Liron: No, I think what you said
is it's coming is the key, right?
I mean, this is something that we have
to address and understand that it's
not, it's, it's not a unique experience.
It's an actually, it's a total experience
of, of being an excellent athlete.
Ben: Yeah.
And examples there, there's no
shortages of examples, right?
It is.
Every, everybody's pathway has,
has that type of, again, those
speed bumps throughout it and how
they overcome it is, is, something
to, to work on to understand.
I, I think you're right.
It's coming.
Be prepared for it.
Relish it, be almost, if you can
get in that mentality of almost be
excited about some of the hiccups.
I know it's a hard place to get to,
but, I, I think some of the best.
People and you know, whether you're
in business or you're Roger Federer
or what they, they, Kobe Bryant,
these guys relish those hiccups 'cause
it's a chance to learn and grow.
And they understand when they come
out the other side, they've built a
little bit more armor to have success.
Matt: Yeah, there's a book called, I
think it's called Chopping Wood, if
I'm, hopefully I'm quoting it right,
which is all about the process, the
setbacks, the constant setbacks in
order to work your way to become
better and elite at whatever it may
be in life or as a, or as an athlete.
And, Liron and I talk
about this quite a bit.
I mean, I think our kids, my son also
a soccer player, they've, they've gone
through more adversity at 13 than I
faced after playing four years of college
soccer, right up until I was 22 years
old when my, when my career ended.
And, yeah, hopefully it
makes them stronger humans.
Ben: because of the environment
they're in now of making the team.
And you're on one a team now, and
Liron: Outta
Matt: you have 23 kids in training.
18 get rostered 16 play.
You know?
Yes.
All, all of the above.
Right.
And, and we live
Ben: the exposure with social
media and popularity of playing
or not playing and Yeah,
Matt: all of it, labels.
Right.
I think that come with it.
One, one league versus another team.
One one league versus
another league One team.
Versus another team.
All all of it.
Ben: They didn't know that, right?
It was just like, oh, they didn't know it.
But now they can, they can look up
the rankings at under, you know,
under nine for the under nine
third best team in the country.
Oh, really?
Liron: We're after that kid.
Matt: Well, and you know, and that's
the kind of the fascinating part of
this generation is that, we live in a
world of, of helicopter or bulldozer
parenting where so many kids are
given trophies for participation, yet
we're asking more and more of them
because of the exposure that they see.
And I don't know if they're
necessarily prepared for it.
Right.
And I don't know if we're, I don't
know if I'm as a parent doing as much
as I can to prepare my kids for it.
And it's a constant challenge, I think,
for all of us to get the most out
of our kids, and ultimately to make
sure that they're happy and pushing
themselves to be great in whatever it is.
Ben: No, I think, I think it's well said.
I, I don't know if we're all going
through this for the first time.
Parents come up to me weekly if I'm
at my kids' training or whatever.
Hey, what do you think about this?
I don't know.
What do you think
Matt: Yeah.
Ben: you're going, I'm going through
this the first time I'm going
through this for the first time.
You know, I'm, I'm figuring out this with
my wife every day on what's acceptable.
Well, how much Instagram
time should we give our son?
We allow him to post a video of him
having, two goals, I don't know.
I don't know what the answer is.
Is that, is that a good thing?
Is it,
Liron: know a podcast you can listen to
that might be able to help you with that.
Ben: think, well, I'm gonna
have to start 'cause need, I
need a lot of help with this.
also have 30 other kids in, in that room
over there, that are big kids that, that
need a lot of love and attention to.
And, you know, that balance for me
personally is, is a very tricky one too.
Of,
Liron: Was it obvious that
your son was gonna play soccer?
Ben: Yeah.
Yeah.
He, you know, he was, he's,
yeah, he had it from a early age.
He has blood, pulse and, and
my, my younger one loves it.
My daughter is sophomore in high school.
She'll be a junior.
She also plays, more rec
and, and high school.
And we just moved to Texas.
So it was a nice little way
for her to meet friends.
so I have different, my, my
youngest plays club, soccer, middle
one's, very, very intensive in
the academies, playing up one.
And then my daughter plays for the
high school, so I'm getting taste
of different avenues with the sport.
And they're all great and they
all fit each child, and that's a
really, I feel really lucky that, you
know, my daughter has used it from
a social standpoint and loves it.
She's not the best player on the team, but
she loves it and it's given her a little
community and it's made this transition
from the east coast to Texas easier.
Great.
You know, it's a wonderful thing
and it gives my, it gives my middle
one an outlet because he's an animal
and he loves it and he, he loves
contact and he's, he's got bravado.
It gives him an outlet to do something.
Right.
My middle one, he's he is more
artistry and he's in, in a nice
little club thing at 10 years old.
So it's a wonderful sport.
I think have to also come back to
that at times and understand how,
how much this sport can give us.
Uh, and, and to appreciate
that sometimes as well.
Liron: Absolutely.
It's the biggest gift.
Uh, you know, it's just to go back to you
a little bit, um, I just want ha have to,
'cause I remember the call from, from my
cousin who is our, mutual acquaintance.
When you made it to, to play in
England, I know it was short lived, but
United States was a different place.
obviously.
What, what did it feel like
to be in that locker room?
Just give us something.
I mean, I just, it's a,
something I have to know.
Ben: I, it was it was a strange
time, you know, I, was different.
I didn't necessarily crave Europe.
I didn't come to be a pro like
the kids now, like, okay, I need
to, A lot of 'em are like, I'm
going, I need to get to Europe.
'cause of the exposure.
I didn't really know
what European soccer was.
I, I knew it was out there
and I knew it was the best.
But a team came calling and, it
was a neat opportunity back then.
We did loans so I could still
be part of the MLS season.
And in the off season it was very
long, it was about three months long.
You could go on loan to Europe
and play for a couple months and
then come back to your season.
So you could essentially play for two
Liron: right.
'cause MLS is summer, so
Ben: That's right.
It doesn't happen often, if ever anymore.
but you know, Landon Donovan did that.
Brian McBride, I think Eddie Lou,
a lot of team players were doing
Matt: Johnson.
Yep.
Ben: Eddie Johnson, right?
So they'd get the, the European
team would get a look at a player
to whether or not they would sign.
And anyways, I broke, broke my
ankle, there, and it was, kind of
derailed my career in some ways.
That was five surgeries I
had after that, broken ankle.
But even though it derailed my
career, that two months that
I spent there was incredible.
I think of it as such a wonderful time
just to deal with a, a winter in Europe,
playing soccer, in England with the fans.
Matt: Ham Forest class.
Ben: amazing for us.
And the fans kind of gravitated towards
me because I was, you know, I played
like a little bit of a, you know, I was
nuts and a gave and I was physical and
I, and it was, I was blue collar and
especially in the championship at that
point, there was, that really resonated
with the crowd and so they got behind me
and I, I had a certain level of success.
So even though it, it, again, I
think it derailed where maybe my,
certainly where my ceiling was.
I don't regret it for a second.
I think it was all part of it.
And it was a great, great time in my life.
Liron: You know, it's, it's, what, what
you mentioned about the, the roughness,
kind of the, this is almost the, the kind
of the profile of the American nineties
player, the, the America exported these.
The talent were maybe in, in, in the
rest of the European work, you said?
Well, didn't have the, the, maybe
the, the technical skill that was
running in Europe or Brazilian,
but we, America was generating
kind of a rough and gruff players.
Right.
This was kind of a,
Ben: Well, I think they
were pretty well rounded.
Yeah.
they weren't poor technically they were.
They were, you know,
good ath athletically.
They were good.
I think they were gifted mentally.
They were really, wanted to,
to, could take information very
well and they're coachable.
And I think there was a, a lot of,
you know, Europeans in particular
Germany at the time and England,
that really appreciated the
American player as they do now.
but you know, again, Brian, Eddie
Lewis, Eddie Johnson was there.
Bobby Convi.
We had goalkeepers,
Matt: Harks.
Ben: we had John Harts, we had pl, plenty
of goalkeepers over there that were always
doing very well at the highest levels.
and that was the first group of soccer
players I think that went to England.
Not necessarily me, but maybe, a Eddie
Lewis and my Brian McBride, Joe Max Moore.
These guys were the first ones to
go to kind of England and be like,
wait, we're soccer players too?
Not just goalies because it was
Frito and Keller and these boys
that were really excelling.
And I think the appreciation for the
American player started around then.
Matt: Hey Ben, can you talk a little
bit about representing the US Men's
national team, or actually go, go
back to the US Youth National team
where you first started representing
the country and then moving into
the first team and the men's team.
Ben: That all happened
really quickly for me.
You know, I went from being a, a kid
in Pennsylvania playing for a select
team to playing on the national team.
It probably was like a year and a
half of just boom, boom, boom, boom.
So it, it happened really quickly.
So I found myself, at the under
17 trying out for the under
seventeens before their World Cup.
And I remember one training, I was
always excelling and I kept moving and
moving and I hit this under 17 team.
Finally, it was like, I'm
going to the national team.
And I went there and I was nowhere
close to being at that level.
It was like the, the
soccer, it, it just ceiling.
It was like, whoa, these guys are up here.
Matt: Was it the, was it the physicality,
the speed, because it wasn't,
Ben: everything, everything
everybody talks about of, of it was
the speed, the speed of thought,
the physicality, the intensity.
All of this was like, whoa, I'm not there.
To a point where I remember they
were training after like two or three
days, of me trying to kind of hang
in there or keep my head above water.
I was on the other field for like
the rest of the week doing like
individual stuff, shooting on
goalkeepers or like I was that guy.
it was, it was really a
wonderful moment for me.
I was like, holy shit, I am.
I'm nowhere near of these guys.
So it, it, it, it pushed me.
And then we talk about resiliency.
Okay, what does that do now?
What does that, what's your mindset?
And, I just got back and got to work.
And, then the eighteens,
it was a little bit better.
And made that team.
And then under twenties, I made
the World Cup team for, we went to
Malaysia playing for my, that was
my, my first big tournament World Cup
experience with the under twenties.
And then lucky enough to be on
the, Sydney Olympic team and
then sneaking into the World Cup.
And that was one of the, one of the last
guys on that plane, it was hanging onto
the wing, as they were going to Germany.
Matt: get chills as you talk about it.
I mean, what a, like, just an
incredible, incredible experience,
Ben: was, I was very, very lucky.
And again, the World Cup is
certainly the ultimate, right?
That was something that we all dream
of as, as young soccer players.
And to get on that plane and, and
just be a part of that, and then to
sneak onto the field for, a half was,
'cause I know a lot of people that
gone to the World Cup as well and
didn't play and sitting on the bench,
but get in and to feel that, something
that, again, I get chills as well.
Really, really lucky and fortunate to
have had some, had had that pathway.
So,
Matt: Well, I mean, you say lucky,
but for all of us who watched
you play and have the pleasure of
watching you play, there was no luck.
I mean, the, the, the grit and intensity
and technical ability and everything
that you brought to every single match
you played in is what got you there.
but being, being grateful
in, in luckier two different
Ben: Yeah.
Well, again, sometimes I say that stuff
is because, and I go back to when I
said when going to UVA was a, was a
really good choice and making choices
that, again, sometimes you don't really
know how it all plays out and maybe
would've played out if I went to Rutgers.
Right?
But, Bruce Arena was the coach when
I went to UVA and he was the coach,
during that World Cup, I don't know
what, 10 years later, eight years later.
Right.
So there is, there are relationships
and there are things that happen
within this that, that, you know,
again, I always feel like gave me, a
leg up, but I worked hard, you know,
I was certainly, I was coachable.
I worked my ass off.
I was selfless and do think,
wasn't, wasn't all coaches.
Liron: but that, that's
that, that's the point, right?
Because you, you we brought up resiliency,
but almost made the question too easy
because I was talking about resiliency
through injuries, but what you brought
up is really the, the, the real point
is how when we try to communicate
with, with the next generation is
resiliency through adversity within
the game is how do you self criticize?
How do you, without someone on the
outside always telling you, do better
do this, or giving you some Instagram
cliches or a coach sitting above you.
How does, did you have kind
of a self-criticism as a young
athlete where you said, I can do
better or I need to do better?
Or did, did you have people around
you that gave you that advice?
Ben: didn't have a lot of that.
I think there's a lot more
exposure to that as well.
Is it good?
I don't know.
Is it you you're getting inundated with?
There's no shortage.
You go on Instagram and check out
a inspirational Kobe thing, right?
Then you're gonna get another one and
you're gonna get, you can, you can go
down that rabbit hole all day long.
So these kids are seeing it, they're
hearing what the best of the best, or
saying whether it's joke, OVI and Kobe.
I never had that exposure and
no, nobody ever told me that.
My father didn't tell me that.
My mother didn't tell me.
They don't know.
They didn't go through this, they
weren't even into the sports.
So that's where I say, like, my
environment taught me that, right?
The, the environment of growing up
in this wacky small town, Middletown,
Pennsylvania, where I was playing best
basketball on the street all summer with.
Characters and I was just put in
situations, I don't wanna get into too
many of the situations, but it was always,
there was more survival and more on your
own to figure these things out earlier.
Right?
I don't think kids are able to figure
out those, put in those situations
earlier to figure it out themselves.
So it's like, whoa, I overstepped
my bounds with that, you know,
26-year-old guy who was about to
kick my ass even though I was 16.
Liron: Excellent point.
Yes.
Ben: that, those were just life
experiences that grew through being
in environment that kids are, are not
in as much, or at least my children
Liron: same.
They, they're all playing within the
same age bracket, one or two a year,
and always supervised by adults.
They're not in this kind of jungle
and of the, the survival of the
fittest environment in the sport that
they love, it rarely exists in here.
I you, so then what do we do
with adversity, right, Matt?
I mean, how do we talk to those kids
about adversity when they're in this
sheltered cellophane environment all the
Matt: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Ben, just be respectful of your time.
I've got one question and then
we're gonna end it with a rapid fire
Liron: No, no.
gonna push Ben, how much time you got?
Relax, Matt.
Relax.
How much time you got?
Ben: Keep going.
I'll tell you when I gotta go.
Matt: Okay.
Liron: Let
Matt: Okay.
Liron: here.
Calm down.
Matt: Ben, when you started
coaching DC United 15 years ago
and now you're coaching the Dynamo.
What do you see what do you see
different in the young players
coming up through the academy?
Making first team appearances, whether
they're homegrown or even they're,
they're coming from South America.
As in terms of quality, in
terms of intensity, experience.
everything that ultimately, hopefully let
them have a long career ahead of them.
And then what are you looking for
in those young players to see if
they have a fit in your first team?
Ben: That's a good question.
I think they're better in
every aspect of the game, right?
The game practically,
technically, physically, right?
Mentally, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't see that being
increased at the level of.
The other three that I just mentioned.
So yeah, I don't have the answer.
I don't have the answer.
Liron: observation though,
but your observation is, is.
Ben: and I'm not saying it, I'm
not saying it's worse, right?
I'm just saying I don't see it
moving.
I don't see it growing as much as
maybe some of the, those other areas.
Matt: I mean, honestly, I think it's
very analogous to some of the complaints
about the US men's national team.
You look at the quality of players
and where they're playing overseas.
Vis-a-vis how that translates
into performances on the pitch
and in major tournaments.
And I think that's where a lot of
the complaints stem from, right?
You've got players who are better
overall players perhaps, but do they
have the same level of intensity?
Do mentally, are they as strong?
Do they compete as well as they can?
Do they represent and want to
represent our country the way
players of your generation?
And this isn't like an old hat,
new hat thing, but I do think
that's what the dialogue is about.
Ben: A hundred percent.
And that's, again, I
have no answers on it.
I don't, you know, swear
I'm a limited human.
have to, have so much focus on, you know,
wish I spent more time on thinking about
the youth and where this is all missing.
It's just, you know, again, I'm in,
take a temperature every day and try
to get my team to win games and support
this group that I have right now.
And, as I said, I'm dealing
with some of that for the first
time because, I'm a parent.
I'm watching my kid grow and what
to offer him to be at his best
if he really wants to do this.
I think those are, these are all really
good discussions that our country's
having and constantly having on
what the best development, you know,
environment for the, for our players.
what's false?
What, how can, how far can we push 'em?
Are we pushing 'em enough?
I don't know.
I don't have answers for
this, but I see what you see.
Liron: yeah, you know, every
time we've done an international
tournament with N-Y-C-F-C.
The first thing we noticed was the
difference in toughness in the kids,
in the international teams, especially.
We, we had a tournament
in Manchester, let's say.
There were a few English teams there.
By the second, third game, the American
kids were all caught up because they had
the athleticism, they understood the game,
but first one or two games always getting
blown out because the physicality of the
game was just so overwhelming for them.
And it's kind of a thin line
where, because obviously you
don't want to berate or be on top
of someone and say, get tougher.
I dunno if that even means anything.
On the other hand, what you two
have brought up is a real issue.
Ben: You know, this idea
and the catch up of American
soccer, like we're catching up.
Like yeah.
These, these other countries
aren't staying still.
Liron: Mm-hmm.
Ben: else is here and we're
just going up to get 'em.
They're moving too.
And, they're moving, with the, the
best of the best in their country and
they're the best athletes and, the
best focus and they, they don't have
as many, other areas of, of, in, in
their country to, or opportunities.
I mean, the opportunities
in this country are amazing.
You can, you can go pro in anything.
You can go pro in marbles in this country.
I'm sure you can find a lane of
Liron: Hey, this is maybe
the, the lesson here.
Marbles.
Ben: there, there's always so
many things to, cut the pool down.
so I don't know.
I think there's a part of that too
that, but we're, we've come a long way.
Don't get me wrong.
Our league is there.
There's a lot of good, I don't want
to be like the old school negative
Liron: is why we're doing
Ben: There's some incre.
We've made incredible strides in
this country and even to have this
discussion and, and to have people
all across our country having the same
discussion about this and being critical
is a big step in the right direction.
Matt: I was actually gonna ask you,
what's it like when you travel around
the country with your team now and you
go into, I think it, it must be 26 or
27 soccer specific stadiums in this
country compared to when you were first
playing in empty football stadiums or
maybe half empty football stadiums.
Is there a sense of
I've helped build this?
Is there a sense of, you know,
this is, we are, I mean, real is
the wrong way of saying it, but
like, we have arrived, right?
I mean, we put so much pressure on
ourselves to be at one of the top five
leagues, but this is a, a strong league
that's gaining in strength and will
continue to, and I'm just curious to what
your reaction or thoughts are about that.
Ben: Well, I am.
I don't let myself kind of go
there that often, but every
now and then there will be.
Some moments, like a 20th anniversary
or, you know, there's these, when messy
comes and when, when David came for
the first time, there's moments where,
I see this thing kind of jump up, you
know, and it's, and its acceleration.
And, yeah, I, I, there's a little bit
of me that's really proud of that.
I've been able to, from being
20 years old, be a part of this.
Almost every step of the way
and in different ways, in, in
American soccer in general.
I even was a president for an
NWSL team, the Washington Spirit
for, you know, three quarters of
a year and we won a championship.
So even on the women's side, I, I
got a little taste of the evolution
of, of the sport in this country.
And I just, again, I'm super humbled
when I can go into that space and,
you know, just thankful again, just to
be part of this and, every step away.
And it also gives me a unique perspective.
'cause I remember when it was, I.
Not so good.
And the stadiums were
not, you know, right ones.
And there weren't, weren't fans
in Kansas City on a summer day.
You could, you could, it was
like 600 people and they were all
scattered around Arrowhead Stadium.
It was like, what, what is, what is this?
Where the hotels we were staying at or the
way we traveled, all this stuff I saw, I
saw at the bottom and to where we've gone.
I have unique perspective as a
lot of people do and have been
in this league for a long time.
That, we've how far this,
this thing has grown.
Liron: many times can you get
goosebumps in one interview
before, uh, they shut us down?
This is, uh, I now, now I know your
time is short, so we, I we're, I
am gonna push a little forward.
Ben.
Just, being a coach.
do you feel like you were always
a coach, or is this something
that you kind of grow into?
What do you, how did you see yourself?
Ben: I, I didn't want to be a coach.
I wasn't ready to be a coach.
so that combination was dangerous.
It was Put those together.
I didn't really wanna be a
coach, but I needed a job.
I had all these surgeries.
I was, I was, I tell
this story all the time.
I got off medication.
My, I was 32 and I was basically,
I was masking a lot of pain
to get through the season.
And, I had a child on my first child.
I remember in the off season,
I said, I'm gonna clean myself.
I'm gonna take off all these meds and
I'm gonna see how much I've been masking.
And I couldn't walk down
the stairs with her.
I remember holding her, I was
like, I can't walk down the stairs.
So that's when I was like, I
gotta, I gotta retire that.
And they kind of forced me.
They were like, look, we can't watch
you train once a week or twice a week.
That's all I could do.
So they said, Hey, be, why don't you
come be an assistant coach for a year?
I'm like, oh, I guess I need a job.
so I'll give this a try.
And then six months later at DC
United, they fired the head coach.
Kurt Olfo, you know.
And, that was, a tough time because
really in you need years to really
figure out who you are as a leader
and that, that was the plan, I
guess, or at least to check it out.
But I had no way wanted
to be a head coach.
But I was a kind of, the fans
knew me and an interim basis.
They asked me to take the job
when they let Kurt go unfairly.
They let Kurt go unfairly.
The team was not very good, and I
didn't think he was, do, I thought
he was doing a good job and needed
more time to make that his own team.
But this is sports, and they did that.
And, long story short, I, I took it out
of just responsibility and then by the
end of the year, they offered me the job.
We didn't get any better, but they
were convinced that I could do the job.
But I had, my infrastructure was,
well, my foundation, was, was horrible.
I had no idea how to communicate
necessarily what was in my head.
I, I didn't know how I
wanted my team to play.
I didn't know how to tell them how I
wanted them to play, but I knew how
to motivate and I knew how to get, I
think the most out of these players.
And so I survived with that for
a few years until I really kind
of, got punched in the face.
And, and we had a year where we
were the last place in the league.
in the history of the league, we
had the least points, least wins
in the history of the league.
but the same year we won the open cup.
So I kept the team together during this
turbulent year and we won the open cup.
And it showed me really clearly
like, okay, what, what my strengths
are, and then where my blind
spots are, where my weaknesses.
It was the first time I
really kind of saw it clearly.
So I just started picking people out.
It was like, no, I gotta learn you.
I need you, I need you.
And I have the luxury as a head coach
to have three or four people around me.
That are smarter than me or, or can
figure out some things that I can't.
And, then it got a little bit easier.
Coaching got a little easier once I
didn't think I had to do everything
and I could start delegating some of
the stuff that I was, uh, poor at.
but yeah, it was, this was,
I was an accidental leader.
I was a leader on the field growing
up, you know, with the team and with DC
United, I could yell and scream and fight
Liron: That's what I was gonna say.
I've seen clips of you.
I know what you could do,
Ben: all that.
But, um, you know, I, I
wasn't, I didn't know the game.
I wasn't sitting out there like,
oh, we need to, you know, this is
this, this is what's wrong right
now, tactically, like, no, it was
always, always made sense to me.
And so that wasn't the, the case.
Anyway, that's a,
Liron: you coach, then you coach Rooney.
Then you tell this guy what to do.
Ben: to towards, not really, not really,
but that's also leadership, right?
It's like, oh, okay, Wayne's coming into
my team, and what am I gonna, you know.
Boss Wayne around and, and,
and tell him and tell him how
to play the game of soccer.
No, that's not how this works.
Right?
So, so that's leadership too,
is everybody, you gotta treat
everybody a little bit different.
And, you know, the way worked with Wayne
was like, what do you think, Wayne?
Let's talk about, let, let's
bring him into the process.
We, I knew Wayne wanted to be a
coach anyways, so bringing Tim into
the process, it's a no-brainer.
And, and again, Wayne was very
easy because he was, the lights
would come on and play at his best.
He trained very hard and he was a great
teammate and he was low maintenance.
So he was a, believe me, I've
had a lot worse than Wayne.
Liron: listen, I'm a big Manu fan,
so, yeah, I'm gonna say it on the pod.
Yeah.
Not popular thing today, but, of what,
I can't even imagine that moment.
go ahead Matt.
Do you want,
Ben: it out when.
Liron: Yeah.
well first thank you very much, Ben.
This has been an incredible
conversation for us and we hope you've
enjoyed quick ones, quick rapid fire
Landon Donovan or Clint Dempsey.
Ben: I suppose this is
supposed to be quick.
That's a great question.
have so many, like, it depends
if we're playing this guy and
Matt: Okay.
We're gonna give you a pass.
How about this greatest
atmosphere you've ever played in?
Was there an LS Teca game somewhere?
A World Cup game?
Ben: As Teca, was, sitting
ready to go into the game.
I was, the board was up ready to go,
and Blanco scored an own goal to win
it back when the own goals were there.
So I was in overtime, I was finally
gonna get my chance to play in
Azteca and yeah, again, as I was
up Blanco scores, the golden goal.
So that was it.
But the noise, when that goal
hit, it was, it was real.
It's just a sea of people.
You just can't believe how many
humans can fit in one place.
it's a pretty special place.
But, you know, had some in the MLS that
are, you know, constantly at a high level,
the Olympics, you know, Sydney, Sydney,
and, some of these areas were great.
But yeah, Aztec is, is pretty special.
Matt: pre-game you more anxious as a
player or as a coach, or not at all?
Ben: Coach, yeah, coach is,
it's the uncontrollables,
Liron: a dad
Ben: Dad.
Yeah.
Dad's comparable.
Dad's comparable.
Liron: Matt, we're fucked.
Ben: again, it ends up
going to uncontrollables.
You know, as a player, I felt like I could
go and give, and you get exercise, as a
coach, you want to try to control as much
as possible, but really the whistle blows.
It's a beautiful sport in that way
where you cannot joystick the game.
It's about the preparation, beforehand.
Yeah, you can make some adjustments
tactically and, and halftime, but really,
there's just so many variables to a game.
Matt: Last question, would 15-year-old
Ben Olson make it through the maze?
That is Youth Soccer in the US today.
Ben: Yeah, I think so.
think
Liron: Oh, I know so.
Matt: I know.
So too.
Ben: if I didn't get, if I didn't get
kicked out, from the, having too much
personality and, and 'cause I think that
times we're guilty of the personalities
and the kid that maybe gets in trouble
a little bit or things like that,
they're just like, he's, 13 years old.
He got in trouble once
or twice, get him out.
You know, like maybe if he's really
good, let's, let's bring him in.
Let's work with him, let's
keep working with him.
so maybe if I was that kid,
but I, I'd probably be fine.
I'd take care of myself a lot better.
These guys are educated so
much more on the, the physical
preparation, diet, all that stuff.
we never had the luxury of that stuff.
And I think it cost me a lot of injuries.
Liron: Wow.
Right, coach.
What an honor.
I, I just can't say enough.
Ben: I appreciate you guys having me on.
And we'll do it again at a, at
a later date as you guys go.
Matt: Great.
Liron: thank you very
Matt: luck the rest of the season,
Liron: an honor
Matt: Cheers.
Liron: Ciao.
Matt: Wow.
That conversation with Ben Olsen captured
so much of what's happening in you soccer right now.
He talked about how today's environment gives kids more opportunity
than ever, but also how structure can sometimes take away
from their freedom to play and just figure things out
He reminded us that even with better fields, better coaching,
and bigger platforms, the real test is resilience,
something he was incredibly well known for in his playing career and
his coaching career and how players handle
the inevitable challenges that they'll face.
Liron: I mean, what stayed with me here is,
except for obviously the walk-down memory lane and seeing him like
this, was just to talk about parenting, right?
I can't believe I'm speaking parenting with Ben Olsen
the idea that us as parents, we actually have a a say here.
We can prepare our kids, but we can't control them, and we cannot control the game or how they're going to develop.
It's the same lesson he's living now, you know, guiding his own kids
Through a system that's just really different than the one he grew up in
Then that's why he''s a big listener to the podcast.
For me, this connected back to the memory at RFK and
realizing soccer was a young sport in America taking root.
And here we are a generation later, still building it, still chasing it.
And today, when I think back at it, you know, I sometimes
wonder is if those players at my uncle's house, I a tw
How much wine were they drinking?
Different times buddy.
Ben, thank you for the insight and perspective.
We're most grateful.
Thank you all for listening.
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Please share this episode with other parents, coaches, all you think will appreciate this.
See you next week Matt.
See you next week, Liron.