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Reimagining Black Health is a podcast dedicated to advancing Black health equity by exploring critical health topics through the lens of the Eight Dimensions of Well-Being—emotional, physical, occupational, social, spiritual, intellectual, environmental, and financial.
Brought to you by The Council on Black Health, the show highlights experts, advocates, and community members who are reimagining what it means to thrive and live safe, healthy, and happy lives. Through insightful conversations, we amplify the voices of those driving meaningful change in Black health and wellness.
Join us in achieving equity for generations. Donate to help the Council on Black Health drive lasting impact!
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Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: I would
always tell people that as we are looking
at spaces for black men as far as mental,
physical, financial, spiritual, and social
health, is that the first thing we have
to do is define what health means for
us, what masculinity, how manhood means
for us without looking at the others.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Welcome to
Reimagining Black Health, a podcast
from the Council on Black Health, where
we explore what it means to thrive
in our communities through the lens
of the eight dimensions of wellbeing.
I'm your host, Dr. Melicia
Witt-Glover, chief Executive Officer
for the Council on Black Health.
In this episode, we're
focusing on men's health.
For many black men, conversations
around health are shaped by silence,
survival, and societal pressure.
Today we're breaking that silence.
Joining me are two powerful voices.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman is an
associate professor at the University
of Maryland, Baltimore County.
He specializes in men's
health and black masculinity.
His research explores how identity and
culture influence health behaviors with
a focus on masculinities and fatherhood.
His work has been published in
several journals, including Phylon
and the Journal of Black Studies.
Dr. Coleman has also served as a US Peace
Corps volunteer, and I'm excited to say
he was elected chair of the Council on
Black Health Board of Directors in 2025.
And Arthur AJ Johns is a community
member whose life changed after joining
Village Heartbeat, a faith-based health
initiative in Charlotte, North Carolina.
He's also a certified community health
worker with the Council on Black
Health, and he's a basketball coach.
He supports veterans in the community.
He told us his nickname is Mr. Nonstop,
and he earned that for a reason.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Mm-hmm.
Melicia Witt-Glover: His story is one
of transformation community and hope,
Alton and aj, welcome to the podcast.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for having me.
Ailton: Thank you for having me.
Melicia Witt-Glover: So my very, very
first question, I just introduced
you, Alton, and it says that
you focus on black masculinity.
And I want you to tell people in
your own words, in plain language,
if you were at the family reunion
and somebody said, what do you do?
And you said, black masculinity.
And they said, what does that mean?
What would you say?
Ailton: I would tell them that I
study how black men appear in society.
So I would say, you know,
what makes a black man a man?
And whether that's how he interacts
with his family, his community, his
job, um, how he appears as, as you said
in spiritual places and recreational
places, is what makes black men, men
Melicia Witt-Glover: who decides that,
Ailton: you know, it's actually.
Twofold, right?
So number one, I decide how I wanna
present myself, and, and that's
my individual masculinity, right?
Mm-hmm.
Who do I wanna see myself as?
What do I define myself as, as a
being a man and what manhood is?
And then the second one is how society
sees me and whether or not they
deemed my actions acceptable or not.
So for an example.
Uh, let's use something as
simple as fingernail polish.
At one time, in, in earlier history, men
really didn't wear fingernail polish.
It wasn't seen as being very masculine.
But now if you look at football
players or basketball players,
rappers, fingernail polish has become,
you know, a fashion trend de jo.
So, uh, society has accepted
it and the individual black men
have actually started using it.
So.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Thank
you for sharing this.
And now we know what black masculinity is.
Um, one of the goals or the, the,
the main goal for the work of the
Council on Black Health is to achieve
optimal health in black communities.
And we talk about people
thriving and not just surviving.
Aj, when we think about men's health,
specifically black men's health,
and you could use yourself as an
example, what does it look like?
What does it feel like for you
to be thriving as it relates
to your health as a, as a man?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Uh, in thriving, I
think of, of it as in a process of the
whole man, like, uh, the head, the heart,
the spirit, the mind, body and soul.
Like, you know, um, knowing your
health, knowing your, um, not being
afraid of going to see a white coat,
a doctor, whether it's a white face
doctor or white, a black doctor,
as long as he don't have, you know,
syndrome of that white coat, fear.
Um, and just knowing yourself as far as
what you live for, what you believe in,
you know, your higher being, uh, that
God has placed us here to be men, and
that's what the whole man consists of.
So when we talk about that in, it's
in wholeness that I speak of men like.
Melicia Witt-Glover: What do you
think gets in the way of manhar?
So you gave a great big picture
definition of thriving in men's health.
What gets in the way
of, of thriving for men?
What gets in the way of
us being there already?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Well, like I said,
a lot of times it's within the head,
you know, um, the head, the heart,
all of those things work together
as in a whole, like in a body.
And a lot of times people,
uh, for a lack of education.
For lack of determination or just the
lack of, they won't find out little
small things like, why do I have
a bump on my arm all of a sudden?
Or Where did this lymph node
come from on my neck or anything,
you know, that would appear,
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: yeah,
Arthur “AJ” Johns: they would go
through statistics of, well, when
someone else had that, it was this.
This is what they did, or this is
how they self-medicated or treated,
you know, these different things.
So that's in the head and then in the
heart, if they're not feeling like, you
know, uh, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Like, you know, uh, a real good example
for a lot of years I used to hear about.
Uh, and you said we are gonna
talk like we're in the barbershop
or we are in the men's room.
So, you know, be careful,
be careful what you ask for.
But, you know, a lot of times, uh,
brother ton, you know, this like,
uh, coming up, a lot of men were
afraid about that finger issue.
You know, having your
prostate checked mm-hmm.
And going through a finger.
A lot of men don't know in this
day and age right now, in this
time, that it has changed to where.
A PSA is given through
a blood examination.
There is no, you know, uh, the,
it is, it's not as evasive.
Mm-hmm.
It once was where the doctor, as soon as
you walk in, you knew that he's gonna say,
I have to check to see if you have cancer.
And you knew it, that was entailed and
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: A lot of men just
wouldn't go to the doctor for that
reason alone until it was way too late.
So,
Melicia Witt-Glover: yeah.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: You know.
Um, once they found out, it's a lot
easier now when I speak with veterans or
different people age 50 and old above.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And I say
to them, you know, have you had
your a colon exam or rectal exam?
And they say, some have said like,
no, I'm not going to do that.
I don't want to know if I have anything.
I'm like, what are you talking about?
You wanna know, you know, you
don't wanna wait until you can't.
Be helped.
And so they'll say, well, I don't
want them to be poking and probing
and doing this and doing that.
And I said, no, you, it takes one minute.
They give you a needle in
your arm and they'll tell you
everything that's wrong with you.
Everything that's right with you.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
Yeah.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And so a
lot of people have been going.
To the doctor, the gentleman that I
know that were uneducated to, they
went and had examinations and good
things have happened through it.
Like, uh, one of my large brothers, he
found out that he was with, uh, his PSA
was like 25 or something or another.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: But it
was just from us doing those.
Examinations, you know, and
having it where we were able
to, uh, get men to come out
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Believing that
they weren't going to have to go
through old ways of being examined.
And when they found out he had, uh,
cancer, they caught it in a time that,
you know, he's getting help for it.
So
Melicia Witt-Glover: that, that is,
that is really, that is a blessing.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Mm-hmm.
Melicia Witt-Glover: You've said, and
you, you've shared a lot of things.
Thank you so much for that.
And Dr. Coleman, Alton, as we.
Think about, um, what AJ said about
the, maybe the reason that we're not
at thriving right now for men's health
is because some of the head, some of
the heart, and really just, you know,
people being in their head about what
it takes to go to the doctor and what
might happen and things like that.
From your research and black masculinity
and the impact of masculinity and
health, how do you think those
traditional views of masculinity
influence how black men approach their
own health and their own healthcare?
I know you talked about the nail polish,
but besides the nail polish mm-hmm.
Ailton: So the question when you ask
about, um, why, why black masculinity
presents itself in this manner, we
have to remember that in the African
American and black community, that
we are influenced by slavery, uh, a
hundred years of legal discrimination,
and then the remnants of de facto, uh,
discrimination in the United States.
And because of these things.
How we present ourselves
have been shaped in society.
So I give you an example away from
prostate cancer and finger nail polish.
I'm a black dude, and
you know, I'm six feet.
I'm about 200 plus pounds, and I live
currently in and around Baltimore.
Now, there definitely parts around
Baltimore where being six feet tall,
200 plus pounds is a protective factor.
So when I go into certain
parts of the neighborhoods,
I don't have to feel afraid.
But then there are other places where
I go and that same protective factor,
that same largeness is now a risk factor
because how I interact with the police,
I'm seeing this being more violent.
Uh, people are more
likely to be afraid of me.
So black men have to navigate, there's a
very thin line of, uh, safety and danger.
And so while, you know, we, when we
talk about bigness, there may be a time
where people will say, oh, you know,
lose weight so you could be healthier.
Right?
But then when I go back in, into a, a
dangerous, uh, community, which may have
developed because of red lining, right,
because of how banks, um, congregated
low income families and groups together.
Drug infiltration of our communities, then
that bigness becomes a protective factor.
So you have to, with black masculinity
and how we present ourselves and how it
affects our health, has to be taken in
account of discrimination and racism.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Thank you.
That's, that's helpful.
And, and, and what you're saying
also impacts a number of things.
Related to how people engage
in health, health behaviors.
And so, you know, if I'm making that link
to, to, to things like exercising, um, uh,
Rashaun Ray, uh, is, he's a professor, I
think of the University of Maryland, did
a study several years ago where he talked
about, um, some of the things that black
men would do as they're related to going
out and, and exercising, for example, like
putting on a, a college t-shirt to make.
To make themselves appear to be less
threatening and things like, so things
that you have to think about doing, um,
because like, you're right, being six foot
tall looks protective in some ways and
in other ways it may look threatening.
So that's, that's important.
So that's a helpful description.
And if you think about how.
Black men make decisions about
engaging in health related
behaviors or engaging in healthcare.
Can you connect those dots for us?
Uh, Alton, black masculinity and
how men approach their health.
I know you mentioned the protective fat.
Some things, uh, are protective and
some things may make you a threat, but
what does it look like when you're.
Um, deciding, um, to engage in
stress management or deciding
to make an appointment for
healthcare health screening, how
does that masculinity show up?
Ailton: Well, I think this is where
the ac you know, the academic part
does come out where, you know,
there's a study of black men and
there's this idea of John Henry Youth.
Which is, you know, actually based
on a man who, a lot of people think
it's based on a folklore, John Henry,
but it was actually a man named
John Henry, um, in North Carolina.
And he, during the interviews, they were
looking at, uh, men's health at the.
Uh, shortly after slavery, um, going
into the 19 hundreds or the early 19
hundreds, and there was a man who,
um, had got his family out of poverty
and share, copying and to actually own
acreages of land, like I think about
65 acres or something of that nature,
um, by the time he was in his fifties.
And, but.
Even though he had gotten all this
wealth and was able to support
his family, his health was, was
that he was having early signs of
cardiovascular disease in his fifties.
And so what we see is in black men
trying to achieve what is considered
the American dream of being a provider.
Um, uh, caring for their family, having
something for the next generation.
Because of discrimination and racism,
they're not able to have access to the
same resources, so they work harder
to achieve those resources at, at
the detriment of their own health.
So I, you know, I know that I
need to go work out at the gym.
I know I need to eat healthier.
I know I need to get eight hours of
sleep, but I wanna be there for my family.
I wanna con, I wanna contradict the
stereotype that black men don't care.
And so I go out, I work myself, and then.
As I stressed myself out working my
social network start to close down.
So as, as AJ has said before, sometimes
you know you have fraternities, you
have lodges, you have social groups, but
those things for black men, those black
male spaces are actually decreasing.
Right.
So a, a lot of times we were looking
at church-based interventions, but
we're seeing that those church-based
interventions really don't have
a lot of black men in them.
So then we went to barbershops.
But then again, you're only reaching
a certain segment of the community
because hair has changed, right?
So some black men wear braids, some
black men wear a lot, some black men
shave their heads at home, some men,
you know, all different kind of things.
So.
Everywhere we go, there's not one space
where black men are 100% there, and so
we don't have access to the resources
to actually care for our health.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you for that.
Yeah.
That, that, that's helpful.
Aj, I wanna turn to you.
Um.
You, uh, I, I mentioned at the top
of the show that you, uh, really
your health took a turn, uh, for
the positive when you started
participating in Village Heartbeat.
For those, uh, who, uh, don't know.
Village Heartbeat is a program that
was a partnership between, uh, the
Mecklenburg County Health Department,
uh, Mecklenburg County, uh, in Charlotte,
North Carolina Health Department.
And a number of churches in the community.
And it was a multi-week challenge,
I wanna say 16 week challenge where
churches competed against each
other, uh, for bragging rights,
uh, for, for, for improving health.
Um, and just wanna give a shout out
to a friend of the Council on Black
Health, Cheryl Emanuel, who, uh, was
one of the people who was instrumental
in, in starting, uh, village Heartbeat,
getting it off the ground, but.
Um, what I wanna talk to you about,
'cause I remember I, I used to do the,
um, stats for that and I used to always
see this, this name, uh, aj the person
that was like, you won every year.
I think you won the, uh, for
the, for the most weight loss.
What was your relationship with health
like before joining Village Heartbeat?
What made it, what made you
take your health seriously?
And, and can you talk a little bit
about just your, your experiences
with how you were able to kind of, um.
Uh, get things together to
start on this health journey.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Yes, I um, I remember
and thank you for bringing it up 'cause
it brought a lot of good memories.
My first year was the first year that
I didn't win because I got into it.
It was like, oh, let's see
what they're talking about.
You know, I'm just gonna go, because the
churches were doing it and the men, we
were trying to get men involved in it.
And Cheryl, you know, she's a very
loving person, so when she asks you
something, you're gonna just say yes.
Mm-hmm.
My first year it was.
Um, I'm supposed to go for a
walk, but I'm gonna walk to
McDonald's and get me a hamburger.
Uh, I'm supposed to go for a walk.
I'm gonna walk to the pizza shop,
and it was no preventative anything.
No.
Know your numbers.
No, nothing in my mind.
It was just I'm, I am what I am.
I am who I am.
I'm 500 pounds plus I
can't really get my weight.
Checked anymore or less, I go to a
postal scale and you know, the doctor
was saying, um, if you don't lose
this weight, you gonna end up dying
and you, it's not gonna be good.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: You are taking
all kind of medications and
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: It's just bad on
your heart and these different things.
And it wasn't, I wasn't afraid anymore
because I was caught into it like so bad.
And like I said, lack of.
Uh, it's not being uneducated to it.
It's that lack of, um,
fear was my biggest, uh,
Melicia Witt-Glover: lack of fear.
So you had just accepted your fate?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: You
were I just accepted it.
Okay.
I was just like, man, I can
run like everybody else can.
I can do the things that
everybody else is doing.
I don't have the ailments that, you
know, people are talking about right now.
Mm-hmm.
But it, it, it, it was like functioning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, about the checkout.
And so the second year it registered.
When you were saying, sending these
numbers, and I was embarrassed to say
I only walked 10 steps today when I
was supposed to walk 10,000 steps.
Melicia Witt-Glover: So the, the data
collection was what caused you to
say, wait a minute, I'm embarrassed.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Notice
noticing the numbers.
Yep.
That I was like, oh, okay.
How can I say, I'm gonna join
something and supposedly be
trying to get my health together.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm doing worse than
if I would've joined.
Okay.
That's what was wrong with me.
Like, you know, it was like if I didn't
join Village Heartbeat, I probably
would've still been 500 pounds.
Melicia Witt-Glover: It
Arthur “AJ” Johns: was
Melicia Witt-Glover: the
Arthur “AJ” Johns: competition.
But that first year, without
thinking about the competition,
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: It probably went up
to like 550 pounds because I didn't have
any kind of training on how to eat right.
Or I didn't have any kind of knowledge
or understanding of knowing your numbers.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Or what it
means to have high cholesterol
or have diabetes mm-hmm.
Or have hypertension.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: All those things.
I was walking around with
it, but I didn't know.
What any of it can do
to you or none of it.
It wasn't even a thought, you know, even
like borderline walking around, having
strokes, light strokes or whatever, not.
Even thinking about how dangerous
it really was, and then once
those, the information and the
data was collected, and it was
showed that if I just simply walk
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Like
more and drink water.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Have wisdom, have
willpower, a lot of Ws, you know?
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Put God first to say that this is what I
need to be doing, help help me through it.
Like, help me to fight the edges
of wanting to, uh, eat the wrong
foods or do the wrong thing.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, it was more or less like I
went to having one cheat day a week for.
A matter of a course of maybe three
or four years, it was one cheat day a
week that I would take and just say,
I'm, I'm going to eat smaller portions.
I'm gonna eat healthy.
I'm gonna take out a lot of soda, A lot
of, uh, things that you're not supposed to
do that we don't think about as black men.
Yeah.
Like, you know, do you know
how cheap it is to get.
Value meal from McDonald's.
Melicia Witt-Glover: I do.
It's super cheap.
And so I was gonna ask
you, how hard was that?
'cause you did like a whole overhaul
and it sounds like you had a way
of living, you had your routines
and you had to change everything.
Did you have to learn how to cook?
Did you I
Arthur “AJ” Johns: had
to learn how to cook.
I had to learn
Melicia Witt-Glover: how to,
how'd you learn how to cook?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: I had to, well,
I knew how to cook, but I had to
learn how to cook and say that
this is the right way to cook.
Okay.
The way I knew how to cook
was not the right way.
I knew how to fry chicken.
I knew how to make macaroni and cheese.
Right.
Really, really macaroni and
cheese, like, you know, I knew
how to do all the things that,
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Would give you
that weight that you don't want.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Right.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Or, you
know, the comfort meal.
Like, I can put you to
sleep right after you eat.
Melicia Witt-Glover: So you had to, so
you had to learn something different.
So did you, did the program
include cooking classes?
Did you use YouTube?
What did you do?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Yeah, chef.
Uh,
Melicia Witt-Glover: we'll get it.
I don't,
Arthur “AJ” Johns: I'll
get it in a second.
Yeah.
But he, uh, started doing.
Classes where he was talking about
this olive oil and asparagus and uh,
Melicia Witt-Glover: okay,
Arthur “AJ” Johns: the roasted this and
Melicia Witt-Glover: okay.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: I was like, man,
I'm not eating none of that stuff.
Like, you know, I want
Melicia Witt-Glover: some food.
So what?
So that's a, that's a lot.
So a lot of people get stuck
with, I'm not eating that stuff.
So, did you.
Did that give you an opportunity
to taste things that you
wouldn't have normally tasted?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Yes, because
I said, remember the wisdom
had a lot to do with it too.
Okay.
I was like, why am I continuously
doing things that I know is
not correct or not right?
Or eating so much of, you know,
fried chicken can't be this good
or fried fish all the time, it
just can't be this good, you know?
Ailton: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And I was
saying, instead of me just.
You know, doubting something that
I know would work if I tried it.
It shows in the numbers,
it shows in the data.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And if I just
try to change to do these things,
and like I said, it was hard for
me when I tried to go seven days
a week doing everything right.
That's hard on most people.
So I just allowed myself to say,
I'm allowed one day to cheat.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yep.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And on that
one day when I first started
cheating, it was horrible.
Like people was like, what are you doing?
You know, like, you walk, what are
you, what are you eating that for?
Like why are you drinking that?
Yeah.
And you gotta have three sodas,
you know, on your teeth day.
But that was at first, and then
all of a sudden got better.
It just clicked in me that.
Don't, don't do this.
Just do something different you Easter
and try to do something that, you know,
doing what's uh right sometimes is hard.
Mm-hmm.
Or most times it's hard.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: But the outcome
from it of anything, the outcome
from it is always the reward.
Like that's the main thing that we don't
think about as men or as people alone.
Every time when I can see my son to
say as much as I. Sometime want to
sock him for being a 14-year-old kid.
But I look at him and I said, thank you,
God, that it allowed me to see that I
needed to get that weight off of me.
Yeah.
And I needed to be here for him.
You know, as you don't know what,
how long we have or what we have.
That's
Melicia Witt-Glover: right.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: And when we offer it
to our families or to our loved ones.
That's when you start
talking about your legacy.
Yeah.
Of what you're trying to leave behind.
So a lot of people think legacy is money,
but health is way more than wealth.
So you help easy.
Well,
Melicia Witt-Glover: your, your story
is incredible and you, um, you, uh,
did an amazing job in the competition.
'cause you, like I said, the, the
years that I was doing the evaluation,
your name was always the one that
was getting called at the top.
And I, I believe your full story
is, um, we'll put a link to it
'cause you told your full story,
uh, on, uh, the storyline.
So we'll,
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: yes,
Melicia Witt-Glover: we'll put a
link to that in the show notes.
But I wanna, um, just focus
on something you said.
And, and Alton, I want,
I wanna ask you this.
Um, AJ you said it, it
took wisdom and willpower.
That was one of the strongest things.
And, and you were really trying to
think about why, why am I doing this?
I know these things are not, are, are
not what I'm supposed to be doing.
Why am I doing this?
It seems to me that, that, that a part of
that is connected to, to mental health.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Mm-hmm.
Melicia Witt-Glover: And mental
willpower and mental health.
Absolutely.
And so, Alton, I wanna ask you, um, can
you talk about just mental health and,
and black masculinity and, and, and
the hidden costs of untreated mental
health conditions among black men?
Can you talk about, uh, we're
gonna switch gears a little bit.
Can you just talk a little
bit about mental health?
Ailton: Yes, well, a majority
of in the black community, black
male community, a lot of our.
Mental health issues are undiagnosed.
Mm-hmm.
And that's because black
men actually don't have been
trained not to seek out help.
Right.
So we've been trained in our life
that, um, no one will come and
save us, that we have to count on
ourselves in order, um, to make it.
Um, and to be weary of others, right?
It's a very strong part of
our community that says for us
to keep our issues in house.
And again, this goes back to historical
issues where if people found out
about problems that went on in the
house, they may take your children.
Mm-hmm.
They may take you.
Right.
You may be institutionalized.
Mm-hmm.
You may be put, and that may be a mental
facility or it could be the penal system.
Mm-hmm.
And so for a lot of black men, uh,
we've grown up with a history of
understanding these, uh, aspects of,
uh, structural racism that occurs.
And so we've learned to lean on self.
And because of this, um,
we don't seek out help.
Um, and some people may say,
we've been taught that seeking
out health is a sign of weakness.
I disagree with that.
I think that what has happened
is we've been taught that
seeking out health is dangerous.
Mm. And so we don't seek it out.
And I mean, you can see
this from day to day.
Again, I give you the example
'
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman:
cause we're talking about weight.
There, you know, in recent history
we have examples of larger black
men having mental health issues and
the police being called for help.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman:
And instead of them receiving
help, they've been killed.
Ailton: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: And so
those stories, why this is when we, when
we think about our collective memory
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: These
stories that have been circulating
since social media has started mm-hmm.
Isn't the first time these
stories have been circulating.
It's just the first time
we've had digital proof of
Ailton: Mm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: These,
these stories about, uh, my uncle,
they called the police because my
uncle need help and the police shot
him, or they called my older brother
or help from my older brother and he
got shot, or my grandfather got shot.
These stories have been circulating
within our communities for a long time.
Yeah.
As a collective memory.
It's just now that we can visualize it.
So what happens is, is that when
there's time that we need to seek out
help for mental fitness, our immediate
goal is, well, don't go towards the
system because the system in danger.
Ailton: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: And so
that's one of the leading issues.
Now, when we think about the overall,
uh, structural society, there are a
lot of things that are plaguing us.
I mean, AJ gave the example of.
You know, that's fast food restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
Well, we're inundated with negative
marketing towards our community.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Right.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: So
whether that's smoking, drinking fast
food, fast living, lottery tickets,
you know, financial instability.
Mm-hmm.
Car stuff, uh, pay now, you know,
pay later, cash out, whatever do you
think has been, uh, focused towards
us, and then maybe get caught in
the native aspect, whether that.
Gambling, they can ubstance
order, um, financial distress.
Then the resources to come out
of those hanging aren't there.
And as I said before, because we've
been taught that seeking healthy dangers
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman:
They don't have any resources
seeking court one another.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
And
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: so what he
will start to see is when brothers find
or win black man foreign, um, partner.
Whether they're romantic partners
or um, onic partners, see, they
feel like they, they're faithful.
Like you'll see those
trouble speaking behaviors.
Mm-hmm.
So, with me and AJ has been
bored for 10 years and, you know,
he comes to me, he was like,
Ailton: yo, bro, I see you looked
a little bit down what's going on.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman:
Then I can feel comfortable
sharing my experience with aj.
He may have some knowledge about
what's going on, and then be able
to hack me through the problem.
So I think within, within our community,
masculinity allowed for us to seek help
in is death that we've been taught.
Ailton: Yeah.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Right.
And we have learned that seeking help and
for black men in danger, and this may not
be the same, uh, issue for other groups.
You know, some groups can call
the police and cry and the
police would call to save them.
Uh, we, we could be, we
could literally be screaming.
I can't breathe.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman:
And the police will continue
to try to oppress that,
Melicia Witt-Glover: that this is, that.
That is, that is powerful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And it's a good segue into, um, the,
the last thing I wanna ask you about
before we, before we close out, is
around community and connection.
Um, so, so aj, I know you went through
the Village Heartbeat program and you
were with your church family, but you also
had a close friend, Bishop Wade Ferguson,
who's a pastor in Charlotte, who, um.
Really was supportive.
And then, um, we've talked about churches
and barbershops and, and other spaces.
And so I want both of you,
I'm gonna start with aj.
I want you to talk about what, what
role did some of these supporters
play in helping you to, uh, on
your health, uh, health journey?
And then, um, Alton, I
want you to end with, um.
Uh, just very brief 'cause we're
almost outta time, but what makes
these spaces so effective in terms
of intervening on black men's health?
So AJ starting with you,
what, how did they help you?
Arthur “AJ” Johns: I will
be, uh, really brief with it.
Those are the entities
that you spoke about.
They helped, they triggered, they started
it, but the Council of Black Health.
Oh, it's continuing.
Oh, it's, thank you.
It's ongoing all the time.
And I enjoy, like I just received, uh,
my, uh, bag that I carry all the time.
Uhhuh
Melicia Witt-Glover: Uhhuh,
Arthur “AJ” Johns: my tote bag
with the Council of Black Health.
I have my shirts on all the time.
So I am an ambassador with the Council
of Black Health, and I enjoy saying
it to people because they right
away say, well, you only deal with
people that's black for their health.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mainly that's what I'm
into because we've been.
Treated so unfairly.
Yes.
And you know the process, like
the food deserts, the, yeah.
Different things.
So when I put it together, as
far as how it concerns from me
to connect to the community,
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: It's a wonderful
thing because now that I feel like as I'm
getting myself together, I'm getting the
chance to serve others that were in the
same situation that I was in or worse.
And it's by like action by deep.
Mm-hmm.
When they look at me and they're
saying, it feels really good.
I've gotten past the fact of
losing over 260 something pounds.
That is amazing.
People look at me and they're
just like saying, wow, you
know, I gotta hear your story.
I gotta know how you did it because I.
Seen how you once were and I've
never been a bad person to anyone.
Like I've always had care and concern.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: But I just didn't have
that same care and concern for myself.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: As now
that I'm able to give.
For myself as well as for the community.
So I'm, yeah.
Uh, president of the A ME Zion Men's uh,
boosters for 20 different, uh, churches
in the Charlotte Piedmont District.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: I'm also, uh, you
know, I have the radio station that
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: That's
where Mr. Nonstop comes from.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Uhhuh,
Arthur “AJ” Johns: and it's not
an introduction again, but like I
said, the Council of Black Health.
Every day that I go to work, I talk
to somebody about it, to tell 'em
like, this is why I'm doing what
I'm doing to give to our people.
Melicia Witt-Glover: And we, we
appreciate you being an ambassador.
And what I, what I hear the
thread is you started out and you,
you, because you were a part of.
Something where you were getting
your own numbers for your health
that encouraged you to move on.
I heard you say earlier that on
your cheat days you had some people
that were checking in with you
saying, Hey, what are you doing?
Mm-hmm.
So you had that kind
of support from people.
Bishop Ferguson.
I, I see you rolling with Bishop
Wade Ferguson all the the time.
So I know he's checking in
with you to make sure you're
doing well with your health and
Arthur “AJ” Johns: he still does.
Yeah, definitely.
Melicia Witt-Glover: And he still does.
And so you're definitely
with churches and you are.
You incorporate your health messaging, it
sounds like, into a lot of the things that
you do, including your work with veterans,
including on the radio, including, I
know you have set up opportunities for
the council to come when you're coaching
kids in basketball to do a health
segment during basketball tournaments.
Yes, and so what I, what
I appreciate most is how.
You didn't just keep this
information to yourself.
You are a spiritual man.
And when they say run and tell you,
you are running and telling it.
Yes.
And making sure that everybody knows.
So appreciate you.
Uh, Alton, I'm gonna end with you.
Talk about how these kinds of
spaces really helps specifically
for black men's health, churches,
barbershops, brotherhood spaces.
How are they effective?
Why can't they just come to the
stuff with, with the women, you
don't, y'all act like we're gonna
overtalk y'all or something.
What's going on?
Ailton: Well, I, I think it's important
to recognize there are differences, right?
Between men and women and, you know,
those differences are historical,
they're societal, they're social.
Um, some people may say there are
spiritual differences that occur
and how, uh, people of different
genders interact with one another.
Mm-hmm.
And having safe spaces in which people can
be their authentic selves without feeling
that they're gonna be judged is important.
I would always tell people that as we are
looking at spaces for black men as far as
mental, physical, financial, spiritual,
and social health, is that the first thing
we have to do is define what health means
for us, what masculinity, how manhood
means for us without looking at the other.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Right.
Ailton: So sometimes this means that,
you know, when AJ gives me a dap,
that DAP means as much to me as a hug.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Ailton: Right?
A lot of people forget that in our
community, dapping one another came out
of the black experience from Vietnam.
Dr. Ailton Santonio Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Ailton: And DAP actually
means dignity and pride.
When the brother put his pound on top of
yours, it means I'm not better than you.
When you he put his on top
of mine, it means I'm not.
He's not better than me.
And then when we tap it
together, it means we're equal.
Every time a brother gives another brother
adapt, he's giving him dignity and pride
in saying, I'm not better than you.
You're not better than me.
We're equal.
And so understanding our culture,
understanding how, how different
symbols reach and develop within
our culture, um, then allows us
to have these healthy spaces.
The reason why I give this
example about Dapping is that.
Dapping, and we've seen it on
presidential, uh, against uh,
uh, president Obama where when
he dap Michelle, people was
like, oh, look at this here.
You have to remember that during the
Vietnam War, dapping was outbound.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm.
Ailton: Because black vets
would dap one another.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Ailton: Right?
Mm-hmm.
And so they thought it was a secret
code and it just promoted what?
Health and mental wellness within
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Ailton: Black men.
So it's really important that
we not only know the history.
That we continue to pass along
to the, to the next generation.
And to have these spaces where we feel
like we can be ourselves and develop
our culture and our history together.
Melicia Witt-Glover: That is amazing.
Uh, uh, for people that are listening.
I don't know how many people knew
the history of Dapping, so that,
that right there just opens up.
I, I wish we had more time 'cause
I have so many other questions
and I'm like, oh man, we're gonna
have to have you all come back on.
Um.
As we end.
My one last thing, and I want
you, you can only give one
thing and it has to be quick.
What is one piece of advice for black men
who are starting their own health journey?
That they can start right now?
One concrete thing, like they could
start doing or stop doing right now?
Um, to be able to move themselves
toward thriving in health.
Um, Alton, I'm gonna go with you first.
Gimme one, one quick thing
and then AJ I'll end with you.
Ailton: So the first thing I would say
is to develop a sense of love, right?
Black wellness is love.
So number one, love yourself.
When you, when you start the journey,
say, I love myself and I'm doing
this so I can be a better me, and
then express that love outward.
So sometimes that means finding
a brother or a group of brothers
or a sister who you feel like.
Can be in the journey with you,
hold you accountable, but also
encourage you to celebrate the wins.
So once we have, once we start sharing
this love within our community, of
course our health is gonna get better.
Melicia Witt-Glover: That's good.
That's good.
Thank you.
And AJ, one thing that people can do.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Be intentional.
Be intentional.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Be intentional.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Don't everything
that you do, just be intentional.
Melicia Witt-Glover: So
don't just let things happen.
Don't just don't do it on be.
Be intentional.
Intentional.
Do it on purpose.
Arthur “AJ” Johns: Yeah.
Have a purpose.
Intentional.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Don't
just go to McDonald's.
Be intent if you go and say
it with your whole chest.
Intentional.
Be intentional.
Yeah.
And that'll make you Got you, got you.
This has been amazing.
You two are amazing.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you, uh, to Dr. Alton Coleman and
AJ Johns for helping us reimagine what
health can look like when black men are
supported, seen, and given space to heal.
To our listeners, your health
doesn't have to start with a crisis.
It can start with a walk, a conversation,
or a single decision to care for yourself.
For more resources, visit council bh.org.
Be sure to subscribe and tune in
for future episodes as we explore
different dimensions of wellbeing.
I'm Dr. Militia Whit Glover.
Thanks for listening to
re-Imagining Black Health.