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14:09: [Maya Pomroy] So what brought you to Houston? Was it MD Anderson that brought you to Houston?
14:35: [Shalini Yadav] When I got an opportunity, again grateful to the PCF Young Investigator Award that I got, this network of people that I met, and through that, I was able to connect with Dr. Allison, and it, again, serendipitously, happened that he, looking at my expertise and things that I had done, said, “Would you like to do this work, which is a lot of scientific management and administrative?” [15:06] I thought, okay, as long as I found it interesting and exciting, because, again, I was handling multiple stakeholders and trying to work with multiple pharmaceutical companies, different departments, different kinds of experts, working together with all of them to handle a scientific problem, which will actually help to learn something new. So that was very satisfying to do that.
32:42: I would like to say that scientists in general are passionate about what they do. It's the leap that you have to take that overcome, and your perspective changes after MBA. I never had this perspective. The way I understand things now are completely different than I would have done two years back.
33:18: So if community matters to you and if you're bothered by things around you, which you want to change and you think with this you cannot. I think taking that leap where you will learn things, which I think basically as a scientist, our training as graduate students, or even medical studies, we are taught to be very focused. So having to come out of that shell and embrace this bigger picture and having the strength to think about what impact I can have because if you understand both sides of it, what you can think of achieving, you won't get it if you are just on one side of things.
11:35: When you bring diverse expertise together, the solutions that come out have way more value and are more impactful than what you can achieve alone. So bridging this gap was not something that I was looking for, but I serendipitously got into a position where I just did what was needed, which gave me a very different perspective of what scientific research can achieve in terms of, if you understand the problems which people are actually facing, then your solutions can be tailored, or you can design proposals to address those problems.
Owl Have You Know is Rice Business’ podcast created to share the experiences of alumni, faculty, students and other members of our business community – real stories of belonging, failing, rebounding and, ultimately, succeeding. During meaningful conversations, we dive deep into how each guest has built success through troubles and triumphs before, during and after they set foot in McNair Hall.
The Owl Have You Know Podcast is a production of Rice University Jones Graduate School of Business and is produced by University FM.
[00:00] Maya: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path Series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.
A devoted scientist, innovator, and leader of Rice University's Synthetic Biology Institute, our guest on Owl Have You Know is a 2024 Executive MBA graduate, devoted to driving the synthetic biology industry into the future.
Shalini Yadav's commitment and dedication to transforming healthcare took on a bolder meaning when she chose to add MBA to her list of impressive accomplishments. She talks to us about her upbringing, fascinating work in fighting disease, and her belief that every step in her journey, including those wild risks, has led her to exactly where she needs to be.
Welcome, Shalini Yadav. Thank you for taking the time to share with us your remarkable flight path and dedication to science and research over the last 22 years. You have a bachelor's degree in biology, a master's in biotechnology, a Ph.D. in cellular and molecular biology, and now an Executive MBA. So, do you have space on your wall for all of these accomplishments, Shalini?
[01:20] Shalini: First, Maya, thank you for having me on the show. Well, this is my last degree, for sure.
[01:26] Maya: The famous last words.
[01:29] Shalini: Yeah, I mean, it just happened. I mean I enjoy the process of learning and the kind of person I am, if I have a structured way of doing things, I like doing it that way. And in terms of wall, I think I can accommodate in my office.
[01:47] Maya: You just need a bigger office with bigger walls.
[01:49] Shalini: Yeah. But Texas is the right place to have that kind of office.
[01:54] Maya: That's right. You have served as an associate director of research planning and development at MD Anderson Cancer Center, leading the multidisciplinary teams in translational cancer research. That was your former position. And you are now in a role as the executive director of Rice University’s Synthetic Biology Institute, leading innovation research initiatives, fostering collaboration across disciplines, which is what you have dedicated multiple decades in doing. Congratulations on your new role.
[02:25] Shalini: Thank you.
[02:26] Maya: And I'd love to dive in and ask you specifically about the institute and the groundbreaking research happening at Rice. But first, I'm curious about what made you interested in pursuing science and what inspired you to pursue a career in biotechnology?
[02:43] Shalini: Well, I think, right from the beginning, as a child and when I was growing up, my interest was always… I was fascinated by how our body fights infections or any kind of foreign invasion. And that fascinated me, that world of microbes, bacteria, viruses, and how are we able to fight them or how are they able to outsmart us? You know, like, we do get infected. And that was like, I always wanted to be in the field of science. And I came from a, not a very big town, a small town in India, and it's called Allahabad. Its name has been changed; now, it's called Prayagraj. So, it's a very holy city. So, basically, even coming from there just to a big city, the capital of India, New Delhi, was a big step for me and my conservative family to let me go and study and do my master's in biotechnology.
The motivation was the same. I got into the program. It was a competitive program. You have to get into it through an exam. And after that, there was no looking back because so many opportunities opened up after that. I was able to come to the United States because of my education there. I landed up in Stony Brook University. And it was an amazing experience. My graduate school studies were probably one of the best parts when I came to a foreign country first time and ever traveled, actually.
[04:05] Maya: Really? So, wait a second. So, let's back up. So, your first time going to an international… you know, your international travel was coming to Stony Brook, New York?
[04:14] Shalini: Yes, it was crazy. I still remember. And as I said, I came from a very conservative and protected kind of environment. So, for me, to take that step and get my dad's support to do that was a big thing. But it was a crazy ride to Stony Brook. I still remember, you know, like, I almost passed out because I had so many vaccines before coming, and I was not well. But the driver was, really, I think, a nice guy. He dropped me at the international relations office. Then, I realized that I don't have a graduate housing and they were going to put me in an undergrad dorm or something.
[04:50] Maya: And you had nowhere to live.
[04:51] Shalini: Yes, in a foreign country. It was crazy. I was like, “Oh, my God, what will I do now?” But, you know, I did not go to the dorm because some of my friends told me, “Oh, no, no, no, don't go to the dorm. You'll get a shock.” So, but then, I got a housing. They fixed it very soon. So, I was able to manage, but it was an adventure.
[05:10] Maya: And that's where you got your Ph.D., was at Stony Brook?
[05:14] Shalini: Yes, in Stony Brook University, with a great, great mentor.
[05:17] Maya: Did you come from a family of people that were biologists and scientists? Or was this something, were you, sort of, like an anomaly in your family?
[05:28] Shalini: One of my uncles was a scientist. Basically, a scientist means a psychologist. But my dad was well-educated. They were all in government jobs in India, most of my family. So, that was the background. I was the only one who was interested in science and, like, my brothers, they're all engineers.
[05:44] Maya: You, sort of, briefly mentioned that you were curious about microbes and infection. And was there something in your childhood or in your life that made you curious? Was it like a book or something that you saw? Or, what was that catalyst for you?
[06:00] Shalini: Well, infectious diseases affect, not in United States, but if you live in a country like India, I have seen, like, in the village where my roots are, people would not really know why they are getting, like, dysentery or typhoid. And, you know, there were problems there, which I was seeing as a child growing up. And I was like, “Why there are no solutions,” or, “How does this happen? How do we fight infections?” There were no specific incidents that I can remember that made me curious. Maybe, in the school, the teachers who taught me science made me interested in this field, is all I can think of. But that was always the question that I had, when somebody would get sick, I would be like, “Oh, why did this happen? Why we are not able to get this person better? And what's going on in the body, why we're not able to fight that infection?”
[06:50] Maya: Well, how fortuitous was that? Because now, we have you in this field and really, sort of, changing the field. I was reading about some incredible things that you did. Part of your postdoctoral work at the Rockefeller University led to the discovery of a host cell restriction factor for HIV. And I am not a scientist, but it's the MX2. So, you got your Ph.D. at Stony Brook, and then what?
[07:17] Shalini: Then, I started looking for places where I can do this kind of work, to understand, what is natural defense mechanisms? And I was restricted to New York at that time due to my family. So, I was like, “Okay, I will look in and around New York.” And one of the labs that I was interested in was a retrovirology lab, and I loved the projects that I would be doing, so I decided to go for studying HIV.
And I also, at that time, I was also not sure whether I will be in the U.S. or go back. And HIV looked like an area which would help me. If I ever decided to go back, I wanted to be in a field where I'm studying some infectious diseases or viruses. So, that was a good option. And I took it up, and it was really a great time and fun things that I did at that time was awesome, because being in a good lab with a good PI makes a lot of difference. And I was, at that time, using robots to do things because my project needed that kind of work, was awesome because you have to learn how to use it, how to program it, and how to scale down your work actually to that small scale.
So, it was a lot of fun. And believe it or not, that's why I really like… this thing attracted me because a lot of things that I did in my Ph.D., as well as postdoc, this is the future that is emerging. That attracted me to this position, actually, because I have the background to understand why it's going, where it's going, and what can happen next.
[08:48] Maya: Tell me about this MX2 host cell. I'm very, very curious about that, because like I said, I don't have a background in science as much as my whole family wishes that I did, but I don't. So, tell me about this.
[09:00] Shalini: So, basically, MX2 is a protein, right? It's a protein. And it is found in human cells, mostly, cells which are in the body and they help in fighting infections. They are called macrophages. That's one of the main cell types which expresses this protein. And the way it works is that, what we discovered, we screened the entire repertoire of genes which can be involved in restriction factors and then discovered this factor. But basically, it's a protein which will prevent HIV from entering the nucleus. So, it stops the life cycle of the virus. So, you can imagine that, if you understand how it works, you can design ways to… new drugs to basically prevent infection with HIV.
[09:48] Maya: That's fascinating that you were able to discover this. And you went on then to Weill Cornell Medical College and started doing prostate cancer research. Tell me about the jump into that.
[10:02] Shalini: I had my kids. And New York, as you know, is quite an expensive city to live, and, at that time, I, with me and my husband and the kids and the wait line for getting decent daycare. I had to take some time off, just to manage that time, and my visa status didn't allow me to go part time. So, at that time, I stopped for six months. And then, when I wanted to start again, I could have gone back, but I also, serendipitously, like, I met this surgeon and I moved into translational research because I was always interested in new technologies or innovation.
And in this case, my thought process was that I was getting to do single cell genomics in a setting which I thought is also very relevant for HIV research if you wanted to use it in a country like India or other places. So, I thought this looks like a perfect setup where I get to build this setup in Weill Cornell, going to Cold Spring Harbor with a very big group of, who are experts in single nucleus sequencing. Dr. Mike Bigler, I thought, okay, let's do this and see how it goes.
And that changed my perspective completely because I was just a basic biologist interested in how this thing works, to, “Oh, my God, there's so many problems which patients are facing.” And we, as basic biologists, what can we do to bridge this gap between clinical and translational research and basic research? And can we find solutions? Because when you bring…what I have learned in my career so far, when you bring diverse expertise together, the solutions that come out have way more value and are more impactful than what you can achieve alone.
So, bridging this gap was not something that I was looking for, but I serendipitously got into a position where I just did what was needed. That gave me a very different perspective of what scientific research can achieve, in terms of, if you understand the problems, which actually people are facing, then your solutions can be tailored, or you can design proposals to address those problems.
And that's exactly what I did over there — took a problem in prostate cancer and tried to see if we can develop better diagnostic tools to diagnose prostate cancer or differentiate aggressive form of prostate cancer from an indolent form of prostate cancer.
[12:29] Maya: And you recognized the importance of teams and the structure of teams and how that's really integral to moving forward and to making these sorts of discoveries. It's that diverse perspective, sort of, like a silver bullet, so to speak.
[12:44] Shalini: Yes, exactly. Before that, I was collaborating right from my PhD, I would say, because the lab, I was working, all my projects were in collaboration with Dr. Vendilem, who's a well-known synthetic biologist. And we were working together at that time. But the basic tenet of seeing how a clinical setup versus basic biologists versus computational scientists or radiologists and pathologists, what can we do collectively together to solve a patient-specific-centric problem was something that was… that just happened to me, to understand that, that way it can be done.
And I also got a chance to build certain things. And I realized I enjoy doing that. So, that was something that I didn't know I can do and I will like it, but I loved it, you know, from scratch, if I had to build things and that was a lot of fun.
[13:39] Maya: Well, you were stretching yourself, which seems to be the thread throughout your entire life, is that you just keep on stretching yourself. “I don't know how to do it, but I'm going to figure it out. Like, I don't have anywhere to live, but I'm going to figure it out.” And that's really an important piece of character, literally, coming from India for the first time to a completely foreign place and just doing what you got to do.
[14:03] Shalini: If thrown into a situation, I'll just figure it out.
[14:06] Maya: Right. Sink or swim, and you're not going to sink.
[14:09] Shalini: Yes.
[14:11] Maya: So, what brought you to Houston? Was it MD Anderson that brought you to Houston?
[14:14] Shalini: Yes, believe it or not, getting a chance to work with Dr. Jim Allison is an opportunity. I'm grateful to him and the opportunity that I got, again, because you're moving to a field, which is immunology, like, your body's immune system and how you can develop therapies that can help you fight cancer, in this case. I was naturally inclined in that direction. So, then, I got an opportunity. Again, grateful to the PCF Young Investigator Award that I got, that I got this network of people that I met. And through that, I was able to connect with Dr. Allison. And it, again, serendipitously, it happened that he, looking at my expertise and things that I had done, he said, “Would you like to do this work, which is a lot of scientific management and administrative?” Again, I thought, okay, as long as…I found it interesting and exciting, because again, I was handling multiple stakeholders and trying to work with multiple pharmaceutical companies, different departments, different kinds of experts, working together with all of them to handle a scientific problem, which will help, actually, to learn something new, either in understanding the disease etiology or actually bringing first in human compounds to help cancer patients who do not have any other options.
So, that was very satisfying to do that. It just happened that it was too good. Learning from Dr. Allison's group and their team, it was an amazing experience because it broadened my perspective of many, many different things. So, it was a very good experience. And I think it helped me grow in terms of how I would manage different things.
[15:58] Maya: You mentioned Dr. Jim Allison. It was an award that you won. Was that how you made the connection or…
[16:06] Shalini: Again, like in my Executive MBA, I realized how important networking is. I was not networking a lot when I moved here because I was so focused on my work. When I was in Mount Sinai, I had written a proposal and I had done the Young…Prostate Cancer Foundation's Young Investigator Award for doing prostate cancer research that I was talking about, like, how to differentiate indolent versus aggressive prostate cancer.
And there, the other young investigators that I met, through them, I got connected here. So, those connections brought me here.
[16:38] Maya: So, you were at MD Anderson for how many years before you decided, “You know what? I think I need to go get my MBA?”
[16:44] Shalini: I was in MD Anderson for six years, but it took me time to make this decision. I wouldn't lie. I wanted to do an MBA for a long time. I think I knew I will do an MBA, but I waited because my kids were smaller and I wanted them to be at a stage when I'm ready. And then, in my work, also, I wanted to feel that, is this the direction I want to go? Because there were always two paths—you can go into scientific administration management, seeing the big picture and implementing that strategically, or you could do research and go back. So, for me, I was at the crossroads. Like, after COVID, you know, COVID changed a lot of things. And for me, it made me decide which direction I wanted to take.
[17:28] Maya: That was a time that I think a lot of people were very introspective, people were on the fence. I think that COVID really solidified some folks’ decisions of what's important, what do I want to do? Why do I want to do it? And yes, I'm going to do this now.
[17:44] Shalini: Yeah, for me, that was the phase, because even though I'm very fortunate that I got a chance to work, even in the COVID phase, we were in lockdown, but just, the question that came from the leadership was, how will we study? How is COVID impacting cancer patients? Nothing existed again, right?
[18:01] Maya: Right.
[18:01] Shalini: Because how will you do that? How will you protect your employees who will work with these? First, can we collect these samples? How will we collect these blood samples? And no infrastructure existed. And what will we do with it later? And how will we convince the employees and, also, in terms of regulatory bodies, how will we convince them? And again, because I've worked with viruses before, even though we didn't know anything about COVID at that time, how will we inactivate it, think about it, and then, give papers or other studies to support what we are doing will work?
And it was a bad time, but it was a good time, in a sense, because I got involved in building all these infrastructures to do that. And it has opened up many new projects, right? Because once you have a collection of samples, new questions arise, and then new fields of studies have started in that area.
So, it was very satisfying to see that, but it was also a time to think about… I started thinking about policies and other things like, how can we influence something which will benefit the whole society? And how can you be the changemaker? And for me, to reach there, I felt I needed an MBA. And I went and talked to Jim and I said that I want to do this MBA. And he supported me. He said, “Sure, you should do this, if you think that's what you want to do and it'll make you happy.”
[19:22] Maya: Nobody tried to talk you out of it?
[19:25] Shalini: My brother did. My younger brother was like, “You're crazy. You already have a Ph.D., you don't need an MBA.” But he's in India, but we always had this relationship. We are pulling each other's legs. So, he's like, “Okay, now, you're the crazy scientist going on a crazy rant of doing this.” But I was really passionate. I'm very grateful that, you know, my kids, my family, my husband, everybody supported me. And my workplace also supported the efforts. And I made amazing, amazing community here in Rice with the EMBA group that I had. It was an amazing experience.
[20:00] Maya: Let's talk about that amazing experience because we're both EMBAs and you actually started the year that I graduated. So, I was done in 2022, and you started in 2022. Once you decided, because you said you always… this is something that you always knew you wanted to do. So, when you decided to apply, tell me about that process. How old were your children at this time? Because you said that a lot of it, a lot of it does have to do with the support of your professional network, your personal network, your family, your friends, because it is. It's a leap.
[20:31] Shalini: Yeah. My daughter was 10, and my son was, at that time, 13. They were very supportive. I remember in the beginning, I remember like my seniors would say, “Survive till Halloween, you'll be fine.” I remember going home and I’d say, “I'm going quit, I can't do this.” And those two were like, “You can do it. Definitely, you can do it, mama. And mama, you have to do this.” And, you know, so I was like, “Okay.”
So, I had a very big support system in my family to do that. That was their age, and they were ready to let me explore this. And good things came out of it. Like, my daughter became very independent, which I actually do not like now.
[21:18] Maya: Absolutely, independence is a good thing all around. If your kids are independent, I mean, that's what you want. You want them to be able to fly without you. So, tell me about your time at Rice and about the experience that you had. What was the most fulfilling for you?
[21:33] Shalini: Rice’s Executive MBA was really life-changing for me. I really think that my perspective about almost everything changed. The biggest impact has been two. The one is, I've understood the importance of having discovered myself as a leader, what are my value systems, which I have to hold to work, to do anything, anything in life. And that clarity came through interactions with my cohort, through interactions with my peers, and some of my professors. Like, the amount of time they gave me and some classes that I did really made me think and made me find that footing of where I am and how I will move forward.
So, that clarity was very important. And second is that I always have worked in collaborative environments and teams, but having the broad perspective from diverse fields and to be able to work with all the different areas, my horizon of the way I think, see things, and visualize things. I was always a visual person. I think I'm a futurist, in a way.
[22:47] Maya: I like that. Futurist, I like it. That's one of the great joys, is that you get different flavors of people. You have Full-Time MBAs, you have Professional MBAs, you've got Online MBAs, you've got Executive MBAs, and everybody has such a unique and diverse perspective of where they are.
And what's interesting is that, you know, you started your journey at Rice, and now, you've transitioned into a phenomenal opportunity and have broadened your career by being a part of Rice. So, tell me about how that transition has been from being in, you know, the medical field to now being in academia.
[23:29] Shalini: It was a very organic transition. I don’t… like, I was in a very academic setting of basic research, moved into translational. It was not that I was specifically looking to move into this direction. It's just that this particular position attracted me so much, because working in the medical center and seeing all the problems that people were trying to solve, research problems, scientific questions we are trying to ask, I also realized that a point comes when innovations will happen in an academic setting, you know. Like, you reach a point you can do up to a certain extent, not because you're not capable, it's more got to do with what is your focus or priority, right?
As a clinician, your priority has to take care of your patients, and then you have a research group or support system. But the focus is always different, right? But to understand the depth of the biology and the problems that you're trying to solve, you need to have a different kind of passion. And I felt that passion and I know that. So, I know that major innovations that we need in the next 10 years or 20 years in medicine or other fields, whether it's, like, our whole society I'm talking about, whether it's a bio-economy, bio-manufacturing space.
All these things are very strong in Houston and all of them are waiting for breakthroughs. In my mind, those breakthroughs come in an academic research setting. And Rice is the place to do it, especially in synthetic biology. So, that was my attraction towards the position. And my background, serendipitously, it happened that my Ph.D. work was also doing something synthetic with older tools. At that time, it was not a field, established name field, but work was very similar. And it's a small world. Right now, I'm working with people probably where I was collaborating with those synthetic biologists for my Ph.D. And now, the lab people are Dr. Caleb Bashor is an assistant professor here and we are working together.
[25:32] Maya: So, a full circle.
[25:34] Shalini: A full circle, yes. And it's just amazing to just know that, you know, it's such a small world, to come back full circle and see how the field has grown and having the vision where we can take it. So, together with Caroline, who is the scientific director for the institute, all three of us talk a lot about it and how we'll move forward and how this will grow. And my main drive was that innovation attracts me, and I'm a builder by my DNA profile, I think. So, this was a perfect fit that way. And I'm always, like, being in a space where you are really doing breakthroughs. I felt stagnancy where I was before, and that's why I started my MBA, actually. And now, with the tool sets that I have to apply in a completely different setup, is really exciting.
[26:22] Maya: And fulfilling.
[26:23] Shalini: Very, very fulfilling, yes. Yeah, true. That's the reason. I'm passionate about what I do, and I'm really enjoying it right now. To be in an area to see what can be done and what the potential impact can be, if we are able to pull this off correctly.
[26:41] Maya: So, let's talk about synthetic biology because it's being heralded as the next scientific revolution. Can you talk about synthetic biology and its applications and the things that you're doing at Rice?
[26:54] Shalini: Sure. It is a field which brings together biology and engineering. Basically, you are using engineering principles to redesign biology. In a simple term, I would say, you are working with DNA to design solutions for the biggest challenges that are facing the world in different ways, using DNA as the material to do different things.
The simplest example, which I wish I can show you, but think of DNA as the building blocks in a Lego. And then, you can design it, build it, rebuild it into anything that is good for society and you want to do it and you want to make it. Anything, a beautiful picture, a beautiful… anything that will impact the world in a positive way, whether it is agriculture, biomanufacturing, or, obviously, medicine.
[27:48] Maya: Can you share some of the most exciting research that's happening right now?
[27:53] Shalini: There are many. First, I'll give you an example, which is probably one of the first ones, which is not from Rice, but it is important to understand that, probably, one of the first in bioproduct was artemisinin, which is, like, an anti-malarial drug, which is derived from plants. It used to depend on crops, right? Like, if the weather is bad and you do not have the harvest, you won't have enough to supply the world, and it's a major problem. Malaria is a major problem. Scientists were able to take the entire pathway for making artemisinin and transfer it into yeast. Like, you brew, right? Like, yeast you make bread. They were able to do that and make artemisinin, which can basically solve that problem of dependence on crops.
So, that's one of the examples. There was a McKinsey report a couple of years ago, I think, where they talked about, like, around 400 products, which probably are products of synthetic biology, not synthetic biology, per se, but products which are at a stage that can be commercialized and the potential impact in terms of dollars would be $4 trillion, probably.
It has a huge potential for commercialization as well, the products at this stage. I'm only talking about the products. One example is a drug, Sitagliptin, for diabetes. It is a synthetic biology-based product. It is a very successful drug, probably, ninth most prescribed drug.
[29:16] Maya: Is it for type 1 or type 2?
[29:18] Shalini: Type 2.
[29:19] Maya: Which is a lot more prevalent than type 1, if I'm not mistaken.
[29:21] Shalini: Yes. But in as far as Rice is concerned, we are very uniquely positioned because we have both a very strong microbial setup. Whereas, we have the world's best scientists working in this field. And then we also have the eukaryotic system where you have T-cell therapies and others. And we have scientists in that area as well. It's a great group of brilliant, brilliant scientists.
And an example I can give you is, one of the work that is going to come out is, you know, antibiotic resistance is a huge problem. It is going to grow in the next 10 years, where, probably, the number of people that will die of antibiotic resistance globally would probably increase more than 10 million. And there are no novel therapies.
[30:09] Maya: Do people know this? I mean, other than you, because you're in the field, but do people understand this?
[30:15] Shalini: Well, you can go to World Health Organization and other websites and you will be able to see these stats. But I am personally passionate about these things. So, I like… in my spare time, I like reading about these things, if that's geeky, I don't know, but, you know, I…
[30:32] Maya: It's okay to be geeky. I'm pretty geeky myself.
[30:35] Shalini: Yeah. So, it matters. And there are not a lot of novel solutions or therapies. Professor James Chappell, Joff Silberg, and Vicky Yao, and we are bringing a computational biologist and bioengineering and biosciences people together. Two are biosciences. So, they have come together and are trying to build RNA-based… like, the COVID vaccine was an mRNA vaccine… RNA-based antibiotics, which will be personalized. Like, right now, you take an antibiotic, it clears out of all your bugs in the body—good, bad.
[31:06] Maya: Even the good ones, yes. That’s why you have to eat yogurt to make sure that your stomach has all of those, yes, yes.
[31:12] Shalini: So, now, they have come up with an idea where they're going to use this engineering principle and synthetic biology to make targeted antibiotics, RNA-based.
[31:21] Maya: Fascinating.
[31:22] Shalini: Yeah. So, it will just kill the bad bacteria and spare others, if it works. And it's an amazing collaboration, and I'm proud to say that Synthetic Biology Institute at least initiated. We are all about building new collaborations, and this is one of the collaborations where we have given seed funds to start expanding this work.
[31:43] Maya: So, in order for all of these incredible innovations to make it to the marketplace, you really need to have a base in business and to understand all of the different components — the financials and the accounting and the marketing of it and the culture of the environment that you're in. So, having an opportunity to have the brilliant scientific background that you have, and also, the business expertise and prowess, it's really a very important and integral combination of the two.
So, I think there's lots of people out there that are brilliant scientists that, sort of, shy away from pursuing an MBA or, you know, being later on in their career and going for an executive MBA. So, what would you say to those that are listening, that are scientists, that, maybe, hadn't contemplated this yet? What would you say to them about jumping in and doing something like what you did?
[32:43] Shalini: I would like to say that scientists, in general, are passionate about what they do. And your perspective changes after MBA. I never had this perspective. The way I understand things now are completely different than I would have done two years back.
[32:57] Maya: 100%.
[32:58] Shalini: Basically, understanding the business aspect of things, because ultimately, even if you're making technologies, the biggest use of that technology will come if it is reaching people and helping. And if you do not have that perspective and you have the passion to do something which will have impact for the community in a way, right? So, if community matters to you and if you're bothered by things around you, which you want to change, and you think with this you cannot, I think taking that leap where you will learn things, which I think, basically, as a scientist, or in our training as graduate students or even medical studies, we are taught to be very focused. So, having to come out of that shell and embrace this bigger picture and having the strength to think about what impact I can have, because if you understand both sides of it, what you can think of achieving, you won't get it if you are just on one side of things.
So, for me, I like getting trained. That's why I thought of doing an MBA at that time. But I think, the amount of impact that you can have around you, it will broaden your horizon. To make yourself a better person, people around you better, and create a world which will be a better place. And in order for you to get there, I feel that doing a program like that requires just the first step.
[34:28] Maya: Yes.
[34:29] Shalini: We are all very trained to be hard workers, so that's not a problem. It's just taking that leap and believing that there is a bigger purpose to it. And that bigger purpose comes from understanding how it will impact what is happening around the world. And in your community in Houston, that matters to me because I feel that, what I stand for, Rice is here, but we are surrounded by very strong ecosystems or communities, like, whether it's Texas Medical Center, whether it's biomanufacturing, whether it's TMC Innovation or even Space Center, I think all of these can be leveraged and we can build a community to become a global leader or global hub for this, that's what is possible. And you can see that if you've done an MBA. That's what I'm trying to say. Before that, you can see one part, but now you can see, oh, my God, this is the impact that it will have if we are aligned and working together.
Yeah, I wanted to stand corrected that I have the figure right now for antibiotic resistance. I think, by 2050, the number of deaths would be 10 million.
[35:38] Maya: Wow.
[35:39] Shalini: So, that's huge. So, see, imagine the depth of problem I'm talking about in this case. And I can give you another example. Caroline is… like, kids get excited. We had a high school outreach, community outreach. So, some high school students came to our institute and they did lab work to get exposed to synthetic biology. They'd never even heard of the term. So, for them, it was awesome. But, like, one of the students that I saw the presentation, he worked in Dr. Caroline Ajo-Franklin's lab, where he was able to grow bugs or bacteria in a flask and then was able to generate electricity or light a bulb, LED bulb. Like, my kids do the experiment, right? Potatoes or lemon, you put two wires. And here, he was so excited to see that, you know, he can use bacteria, grow them, harvest those electrons and generate it at a small scale. But imagine the scope if we have the infrastructure where it can go.
[36:34] Maya: Lots of work to do, but so much optimism.
[36:37] Shalini: Exactly. It’s an exciting time to be in this field and to connect with like-minded people here and then move across boundaries.
[36:46] Maya: Yes. So, what's next for you? I know you, this is a new step, a new opportunity, but looking out 10 years, what do you hope to achieve?
[36:58] Shalini: Right now, the only focus I have is that, how can we become the hub, the place to be for synthetic biology? And I think the amount of time it will take is the time that you are talking about. Five to 10 years, I think that's the amount of time it'll need, if it really goes, as I think it will, or I plan to, means to become a hub, not only, like, if somebody says, “Okay, I want to do something in the synthetic world.” “Hey, Rice is the place. You should go there,” you know, or, you know, “Houston is the place.” The number of opportunities, the number of industries and academia-industry partnerships that can happen in the future.
So, for me, right now, my focus for the next five to six years is that. And if that succeeds, I don't know. I just know that it'll be something. Right now, my focus is just, will I get there?
[37:50] Maya: Something tells me you will. Well, it'll be great to catch up in a few years and see the progress. It's really been a pleasure. I learned so much in the short time that we had together. And thank you, Shalini, for taking the time to catch us up with what's going on in your world. We look forward to many more exciting developments and breakthroughs coming from Rice.
Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.