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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So Sanjay, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for taking the time.
So can you give us a top level view of what it is that you do right now and your journey
so far?
Yeah.
Hey, thanks so much for having me on the show.
Once again, my name is Sanjay Kaluval.
I'm the founder and CEO of Stonehouse Advisors.
So it's a consultancy focused on working with founders and businesses that are struggling
with cash flows.
I've kind of niched down to the AI space, helping them really to grow and scale their
business to the next level.
So if they're struggling with attracting and retaining customers, growing revenues,
operational excellence, and then also financial fitness in terms of
generating cash flows to fund the business for the next capital raise or for strategic
exit.
I'm also actually also launched a podcast designed to help AI founders and businesses grow
and scale their business too.
You know, it sounds very interesting.
I mean, how did you get into this space then or the business world?
Let's say like why do you make the pivot into running your own business?
Well, actually when I went to university, right, you know, the traditional Indian or Desi
track was engineering or medical, right, especially back in the days.
This was back in the 1990s, right?
There weren't a whole lot of people, you know, I'm based in Dallas, Texas in the U.S.
and there weren't a whole lot of people in business.
So that was a traditional track, but I took a business class and I was like, wow, business
really resonated with me.
And I decided that was really my strength that had some different permutations with the
parents, you know, some challenges especially, but.
I was able to go to that track, I got my master's in business.
And then I took a strategy class.
I was like, wow, I didn't realize that my mind is like more strategic mindset.
And that's my core strength is strategy.
So then out of business school, I went to work for a company called Ernst and Young
Management Consulting, doing business process transformation.
So how do you streamline operations, right?
Taking six month technology implementations down to 30 days.
And then later I left it for a company called Ericsson, which is global 500 company.
this strategy consulting.
So working with, as companies were launching 2G, 3G, 4G networks, that was all technology
based, but helping them, okay, how do you grow your market?
What's a go-to-market strategy to actually get users and revenue, basically?
Very cool.
I'd love to touch on like the early years, because I know when we first spoke, we spoke
about, know, growing up in Texas, you know, back then as well, like, how did you find
that, you know, coming from the Asian background, What challenges did you have around that
and then pivoting into the business space?
Yeah, no, I think, know, for those that don't know, my mom, she came in 1973.
She was a nurse, family's physician from Kerala.
And then I came later, a little bit, when I was about 22 months.
We came to New York.
Then that was the mid-70s, around 1975.
And then came to Texas, of all places, in 1978.
So it was kind of interesting.
You know, I went to public school first and kindergarten, but then...
when I went to private schools from first to basically high school, parochial schools,
then Catholic schools, et cetera.
So it was different because when I was growing up, people were like, okay, you're not
black and you're not Mexican.
What are you?
I said, I'm Indian.
And they're like, which tribe?
I'm like, no, not that, it's like India from, like, oh, I have a cousin from Indiana.
I was like, no, no, So even then people didn't know what that was.
mean, if you think about it, it's like first, second, third grade.
So it's not, but then, you I will say that,
I mean, I love growing up in America and I know there's a lot of perceptions out there,
but it's been a great place and there's always challenges, right?
Everything has its challenges, but I would say 99 % of the experience and people have been
great,
No, okay, that's good to hear.
And you've managed to go into, you what it is today in terms of the business side.
I mean, talking a little bit more about the go-to-market strategy that you're working on
in those kind of earlier years, what did that look like back then?
Because in terms of the marketing piece, right, I'm very much in the industry and the
go-to-market piece has been shifting so much, especially in the last like five years
itself.
So back then, what were you working on specifically to help grow these businesses?
Right.
So for one operator, when they were launching their 3G network, so we're doing consulting.
So we actually created something called a product.
It was like a marketing description.
So looking at, what's their target market?
Who's their target market?
What's the market size, the total available market, et cetera?
What are their pain points?
What they trying to solve?
And truly creating a document, instead of a business plan, just a marketing service
document that outlines what the product is, what the features are.
And then making sure that that really resonates with your target audience.
We'll also put a business case around that, et cetera.
And then we actually follow through on the market execution.
So you have to like train your salespeople, you have to train your channels.
And then also these are new devices.
Like back then there's like data cards and this is even before smartphones, right?
So people using data cards.
So there's an education awareness part of it.
So how do you educate your market to use that?
So right now I'm applying some of those concepts really in the AI space too, you know.
Hmm, no, no, definitely.
And then with the work you're doing now, why have you decided to niche down in the AI
space?
Like what opportunities or potential are you seeing there?
And what's your work around that?
Yeah, so I mean, if we look at different industries, starting with the industrial
revolutions in different ways as railroads and then information technology, et cetera,
then you see the internet coming about in the 90s, And I remember actually in the 2000,
around 2010, I did actually a program at Oxford in strategy and innovation, and they're
talking about technology innovation, how the railroads really
changed society and also that's what created immense wealth in the United States and then
all the industries that supply the railroads, right?
I said, wow, it'd be amazing if something like that happened, but it may happen in China
or India, but I'm not sure what will happen.
And then the internet happened, you know, was before then, but now AI is, I believe, is
the next fundamental paradigm shift.
It's going to create the next billionaires and trillionaires in terms of market
opportunity.
I think now is the time, it's still nascent.
there's a lot of opportunities to get in on the ground floor and do something.
And we're starting to other parts of the world, whether it's not just United States, you
see in France, you have Mistral and things come out of the UK, India, now deep-seek out of
China.
So I think it's pretty exciting times to be living in.
I completely agree.
mean, you know, a lot of the businesses nowadays is you don't need to hire like all these
different people when you have things like AI and automation built into the business.
And as you said, it's so early as well, which is the crazy thing is that a lot of people
are getting into this now.
And as you said, it's just so, so early.
So in terms of the work that you're doing within these companies, like what does that look
like from the service delivery and the specifics around it, I guess you could say.
Right, right.
And actually, I should have answered another part of your question.
So I'm in my 50s now.
I'll actually be 52 this year.
So most guys are thinking about retiring.
I'm upskilling and thinking about the next stage of life.
I think my life's kind of starting.
But I don't want to be in that corporate environment where I want to be the master of my
destiny and to build my own thing and have something as a legacy.
So as I'm reaching out, right now I'm actually working with one client.
He's building out in the AI space, a software service or SaaS and data analytics service.
He grew to X million dollars, great palm to have, right?
But he's kind of like plateaued, hit a ceiling because he's in the business, right?
He hasn't scaled the business.
And that's a challenge as you start a business.
If you're the owner, right?
If you're in the business running it, you got to actually have other people doing it for
you.
So I'm actually stepping in, helping them figure out how to scale his business to the next
level.
So we took a step back.
We look at his strategy, his mindset, how to start with your mindset and your strategy,
right?
Then we looked at, what is your target segment?
So, narrowing that down.
It's okay for Coca-Cola to have a broad segment.
I mean, they have a hundred plus years, right?
They can do mass marketing, but if you're going to be a startup, you have to find a
specific segment where you're actually solving a key problem, a problem that they value
and that they're willing to pay for.
So, we're working to identify his target markets, to create his offer.
Right.
So what's that offer going to look like?
How is it going to be delivered to the customer?
What's that pitch?
So it has not only can have a great offer, but is it in a way that you can you're
articulating to your end customer that wow, this is solving my problem.
I value it.
It makes sense to me.
I'm actually willing to pay for it.
Then you have to build your sales campaigns around that.
So that's one of the things we're doing there.
And some clients, what I've done also something called fractional CXO or CXO service X for
executive.
So say that they don't want to hire
full-time executive because they may be a startup that could cost you several hundred
thousand dollars, right?
So for X amount of time per month, you know, it could be on a part-time basis you fix you
pay a retainer kind of thing about lawyer but or a fixed fee, right and You can get
somebody that's gonna be your chief growth officer, you know, I could be chief growth
officer head of strategy chief operational officer Etc chief valuation officer for you
know
Maybe you normally need them, you know, 20 hours a week or 10 hours a week.
Then you pay that rate and then you're not necessarily have to pay them full-time benefits
and all that kind of stuff.
And there's people like myself who's willing to engage them all.
Where not necessarily want to be tied down into a salary based, where you're capped in a
sense, right?
And then, you know, with all the benefits and accoutrements.
Different stage of my life, I would have liked that, know, when, you know, when...
Depends on the family situation all that stuff now.
I have a little bit more freedom where I don't need that,
No, no, definitely.
There's a lot to unpack there.
think one thing I wanted to talk a little bit more about was that first bit you mentioned
about mindset when it comes down to some of the work that you do within the consulting
space.
like specifically about around the mindset, what do you work in?
Because understandably, right, if you've scaled a business very quickly and you you've
never done this before, there's going to be so many different challenges there.
So what are you seeing in terms of those challenges and how you're working through those?
I think there's two things I focus on in terms of mindset.
One is identifying your high payoff or high value activities, right?
So as an entrepreneur, you think, I don't want to hire people.
I can do this myself.
I'm smart enough.
But there's only so many hours in a day, right?
And you got to figure out what is the value of your time.
If you charge your time out to your customer, is it $50 an hour?
Is it $100 an hour?
Is it $250 an hour?
it $500 an What's the value of your time?
And now if I'm spending my time on administrative IT stuff or posting a link, is that a
$10 activity?
Is that a $15 activity?
So you got to figure out, okay, if my time is engaging customers or selling or what have
you, that's a $250, $500 an hour activity.
Should I be doing the other thing?
Now, if you have, if you can work 24 hours a day, that's great, but there's only so much
time before you get burnt out.
So either you go hire somebody.
Use tools or figure out AI to do automation to help you do that.
And those are those are the options there really.
So that's number one.
Number two is actually something I've had to figure out is, you know, when you're starting
a business, there's a lot of emotions.
There's fear.
There's hope.
Right.
And you think, OK, this is going to work.
One thing I learned is if you focus on the right actions.
You'll get the results.
People focus on the results.
I want to get there.
I want to get here.
But you got to work backwards.
What are your thoughts?
What are the actions you need to take place?
You're thinking about each day and then the actions you take to get to those results.
If you focus on the right actions, you'll get the right results.
Then you eliminate the need for emotions like fear and false hope.
Because there's days you're like, I hope this is going to happen or I'm scared this is
going to happen.
But then you got to, I take a step back and look, am I doing the right things each day?
Results that I want if I know I am then I have to the patience.
It's not gonna happen overnight and that's the hard part and it's like really Eliminating
the emotions From your from yourself each day.
That's a it's a energy drain, right?
I think those are two two biggest things in terms of
agree.
That first point you made is essentially time arbitrage, right?
You need to leverage your time properly.
And I love the way you broke that down where, you you can put a value on different tasks,
right?
If you're spending, let's say, even in the automation space, right?
You could spend two, three days building out a simple automation, but do you need to build
out the automation for starters?
And is that automation then going to save you X amount of hours, which can equate to
$10,000 $1,000?
If so, then yeah, sure, spend your time doing it.
But if not, then find someone else to do that for a cheaper cost of what, first of what
your cost is, I guess.
So it's all about leveraging that time.
right.
And now if in that same time that you were building that out, if you had a chance to go
work with a client or whatever and generate $20,000, go do the $20,000 activity and pay
somebody $5,000 to go build that out for you.
But if you don't, but if that, if you have free time, then go do it, you know?
Yeah.
And then build up that skill and the mindset, whatever.
But it depends on situation and your bandwidth, right?
And your skillset.
100%, 100%.
I think that's one of those difficult things as an entrepreneur, right?
Is with some of these tasks, like, maybe I should learn it first and then kind of bring
someone in to do it.
Or sometimes it's easier just to bring someone in straight away.
But then when you bring someone in straight away, you run the risk of, well, do you fully
understand what you're hiring for?
Do you fully understand the task and the concept itself?
I mean, I find myself all the time spending a lot of time maybe learning a new...
skillset when it comes to like maybe automation and AI and things like that.
And then I spent a long time doing it.
stepped back and I'm like, okay, was this worth me doing it right now?
Maybe, maybe not, I'm not too sure.
But it's definitely an interesting time we're in where, you know, that's one of the
problems that we have, right?
Is are we leveraging our time when we're building out these automations and AIs, different
things?
Are we leveraging our time correctly if we're building it ourselves?
Or do we find talent to come in and do it for us?
Yeah, and no, you brought up a good point about, you know, are they doing it right?
So one of the things I've learned, especially from my past is if I'm going to even
sometimes I'm going to do it myself, I'll actually call three different vendors and ask
them to walk me through, sell me on what they're going to do so I can find out, okay,
what's our methodology?
Does it make sense?
Right?
What's the pricing?
There'll always be a, like a Goldilocks, you know, it's like too cold, too hot, too, you
know, just right, right?
So you gotta find the Goldilocks solution and sometimes it may be you have to do it
yourself.
But the thing is to, if you're going to look at a vendor, ask them about their
methodology, the pricing, their guarantees, their work, know, look at what they produce,
testimonials.
So do your due diligence, right?
And sometimes you'll learn that one vendor has one thing, a third vendor has another item.
Then ask them, hey, the competition's offering this, can you do this or how do you address
this?
So I think it's always good to get more information, do your own research.
Hmm.
different people.
if a certain vendor makes sense, yeah, go with them, right?
If it makes sense, but definitely do your homework.
Don't go in blindly and just trust somebody.
I've done that before and there's very negative consequences to that.
Yeah, 100%.
I think you brought up a great methodology really is yeah, like go speak to those other
vendors, see what they do, see what that price point looks like, see what their system is,
let's say, and then cross-reference that with other vendors and even then cross-reference
it with yourself, like what can you actually do?
And if it is something you can do very quickly, it's like, okay, cool, I'll just do it
myself.
It makes more sense.
But if that time arbitrageous day makes sense and it swings in your favor, then yeah, get
someone else to do it.
Awesome.
And then you mentioned about leveraging your time correctly in terms of if you're going to
go ahead and start a task essay is making sure that you're lost my train of thought.
Hold on one sec.
While you're getting your train thought I'll add to that So there are time what I do is
also learn is to block out my time So there's gonna be times I have for sales calls there
may be time like you're saying if I'm gonna do this analysis I block out time they like
this is just my working time.
So I actually block out my time when I set my calendar No one could book with me on
Mondays and Fridays unless I decide to so I'll do a Tuesday Thursday calendar and I put
certain times that they can book with me
But then I have times where I'm doing certain things like a working time or a
brainstorming time.
So like the stuff we're talking about, block out that time.
Maybe it's an hour on a Friday or whatever it's going to be that you're going to max and
spend amount of this time to figure this out.
And then, you know, I think that's one way to, to use your time wisely.
Hmm, definitely.
And then you mentioned about the, the client that you worked with where they've scaled
very quickly.
Do you think that's going to be a common trend we might see now?
Cause with automation AI, that type of thing, can build software out very quickly and
build services out very quickly.
think a lot of people are going to scale very, quickly, also when you from that, right,
you're going to run into that wall of how do you get to the next, the next step of your
journey?
Right.
So do you think that's going to be a common trend you're going to see?
And I guess.
If you are seeing that, then it makes a lot of sense in terms of the work you're doing,
right?
Because you're going to be very much needed in this space.
So is that something you see?
yeah, I think it's a very important thing about scaling.
So in the traditional way of scaling, you use humans or tools, right?
And everyone's talking about AI agents.
AI agents will do all these wonderful things for you, et cetera.
But in classical business, there's something called a principal agent prom.
So the principal is the owner of the business.
Agent is like your manager of your business, right?
So I may have certain visions or goals for my business, but say it's a sales manager.
They may be like, I want to hit a quota.
I want to go hit the golf course.
I want to go on vacation.
So there's, and so that's why there's like your vision, your mission, your values
objective.
So that way your agents are in line with the vision of the principle, right?
So I think a lot of people are looking to automate because it's tough to go hire people
and train people and all this stuff.
And there's a setup time, right?
But even with the AI agent, you're have those things because you gotta make sure the
guardrails are in place, that it doesn't go do something that's.
Unauthorized you hear these stories like a car dealership somebody went in and asked the
AI chatbot Would you give me this car for this really expensive car for forty thousand
dollars or whatever and they said?
Deal no takes.
He's back these And they don't that deal so you gotta be very careful like just don't
think that AI agents are gonna solve the problem, too You gotta make sure okay are the
right and you have to even train and you have to it takes time to train and put the
right guardrails and the frameworks.
Like you got to the AI agent, okay, you're going to be my virtual assistant.
So you're putting the system prop act as a virtual assistant.
Imagine if you're training a new intern, right?
And then you're going to say, these are the tasks you got to do.
Well, there's going to be some training, some iterations, got to figure out just like if
you hired a new intern, right?
And so I think you got always got to be careful about that.
And you know, if you're going to run a business, you got to inspect your business and make
sure that you're doing things the right way and not just not just be blind to that.
everything, tools are going to solve the problem too, right?
But I think, but the short answer is yes, automation is going to occur, et cetera, but it
comes with its risk and you have to do it wisely.
I mean, back about a year and a half ago, I started building out some automations for one
of the clients that we have.
essentially with automation, the thing I found is all about the flow of the logic, right?
Is making sure that's mapped out perfectly essentially.
Because otherwise what you might find yourself in is it could start looping on itself.
And we ran into that where basically it's like it was sending out email notifications to
the client and it was caught in a loop.
So it was ascending.
Yeah, the client's going to, that's a really great way to get customer loyalty and
retention.
Yeah, honestly, I mean, it was an internal notification, which was a good thing.
It wasn't like client face and essay for their clients.
But like the client had like 80 emails sent in like literally two minutes.
It was ridiculous.
And it goes to say, you know, to your point is you need to have those guardrails in place.
And I think that's where, you know, a lot of people are saying, you know, AI is going to
take our jobs and do this, whatever.
And ultimately, if you look back at previous markets, like tech started becoming a big
thing.
Yes, some jobs were replaced, but it just opened the doors to so many other types of jobs
as well.
And we're seeing that already within the AI space, right?
AI prompt engineering is one of the highest paid tech roles you can get now because it's
so sought after.
So yes, some roles are going to be replaced, but ultimately it's going to be opened up
with even more roles in different areas.
But I think AI safety and automation safety, let's say, as you mentioned, I remember
reading that story as well about some of the entering that legally binding contract, let's
say.
for a very cheap car.
But those things, it's gonna be a big issue.
And a lot of people need to have the advisors and the correct people around them to create
those systems and make sure those guardrails are in place.
They say, guess like, AI is not gonna take, basically there's a meme around there, AI is
not gonna take people's jobs.
I gotta remember what it but basically it's like, it's the people that know how, that your
job's not gonna be replaced by AI, you're gonna be replaced by the people who know how to
use AI.
Especially short to medium term.
Now in the long term, yeah, that's a different story, but I think wherever there's human
talent, creativity, the soul, the spirit that's put into something, that's where the...
our differentiation is, right?
You know, if you're a true artist or a creative, I don't think AI can ever truly replace
what you can produce, right?
Not if something that's generic, you know?
Okay, great.
Or AI has its own creative perspective, but there's things as us as individuals, as human
beings, that nobody can replicate, right?
So I think that's what you got to figure out in life, is like what's unique about you and
how do you manifest that into the world, right?
100 % and looking to the future, I mean, I was having this conversation with someone else,
you know, on the podcast and we're talking about, yeah, AI is going to change a lot of
things up, whatever, but there's going to be certain things within the services that we
provide where the human element can't be replaced.
like, for example, podcasting, right?
In my opinion, okay, you can get an AI to create a podcast, say it right, and you can
upload it.
But ultimately through conversations like human to human conversations, you can lead into
places which you didn't even realize you're going to get into.
And there's like soul in it, right?
And it's getting a little bit more wishy-washy, let's say with it.
Um, but it's so true.
And so there's going be elements that aren't going to be replaced.
I mean, I think in the sales and marketing world, you know, I remember last year there was
a company doing like AI cold calling and AI, AI sales essentially.
So it's AI rap will sit on the sales call and do the sales call for you.
But I think ultimately like certain jobs, like you need that human connection, people buy
from people.
And so the stage work that we're out with our generations, say that
that way to connect to the AI isn't going to quite be there.
But then playing devil's advocate with it is, well, maybe in two generations time, like
two generations below me, let's say, they've grown up with AI, they've been speaking to AI
all their life, maybe they will be able to connect with it.
So it's going to be very interesting to see how this landscape shifts over the course of
decades.
I think in the interim period, yeah, we're not going to be able to connect with AI on
certain levels.
But for the future generations, will they be able to connect with AI, let's say?
Right, I know it's gonna be much different by the time it's our grandchildren and great
grandchildren or what have you, right?
Yeah, no, 100%.
So I guess switching gears a little bit and talking about, you know, people that might
have shaped your life, right?
In terms of the entrepreneurial journey or just close like mentors or anything.
Has there anyone, has anyone been there for you in terms of giving you that knowledge and
that motivation that you needed?
And if so, what are the lessons around that?
Yeah, I think when I first started Ernst & Management Consulting, you know, we were doing
business process transformation.
I had no background in it.
I didn't even know what that was or existed where you map different processes, right?
But I had some two or three different managers actually, know, female, male.
They were really good about explaining it to me.
And I learned how to, and so I use it even till today when I go into a customer's like the
first thing you do before you try to go change something, transform something, get
results, is you go look at the current state.
What is the baseline?
So you map the baseline, like baseline processes.
So kind like in your work, if I was coming to work with help you, I would look at what is
your, how do you do your work today?
You probably touch five or six different systems to go, to get your work done, right?
So map that across.
I learned how to logically.
Think through that so you start from a high level, then you break it down to medium, then
you actually go to the individual steps, right?
Once you understand that, you can pretty much understand end to end of business if you
understand that, And then what you could do is, okay, now you go figure out what are the
things that are done manually?
What are the things that are done through different systems?
Is there ways to really optimize that, make that more efficient, right?
So it's been amazing.
I think it unlocked something in me that...
Some people call it laziness, but I don't like to do work for work sake.
I want to be as efficient as possible.
So I like to find the most efficient way of doing things.
And we did things where we would do three to five, six different projects.
So we'd do the streamlined process for a customer.
Then we do it for somebody else and somebody else.
you see, this customer did a unique way or we did this way.
So we would combine some of them to something called a mega process in a sense.
It's like a best practice.
And then you combine three or four different projects, the best practices.
But then going back to that creativity, then I would look at it like, wow, okay, now let's
add an extra layer of creativity that I came up with to make it even better.
And so that's kind of like been my philosophy in a lot of things is look at the baseline,
get some best practices, then add your own level of creativity insight to make something
pretty cool, you know?
100%.
What do you think that that diligence, I guess we could call it about all these different
systems and how you then can connect things together?
Where do you think that came from, like for you?
Because I think with some people is some people just don't have that.
But then some people just just do have that.
Right.
And so it's interesting to learn, like, where do you think that came from?
No, that's a good question I don't know like I always wonder too because you know, I have
kids now they're in college But they're different than me in some ways and maybe it's a
games we play it with that I played when I was younger You know, I played this game called
stratego or you know, and I remember all these strategic games I played or these pieces
and you know kids play different games, right?
but then also just a I think there's also part of me that I just
I don't want to, I just want to get, I want to do, there's a daisy thing you want to do
well, right?
You know, you're kind of ingrained in that, but, but I don't, I don't want to.
Like if you want to create value to do things, you want to free up your time to do other
things, right?
I think that's the thing is like, find the best way to do this so you can actually go do
the things that you love, right?
And why waste your time on menial, going back to the high pay activities, the tasks that
aren't really adding any value that suck up two or three hours of your day.
What is the point of that, right?
Yeah, I'm very much the same way.
I remember when I started like first building up my first, I guess agency you can call it.
I was very much in the process of, okay, I'm gonna productize everything from the start
and that's the way I wanna work.
So I'm super efficient.
But then the other side of it is I think in the beginning you need to be a bit scrappy
with it and just keep throwing stuff up and see what works.
And for me, like as a new entrepreneur when I was getting into the game,
is when I was there building out some of these systems and trying to productize everything
and be perfect from the start, that actually held me back massively because I couldn't
test enough variations that I needed to test before I found the thing that worked.
And then I could productize and optimize that for efficiency.
And so I think that's a common pitfall I think new entrepreneurs fall into, especially in
the day and age that we're in, right?
Going back to the whole AI automation, everything, it's so easy to have that perfectionist
mentality to it.
and productize everything as much as you can.
But ultimately, you do need to have that flexibility in the beginning to get going with
things.
Yeah, I think when you start out you got to have that flex bill.
You're not going to get it perfect You got to get something out and just get something
working This is with more established companies that have established processes, but
regardless of what you're do When you're out, it's probably 40 to 60 percent there, right?
But I think at some point you want to get to 80 percent There's always gonna be no matter
how big a companies I think there's 80 to 80 percent something that's consistent, but you
can have a little bit 10 to 20 say 80 90
You still have to have 10 to 20 % that's customized or flexible for the situation.
Because not every situation gonna be, you can't be too rigid, right?
Or something's gonna break.
You gotta have that flexibility, kind of like a tree in the storm, right?
That if something comes that you have that agility and flexibility to adjust to that
situation.
So you have to build in that ability too.
Not that it's always so hard and fast, right?
I completely agree.
And I think as well that that final, let's say 20 % or 10 % of getting the product perfect
and everything is that you have diminishing returns with it sometimes.
Because as you said, you're not flexible enough where you can pivot and move a little bit
based on what the market's doing and everything.
And as you said, if the structure is built and it's super rigid, then ultimately that's
going to be going to be a downfall in the end of it because you've not been able to adapt
to the market.
And so in a way you do get those diminishing returns is what I found.
But at the same time, it's also very difficult if you are
coming from that perfectionist mentality where you do want everything to be perfect.
So it's definitely an interesting journey, like going through this and trying to figure
this side of it out.
Well, that's why a lot of these large companies fail because they've done it well for so
long, but the market changes and they don't want to adapt to that.
And that's a challenge there, right?
And that's why these large companies fail and because they can't adapt.
They've built and they also spent 18 months getting it perfect.
If you do anything in technology for 18 months, building it, the technology's already
changed by the time you've deployed it.
So you got it perfect for 18 months ago.
And now it's 18 months later and the market changed, the technology changed, and now
you've got to go back to the drawing board again.
100 % especially in AI and that's the crazy thing.
It's like imagine building out some type of, you know, automation tool or whatever, like
four or five years ago before, you know, open AI really became public with things.
And then now you can build it for a fraction of the cost.
It'd be 10 times as better.
I mean, some of the apps I've seen now, there's one called bolt.new and that allows you to
build applications with AI very, very quickly.
I mean, I've managed to deploy some internal like apps for our clients in space of about
an hour, two hours and
usually you would have to go to a developer, know, build up the wireframes and do this,
that and the other.
And it'll take weeks and thousands of dollars to get it done.
But now you're in a space where you can adapt that very quickly.
So it's definitely a very interesting and evolving landscape, let's say.
then you had OpenAI and all these guys with one model, then DeepSeat comes out and comes
out with what they claim is a much cheaper model in terms of training.
But we got to look through all that stuff too.
then it's efficacy, right?
So things are changing pretty fast.
It does make me wonder about all these AI companies is that they're all going to become
essentially commoditized and it's going to be a bit of a race to the bottom in terms of
the cost, because ultimately that's what the consumer is going to really care about.
If they're all like fractionally, like one or 2 % better in terms of reasoning or
whatever, ultimately the consumer is going to go to the lowest cost one, like we saw with
open AI and the Chinese ones that are coming out now, which are fraction of the cost.
And so it is going to be interesting to see how
the US and guess Western companies are going to try and adapt and compete with them on
that level if cost is going to be one of the biggest things for companies.
Well, no, you bring up a great point because if you look at, take a step back, remember
when mobile networks came out.
So here in the, you know, we have H &T, Verizon, you know, in the UK where you have
Vodafone and everybody else.
When it first came out, it super expensive, right?
And then the prices kept going lower because you get a new competitor coming in and it's
just highly commoditized because you're just valuing the pipe.
And I think with these AI players, they're building the networks in the pipe in a sense.
But then later the Facebooks and the Googles, which are called the over the top players,
which have provided value added apps and experiences, they're the ones reaping the
benefits and the revenues, right?
Same thing's gonna happen to AI.
If you're just focused on the pipes and the technology, and there's not some sort of
valuable user experience that you're delivering at the end of the day, you're gonna be
commoditized, right?
Or you're not solving a problem that anybody needs in a sense.
Completely agree on this.
We're starting to see OpenAI, guess, doing that a little bit now.
I mean, I know they've like released their tasks, let's say, where you can tell it to do a
task or whatever, and it's going to do it.
And they're trying to implement that as much as they can, because I think for a long time,
they were just resting on the technology itself.
But now they're going to have to really adapt and innovate into what is the next thing for
the user experience and what products can they create around that.
So it will definitely be very interesting.
So one of the final questions we always ask to guests on the show.
is if you can go back to your 18 year old self and you can only take three things with
you, whether it's some business knowledge, some philosophical knowledge or whatever that's
gonna be, what would those three things be and why would it be those things?
You know, I always told myself, so here's the fundamental thing.
I'll answer your question, but here's the weird thing is like, I thought about it, would I
go back to myself and give myself advice or anything like that?
I'd probably say no, because I could change the future because maybe my failure or my lack
of knowledge in the space led me to that hunger to like keep going, right?
So.
That would be my answer, but if I had to take So you're saying if I had to take three
things to my 18 year old self so you're talking about physical things or just thoughts or
lessons that you've had along the journey, whether it's some business knowledge, some
philosophical knowledge, mindset knowledge, anything you could think of.
I think the first one is life is not going to happen the way you expect, right?
It's going to be challenging.
You're going to have to fight through.
But everything's going to be all right.
Just have faith and go forward, right?
That would be the number one thing.
Maybe that, when you're young, think everything's just gonna be a certain way, right?
Look at me, I'm even innovating in my 50s, And so, and most people are retiring, right?
So, you don't know where life is gonna lead you.
Second thing, see, so the part of the Indian from where, from Kerala, so we've been
Christians for like 2000 years.
I would take my Bible and say, read this, you'll need it.
Focus, don't focus on the world.
Focus on your relationship with God, others in your family, right?
Make sure to prioritize that.
You my parents are now gonna be 82.
They're still around.
And so...
Just try and make sure I make more time for them.
And three...
I think, know, Big B's, said that too, is like...
I think sometimes as know, Daisy kids, we grew up in this tough environment in terms of
expectations.
I would just say your parents did the best that they could with what they knew, you I
mean, that's what I'm doing with mine.
So I don't think there's physical things I would take really.
I think those are the perspectives I would take.
And you raised a good point at the beginning of there, right?
It's like, actually, would I, would I actually go back and change things?
Because it's one of those, one of the things when you look back in life at all those like
failures or lessons, whatever you want to call it, is when you look back, you can connect
the dots.
It's like, well, I had to go through that to go through that, to go through that to get to
this point I'm at right now.
But when you look forward, when you're going through something, you can't figure out how
this is gonna, how this is gonna line up and work out for you.
But as you said, right, everything does work out in the end, ultimately.
But going back to what we said at the very, yeah, I mean, mean, the, the, the, thing
about, yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Exactly that.
And what you said at the beginning of the podcast, where as long as you're doing those
daily actions, those daily inputs that you need to do, then ultimately things will work
out.
think, I think that's the, that's the best explanation of it.
Yeah.
like when we say that I because I think about people didn't work out for this person or
you know Something tragic happened or whatever.
We don't know what the future holds right something can happen tomorrow But until then,
you know Keep enjoy life Keep moving forward right?
You're gonna fall you're gonna take some steps back But don't over rotate on it, you know,
just try to try to be happy and just you know
to live the life the way you think you should live it in a good way, right?
Definitely amazing.
Well, thank you so much for joining me on today's episode.
I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Same here, I really appreciate your time.
and hello to all the folks in the UK and across your audience.
Howdy from Texas, Dallas, Texas.
Amazing, amazing.
Thank you so much.
All right, thanks.