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A podcast that spotlights the women reshaping the hospitality industry, breaking barriers, and carving their paths in the ever-evolving world of restaurants, food, and community.
Sara Abernethy (00:36)
Today I am talking to Anh Luu You know her from Queer Eyes Season 8 in New Orleans, where honestly I feel like that was the best home glow-up I had seen on the entire series from the wonderful Bobby Berk This conversation was our first time actually meeting, but it was one of those where I felt like we were old pals and we had gone back for years and years. Anh is deeply rooted in New Orleans, and from the perspective of a chef, she has done everything.
She's been a chef owner. She has been an executive chef. She's been on Chopped. She took social media by storm with her viral "Pho-rrito" pop-ups. And now she is taking the world by storm on her own. She is focusing on consulting, pop-up dinners, and she's even launching a new CPG product later this year.
I loved meeting Anh. I know you will too. So please enjoy my conversation with Anh Luu
Sara Abernethy (01:31)
And yeah, like I said, hopefully this will just feel like you and me having coffee and meeting for the first time and. Yeah. So you're in DC right now.
Anh Luu (01:38)
Sorry.
Yeah, I'm in DC right now. I'm just visiting my best friend. lives here. She's my best friend from high school in New Orleans, but she ⁓ is sick. I, yeah, she recently got diagnosed with some cancer and I'm here for the week just to spend some quality time with her and hang out and, you know, be best friends. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (02:08)
So sorry, that is...
Anh Luu (02:10)
No, she's
actually doing like really, well, like so much better than she was when she got diagnosed. So she's, it's all good. Like there's no crazy timeline or anything like that. It's like kind of scary, but I think all the most scary parts are over and we're on the mend, you know?
Sara Abernethy (02:30)
I no one wants that word.
Anh Luu (02:34)
Yeah, we're so young, like we're 40. So yeah, we're it was unexpected. But, you know, it's like, there's a lot of good things that come out of it, too, because it kind of shakes you awake again, you know, and you're like, Oh, my gosh, this life we got to we got to do things, you know. Shit is temporary. So, yeah, we have some exciting plans and trips to take in.
Sara Abernethy (02:53)
shit, it's temporary.
Anh Luu (03:03)
Yeah, but I was able to get away because it's Mardi Gras, New Orleans right now. And yeah, so I, you know, I'm from there. I've been living back there for six years and Mardi Gras gets kind of old, you know.
Sara Abernethy (03:09)
Right?
I imagine you're like the Times Square of New York City where you're like, I just don't.
Anh Luu (03:23)
Yeah, well, just like the whole city kind of like shuts down for it. And there's like a lot of roads that are closed. There's all these drunk people everywhere. The city is just littered with trash, you know, and it's just like it gets old and everyone's just like eating sugary, like king cakes and drinking. And it's just like all this debauchery that I honestly my body can't handle anymore. You know, like I can't drink and do drugs like I used to.
Sara Abernethy (03:51)
I mean, there's a version of me inside the many layered onion that is me that would have enjoyed that experience. I have been to New Orleans only once and ⁓ it was fun. It was definitely a fun trip, but I really wish I could go back as like a real grownup.
Anh Luu (04:11)
You should come like, you should come after Mardi Gras, like, because springtime is, yeah, like March, April, May is like all the fun music festivals and it's crawfish season. So it's like the height of the culture of our crawfish eating, you know, and like, yeah. And it's just nice weather. Like it's temperate, not too hot, cool, sunny. And it's like, it's really beautiful in New Orleans.
but Mardi Gras is kind of just like all the locals kind of get away from Mardi Gras.
Sara Abernethy (04:46)
I lived in San Diego for a little while, ⁓ where I met my, love of my life, now husband and baby daddy. And it was like that for Comic Con. ⁓ how familiar you are with Comic Con. I worked downtown for several years while I lived there and it felt, I don't know, like maybe it wasn't the same intensity as Mardi Gras, but it really did feel like the city gets taken over.
Anh Luu (04:59)
Yeah, I know about Comicon I'm a cat, yeah.
Sara Abernethy (05:14)
You can't really get where you're planning to go downtown or through downtown if you need to go anywhere. And then there's just like a lot of riffraff that you don't want to be you just don't want to bump into.
Anh Luu (05:24)
Yeah, people are just acting a fool everywhere, right?
Sara Abernethy (05:27)
I'm
not a fool because they're on a spring break in their hearts.
Anh Luu (05:31)
It's like you've never partied before, like chill.
Sara Abernethy (05:34)
I did not go during Mardi Gras. I think it was March when I went to New Orleans. I was technically a grown-up, but I was 22, 23. ⁓ But I do still remember some of the meals I had there was just some of the best dining experience of my entire life. ⁓
Anh Luu (05:44)
It's not really growing up, no.
I feel like the service in New Orleans is unmatched. Like, yeah, like when I moved to Portland and started eating out there and being in restaurants there, that the service was the thing that I noticed like first about the differences between dining out in Portland and dining out here in New Orleans and like the the relationships that you have with restaurants.
people will remember your face. There's so many restaurants that have regular customers in New Orleans. And so it really does feel like you're walking into your friend's house or just like the friendly banter is kind of necessary when you're having a dining experience with your server. You don't want someone that's just like, what do you want?
Sara Abernethy (06:48)
It sets the whole tone. It's like that quote, you you always remember how people made you feel.
Anh Luu (06:54)
Exactly. And I feel like the service in Portland was like the food was next level. Like all of the culinary scene there was incredible. The chefs were incredible, but just like the experience of dining out at I wouldn't say it was great at every single place. Like most places is just like, you're a number hurry up and eat and get out of here. You know? Of course it wasn't true for like every single place, but
You know, since I was also a chef and a restaurant owner in Portland, people knew me. like, and I had friends all over the place. So it was definitely like a different experience for me, versus a regular person just going out to eat. But yeah, that was like when I was fresh there, that was the thing that I noticed first.
Sara Abernethy (07:36)
So, okay, what brought you to Portland, and what year was that when you moved to
Anh Luu (07:43)
Um,
so I moved there in 2009. I was like 22, 23, something like that. my parents are relocated there after Katrina. My sister is 15 years older than me. So she had married somebody who grew up out there and she was out there. And so after Katrina happened, like my dad's business and our house flooded. And so they were like, well, we might as well move to,
where the family is. And so my sister is the only one out of our three siblings that has children. So they had the grandkids. My parents were like, let's move to the grandkids. And that's how they ended up out there. But gosh, life has changed so much since then. Yeah. So much life. Yeah. And they moved there like a month after Katrina and I moved out there like
Sara Abernethy (08:30)
So much life.
Anh Luu (08:37)
a few years after Katrina. I was only 19 when Katrina happened. Yeah, yeah, my 40th birthday is in August. I'm a Leo. Yes. And I'm a tiger in my Lunar New Year zodiac. So I'm a Liger. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (08:42)
The same age you and me.
Go or a Leo?
Anh Luu (09:00)
I was about to go into my sophomore year of college and then Katrina happened and I didn't have anywhere else to go really, but I was like, bye, family, I want to stay in New Orleans. I was going to Loyola university in New Orleans, and then I transferred to a school called Louisiana tech in North Louisiana, because that's where a lot of
Tulane and Loyola students were going because they hadn't started their semester yet when the hurricane hit. They have a late start and all the other schools in the state had already started. So it just seems like an easier time to just go there because they hadn't started school yet and I wouldn't have missed anything. Also, like my high school boyfriend was going there and I was like, ooh, high school boyfriend. And he turned out to be like,
terrible and like just cheating on me all the time with college girls, you know, so I just spent a year there and Missed home and then I went back to New Orleans and started working in restaurants again I was working at this sushi place when Katrina hit called Wasabi just as like a hostess and I had actually quit that job the weekend that Katrina hit
already. And then they were like, well, this hurricane's coming, so don't come in. And then all of sudden it was like, oh, we have to evacuate. Everybody has to leave. Okay. It was, it was, it was a time. And I remember like I evacuated with my mom and dad and brother in one car. And it took us seven hours to even get to Baton Rouge, which is normally less than an hour away. And
Sara Abernethy (10:40)
whoa.
Anh Luu (10:42)
I remember just like all these people running out of gas on the side of the road and and all the gas stations were out of gas and the cell phones were all jammed because everybody was trying to call at the same time. It was so scary. And then we somehow get to Baton Rouge and then our family has to split up because like every body is in Baton Rouge. So there's like not a lot of room at, you know, friends and relatives house. So I ended up staying with
a friend that I had a class with in college, you know, and I was like, Hey, can I stay here? So like, we stayed, stayed there for a few days, the power went out. And then when the power started coming back on and we could watch the news, we were like, ⁓ so my parents picked me up. We went to Texas. I had a cousin living in Houston. So we drove to Houston and we were trying to figure stuff out from there.
And I was like, well, I need to go back to school. So I'm going to go to this school. And that was probably like, don't know, like an eight hour drive from Houston. So my parents just like drove me and dropped me off at school and then like left. And I remember they put all of the FEMA applications in my name because I was still in Louisiana and they were moving to Oregon. And so we get this like,
FEMA check for $20,000 or something, which in hindsight is not very much money because they just like lost their home, all this stuff. I was 19, I was still living with them. And so they were like, why don't you just keep this check and you can just be on your own? And I'm like, okay. So they're like, here, be free. So I was like, okay, bye.
Sara Abernethy (12:13)
possessions,
Anh Luu (12:32)
yeah, then I was on my own ever since then.
Sara Abernethy (12:35)
epic drama. You know, we have been through it. Like I, since emerging into adulthood, I just think we've been through it. And then you and I have also chosen chaotic vocations. Yes.
Anh Luu (12:37)
I know.
Yeah.
Yes, us millennials, we've really been through it.
So you currently own a restaurant now.
Sara Abernethy (13:03)
So I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina. My husband and I own and operate two locations here. ⁓ One is a brew pub. when I saw your episode of Queer Eye, I was like, my God. I mean, I just saw so much of myself in you. It was so cool to see ⁓ your story on that show. So a brew pub in downtown Raleigh that has been a very beloved restaurant location for a very long time, but needed somebody to come in and breathe some fresh life into it.
Great location, old building built in the 1940s, which is sort of a nightmare to maintain, it's very, it's very cool. It's got this big patio that overlooks the Raleigh city skyline. It's called Wye Hill kitchen and brewing.
Anh Luu (13:44)
What's the name of it?
Sara Abernethy (13:51)
Juicy on the screen. And that little V in the H is the shape of the railroad tracks that goes right in front of our intersection is called a "Wye"
Anh Luu (14:00)
cool.
Come visit you. I've never really been to Raleigh, North Carolina.
Sara Abernethy (14:09)
I'm hanging Raleigh is happening. Raleigh. Yeah. It's the secrets out. yeah, we just got our first Michelin. ⁓
Anh Luu (14:19)
I mean,
believe it or not, so did New Orleans. Yeah, like the first Michelin stars came out this past season for New Orleans. That's so shocking, right? They've never come here before.
Sara Abernethy (14:22)
Get out! one!
Shocking.
That
seems like a gross oversight like Raleigh I can get but
Anh Luu (14:39)
Yeah, and lord, did the people of New Orleans have opinions about what Michelin chose?
Sara Abernethy (14:46)
I mean, so did they in Raleigh, but we'll get into that. ⁓
Anh Luu (14:49)
Yes. Yeah, we'll
get into that later. Yeah, right.
Sara Abernethy (14:53)
that off mic with a
Sara Abernethy (14:59)
Just a quick break in today's conversation to extend an invitation to you. Your listenership and your support of the podcast truly, truly means the world to me. And it does take a significant amount of resources to produce this podcast. So if you have enjoyed these conversations,
If you want to help continue ensuring that these conversations and this visibility are available to the women in our community and the people who need it most, I invite you to join our Her Seat at the Table Patreon community. You can join for as little as $3 a month, which is basically like buying me a cup of coffee, which would be very appreciated.
And I do have some cute perks in there, everything from doing a live shout out of your name on an upcoming episode, all the way to an invitation to the upcoming Her Seat at the Table dinner party, which I host in the fall of each year in Raleigh, North Carolina. So thank you for considering. Thank you for listening. And let's jump back into our conversation.
Sara Abernethy (16:06)
Yes, you should totally come to Raleigh. It is happening. Our other location is about 20 miles down the road in Durham. ⁓ Raleigh Durham, And it's called Glass House Kitchen. It is much more upscale, but still eclectic and whimsical and fun and both locations we really are trying to
Anh Luu (16:15)
Okay.
Sara Abernethy (16:27)
intentionally infuse this vibe of, hey, we know the rules of dining, but we're going to make it fun and silly on purpose
Anh Luu (16:36)
That's the trend, I think, because people are becoming more of themselves as the world goes to shit, you know? Because people are like, fuck it, who cares? You don't like it? Leave. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (16:50)
Now, my, you know, PNL tells me that all people really want is a cheeseburger. That's all. That's all they want. there's nothing I can do. So, okay. ⁓ The cheeseburger.
Anh Luu (16:55)
Yes.
⁓ they've got the wine.
You're so basic
in America.
Sara Abernethy (17:08)
I will say I forced my husband to watch you on TV because I wanted him to experience the "Pho-rrito" Because he's from Los Angeles first of all, cannot find a proper burrito, he says in Raleigh Durham. Can't, according to him.
Anh Luu (17:16)
Yeah.
Really?
Is
he Hispanic or? Okay.
Sara Abernethy (17:31)
He's a white guy.
He is accustomed to a certain caliber of tortilla and he says.
Anh Luu (17:36)
That's what every Californian says. That's what they're like, well, we're superior.
Sara Abernethy (17:42)
And then our favorite date night meal is pho. ⁓ thanks. Yeah, so ⁓ we he loved that idea, but yeah, we would love I would love to enjoy an Anh Luu "Pho-ritto" at some point.
Anh Luu (17:54)
I can come
do a pop-up.
Sara Abernethy (17:57)
Okay, so you're in Portland and you go you relocate to Portland family is there that makes sense. Service is different. But did immediately jump into food and beverage when you were there?
Anh Luu (18:11)
Yeah, so I like moved there to go to culinary school essentially because my parents were living there already and I was like, I need to be near my family, I think. So I chose the culinary school that was in Portland and.
Sara Abernethy (18:24)
you had knew that you were like this is my path i'm going to cook food and make great
Anh Luu (18:29)
Yeah,
I mean, I kind of knew I started cooking when I was 16, like professionally, like I started working in a restaurant as a cook, as a line cook when I was 16. And my friends' parents were a part of this restaurant group that owned a bunch of different restaurants around town. So my first restaurant job was a Mexican restaurant actually called Vaqueros. And it was kind of like...
not like super high end or super casual, it's kind of middle of the road. you know, I just, I was making nachos and tacos and enchiladas, but they also had like shrimp and polenta and a stuffed pork chop and stuff on the menu. So it was like my first real line cook experience and it was hard. I tell you, I definitely wanted to quit. People were mean to me because I was like a little girl.
and didn't know anything and making mistakes, you know? But I...
Sara Abernethy (19:27)
high volume?
Anh Luu (19:29)
medium sized restaurant. It wasn't crazy big or anything, but I don't remember, like it was in like a row of other restaurants. So I would say normal, nothing crazy high volume or huge, but you know, like I could have quit at any time and done something different because I was 16, but I don't know. It stuck with me and that is the career that I chose.
Yeah, so now I'm still chef-ing
Sara Abernethy (20:00)
But you've had such a journey and that's what I think is so cool about your story and I think that this community would find, like me, think people see a lot of parts of themselves reflected in a story like yours.
Anh Luu (20:13)
Yeah,
I've gotten so many DMs online about my story from people who really see themselves in my story. And you know what, like, I think that that was the most healing part about the experience was just hearing from real people being like, me too, And I'm just like, yeah, I'm glad that I can inspire people to kind of get out of their funks. like, man, I was in a huge funk when the filming of the episode happened.
⁓ I was like right on the cusp of wanting to quit my job.
Sara Abernethy (20:47)
If anyone's listening and they're like, episode are you talking about? It's Queer Eye
Anh Luu (20:50)
Episode six, season eight. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (20:56)
Yes. Yeah, you were in a crossroads moment.
Anh Luu (21:00)
I was definitely in a crossroads. I agreed to be on the show as like a last ditch effort to make the restaurant busy, honestly.
Sara Abernethy (21:08)
something I wanted to ask you but I didn't know if I could like yeah
Anh Luu (21:11)
Yeah,
now that all of my NDAs have like expired, girl, let me tell you.
Sara Abernethy (21:16)
Yeah, I really feel like people now are like, well, let me just go on a reality show as a PR strategy.
Anh Luu (21:26)
is
like, because you know, I was on Chopped in 2015. And that really made my, my restaurant explode, you know, it was great and exposure. I mean, I didn't get paid to do that. And I didn't really get paid to do Queer Eye, but it's just like all about exposure. And that is what you get taught as a chef, like you got to do a lot of free stuff in order for you to become well known, you know, and I mean,
Kind of bullshit, but it's not the only industry where you have to do that, you know, so I mean, I think it it's becoming a less and less of a thing because You know the younger the Gen Z ears are more blunt about what their boundaries and what they want are, right? so I'm still in the mindset of like well, I got to do some free stuff to Make it out there because like people just view food
in a different way than they view every other product. They don't wanna pay more for it unless it's like this crazy, fancy experience that at the end of the day might not even be as good as like a regular ass meal. One of my favorite movies is The Menu, my gosh. my God. I love that movie because you really just don't understand it unless you're a chef.
Sara Abernethy (22:38)
Watch it all the time.
like it is obviously like very dark but Chris and I just laugh and laugh and laugh so much to it that's like just so on the
Anh Luu (23:00)
Right. It's just like, it highlights all of the things that I truly hated about the industry. like, it solidified all of the decisions that I've made for myself up until now, you know?
Sara Abernethy (23:15)
How much longer were you at the brew pub after the show aired?
Anh Luu (23:20)
Just a year. Cause like basically I like during filming, I wasn't aware that there were two seasons that were being filmed at the same time. So I thought I was going to be in the next season like everyone else, you know, but then like closer to the air date, they were like, actually you're going to be in season eight instead of seven. And I was like, what do you, what does that mean? And I'm like, oh, it's not going to be your air till next year. I was like,
Next year, I like, I don't have another year in me to keep going at this restaurant, you know?
Sara Abernethy (23:56)
partner there
Anh Luu (23:58)
I was not,
thank God. Yes. I was after I sold Top Alaya in Portland, I was like so, my gosh, I was so traumatized by that whole entire experience. God, let's get into it.
Sara Abernethy (24:01)
Okay.
Like what do you wish you had known or what I don't know like nothing can prepare you for any of this shit, right? Like nothing can prepare you for being an owner for the first time. No for selling but like what do you wish you had known now on the other side of it the experience of selling your Portland place?
Anh Luu (24:34)
Well, gosh, my whole story with with ownership there because like I worked there for seven years before I bought it and then I owned it for three and like I decided to buy it with my sister and her husband. And you know, that was kind of the worst mistake ever because
you know, you don't really know your family until you get down to the nitty gritty and see who they really are. And it's unfortunate to say, but like we do not speak anymore. And it's because I discovered that they had no clue what they were doing and they were also being really greedy. And they also like took all my money, right? So, and they also didn't care that I didn't have any money, right? It's so fucked up. And
Sara Abernethy (25:17)
It's
That's so fucked up. ⁓
Anh Luu (25:24)
Also, our mother died in a car accident the same week we bought this restaurant, right? Yeah, like a few days before we signed the closing papers, my mom dies in a car accident in Texas with my dad. Like my dad is alive, obviously, but like he was driving and like it happened. The accident happened on the Monday. She died on Tuesday. We signed the papers on Friday, right? But my sister like went.
Sara Abernethy (25:29)
my god!
Anh Luu (25:53)
to Texas to like figure out how to get her body back to Oregon and all that stuff. My brother went with her and I was like, ⁓ I automatically assumed that I would go and she would buy me tickets to go, you know, because I was a poor chef. And she basically was like, no, you have to stay here and buy the restaurant. And I was like, we're still buying this restaurant this week. What? Yeah. So.
I just, have a lot of resentful feelings.
Sara Abernethy (26:23)
Yeah, I would imagine.
Anh Luu (26:25)
I have a lot of resentful feelings about that time because then I just sort of went into this blur of like delving my, like delving all the way into the restaurant instead of like giving myself time to heal and grieve and all that stuff. And I was just like in it and working seven days a week, like 90 hours a week, being the chef still being the operating manager, doing all the books, doing all the payroll, like
keeping track of all the money, like doing all of it, because my sister sort of didn't end up helping me in the way that I thought she would with the business. She just sort of dropped out without a conversation, right? So I was kind of left to deal with every single thing myself. And I was overwhelmed. I was just the chef of the place before, you know, I didn't know the fuck I was doing.
But I tried my best and I kept that restaurant open for as long as I could. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (27:25)
And
then you did that for three years with all that I mean that is extraordinary. Yeah, and extraordinary that you kept it open and kept all those people employed. Yeah, it is absolutely unreasonable and unsustainable. Oh, totally.
Anh Luu (27:42)
I
mean, luckily, my old boss who owned the restaurant before me, like, kind of remained to be, like, my mentor after I bought the place to just make sure the transition was smooth and, the bookkeeper that she had still stayed on. And so I would have these monthly P &L meetings with him to make sure I was doing okay. But, you know, after my first month, holy shit, my labor was, 50 % and I was like, oops.
Sara Abernethy (28:09)
You really do you learn it all so differently. Yeah, looking at the books and it's all on you. financial literacy. I'm so like this is one of my deepest areas of shame. But yeah, I'm saying it out loud.
Anh Luu (28:25)
It's not a thing that people make important. It's really weird.
Sara Abernethy (28:29)
And
you don't know it until you're accountable to know it and then I don't know sort of like a shame spiral of like why the fuck did I do this? Like was this a huge mistake? Am I even qualified to be an operator? But yes, I'm eight. I hope all that relates. I hope I'm not alone in the circle, but We're in your eight of operating our restaurant and and I just like within the last chapter learned
Anh Luu (28:44)
yeah.
Sara Abernethy (28:57)
How to Read a PNL took place.
Anh Luu (28:59)
Really?
Girl.
Sara Abernethy (29:02)
I'm saying it out loud because it is embarrassing, but if other people are out there and they are in a similar spiral, I just like want people to not feel alone. And it's because Chris, my husband handled all of it. So Chris handled all of it. and we weren't going to talk, it was not helpful for us as a married couple to talk about money in that way. So like he took that in his lane and I took on other responsibilities in mine. But wait,
Anh Luu (29:13)
Exactly.
What are
your roles at the business?
Sara Abernethy (29:29)
Great question. So
neither of us are chefs Anh we are actually two theater kids. and it sounds like a very sharp left turn career wise. But in fact, opening and running this restaurant is exactly like opening and running a play. ⁓ You have a lot of parallels, you have a lot of young very passionate
employees. Yeah. creative people with who sometimes have unreasonable outlandish expectations and emotional needs to be cared for. And yeah, and you have to open every night and do the same show every night with all of this shit going on. Yes. Like, know, your walk in is down or this order is wrong or this person got COVID or like in some horrible cases. Yeah, like people
Anh Luu (29:59)
Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (30:26)
horrible things happen and you just have like in your role and you gotta open because it's week to week and it's very difficult to keep it going. neither of us are chefs. Chris, my husband is the set designer operations wizard and he really is he but cannot talk to people.
Anh Luu (30:36)
it's day to day!
Sara Abernethy (30:53)
Can that what we're doing right now? Absolutely not. No, no interest in tooting the horn or like, no being out on the, on the floor because he really is introverted. I'm I am obviously not. ⁓ but he's our number one call for any maintenance issue, electrical plumbing.
Anh Luu (31:12)
Well, that's
good. You have like a built-in handyman. Geez.
Sara Abernethy (31:15)
Built in Handyman that is one of the reasons why we're still open at all, because he has saved so much money and time in being able to fix shit. at first, I didn't have a defined role, because when you're doing something, as I'm sure you know, when you're doing something, if your partner is involved in a business, you the partner are involved, no matter what, like, you have an official role or not, you're in it.
Anh Luu (31:19)
Yeah, save so much money. Yeah.
Yep.
Sara Abernethy (31:39)
I
was in it and I was, you know, like in the building. Also, I was working a nine to five for the first three years we were open at Wye Hill in like a corporate nine to five and then, you know, five to 10. We are an entirely bootstrapped operations.
Anh Luu (31:47)
little okay.
Well, somebody has to make the money, right? ⁓
you don't make money at a restaurant for the first at least three three for you.
Sara Abernethy (32:02)
So we have to pay for shelter and food and health insurance and exactly that.
Anh Luu (32:08)
I wish I had a husband during all this restaurant time.
Sara Abernethy (32:11)
I know. Well, I am amazing, I will say. I am amazing. I was very supportive and I would jump in in the building and do whatever needed to be done. And those first three years, a lot of it was just like, fill in this job where nobody showed up. So the owner does. then we sort of made it a little more official three years in when I did come on full time.
Anh Luu (32:29)
That's what they
Sara Abernethy (32:36)
But it wasn't clear. That was like one of the biggest mistakes. I came on and I sort of tried to be the CEO of everything. Be in charge of all the things, ⁓ which ⁓ I had never done that before. I had never managed a team before. So that didn't go well. And then I sort of like shimmied on over to marketing PR, business development.
Anh Luu (32:44)
Mm.
so hard.
Sara Abernethy (33:05)
big partnerships and wine. So I have a background in some training in the wine certification world. But then there's just this sort of like intangible connective tissue that the owner provides in quantifiable with the team and the vibe. And I was carrying a lot of that burden, but it wasn't definable really. And then I had two babies. So yeah. So now.
Anh Luu (33:09)
Okay.
That's right.
I don't know about all that. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (33:36)
So now you're asked, what is your role in the restaurant? Well, the reason I started this conversation series, this podcast is because I'm trying to figure out what that is. Yeah. What I, and I am not involved in day-to-day operations anymore. And I went through a really big reckoning when I realized, and I'm wondering if you went through the same thing, like, realized I can't do this anymore. I can't be in day-to-day operations anymore. And I think our situation is a little different.
Anh Luu (33:45)
What do want to do?
Sara Abernethy (34:03)
⁓ I think your body might have just been broken and your soul might have been like, I'm done. I don't know. I don't want to speak for you,
Anh Luu (34:10)
Yes, all of these are true things.
Sara Abernethy (34:14)
For me, it was I'm having the second baby. I know I can't keep going in this way, but I don't really know what I want to do in the business or I don't even know where I'm most valuable. So I stepped out pretty much all of 2025, had a little boy who's doing great.
Anh Luu (34:31)
Congratulations! Thank you!
Sara Abernethy (34:34)
And then sort of like October, November, the management team started to say, hey, we miss you in this.
Anh Luu (34:43)
Where
are you when you come back? Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (34:46)
You know, and we're seeing where there's sort of these balls being dropped, but we couldn't see it before when you were there. And it was kind of validating to hear that. I'm not going to lie Mm hmm. Like you need me.
Anh Luu (34:59)
Yes. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (35:02)
but I have to be really careful now because it's so easy to get sucked back into issues that are open. And as the owner, have the authority to like make a decision, but you're not in a day to day. don't really always know the best decision. really needs to up to them. Right. forward. Chris is still in it every day, day to day, all the things. Yep. All the things eyeballs deep. ⁓ and I'm trying to figure out.
Anh Luu (35:25)
Really?
Is he like managing like everyone or is he just like
Sara Abernethy (35:36)
We have two wonderful general managers at each location. ⁓ good. Who've been with us for a long time and we are so lucky that they're still with us, but and that they've come up with us since 2020, really. Mm hmm. And so he works with them every day and then they is actively trying to coach them to continue to take over more and more and more operational ownership.
So that he doesn't need to be the decider on every single thing.
Anh Luu (36:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm sorry.
Sara Abernethy (36:07)
It's like, was a long
conversation supposed to be about you, but I do think.
Anh Luu (36:13)
Right,
it's interesting to learn about where you come from too because yeah, that's just a part of networking and getting to know each other.
Sara Abernethy (36:24)
Did you have that feeling though when you were like, can't do operations anymore? Did you have this feeling of like, well, I'm just a big quitter. I'm just a big quitter.
Anh Luu (36:33)
Gosh, so
after I sold my restaurant, ⁓ I just felt like a failure that I had to close the restaurant, you know? in hindsight now, like how long has it been? Like six years since I have not owned that restaurant. I feel like, you know, I was feeling really unaccomplished and a failure and I was scarred about ownership.
again, you know, and ⁓ it took a lot of just like therapy and talking with other people that have owned restaurants and like relying on your community for like a reality check, you know, because, you know, obviously I wasn't a failure. I had accomplished so much by the time I had to close that restaurant.
It was my first restaurant and only lasted three years. And so that's why I felt so, you know, unaccomplished, but honestly, like that was the hardest thing anybody could have done for the situation I was given. So.
Sara Abernethy (37:41)
Many people probably couldn't have even done it that long, as long as you did.
Anh Luu (37:46)
Yeah, and I've always kind of been like a perfectionist and
Sara Abernethy (37:55)
And so...
Anh Luu (37:58)
Like I would work myself to the bone and like anxiety, chain smoke cigarettes, you know, like just I was being not taking care of myself and being really bad to my body. And I just couldn't do it anymore. I remember, I remember when I realized that I needed to sell this restaurant was I had gone back home to New Orleans to go to Jazz Fest for the first time in like the 12 years that I had lived in Portland and
When I was back home and at the concerts and seeing all my friends and eating all the food and being at home, I was like, I need to come back home. Like, what am I doing? You know, I just, I need to come back to my safe space and recharge and realign myself because my life in Portland is not what I imagined for myself at 30 years old. Right. Cause like that is when
I bought this restaurant, I was only 30. So it was just like this aha, like right when I got back from that trip, I put the restaurant on the market, no bites for six months, And I was like, I'm gonna have to like file for bankruptcy and close, you know? And then it all moved so fast. Like I actually was like,
looking for jobs in New Orleans to prepare to move back when I put everything on the market. And I had just been flown back home to have this interview with the brew pub people. And so I came back, that was like the end of August, 2019. I came back, I had already started having little side jobs to prepare myself for closing this restaurant.
So I had a friend who had a catering company and I was like helping him cook at events and stuff. I had this event that I was gonna help him with when I got back and I meet my partner now there. He was a server at this wedding. And so.
Sara Abernethy (40:08)
the same partner that we saw right.
Anh Luu (40:11)
Yes, Sam. Yes, same guy. So I meet him and then like, I was like, I kind of need extra help with my restaurant, you know, and he comes and he starts helping me at the restaurant. But then like a month later after we meet is is when the restaurant gets bought. And my broker sends me this email being like, OK, we have two offers. I would go with this one because they already have another restaurant and like blah, blah, blah.
but you need to be out in 10 days. I was like, whoa, I've been here for 10 years, you know?
Sara Abernethy (40:50)
Like down to the studs or like just
Anh Luu (40:52)
just like get all of you know the art and everything that I wanted to keep out
Sara Abernethy (40:58)
But not like the equipment and the tables and chairs and stuff.
Anh Luu (41:01)
No, they were going to keep all of that I basically just sold all the assets that I had in, the restaurant and because I was leasing and they took over my lease. So they got an assignment on my lease, which I had just renewed the year before. So I still have like four years on that lease and it was a goddamn miracle that they didn't close during COVID.
⁓ my God, because I would have had to start paying the rent again if they defaulted.
Sara Abernethy (41:26)
You sold it in 2019? Yes. Get out.
Anh Luu (41:32)
Like six months before COVID happened, I had sold my restaurant.
Sara Abernethy (41:36)
held you and it's really good I was rocking you and was like Anh we and we
Anh Luu (41:45)
I know, and then COVID happened and I watched as the rest of the world's restaurant owners went through exactly what I was going through. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (41:55)
We opened Wye Hill in June of 2019. Ugh. I can laugh now.
Anh Luu (42:02)
Yeah, I mean, I opened the brew pub in December of 2020. That was the hardest thing ever. And you you start something on the wrong foot, you just can sometimes never find your footing, you know?
plus the owners were like a father and son duo. And you know, I still keep in touch with them now. I don't really have any hard feelings about them as people, but they never owned a restaurant before. He was like an attorney before he decided to retire and spend all of his money on this like, know, like brew pub, but.
they were green restaurant people and I wasn't and that's why I thought they hired me but ultimately, we just had different visions. They wanted all of the kind of credit I think for being successful. I mean, I didn't care about that. just, wanted to like our vibes weren't matching and
there wasn't really anything else I could do more for them if they didn't want to make me a partner or, you know, things like that. And then Queer Eye happened and you know that dinner that I did at the end of the episode, they came in and they like revamped the place, like redecorated it, rented different tables, like put up the lanterns. And then we could see this like vision. But by that time it was like too fucking late.
You know, like I was already completely burnt out again after being completely burnt out just like a couple years prior. And I was back to where I was when I was at Tapalaya, you know, and I was just like, the the hiring, ⁓ that finding good people during COVID was literally impossible. I found a couple of good people I had probably in the
and a half, three years that I was there, I felt I had probably four or five different, completely different kitchen crews, you know? I just couldn't do it anymore. Like, I was being the dishwasher a lot and I was coming in to do all the prep by myself and I was going doing some shopping by myself and I was like, I don't own this place. What the fuck am I doing?
Sara Abernethy (44:17)
You feel and I'm saying this fully recognizing that I have had employees who have expressed this to me and have felt this way and I acknowledge that completely The dread you must feel when you're like what the fuck is it gonna be today? Mm-hmm. Like what is gonna fall? What is gonna fall out of line today that I'm gonna just panic and and struggle and
Anh Luu (44:43)
it's
just like who's gonna show up to work? Is anybody gonna fucking come? ⁓
Sara Abernethy (44:46)
I'm going to show up to work today and...
want to provide a great guest experience and you can't trust that you can do that if you don't have the right team with right do that and then you feel as a perfectionist probably like I'm not doing it I'm not doing a good enough job giving this I don't know it's right there's only
Anh Luu (45:07)
the type that will jump in and just do something myself because I can do it better. Yes. Yeah, and so that was like my problem, you know, like I was, I was taught as kind of like a Vietnamese immigrant, a daughter of Vietnamese immigrants, the way you get people to do stuff is by nagging the shit out of them, right? Or micromanaging. But you know, like the older I got, the more
Sara Abernethy (45:13)
Yes, yes.
Anh Luu (45:34)
I wouldn't micromanage someone unless they really were struggling, you know? And I would consider myself a pretty cool boss because there was no topic that was off limits for me, but I had clear like boundaries and what, not clear boundaries, God no, because I was always like saving people's asses and like hopping in to save the day, you know? But just like,
I had clear expectations, is what I meant to say. And I will show you how to do something over and over again until you know how to do it, you know? But people just don't like to communicate anymore. So there was all the ghosting and all the no shows and all of the, that just really gets to you. And like, I find that young Chef Anh Luu had way thicker skin than older Chef Anh Luu ⁓
Sara Abernethy (46:27)
does that mean to you?
Anh Luu (46:30)
know,
being unbothered by other people's reactions and actions around you. And like, my feelings were getting hurt so much by the end of my restaurant time because I was just too embroiled with everyone's stuff. Because I was also not just their boss.
but they're like therapists. If they needed to take the day off of work, then they would have to explain every little thing of why they needed that day off of work. And then I'm like, okay, just take the day off. I'll just do it, you know? But just gotta.
Sara Abernethy (47:00)
I have been in this position many many times. Yeah. that I truly believe is unique to women is this.
Anh Luu (47:13)
Like caring too much and wanting to help and then getting too involved and getting too personal.
Sara Abernethy (47:18)
Because I care deeply about our employees, we could not do it without them. Of course. it is is 100 % the goal to provide them a healthy, positive place to come to work. I allowed myself as an operator to be taken advantage of many times.
And they did not do that with my husband. So it was easier for me to see the difference between how employees would approach me and I would respond versus Chris, who does not give a fuck what anyone thinks about him does not care. He is very he's a wonderful human and does care about people's feelings. Yes, but he is able to much more clearly see, no, the decisions that I make for the good of the restaurant are what's in the best interest of the team. And that might not always be in the best interest of them.
individually.
Anh Luu (48:15)
But
all of that stuff affects the morale of the whole work environment. And it's just this perfect balance that oftentimes just like can never be met, you know? And then you've got such a dynamic between the younger green cooks, who most cooks these days are young and green, because everybody has like transitioned out if they didn't like it, you know? But then you've got your
really experienced front of house people that are still doing it. And there's just like this hamster wheel of complaining that you can't get out of if one person starts to complain, it's like a spread of poison, wildfire, you know, then everybody complains, then everybody's like, yeah, fuck this. And then like mutiny, you know.
Sara Abernethy (48:59)
Have you been through it? I have.
Anh Luu (49:01)
little bit. mean, I actually haven't because I feel like the most detrimental time to the brew pub was when Hurricane Ida happened. And that was when everybody quit, because people were moving or their mental health just got destroyed and they couldn't work in a high stress environment anymore. And then I was left alone. And I had a chef friend
Who?
stepped in to help me and I really appreciated our time and efforts together. She I will not talk about because we are not on good terms anymore. But ⁓ she was also the same person that I don't know if you saw that like last summer I was part of opening this like witch bar in New Orleans.
Sara Abernethy (49:51)
I did not see that. saw your pop-ups.
Anh Luu (49:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I like kind of halted my pop-ups to help her start the switch bar in the French Quarter. It was called Top Low and like nine weeks in, I realized that this wasn't going to work for all the reasons, right? And so I, I just separated myself from her, but didn't tell anybody yet. Like only told my good friends and people that knew her about like what I was experiencing.
But you know, I could have put everything that happened on Blast and I didn't And I just left, you know? And so yes, I value our friendship that we did have before this venture, but I found out who she really was from this venture and we can no longer be tight. So it is what it is.
Sara Abernethy (50:45)
It is so hard to go through those seasons. ⁓ I can relate to that and so much.
Anh Luu (50:54)
Yeah, we should
definitely have some drinks off camera.
Sara Abernethy (50:58)
But that is something I don't hear a lot of people talk about in our seat is this grief that comes from these professional breakups.
Anh Luu (51:12)
And there's a lot of them in the industry, you know? So much drama in the damn industry. And that is why I chose to leave it. I was just so done with all the drama and I freaking love my life now. I have.
Sara Abernethy (51:15)
of them. ⁓
Talk about that. Yeah. your life now because it looks amazing.
Anh Luu (51:30)
I I curated this whole life, my fucking self. I am lucky enough to have a following that I don't need to like advertise myself anywhere. I don't need to go out and find clients. I get just emails every day being like, can you cook for this party? Can you do this? Can you do that? And I have to turn down work like every day. But yeah, so I do. I really have.
Sara Abernethy (51:55)
You have created this world for yourself of catering
and pop-ups and it sounds like you get to choose what you want to do.
Anh Luu (52:03)
I really
do. Like I just recently went to Vietnam and did a pop up at a restaurant in Vietnam in December. It was awesome. And I've got some big plans for Vietnam because my dad lives there. He moved back there in 2022. I was visiting him. I've had this whole dream of going back to Vietnam and having some kind of business there and
And I think it's going to become a reality like a lot sooner than I thought. So I don't want to say anything about it yet, but there's things. Yes, there's things in the works for Vietnam so that I can spend like half the year there and then half the year back in the States. so after I quit the brew pub in 2023, it was pretty early. It was like right before Mardi Gras actually of
Sara Abernethy (52:36)
Be on the look out.
Anh Luu (52:53)
2023. So it'll be my like three year anniversary of being my own boss, I'm really super proud of myself because I have been able in this in these three years, like the first year I was still burnt out from restauranting. So I did some of my own events and pop ups, but I was mostly kind of like,
What's the word she says? I was mercenary cooking for my friend, Chef Sofina from Mr. Mao this restaurant in New Orleans. They just got a Michelin Bib Gourmand actually. Yes. I'm so proud of her. Like that restaurant is also such a crazy whirlwind kind of restaurant. Lots of turnover, but lots of cool stuff happening, great vibes. But you know, every restaurant has
all of the stuff that embroils them, right? And I'm so proud of her. She's such a badass. But I was just like cooking there just to keep busy. And I wasn't ready to delve into my own business yet, honestly. I was just so fucking tired. And so just being on call there and just working there once or twice a week really helped me.
Sara Abernethy (54:02)
needed it.
Anh Luu (54:11)
recover, kind of refocus my vision of where I saw my life, you know? And then I started to, like after a year of working there, like on and off every week, every other week, whatever, I was like, I definitely don't want to open a restaurant again. So I was like, I just, I'm going to delve into my private events and see how that goes. And now I have to turn down work,
And then in March of 2025, last year, I started making and bottling this sauce that I've kind of made my whole career. It's called Sangsauce. It is based on all the herbs in a bowl of pho. So it's like a basil forward, tangy emulsion. So it has like cilantro, scallions, basil. It has lime juice, rice vinegar.
And then I also add some sambal chili paste and a little bit of Creole mustard for like a little Vietnamese zing, right? Can we order this sauce? Well, so right now I'm only at the farmer's market in New Orleans because it's like falling under cottage food law and I can make it at my house and it's a refrigerated item. So I'm a little bit scared to try to ship it because then I have to get the FDA involved in like
do all of that, find an FDA kitchen and like do all that crap that I have zero interest in supporting the government and giving them money and any of that, right? So I don't know, I might do like a secret like sale online and have like a pre-sale thing and just ship small batches every, you know.
Sara Abernethy (55:38)
and like, right and like.
idea, idea, What if you come to Raleigh, have like a little, you know, a kiki in Raleigh and then we could do a collab event and you can make your sauce in our
Anh Luu (56:04)
Yeah.
and
have like a yeah, I make this sauce at the restaurant. And then we can have like a little sauce party. I would love that. I would love that. Yes, I would love to do a collab anything like a dinner, a sauce event like I'm down to travel, honestly. Totally.
Sara Abernethy (56:22)
watching the scene.
love it.
Well, I do think, think where you're at now is very aspirational and I'm wondering what you might say to someone listening to this who is in that mode of like, I'm done with service. I am done being beholden to a brick and mortar, but I feel trapped and I don't know what to do. You know, what would you tell me?
Anh Luu (56:54)
I
mean, honestly, I was in the same space when I was like figuring out whether I wanted to leave the brew pub or not, because I was scared of financial instability, you know, like when I had the restaurant, I was like so poor. And I just never wanted to be in that position again. And so I let like the money like control what I was doing. But honestly, I now that I'm three years out of it, like that having a restaurant job limited me like I
Sara Abernethy (57:22)
Boom.
Anh Luu (57:23)
It it it limited me because you know at a restaurant you don't get paid more if it's busier. You know like you just get paid your same paycheck it even if you fucking got slammed you know so like the fact that I can choose my own hours and travel wherever I want to travel cook whatever I want to cook be sick if I need to be sick you know like.
I do a lot of stuff myself, but honestly, there are so many friends and restaurant friends that have jumped in to help me with bigger events and pop-ups and all that stuff. So not having a staff is great for me because I've made so many good relationships that I can rely on my community. And New Orleans is a lot smaller than people think it is.
Growing up there, working there, like I just, know everybody. And like the community in New Orleans is I would say its greatest asset because we all are fucking looking out for each other and helping each other in any kind of ways. know, like if I need a little prep space and I don't have it for some reason, I can do it at any of my friend's restaurants or restaurant spaces and.
Like if I am short on some product that I can't find, like I can go ask my friend that has it on their menu, like have a little bit or something. you know, it's just, ⁓ it's different. makes my life isn't the same every single day. I'm not stuck like going to the same place at the same time every day. And I love that. I love that so much. I actually recently, like six months ago, I got an assistant that is like kind of like computer person.
She replies to all my emails. She does my invoicing. She does all my menu mockups. She's my assistant during private dinners, like small private dinners. She's like down for anything. She's 25. She wasn't really in the restaurant industry or anything. She's great. No, I just pay. So I have like different ways that I pay her. So for all the computer work, that's an hourly thing. And, but I treat her like a contractor. So I'm just going to 10 99 her. Okay.
Sara Abernethy (59:34)
Thank you.
Anh Luu (59:47)
But like for private dinners, there's a different rate for pop ups. There's a different rate for kitchen prep. There's a different rate. So she just like bills me every two weeks and I pay her. Yeah, it's easy because I'm like, hey, I actually don't want to be anybody's boss. I just I just don't like. It's a two, it's too much because it's like then all these expectations and then.
Sara Abernethy (1:00:08)
It's
Anh Luu (1:00:16)
You have to be thinking extra hard about other things that other people are going to do. And you're just like, I don't care what you do. Like, I don't want to be in control of what people are doing, you know?
Sara Abernethy (1:00:29)
Anyway, you are living your best life. Really are and I'm so thrilled for you because you you really do deserve it. I you you really deserve it. And thank you sharing this experience I know is going to touch somebody if not many, many people who are in the same spot. I'm trapped and I don't know what to do. I love
Anh Luu (1:00:32)
I really am!
Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (1:00:55)
changing the mindset from scarcity to abundance mindset where you're like, there's not necessarily financial instability out there. just like.
Anh Luu (1:01:00)
Exactly!
Like I, the moment I left that job, like the universe gave me a big old hug again. And I started getting work that week that I left my job. And I was just like, what have I been waiting for? You know, you are your only block. just like Bad Bunny said at the Super Bowl, believe in yourself because
It works. Like if you are a good person and if you have good intentions in this world, everything's gonna be fine. You know? It really is. Like I was all scared about money and all this stuff, but really delve into being yourself. And sometimes you have to jump off the building, you know? And it does get scary.
You do make less money at times if it's slow or something, but it's it's fine. when it's slow and I don't have business, guess what? I can just be like, hey friend, can I come cook at your restaurant for the day? And they're like, yeah, sure. So everybody's looking out for each other and you don't have to be afraid of anything really anymore. Like just believe in yourself and go do it. Just do what you're gonna do, what you say you're gonna do and you'll be fine.
Sara Abernethy (1:02:24)
you know, thank you so, so much for responding to my DM, responding to my cold DM on Instagram. Thank you so much for meeting me and for, ⁓ and I just think you are so fabulous. I can't wait until our inevitable sauce party.
Anh Luu (1:02:37)
Huh.
Yeah, well...
Yes,
seriously, let's connect after this and plan it and see when we can do it.
Sara Abernethy (1:02:52)
love it.