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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast, where we discuss strategies to increase our VRI value, relevance, and impact. We're here to blend meaningful work with profitable success. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, here to steward what we call the age of humanity, to transform the way we work so we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request, if you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and then leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. Let's get into it, shall we? You know what I love about September? Other than living in the midwest? It's literally some of the most amazing weather we have all year is September is that weird kind of new yearish vibe, right? So the kids go back to school, so that's the new school year. And in business, it's usually when conversations start happening about the new year, meaning the next calendar year. But in terms of budget, planning and all the things that need to happen, in addition to having the holidays thrown in there, we got to start planning in September or January.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:35]:
And who doesn't love a good planning session? I actually had a couple of calls this week with clients that are having me come in and do a keynote, or at least a conversation. One's virtual, one's going to be live with their leadership team and one with their whole company to talk about the Business is Human framework as a precursor to their strategic planning. And here's why. It's such a simple framework, but so powerful in giving context and clarity about the goals and the planning. So let's just review it quickly, shall we? So Business is Human is two columns. On the business side, we need to control, measure, and optimize. We need goals, metrics, strategies, systems, processes, all of the good business stuff that is really about facilitating growth. I like to think of it as the scaffolding that needs to go up in order for people to know how to work together to grow the business.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:51]:
Now, on the other column is the human needs. Humans are personal, emotional, and social, and so the needs are very different, but they're both aligned to growth. So we as humans, we're hardwired with growth and ambition, and if we can build good scaffolding for understanding the human needs, we can bring those two things together for great results. But unfortunately, we often double down on the business side with more programs and more goals and more systems without really understanding how our human brain works and our emotions and all the things about our nervous system and how we make decisions which then lead to all the things that we want for our business. So if we can double down on understanding the human needs and then combine those with the business needs, everybody wins, literally and figuratively. And so I am available virtual live. Let me come in and have this conversation with you and your team to set you up to win for next year. Sound like a plan? More good news in the news about business.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:13]:
Actually not even new news. It was earlier this year. Gallup came out, came out with their employee engagement data and we're in an eleven year low. And employee engagement mostly in hybrid teams, remote teams, younger workers. I don't care how you slice it, I'm just tired. I'm tired of business speak. I'm tired of people thinking that we're going to get different results out of the same activities. I can't even subscribe to these publications hardly anymore, because I just get a more and more aggravated.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:53]:
Well, actually, I'm going to rant for just another second or two. When you read into these studies, the descriptions, companies like Gallup put these out to really give credibility to their products and services. That's fair. That's what we all do. Put something out there to say, this is who I am. Do you want to work with me? Nothing wrong with that. But as you dive into the data and the recommendations, you'll see things like managers are the key to employee engagement. Well, managers are more burned out than the frontline.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:31]:
It's like, oh, no, it's like given the keys to the prison, to the prisoners. Like our managers supposed to be so responsible for this because they're exhausted. And then you'll see things about managers need to motivate their team. But if you study motivation, it's impossible to motivate someone else. I guess because this is my job, this is my career, and I spend all of my time thinking about the neuroscience of behavior as it relates to. Sometimes I just roll my eyes and I think we're just recycling business speak with different terms and it's kind of the same old crap. But enough about that little rant, because we all have work to do and I'm here to help you get it done. This is supposed to be the inspiring part of our time together, but here is the inspiring part is our next guest.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:28]:
Kristen Mackey is our next guest. And the reason that I invited Kristen to come on the show is she also cares deeply and understands the neuroscience behind our humanity, who we are as a species, which gets at the heart of, well, how do we get engagement from our humanity? And Kristen has authored three books, I believe it is now about energy and frequency and our cellular system. And so you may have heard people say, you know, I really like so and so person. They just have good energy. And it's a phrase we use, and you immediately think, oh, that must mean it feels good to be around them. Or you might see something where it's like, yeah, they're just good vibes. And you know that that means that they're, it's good to be around that person. Well, there's actually science behind all of this because we as humans are a big ball of cells, tiny cells that are vibrating and knocking around against one another all the time.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:48]:
And based on the vibration of the way that our cells move, gives out a frequency. And so it really is science that says we give out vibes 3ft around our body. And so you know that walking in a room, getting next to somebody in a meeting, and you think, oh, I don't want to sit by this person. They don't have good vibes. They have, like, bad vibes because something is going on with them that has caused their cells to feel a little off. And that is the way God created us for safety, to be able to feel someone's energy. And I asked Kristen to come on the show and talk more about how she's using frequency and vibration in business practices. And so I cannot wait for you to hear more about this conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:58]:
But I also highly recommend that you go to her website, christianmackey.com, links in the show notes, and she's got some great downloads and books that you can buy that will help you really dig into this topic, because I think it's one of those topics that is the future of business. I don't think it is. I know it is. So just go ahead and jump on that band. Make it now. All right, here we go. Here's Kristen. Kristen, welcome to the show.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:26]:
Thank you.
Kristen Mackey [00:09:27]:
Thank you. It's an honor to be here.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:29]:
I am excited because I love this topic. It's one of the topics that I not only could talk about incessantly, I do talk about incessantly, and that is how our energy impacts everything. But specifically today, you're going to help us understand how understanding our energy really leads to greater employee engagement through leadership, which is an interesting take, I hope, for our listeners, because what I'm seeing as a coach to consultant and as I listen and watch things come across, my LinkedIn feed is. Unfortunately, a lot of leaders in this really poor employee engagement environment are doubling down on what I would call the wrong things. They're doubling down on control versus understanding what is fundamentally how connection works. So help us today, Kristen, how can we engage our teams better by understanding this idea of energy?
Kristen Mackey [00:10:38]:
Yes, absolutely. Folks have called me a change agent, and I like to go by the principle deception tests the rule. It's one of the Feynman principles by Nobel Prize Richard Feyman. And why it kind of is near and dear to my heart is that I love and study physics and quantum physics, and the sky is the limit with that. But to ground that down, I traveled to over 500 cities. I've worked as a leader, as a consultant, as a professional speaker. I started my speaking career at 25. And while I was on the road and interacting, I noticed these sort of patterns and rhythms with groups, with teams, with individuals, even one on one.
Kristen Mackey [00:11:19]:
And I started to kind of collect that data just from experience. I also had this habit of keeping a little journal or notebook where I would put, like, bests and next time. So what did I like best and what was really great about a specific engagement, and then what can we try next time? And when I gathered all of that, I started to notice that what the energy of how we carry ourselves as leaders, that connection that we have with our team, that energy that comes from, that correlated to better outcomes. And when we focused on, as I put in my first book, you can, you will, you did micro changes for macro transformation. When we focus on managing your particles, your energy, you actually, when you interface with other individuals, it's done with resonance and harmony, not unlike music. And so when I gathered all that information, I realized that the more we focus on that piece of it, the byproduct is employee engagement. The byproduct is great connection with other individuals. The challenge comes in is that there are so many nuances with people.
Kristen Mackey [00:12:22]:
I mean, we're so unique. We have so many different characteristics about.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:25]:
Us, unique and uncertain and.
Kristen Mackey [00:12:28]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we're human, as you put right. We're human beings, and we have nuances about us. And I often say we're like recipes. We have a little bit of this and a little bit of that and spices. When a great leader has the ability to pay attention to the nuances, to understand where a person is coming from, to attune their energy to that person, it's kind of an attunement. You get resonance to kind of anchor. Back to your point about that kind of control or connect, when a leader has so much energy around being worried about the outcome that they.
Kristen Mackey [00:13:07]:
They disconnect from that attunement. That's the energy level. Others can feel it. And I'm sure you experienced that as well, Rebecca, in some of the circles that you've had, that connection is something that you can't fake as a leader. And so that helps when we work into the leadership space and really making that connection.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:26]:
Oh, my gosh, I love this conversation so much. I literally have chills. I mean, that's how geeky and nerdy I am about it, which is why I was so excited to have you on the show. And I failed to mention we met each other. We both worked for the Franklin Covey organization, and that's how we originally met, and then didn't see each other for many, many years and was so grateful that you asked me to come and speak to some of your groups. And I'm thrilled to have this conversation. And what it immediately reminds me of when you say that you can't fake the attunement. You can't pretend like you care.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:59]:
You can't. You can't. Because energetically, our energies are exchanging and something picks. We pick up on that and we go. That just doesn't feel right. And I'm going to tie that back to a Franklin Covey experience. I was on the team, and you worked with many of these folks as well when we launched the four disciplines of execution. And I was traveling around the world helping organizations implement this process of strategy down to the front line with dashboards and metrics and all the numbers and all the things.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:30]:
And what I quickly realized is the teams that could, what I said could tell the story of why the metrics mattered got better results, they got better engagement. And so I started digging into that, and really what it was about was they cared more about the impact to the humans of how this goal mattered. They weren't just staunchly looking at the numbers and trying to get the metrics to move, and it was tangible. They could come and they could articulate why it mattered to the employees and to the customers and to the communities. And it's different. It's a different kind of engagement. My biggest question is, can you teach this to people who haven't historically been someone that has been more focused on the why it matters? Like, let's picture the leader that comes in and they've been trained. And it's not like I'm saying these people are good or bad.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:36]:
I mean, most people are a product of the way they were raised and rewarded and all those things. But what if somebody comes in and they've always been told, just pay attention to the numbers. Just pay attention to the numbers. Can you teach this? Can you teach them to care about their energy?
Kristen Mackey [00:15:50]:
Absolutely. 100%. And the reason I, yes, because I was there. I think it's excellent to do your research. And we talk about this in frequency matters with brain science and behavior based science and statistics, and my co author, Sean Herbig, at iqs research with employee engagement research. But when you are in that space with those individuals, the human connection is palpable. The challenge comes in is the training or educating individuals on the ability to connect the dots, connecting the dots between how my behavior, how my feelings are linking to the bottom line, and you know it as well as I do with the four disciplines. It's a beautiful illustration of how to connect those dots.
Kristen Mackey [00:16:30]:
And when we are able to connect the dots, a person starts to resonate with the value that that behavior offers. So if I'm a leader in an organization and I really want to get an entire organization on the same page, for example, I have two case studies. One is in a hospital where I was a director. The other, I was the director of performance improvement for a large resort in Miami beach. And one of the biggest things we talked about is how do you get everybody on the same page? And the executive group resonated with, this is what our outcomes, this is what our outcome is going to be. This is what we would like to achieve. And everyone communicates or understands information differently. My boss at the time, my supervisor, said, Kristen, you're like a dial.
Kristen Mackey [00:17:14]:
The way you communicate is that you have an ability to communicate at this level, this level, this level, this level. And I didn't know if that was a compliment or I don't know what it was. But she said, you're like a dial. You have this ability to kind of flex, and sometimes you get it wrong, sometimes you get it right. But my intention, and I talk about this in my first book, my intention was to reach the individual. And in my program, sometimes I would do something a little goofy or a little weird, but I knew, am I reaching them? And I think, to answer your question, Rebecca, can individuals who are not used to this kind of mindset adopt this mindset? Absolutely. If we can connect the dots, we're able to see the return on the investment. Folks are coming into their work loving what they do.
Kristen Mackey [00:17:59]:
They're committed to what they do. And sometimes those things are not necessarily tangible while they're happening, but they become tangible in the back end. And that's what I saw in a lot of my programs, my workshops, and even with my own team.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:13]:
I love that idea of it's kind of hindsight becomes 2020 about being able to do this. Give me an example of that for our listeners of how that would play out.
Kristen Mackey [00:18:24]:
Absolutely. Years ago, I was a director of performance for a large healthcare system and we were geographically dispersed. We had two hospitals in two different states. We had twelve different primary care affiliations. And I was charged with rallying the troops to get everyone on board for the first medical record that was electronic in history. Everyone was so afraid.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:49]:
I remember this movement, yes, we're putting.
Kristen Mackey [00:18:52]:
The medical record online. And so we were dealing with the barrier of fear. We were dealing with technology challenges. There were learning curves involved and we were dealing with the challenge of it being geographically dispersed and the nature of the industry. I think it's really important to know, and this is in frequency matters, know your landscape. So this example for healthcare may be one way of handling the landscape and in another business area it might be a little different. But what I decided to do is we had a group of individuals get together and we came up with catch the wave wave working at Visionary enterprise. And it was an internal branding campaign that got everyone on board to start to understand that some of us are going to be working on the business end of things, some of us are going to be working on the operational end of things, some of us are going to be working direct care with the patients.
Kristen Mackey [00:19:48]:
But we are all working at a visionary enterprise. And we made newsletters and hats and we had this wonderful kind of rollout internally. But where I sat in that while the organization was moving in this direction, I sat in the role of leading the executive group while the entire organization was moving in working at a visionary enterprise. And we identified, and I think it's very important. I think statistics are important. I think really doing our homework and our research is really important. But I identified through research and mentoring that if we focused on the ER, we would be able to leverage the work we did in the ER with the entire organization across the board. And it absolutely had metrics to follow.
Kristen Mackey [00:20:37]:
We raised patient satisfaction by a 381% and we had changes. There were leadership changes. We were able to navigate those leadership changes. And what I learned in that is if you want to work on really rolling something like this out in an organization, you want to hit it on three different levels. Where is the leverage. Where are the human beings mental and emotional atmosphere in that space? And how can we really help communication be simple and fun, where they can relate and connect? And is the leadership team completely in alignment with what we are doing at every single, for lack of a better word, to weave in the particles at every single particle? Every single particle is resonating in harmony, then you're going to get those outcomes, I hope. I kind of was a little long winded, but hopefully that gave some.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:27]:
This topic is so broad and deep and big. I think going back to the simple terms of reminding people that we as humans are a big ball of cells that are vibrating constantly. I mean, even getting people to acknowledge that in terms of alignment, sometimes I'll say to a leader, I'm working with a gentleman in a manufacturing environment right now, and I'm like, okay, we're going to talk about your cells now. And he's just looking at me like, oh, for the love of everything holy. And now he gets it. Now he gets the connection. But when you say leadership alignment, not only to what you're trying to accomplish as a company, but they also have to acknowledge that business results are going to come from an understanding of their cellular structure to some degree. Is that fair?
Kristen Mackey [00:22:23]:
Absolutely. We talk about this in my book. You can, you will, you did micro subatomic particle cells, macro transformation, and we have these five creative powers, but we say have a vision. The second one is attraction, which is to embody the energy that we want to see shed meaning, what are we going to adopt and what are we going to let go of? Align, which kind of piggybacks on what we just talked about, and then express that outcome. So, absolutely, managing your particles, managing your energy is such an important thing when it has to do with the human condition, because that's what we're made of, right? That's what we're made of, absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:23:02]:
And so the wave example was a chance for you to get everybody focused on not just here, the numbers that we need, but here's why it matters, right? So the why it matters taps into the part of our cellular structure that starts to light up the centers of our brain that get us to care. I talk about this in such, like, basic terms because I'm not the scientist, I'm not the person that has studied it to the depth that you have, but that's really what we're doing in that first stage. Right?
Kristen Mackey [00:23:37]:
I do believe that. I believe that we're made of energy. Everything is energy. It's physics. There's many laws that talk about how energy moves in waves, like catch the wave working at every enterprise. Right?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:23:49]:
Oh, got it, got it.
Kristen Mackey [00:23:50]:
And then our cells, our bodies, and if we really look at the cell and we dive into that cell, it's made of energy. And we know from a human perspective, we know when we feel good and we feel like we're taking care of ourselves and we're managing our bodies, and our vessel feels really great, how we perform and when we don't feel so great or we don't trust our leadership, and we start to retract and draw boundaries and that kind of thing, that also plays a role in energy. And I think it can be playful. I think at the bottom line, it can be playful. The particles can be playful, the cells can be playful. But as long as we connect those dots to the bottom line and the outcome, what I have experienced, Rebecca, just in the circles of doing keynotes and workshops, folks, resonate with the concept of frequency and vibration and energy. I think we're at a time in our history where it's okay to talk about that we're made of energy, and what does that mean? Right?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:49]:
Yeah. And I even love that. I can easily, and many are doing this in the world today, align that to what the Bible says, which is a really important part of the way I run my life, that they're not separate things. It's all in there. It's all a part of the conversation. So I agree. For such a time as this, I think it's the most important aspect of a post 2020 environment, when people are wanting kind of their lives back and want to be respected for that, that this conversation is even more critical than it would have been ten years ago. So, back to your wave example.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:26]:
The second thing you said is you decided that you were going to start with the ER group, and that was going to be the kind of ripple effect out to the rest of the organization. Why did you choose ER?
Kristen Mackey [00:25:39]:
For multiple reasons. One, observing one of the things that I did, I think it's important I have self trust. So I would sit in a lot of different departments and just observe the behavior. There was some leadership changes in the ER, so they were lacking strong leadership in the ER. They had individuals that were casual or part time, but we really needed a stronger presence of leadership there. But when it was the point of contact, someone that came in the ER was the point of contact in the entire system. No different, and I'm gonna get a little silly on you, but no different than the way we eat something when we go to eat something, it affects the whole body. Well, the ER is that entry point.
Kristen Mackey [00:26:20]:
And if there's confusion or a breakdown in communication, if mistakes occur, if the transaction or the transitions from that point through the rest of the organism or organization is a little bit choppy, we saw negative results from that. We saw negative results on individuals not taking the time to write out the discharge instructions correctly. So there was a lot of little nuances. But the ER was chosen from observation research, looking at just other hospitals, comparing the different systems where they felt you're going to get your biggest bang for your buck in terms of implementing changes. But what I personally observed when I was in there is just seeing that when the person was that vulnerable and they were that scared, and they were coming in and they were giving their trust over to an organization like a hospital, that is the most important point, the most important point of entry, where you're going to see a difference throughout. You can have service recovery in different points if something were to happen or a breakdown. But that main entry point was what I saw correlated with the bottom line in terms of outcomes, reduced nosocomial infections, discharge instructions coming really out well, and overall patient satisfaction.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:41]:
And I would assume that if you're working in a different part of the organization and you have validated that this works in ER, then there's not much argument to be had that it can work anywhere else, because in terms of the pace and the urgency and all of the things are just sky high in terms of what can happen, I would say that would be a good place to. To pilot and start something.
Kristen Mackey [00:28:06]:
Yes. And we also to kind of crystallize. We didn't pilot or just like, just isolate it with the ER. We did a town hall meeting where we included the entire organization in what we called a service excellence initiative. And we allowed everyone in the organization that it was not mandatory. I wanted to see if we can kind of attract or draw magnetize individuals into this service initiative. And we had standing room only, and so people were coming in, and that is when I knew this was a good direction. So tactically, we started in the ER in terms of where we were going to focus a lot of the structural changes and hiring the right person, getting some of those operational changes right.
Kristen Mackey [00:28:53]:
But the entire hospital and the entire health system, even two different hospitals, were completely in alignment with catch the wave, working at a visionary enterprise. And there was a lot of rallying for that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:05]:
You mentioned the word magnetize, which I love this conversation about energy drawing or detracting. And you said it earlier, when you were breaking down the cellular structure, is that we have to embody the. I forget how you said it. We have to embody what we desire. Is that how you said it? So describe for our listeners how that works. How do you teach leaders how to embody what they desire so that you become more of a magnet for the type of energy that you want in your organization? I mean, fundamentally, that's what we're talking about, right? Yeah, absolutely. How do we teach. How do you teach them to do that?
Kristen Mackey [00:29:45]:
Well, I teach them to anchor to their home frequency. We're using that language again. But their home, their core values. What is their home frequency? You mentioned, you know the Bible. Every single person has a set of values, and we know this from Franklin Covey. Everyone has a set of core values and things that really resonate with them, and it speaks to their heart. We talk about this in frequency matters. Start with the heart.
Kristen Mackey [00:30:10]:
If you start with the heart, the mind will follow very easily. We can download all kinds of things, podcasts, all kinds of good stuff. But when we start with the heart, we're starting with the core of who we are. We're anchored to our value system. And when we're in an organization, it will allow us the ability to say what is resonating and not resonating, and then we become that influencer. If we need to see an opportunity where we need to make a change, we can influence an outcome in a positive direction. We can ask the right questions. We can be brave and bold and come up with connecting the dots and make a great business case for a board meeting if we get five minutes on it.
Kristen Mackey [00:30:47]:
And those are the things that make a difference in an organization. But you don't have the. You don't have the engine behind what you're doing. If it doesn't talk to your own heart, having it speak to your own heart, being aligned with your own core values, knowing what resonates with you, you can either do one of two things. You find where you can resonate and magnetize those great opportunities, or you find there's so much dissonance that it's not a negative thing. It just doesn't resonate. And you go where it does resonate, because in physics, you're going to see the waves that come together with the similar waves create a bigger wave. And then when a wave comes with a wave that doesn't work, it becomes static.
Kristen Mackey [00:31:30]:
And so what we want to have in our organizations is we want to attract individuals that share our core values, share the values of the organization resonate in harmony with that. It doesn't mean we're not going to have conflict or challenges, but it does mean that it'll be a lot easier and a lot more fun to reach those goals.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:31:48]:
Absolutely. What do you think is contributing to this decline in employee engagement scores that are universally the worst they've ever been? What are you seeing as some of the big contributors to that decline?
Kristen Mackey [00:32:05]:
I think it boils down to change. I think individuals. I think it's three things. One, folks are more empowered. And after the 2020, folks started to get in touch with their values, their life purpose, their talents, their skills, and they want to access that. They want to express that in their working environment. I think another one is the landscape changed. And this is one of the pillars that we have in frequency matters.
Kristen Mackey [00:32:28]:
And when the landscape changes, it taps into our nervous system. Our nervous system, you know, something's different. We're freed and we're trying to recontextualize not only our own human nervous system, but we're trying to recontextualize our businesses. At the same time, how we do business with other businesses was being challenged, and I think that created a lot of folks getting disconnected from their organizations. It goes back to the principle that I mentioned earlier. I like to the exception test the rule. One of the principles by the Raymond principles is that sometimes when you're in an organization and you see that something needs to radically change, we have to be empowered to be able to do that. We have to be empowered to be able to question things and to ask individuals, is this the direction that we want to go? And I think when you do that and you are constantly hit with a barrier after barrier and you're not really being heard, and you know your talent and you know your contribution, and you, you sense your own value because you're starting with your heart, your value is always going to be in your heart.
Kristen Mackey [00:33:40]:
Then when you get in that organization, if somebody is not valuing you, you're going to find who and what does value you. And that, I think, is one of the biggest challenges that we have with turnover, with individuals wanting to try to work their hybrid work environments and trying to create new ways of working.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:00]:
Those are big challenges. And I don't know a single organization that isn't dealing with that in some way and asking themselves the question, how do I fix this? How do I make this better? And I love the direction of start with your heart. And I have said to leaders recently, why do you want to work here? And they'll just pause. And it's like they've been so caught up in looking at the numbers of the employee engagement decline, or looking at the numbers of the sales decline, or just looking at it as a problem that just needs to be fixed. And we are not machines here to produce. We are humans. And so helping them see, be reminded of why they came to work there in the first place has been helpful for some of them to get reengaged with the customers that they serve and the helping work that they do. Because if we're just focused on the problem, if you're just going in every day and you're saying, I got to get the employee engagement numbers up, or I got to get the sales numbers up, and that's all you can see, you can't bypass the heart.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:16]:
You can't bypass the desire that we as humans are wired with to serve and help one another. And if we can't come back around to that in some way and get back to what matters fundamentally, I think you'll continue to struggle.
Kristen Mackey [00:35:34]:
I couldn't agree more, Rebecca. I think that's beautiful, and I think it is such an important point. And often when we talked about service excellence or service in general, we discussed internal service really as the prerequisite to external service. And if I had to take a pulse check in an organization, regardless of the industry, I would be able to determine what the health of that organization was by the internal service and then the external, because you can't get it. They're two sides of the same coin. And that really, you know, that connection piece that you talk about, that human piece that you discussed, that really is what underpins the fabric that makes the organization so dynamic. When you have that connection, when you have that trust, when you have that fabric tight, it can withstand challenges, it can withstand landscapes changing or, you know, an individual being unhappy for a day or so or however that unfolds, I think it's such an important thing that if we have internal service, we're going to naturally have external service and meet the customer's needs.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:42]:
Yeah, it's one of the reasons that when I started my business, I made a really intentional change from what I had been taught in organizational development and all of my past roles and leadership roles. I help organizations get one company story that serves internally and externally versus the old way, which is you're going to have internal values, and then you're going to have a value proposition statement for your customers that is more outwardly facing marketing sales and then inwardly facing around culture and engagement. I'm like, if those are separate, you're already going to struggle because your internal organization should be designed to focus on who are we serving and why does it matter to the customer? Because we businesses don't have any inherent right to exist. You exist because you're serving and helping someone that's willing to pay you for that service. Right?
Kristen Mackey [00:37:41]:
Absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:42]:
If we don't align on the people's side of who we're serving and build structures that do that, well, it's already a disconnect. And so I don't think there's any accident that at the same time, our employee engagement numbers are the lowest they've ever been. We have the highest number of CEO resignations that we've ever seen in the history of business as well. And I think there's just a lot of, I can't do this anymore. And so I have such a heart for the leaders that are, that are in it, that are dedicated to making things better. And I think there's anything I want them to take away from your information today, it's go back and find the heart of it for yourself. Why does this matter to you? And maybe it is internally that you care about your employees. Maybe it's you care more about the customers.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:41]:
I don't care what it is. Like you said, everybody's values are different. We're all unique. But find something that you can put a big heart around and care about and then see what ripples out from that 100%.
Kristen Mackey [00:38:57]:
And, you know, sometimes I think, to piggyback on what you're sharing, there's a lot of, when we see these statistics, CEO's walking away. And I always go back to, because I'm a little bit of a science nerd, as you can tell. I'm certainly not a Nobel Prize winner or anything, but I love my journal and I love my physics book. But what I often would say in executive groups, I would say, well, if your body had three brains, would your organs get confused? So alignment is such an important thing. Organizations are organisms, and if something is happening in the body of an organism, then it's an invitation to step back and get to what is really happening. And your heart pumps the blood throughout every single cell in your life, in your body, your vibration, your energy. And if we're seeing these kinds of changes, we can have fun with it. We can bring it to light and say, okay, well, if we look in science, a single cell organism found a crisis point, and then it became a multi cell organism.
Kristen Mackey [00:40:02]:
Crisis points can be wonderful and amazing opportunities for us to think differently and for us to say, well, how can we anchor our values and align our values towards what we want to achieve as a business and be open to the principle of the exception tests the rule. And I think when we're open and we had and we give ourselves those, ask ourselves those questions, we end up with answers that might lead us to some solutions.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:31]:
I love that. And it makes me think about the power of stepping back to reflect on that bigger picture and our own energy and what we care about or want to draw a heart around. Because I find that because of what I said earlier, people doubling down on that, we just got to control it. We just got to control it that energetically. They're creating a barrier for people to not feel like they can trust, to feel like something feels off. If you come into work fearful that it's not going to work and that bad things are happening, no matter what the words are that come out of your mouth, it's the 3ft of energy around you that said to that entire room of people, oh man, dude is freaked out. And people don't typically open up and get really vulnerable about how to solve the problem with somebody that is freaked out. So how do you advise leaders that are in that state of being freaked out about these numbers and the challenges? How do you help them manage their own energy so that they can show up embodying what you really want from everybody else?
Kristen Mackey [00:41:56]:
I love that and I love the focus. And the question to manage our energy is about managing our nervous system. Our nervous system. You know, the way I see it is if your body had three brains, your organs would get confused. I often say every department in your body is like a department in an organization. And your nervous system is the IT department and the communication system, right? So, you know, you gotta, everybody's gotta.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:42:19]:
Keep it all together. Gotta communicate.
Kristen Mackey [00:42:22]:
We gotta communicate. So when you have someone who is, and I love your language because it's just so fresh and fun and freak out, when you have a leader that's freaking out, more freaking out on top of freaking out does not give a good outcome. So I think a couple of things. One, always take that accountability and work on what you can do as a human being to anchor your body, ground yourself, all the basics. And we know that we just have to put them in our rituals and our practices, eating well and making sure that we're regulating our own.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:42:55]:
But I'm gonna pause for a minute. I think we know that because it's all we think about, right? But I think if you and I walked around leadership in the world today and asked leaders of organizations, do you understand how to regulate or ground your nervous system? I don't think as many people know how to do that as we think they do. Am I crazy?
Kristen Mackey [00:43:19]:
No. No, you are not. No, I think you're right.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:43:22]:
You are, absolutely. Because that's all we think about. I mean, the minute you or I have something that doesn't feel right to us, we're going to go stand outside in the grass with our feet in the ground and take five deep breaths, and then we're going to come back in and be clear, ready to solve the problem. I often forget that not everybody is as passionate about understanding this as we are. And so, I don't know, I feel like we need a billboard in Times Square and a blimp that goes over every day that teaches people how to do this stuff. And I just. What is that your experience? Do you think more people are coming to the understanding of this isn't just woo woo, Instagram reels from yoga teachers? Like, this is literally the mechanism that runs your decision making every single day, whether you like it or not.
Kristen Mackey [00:44:11]:
It absolutely is. And the brain science, the research, the physical, physiological science and research talk about the link between the mind, the body and health and the nervous system and decision making and how we affect each other. And we know just from self, you know, evident experience, how you sit with someone and you. You trust or don't trust them. And I talk about this in frequency matters. Trust resonance, manage dissonance, and wait for the ding. And it's a fun way to simply talk about how you trust things that are flowing, are fluid and are healthy. And, you know, to circle back to what you mentioned, if a leader is.
Kristen Mackey [00:44:51]:
ISdev discombobulated and they're freaking out, how do they anchor themselves? And if they're not, and they're not aware of managing their nervous system, the key is, how is your frequency? I'm just going to say it like your frequency is rubbing off on your team. You have a frequency of. You have a freak out frequency, and it's. And it becomes playful. I did a case study with. Working at a visionary enterprise. We knew that there were policies and procedures and things that we needed to put in that were tough stuff and we had to roll up our sleeves. But making it so that it was working at a visionary enterprise, all of a sudden, it transcended the nuances.
Kristen Mackey [00:45:31]:
And so what frequency and frequency matters is about is transcending the nuances so that we can get to it doesn't mean we're overriding the right policies, procedures and linking those dots in the ROI. All that good stuff is necessary or we won't function. But if we can have language that overrides all the ways that we disconnect as human beings, all the ways that we're putting labels on others or feeling afraid because we don't recognize, oh, that's different. I don't understand that we really will hit the bullseye together. And I think that's what the work that I do, I'm really passionate about is. Like you, I have my spiritual beliefs. I do believe, and really starting with the heart and making an impact in the world. And I think happiness and health and joy are what most human beings, regardless of their title or the initials behind their name, really want.
Kristen Mackey [00:46:22]:
They want happiness, they want to feel joyful, they want well being, and they want to make an impact in the world and a contribution.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:29]:
Yeah, agreed. Agreed. And if you've lost touch with that, start there about your employee engagement. Right? Reconnect with something that gives you joy so you can start to experience a different frequency for yourself. And, you know, I think as individuals who now feel like they want their lives back, just said simply, after 2020, I will have somebody come to me and say, I just need to go get a different job or I just need to make this change. And I'll say, well, that may be true, and I'm here to support you either way, but let's not forget that no matter where you go, there you are. And so a lot of times what I'm finding is people are thinking that the change is going to make them feel better. But if we don't understand our own frequency and our responsibility for managing our own frequency, you're just going to take your same stressed out frequency into the new job and then be just as frustrated there.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:31]:
And then you had to fill out all new forms and get a new insurance card. And that's inconvenient.
Kristen Mackey [00:47:37]:
Absolutely. There is a wonderful author, Ken Keyes, that wrote the book handbook to higher consciousness. And one of the things that he says, and I put this in frequency matters, is that a lot of times we find as human beings that we're addicted to an outcome. And if we can have preferences versus addictions to outcomes, and that when we are anchored to security, sensation and power addictions, we need those outcomes. The security outcome, the power outcome or the security outcome, instead of feeling like we're so addicted to that we can have preferences and then we can become influencers in our organization, so that if we notice something isn't working, if we're not really happy with where we are, we influence our organization to change.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:48:20]:
Yeah, yeah. What happens when you are? Because I do have a couple of clients that have been in this situation that they were so attached, their identity, their sense of being in the world was so attached to their productivity and their outcomes, and they're getting it checked, all the checked off the list, working themselves silly in order to feel worthy. How have you experienced those types of scenarios? As you're working with teams, with those people that energetically are bringing that frenetic sense of themselves because they're so afraid of not performing, how do you advise them? Sure.
Kristen Mackey [00:49:06]:
I've had a personal experience where, when I started speaking at 25, I would go city to city, and I did everything from eight to 13 cities a month. And I was so focused on. I had great evaluations and positive feedback and repeat customers, but I was eating fast food on the road and not drinking enough water. And it was about the outcome versus the journey. And so what I learned at a young age, that it's very important, you know, and we. We learn this in the seven habits. The goose and the golden egg. Right.
Kristen Mackey [00:49:38]:
It goes back to the seven habits of highly effective people. The goose and the golden egg. I would, at Stephen Covey's work, I would definitely say, if you're in that space and you're finding that you're so focused to change your nervous system overnight is unrealistic. If you are wired to go that hard and fast for a long period of time, and that is all you're focused on, your entire system is connected to that narrative, that paradigm, that way of being. And I would advise someone to say, okay, are you deciding? Is that the way you want to continue to be? Or would you like to be something different? The being and doing is one, is, to me, the holy grail, right? If we can be and do as one. So I've had moments where I was doing, doing, doing, and then I've had moments where I was being, being. And it's not the best outcome. You know, you want to balance the being and the doing is one.
Kristen Mackey [00:50:36]:
And I have found that getting clear about, really, what is your nature? Your nature. What is your nature? Do you come alive in this space or that space? Do you come alive doing this kind of work or that kind of work? And if the person's nature, it loves the speed and the energy, then that is actually in harmony with their nature. They're not going to burn out the way someone else might burn out. That may be wired differently. And that's where frequency matters comes in, is that. That's why we had 25 different contributors, because I wanted to showcase everyone is so different with somebody that is a parent, somebody that is a single parent, somebody that is a CEO, a business owner, someone in scientific research, another one in HR. We're all wired differently. We have different natures.
Kristen Mackey [00:51:28]:
Plenty of studies and assessments out there to find out what our ways of thinking are. But if you are burning out, then you are working against your nature. And you said something beautiful, Rebecca, that I absolutely love is you mentioned how their heart is disconnected from it, and they are feeling like their worthiness. They're not worthy as such a powerful thing. They're not worthy of anchoring and honoring and behaving in the direction of their own nature. People can feel it. You can be flawed, you don't have to be perfect, but people can feel your frequency. And when you have a genuine, authentic frequency, you can move mountains and you can love your life in such a beautiful way.
Kristen Mackey [00:52:17]:
But too often we are trying to rescript what we have been taught for so many years will give us the outcomes that we need.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:27]:
That's beautiful. So true. You mentioned narrative, and that's a big part of it. Is are we attaching a different narrative, trying to be somebody that we're not? Do you think that comes from societal messaging or some apparent, or somebody well meaning that tried to tell us who we ought to be instead of who we really are? Where do you think that comes from when we get that disconnect?
Kristen Mackey [00:52:56]:
I think it comes from multiple things. I think absolutely it comes from a childhood upbringing. Our brains are sort of wired, and we have imprint vulnerability, those types of things. A child. So we have a soft computer. We get programmed a little bit. Society also rewards certain behaviors. And if you're in an organization and a bad behavior is rewarded, your brain is going to say, that's a positive behavior.
Kristen Mackey [00:53:25]:
It's being rewarded. And that may not always be in alignment with your values. So that is also a part of it. And then the third part of it is really thinking about knowing who you are as a person and knowing what your value system is and how you want to make those contributions. Sometimes it may not be where you are situated in your organization. I think we are naturally attracted to other individuals or other circumstances in areas that we ourselves want to cultivate. We want to cultivate. So if we are seeing someone with a certain skill set, we might be attracted to that skill set.
Kristen Mackey [00:54:04]:
It doesn't necessarily mean that's our passion or what we love. It may be something, a component of who we are. We want to develop, a component of our consciousness that we want to expand, a trauma that we want to heal or a blind spot we want to see in. And I think when we get into those spaces where we have that circling all the way back down to the exception test, the rule, are we really looking at who we genuinely are with all of that influence and getting? And you mentioned this a lot, Rebecca, in your work, and I absolutely love it. I love your podcast where you talk about stillness. And when you have stillness and you are in that place of quiet, that is where the noise of the childhood, the noise of society, the noise of the good and bad behavior at your job, the noise of the narratives in the news or in social media can quiet down. And then we can circle to the heart. And then once we have that, we fill our mind.
Kristen Mackey [00:55:07]:
And a lot of times, if we're going from the outside in, we're going to get out of balance. If we go from the inside out, we're going to find a better outcome for getting personal balance.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:55:18]:
And it is alarming the number of professionals that I've encountered that are almost afraid of. Of the stillness. They're afraid to go there. It's been so long since they've had any in their life that going there is scary. I had one client say when I told her her first assignment was a daily stillness practice, she was like, I don't think I can do it. I might need my money back. Yeah. Afraid to childhood trauma.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:55:45]:
Like, lots of stuff was in there. And she was like, I don't want to go there.
Kristen Mackey [00:55:49]:
Folks are afraid of pain. Who wants to dive into a swimming pool of pain? You know, whether it's trauma or a narrative or messaging or even society, the hierarchies that we have, the experiences that we have, some, you know, we all, as professionals, if we love what we do, we put our best selves into that space. We're going to have disappointments in our work environments. We're going to have things that go against our value systems. And then we bury that to keep going. We bury that to make the numbers. We bury that to keep moving forward. And I think there are sometimes pain that needs to be.
Kristen Mackey [00:56:22]:
There's a wonderful book called the untethered soul, and one of the things that it talks about, I call it slinkies. I forget how he put it, but the little wheels of slinky energy. And so when I'm dealing with somebody. I'm like, well, you know, you have a lot of dents and you have a lot of slinkies. We have to pop out the dents, and we've got to let the slinkies fly free. And then when that happens, you pop out the dents and you let the slinkies fly, you'll get a better frequency.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:56:48]:
And then when you get a better.
Kristen Mackey [00:56:49]:
Frequency, then at that point, we can polish our wares and we can get into the mojo of what we love and then really deliver on the outcomes that we want. But trying to do all of it and still have great outcomes, I think, is a lot to ask a human being. I really do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:57:08]:
I have a client that's, oh, gosh, we're probably on 1011 months, maybe a year now working together. And her original ask was, you know, just help me get to this, like, next level in my career. Like, let's go. And as we introduced stillness, some things started to unravel, as happens sometimes. And she. I was. I'm so proud of her because she allowed herself to go there. She allowed herself to consider that maybe her life needed to be something different than she originally thought it, that it needed to be.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:57:43]:
And so she went through this place, and she got to the point where she was able to admit, which I felt in her frequency immediately, but she wasn't ready to see it yet, was that she was in a really deep state of burnout. She had been going at that pace and ignoring all of the signs to the point that she had lost her ability to feel and connect with others, with herself. She was just almost in, like, robocop mode. And so friendships were hard, dating was hard, family relationships were hard. And all of that started to surface. And I just asked him clarifying questions and center on some reflection time. And luckily, her job had this hiatus that happened because of kind of client work that she was doing. She still had a job, but she was being paid not to work.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:58:33]:
Now, this is where I love faith. This is where I'm like. And God had a plan bigger than she knew, whether she believed in him or not, right? Like, he was like, we're going to give this girl some space. And that's what happened. And it was so beautiful to watch her courageously go into those places. And then in the beginning, though, she. When we talked about, you know, this is actually burnout. I showed her the studies.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:58:56]:
I showed her, here's the diagnosis. Like, this is it. And she said, how long is this going to take? How long before I just. And I was like, well, it doesn't really work like that. I don't know. I don't know. And as she started coming out of it over months, I mean, like you said, months. And she's just now in this kind of new state a year later, and she went to this new city to do this.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:22]:
So then the work came back. The client engagement was, took her to a different city, and she's a consultant, and she was like, I don't want to lose all the good work that I've done because I'm going to start traveling again. And, like, life's going to turn back on. And I said, you're ready. You got all the tools. You know how to sense it. Now you're feeling again. Like, you'll be able to feel it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:42]:
And she messages me when she gets to her first engagement in this new city, and she's so excited about the people that she's meeting. Everybody's so nice, and she's even noticing. She was like, men are looking at me. And she's always been beautiful, but she shut off so much of her frequency that she could not attract anything. She was just trying to control everything. And now all of a sudden, she was like, people want to be friends with me, and I'm getting, like, male attention and, like, literally her. And I said to her, your frequency is now attracting the kind of people that you want because you've become the person that they want to be friends with by allowing yourself to do this work. And so it is, yeah, so beautiful when you go into the painful parts and allow yourself to look at some of that stuff and then make some decisions about, is this still what I care about and who I want to be? It's just so damn beautiful to see the transformation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:00:50]:
It's just, oh, my gosh, that's beautiful.
Kristen Mackey [01:00:53]:
And it's so important. You know, when you go through those, you almost, and I'm sure you've had experiences where you get kind of walls, when you go through trauma or something difficult and you have these walls and then you fall out. And what I'm hearing is she's thawing out and she's starting to feel who she is. She's getting back in touch with her energy and her mojo. And that is an amazing thing. I just love stories like that of transformation. And, you know, we talk about it in frequency. Matters is our frequency is who we are.
Kristen Mackey [01:01:23]:
It's our signature energy, and it's unique. Every single person is unique. So what's going to work for one person? May not work for her, so she gets in touch with who she is. Now all of a sudden, people feel it, and they're like, I love that. Oh, people are looking at me. That's adorable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:01:40]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Getting messages from her just makes my entire day. But tying that back to the employee engagement conversation is when you, as a leader, are disconnected from who you are, it's gonna be really hard to get that leadership alignment that you were talking about. Right. And so getting the leadership team first aligned to what needs to happen in the organization and them being comfortable with their unique self and their nature and how they work and then learning how to honor that in each other takes a lot of intention and understanding. And so I love the work that you do and the books that you have put out to give people the science behind it, the understanding behind it, because we can't just go out and put a project out to HR and say we have to improve employee engagement by the end of the year.
Kristen Mackey [01:02:40]:
Absolutely. I talked about this with my co author that we kind of cracked the code in the art and science of leadership and employee engagement, where a lot of times we would focus on the leadership part of it when the engagement was the byproduct and the lag measure, it really is all one. And that transcendent language of frequency that we talk so passionately about is a way to transcend. You've got the art of the behavior, the brain science, and all that good stuff that comes with it, and then you have the science behind the statistics, the turnover rate, and what you mentioned about CEO's walking away from roles that they've had for a really long time and folks trying to navigate the hybrid work environment. It's so important, I think that when we have shared language on how to really make an impact in an organization, you circle back to the whole exception, test the rule again. I was so nervous, Rebecca, when I was at that children's hospital and I was doing catch the wave, working at a visionary enterprise. I remember thinking, this is fun, this is lighthearted, this is very serious. We're in healthcare, and it was 20 some years ago.
Kristen Mackey [01:03:52]:
Now I'm dating myself, but it was a very long time ago. But what I remember thinking, because I was so terrified, is this is going to be seen as silly and this is going to be seen as fluff and this is going to be seen light hearted. But wasn't. It was. It was a language, a shared language that overrode and transcended the nuances that are often in the way costly way of connecting people towards a goal, towards an outcome, and back to really getting great outcomes. And it is the energy and leaders that want to go into that space of being over controlling. Nature itself is not over controlled. And so we're going against, and you know this from the work at Franklin Covey, you go against principle when we go against nature, and it gives us better outcomes when we're in harmony with nature.
Kristen Mackey [01:04:46]:
That's just what I believe.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:04:47]:
Amen. Because if you go in with a controlling spirit, a controlling frequency, the first thing that people naturally want to do is deflect away from that. Like, as humans, we are not designed to be controlled. We are designed to connect. And so if that's the way you're showing up, it's going to be a rough road. Very rough road.
Kristen Mackey [01:05:06]:
Absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:05:07]:
So as we wrap up today, let's give our listeners, like, two things, two takeaways. So you want to improve employee engagement, you want to show up differently in your company, in the world. What are two action things or things that people can take away from this episode that'll get them started before they go out and buy your book and engage with some of your content?
Kristen Mackey [01:05:34]:
Absolutely. Start micro changes for macro transformation. Incremental change with paste progress. Manage your particles. That is how you will manage your particles. Incremental small micro changes. We often want to jump out there, but if we make those tiny macro steps for micro steps, forgive me, for a macro transformation, manage our particles, because frequency matters, we'll end up having the results that we want and it'll be a lot of fun and it'll be a lot more enjoyable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:06:06]:
Are there some that are universal? Like, I know everybody's different and everybody's path is, needs to be different, but are there a couple of those micro things that people could you find are universally helpful for people?
Kristen Mackey [01:06:20]:
Yes. If it, if you feel good and you something feels good to you, that is an indicator that it resonates with you and your individual nature. If it resonates and you feel expansive, if you feel retraction, it is a sign, right? Trust resonance, manage dissonance, and then wait for the ding. If you have a retracted feeling, do more research. If you have an expansive feeling, you're getting natural resonance. And so the more that we focus on resonance, that expanded feeling, that connection, that human connection with others, that is a great way to know you're on the right track for you. If you get a retracted feeling, it might mean you have research to do a blind spot or it's not in alignment with your core values and it's disconnected from your heart. So resonance, trust resonance, manage dissonance.
Kristen Mackey [01:07:16]:
And when you have to make a really big decision, keep hemming and hauling between resonance and dissonance until you get something inside of you that does a and that is when you hit the bullseye and that's the direction I need to go. And you have absolutely no doubt and you have self trust, love that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:07:36]:
So give yourself that space to reflect and start to pay more attention to what you're feeling and experiencing rather than just diving in with more hours of whatever it is you're doing currently. Exactly how can people connect with you? Your books are available everywhere you buy books, right?
Kristen Mackey [01:07:58]:
Yes, especially Amazon and then barnesandnoble.com and then you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn as well as my website. Frequencymatters.org is a great way to connect with me. And if you'd like to contact info@frequencymatters.org.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:08:15]:
As well and you've got some tools on your website and things that people can engage with that would be helpful as well.
Kristen Mackey [01:08:21]:
Absolutely. And lots of cartoons and downloadable things that are available to join the fun.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:08:27]:
Awesome. Thank you for not only being here, but putting this work out into the world. Like I said, I don't know of a time in history when it's been more important than it is now. So thank you for being here.
Kristen Mackey [01:08:40]:
Well, thank you, Rebecca. And thank you for the opportunity and all the beautiful work that you do. I love listening to your content, so thank you. It's an honor to be here. I'm not coming down. I never locked it on the ground. I'm not coming down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:08:54]:
Thanks for listening to this episode. I would love it if you would go to Apple Podcast and leave a rating and a review, and then you can go to rebeccafleetwoodhession.com and join the Badass Women's Council. And if you really want to take a deeper dive, join the movement of a thousand thriving women. There's amazing thrive tools there for you today. Love you. Mean it.
Kristen Mackey [01:09:15]:
I'm not coming down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [01:09:19]:
Hey y'all, fun fact, if you like the music for the podcast that is actually my son Cameron Hession, and I would love it if you would go to Spotify and iTunes and follow him and download some of his other music. My personal favorite is tv land.