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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode 192 i'm your
co-host mike parsons and as always i'm
joined by the man with the plan mr mark
pearson freeland good morning mark hey
good morning mike i'll tell you what the
plan today is to carry on our series on
happiness which i'll tell you what i'm
already learning a lot and thoroughly
enjoying how about you
me too i mean technically we should all
be 10 happier from our episode uh two
shows ago
uh we then added in a little reflection
i think that gets us to 15 happier yeah
and boy today
i think we're going to shove it into the
20s maybe 30 happier what do you think
mark yeah i totally agree today
listeners and members we are digging
into as show 192
tell ben shahar's happier
learn the secrets to daily joy and
lasting fulfillment i mean mike remember
when we had our show with dan harris and
we were reflecting on the title and
that was that was getting you and i
pretty pumped i think tal ben shahar is
doing a thoroughly good job in at least
having the runner up for the most
promising title within the series
i think you're right i mean who doesn't
want a you know a little bit of joy in
their day
but then on the
long term kind of uh thing
lasting fulfillment i mean they're so
big and amorphous
i mean i'm really looking forward to
breaking them down into things that i
can do so i can get a little bit of
sparkle in my day and feel good um
for the longer term so
i didn't know a lot about uh tal ben
shahar and his book called actually
titled happier i didn't know a lot about
it before we studied it for the show
mark but it promises some really good
thinking some really practical things
that you can do around happiness but
more importantly perhaps
he really challenges us
challenges us in a very moonshot way
that happiness really isn't pleasure
there's a lot more to it than just that
isn't it yeah i think as we were finding
out within dan harris it was
uh almost uh having a moment you know he
had that fantastic i mean not fantastic
for him but very vivid uh story where he
had this this panic attack and then he
went on his own sort of self journey to
understand a little bit more about what
makes him happier what we're now going
to see
as we dig into the world of talben
shahar is i think much more of a science
approach you know he was a a teacher at
harvard university and he ran the most
popular
life-changing course as some people
described it
to all of his students and it was
highly oversubscribed and i think that
revealed the intention that a lot of us
have when it comes to this
amorphous or most strange ideal of
happiness
yeah and as we're going to hear from tal
during the course of today's show
he reflects on studies research
references maybe even some advice from
some of the
self-help individuals that are out there
and he does this fantastic job of trying
to weave it all together so that you and
i readers and listeners we can all get a
better understanding of this
concept of this perhaps crazy idea of
happiness and how to be yeah yeah
how good how good and he definitely
what i love about him is
he has this idea where he's got the
scientific academic body of work the
practical application and also
he's not proposing to us the easy path
but definitely the path of more meaning
so mark i'm keen to get stuck in where
do you want to start yeah yeah i think
you're right if if there's any ever show
that's all about moon shots it's going
to be today's show with tal ben shahar
so let's hear from the man himself
talking about how he reversed his
unhappiness and also introduces you and
i to the idea of selfish or selfless
i became interested in happiness because
of my own unhappiness
it didn't make sense to me because
looking at my life from the outside
things looked great
but from the inside it didn't feel that
way
[Music]
we're told from a very young age whether
explicitly or implicitly that it's all
about success it's all about the
attainment of the next goal of the next
milestone
and yet achieving these goals does not
bring us to a happier place certainly
not in the long term
and i wanted to figure out what is it if
anything can lead us to a better happier
more fulfilled existence
and that is what i've been doing over
the past 30 years
looking for answers
[Music]
now what drew me to studying happiness
was of course first and foremost my
personal experience i wanted to feel
better i wanted to be happier
one of the issues that people have with
the pursuit of happiness is that it's a
selfish endeavor
or is it
because when i pursue happiness when i
contribute to myself i'm in a much
better place to also help others
the problem though doesn't lie in the
pursuit of happiness but rather in our
concepts
so is it selfish or
selfless
well it's neither in both
it's self full
[Music]
selffulness synthesizes the best of both
worlds
of selfishness and selflessness
and they work together reinforcing one
another in an upward spiral of
generosity and benevolence
because we have mirror neurons in our
brain and when we encounter an act of
generosity
that has an impact on us we're more
likely to then act generously and
benevolent
so giving is contagious
now there is a double standard when it
comes to cultivating happiness
in every other endeavor in life we
understand that we need to practice we
need to put in the time similarly with
happiness it's not enough to read a book
or hear a lecture or come up with an
idea as good as it may be for us to
become happier
what we need to do
is invest
invest time and effort
[Music]
invest in finding meaning in what we do
in life
go out and exercise
engage with text or nature
invest in our relationships
not just rely on the fact that there is
good chemistry or connection we need to
put in the work
when we put in the work
that is based on science on
evidence-based ideas
that is when
we increase our levels of happiness
and because happiness is contagious
we do the same for others
what an interesting uh juxtaposition of
helping yourself so you can help others
mark i think the risk when we talk about
this is that it can all become so
abstract
what kind of stuff is
do you think he is encouraging us to do
what habits
should we build
so that we can be more self-full
well i think immediately when i hear tal
break down this or his his
interpretation and
theory on
happiness
is similar to what we've
understood on the moonshot show when it
comes to management of people or
leadership
you cannot necessarily be the best
leader unless you work on yourself
you have to study it you have to put it
in practice you have to
like ken blanchard would say with my one
minute manager encourage feedback as
well as receive it
and i think what's interesting
and possibly a direction that i did not
appreciate we would go in with regards
to this emotion of happiness
instead it's something that you
physically work on it's a practice you
put in the hard work so when it comes to
like you say habits and and what to do i
think it really comes down to
the essential
rules of treating each other like we
would like to be treated you know as as
step one don't blame others for perhaps
the stresses that you might be having
because at the end of the day they
probably have stuff going on as well so
it's
down to giving each other benefit of the
doubt because that's probably what you
would like yourself don't you think
yeah and um
it reminds me of when we talked about
adam grant and he talked about
give and take and there's givers takers
and matches
i think there's this really interesting
idea about
you know fulfillment and and
satisfaction and feeling
uh complete and and you know
all of that uh sense of
realizing
your your potential
comes from giving sharing and helping of
others
but
doing so in a way where you help
yourself so you can help others and
that's like this big continuous loop
like
as somebody who is a husband and a
parent and someone who works in teams
i'm very mindful of
in order to contribute
you know i have to
put others before myself
but in order to to be
somebody who is generous and supporting
that i need to be in a good place
because if i'm exhausted
i just won't be able to bring my best
self and i can't support people or i'll
be just too i'll just be too tired to
help
and when when um tal ben shahar has been
you know a lot of people have questions
about this idea of this intersection of
selfish selfless which is called
self-full it's a balance
um
he he shares this quote from the dalai
lama and i want to read it to you and i
think this really kind of
uh points to something like if your
intentions you want to do the right
thing
it cannot come at too big a cost to
yourself because in the end you don't
end up doing good so here's the quote
from the dalai lama caring for others
based on only
on your sacrifice doesn't last caring
must also feed
you
now what i take from that is um
when
i look at
the work that i do
with colleagues and partners and clients
what i
invariably love
what i search for is the capacity to
work on something that not only that i
enjoy but to be in a place where i can
create some sort of value for the other
person it might be that we build a
product together or it might be that i
share with them some techniques for them
to build a product
to me that's the the giving
or
in the context here
of being selfless i'm i am giving i am
teaching in them
what i get back is
working together enjoying this but also
i in order to enjoy that loop of giving
and taking
i need to make sure that
i am sleeping eating exercising that i
don't have too much work on
so i kind of see this
self-full as the capacity
to
be generous to care to help people
around you to support people around you
but to do so in a way that
you get something back from it the
delight the satisfaction sometimes it's
acknowledgement or praise
if you're always giving and you get
nothing back i think that's the enemy
here right yeah yeah yeah exactly i
think if you are not getting any um
you know like the dalai lama would say
in the quote you just read if you're not
getting anything
back if it's not feeding you
if it's not feeding your um soul i guess
then
you're only doing it for the sake of
other people which is of course good in
itself but when you can similar to a
habit when you can see
or feel or give yourself the mindset
that
you know treating others as in in a
better way and caring for them then has
a positive effect on yourself i think
therefore you're more likely to do it
again
because you have started to built in
that ability to notice it is a positive
reinforcement on yourself and therefore
it becomes more of a habit
and easier right
easier that's what we're looking for
right yeah so i think like a flag here
is like if you find yourself
um professionally in a team
where
um the giving comes at a huge cost
or if you're in a personal relationship
where your giving comes at a huge cost i
think that's a flag to open up this book
from tao ben shahar and ask yourself
hmm
am i experiencing enough joy and
fulfillment
and
it can start you on a path of
investigation to ask yourself are you
are you kind of caring for others based
on only your sacrifice
or are you getting fed to and i think
that that's a great place to start a
second place you could go
is to become a member of the moonshots
podcast you can become our patron and
market is so exciting we are almost at
the tipping point we're almost at 50
members
and we get the chance to welcome a new
member uh today so i think mark it is
time to shine a light on all our
wonderful moonshots members right yes
the individuals who are learning the
secrets to daily habits motivations as
well as giving us all the support that
they can and we in turn give them a luna
powered dose of good karma goes out too
bob and niles john and terry nile
marjolin ken dietmar and marjan connor
rodrigo jasmine and lisa sid mr bondur
maria paul and berg cowman and david joe
and crystal evo christian hurricane
brain and samuela kelly and barbara bob
and andre matthew eric and abby josie
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deborah gavin and lasse tracy steve
craig lauren javier and daniel our brand
new member welcome once again to our
members and our supporters thank you for
giving us your uh support as well as
your
ears every single week and every single
month and mike all it costs is just a
simple cup of coffee a month isn't it
it's crazy and we really appreciate
uh your support because it helps us pay
the bills and um you know as our shows
get more and more popular
the hosting goes up the bills get bigger
um and uh it is so exciting to know that
uh we are our work is being appreciated
by you actually it feels really good for
us there's our little secret to daily
joy is right mark we we see or
literally
55 000 people every month just on the
podcast not on not including youtube and
the website
are tuning in and we love it uh
to see that because it tells us when you
become a member that we're creating
value that you want to support us in
this endeavor as we get up very early uh
every tuesday morning to record the show
don't we i mean it's like this is uh in
the early wee hours of a sydney morning
isn't it well and similar to what you
were saying previous mike with regards
to caring for others and and trying to
be the best version you know you and i
we're not going out late at night are we
we turn up
fresh-faced and rosy-tailed
to record our shows and that's really
just about putting our best foot forward
isn't it it really is so thanks once
again to all of our members thank you to
you daniel uh we really do appreciate
your support and if you do want to
support us head over to moonshots.io
go to the members section and then
you'll you'll get connected to patreon
and you can do all of that goodness with
just a few clicks what else what's going
to take you a little bit more than just
a few clicks is getting through some of
the challenges in life and we've got a
couple of clips now where tal ben shaha
is going to really kind of set up maybe
a challenging idea
that uh this pursuit of happiness isn't
as easy as you might think
there are only two kinds of people who
do not experience painful emotions the
first kind are the psychopaths the
second kind are dead
there is a false understanding or
expectation that a happy life means
being happy all the time
no learning to accept and even embrace
painful emotions is an important part of
a happy life and the study of painful
emotions is an important part of the
field of happiness studies
my name is tal ben shahar i'm a student
and teacher in the field of happiness
studies
there is a very important concept that
was introduced by nasim talib and that
is
anti-fragility
anti-fragility is essentially resilience
2.0
resilience 1.0 is when we put pressure
on a system
after the pressure is lifted that system
goes back to its original form
anti-fragility takes this idea a step
further
you put pressure on a system
it actually grows bigger stronger
we see
systems all around us and within us for
example our muscular system we go to the
gym and we lift weights
we're putting pressure on our muscles
what happens as a result we actually
grow stronger
we're an anti-fragile system
on the psychological level you know what
that's called
ptg
post-traumatic
growth
so where post-traumatic stress disorder
ptsd is about breaking down
post-traumatic growth is about growing
stronger as a result of pressure stress
it's anti-fragility
the role of the science of happiness is
to teach us what conditions we can put
in place
to increase the likelihood of growing
from hardship
mike i mean this is i think tal ben
shahar must be a moonshot listener if
he's not yet
i don't know
but i mean this seems bang on with where
we go with the moonshot show doesn't it
it it really really does and um
i think it's so easy to
to sit in our minds and think
oh
everything is so hard like you know
i i
for me it's the build of oh work ah
i have to work on uh
you know supporting uh my parents ah
then i have my partner oh then i have
kids like everything is calling on me
it's like it's work work work work work
work work and it's very easy to kind of
almost spiral
uh and just say why is it why is it so
hard right why do i have to fight so
hard to actually
get on the other side and i think we all
suffer a little bit from that don't you
like just like it feels like life is
permanently
like work in progress
well i think you're always when you're
in that mindset and i've certainly
been there as as we all do you're
looking for the next
relief on you the next attainment the
next thing that you can tick off the
list and move on and i think where tal
is leading us here
is to not always try and turn the page
try and get to the next thing get
through it grin and bear it and you know
maybe take it out on others because
you're feeling a little bit low or
unhappy
along the way instead what he's really
calling out with this idea of
post-traumatic growth and this this
resilience 2.0 from taleb's
anti-fragility
is
this embracing the embracement i suppose
of those experiences and those
challenges that come along the way
which i think mike you and i are both
thinking the same thing it's yoko
willing again isn't it yeah challenge
and and and we're so
um
tempted to avoid
challenge struggle and pain
and tal ben uh shahar says in the book
the the the pain
associated with the fear of failure you
know
is often stronger than the pain
of failure itself
i could believe that yeah how how often
i mean we're our own worst enemies
aren't we
it's mark manson with the subtle art of
not giving her a woo hoo
you know
we are
often uh we have more pain within our
minds as we're fearing a potential
experience more so than the actual
experience itself when you shift your
mindset towards
maybe embracing those painful
experiences
and instead you're getting something out
of it you're learning how you respond
to a challenge
where you might be able to grow
then suddenly it becomes almost
dare i say fun
yeah um
like for me it's like as soon as you
don't resist pain struggle and hardship
and just say oh
um
that is part of life
like once you accept
that it happens
and then as a build on that then you say
oh and that is really the path to reward
and satisfaction because
everything that you fight for it feels
really good mark manson talked about
that a lot
in the show we did on him
it is um something that joe rogan talked
about a lot who wants to win the lottery
because actually if you really earned it
and did the work how good is the the
millions the rewards that come from the
hard work
and uh there's this great idea from
from uh mark twain where he says
i've experienced a great deal of pain
and suffering in my life most of which
has never happened
ah now i like that
how good is that
but it's so true isn't it
it's so i think i think we're just
allergic
in many ways
to to pain and challenge
what we have learned whether it's
goggins or here today with tao ben
shahar
just accepting that it happens life is
hard it is not easy pleasure is not a
default right
as soon as you do that you've changed
your expectations and said all right so
it's going to be a little tricky it's
going to be hard i'm going to have to
soldier on there'll be times when i feel
like stopping but i can't i need to go
through it the beauty of if you accept
that
what we all know like to use what uh
you know tell ben shahar was talking
about you're in the gym and you're
working out
and you're
really going for it with the weights you
can feel
how hard this is on your muscles and we
know that technically there's a sort of
a tearing of the muscles and that's why
the day after you feel sore because the
muscle is growing back
but it grows back
stronger so this is the next big point
so if you accept the pain then you can
be prepared to get the reward on the
other side so let's have a listen to tao
ben shahad talking about what's on the
other side you can essentially situate
all our experiences on a continuum
so we have the you know on the ups on
the positive side we have you know joy
and and success and and fun and gains
and on the you know then we have the
neutral and then on the on the negative
side we would have
pain and sorrow and struggles and
anxiety
and most people think that
dealing with happiness is about dealing
with the the upside when things are
going well
um however happiness the science of
happiness can help no less
when things are not going well
so yeah it can help us go from a five to
a seven it can also help us deal with
the with the negative five and the
negative seven and in order to
understand that we need to understand
an idea that was introduced just a few
years ago
by nassim talib nassim taleb is a
professor at nyu
and he talks about the idea of
anti-fragility
and what is anti-fragility you know as
i've studied it i've come to call it
resilience 2.0
so you know so what is resilience 1.0
traditional resilience so to speak
actually a term that comes from
engineering and it's the ability of
material of something to go back to its
original form after pressure has been
put on it so we have you know a piece of
rubber we squish it put pressure on it
it's resilient it goes back or we have a
ball we drop it it bounces back this is
what resilience is about bouncing back
anti-fragility
takes that a step further
so if you put pressure on a system it
doesn't just go back to where it was
before
it goes to a better stronger
higher place
so you squish material it goes back and
becomes bigger you throw a ball it
bounces back up higher than it was
before
now the thing about anti-frigidity is
that we see anti-fragile systems all
around us
you know i'll give you uh just one
example or two examples one
physiological one psychological the
physiological example is your muscles
your muscular system you go to a gym and
you lift weights
and you're putting pressure on your uh
on your muscles
as a result of that pressure you go once
you go twice a week later you go again
and again as a result of the pressure
that you're putting on the system it
doesn't just go back to where it was
before
you actually get stronger bigger
healthier
that's potentially an anti-fragile
system
so this is physiologically
psychologically we also see it
you know so um most of my students in my
classes most not all are psychology
majors
and i always ask them this question and
usually i'm not the first psychology
class that that they take
so i asked them the following question i
said put your hand up if you know what
ptsd is
ptsd post traumatic stress disorder the
overwhelming majority of students
psychologists or not put their hand up
then i said to them okay great put your
hand down i have another question now
i'd like you to put your hand up if you
know what ptg is
now i'm sure many people from this
audience know what ptg is the
overwhelming majority of my students
have no clue
ptg
post traumatic growth
now here is the thing according to the
research by tedeschian calhoun
ptg is twice as likely to happen
as ptsd
twice as likely if
and this is a very big if
first you know about the possibility the
existence of ptg
so if you don't know about this
possibility well then it's unlikely to
or less likely to happen
the second thing it's to know what
conditions you can put in place
in order to increase the likelihood of
ptg you cannot guarantee pgg sometimes
trauma does lead to a to ptsd to
disintegration however if you know what
conditions to put in place you can
increase the likelihood significantly
increase the likelihood of growing from
trauma i mean mike again this is a
really interesting
and reveal
as we are within our happier and
happiness series
of the concept of what it means to a
struggle
and find things quite difficult but also
be come out the other side and maybe be
that a little bit more happier or at
least comfortable with the experience
that you've gone through
yeah and what he goes into in the book
is these five key areas that you can
explore
with ptg like how you can grow after
like a real challenge hardship trauma
whatever it is
i mean i think the um the first let's
let's let's have some fun with this mic
we'll kind of we'll get in the locker
room and let's let's
pep ourselves up and all of our
listeners i think
you go through something really tough
okay
[Music]
the first thing you can do is just say
i survived
like there is growth in that idea like
if it doesn't kill you it makes you
stronger and um
i really relate to that when you do like
a really intense
or long physical exercise
and you really push yourself
once you've got across the finish line
you're like dang
i'm still alive and i did it like i
recently did a marathon and my wife
posted
yep first marathon done no heart attack
still alive
thank god
shared it with all our friends
but but there's so much truth that you
can appreciate that you went to your
boundary maybe if you were goggins like
you went through what you thought was
your boundary and all of a sudden you're
like
wow
this is amazing like
after some enormous challenge you can
just have an appreciation for life
itself right
um
and i think the same is true
uh perhaps to a less clear
or you know transparent extent when you
do struggle with things in your career
you know i think you're totally right
with the with the physical element
but i think it's true from the
psychological piece as well isn't it
whereby you are relieved
to have survived you know it sounds a
little bit dramatic but i survived that
project or i survived that experience of
working with so and so
and yes it can help as you as you
reflect back on it can't it
and you know the second part is it's all
about relationships as well so
you know
very often we go about these things um
with others we're in it it's a team
sport life is a team sport so you can
look at each other and say hey we did it
so not only i survived but we did it
together and you can appreciate
the bond and the companionship that you
have with those
but
you know very much
what uh you know first time runner's
experience is like holy hell i didn't
know i could do that
what else
have i previously thought impossible
that now
might be possible if you had said to me
a year ago i was gonna run a marathon
i'd be like no way jose but now that
i've done it i'm like oh what else
um
and then you can start to say well you
know
if i built a system to go and do a
marathon or work on a really hard
project
well
then you know in yourself that you're
battle ready
so you can bring almost a confidence
from say something in your personal life
or on the sports field you can bring
that to your professional life because
you know you have that inner strength it
doesn't matter whether it's work or or
personal or on the sports field it's all
coming from the same place isn't it mark
yeah it really really is that personal
strength is something that you can
control
and
if you know and are comfortable with
where you can lean towards
and you know that you can rely on
yourself to experience and therefore get
through
a particularly difficult patch
that's pretty encouraging isn't it mike
and i think that in turn leads to
where the fifth
outcome of uh ben
shahar's
work on post-traumatic growth is this
spiritual change
because then it can lean into either an
area of you know
faith or it can in turn lead into an
area of increased happiness and the
maybe if if happier is the
all-encompassing word
it's comfort
it is the acceptance that where i am
right now is good i'm happy
unpleasant and it's that appreciation of
and gratitude of the now which i think
is is something again that we've really
delved into
with um
you know all of the work we've done on
being gratitude and in the moment
and
i think this is one of the big ahas when
we're digging into ben shahar's
happier is the fact that we can learn
these
you know potential patterns that you see
when you're doing something really
difficult like let's say a marathon
training
knowing that at the end you might have
this uh newfound appreciation for
yourself or life or maybe others is
going to help you and stay motivated
throughout that experience of challenge
prior to the event don't you think
absolutely absolutely and i think you
know we we use the idea of a marathon
just because it seems so daunting and
all of that but it could be a project it
could be um something you do at home
something with friends with your
community
or it could be in the in the office with
your your colleagues i think the point
here is
after going through a challenge and you
know to use this marathon analogy it is
traumatic on the body the body is like
you're running
42 kilometers
for three or four hours are you mad
the body isn't hating what are you doing
this is bonkers
and um you know those that last
uh five or ten kilometers those last
five miles
oh boy on your first marathon do you
meet the maker you're just like whoa
this is hard
but
the sense of completeness that you have
at the end
because it is such an intense endeavor
the the
satisfaction and fulfillment
uh when you finally can
stop knowing that you just gave it your
all is
epic awesome worthwhile and that's what
we just can learn from tal ben shaha we
should train ourselves on a two-step
process except that it's not all going
to be easy and that there's going to be
hard work and the other side of the hard
work the challenge even maybe the trauma
of it we are stronger for it and if we
can hold that to be true we can fight
off you know that those survival
instincts of take the easy path cut the
corner you don't need to because all
sorts of goodness is there and mark
something that's not nearly as daunting
is uh leaving a review for the moonshots
podcast but it is equally rewarding
wouldn't you say
i mean the reward if we start at the uh
the act you know it's quite a simple
little process isn't it mike if you
listeners are enjoying what you're
hearing and learning uh out loud with
myself and mike and the moonshots team
pop along into your podcast app of
choice and leave us a review or even a
rating
you can do that in the apple podcast app
you can leave us some comments and also
you can leave a rating within spotify 2.
and this really really helps mike
the result of that input which is
getting out into the ears of more
listeners around the world we hear from
uh listeners and and fans
very very regularly from all four
corners of the globe and mike i mean it
gives us so much motivation as well as
gratitude doesn't it when it comes to
creating the show when we're hearing
from our
listeners because we really are just
trying to put out a product into the
world that is providing some benefits
some information on happiness
productivity motivation we're learning
out loud and we're glad that listeners
from all over the globe are learning out
loud with us every single week but it
really comes down to the customers and
you guys and the listeners just giving
us a little rating or review because it
does that algorithmic work doesn't it
mike oh it's it's it's like it starts a
snowball effect and you know
uh in the last week we've had um lots
and lots of new listeners from wait for
this this is what a collection of
countries
norway india singapore hungary slovenia
vietnam
estonia nepal like how awesome is that
that because you guys get in there you
give us a thumbs up you give us a star a
rating or a review
this helps us to be discovered by people
all around the planet so thank you so
much and if you haven't had a chance to
do it yet open up the app right now it
literally i think it's like a three to
five second process
give us some love because we get love
back and that is what it's all about
now as we kind of turn our minds we've
we've kind of learned that there is
a certain need to get over challenge to
get over hardship to get through the
pain and the trauma because on the other
side
uh there's all sorts of goodness
and what is really important now
that we're discovering this system from
tal ben shahar is we're going to go next
level into some key steps that you can
take
in the pursuit
of happiness
now there is a paradox when it comes to
pursuing happiness
on the one hand we know that happiness
is a good thing whether in and of itself
or as a means toward other ends
at the same time we also know from
research by iris moss and others that
people who say to themselves happiness
is important for me i want to pursue it
those individuals actually end up being
less happy
in fact the more likely to experience
depression
so the paradox is that on the one hand
happiness is clearly a good thing
on the other hand
valuing it as a good thing is
problematic so what do we do
the way to resolve this paradox
is that we pursue happiness
indirectly
think about sunlight so if i look at the
sun directly it's going to hurt my eyes
however if i break down sunlight into
its elements into its constituents
i can look at the colours of the rainbow
so i'm indirectly looking at the
sunlight
enjoying it savoring it in the same way
pursuing happiness directly can cause
more harm than good but breaking it down
into its elements can lead us to enjoy
the indirect pursuit of happiness and by
extension to raise our overall levels of
happiness
[Music]
what are the metaphorical colors of the
rainbow when it comes to happiness
here we have what i've come to call the
spire model and it can trigger the
anti-fragile system
spire is an acronym that stands for
spiritual
physical intellectual
relational
and finally emotional well-being
spirituality is about finding a sense of
meaning and purpose in life at work and
at home
if you wake up in the morning with a
purpose you're more likely to overcome
barriers
when it comes to physical well-being the
most important idea to look at is stress
the silent killer
in the united states
more than half of the employees do not
use up their vacation time and even
those that do
close to half are still tethered to
their work
the problem is not the stress it's the
lack of recovery
with intellectual well-being there's
research showing that people who are
curious who ask questions are not just
happier
they also live longer
another important element is not just
asking questions it's deeply engaging
with material
it can be text
a work of art
even nature
relational well-being is very important
the number one predictor of happiness is
quality time we spend with people we
care about and who care about us
and it turns out the number one
condition
that we can put in place to increase the
likelihood of anti-fragility
of growing through hardship is the
quality of our relationships
finally emotional well-being
so embracing painful emotions is
critical but how do we then cultivate
pleasurable ones specifically the
emotion of gratitude cicero talked about
gratitude as the mother of all virtues
when we appreciate the good in our life
we have more of it
so happiness is much more than pleasure
happiness is whole being
these five elements together create that
sunlight
happiness
i don't think there is a point before
which one is unhappy after which one is
happy
rather happiness resides on a continuum
it's a lifelong journey and knowing that
we can have realistic rather than
unrealistic expectations about what is
possible
i do not think that things necessarily
happen for the best however
we can learn to make the best of things
that happen
oh mike i mean what a what an epic clip
that we have within this show i mean we
could have done a whole show just on
that clip right
we really really could have because i
mean we're gonna try and break down as
much as we can right but the thing that
stands out right away to me mike which i
think is is something to start with it's
actually something that tao says right
towards the end of the clip which is the
fact that happiness happy inverted
commas or feeling content is a lifelong
journey and once we have that in mind
we realize that we aren't rushing
towards it we're not waking up every
morning feeling unhappy because we're
not happy
instead once you accept that it's
something you just have to work on like
anything like a muscle like anything you
have to put into practice it's suddenly
i i personally think feels more
achievable and instead of judging
yourself
and how you're feeling today perhaps
instead you're looking
into ways and habits and mechanics that
can help you get at that little bit
closer towards that
destination rather than trying to be
unhappy with where you are right now how
do you hear from that
well i think um a big theme in his
pursuit of happiness is resetting
expectations
and i know this is something that i'm
coming back to a lot in the show but i
think this is where it all starts
not having and perhaps i was a victim of
this and that's why it's really jumping
out at me
is the reality of what he's saying is
like just be prepared for the harder
path
it's not going to come easy it's not
going to come instantly but it's
something that you have to kind of build
daily habits
for
um
and when i look at his spire
these five steps we'll we'll have a link
to these in the show notes which you can
get at moonshots.io
i mean this is what a playbook like let
me just play it back to you like
you know leading a meaningful life and
mindfully saving the present caring for
the body engaging in deep learning
nurturing constructive relations feeling
all emotions
mark i i think there's so many
great starting points to feeling more
satisfied
not only with life but just joy in your
day and a bit of fulfillment for the
longer term
what i was wondering should we try and
nail five habits
and to unlock these five steps
uh
are you ready oh yes
all right here's your challenge name me
one moonshot habit
to get a more meaningful life and
mindfully savouring the present
all right i think mike
unfortunately i'm going to be stealing
the one that you probably wanted to say
which is reflection
yeah it's journaling it's what we heard
with matthew mcconaughey last week in
the show
and what we're hearing from tal
if you don't give your time to recover
you're not necessarily getting the most
out of it
very good uh for the physical for this
is the p of the spire framework
uh what's one habit you could uh adopt a
moonshot habit uh caring for the body
and tapping into the mind-body
connection i mean it's got to be
exercised hasn't it it definitely does
and if that's too much for you you can
throw in a little bit of breathing uh
work
big breath work right yeah four seven
eight breath work very good for
connecting mind and body okay
intellectual so we're at the eye of the
s p i
r
aspire framework engaging in deep
learning where that would have to be
listening to moon shots right
exactly exactly it's it's learning
something new every day you know robin
sharma when we'd when we broke down his
5 a.m club one of the core pillars of
his structure strategy was to learn yes
learn something new every day it doesn't
matter what time it is you don't all
have to wake up at 5am but it's learning
something new each day allows you to
have curiosity and
encourage your brain to keep on ticking
relational this is the uh nurturing a
constructive relationship with self and
others what would you do there well i
think this is really encouraging us to
reach out to those people who are around
us whether it's teammates or colleagues
or partners and instead of
closing them out maybe it's staying away
from your digital
space i mean obviously digital
connections are great it's important to
pick up the phone and message people if
they don't know physically around you
but actually having the real life
interactions i think is what i'm getting
from ben shahar here
emotional this is the last one of the
spy steps feeling all emotions reaching
towards resilience
and positivity
what would be the habit you would do
there well obviously it's coming from
eckhart tolle and the power of now isn't
it it's noticing the present it's
some of the tips that eckhart had for us
you know even when you're brushing your
teeth it's the feel of the bristles it's
maybe the vibration of the toothbrush
it's the taste of the mint
with the coldness of the floor it's
really appreciating your sensory
connections to what's happening right
here right now the chair i'm sitting on
the warmth of the room the movement of
my laptop screen as you and i are
recording this show that for me mic is
is where the emotional connection's
coming from
well there you go that's
five practical moonshot habits you can
do to
get your pursuit of happiness with the
spy steps from talbin shahar in order
and going in the right way
but mark we have we have just one more
final clip and it it's a it's an
absolute cracker why don't you set us up
for the last bit of wisdom from tao
bencher
well we've certainly learned a lot from
tal today with regards to
self-fullness the acceptance of pain and
looking maybe not directly at the sun
but looking at happiness from a
different angle so let's hear from tell
just one more time today as he breaks
down this critical misconception
about happiness and his study of
happiness
back in 2015 i was on a transatlantic
flight when a question came to mind
how is it that there is a field of study
for psychology philosophy history
medicine geography you name it
and there is no field of study for
happiness
yeah there is positive psychology but
that's just the psychology of happiness
what about what philosophers like lao
tzu or aristotle had to say about it
what about what literature remarked on
happiness or neuroscience or theology or
economics
why isn't there an interdisciplinary
field of study that looks at life's
ultimate highest goal
i resolved on that flight
to help
create
a field dedicated to the study of
happiness
there are two main critiques
that people have for the field
of happiness studies
the first one is that it's superficial
the reason is that they equate happiness
with pleasure
so when people say i went to the beach i
was so happy or this ice cream
just makes me happy well that's not
happiness that is pleasure
happiness is much more than pleasure
it also includes our ability to deal
with painful experiences finding a sense
of meaning and purpose cultivating
healthy relationships and intellectual
development
the second critique
of the field of happiness stems
from the false understanding that a
happy life is a life devoid of painful
emotions
it's not it can never be part of a happy
life is the vicissitudes of daily life
overall happiness includes life's ups
and downs
the signs of happiness can strengthen
our psychological immune system
because as i see it
the role of the science of happiness
is first of all to introduce us to
concepts like post-traumatic growth
which is growing stronger as a result of
hardship
and second to teach us what conditions
we can put in place
in our homes in our organizations in our
schools in our countries to increase the
likelihood of growing from hardship
hardship is inevitable
what we do with a hardship
well here we have a choice
we have a choice mark
and that is really how we want to
perceive
the mindset that we want to have to the
ups and downs and i think what we've
heard today is tal ben shaha has given
us quite the road map
to face those ups and downs and we don't
we just don't have to start with
expectations of perfection but rather
simple habits that we can do every day i
mean
this is
on point moonshot kind of stuff isn't it
well isn't it fun
that the series of happiness
is already revealing such uh new ways of
thinking
of reflecting and looking at this
concept of happiness mike i mean it's
certainly much more than as tao was
saying in that final clip more than just
the feeling of pleasure or feeling maybe
joyful instead happiness is a journey
like anything in life it's something you
put in the practice the time and the
effort and then you get the result out
of it and i think what's really
surprising as we're going through all of
these episodes on the concept of
happiness
is how it's something that we really
really do need to work on both
physically as well as mentally i think
this is really uh enjoyable and
revealing isn't it
it is and he gave us a new acronym ptg
uh he gave us a framework of five steps
spire
of all of those which one's getting
gonna get an extra bit of attention from
you mark uh over the coming days
oh this is that well that's actually
pretty challenging one isn't it i think
it's this reveal that happiness is not
um a one-stop shop it's something you've
got to work on so i think for me
it's the e with emotional within the
spire model mm-hmm
healing the emotions being present but
also working towards
that major moonshot
mantra of resilience and that reveal of
resilience 2.0 with anti-fragility is
such a big takeaway what about you mike
what are you really taking away from
today's show
uh i think i'm a bit similar to you um
that spire
those five steps sound
very good and i think it's all about
just setting the right expectations
um so
lots of work to do there and um well
mark we're really in the thicker things
in happiness and i just want to say
thank you
to you
in joining me on this adventure where we
learn out loud and i want to thank you
our members and listeners too
for today was a big part a big step
in the happiness journey here on the
moonshots podcast it was show 192
where we studied the work of tao ben
shahar his book happier learning the
secrets to daily joy and lasting for
fulfillment and boy
it started with look
you have to help yourself if you want to
help others and that was the idea of
self-full
and part of our journey towards
happiness is accepting pain and
accepting that there is growth on the
other side of challenge we can
appreciate life relationships new
possibilities personal strength and
personal
and spiritual change it's all there on
the other side of any challenge so we
can lead a much more fulfilling life a
life that is those five key steps
spiritual physical intellectual
relational and emotionally good they can
be both good in the long term and daily
habits in the short term because we're
going to need them because life will be
full of ups and downs but if we hold
true to the science of happiness from
tal ben shahar we will be able to learn
out loud together we'll be able to be
the best version of ourselves and by the
way that's what we're all about here at
the moonshots podcast that's a wrap