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In this episode of The Silvercore Podcast, Travis speaks with BC born fishing legend April Vokey about hosting her own TV show, working with MeatEater, and her latest community project for hunters, anglers and foragers called Anchored Outdoors.
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The
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ensure you are properly
covered during your
outdoor adventures.
This week I speak with
April Vokey of Anchored
Outdoors, Flygal
and MeatEater fame.
We discuss her humble
beginnings growing up in
the Lower Mainland of BC.
And how she took her
passion for fishing to
become one of the most
renowned authorities and
celebrities in her field.
Don't forget to like
comment and subscribe so
that you don't miss any
of the exciting podcasts
that we have lined up.
So today I'm joined
by a home grown
Canadian fishing legend
and proprietor of
AnchoredOutdoors.com,
April Vokey.
Hello!
Welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast.
Thank you.
Now, I'm really excited
to be chatting with you.
I mean, we've known each
other for a while, we
text and chat back and
forth, usually about
work related things.
And I figured that
why not use this as
an opportunity to
get to know you a
little bit better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's long overdue
and it's so cool to see
you in your recording
studio right now.
Cause I feel like
I, I've been there.
I've been in your guys'
home and I've seen
all your cool toys.
Well, you know, this
whole recording studio
is a work in progress,
but yeah, if it wasn't
for COVID, I would've
loved to been doing
this face to face.
Yeah.
Well, it'll happen.
Again.
It'll happen.
Yeah.
For the listeners sake,
I'm just going to give
a little bit of an intro
here and then we'll kind
of get things rolling.
So in what would seem
like a relatively short
period time you've been
on the Steve Harvey show,
you've been on 60 minutes
with Bill Whitaker.
You've had shows on the
Outdoor Life Network on
the Discovery Channel.
You've hosted your
own show, Shorelines,
you've been involved
with MeatEater, you're
a brand ambassador for
Yeti and Patagonia.
You've got over 125,000
people following your,
every move on Instagram.
And now you are
running your
burgeoning enterprise
AnchoredOutdoors.com and
it deals with fishing
and hunting and foraging
and homesteading.
And I know you've done
a lot of podcasts and
shows and talked about
the whole fishing side
and as much as I'd love
to talk about that, and
I'm sure the listeners
would be interested
in that they can go to
AnchoredOutdoors.com
and they can
learn about that.
I mean, there's even
a Pacific Northwest
Fishing course there
that they can take it.
There is.
Remember?
Right?
Look it up.
I know, I think
he learned all the
tips and tricks.
I guess what I'd like
to really talk about
is how you took your
passion for the outdoors
and for fishing and
you've turned this into
a burgeoning multimedia
empire and community.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I mean, we just
live in February.
The show has been active
for six years now, but
it was time to take
it to the next level.
And so it's, you
know, it's, to me,
it is a community.
In so many more ways than
just our members, but
often, obviously also
the contributors as well.
It's just been a long
time coming and I'm
very proud of it.
When I'm looking at
that community is a
big word that stands
out to me because I
look at the people
that are interacting.
I look at the people that
are learning on Anchored
Outdoors, cause you've
got your Masterclasses,
which are really cool.
And you're right in
there with them too.
I mean, you're learning
alongside of the people
in the community, how
to use a bow drill
and make a fire.
And what's the one that's
going on right now?
You're tanning.
Fish leather!
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
All these, all these
skills, you know, it
was like, okay, I could.
I just got exhausted,
trying to constantly
find these classes.
There's you can go to
Masterclass.com and
they've got a million
amazing classes on, on
a number of different
topics, but nothing that
interested me, there
were no hunter gatherer
courses, outdoor classes.
I mean, I think Tony
Hawk and the gardening
guy were probably the
closest thing that
appealed to me there.
So I, I was, it was well
to find a couple online
courses here and there,
but they were all in
various websites and I
thought, you know what,
I'm going to I'm going
to take all these classes
and put them under one
roof and really be the
outdoor masterclass.com.
And so that's what
AnchoredOutdoors.com
is very quickly
evolving into.
And you got some big
names on there, too.
Some well
talented people.
Josh Niland.
Yeah.
There's a big name.
They've got to be
the best in that.
And for anglers, sorry
to cut you off, it's
just so exciting.
Like even Steve Rajeff,
the world casting.
Yeah.
Distance champion,
like he's, he's on
board and right now.
We've got a camera
man up North doing
Bob Clay, bamboo rod
building masterclass.
And it's just, it's
really cool because
everyone who, most of
the instructors have
been on the show.
And so we've gotten
to know them and I
think this is what's
so special about it.
Yes, we, they're the
best in the business,
of course we want to
know their skillset, but
how cool is it to learn
what they're teaching
after we've heard
their story, where they
were born and raised?
Why are they like that?
Why are they
so ambitious?
And really be able
to have their voice
resonate with us?
Because we know
who they are.
It just to me, it's
a richer, it's a real
rich environment and
it's the community that
I would want to be a
part of and so that's
what we're doing.
So you built it.
You said this is a
community I want.
Done.
I'll build, I'll
build it myself.
Yeah.
So speaking about born
and raised, you were
born and raised in my
hometown of Surrey,
British Columbia.
?? Surrey, what!?
See, I was Newton has
more of a Newton guy.
Well we were, we
were Newton first.
We were on 129th street,
yeah, that's right.
6336 129th street.
Actually, first we
were Delta and then
we went Newton and
then we upgraded into,
up into Fleetwood.
Right, okay.
Yeah, so you
were actually, I
didn't know that.
You, you weren't
too far from me.
Yeah.
I was about 132nd
and number 10.
Yeah.
That's sort of
where I grew up.
When people look at
your CV and I, and I
only touched on a couple
of things in there.
There's a lot of things
that you've done.
Coming from humble
beginnings, how
did you do that?
You just said, Hey, I
really like fishing,
I know let's just,
let's get 125,000
followers on Instagram
and just start rolling.
Like, where did it start?
Oh man.
Where did it start?
Well, it started
with having to
grow the passion.
You know, and, and that
was instilled in me
at a really young age.
You know, a lot of
people have already
heard the story about
my, my parents don't
really fish, but we
did a lot of, we did do
some weekend trips out
to Chilliwack or, you
know, we would go into
the interior and go on
those old stinky boats
and troll worms around.
And up behind Panorama
park actually,the
elementary school
back in the day.
Just up into the
right of our house.
It used to be all before
it was developed, it was
all acreage in there and
it was full of ponds and
so I would go on my bike.
This is back when you
could let your kid do
whatever they wanted,
so I would take my
mom's nylons, the
good old days, take
my mom's nylons and a
hanger and go and catch
frogs and salamanders,
and then bring them
back into our pool.
And that was really
what got me excited,
you know, catching all
these slimy creatures
and then obviously going
fishing, seeing the
salmon, learning that
salmon can, they need
to come through a river.
That's what, like
20 feet wide.
Then surely we can
intercept them, you know,
the mathematics work
and so that was where
it really all started.
And then from there it
was, you know, I'm gonna,
I'll skip past all the,
the rigmarole that goes
in between, so, you
know, school in Surrey
was, it got interesting.
And I was rolling with
rough, rough crowd.
Right, right.
And so I would, choose to
escape by going fishing.
And it was able to
give me that sense of
wild and the rebellion
that I really needed
without sniffing, you
know, starting cocaine
or being promiscuous.
And so when my friends,
when my friends were
going to party at night,
I would party too.
But then, you know, I
needed to get out of
there at a decent hour
cause I needed to A
sleep or B get to the
river before sun up.
So fishing was really,
I will forever acredit
fishing or credit
fishing, to being
my saving grace and
what kept me out of
trouble growing up.
You just had a passion
for that, but I know
a lot of people who've
got a passion for
what they do, making
it into a business.
I mean, you just
jumped out and said,
I know I'm going to
start guiding now.
I really like fishing,
let me get, let me turn
my passion to work.
Well, it was more
than passion.
You know, passion
is really loving
something like really
loving something.
Maybe you eat, sleep,
breathe it for me, it
was, it was the only
thing that kept me
grounded, but also I
really attribute it
to keeping me alive.
I really, really do.
So for me, it was
just a necessity.
I had to fish.
If I didn't go fishing
or just be outside,
right, be out in, in the
river and obviously if
you're out there, you
may as well go fishing.
I was not gonna, I was
going to end up like my
friends or ending up and,
and a lot of them, it
was in really bad places.
So for me, it was like
I need to be outside
okay, but I also
need to make money.
And so I was, I guess
at that point I was
still, that's right
I was still busing
tables at Olive Garden.
Actually, it was started
as busing tables at
Earl's and then it
was, and then it was
Red Robin, I was in
Guilford and then it was.
Yeah.
And then it was Olive
Garden, that was when
I became really, really
sick in the head.
And I guess it would have
been before Olive Gar-
sorry, I do it by, I had
a high school boyfriend.
And so at that point,
yeah, that would have
been still, really early
days, just after Earl's.
So like, you know, 16,
17, 18 years old and
going out to the river
after, after work.
Okay.
And it became kind of,
I was stuck between a
rock and a hard place
because eventually I
would want to, you know,
I'd want to work nights
and I'd also want to
go fishing in the day.
And I was starting to
get burnt out because I
would end up basically
not getting any sleep.
You know, I pull over on
the side of the road and
I had sleep or I'd sleep
in my car in the middle
of a, of a fishing day.
But long story short,
I just needed to
make a, I needed to
cut something out.
And I knew I didn't
want to be a busser or
eventually a cocktail
waitress forever.
Right.
Which is, you know,
what I ended up doing.
And I thought, well,
okay, what do I,
what do I want to do?
I've always wanted to be
a businesswoman since I
was like, two years old.
Probably like, honestly
like three or four
years old, I wanted to
be a business woman.
And the only thing I
really loved was, was
fishing and it was
all I wanted to do.
So I thought, well, I
better make a business
at fishing and how am
I going to do that?
Well, I need to be good.
So how do you get good?
You've got to do
it all the time.
And then how
do you promote?
Well, people need to
know who you are and
then it was all this
amazing, perfect timing
with social media.
It was when you know,
I was doing it before
Facebook, but when
Facebook came out,
I saw an opportunity
and I grabbed it,
you know, right,
wrong or otherwise.
I mean, we've all made
mistakes growing up and
I've done some really
stupid things and said
a lot of stupid things.
And people who are
from our hometown are
listening right now
and going, Oh, she was,
she has got a mouth
on her, you know, I've
done, doner and said a
lot of stupid things.
But at the end of the
day, I use social media
to help drive my career,
and the rest is history.
I got to imagine,
today's day and age, in
the commercial guiding
fishing world, you
see a lot of women,
not so much back when
you were doing it.
Oh yeah, no.
No.
So that must've been,
man that must've
been difficult.
Well, it was, and
it wasn't, I did it
to myself in a lot
of ways, you know.
I, yes, like the
number, there weren't,
there were no women.
So, you know, Kathy
Reddick was, was an OG.
So Kathy was there,
Denise Maxwell.
Right.
A handful of, of other
women, Adrienne Comeau,
my best friend, she
was, she was getting
started at the time she
was working at Michael
and Young's fly shop,
but I was still cocktail
waitressing every night
at the casino in Langley.
And, and for me that
was a business, you
know, I made my own
hours, I went in.
To me, it was like
rented space, right?
You've got you work as
many hours as you want,
you've got rented space.
You hustle as hard as
you need to, you go
with a budget or a goal.
I need to make 400
bucks in tips tonight.
I've got to hustle,
hustle, hustle.
I need to be out of
here by two or three,
because I want to be
first thing on the
river, blah, blah, blah.
And so I, to hustle,
unfortunately, there's
a certain book that
makes you more money.
I mean, I feel like
I was split, I was
like split testing
back at the casino, it
was like A/B testing.
Okay, so what's going
to get me more money.
Does my hair,
this color work?
I mean, I just, I
made way more money
as a blonde, to be
totally honest and.
Really?
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, and, and,
and the dress code was
we had to have nice
hands and I was a really
keen Sturgeon Fisher.
And actually, even at
that, at some point
a guide and my hands
were full of bait,
crusty, you know,
procure or just even
like crusty stink bait.
Right.
And so I had to have,
I had to cover them
cause you're dealing
with chips right?
Like I, even though I
was cocktail serving,
you're still, people are
handing you chips and
you're giving chips back.
Right.
And so the code dress
code was you had to
have nice, nicely
manicured nails.
And so for the only
way for me to have nice
hands was I had to have
fake nails to cover
my disgusting hands.
And, and so then
get off work at, you
know, 3:30, 4:30.
It depended on what shift
I was on, but usually I
worked the 10:30 to 4:30
shift, and then I go
straight to the river.
Well, I'm not going
to take my, I don't
have time to take my
makeup off, I gotta
get to the river.
I'm in a bloody,
bloody hurry and.
Yeah.
I still got my nylons
on and my hair is all
done and my nails all
did, you know, so for, I
just, I looked a certain
way and, and for a lot
of, you know, especially
guiding my first year
of guiding, I was so
excited to guide for
Sturgeon on the Fraser.
And admittedly, I worked
for a different company
at the time and they
kind of just threw me a
jet boat and they were
like, here, use this for
guiding your boyfriend
will train you at the
time that the timing.
My boyfriend
didn't train me.
Shit.
You know.
Yeah.
When we were on the
boat, we were fishing.
We weren't training me.
And so I didn't know how
to run a boat very well.
And my truck that I
had bought for guiding
season was a lemon and
I didn't know this.
So when I brought it into
Craftsman Collision in
Chilliwack the owner,
the owner there was like
here, your frame's bent,
but I'll tell you what
you can use my Hummer
for guiding, or like for
whatever you need to do.
And I needed
something to.
Wow.
That could tow a boat.
Yeah.
But it's one of those
new Hummers I'm still
working because I would
work all night and
then guide all day.
So I'm still going
straight from the casino,
now to the river for
my, for my first guiding
year, really in a jet
boat with a Hummer.
And of course my
employee at the time
has decked out the jet
boat with like pink
deckels right, or decals,
with his company name.
Of course people
are staring.
And then I'm this
complete dipshit who
doesn't know how to like,
get, you ever been to
island 22 in the morning,
trying to back your
boat up at 8:00 AM with
the rest of the guys?
All the clients
are staring at you.
All the guides
are staring at you
and you're, you're
learning as you go.
Right.
So, you know, and then
of course it's, you're
embarrassed and you're
insecure and you young,
you're young and you
say stupid things and
yeah, it was rough
the first little bit.
But, yeah, so anyway,
all of that to bring
back to your point
about social media.
Yeah, there were not
a lot of women back
then, and I'm sure
that if I had looked
a different way, I
would probably have
been better received.
So who knows if the,
what I was receiving
was based on me being a
woman, or just based on
the fact that I looked
very much out of place.
Hmm.
You mentioned being
insecure when you're
learning through
that process there.
And that's a word that I
wouldn't ascribe to you,
in the entire time I've
known you insecure is
not one of those words.
Is that something
you just had to learn
really quick to have a
thick skin or have you
been fairly headstrong
most your life?
Yeah, no, I've definitely
been head strong,
strong all my life.
And I wouldn't say I am
an insecure person, but
I, I can be insecure
about certain skills
that I know that I
have not put the time
in to be good at.
And in that case, or
about certain, like I'm
insecure right now about
the size of my bum, like
you're allowed to be
insecure about things
and it doesn't make
you an insecure person.
And so I, in my
opinion, anyway, that's
how I justify it.
No I agree
.
On the boat launch.
I was really in
secure for sure.
And just really nervous,
really, really nervous
about all the eyes
on me that I didn't
necessarily want.
Like, I, I, I don't know
if I, I definitely didn't
want that much attention.
That's one thing if
your shit hot, you know?
Right.
Yeah, look at me now!
But when, when you're
just learning, you
know, please just
stop watching, please!
You know, and everybody
wants to come and
offer an opinion and
you're like, yeah,
but you just, you're
just making it worse.
Like I just need
figure it out.
Just go away, I know.
It's, I'm sure
everyone's had that one.
I think family guy had
a good clip of Peter
Griffin tried to back a
boat into a boat launch.
He basically just
ends up running it
back and forward.
Good to go.
Yeah.
I didn't have any
crazy, I had one stoop
like I had, I've done.
No, I take that back.
I didn't a couple
of stupid things.
I was not a great
Sturgeon guide, but that,
that actually was great
for me to learn because.
It wasn't so much, even
that I wasn't a great
Sturgeon guide, it was
that I didn't care to be
a great Sturgeon guide.
And that's, that's what
it came down to for
me, that was really
the first step in
being a business owner.
So I always have believed
that you need to do what
you love and if it's
not in business than it
is, it's in life, but
you need to be happy.
That's really
important to me.
And it's the foremost,
it leads my whole life
and, and my business.
And for me, it was like,
okay, I did want a guide.
I did.
And I'm doing it because
this is what guides do in
the Fraser Valley right?
Right.
But then why do
I not like it?
And then I started doing
Salmon trips and I was
like, ah, I'm into this.
I'm really into this.
And then I started doing
Steelhead trips and that
was me, that was it.
It was just, that was
what I wanted to do.
And there was a
handful of Steelhead
trips available
through the company
I was working for.
And I just thought it
was time to branch out
to do my own thing.
I wanted to do more
Steelhead trips my way.
So that's exactly what
I did, I started Flygal.
I had had Flygal cause
I was a sales rep at the
time and I use Flygal
as my business for
write-offs and stuff,
but ended up turning it
into my guiding operation
and really that life was
never the same again.
So everything you've
done is basically
school of hard knocks.
You didn't have any
business schooling
behind you.
No, no, definitely not.
My yes, school of hard
knocks 110%, but my mom
is a, is a very, very
savvy business woman.
That helps.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She and, and not,
I wouldn't even,
more in like the
administrative side.
Right?
So like to this
day, my mom helps me
with, I'm all about
numbers and crunching.
So to this day, I'm
like, mom, I'm having
a really hard time
with my spreadsheet.
Can you please help me
with my projections?
And so she's kind of
been, always been my
little, like my coder
and it's cool because
we work together.
So I have always really
been in marketing and I
remember my mom telling
me when I was in high
school, you are, you need
to go into marketing.
And I was just
like, that's just
such a stupid name.
Like what's marketing.
It sounds like
you're going shopping
on a weekend.
No, I just, I didn't want
to go into marketing.
I should have, I guess
I did end up going into
marketing actually.
You did go into
marketting!
I did go to
marketing mom.
Mothers know best.
Yes.
Yeah and she, and so I,
she would come home upset
about things at work.
She was the big buyer.
She was in Langley,
but now she was,
she's retired now,
but she was the head
buyer for the city of
Chilliwack, or she was
first head buyer at
Langley then Chilliwack.
And she would come all
upset from the guys at
work because she also,
she was the big wig and
dealing with a lot of
those guys, and gals.
There was a lot
of stuff that she
had to go through.
And so she'd sit down
and together I would help
her craft her emails.
To go to her, whoever
it is, who's given
her a difficult time.
And so I learned a
lot through business
by helping my mom
through her business.
And then my mom would
also help me with mine.
So to this day we
still do work together
and, and I'm forever
indebted to my mom.
So yes, it was hard
knocks, but it was hard
knocks with the support
of a wonderful family.
That is so cool.
That's so cool.
It's good that you had
that, but you know, even
having all the support
out there, you still
have to take it upon
yourself to accept that
support and, and start
pushing it forward.
When we talk about
marketing, you've been
very, very successful
in marketing yourself
and marketing the brand.
And you've done it, I
mean, there's a few ways
that people can market
themselves and you've
done it in a way that's
very true to yourself.
I think anyways, from,
from, from my position,
looking in, you can
watch the Instagram
posts of people and
there's surefire
ways to get likes.
And the entire
process, from my
perspective anyways,
has been very honest.
Like you're basically,
you're, you're laying
it out there and it
seems to have been
really well received.
Well to me I
mean, integrity is
everything, right?
So if you're not true
to your word, then
what have you got left?
And I've, I really,
really believe in that.
And so you also need to
remembe,r when I started
using social media and
just Facebook, because
Instagram was, I mean, we
all were like Instagram,
none of us were going
to join Instagram, but
Facebook, it was really
provocative to post a
grip and grim photo in a
tight fitting cardigan.
It was different
back then.
So even when I would
go from the casino
and I had like, I had
this REI, or I guess
mountain equipment
co-op, thermal shirt
that was bright fuchsia.
And because I dare wore
a pink scarf to stay
warm on the Thompson
that was provocative,
or the fact that my
hair looked combed.
That was provocative.
Right.
It was different then.
Now, it's almost like
it's like watching
movies and media, right?
You have to just go
more, more shock factor.
Right.
And I feel like social
media now, everyone's
constantly trying to
push the limit and for
me, because that's just
never been in my DNA.
It's just not, like
I was already made
to feel really, not
guilty, but aware
of being provocative
with a pink scarf.
So the thought of
even thinking to take
my clothes off or do
some of the ridiculous
things that we're seeing
people do on Instagram
now, that just doesn't
register with me.
Right.
Now, I'm not against
it, in a lot of way, in
a lot of ways I am, in
a lot of ways I'm not.
But you know, it's funny.
I give grief to people
on my pack podcasts
all the time, quietly,
maybe subtly, just about
being an influencer.
But it hit me
the other day.
I was like, it really
is no difference.
I use my social media,
to yes share my life and
grow community for sure.
And I've made some
wonderful relationships,
but I also use it to
promote my business.
Now, why do I want to
promote my business?
Because I genuinely
believe in my product.
And I genuinely believe
that it helps people and
builds better community.
It's so win,
win, win, win.
Right.
But, but is that any
different to the person
who's using it to sell
product as an influencer
that they also believe
will help people's lives?
So, you know, it's a
real sticky subject
social media.
I think the big thing,
and my mom said to me
the other day, she was
like, how are you doing
balancing your, showing
your life versus your
business on social.
Right.
And, and she was
like, do you not get
any complaints that
you've been promoting
your business?
And I was like, but
mom the reality is
like, I want to share
my life, but I'm also
not in the business of
just, here look at how
awesome my life is.
Look at how great
I am, look at how
much fun I have.
And, and, and just
because, you know what
I mean, I'm in, I'm
in, I'm in business.
It's like, of course I
want you to follow me so
that I can inspire you
and we can get to know
each other or we can
take a course together,
but I am not in the
business of being like,
look at how awesome I am.
My life is just
so wonderful.
Well that just
alienates people.
Right.
It might be fun to
look at, but over the
longterm, I think that
just alienates people.
So I think staying real,
as much as I want to be
like, yes, I'm definitely
authentic because I want
everybody to feel real
and authentic, at the
end of the day I also
believe it's just part of
business as being real.
So it's one in the same
one in the same to me.
Well, one of my, and
it's, I think it's a
lot of people quite
liked this one post
that you put out there.
Do you want to
talk about Martin?
Oh yeah.
My cigarette ball
It's got nothing to
do with, with fishing.
It's got nothing
to do with, but it
has a lot to do.
Community.
With you.
Yeah.
Well, it's got a lot
to do with tenacity as
well and perseverance
and dedication.
Can you tell, tell
us about Martin?
Yeah,
So I, I was always
the girl in school
when I, when I went
to Ember Creek, that
was where I did my.
10 11, 12, Ember Creek.
I was a girl walking down
the hallway and I I'm
very proud to this day
that I knew everybody.
Like the guy, the Asian
kid in the corner, Gavin,
who didn't speak to Mark
in the band room, who
people didn't even think
could speak English.
Every single person
in that school, I knew
and, and really enjoyed
watching everybody come
together to do great.
And the teachers I'm sure
I was paying in the ass.
Like we didn't have a
female football league,
so I rallied all the
girls up and made
it really difficult
for them to say no.
And I was the one trying
to organize walkouts and,
you know, I was that.
Good for you.
I was that girl, but
I loved community.
And one of the things
that very quickly
became this communal,
this communal thing was
this, this I had started
making named Martin.
And so with back then it
was this thing where like
you could take cigarette
tinfoil and I don't
smoke, so I don't know
if it's the same, but you
would, you know, today,
but you would peel the
paper off of the tinfoil
and it would have this
bit of adhesive on it.
And so you would
use your hands to
roll it into a ball.
And I had heard
that you could sell
it for 500 bucks.
So I was very excited
about making, I needed
500 bucks who doesn't
need 500 bucks.
I mean, my car at the
time was worth 500 bucks.
So I was, I was set on
getting this ball and,
I can't remember why
he was named Martin.
Oh, that's right cause my
dad plays guitars and he
was all about the Martin.
The Martin, yeah.
And so we had Martin
and everybody who smoked
would start to bring me
these tinfoil pieces.
And I went to school
every day with a, like
the, you know, the
street what's that
chocolate, it's like
the something streets,
chocolates at Christmas.
It's like this, it
looks like this.
It's this tall, big
container of like.
Tobelrone?
Well, it's like quality
chocolate that you get.
Okay.
Anyway, that you get
at Christmas time and
so even the kids would
even pass it around and
be like, here, let me
take it for lunch and
they'd go and fill it up.
And I would spend a
bunch of time at lunch,
out there in the field,
picking up all these
tinfoil bits and the
teachers got to know
Martin and the cafeteria
tables had this kind of
like an orange peel top.
So I would, I would carry
a spoon in my pocket and
I would constantly be
rolling cause I can't
sit still I'm, I, I just
have I'm one of those
people will drive you
crazy cause I can't stop.
Yeah.
And so in class I could
stay moving by rolling
Martin and then I
would roll him on the
cafeteria table and bang
him down with my spoon
and really compact him.
And everybody
was fascinated.
I mean, I had teachers
given me tinfoil, so,
and Ember Creek is to
blame for Martin who I
didn't end up selling
and gave to my dad.
And now he's the size of.
He's like half the
size of my face and.
That's huge!
Totally hard.
He's like fully hard,
he's like concrete.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if people want
to see it, just go on
the, on the Instagram
account, check it out.
It's a, yeah, but
to me that's a lot
of perseverance and
the fact that you're
doing it to make $500,
that's much better.
That's that's the
entrepreneurial
spirit right there.
Yeah.
At a young age, I was
told I had ADHD and a
few other things and,
you know, bouncing
off the walls, always
doing something.
I can appreciate that.
I don't know if I
got ADHD, but it was,
maybe I do, maybe I
don't, I don't know.
But it is something
that I've seen in
other entrepreneurs,
is this constant drive.
This constant need to
keep pushing forward.
Is that something that
you would attribute to
your constant need to
keep pushing forward?
And do you get, do
you get bored after
a while and say, I
got to do something
completely different now.
Whoa.
Well, I don't know what
the word board means,
but yes, if I ever
start feel like I may
be getting what I assume
is bored, then yes, I go
and do something else.
So there there's nothing
scarier to me than
a human being board.
Totally.
I mean, we have
books, this thing
called books, right?
Let's be like, you
can literally be quote
unquote, board, and
decide tomorrow to learn
an entirely separate,
like a new language.
Right.
There's is zero
excuse to be bored.
And you know, I don't,
I'm not a doctor.
And I don't know anything
about ADD or ADHD,
but it's interesting
in reading certain
studies and people
who are passionate
about primitive skills
and hunter gatherer
skills, a lot of people
will say that that
is a genetic thing.
You know, something from
our ancestry where we
were, you needed to be
constantly aware and
not be able to focus on
one thing necessarily,
while out in the bush
even just to stay alive.
So there's a lot of
interesting theories on
the whole ADHD thing.
What about getting into
something like, you
really got into fly
fishing and getting
typecasted as, Hey,
she's the one that fly
fishes, no gear for her.
Or do you find it
difficult to, to not
get constrained by
the business that
you're building?
Yeah, all the time.
I'm constantly put in
a box, which is hard
because I did not
start out fly fishing.
I started out, I was a
spoon angler, tenfold,
you know, and, and I
would be sitting there
at night, procuring
my bait and cutting up
squid legs and constantly
playing with different
colored cures and borax
and all that stuff.
And I'm still really
into that, you know, I
still like to live bait.
I live part of the
year in Australia,
fish a bunch of soft
plastics and live baits
and all these other
thing, lures and yeah,
it's hard for me to
get out of that box.
I know people really
like to put me in a
box and again, a lot
of it's self-inflicted,
but you know, the one
thing that's nice about
anchor dot doors is it's
not about April Vokey.
Right.
Yeah.
Which was a big, very
cognitive decision
years ago that I knew
that I had to, I didn't
want to, I had made the
mistake of building a
business around myself
and that was a dead end.
And I knew that I
needed to take the
next step forward and,
and to be an, I was
just more fulfilled.
I didn't want it
to be about me.
I never wanted it
to be all about me.
Just like you, I
never, so Silvercore,
which is that the
main business, named
after my grandfather
Silver Armano, my
other grandfather,
Cornelius Bader.
I just took the
silver and the core,
put them together.
One was a VPD detective,
the other one was
an entrepreneur,
had a Bakery.
And I thought, you
know, I'll, I'll put
these two things.
What do they call it?
A portmanteau, when you
put them two together.
But it was very
conscious at that
point, I didn't want
to call it Traviscore.
I didn't want to make
it about me, because
my thinking was, if I
grow something and I
put all this energy into
it and it's so deeply
tied to me, how do I
take that next step
to do something else?
If I, if I want to stop
that or sell it, or so
I never had that dilemma
of having something named
after me, but building
the April Vokey brand,
you look at that as a bit
of a dead end did you or
something that would be
just too tied to you that
you couldn't grow pack?
It is a constant decision
that I make every year,
every single year, I
sit down and decide,
cause look, business
is all about trends
and trends change.
Sure.
And you know, 15 years
ago it, it paid to be
corporate or to appear to
be corporate, you know,
to be responding to us
or like we're responding
as our, us, we.
You didn't want to
look like you were a
single man business.
You want it to look
big, we're the big guys.
Right.
Now it feels, and again,
it changes every year,
but now it feels like it
is advantageous to have
your face behind it,
people want to know who
they're dealing with.
They want to
hear your story.
And so even with Anchored
Outdoors, which is
recently branded, you
know, it went live in
February and I was going
to leave myself off of
it entirely and had, you
know, I spoke to a couple
of people I respect and
they were like, you have
to include your story
because people want to
know the face behind it.
And, and so it
is a constant
ever-changing trend.
It's something that,
but with, with my
brand anyway, or
with our brand, with
Anchored Outdoors, it
works to have kind of
the face behind it.
But the focus, like at
least, you know, the face
behind it, but I want
the focus to be on all
the people with all of
those incredible skills.
And I think that that's,
that, that I'm doing a
good, I, we, cause it's
not just me now, but.
Right.
Myself, Tom, Jackie,
the team, I feel like we
do a good job of doing
that in, in bringing the
focus to other people,
even though people
know it's my company.
I think that's important.
I think there's like
you say, there is that
fine line between making
something that's so
detached from you that
you can easily replicate
it or something that's
so close to you that
you'll, you'll be
confined by it so that's.
Right.
You know, I don't know
if I ever told you, I
got to meet Bear Grylls.
Right.
So Bear Grylls has a
family life and the
business side and
he calls it BG and
Bear Grylls right.
So that's, that's BG
over there, that's the
whole Hollywood TV stuff.
And this is Bear
Grylls over here.
That's so funny because
when I do my projections,
cause every, and I've
done this now for
well, since 2007.
I'm all about budgets
and projections
and goal setting.
And I split my business,
cause I, especially a
few years back, I own
more than one company.
And I, if you look at
my projections, it's
like I had, I would have
one company here, one
company there, and the
other company was AV.
Yeah.
And that was April
Vokey, it was the brand.
Like she, okay so, and
I literally, to this
day I sit down and I'm
like, okay, that needs
to make that much money.
That needs to make that
much money, she needs
to make that much money.
Like, I don't even
look at myself like me,
it's that, that's part
of the company that
needs to make a certain
amount of income to
make something work.
That's funny.
What about if we
just switch gears
just a little bit?
In that whole building
of brand, you've made
the very conscious
decision to include
your family in that.
So you've got your
daughter, your husband,
that's gotta be tough.
Well, it's a mistake.
It's a mistake.
You know, no one's called
me out on this yet,
but that's a mistake.
So I, very much when
I gave birth, even
if you read my first
post, it says you will
never see a photo of
my daughter because,
because I respect her
wishes and she might
not want to blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, especially
with the internet.
I don't want her to
have all these document.
I'm such a bad mom.
I don't want her to have
all these documented
photos when she's
older and, and I just
am too proud of her.
So it's an Achilles heel.
I have to draw, pull my
head in sometimes and
be like, are you sure?
Are you sure if
it's like, Oh, but
she's just so cute.
Like I just.
She is cute!
But yeah, it's an
error and a mistake.
And in, it's probably
one of the things I
shouldn't be doing, but
I can't help myself.
So we haven't
talked about how
you made that jump.
There you are guiding on
the river and you said, I
know I want to be on TV.
I mean, come on.
How'd that jump happen?
Well, you know, I got to
keep it real and honest.
You know, admittedly
yeah, I mean, I always
wanted to be on TV
when I was younger.
Like who, who, who
doesn't back then
grow up wanting.
Sure.
To be on TV.
It was your at, at
that point, it was
your only outlet.
Right, yeah.
You know, there was,
there was no internet you
had just, if you wanted
to have your voice heard
you went onto television.
And, and so when I was
younger, I wanted to be
on television, but as
I grew up and evolved
and had more opportunity
with the internet,
that slowly dissipated.
But the television
series happened because
of what we were talking
about earlier with
this fear of boredom.
Well, there's a number
of ways that, I'll
take you down two
different roads here.
So.
Okay.
The television series
happened because I was
already starting to
write a book and the
television network had
said, we want to show,
they'd been wasting my
time for years of like,
we want you to do a
bikini show on a boat.
We want you to do
this show in that,
like, it was all just
ridiculous nonsense.
Right.
Finally, it must've
got desperate again.
Television is very
much, time's changed
by the seasons.
Sometimes the execs
want someone who's gun
heavy, sometimes the
execs want a woman host,
sometimes they want it,
it changes everyday but.
Right.
They must've been
desperate, they said,
we'll take whatever
you've got and I
said, well, I am
subsidizing, I need my
book to be subsidized.
So why don't we
do a television
series by book?
And they said yes.
And so I got to writing
the series QuickSmart
and wrote them this
television series
teamed up with Nick
Vujicic at VP Media
House in Ontario, and
the show was picked up.
And from there I was
still guiding and then
in my off season I
was filming the show.
And in, while I was,
while I was guiding,
it was able to keep my
brain spinning because
I was writing my series
while I was guiding.
Right.
But then the show was
over and we'd done
all of our filming.
And I was really
disappointed with editing
that I'd had all these
rich interviews and only
two minutes of them were
being used in the series.
So I'm guiding on
the Dea,n doing the
usual thing, but now
I'm not writing my
television series and
I start to get bored.
Yeah.
And that for me
was like, okay, I'm
not doing boredom.
So I got this idea about
doing a podcast and
I had told everyone I
would guide for 10 years.
And I meant that, I
always said I would only
ever guide for 10 years.
I've said that from
the beginning and put
in my 10th year and
immediately went to
work on a podcast.
Just like that?
Just like that.
You just picked up
a microphone and a
recorder, and you just
said, let's just start
talking into this
with other people, or
like, what was that?
Was there a big research?
How do I start a podcast?
No, no, no.
My first episode was
with Lonnie Waller and
so I had interviewed
him at my home or at my
camp in Northern BC and
was really disappointed
that his interview,
which is spectacular,
had been cut down.
And so I asked the
TV show guys for
the, all that audio.
And then I converted
that audio into
my first episode.
And then from there got
off to launched that one
in December, I think,
six years ago, and then
got myself the same,
well, it's a different
snowball mic, but just
a little USB mic and
started going around and
sitting down with people.
It was tough because I
only ever did, did my
podcast in person and
really worked hard to
have a beat just the
top of the top of the
top industry leaders.
So it was difficult
getting to a lot of them,
but, but managed, yeah.
And I didn't do a bunch
of research, I kind
of just went for it.
Just jumped right in.
Yep.
Well, it's definitely
worked out well.
And then you did
some time with,
with MeatEater.
Yeah, yeah.
So MeatEater came into
my life two years ago.
When did I meet you guys?
About, about that, yeah,
a couple of years ago.
Yes.
Yep, and that went great.
And then, you know,
as things do contracts
expired and I could
either stay on and not
own my, well own my
content, but not have
control over it in a lot
of, in a lot of ways.
Right.
Or go independent and
take Anchored Outdoors
to what it is now.
And that's obviously the
route that I chose to go.
Right.
And so you've got the
podcast Anchored and
you decided let's, let's
make this community,
let's make this, the
Masterclasses and the,
the, the website of
Anchored Outdoors.
And that's gotta be
one heck of a learning
curve, cause you went
infrom nothing, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know,
it's funny.
I just wanted to build
what I was craving.
Right.
And I felt like what
was missing out there,
I'm a new hunter.
And, and I'm a sustenance
hunter and I'm not,
and who enjoys killing.
I enjoy hunting,
looking for animals,
I enjoy eating.
I don't enjoy the
killing and I really
don't enjoy bro vibes.
Right.
I just, I get it,
I respect it, I am
all about manly men.
I think that it's
okay for manly men
to be bloodthirsty
and talk about it,
blah, blah, blah.
Sure.
It's just not what
I am interested
in listening to.
Right.
And so I wanted to create
a platform of, you know,
a community of people
and conversation that was
appealing, selfishly to
me, and hope that other
people felt the same way.
And wouldn't, you know,
there's a whole market of
people out there who feel
like that's been missing.
And so that's really
where the membership
started to pickup was,
you know, are these
people who felt like
maybe that what's the
word I'm looking for?
Tambour of
voices missing.
Right, okay.
Good word.
Thanks.
So now, February,
you launched Anchored
Outdoors, we are going
to be coming up on a year
in a little bit here.
What do you see in the
future for Anchored?
Yeah.
Great question.
More community,
way more community.
I started the Facebook
page pretty late
into the business.
Like the Facebook group's
only been around for
a while and I'm just
constantly in awe of
the people on there
and the community that
builds totally, it's
got nothing to do with
me, it's just everybody
networking, getting
to know each other.
They trust each other,
but they also trust
they, they, they
speak same language.
Right.
It's just.
Right.
It's just, everyone's
kind of on the same page.
Everyone's different, but
they all have the same
values as I think what
I'm probably looking for.
And I'd like to
really take that
to the next level.
So the Masterclasses will
always be probably front
and center because they
are extremely interesting
and well worth the money.
And they're beautiful.
Thanks.
They're well-produced
are well put together.
They're really nice.
Yeah.
You know, it was
important to me that
my, that our instructors
would be proud of what
they were putting out.
And I think it's safe
to say that we've
done that, you know.
I'd say so.
It's not me, it's it's
the whole team, right.
Is Tom is our
homestead coordinator
Jackie's our hunt,
our hunt coordinator.
It's the videographers,
there's a bunch of
videographers involved.
It's every, everybody
as a team and
everybody is proud.
Every instructor is proud
of what they've put out.
And the next step is
going to be interactive
courses, so being able to
do the courses together.
Cool.
Yeah.
That's important.
You know, a membership
is no good if
people don't use is.
Totally.
So it's important that
we, you know, if it takes
a team to do it together
and, and it gets everyone
inspired and excited,
then why not right?
Totally.
And then, I mean, I think
like anything I look
at, from my perspective,
looking at that business
model, that community
is the biggest thing
that, that, the most
valuable thing that you
can grow there, I think.
Yeah.
And it's so much fun.
Like we just started
every, once a month we
do, mon, so we do members
only fly tying nights and
they're interactive and
it's so cool that I'll
have a hundred people.
Cause you know, it can
only have a hundred
in the, in a meeting
and about a hundred
people on my screen.
And while the guest
instructor is speaking,
I can go through, and
teaching how to tie, I
can go through and look
at everybody's video and
then be like, Tom, just
real quick, you know,
tighten that hackle.
You know, Laura makes
sure that, let me know
if you need help with
the whip finish later,
and then they're chatting
to me and you know,
it's just this real,
you walk away from it
feeling so fulfilled and
so happy just to spend
just time with, you
know, special people.
I love it.
I've never been so happy.
That's fantastic.
That's really, that's
really cool to hear.
I mean, some people
get into business for
all the wrong reasons.
And my, my personal
thinking on it is, and
I've said it before.
If you're looking at it
to get into business,
to make money, you're
always going to be
chasing the money.
You're always going
to be behind it.
But as you getting into
it, because you want
to be able to offer
something of, that you
feel will be a value
to others, that you
enjoy, money is just
a natural byproduct
of the hard work and
effort that you put in.
And I always like to
see other people who
have similar business
ideas and they do it
because it's something
that they feel will
be a value to others.
No doubt in my mind that
Anchored is going to
grow into a even far more
successful than, than
where it is right now.
Thanks.
Yeah.
No, it's, it's
looking good.
Things are looking
really good.
Before we wrap everything
up here, do you have any
advice to anybody else
who's got a passion and
would like to build it
into their business or
follow in the footsteps
of the great April Vokey?
Oh, don't say that.
It's not me, I'm just
the, I'm just Oz.
I'm just pulling strings
while everyone else is
doing amazing things.
Just.
How about the great AV.
The AV, the AV, right.
There ya go.
My advice is, you
know, It's very easy
today with internet
and with ego, to paint
ourselves into a corner.
And I just think it's
important that, you know,
aspiring, a lot of these
people now, right now,
who might be listening,
may be creating their own
personal brand online.
And that's important.
You need that, for
that spreadsheet that
you can have your
initials as, you know,
part of your business.
But it is, I believe
in having a diverse
portfolio, like when
I invest my money, I
have a very diverse
port, like my money is
spread out everywhere.
I would never just
put it on real estate
or just put it all in
stocks it's everywhere.
And I think business
should be looked
at in some way, you
know, in a lot of
ways, the same way.
And so it's nice to
not back yourself in
a corner because you
won't always be young,
you won't always be
hot, you know, for a lot
of these young people.
Sure.
And I don't just mean
appealing from a, from
an attractive stance.
I mean, you, you
won't always be
the hottest angler.
You won't always be there
hottest guide or the
hottest man or whatever
it is that you're hot at.
You won't always
be the best.
So it's a good idea just
to have a backup plan.
And I think there are
a lot of people who
are business owners
at heart and they
might not know it.
And I would urge you,
anyone listening right
now, to really take a
deep dive into yourself
and look at things
that you did maybe
when you were younger.
Like for me, I was the
kid selling lemonade on
the side of the road.
I was the kid, when we
would go to the barn,
I was four years, like
literally four years old,
collecting horse tails,
you know, the plant,
the plant, crushing
them up and trying to
bottle and like mixing
it with water, trying to
bottle and sell perfume
to my mom's friends.
I remember taking paper
and putting it all my
friends were outside
playing, I remember Tyler
and Cameron Kerr and
all the kids playing in
the cul-de-sac and I was
inside with my paper.
I'm taping it together
and gluing pennies down
it, making it look like a
skirt that I could sell.
You know, all of
these little things
when I was younger,
I just wanted to be a
bloody business woman.
That's what I wanted to
do, but I didn't know.
I didn't, I didn't,
I mean I knew,
but I didn't know.
And maybe, I mean,
the sal- like, yeah, I
guess I, wasn't going to
start a big sale, scale
company when I was 10.
And so, I mean, I guess
it all happened in due
time, but pay attention
to those things, you
know, if you're out there
and, and you were the kid
wanting to sell things
or have a garage sale.
I mean, who doesn't
love selling at
garage sales or say.
Totally.
You love going to
Mexico cause you love
to barter, I mean,
maybe being a business
owner is for you.
And the other thing,
Travis, I think people,
you hit the nail on the
head when you were saying
you like to speak to
other business owners
who are passionate
about what they sell.
I don't even think
that that's an option.
Like if you don't love
what you sell, to me,
it's not even that
you're a businessman,
you're a sales or woman,
you're a salesperson,
you know, you're.
Right.
Selling and, and
I, that's just not,
it's not sustainable.
How long can you stay
selling something that
you don't believe in?
So I really believe that
for a lot of people,
this thing, who might
be unsure if they're
business owners, if they
just find something that
they believe in and pay
attention to the little
things that their past,
they might decide,
they might figure out
that they're more of
a business person than
they think they are.
You know, the other
thing I would say to
people who are thinking
about getting into
business, this is
really important times
have changed, right?
Like I was just telling
my husband this morning,
I was like, you know,
if I would have known
15 years ago that the
world would have all
these, like things
like automations and
the analytics and
tracking, it's just a
different world than
it was back then.
So for a lot of people in
their thirties, who are
like myself, you know,
late thirties things
have, have changed.
There is a lot, there
are a lot of ways
to make business
easier these days.
But one of the things
that I really want to
be a takeaway for people
is staying right now
is, you don't need to
get it perfect, you just
need to get it going.
And a lot of the people I
listened to in business,
this is an ongoing theme.
You know, you don't
need to get it perfect.
You just need
to get it going.
And like I had mentioned
to you when we were off
record at another point,
you know, fall forward,
fail fast, fall forward.
Figure it out.
It's, you know, one of
the, one of the first
books I read on business
when I was, I think
I was 20, as I read,
Think and Grow Rich.
You know, he makes
a real clear, there
is no failure.
Like every time that
you think you fail,
you just figure it out
what you need to do
differently next time.
And just because
something doesn't
work one way, switch
it around, don't
redo everything.
That's the first time
you put something out,
whatever it is, the
success of that is, is
just your, your first
attempt and now you
just need to tweak it.
And you know, it can
be something as simple
as a sentence here
or, timing there.
And, and you know,
this thing called
split testing, A/B
testing, run tests,
try things, see what
works and what doesn't.
So my, I guess what
I'm saying is don't
give up before you've
at least tried and
don't, please, this is
the number one thing
I see people do, don't
wait to get it perfect.
Just throw it on the
wall and see what sticks,
it's never going to
be the same anyway.
Everyone is like, Oh,
but I don't know exactly
what my business is.
I don't know what
my business is going
to be next year.
I mean, you ch, it
evolves, and you
never know how it will
evolve if you don't
at least put some legs
on the damn thing.
Well said, well said.
I think, you know,
there's a few things
you just took right
out of my, my head
it felt like and
better articulated it.
There's a very
successful Canadian
fellow who says done
is better than perfect.
That's right.
Absolutely because it's,
it's never, it's never
going to be, it's always
going to change and you
won't know until you
get the response and you
get the community and
you get the ideas and
you get the criticisms.
I mean, one of, I used
to be terrified of
criticism, who wants
to be criticized?
Now, that's some of
my, my best building
blocks are based
off of criticism.
Do you buy into
the praise?
I mean, like if you
give praise value,
that means you probably
give criticism value.
I gave it all.
I give all
feedback value.
Anybody who takes the
time to communicate to
me, provided that it's
done with mutual respect,
because I don't just walk
up to people randomly and
slap them in the face.
I would hope that
they don't do the same
thing to me either.
You know, all criticism
and feedback and
praise is listened to
and appreciated too.
I mean, how else
do you grow right?
If you're not, if
your ears aren't open.
So inspirational.
April, thank you very
much for taking the time
to be on The Silvercore
Podcast, always enjoy
talking with you.
Likewize.
Thank you.