Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Space Between – Heaven on Earth is a companion podcast to Awakening – Heaven on Earth.
Through intimate, heart-centered conversations, this series explores the lived experience of awakening — the questions, integrations, paradoxes, and sacred pauses where transformation truly occurs.
This is the space between knowing and becoming…
where Heaven meets Earth through honest dialogue.
Welcome to the space between heaven on earth. This is a companion podcast to Awakening Heaven on Earth created as a space for reflection, conversation, and lived experience. Here, we enter the pause between knowing and becoming, between insight and embodiment, between heaven and earth. These conversations are not about answers or conclusions. They are about presence, about listening, about reasoning together, about meeting one another honestly in the unfolding journey of awakening.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm your host, Aylor. Again, welcome and thank you for entering The Space Between with us. Welcome to the space between. In our last episode, we explored what it means to reclaim the sacred self. To begin letting go of the layers that have covered over who we truly are.
Jeffrey Aylor:And as we begin to reconnect with the deeper place within us, something else starts to emerge. It's not loud, but quietly. It's a sense of knowing, sense of clarity that doesn't always come from thinking. So this episode is called listening with the heart, inner unity, and intuition. Because once we begin to reconnect with ourselves, the question becomes, how do we listen from that inner place?
Jeffrey Aylor:Not just with the mind, but with something that's deeper than that. So Joel, Joe, Sherry, so glad to have us all back together again, this week for this episode. Missed you quite a bit. And I know the listeners will be glad to have you back as well. So when you I'm just gonna ask each one of you.
Jeffrey Aylor:So when you hear the phrase listening with the heart, what's that mean to you in your own experience?
Joel Aylor:Listening to the heart, you have to quiet the mind first, usually. It's it it it can be a default reaction to heart, but a lot of times it gets it plays second to to the mind, with the mind constantly talking in the in the logic and trying to figure things out. So if you can coming from the heart, basically, it's just it's kind of like your your default spot, and it's what we truly are. And we've a lot of times forgotten what that is and how that feels and how to react react correctly. Yeah.
Joel Aylor:That's that's basically from the heart is basically that that saying, essentially, that's our that's our core. That's who we truly are.
Joe Dermody:I think it comes from yeah. I mean, basically, the same thing that you just said. Don't don't think about it. Just almost react. It's go with your feeling, your gut instinct, your your first thought.
Joe Dermody:Don't don't let your logical brain get in the way or stop you from reacting.
Sherri Keys:I guess for me, your heart again, it's like your gut, right? It's like diddle what everyone has said, but it's the pure state of who you are. So if I look at it from that perspective, the outcome always tends to, at least from my perspective, makes me feel good because I know that whatever that is came from a good place. So to me, it's just being in that pure state of being when I think about it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, most people, they think. So where is it we think in our body? We think of our brain, right? So the process is up in our head a lot of times, and then we're talking about I've heard two of you make the comment that it's that gut. Well, okay.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, it's interesting because I think I've learned over the last few years that our gut is really a second brain. If not the first. If not the first. It may actually be more over overall more responsive. But we're not talking about the head, and we're not talking about the gut.
Jeffrey Aylor:We're talking about the heart, which is in the center of the two. Mhmm. And and sometimes I think we have to recognize that it's that I know within our Reiki training, the three diamond concept of heaven, which is in your head. Right? It's up here in the in your in your mind area.
Jeffrey Aylor:You've got the earth, which is in your or the hara, which is the the area in core of your gut. But then you have the heart diamond, which is that center place where the heaven and earth come together, and you you get that blending of the two elements that so it's not I guess in that case, what I'm saying is that I don't know that we want to dismiss one over the other, a head knowledge versus a gut knowledge of something. It's looking at both of them rationally and allowing them to blend in your heart to come up with what is probably a more holistic and better answer sometimes to circumstances that we might face. So really a great I think this is a really good lead in to our conversation today. I know Joel and I've had a number of conversations over the last many years about knowledge and how a lot of people have a head knowledge of things.
Jeffrey Aylor:They understand it from a logical perspective. They have they truly do understand a head knowledge of it. But a lot of times that knowledge has not sunk down into their heart, where it ultimately changes their life, right? Where it causes you to respond or react different.
Joel Aylor:Absolutely. And I'm guilty of that. It's taken me some time because I've always been very cerebral, always been very, very quick to understand things. But learning how to apply that in an actual interpersonal relationships is is a challenge, but it's definitely worth it.
Jeffrey Aylor:So as we go on further in this conversation, I think it's important for us to notice that intuition was really what we're talking about. You've got five senses that are natural senses, so sight, hearing, feel, taste, smell, so you've got these natural senses. But there's what most people refer to as the sixth sense, which is intuition, and a lot of people will call it a gut feeling or a, you know, you can feel it's something you just know. You just it's resonating within you, right? I think that's another term we'll probably touch on quite a bit throughout this is that it's it's a resonance.
Jeffrey Aylor:You can't even explain sometimes why you just know this is the right way to go or this is the right way to think or feel about something, but it is. It's resonating with you. It may help again to notice that it doesn't always come as a clear answer. It's not something that is smacking you right in the head as saying this is it. You know, sometimes it shows up as a feeling.
Jeffrey Aylor:Sometimes it's going to show up as just a sense of alignment or even misalignment with whatever it is that you're dealing with. So let's dive into this together as we go into these reflection questions. So first of all, we're going to touch on the ability to recognize inner guidance, that inner voice that speaks to us, and oftentimes, you know, can be overwhelmed by our senses. So how do you personally recognize when something feels true to you?
Joel Aylor:Yeah. So recognizing inner guidance, it's I mean, inner guidance isn't louder than the mind, and that's the biggest thing. It's usually quieter, much simpler, and that's something I had to had to learn because my mind can be very busy. For me, it usually it's usually shows up as being something very simple. But in order to to get there and get through the the internal argument that you have with yourself in your in your in your head, it you have to you basically have to quiet the mind.
Joel Aylor:And it comes usually in those moments when it doesn't it doesn't come forcefully, like you said. You can kinda find it when when things don't feel right. You kinda wanna if you can sit there and and and truly feel yourself and go within yourself and, in fact, find where it is or what it is that's causing this dissonance, there you can usually find it, and it comes through clearly. And it's usually it it takes getting out of your own way sometimes to to find that that inner guidance. Now that that that's an active process.
Joel Aylor:Sometimes when you're going through life and you have that gut feeling, that's an internal intuition. That could be your soul. That's your your higher self. Call it whatever you want. Something telling you, hey.
Joel Aylor:You've you've seen this before. You've felt it. You can tell what's what's the right thing to do, and you act upon it. At least you should. You should trust it because it does usually know best.
Joel Aylor:But if you have something that's eating you eating at you or something that didn't feel right, if you're able to sit still, able to go within yourself and quiet your mind, usually, you can find that that inner guidance again, and and you just have to kinda be listening while you're still.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. I also think that if I'm sitting there arguing with myself, I'm probably not doing something right. Yeah. Because a lot of times, I don't I don't normally argue with myself anymore. Sometimes sometimes, know, just don't really know what I should be doing.
Joe Dermody:But a lot of times, yeah, if I'm feeling guilty about something, if I'm not sure about something, probably not on the right path. Probably not not doing something I should be doing. But I think sometimes it's also hard. Sometimes it's just hard to to know. Sometimes you just don't feel it.
Joe Dermody:Sometimes it's hard to recognize. And, yeah, I think for a lot of people, if if you haven't started to take the time to to listen, It's really difficult. But I think it can it can show up in illnesses as well with your body. So as things start to manifest physically, maybe maybe something you're doing isn't isn't necessarily right or true. But
Jeffrey Aylor:There's a great deal of science that says when we hold things inside ourselves, that it will ultimately manifest itself in a physical way in the body. You know, the other thing, Joe, as you were talking, it made me think is I know all of us have seen different images of a person that has a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other, right, talking to them. And and sometimes they're arguing about, you know, well, yeah, you ought to do this, and you need
Joel Aylor:to do that. But if
Jeffrey Aylor:I were you, I would do this kind of a of a debate that goes on. And and that image is really trying to explain exactly what we're talking about. Mhmm. Where you've got you've got that inner self, which is the angel side, right? That's the core being the and then you
Joel Aylor:have ego. I'm gonna say both of them are
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you have the ego. Yeah. Right? Which is the other side that is telling you what the world thinks you should do and and what it wants based on surviving. And and and so you get these.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's the duality. Right? It's it's the concept of duality that a lot of the principles we touch on deal with. You've got this dual nature, And even the apostle Paul, it's funny because I was I was listening to a podcast that was talking about how he teaches in in the book of Romans in the seventh chapter about the warfare, the inner warfare that we have. And it's that internal speaking.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's that internal battle of the divine within us and the ego trying to survive. And it and it's constant. It's
Joel Aylor:That's why I think, honestly, those two that that image, both sides is still one thing. I think it's still just the mind talking to itself.
Jeffrey Aylor:What is it is? It's two half of them implying one.
Joel Aylor:Right? Right. You're implying one's right, one's wrong, one's good, one's bad. I think that's still strictly just the ego chatting with itself. I think what you're what we're talking about, that inner stillness, that inner guidance is sitting there not saying anything because it doesn't need to.
Joel Aylor:It doesn't need to defend itself.
Jeffrey Aylor:In many cases.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. So, yeah, so that I think if you can get those two to be quiet,
Jeffrey Aylor:then it It's like it's the third person there that says, hey. Would you all cut up?
Joel Aylor:You're the you're the observer behind the observing doing the behind the yeah.
Joe Dermody:But I think too sometimes you can have a couple choices, and they could you could have more than one right decision to make as well. I mean or they could both be good choices. Maybe one's better than the other, but that's also the problem. Right? It it's like a choose your own adventure where you could have a couple adventures that could be good and, you know, beneficial.
Joe Dermody:And and it's hard to choose. Right? It's, not always an easy black and white, path that we're on. A lot a lot of us travel gray paths, and that's okay. Right?
Joe Dermody:You don't have to be on a pure white path all the time. Matter of fact, most of the time there's not a pure white path that you can travel. We just try to pick the best path we can.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, the way we choose is it's just a way. It's not the one. That's right. Right? There's multiple choices we could make.
Jeffrey Aylor:It also makes me think of video games. You think about in a video game, how many how many times are you faced with making a decision about going this way or going that way? Yeah. And both realities exist within the game. Yep.
Jeffrey Aylor:If you choose to go this way, that's where the game will take you. If you choose to go this way. And I think our life is that way. All both of those dimensions exist. They're actually going on simultaneously, and we'll touch on this in the next couple weeks because we are going to touch on time in one of our next episodes, which I am so excited.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's just fascinating. I know Joel's reading the books, The Wheel of Time, and I know Joe, you've read those books. Talk about woo woo concepts.
Joel Aylor:It's going to
Jeffrey Aylor:get a little woo woo. So Sherry, would you please bring us back to earth here?
Joel Aylor:Ground us Sherry. Ground us.
Sherri Keys:Oh my gosh. Weight is on my shoulders, man. What can I do with this? It truly is an internal conversation, a battle internally with all the noise and your walking, your faith and your insecurities. As you guys were talking, just thinking about this in my own current situation that I wanted to kind of reflect on a little bit from a perspective of family, medical challenges that are currently going on actually now.
Sherri Keys:It wasn't until I So it was a struggle. You hear the science, you hear the logical way that people think you should feel and you allow that noise to come in a little bit. But then it's not until you get into that quiet space and start really kind of trusting in your faith, that for me is when I was able to feel a sense of calm, a sense of, you know what? This feels good. This is a it's all gonna be okay.
Sherri Keys:This feels right. It wasn't until I can get in that space that I was able to to move forward and moving forward felt good. So it's it's a you know, I I I feel like when you made that right decision, how difficult it may or may not be with all the noise, the one outcome is that no matter what, it just felt good at the time and what you were making it. You feel good about it.
Jeffrey Aylor:And You feel a sense of relief too Yes. Don't you? When you just say, okay. I'm now I've given I'm I'm giving over to this. Everything's okay.
Jeffrey Aylor:Universe has us. God's got us. Everything is fine.
Sherri Keys:Well, things are fine.
Jeffrey Aylor:So let's touch on the difference between mind and heart. Where have you experienced moments where what made sense logically just didn't feel right internally? Where you get that Joel's used the term cognitive dissonance a number of different times, and that's exactly what this is the battle between heart and mind sometimes.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. And that kinda goes back to the you know, understanding something logically, but not having a heart knowledge of it. And I'm that's something that I'm working on currently and and and just deal with day in and day out where, logically, I understand something, and this is the way I think it should be. I understand this is how this process works. Let's make it happen.
Joel Aylor:But I don't under but I I lose something if I don't pay attention to, you know, how it affects somebody or why is it that they won't want don't wanna do it. Or, you know, that you take the human out of the the equation, and all of a sudden, you know, it's the logic is fine. But if you put the human back in, now you've got basically a whole lot more complicated situation. And that's not a bad thing. It's just you gotta have you gotta bring another set of tools to it, you gotta understand from a heart perspective, what are they going through?
Joel Aylor:What are you going through yourself? All of it is, you know, in play here. It all intertwines, and it's all important. So I I've had to learn that in my new roles at my job and as a as a father as well, as a husband. All of it is there.
Joel Aylor:So, I mean, I understand something logically, but I have to learn how to to handle it from the my my true self, come from a place of love, from a place of understanding someone else other than just what my mind says. This is the way it should be. So, I mean, logic can explain a lot, but it doesn't always capture the whole picture. So learning how to get out of your head and into your heart is a is a good tool in lots of different areas of life.
Joe Dermody:So I experienced this a lot, especially over the last four years. A lot of my friends, family are not to take this politically, but to take it politically a little bit, are Republicans and also engineers. And the Republicans get a bad rap a lot of times because of their rule following. K? I see I see a lot of times they they follow rules, and they also get the rap of not seeming to care about feelings and, seem to have a heart.
Joe Dermody:And I think a lot of times, they are seen to go with their mind and logical thinking a lot more. And because of that, they they get that reputation of having no heart. And I think that's what you see here a lot, because they're just following the rules. They have that logical side only that that kinda lean more towards that side. Now I I understand that side of thinking and how that appears because I I used to be a lot like that as well.
Joe Dermody:Right? The engineering side of me says that, you know, especially when it comes to immigration, and this is a touchy subject for me. And just let me explain for a second because I I wanna I wanna get this one kind of I wanna explain why I'm thinking the way I am with this one. I had a friend that that wrote a very long post, and reading through it, I'm a very empathetic person, and I I feel strongly for people and the plight that they have. Okay, when when things are not fair and they go through stuff that is that is bad.
Joe Dermody:And there was an instance in this post where somebody was coming across, and they did something that was not following the rules specifically, but it was a very minor thing. Right? And because of this, they were sent back and put in a very bad situation. And, yeah, I feel for that person. But on the other side of it, they did not follow the rules, right, which allowed that instance to happen.
Joe Dermody:So the the one side of it is that if they would have followed the rules, would have been just fine, and nothing bad could have happened in that instance. But because they didn't, they left the door open. Now is it fair that this happened? Absolutely not. Should it have been overlooked and, you know, let go?
Joe Dermody:In my heart opinion, absolutely. Right? And I think this is just one of those instances that, you know, come up here, but it's one of those situations where it can be seen on either side. So I don't know if this answers your question or not, but this is one of those things that really hits me hard because I see it all the time, where people do it can be seen from both sides logically and on the heart side. And this is what's causing so much distance and issues with the world right now.
Joe Dermody:People taking one side so strongly and the other side the other way. And if we could just learn to The polarity is Yeah. It's very strong. Right. So, again, I didn't mean to really drive off the the whole road here, but this this is one that really hits me hard, because it seems like there are two, polls here where people do only think logically and the other side that is thinking solely with their heart.
Joe Dermody:And I really wish that we could find that happy medium and have translators. You know?
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, that is the concept of of polarity within the hermetic principles. It's it it doesn't deny the fact that the two extremes exist. You acknowledge that both exist. In fact, they're the same thing at two different ends of a same spectrum of a spectrum. So but what what hermeticism really teaches is moderation.
Jeffrey Aylor:Everything in moderation. Right? It's finding that middle point which is so incredibly difficult for most people because everything on the extremes tends to be a lot more interesting and exciting, and there's a lot more motion wrapped in it, and there's or logic either way. You can go to an extreme this way. You can go to an extreme that way, and I know that's one thing I work really hard to try to protect against is being extreme in anything.
Jeffrey Aylor:And that wasn't who I was as a young person. I was raised to be extreme in some cases. Right? And had to learn my way out of that. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I'm and I'm happy that I have, I think, at this point and in my experience. So
Joel Aylor:I think your point is is valid, Joe. You got basically people who think that, you know, logically, they're what they think and what they what they say makes logical sense, but the problem is they're not paying attention to how it affects other people. They're taking that that part out where they're like, this is the way it should be. There's no there's no right, wrong, or indifferent. This is the way it should be.
Joel Aylor:They're not understanding how that affects others, so they're taking that heart. They're not they're not listening to the heart part. So Yep. I got what you're saying.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. If this was easy, we wouldn't be here talking about it.
Joe Dermody:That's true.
Jeffrey Aylor:That is true. So, Sherry, you you fix us here, will you?
Sherri Keys:Yeah. Let me me balance you guys back. I'm just gonna speak to an experience. So years ago, mom was living. She a really bad situation where no one knew what was wrong and she basically everything was shutting down.
Sherri Keys:So she ended up being in the hospital, in the ER, ICU area in an induced coma. And everyone that has spent any time in the medical in ICU or in the hospital and in the medical arena know that the ICU, rightfully so, is kind of where it's the learning ground. I mean, you learn it, you're coming out of med school, you are there as a resident getting trained because you get an opportunity to see everything. So I remember, I'll never forget being there with her through the whole process because obviously she could not speak. She was in anything for herself.
Sherri Keys:And it would at least be five, six, seven residents all coming in in their white coats and they're coming fresh out of college or med school and very knowledgeable from the book perspective. And every day I'm sitting there having this conversation with them and speaking on behalf of my mother and them really speaking on behalf of what they see in their books. And I remember a conversation with one of the head presidents and I'll never forget. I mean, every day he would look at numbers the night before to see if they were inducing medicines and that would be their trigger to say, hey, we need to pull the plug. And I remember just looking at him and saying that, I understand and respect what you see and what your knowledge from medical school, 100%.
Sherri Keys:But I need for you to also give me grace and understand what I feel in that fight and that faith that my mother is showing here. And also applying a little logic and knowledge from my training, understanding and trending her as we go along the way, understanding that during the day her trend and her numbers would go down and at night her numbers would go up just like any like a child or anyone sick, you get a little sicker or your fever or or in this case, the level of experience was different at night versus the experience of the the the nurse practitioners and the nurses during the day. So everybody's trying to save lives, but everybody is trying to do it at the level of experience and knowledge that they had. And I just remember, you know, thinking to myself, you know, I'm trying to balance that, the that logic that they come to the equation with with that gut, that feeling, that faith that I know existed. So that to me, when we talk about that, that brings that back to me and my experience.
Sherri Keys:It's that at end of the day, you know, a few trials of having that conversation, my mom actually was won golf the machines, went to a step down ICU, and eventually got out of the hospital. So and and, you know, it it would be interesting that she actually woke up out of her induced coma on Easter Sunday. So there's that as well. But it's to me, it's just a good way to think about the fact that sometimes you can't just always have a logic. Sometimes you've got to have that gut in that conversation.
Sherri Keys:And I was just so very blessed that at the time I knew how to figure out how to balance both. Because if I went too far wrong, then they could have easily kicked me out the ICU. But I figured out how to balance that and get them to understand that there's another element in this beyond just what you see in black and white.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, knowing you and knowing that you have a very logical mind that you're you're very data driven, you're very process focused, you've got a natural inclination towards that, but you're also a woman. And naturally, women tend to be more intuitive. They tend to they tend to make decisions based on their heart and based on intuition and feeling more. It's the one portion of the personality type under Jungian psychology that is gender biased. Thinking and feeling.
Jeffrey Aylor:So mind, thinking, heart, feeling. And it what what I love in your story there is that you you had the ability to balance them, which is exactly what we've talked about under the hermetic principle of polarity, all of us have within us both the masculine and the feminine gender. Men that are physically male have a tendency to be trained, to be very honest, we're trained to think logically. We tend to think with our mind and not as much with our heart. Where women are trained, and they tend to think with their heart more with feeling.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's where the gender bias comes in. Yet it's in all of us. We both we have both of those elements within each one of us, and it's it's that figuring out that balance of gender within each of us that helps, I think, drive our decision making in a balanced way so that we don't go too far with the logic, too far with the feeling, At the expense of one at the expense of the other. And that takes a lot of time and energy to learn. Oh, yes.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Because you you I think let me tell my story here, and it it is it's it's very much has to do with this decision of retiring and and leaving corporate life and corporate world and comfort. Logically, everybody would look at me and probably say, what are you doing?
Jeffrey Aylor:Why would you do that? Well, because I feel something in me pulling me in a different direction. This is what I touched on in the last episode. Becoming more aligned with the sacred self, finding my sacred self. This work is what feels right.
Jeffrey Aylor:I can honestly tell you that going into the office right now, as I get closer to retirement is more and more and more and more difficult. It's more and more difficult every time, because I feel that dissonance between the two elements. So this is a sense where, you know, logically, I probably should stay, but my heart's saying no. It's time to go. It's time to go and do go this direction.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I think it's been a good decision. Not an easy decision, but it's a good decision, and I think it's one that don't think I could have made this decision five-ten years ago in any fashion or form. Couldn't have made this decision at that point. I wasn't experienced enough to make it. So you know, it's interesting how each one of us has a story, but it's from a different perspective.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yet it comes to the same conclusion. So which one of us is right? Ah, so we're we're all right. We're all right. We're on different paths.
Sherri Keys:We're all right.
Jeffrey Aylor:We're on different paths, but we have the same we get to the same conclusions. I love it. So when you feel alignment, can you feel it? Can you what does alignment feel like in your body when you experience it?
Joel Aylor:When you say feel alignment, are you talking about the alignment between the mind and the body, or are you just talking about the this overall general alignment of of of being?
Jeffrey Aylor:That's a good question. As I think about this, I'm thinking I feel that life has a flow to it. Sure. Right? When and and a lot of people will call this aligning with your purpose.
Jeffrey Aylor:They'll talk about, you know, what is your life's purpose, or they'll talk about, you know, what is it that we feel that we've been we came here to do. Right?
Joel Aylor:I I ask that because I have different answers based off what you're what you're looking for. So
Jeffrey Aylor:Or, okay, I would give us both.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. So the first the first thing I think of I mean, it's just a physical example. So when I made a switch from one company to another with in pharmacy, the the place that I went to changed we we I didn't have the same workstation setups. So when I was at a bigger box store, they had the the they had the money. They had the the investment in the infrastructure and all that kind of stuff to ergonomically set up a workstation so that my but my physical body was upright much more than I was where I was at when I switched jobs.
Joel Aylor:I went kinda back in time technology wise and and and and things like that. Was it was the best move I made in my life. No regrets there. It's just physically, had to I positioned my body differently. So I went from being straight up, head up, and and and where it's supposed to be looking at a computer screen to looking down at at a piece of paper and and signing off on some things all day.
Joel Aylor:So all of a sudden, my spine went completely out of alignment, and I physically felt it. My my neck was yelling at me. My lower back was yelling at me. I for the first time, had to go to a chiropractor, and they looked at me like, you're yeah. Basically, what I'm saying, yelling.
Joel Aylor:That's exactly the word to use. He said, we they basically did a nerve test on my spine. He said, your neck is yelling at you right now because you're out of alignment. And it took time to to get my my actual spine back in alignment so that I would would not be in so much pain. So, physically, that's an example of an of alignment, and that works
Joe Dermody:I mean,
Joel Aylor:any anything. You can think of, like you said, flow. I mean, you think of, like, a, you know, garden hose and you kink it. You you know, you stop that flow. It takes away the alignment.
Joel Aylor:Same thing with the river. Throw a bunch of rocks in there. You you you mess up the alignment of the flow of the river. Same thing with your spinal column. It's just nerve.
Joel Aylor:It's just electricity. It's it's electric cords going through your body communicating everywhere, and it was completely out of alignment. But kinda tying to that as far as alignment with what I'm here to do or what I'm here to work on if tying into to my job. I I've always enjoyed I mean, I'm very logically minded, pharmacist, attention to detail, attention to various a lot of information quickly. Where I struggled, not that I didn't enjoy and love my patients.
Joel Aylor:I had a lot of people that I've touched over my my career that I that I missed when I when I left my job. Made a lot of, you know, good connections. Loved taking care of them. Loved learning about them. Loved learning about their families, things like that.
Joel Aylor:I did enjoy that. That was a a big part where I could take my my head knowledge and and apply it through the heart and still do. Still have many people that I take care of or or reach out and ask questions. But I knew that I felt like I actually would be better served to be kinda behind the scenes as opposed to being frontline all the time in a pharmacy taking care of those patients. I felt more more useful helping my entire team, my entire network of pharmacies, and helping them succeed and and and showcase their talents as well.
Joel Aylor:So that's what I've kinda done in this new role with this new position is be more behind the scenes, help help people, you know, do their jobs day in and day out better, quicker, and and be there for that. And that's really helped me. I've enjoyed it so much more. I've always enjoyed my pharmacy career, but I've now in a position that I absolutely truly love, and I feel like I'm in the right place. It just it feels right.
Joel Aylor:It feels like what I'm meant to be doing.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. I agree. So when when I am in alignment, I feel a lot less anxious. I feel I have a lot less acid in my stomach, so a lot less indigestion. So again, it's the when the spiritual and mental anguish goes out, the physical angst goes away.
Joe Dermody:So and vice versa. You know, so my physical alignment was out for so long being overweight and out of shape. Now that that is coming back into alignment too, I think that's also affecting my my spiritual and mental alignment. So they work, you know, hand in hand. So both, Joel, just like you were saying, you know, I think it's it's alignment both physically and mentally, and they affect each other.
Sherri Keys:Wow. Well, I don't know if I can add any more to that. So I did both Joel and Joe. You know, for me, again, you just feel at peace, you feel really good about what it is that where you're at and what you've done and your, you know, your anxiety is managed, your, you know, your, your level of, you know, frustration is, is gone. You just really feel good inside.
Sherri Keys:And that's when I know everything is where it needs to be.
Joe Dermody:And balanced, right? You just feel balanced and
Sherri Keys:You're grounded.
Joe Dermody:You're grounded, balanced, gracious. I just feel so much gratitude. Just generally happy.
Jeffrey Aylor:For me, it's all about flow. And it's so interesting that I've spent such a significant amount of my career trying to help improve flow, whether it's money flowing or whether it's products flowing or whether it's you have a people and a process flowing, you can tell when you're moving against the natural flow of things. That resistance is easy to feel. I like to use the example. I love cycling, but I absolutely hate cycling if it's windy and I'm having to ride into the wind because of the resistance, I'm going against the flow.
Jeffrey Aylor:If I'm riding with the wind, it is so effortless. It's so easy. I can I can be going 25 miles an hour and not even be struggling to be at that speed? Turn around and start riding the other direction, and to struggle to get to five ten miles an hour. And it's the same bike, it's the same.
Jeffrey Aylor:And it's the same path. And it's like, why? Why is this so much harder? Because I'm going against the flood, I can feel it, physically feel it. I feel it in my body, I feel it in my mind and my heart.
Jeffrey Aylor:And the amount of energy that it takes, the energy is not flowing, the energy is impeded. All of those elements are impacted. And I know I'm doing the right thing when time evaporates. Yep. When when when I'm because when you're in that state of resistance, time slows down and becomes significantly more aware of time where when things are flowing, time, it just it just evaporates.
Jeffrey Aylor:And and a lot of people, that bothers them because time is they they they see time as a scarce commodity. We only have so much time. Well, no. Reality is is we're eternal. Time really doesn't matter much, and I would much rather be in that state of flow, that state of no resistance, that state.
Jeffrey Aylor:Sherry used the term peace. That's there there's a there's a part in one of my daily meditations that talks about peace is the confidence in knowing that you're one with God, one with the universe, that you're in alignment with what the universe has for you to do. And I know with this work that I've been doing these last eighteen months with awakening heaven on earth, it's not work. It it just flows. It's it and it's become It's it's I can feel it.
Jeffrey Aylor:I feel this is this is why I make the decision. This is where I need to be. I can tell. I can feel it. This is where I'm supposed to be because I don't feel the resistance.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're following your passion. You're yeah. The passion, the purpose
Joel Aylor:Right. So
Jeffrey Aylor:that's exactly gifts that you're given to to execute and do this work. I think the universe picks you at a at the correct time to do certain things, and that's where that's just exactly where we are.
Joel Aylor:I think your passion can change over time too.
Jeffrey Aylor:Oh, totally.
Joel Aylor:So it's not just one thing you're supposed to be following. It's just follow whatever is feeling right at that time, and that's the gist of it. That's essentially what the the conversation of the god books talked about. Like, you have to follow your passion. That's what you're meant that's what you're here to do.
Joel Aylor:If you if you fight against that, you're just going to basically create suffering. So find what you're passionate about and follow that. Trust it will it will work out, and it always usually does. And it won't feel like I said, it won't feel like work. When you can go to work and it doesn't feel like work, that's that's passion.
Joel Aylor:It's not a job. Right. And that's exactly how I feel now in in in my role. Working on the projects that I'm working on or the day in, in and out stuff, behind the scenes stuff. My days absolutely fly by.
Joel Aylor:And then I go and I help out in the pharmacy. Love doing that. Love being back in there and being with people, helping out my the the people that work for me. I'm busy. I'm constantly checking scripts and and doing this, that,
Jeffrey Aylor:and the other, but the day goes so slow.
Joel Aylor:It's it's the weirdest thing. I can be busy as all heck, and I'm it it just it drags. But as soon as I'm in my office doing projects and working on things behind the scenes, I I blink, and it's lunchtime.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? So think think about that. Think about when you experience that because that usually is the indication this that is probably what you should be focused on. Right? So let's talk about learning to trust that feeling.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? And and go with it. Again, a lot of times logic says, oh, nope. That probably isn't the best path to me to take. But in reality, the universe says it is.
Jeffrey Aylor:So how is your relationship with trusting your intuition, that feeling internally changed over time?
Joel Aylor:I'll just keep using the same example with with my pharmacy career in the last couple of years. So I as managing the pharmacy that I was at, I was still working on kind of side jobs and side projects for my for administration and seeing that this is something I wanted to do, and it eventually turned into the job that I have. But that took some realizing that this was the right thing to do because I had a lot of resistance from my staff and from people that I worked with because they they didn't wanna see me go. They wanted me to stay here and do keep doing what I was doing and managing the pharmacy. And I didn't always trust my my my inner voice telling me that this isn't where you're supposed to be.
Joel Aylor:You need to be doing this other work, that this other work is just as important, just in different ways. So when I didn't trust that and I was looking for external validation, it caused a lot of dissonance in me because I was constantly in my mind thinking, well, what if this person thinks? Or what am I am I meant to do this? Or are they what are they gonna think of me if I go into this new role? You know, all kinds of inner chatter.
Joel Aylor:But when I learned to quiet that and realize that I'm where I'm supposed to be and I'm doing what I'm doing because this is what feels right, and it's actually helping them whether they see it or not, It's it's helping them in their in their day and day day to day inner work. That's when when things started to actually feel feel okay. And it's taken me quite a it's taken me a good year or more to to be fully comfortable in a in almost an administration role where I have this, you know, this job to do and get people to accept me for being in this position. I had to learn to trust myself that I was doing the right thing by being in this position and doing this work. And and and so far, it's been or in the last year or so now, it's been a lot more it's been flowing a lot better.
Joel Aylor:It's not been there's not been nearly as much resistance to to the work that I'm doing or even within myself. I
Joe Dermody:think for me that it's there's been so many changes over the last two years with me that I'm still in the process of trying to decide what all is changing and how to figure out what all is going on still. I didn't have a relationship with myself, honestly, the same way before, you know, two years ago, honestly. I didn't take time to stop to listen to myself consciously before then. So I would say that it's changed tremendously because now I stop and I try to I consciously try to listen. So I have that relationship now, whereas I didn't really have a relationship where I tried to listen in the past.
Joe Dermody:So I'm sure that my I was trying to communicate with with me for forever, but now I'm consciously trying to listen, if that makes sense. So yeah, I would say it's changed a lot. But I don't don't know how else to answer that question.
Jeffrey Aylor:I think you just did, quite honestly. It's You know, you I think most of us, for the most part, are taught to seek validation for what we're supposed to be doing from outside. Yeah. Outside of ourselves. Guilty.
Jeffrey Aylor:Trying to, you know, what does so and so think about me? Mhmm. What does what does well, again, I go back to my my morning meditation. It says the inner the inner teacher knows the way. The inner wisdom knows the way.
Jeffrey Aylor:The divine within me knows the way. It knows what's best for me. My higher self knows what's best for me, and I need to be trusting in that Because other people are going to pull you the way they want you to go. Are you following your purpose and your guidance? Or are you following other people's guidance?
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? And sometimes I think we put ourselves in a position where we allow ourselves to be overly influenced. Now I believe you need to be cognizant because they also are spiritual beings, and in some cases, spirit moves through them. They become the voice that we need. Sometimes the very message we need comes from other people because it's coming through them because we can't get it through ourselves.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? Right. And that's also why we have to stop and reason about what we're experiencing and not just react. It's that space between, right? Which is what I love about this podcast.
Jeffrey Aylor:I absolutely love this ability to just okay. Why am I experiencing this? And and what am I supposed to learn from this and from this this interaction or from this experience? So no. I think you answered the question.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's beautiful.
Sherri Keys:So my perspective is, did everyone that everyone said? I know that's the word of the day. But I've I think I'm constantly growing in a space. And I think as you grow in your wisdom, you grow in your self awareness of who you are. You try to get out of your own way, because sometimes when we get in our own way, we pick up things that God never asked us to pick up.
Sherri Keys:And we wonder why we never get to that next step. Right? So I'm learning more about myself each and every day. And I've grown so much in my faith through my experiences that I've, I've run across, and through the people that I've met, and the messages that I never was aware that I was receiving until I became, you know, a lot stronger and aware of my walk. And so I'm still developing, I'm still growing.
Sherri Keys:I think that is going to be a forever thing. But the journey and where I'm at currently in that journey is so much better than where I began. So that's where I'm at.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, as I think about this, I go back to the communication model as simple as it is. You have a sender and a receiver and a means or method that that message is transmitted. If the the divine within me is communicating with me, what part of me is it communicating with? And what method is it using? And how susceptible is that message to being confused by noise?
Jeffrey Aylor:Because I you know, the the the Christian scriptures talk about God speaking to us in a still small voice, and it's the noise of the world. It's the noise of things around us that drowned out the ability to hear that voice, and I think that's a fairly good description That in so many cases, there's so much noise going on around us that keeps us from being able to slow down, quiet ourselves, And allow that still small voice to speak. And love the meditation that says it can come as a feeling. It can come as a peace. Sometimes that comes to me audibly.
Jeffrey Aylor:It does come to me in a clairaudient way. I get a lot of my guidance in sleep at night. I find that that period between 3AM and 5AM truly is a very sacred time because when I wake up at that time, I'm very receptive to the inner because because my my my body has quieted, And that's the majority of the work here that we're doing is built on downloads I received at that time of the night because I was receptive to it, and it was just it just came. It came in in massive amounts, and and there'll be times where it's like, Jeff, you I hear this little voice, Jeff. And you know the voice you know you know what the voice sounds like?
Jeffrey Aylor:It sounds like my voice.
Joel Aylor:I also went for Samuel L. Jackson or something fun.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. It's not. Yeah. It's not like it's not like that Star Wars.
Sherri Keys:Yeah. Me too, Joel.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. Right?
Joe Dermody:Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman. You think
Joel Aylor:There we go. Yeah. That one's good too.
Jeffrey Aylor:The the voices you think of God.
Joel Aylor:Morgan Freeman's a lot more that would that would make more sense. Samuel Jackson, he's a little bit more rough. The be but it was still be just as funny.
Jeffrey Aylor:And who was the guy that star
Joel Aylor:wars? Yeah. Who was
Jeffrey Aylor:the guy that did Darth Vader on Star Wars? Wars?
Joel Aylor:Jones. Earl Jones. James Earl Earl Jones. Sorry.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. You think of those voices that that's not how God speaks to us. He speaks to us with our own voice, and it's fun because there's a there's a really great guy. I read his three books. He's now got a great podcast out there, and he talks about how do I discern the voice of God.
Jeffrey Aylor:And his whole podcast is based on that, and it's through meditation. It's through quieting. It's through allowing yourself to be in communication with God. Two way communication, not one way. Prayer is one way.
Jeffrey Aylor:Med so that that's talking to God. Meditation is listening to God. In order to listen, you have to be quiet. And and I think we all know, in general, we struggle with listening. We have no problem with talking.
Jeffrey Aylor:We struggle with listening. And I think that's a lot of times where because we've got all this noise. We've got all these things that block that inner voice that and we don't slow down because we're being told we gotta keep moving. Right? We're human doings, not human being.
Jeffrey Aylor:And here and here we are. We're in this state where we can't slow down and listen, and and people don't want you to. They don't want you to know that your inner guidance is is available to you all the time, and that you don't need someone outside yourself, an intermediary, a pastor, someone that that that has some direct connection with God. You don't. Well, the fact is you do.
Jeffrey Aylor:And it's liberating if you can open yourself to it and listen. So let's touch on one more thing here. And can you share a time when you specifically remember following that inner knowing and what happened when you did?
Joe Dermody:You know, I think I think when I decided to take my Reiki training, this was something that I wanted to do, and it came to me it's something that I've kind of wanted to do for a while, but I wanted to do it as a group. And I was able to I I asked I asked my whole the whole team to do it as a group, and it worked out, and it worked out fantastically. So I think that it was something that brought us all together. It's something that we can still talk about.
Joel Aylor:And,
Joe Dermody:yeah, I think and it's still something that I can talk to. I feel each and every one of you is still now as I continue to grow on it, and it's just gonna help me and hopefully you guys as we continue to grow as a team and throughout our lives. So but, yeah, I I got that feeling as you know?
Jeffrey Aylor:And it's going to take on a life of its own.
Joe Dermody:It is. It it is. It's opened so many doors for me, not only with you guys, but, you know, internally with with our instructor. And I use it every single day of my life. And it's changed me in ways that.
Joe Dermody:It's hard to explain. So yeah. I
Sherri Keys:don't have one specific example. I feel like my whole life is at this point, just to be honest. Yeah, I mean, I think that just the life journey and the changes that I've endured along the way has just made me such a better person. Has made me realize more about who I am, you know, internally. It allowed me to feel okay with allowing other people in.
Sherri Keys:I don't know. I mean, I'm probably not answering the question directly, Jeff. I apologize.
Jeffrey Aylor:But No. But to me, it's it's designed to stir your thinking. If you don't have a direct answer, that's okay. But it's designed for you to to go inside and and and look. Wait a minute.
Jeffrey Aylor:Where have I where have I followed my gut against my head, and it's just, you know, what happened when you did?
Joel Aylor:I've got one now. So it's kind of going with my theme with with my pharmacy career. So I was my previous employer was working and just started managing a a new pharmacy location for for them. It was the fastest growing pharmacy in their history, in their long history of being an organization. A lot of accolades, lot of a lot of good numbers, a lot of people commending me, grooming me to be, you know, something else down the road, but I decided to leave it.
Joel Aylor:And it came at a time where I I I took a pay cut to do so, mainly because I I I needed a better work life balance. I needed basically, I had a child on the way. They didn't know that, but I had a child on the way. I just bought a home, so it was scary because it was certainty. There was a certainty in that job.
Joel Aylor:I wasn't gonna be, you know, leaving leaving losing that job. It was a steady paycheck, and I was going to a different location that I said was paying me less but had better hours to a completely different workflow, different technology. I had to learn a lot about a whole new organization even though I've been with the other one for so long. Knew a lot about it. I had to relearn people.
Joel Aylor:I had to relearn the history of there. Had to learn a lot of different things. It was scary. But I made that jump, and it was the best decision I've ever made. Everything on paper told me no, and everything inside said, yes.
Joel Aylor:Do it now. And like I said, I I have no regrets. I'm in a a much better place and have have grown into a completely new position doing everything that I love to do. And I just remember for years after you know, that pharmacy is a is a small world. We we we talk to each other a lot.
Joel Aylor:We know each other whether we went to school together or we talk on the phone to transfer prescriptions back and forth, whatever. Every time I talk to my old colleagues at my previous employer, they said, you made the right decision getting out when you did. So I just reaffirmed that I made that right decision when I did. But even though it was hard to to make that leap of faith, it was it was the right decision.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right. So your story you just told is my story right now, and it's been my story throughout my whole life. I look back and I recognize that every experience that I've had has been preparing me for what I'm doing right now. And I have followed I went in the military. Certainly not my first choice, but it worked out to be one of the best decisions ever.
Jeffrey Aylor:I didn't go in with the intent of staying. I ended up retiring, ended up being one of the best things I ever did. I went to follow training in organizational development and quality. I knew nothing about it. It was just like, okay, great.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's totally changed my life. I look at the every every single thing, even the most difficult things in my life, the death of our daughter, the, you know, the all of the things associated with that, we've been able, I feel, to alchemize in a way and and and it's and it's prepared me. And and and it I don't have the fear because of a lot of that. You haven't gone through those things. I don't have the fear that a lot of people might in making certain decisions because of where I am at this point.
Jeffrey Aylor:All of it is guided by intuition. I'm an intuitive anyway. If you understand Jungian psychology, you know, you're either an intuitive or you're a sensor. This is how people take in information. I prefer I can take in information through my senses, but I prefer to do it through intuition.
Jeffrey Aylor:That sixth sense, that gut feel. I see I see beyond what's obvious, and I see possibilities. And I and I trust in those possibilities, and I and because I see them in my mind, I'm not afraid to to make a decision and go in a totally different path. And I know that freaks people out, but that's, you know, unfortunately, being an INTJ personality type, I'm one of the four rarest personalities in the world. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:Go figure. That's why we're here talking today. So, you know, all of that has worked out and and and I'm excited. I'm actually super excited as I go through this current transition to see where this is gonna go and what it's gonna do. I I have no clue.
Jeffrey Aylor:But I trust that it's it I feel it. We're doing the right thing. This is all for the right purpose. So based on that, we've got to bring our conversation to a close. You know, it's really worth remembering that the voice of the heart is rarely forceful.
Jeffrey Aylor:It doesn't demand attention. It invites. Right? It invites. And the more we slow down, the more we begin to recognize that, the more we will be able to follow that intuitive, that inner voice, that inner guidance.
Jeffrey Aylor:So Joel, Joe, Sherry, thank you for your continued openness and presence as we have these conversations. And for anybody listening, if this episode invites you to pause even briefly and listen a little more closely inside yourself within that voice within, let that be enough. And based on that, the space between continues. As we come to a close, remember that this journey continues in many expressions. This podcast is part of a family of partner podcasts.
Jeffrey Aylor:Awakening Heaven on Earth. The space between heaven and earth and Living Heaven on Earth are three companion podcasts exploring spiritual awakening from complementary perspectives. Awakening heaven on earth offers the core teachings and mystical reflections on unity, love, and conscious living. The space between creates room for dialogue, reflection, and lived conversation around those teachings. Living Heaven on Earth focuses on basic spiritual practices that help embody these insights in daily life.
Jeffrey Aylor:Together, they form a unified journey of understanding, experience, and integration. Inviting listeners to remember their connection with the divine, with one another, and with the living world. You can find all of them available on the same podcast streaming platforms wherever you listen. And if music helps carry these teachings deeper into the heart, The Unity. Awakening Heaven on Earth album is available on all major music streaming services as a musical companion to this journey.
Jeffrey Aylor:Wherever you engage through listening, reflection, conversation, or music. May it gently remind you, you are not separate. You belong to the one life and heaven is already unfolding within you. Until next time. Walk gently, love deeply, and embody heaven on earth.