5 Mindsets That Are Killing Your Wealth and How to Fix Them

🎙️ Episode 18 – 5 Mindsets That Are Killing Your Wealth (and How to Fix Them)

Are your money habits sabotaging your future? This episode is for high-performing men who are crushing it at work and at home—but quietly struggling with finances behind the scenes.

In this practical and honest conversation, Mark and Zack explore five toxic thought patterns that hold men back from building wealth—and what you can do to break free.

👉 Ready for the next step?
SCHEDULE A FREE, 30-MINUTE CONSULT with Mark or Zack at: https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

🔍 In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why “it’s the economy’s fault” is a mindset trap—and what to do instead
• The hidden cost of saying “I’m just not good with money”
• How all-or-nothing thinking paralyzes your financial progress
• Why waiting to “make more money” before saving is a losing game
• How budgeting doesn’t have to kill your joy—and might even increase it
• The psychology behind self-sabotage, procrastination, and financial guilt
• How to take your first small, realistic step toward financial peace today

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

💡 Your Challenge This Week:
Identify the negative money belief holding you back—and write out the advice you’d give a close friend if he believed the same thing.

About the Show:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland, Certified EMDR Therapist, and Zack Carter, Counselor & Coach, we tackle real issues—masculinity, trauma, addiction, finances, marriage, purpose, and faith—with honesty, clarity, and courage.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland: 00:00

And I know that there are guys who are rocking it in life, who are just such such good family men and and such good employees or or leaders, business owners. And they they're carrying kind of this silent shame because they don't feel like they're saving enough or doing enough in their finances. And this is, like, this one area of their life that just a little not so sure about. This is a starting place, you know, taking this podcast seriously, this conversation seriously, and just just going from there, you know, one small step at a time. Welcome everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast.

Mark Odland: 00:34

I'm Mark Odland, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist.

Zack Carter: 00:39

And I'm Zach Carter, counselor and coach.

Mark Odland: 00:42

And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and to become the lions they were created to be. And today, we're talking about the five mindsets that prevent you from building wealth and how to fix them. And make sure to hang on till the end because, we have a practical idea for you to put some of these ideas into action. And since you're already here, if if you could hit that subscribe button down below, we'd really appreciate it. It helps us to keep the channel growing and to help more men.

Mark Odland: 01:10

Alright. Let's jump in. Zach, I know as men, a lot of our listeners are entrepreneurs and and leaders and and just everyday guys who are grinding it out, trying to be a a good provider for their family, trying to meet their goals, trying to plan for the future, trying to work hard. And yet, it can be daunting to think about managing our money, saving for the future, investing. All these things can feel a little overwhelming.

Mark Odland: 02:02

And, so in your mind, what are the things that keep men from taking the steps they need to to move forward with their finances? What what is what's getting in the way?

Zack Carter: 02:13

Yeah. For sure. That's that's a great great question. Before I get into that, you know, I'm like, I think you and I are probably very passionate about finances as many other guys are. My my passion around this topic kinda started when I was in banking.

Zack Carter: 02:28

So I was a banker for about five years and studied this topic a lot. And so I was really thinking about, you know, how I help clients if they have problems in their finances and how we could help listeners in their finances. And I I think the the biggest thing to get to your question that can hold us back is our thinking, our automatic negative thoughts. And so what are automatic negative thoughts? They're they're rapid and voluntary and usually pessimistic thoughts that spring up in your mind.

Zack Carter: 02:59

Right? And so, like you said, we're gonna discuss five common ones that we see. So I'll we'll we'll get to them and I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on these, Mark. Sure. First one, near and dear to my heart, because this was the one that was, like, really stuck in my head for a while was it's the economy's fault.

Zack Carter: 03:16

Right? It's it's other people's fault. Other if they if the politicians just did this and that, if, you know, if our society just did this or that. And so just completely removing responsibility for myself. Right?

Zack Carter: 03:32

And I know I'm not the only one that had that thought. And what I found a couple years ago was my wife had to like my my wife and I had to sit down and budget, you know, the b word. And we sat down and like laid out our finances. What do you know? We like to spend way too much money on food and going out.

Zack Carter: 03:49

And so it turns out, like, I have some responsibilities. Not that the economy isn't to blame at all. Yeah. Inflation has gone up and and things are more expensive. And at the same time, we've also we were making some choices that were preventing us from getting ahead.

Zack Carter: 04:06

So the first place to start, if this is a thought that comes to your mind, if you find that you're blaming other people, I would ask the question, what part of this is under my control? Control? So very much like I was just saying, we were saying like, okay. We eat out too much. Here's a few places.

Zack Carter: 04:26

You know, if you if you say like we did, like, where's all our money going? That's not that's not a good sign. Right? So we had to, like, actually figure out where the money was going. I like, oh, because we eat out a lot.

Zack Carter: 04:34

Right? So that's that's kind of part one. And so but what I also kind of wanted to introduce is sometimes we blame ourselves too much. Right? So, well, this is all my fault.

Zack Carter: 04:47

And sometimes we can hold a big percentage of that, but in cognitive behavioral therapy, we really like to think more nuanced. And so for some people they blame themselves too much, right? And so at that point, you could ask yourself, are there outside factors that are contributing to the struggle for me, for people who blame themselves too much? Right? We wanna get the right percentage of blame.

Zack Carter: 05:05

Yeah. Whatever that is. Mark, did you have any thoughts on this?

Mark Odland: 05:09

Yeah. I mean, it it reminds me of early in in kind of the journey for my wife and I. We discovered a small group at our church that was Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, and it was kind of our introduction into a lot of this stuff. And I remember that homework exercise. We're sitting at a coffee shop, having to do the budget exercise, and it was kinda brutal.

Mark Odland: 05:33

I mean, to like you said, to sit down and do that. But then on the other side of it, it felt so good to be like, oh my gosh. Like, we know where like, we have a lay of the land. We understand how much money is coming in, how much money is going out. It was kinda hard to face it.

Mark Odland: 05:49

But now, like you said, now we do have some control. Now we do have some mastery. And so so, yeah, I think one of the reasons why we like Dave early on was just he recognized, you know, financial guys will love him or hate him for different reasons, but he understood that money is emotional. Finances are emotional. And and what a blessing that we're we're talking right now about the psychology of all this because the numbers on on the piece of paper or on the spreadsheet are only as good as our self control, our goals, our delayed gratification, our values.

Mark Odland: 06:24

Right? They are and and money intersects with our education. It intersects with our priorities. It it's it's it's part of every almost everything we do. So I I love that you started there.

Mark Odland: 06:35

And I guess the last thing I'd share is I remember Dave Rebs got his video. He'd be like, alright. When you schedule the budget meeting, he's like, yeah. If you're the guy with the spreadsheet, keep it to ten minutes. Keep it to ten, fifteen minutes.

Mark Odland: 06:50

And if you're the free spirit in the relationship, you gotta freaking show up. So he's like Yeah.

Zack Carter: 06:55

That's big.

Mark Odland: 06:57

Yeah.

Zack Carter: 06:58

Yeah. And I That's that's

Mark Odland: 06:59

all I got, Zach.

Zack Carter: 07:00

I'm ready for number two when when you are. But Yeah. I love it.

Mark Odland: 07:03

Sparks your imagination there.

Zack Carter: 07:04

Yeah, for sure. Well, so number two, kind of leading into what you were saying, like sometimes we need to learn, sometimes we need to show up, sometimes we need to engage, right? So second thought that often comes up for people is I'm just not good with money. It's just not my thing. Right?

Zack Carter: 07:20

Mhmm. And so in cognitive behavioral therapy, we would we would call this labeling. Right? We like label ourselves as a thing. So some people label themselves as stupid or an addict or unlovable.

Zack Carter: 07:35

So there's all these different ways we can label ourself. And so I'm just not good with money is one of one of the ways that we can do that. Right? It's like in our very DNA, we can't change this. We can't change, right?

Zack Carter: 07:45

And so if someone's in a session with me, a question that I would often ask is something like, Well, is this 100% true? Like how true is this? Maybe you're 80% bad with money, but maybe there's some debts you've paid off. Or maybe you have some savings. Or maybe unintentionally, you're contributing to your four zero one k.

Zack Carter: 08:06

You didn't even know it. Right? So there there might be some things that are going on where you're starting and well, how do we get better with money? How can we go from I'm not good to I'm I'm okay to I'm pretty good to I'm great. Right?

Zack Carter: 08:22

And so can we we build that over time? So if this is a thought that you have about yourself, that's a place to start. Is is this a 100% true? Any thoughts around this, Mark?

Mark Odland: 08:33

Well, what I love about this is is I can I can hear as you're speaking, some of our audiences saying, oh, are you saying we should just, like, stick our head in the sand and convince ourself everything's fine when it's not? And that's not what you're saying at all because you're saying what is the truth? Mhmm. What is the accurate description of where I'm at with money? And recognizing that most we have a tendency to either, judge ourselves either inaccurately too badly or inflate ourselves artificially.

Mark Odland: 09:03

And and either way, it can get us in trouble. So to kind of dial in, what is the actual truth here? Let's put it on a scale from zero to a 100. Like, that that's so helpful because it kinda keeps us in check and keeps us accountable for what is true. And then we can deal with it.

Zack Carter: 09:17

Yeah. I I I that's so good. I was just meeting with a client recently that was pretty down on themself. Like, they they struggle with depression, and they're like, there's no reason I should feel this way. I was like, actually, you got, like, a lot of good reasons to feel this way.

Zack Carter: 09:35

Right? And if he was like if he if he had said the opposite where he's like, there's no reason I shouldn't feel this way, I would have like taken the opposite approach as well. Because like oftentimes when I'm meeting with people, I'm like trying to think in nuance. Right? So I love what you're saying.

Zack Carter: 09:53

It's not about lying to yourself. It's about like actually thinking accurately. And oftentimes we do that all or nothing thinking, which is I'm either all one thing or all another thing. Right? Which technically, this thought could maybe fit into that box as well of the all or nothing thinking, like, I'm 0% good with money.

Zack Carter: 10:09

Right? Which is like Yep. Probably not true. Right? There's probably some true.

Mark Odland: 10:13

Mean Yeah. If it is true that you're 0%, I mean, that's a unique case. Right? And Mhmm. You know, we we can work with that, but almost never.

Mark Odland: 10:20

Right? We're we're almost always somewhere in between. And Mhmm. My my own little, phrase that I use a lot, just exactly what you're saying, Zach, with with clients I work with is is is something like life, real life is stressful enough. You don't have the time or the energy to stress about stuff that's not real or, like, half true.

Mark Odland: 10:41

Right? It's like you got to trim the fat off the steak and be like, this is what I have to deal with. Mhmm. Because I mean, a what a what a waste of of, you know, waste of life to spend like half our lives stressing about things that are just based on distorted thoughts. Just tragic.

Mark Odland: 10:57

Oh, a 100%.

Zack Carter: 10:58

A 100%. Well, to our third point. So the third thought that often comes up with people is I'm too far behind. It's too late to start. Right?

Zack Carter: 11:10

I'm too far behind. It's too late to start. And so this would fall under that all or nothing thinking. Right? That there's no way for me to move forward.

Zack Carter: 11:22

There's no way for me to get better. And so there are definitely times where things are more difficult than others. Like if you haven't been saving or you haven't been putting money into retirement and you're 50, like, okay. Yeah. I mean, you're you're behind, but is it is it never a good time to start?

Zack Carter: 11:45

Would you rather in five years have $40,000 in your retirement account or zero? Right? So it's like, can we get better? Like, even if it's not great, can we get better? Even if you're 70 or 80 and you have all these debts, okay, is there a way to to make your family's life less miserable after you pass so that they don't have to deal with a huge mess.

Zack Carter: 12:12

Like, can you get more organized? Can you put things into will? Can can you put people on accounts? Can you do different things that can, like, at least make your family's life less miserable? So there's always something that you can do to to to help to further yourself to move forward.

Zack Carter: 12:32

What do you think, Mark?

Mark Odland: 12:33

That's that's beautiful. And that's another hard one to face emotionally. Right? For us for us as guys to face our own mortality, to think about our faith, to think about our legacy. You know, legacy is one of the five values at Lion Counseling and something very important for us to think about as men.

Mark Odland: 12:50

And, again, like so many things in life, the things that we're afraid of are are are often the things that we need to face, that we need to step forward into and to deal with, right, rather than running away from it. So I think that's I think that's such an act of love to plan to plan ahead for our families and not to live in fear, but to be responsible and to say, love. My love for my family can motivate me to get things in order, to put things in place. Or love for my family, love for myself, love for my neighbors, my church, the people I want to bless, the people I wanna give to, the people I wanna provide for. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 13:29

It feels like it's too late, but you know what? I can start I can start somewhere. And I guess the last thing I'd say, Zach, is, like, for a lot of the guys out there, who who do take their faith seriously, this is that biblical concept of stewardship. Right? This idea that, no, we're not sitting in the Garden of Eden, but we're still we're still tending the garden.

Mark Odland: 13:48

We're still trying to steward the resources that that we've been blessed with so that we can have a a positive impact on the world around us. And whether it's letting our house fall apart or letting our relationships fall apart or letting our money not do what it do all the things that it could do that we've worked so hard to earn, Those are all forms of mild neglect that aren't great that aren't great. And so again, accurate assessment of who we are and say where can I move forward even if it's a small step in the right direction?

Zack Carter: 14:21

Right. So then I would recommend that that's the question as if you're listening out there and maybe you're saying, I'm too far behind. Okay. What's one small step you can take today? Right?

Zack Carter: 14:32

And so when we in our past video, I think it was the one on motivation that we did, we talked about how there's a law in physics that an object at rest stays at rest, an object in motion stays in motion. So the hardest part is to go from at rest into motion. And so these small steps that we take can get us from at rest into motion. And so even if you're feeling overwhelmed, even if you're feeling despondent that you there's no point, yeah, there is a point. Like, there's ways that you can make your life, if not good, then less miserable.

Zack Carter: 15:04

Like, so start with less miserable and, like, what's the small step you can take there? Yeah. So number four that we have is I'll start saving when I make more money. I'll start saving when I make more money. So this is a this is a, you know, this is the the opening up of procrastination.

Zack Carter: 15:25

Right? Ultimately, never getting to the thing. Right? You're moving the goalpost on a regular basis. And so what does that even mean make more money?

Zack Carter: 15:34

Like, how much more money? Do you need to make $10,000 more a year? 50,000 more more dollars a year? A 100,000 more dollars a year? Right?

Zack Carter: 15:43

So, like, what do you what do you even what do you even say what are you even saying here? Right. One of the things that when I was a banker that I would do with with clients is I would actually get them to open a savings account, and I would have them go into their workplace and ask that they have a certain percentage deposited into a savings account. So even if it's 5%, 10%, go into the savings account, $25 each paycheck go into the savings account. And so you can begin to save and begin to build your wealth over time a little bit at a time.

Zack Carter: 16:23

And so kinda going back to the the point we're making on the last thought, we we wanna start small and if you can automate things, you you can suddenly become good at saving money. What do think, Mark?

Mark Odland: 16:36

I think that's that's amazing, Zach. I mean, that's another principle out of Dave Ramsey, right, is to eventually get to a place where, you know, you got your budget in order. And, again, you know, I'm not a I'm not a financial adviser, but just some practical wisdom I picked up along along the way is, you know, understanding where your money is, saving for that emergency fund so you don't freak out, right, when the car breaks down. It's like you actually oh my gosh. We actually have the money there.

Mark Odland: 16:59

That's amazing. And then and then once you get the basics locked down, then as you work hard for your money, you start to go down the rabbit holes of how do I grow and preserve my wealth. And so that same idea, right, of depositing a little bit every month into savings, people talk about dollar cost averaging into investments or assets that eventually can preserve and grow wealth over time. And for some guys listening, that might be not not where you're at, and that's okay. Maybe maybe you're not at that place.

Mark Odland: 17:27

But it's it's a journey, and it's something something that's good to face, something that's good to learn about. And and if anyone out there is feeling a little overwhelmed by it, again, just go back to the basics, back to, am I thinking some of those distorted thoughts that are shutting me down, and how can I get through that kind of once one small step at a time? So I just appreciate how practical all this is, Zach, for for our audience because we all need to hear it, and I know that there are guys who are rocking it in life, who are just such such good family men and and such good employees or or leaders, business owners. And they they're carrying kind of the silent shame because they don't feel like they're saving enough or doing enough in their finances. And this is like this one area of their life they're just a little not so sure about.

Mark Odland: 18:08

This is a starting place, you know, taking this podcast seriously, this conversation seriously, and just just going from there, you know, one small step at a time.

Zack Carter: 18:16

100%. Well, let's get to our last thought. Number five, budgeting means I can enjoy my life. So this is very common for people that I I don't I don't wanna do this because it means I gotta make sacrifices. It means my life is going to be over.

Zack Carter: 18:34

Right? Paying off debts, saving money, saving money for retirement. So this this is definitely what we would call emotional reasoning. Right? So, logically, if we really think about this for a moment, this doesn't have to be true.

Zack Carter: 18:54

Right? And so once again, when my wife and I started doing the budgeting, we started to cut down on how often we were eating out or eating out at restaurants that were less expensive. You know, the this kind of thought could have easily crept up. But we reframed it as having new opportunities to do new things. And so what so one of the things is I, you know, talk about labeling.

Zack Carter: 19:18

I was like, oh, I'm the guy that can't cook. I'm the guy that can't grill. That's not my kind of thing. And all of a sudden we're like, well, we're not gonna go to a steak restaurant because that's really expensive, but can we still have steaks? Well, I was like, alright.

Zack Carter: 19:30

Well, I'll start to learn how to grill, I guess. And so all of a sudden, I began to to develop this new skill that I started to take a lot of pride in and a lot enjoyment in of like learning how to grill, getting better and better and better over time. And so suddenly, Us budgeting, us saving money opened up this avenue for me to have a new hobby in addition to saving money. So the question I would I would have the audience ask themself about budgeting means you can't enjoy your life is, well, what's the worst case scenario if you budget? So play that out.

Zack Carter: 20:06

Then ask yourself, well, what's the best case scenario if you start to budget? Play that out. Yep. And then ask yourself, well, what's most likely to happen? Okay?

Zack Carter: 20:16

And it's probably gonna be somewhere in the middle. You'll be able to eat out sometimes, but at other times, you're you're going to have to, like, find new ways to, like, enjoy yourself to order to relax and have fun. Mark, any thoughts on your end?

Mark Odland: 20:32

I love it, Zach. I think it's an opportunity, And that, again, that's another value at at Lion is creativity. That's an underutilized aspect of being a man. Right? And I remember when my my wife and I were starting to go through, the Dave Ramsey stuff.

Mark Odland: 20:47

I remember it really, like, became real when we're going out to dinner with another couple. And we, like, just order the appetizer and don't get the full meal, and it feels weird. And they're like, oh, look at that weird couple who were, like, trying to save all this. You know? It feels awkward socially.

Zack Carter: 21:05

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:05

But we kind of found ways around it. We're like, hey. Let's just go out for go out for a drink. Go out for an appetizer. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:11

Let's take the whole family out, but we just get ice cream instead of, like, full meals. Right? And, oh, let's instead of paying for the tickets, let's go to the free concert in the park. And so one mindset could have been it's restrictive. It's not fun.

Mark Odland: 21:27

But the other mindset was like, you know what? We're creative people. Mhmm. We can do this. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:32

Mhmm. And then you start to see that, like, savings grow.

Zack Carter: 21:36

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:36

And you feel like you got a raise. Mhmm. And you didn't even change you didn't even actually get a range raise, but you felt like you got one. Mhmm. And that starts to get exciting.

Mark Odland: 21:43

Right? And, you know, back to Dave Ramsey's statement, if you can live like no one else now, then you can live and give like no one else later. Mhmm. And that's cool stuff because we wanna change the world. We wanna make the world a better place, and this is one vehicle that can help us get there.

Zack Carter: 22:01

Mhmm. Well, I I'm I'm loving the creativity on your end. It's giving me ideas. It's like, oh, that that is good. Like, do just doing appetizers or just doing dessert.

Zack Carter: 22:09

That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. As we're wrapping up, remember the five thoughts. It's the economy's fault.

Zack Carter: 22:14

I'm just not good with money. Too far behind. It's too late to start. I'll start saving when I make more money, and budgeting means I can't enjoy life. So if these are thoughts that you're struggling with or if you're finding that you have other thoughts that are holding you back when you're trying to improve your wealth, kind of the takeaway for the day where where you can start is take out a journal, take out a notebook, take out a piece of paper, write down what's the thought that's holding you back.

Zack Carter: 22:41

If it's one of these, cool. If it's a different one, okay. And one of my favorite questions that you can start with is what advice would you give to someone you love if they were having this thought? Right? So if they were having the thought, for instance, that budgeting means I can't enjoy my life, okay, what would you say to that person that you love?

Zack Carter: 23:02

Because oftentimes we give the advice to other people that we need to hear ourselves.

Mark Odland: 23:06

Yeah. Oh, that that's that's that's so good, Zach. You know? And and if there's a guy out there who's like, well, what if I don't love myself the way I love other people? Well, those other people might be counting on you to act like it anyway.

Mark Odland: 23:21

Mhmm. Mhmm. You know? So it's I I think that's just a powerful mindset shift to be able to do that. So thank you so much for that tip.

Mark Odland: 23:28

And I I challenge guys to to actually do that, to actually, do that exercise. And for all of you listening, out there, if if you've hung on till the end here, again, escapethecagenow.com. Zach and I are here to help if you're looking for extra support. And if this video helped you to rethink your mindset around money, please like, drop a comment below. Even let us know what's what's money thought that you're working on that you're trying to reframe in your mind.

Mark Odland: 23:57

And please don't forget to like and subscribe for more tips on psychology and personal growth. Thanks again, everybody. Thanks, Zach. Thanks, everybody.