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In this episode of Chicks in Construction, hosts Mikki Paradis and Jessica Abreu discuss an Arizona case in which senior citizens Elizabeth Matthews and her husband hired Settlers West Home Builder in May 2022 to build a $1M custom home in Tucson’s Catalina Foothills, then were persuaded to sign a separate $300,000 guest-house contract and pay large amounts in cash outside their construction loan. After paying $150,000 for the main project plus $150,000 and later $105,000 toward the guest house (and nearly $60,000 in upgrades), the couple saw major delays, received no refund when requested, and ultimately learned the builder filed for bankruptcy in December 2023, leaving two homes only framed. The builders had 18 license complaints before revocation in February 2024. The hosts stress red flags, not paying for uncompleted work, milestone-based draws, lien waivers, and retainage.
00:00 Renovation Limbo Warning
00:25 Podcast Intro and Horror Stories
02:47 Why Contractors Dodge Consequences
09:04 Time Optimist Tangent
13:45 Hoarding vs Throwing Away
19:01 Deep Dive Redemption Setup
20:34 Dream Home Disaster Begins
22:59 Meet the Matthews and the Contract
26:08 Guest House Upsell Red Flags
27:53 Discounts as Red Flags
28:42 Cash Pressure and Markups
31:02 Selling the House to Pay
32:54 Delays and Sunk Cost Trap
36:34 Overpaying for Bare Framing
38:38 Complaints and Bankruptcy Twist
48:13 Why Fixing Work Costs More
52:39 Pay Milestones and Lien Waivers
56:43 Retainage and Final Takeaways
Creators and Guests
Host
Jessica Abreu
As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.
Host
Mikki Paradis
President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.
What is Chicks in Construction?
You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.
From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.
The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.
After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.
Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/
53 - Chicks in Constrution
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Mikki : [00:00:00] You're washing your dishes in your sink, or you're showering at your parents', or you're showering at the gym or in one case it was in a basement. Like your life- ... is torn up, nothing is normal, and you just want this to end. Mm-hmm. And the idea of bringing somebody else in and kinda stopping and starting again, and the time delays, it just seems like, "Whatever, I'm gonna stick it out with this guy."
The problem is it never ends that way.
Jessica : It
Mikki : never ends well. You always have to hire somebody else anyway, and at that point it's gonna cost you five times the amount, and five times the amount of time, Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mikki Paris, and this is my illustrious co-host.
Jessica : Hi, I'm Jessica Abreu.
Mikki : And listen, Chicks in Construction is a podcast that exists to help you, a human, allegedly, be able to navigate the world of construction shenanigans [00:01:00] with a little bit more knowledge than you had before said podcast.
So we rely pretty heavily on you guys sharing with us what we call a homeowner horror story, but it's just basically a vent session where you get to go to our, our, our website, chicksinconstruction.com. You just scroll down a little bit. There's a little form right there, and you get to on the keyboard, just ,
Jessica : on the keyboard.
And for those of you who cannot see her- Yeah ... her hands are going
Mikki : wild. Wildly. I am smacking them keys like I play the piano professionally. So it's an, it's a vent sesh for you that we use to help other homeowners avoid having the same experience that you had. Mm-hmm. So you share your story. Don't...
Disregard my sound effects. They are, they're DIY.
Jessica : They're delightful.
Mikki : And we use that [00:02:00] to share your story. We, we put all the beef out there. We be beefin'. We... Jess does change names because she's not i- in the habit of getting sued. No. So she does change names, but it's a great opportunity for you to share your story, and then we kind of pick it apart a little bit and say, "Okay, here's where things- Mm-hmm
go wrong." So we rely really heavily on you guys, the homeowners, sharing your stories with us. So if you have a story that you would like a vent sesh moment to share with the world, we have about, like, 35, 36,000 subscribers at this point. Share with our 36,000 subscribers what had happened to you so that hopefully it can prevent somebody from having the same experience.
So we love you guys for sharing your stories. We appreciate you. Today's story is one that we sourced on the intranets. I did do some pretty, The deep diving was pretty intense. The deep
Jessica : dive.
Mikki : I went down the rabbit hole, and it was just a moment of like, [00:03:00] "What? What?" I've really been... Like, the, I think the more we do the podcast, the more I am realizing how...
I feel like s- construction licensing boards or just construction companies, they must have some of the best lobbyists in, like, state and local government- Than like any other arena
Jessica : Oh, I'm sure.
Mikki : Because like I will watch on the news, I think I- we shared this like a million podcasts ago, but I watched on the news this lady who at the time of the recording of this video, had been arrested in th- arrested 14 times- Oh, yep
for selling or falsely selling children's clothing. And she was arrested 14 times on the same, like, for the same case because it was across different counties.
Jessica : Okay.
Mikki : For [00:04:00] selling, or lack thereof, onesies And it was, like, a total, like, I think, I can't remember, it was, like, 40 or $60,000. So it wasn't, like, an insignificant amount of mon- about amount of money.
But so many of these stories are hundreds of thousands of dollars-
Jessica : And nothing is done ...
Mikki : where nothing is done. It's
Jessica : terrible.
Mikki : And there is obvious fraud. Mm-hmm. And there is obvious laws being broken. Mm-hmm. And the states are just like, "Eh, eh." That happened here in North Carolina. It's funny, it's funny. So I was watching Jeff Jackson, who's our current attorney general.
He, he gets on social and he talks about the cases that they're pursuing, which I think is kinda cool. It is cool. Previous to him, we didn't really have, like, a clear communication with- Mm-hmm ... the attorney general of, like, what they're taking on. So our current governor was our attorney general under Roy Cooper, and that case in Chatham...
No, not Chatham County. Um, it was in Charlotte, where the general contractors, like, [00:05:00] hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mm-hmm. And then, like, the la- the wife was, like, selling the land, and then the husband was the- Oh, she was a realtor? Yeah.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : Those people were never held accountable. They were never criminally charged.
And the, it was hundreds, like, I think it was, like, $600,000 plus. And there was, like, an interview where somebody had approached him at a he, he was attorney general at the time, and they were like, "What are you gonna do about it?" And he was like, "Do you have any idea how many complaints we get?" I'm like, "I don't care."
Yeah. This is hundreds of thousands of dollars. If a freaking lady in South Carolina can get arrested 14 times for not selling onesies- ... I think some Joe Schmoe who screwed somebody out of their entire life savings- Mm-hmm ... can be held accountable. Like, so Jeff Jackson seems like a nice guy. I've never met him.
He's on there, and he's talking about how they're, there's this photography company. Have you heard this story?
Jessica : No.
Mikki : So there's-
Jessica : I [00:06:00] also don't watch the news- Oh, that's true ... or-
Mikki : I punish myself by staying
Jessica : It's never good. I know. It's never good, so I rather just stay oblivious to it all. Oh, God. Ignorance for me is indeed bliss.
I have enough drama in my life. I don't need the world's problems.
Mikki : Yeah. Unfortunately, I love to punish myself. So I'm watching, there's this lady, and I heard, I heard, like, it when it first kinda came out. She's a ph- a wedding photographer. And-
Jessica : I saw this on Facebook ...
Mikki : yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah.
'Cause that's
Jessica : where I get my news from. Mm-hmm. If it makes it to Facebook- ... it's a big deal. Big deal.
Mikki : So she took, like- Millions apparently of dollars worth of, of people- Deposits ... depo- deposits. Um, like either people, nobody would show up on the day of their wedding, or somebody that wasn't the lady would show up.
Like, she would sub the workout.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : And then they would never get the pictures.
Jessica : Yeah.
Mikki : So, in the state [00:07:00] of North Cack, as a builder, you can screw people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and literally nothing is going to happen to you. We have yet to share a case in North Carolina where someone was actually held accountable.
Jessica : We are not suggesting that you become a contractor- No ... and do this. Don't. This
Mikki : is not- Because l- I love- Mm-hmm ... listen, karma, she never forgets an address. Yeah. But, but if you're a wedding photographer and you screw people over, you're going, Jeff Jackson is not only gonna come for you, but he's gonna do a whole social media post about it.
Oh. And I'm just like, it was funny. Do you have any idea how hard it was for me not to respond to that?
Jessica : Like that angry cat, like...
Mikki : Um- Oh ... to be like, "Well, what about the Mullbacks?" Or, "What about the people in Charlotte who hundreds of thousands of dollars, like you didn't get..." But it was, he wasn't the attorney general at the time, so it's like, let me not.
But oh my God, it took all in my soul to not just [00:08:00] be like... 'Cause it's just nonsense. It
Jessica : is.
Mikki : It is nonsense. Like, this is obviously law-breaking, and absolutely nobody cares. And I would, like today's story is just one of those where you're like, "What is, what is happening?" And the fact that there is such little consumer protection I think for homeowners-
Jessica : Mm-hmm
Mikki : I feel like there's a third c- wait, third, f- seventh career for me of, like, being a lobbyist for homeowners because I'm just like, somebody has got to hold these people accountable.
Yes. It is insane to me. We're gonna get into that, but it's, eh, yeah, it, it, it boils the nerve. It boils the nerve, um, that it is so easy to get away. It... Like, really you have to trigger some sort of federal crime and be the squeakiest wheel in order to get- Mm-hmm ... any kind of accountability for the things that [00:09:00] these contractors are, are doing, and it's just wild to me.
Like, yeah. So before we started recording, Jess and I were talking about how I'm a time optimist. Now, that is a really nice way of saying I'm late for everything.
Jessica : Everything.
Mikki : Literally everything. Everything. It's n- I hate it. I hate that I'm late to everything. It annoys me to no end. So it's like when people are like, "God, Mickey's late to everything," I'm like, "Yeah, she's the worst."
Jessica : Like- Just start telling her it's- We need to be there at 4:50. Yeah. She's like, "That's such an odd time," 'cause everybody else is gonna be there at 5:00.
Mikki : Yes. Honestly, that is the best thing you could do for me is tell me it's at 4:50, and I will be there at 5:00. Like, that is the move. And it was funny 'cause, like, for my birthday I said to Hector, "What time do we need to be there?"
And he said... Or I said, "What time..." I, I don't know. I said, "What time does it, what, what time do I need to be ready?" I think I said. Because I know myself. I know myself. I know that I need to know what time to be ready so that we can leave [00:10:00] on time. He said 6:00.
Jessica : You were supposed to be there at 6:00, weren't you?
We
Mikki : were supposed to be there at 6:00. Mm-hmm. And I,
Jessica : I was like, "Listen,
Mikki : 99.99999er percent of the time it is my fault that I'm late, but in this case, this is your fault." So there's video of me walking in them being like, "Surprise." And I'm like, "It's not my fault I'm late."
Jessica : To my own surprise party.
Mikki : I was like, "First of all..."
So yeah, I'm a, I like to call it, instead of a procrastinator, because that just seems derogative and mean, I call myself a time optimist. Love it. Where I just believe that I have more time than I actually do.
Jessica : Mm-hmm. And, and I always tell Mickey that there's actually been studies done that people who do tasks up until the very last minute- Yeah
and they make the most use of their time- Mm-hmm ... are highly intelligent. Mm, mm-hmm. So-
Mikki : I told her that she needed to say this on the podcast because listen-
Jessica : Ta-da ...
Mikki : not [00:11:00] everybody is so sure about my level of intelligence, and that shows itself in the comments section.
Jessica : Which is-
Mikki : Not so much on, on YouTube.
I've noticed that the YouTube spiciness level has been brought way down.
Jessica : Oh, yeah. People are just telling us how much they love us right now.
Mikki : Yeah. Which- And I'm just like, "Oh, my God. I love you. Let's be best friends." Um, so I'm here for that, so thank you. But it's on... 'Cause, 'cause here's the thing. I feel like if you're in YouTube in the comments, you actually watch the podcast.
And look, we're a freaking delight, okay? We're a freaking delight. So if you actually watch the podcast, you're into it. You're into this level of crazy. You're here for it. Jess is not crazy, but I'm batshit. So, it's not, it's never in the YouTube comments, but on the socials where these people do not watch the podcast, they're just being ser- essentially, they're being served rage bait by the algorithm.
Because we get the goose. We get the whole goose. Yep. [00:12:00] Sometimes we get the gander of, of the men-
Jessica : We're just out there annoying- ...
Mikki : on the social ... all the
Jessica : men.
Mikki : They get so upset. For existing. Yeah, just the fact that we are alive is a real problem for many a men in construction, and they do not appreciate that we're calling out their scams.
And, you know.
Jessica : We're just gonna keep doing it.
Mikki : Listen, it's a can't stop, won't stop situation. Especially when I realized that we are the only podcast that does this.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : I was like, "Okay. Well, I mean, even more reason why we need to be calling out the scams." We, w- scammers be scamming, and we gotta let people know.
Jessica : We gotta.
Mikki : But yeah. So apparently- My constant time optimism is just a sign of my extreme intelligence. Mm-hmm. I've also been told that people who curse a lot are extremely intelligent, and to that I say, "I thank you."
Jessica : See, that
Mikki : went on my sometimes- Oh, gee, I can barely keep all the brain in my head. Or is that my ego?
No one [00:13:00] really knows. So yeah, apparently Jess's husband... It was funny. She was telling me stories about Brad's time optimism.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : And I was like, "It feels like you have found my diary and you are reading it out loud."
Jessica : Yeah. He likes to, he likes to say, "Oh, we have, we have an hour and a half? Oh, well it's only gonna take me 10 minutes to get ready."
It does not take him 10 minutes to get ready. Yeah. It takes him more like a half hour, but he doesn't want to admit that. And then he'll go and do stuff, anything. It can be like, "Oh, I'm going to rearrange the garage now because I have an hour." I'm like, "Sir, that is going to take you way longer than an hour."
You're like, "
Mikki : That's a day project. Potentially a weekend project." Yep. But the time optimist is like, "Nah, I can knock this out in 15 minutes."
Jessica : And we have two children, and, um, nobody likes to get rid of anything. Yeah. So if, if it needs to be thrown away- Special trash ... yeah, I have to do it.
Mikki : Jess, Jess is out here just like causing [00:14:00] trauma by throwing all the things
Jessica : away.
All the things away, and then they ask for them. Like, "Hmm, I don't remember where you put that last. We'll have to, we'll have to see if it turns up."
Mikki : Oh, that's a good one. So my sister is like that. So I feel like- Everybody handles the trauma of childhood differently. Mm-hmm. And mine is hoarding. I'm like, "No, no, no, let me keep all the special trash."
Mm-hmm. "I gotta keep it in my house so I have it to touch and to look at from time to time." And Chelsea's the opposite. She's like, "I throw everything out." Mm-hmm. To the point where, like, her kids have, like, mild PTSD from, like, if they left it on the floor, it might now be in the trash. Oh
Jessica : my goodness.
Mikki : Which...
And I like that. We'll have to see if it turns up, because she doesn't play that game. She's like, "Well, did you leave it on the floor? Okay, then you know where it is." Mm. With Jesus.
Jessica : Yeah. I have, like- S- like, every fall and spring, I go through, like, this nesting phase where I'm like- Oh, look
Mikki : at you ... "
Jessica : Oh, I can't deal with all [00:15:00] of the stuff."
If you looked at my husband's office right now- Oh ... I can't even go in there, because-
Mikki : You should see my office.
Jessica : It's bad ... he likes to keep, he likes to try to sell anything that he can on Marketplace.
Mikki : Oh, good gravy.
Jessica : He, he loves to buy stuff on Marketplace- Yeah ... and he loves to sell it, so all of the girls' clothes that they don't fit in anymore are in these piles across the floor of his office.
Oh. And his office is long- Wow ... and narrow.
Mikki : Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica : And then his desk is at the end.
Mikki : Yeah, so you have to walk by all the piles.
Jessica : So if the door is open, all you see is this line of clothes that-
Mikki : Interesting ...
Jessica : and I'm like-
Mikki : Clothes, do people buy clothes?
Jessica : Yes.
Mikki : Oh, really?
Jessica : So my- Do you,
Mikki : like, a bundle? Do you, like, a bundle of kids' clothes- Yeah
or do you have to
Jessica : take
Mikki : a picture of each individual
Jessica : item? So, like, some of the stuff he'll take a picture of, like, their dresses that are, like-
Mikki : Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. You
Jessica : know?
Mikki : Dresses are cute ...
Jessica : are, like, the high... Like, not the ones that we got at, like, Old Navy or Target- Yeah, yeah ... or whatever, but, like, the [00:16:00] nice ones.
He'll take a picture of those separately- Okay ... and try to sell them. But usually it's like, "Here's a bag of size five summer clothing for girls." Oh. Just like, "Take it." Hm. Shorts, pants, shirts. Like, he'll sometimes, like, just do that, but-
Mikki : I'd be keeping the Salvation Army in business. Oh, yeah. Okay? Like, when, when we hired Maria at Clearly Organized, which, listen, if you're local- Mm
and you wanna hire an organizing company, oh, these, they're the best. And I've hired multiple organizing companies, 'cause as we have discussed just a moment ago, trauma leads to hoarding. And I've got a lot of it. So I hired them. I think I started using them last year. They came on the podcast. Mm-hmm. But I have, like, a maintenance thing with them where they come every month and just, like, fix all the things that they did that I destroyed.
Jessica : Nice.
Mikki : They were here actually today, and she went through my pantry, and I was like, "I'm a problem." The amount of food that had expired and we had to throw out.
Jessica : Where is your pantry?
Mikki : By the back- [00:17:00] Then you know those cabinets that are in the corner of the kitchen?
Jessica : Oh, yeah.
Mikki : By the sliding glass door?
Jessica : Yeah.
Mikki : That's my pantry.
Jessica : Oh, okay. Yeah. I was like, wait a minute. There, I, there's
Mikki : no- It's very small. So you would be, like, how did- ... two construction size trash bags come out of, of expired food, come out of that pantry? I came upstairs and I was like- Stop
Jessica : buying food that you're not gonna cook ...
Mikki : apparently. Like, she was like, "So these are all expired," and I was like, "What?"
The one bag, I couldn't even pick it up. I was like, "Hector." It was so ridiculous. So ridiculous. So yeah, like I never... I d- I donate. I don't sell. I tried to sell stuff- Mm-hmm ... and it did not go well. And I was like, "Okay, this is nonsense." Yep. I don't have time to deal with crazy people.
Jessica : Nope. So I don't either, and I don't have the patience for-
Mikki : No
Jessica : the stuff in my house. No. So I'll, I told him the other day, I was like, "Listen, you have until we come back from vacation for this stuff to be gone." Oh. Which really gives him a week because- Yeah, yeah ... then we leave.
Mikki : Yeah, yeah.
Jessica : Um, because when we come back, [00:18:00] I'm putting all of this in boxes, and it's going to be donated because- Yeah
I am done.
Mikki : Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah. I get it.
Jessica : But yeah.
Mikki : That is one thing I've gotten pretty good about, is like just to, to donate it. Like, it was funny 'cause when she came for her last maintenance, we tackled Hector's closet. Oh my God. And she pulled out linens for beds we don't even have anymore.
That's amazing. But I'd been hoarding them.
Jessica : Just in case.
Mikki : Yeah, you never know when you're gonna downsize to a queen again. Um- 'Cause we got a king-sized bed because Callie insists on sleeping in bed with us, on my pillow, right next to me. It's ridiculous. She's a real, she's a real ridiculous creature.
Anyhoo and so she was, she like pulled all the queen b- sheets out and was like, "So what do you wanna do with these?" And I was like, "Oh, well, if they don't have stains, let's donate them." And she goes, "I'm so proud of you." And I was like, "Am I that bad about getting rid of stuff?" And she's like, "
Jessica : Yeah."
Mikki : I was like, "Oh, wow, okay.
Well, thanks for being proud of me."
Jessica : Look at you, [00:19:00] making big steps.
Mikki : Look at me. So listen, I'm gonna admit to you guys that our last podcast, it was a little weak. It was a little weak. The script coulda, it c- it had some holes, and I, I took that i- to heart. I was, I was... Wow, I, it hurt my feelings. So this, this time, the deep dive is back.
I, and part of me knows why I don't do the deep dive, because when I do the deep dive- ... it, it just irritates my soul in such a way.
Jessica : And the, the vein starts popping.
Mikki : Oh my God, I was reading through this story and, like, watching all the videos and all the things on the internet about it, and I was like, "This is nonsense."
So this, this is our, or we're, we're, a redemption moment on, on the script. Redemption. It was just one bad one. Like, it's not like I don't know. It's all right.
Jessica : We're allowed.
Mikki : We're, I, I miss the mark from time to time. Rah, rah. Rah, rah. So but this one, the title for this one is The Dream Home [00:20:00] Disaster: How an Arizona Couple Lost $400,000 and Ended Up With Two Unfinished Homes.
Um.
Jessica : Mm, mm, mm.
Mikki : So,
Jessica : Mm, mm, mm.
Mikki : Nothing about this is funny, but I do inappropriate laugh. I think we've all figured that out. When I'm, anything happens that, like, I'm a little uncomfortable, I will laugh. Yes. So just please don't take my laughing as like I think any of this is funny. I don't. But as we get into it and I get more and more irritated, it's either I rampage or I laugh.
So we would all rather the laugh. Like, trust me, the rampage is not a good look. So imagine spending your entire life preparing for retirement. You save, you invest, you work for decades, and then finally you decide it's time. Time to build the house you've dreamed of for years, not just a home, but your forever home.
The place where holidays happen, where grandkids visit, where retirement begins. Now imagine writing a check After check. [00:21:00] Hundreds of thousands of dollars, watching construction start, watching progress happen, and then slowly realizing something wasn't right. The phone calls became harder to return, the delays became harder to explain, the promises harder to believe.
And one day you discover that the company building your home has filed for bankruptcy. Mm-hmm. And you're left standing in front of not one, but two unfinished homes.
Jessica : I... Hmm.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah, I know,
Mikki : like, as I started reading into the details of this I was like they're, they were so, this building company was so obviously in financial trouble and knew it.
And that's where I can't, like, spoiler alert, guys, they were not charged with a crime. But it is so obvious, when we get into the story, that they were broke and that they were trying to get as much money out of this couple as they could, [00:22:00] knowing they were putting them in financial hardship. They knew that they were putting them in financial hardship, and did it anyway because they needed money to pay off their over 100 vendors that they owed money to.
Jessica : Holy goodness. I
Mikki : know.
Jessica : So today we're gonna be talking about a story that every homeowner thinking about building a custom home needs to hear. Because this isn't a story about a bad title, a bad tile work, sorry, or poor communication. Listen, I didn't sleep last night. It's gonna be-
Mikki : We're doing the best we can, you guys.
Jessica : Words are gonna be tough today. Words, words, words. I couldn't even put my contacts in 'cause my eyes are so dry and tired.
Mikki : Oh. Sorry.
Jessica : You didn't even notice I had glasses on, did you?
Mikki : I noticed your glasses. Oh, okay. I just didn't... Listen, we've discussed this. I'm bad, I'm a bad noticer.
Jessica : That's all right. All right, so this story isn't about bad tile work or poor communication.
This is a story about what happens when homeowners put their trust and their life savings in the wrong builder. "
Mikki : [00:23:00] So Elizabeth Mat- Elizabeth Matthews and her husband were, were senior citizens. Now it's funny because I think we have discussed on the pod several times- Mm-hmm
that I got scolded. I went to an event where I was speaking on a panel for senior citizens, and I was scolded for referring to a woman as being a senior citizen. Mm-hmm. And I feel like this will live in, in infamy in my brain, like, that I'm not allowed to call senior citizens senior citizens anymore 'cause I'm, I'm just like, "I don't know what to call you then."
Old. Person of wisdom. Like,
Jessica : Do you wanna be called an old lady?
Mikki : But it was funny 'cause, like, watching her ta- like call herself a senior citizen, I was like, "Oh, she looks even younger than the lady that told me she was not a senior citizen." So now I just don't know. So according to reporting- They had waited their entire lives for this project.
Elizabeth Tolbert Forters, "We are senior citizens, and we have been waiting our whole lives for this project." The couple hired Settlers West Home Builder in May of 2022 to build their custom [00:24:00] home in Tucson's Catalina Foothills. Hmm. Um, which it... Listen, I know, I know I already have beef with Florida. I'm not trying to have beef with Arizona, I'm not.
But have you ever flown into Arizona?
Jessica : No.
Mikki : It is the color brown. Like, when you fly home, when we be flying home to North Cack, she green, she lush. She's, she's vibrant. She's g- she's serving nature vibes. Arizona is a desert, and it looks like a desert. And then you get there, and it's like, where's the green?
It's just, it's different shades of brown. So I'm not hating on Arizona, but when I was looking at the pictures of, like, the house, I was like, "But where are the trees?"
Jessica : There aren't any. They- There's some cactus ...
Mikki : they don't have them. They do have, they have succulents. Um, the contract price for their primary home was more than a million dollars.
Most of that funding came from a construction [00:25:00] loan.
Jessica : Hmm. That's not a speculative investment. That's someone's retirement plan. Like, that is so much money.
Mikki : Yeah, like a million dollars. I'm like, what were,
Jessica : what was your job, and can I maybe get a job there?
Mikki : For real. I'm like, you're retiring buying a million dollar, building a million dollar home.
So- Within about a month of signing, the Matthews paid more than $150,000 in deposits, which actually for a million dollar home, $150,000 is not a, like, a wild amount of deposit money. Like, that's... I mean, a million dollar home, this is, this is a pretty- This, yeah ... decent deposit. So I think the thing to take into consideration in this story is it's not always that the deposit was too much or that the dep- deposit was the problem, it was that this company was not operating under good faith- Mm-hmm
and they were not being honest with what was really happening financially in their company, and they [00:26:00] were taking on more work than they knew that they could feasibly even finish given the financial situation that they were in. So
here's what I think was really interesting. So after they got the million dollar contract for the new construction o- of the home- Mm-hmm ... these, this, it was the brothers, the, the Settlers West home builder was two brothers.
Jessica : Okay.
Mikki : And after they signed the contract for the, the main house, they convinced the homeowners to build a guest house on the property.
B- this being a separate contract from the main contract, which, okay, that is right there a red flag because when you're adding something to an existing project, it is an addendum or a change order that you add to your existing contract. But they very specifically wanted to keep this separate because the other thing that they convinced them to do was to do it outside of their construction loan.
Jessica : Construction loan. Mm.
Mikki : [00:27:00] So they basically came to this couple and said, "Hey, listen, we really s- you know, think you guys would be best served by building this, you know, ad- additional home," like as, like a, kind of like a mother-in-law suite, "for your grandkids and for your family when they come to visit."
Jessica : Because they can't fit in the million dollar home that they were building. Right.
Mikki : The million dollar home, just not big enough apparently.
Jessica : That's crazy.
Mikki : And they're like, "And hey, by the way," and this isn't in the script, but it was from, like, all the researching that I did, "We
, if you don't put it through your construction loan, and you do a separate contract and you pay in cash, we will give you a massive discount."
Okay. That- Oh ... is another- No, no, no ... major red flag because them s- like, and I've had somebody, a, a, a, a, somebody that we were buying something from, like, I think it was for our wedding, it's like a million and a half years ago when Hector and I were getting married. The s- the venue came to us and said, "Hey, listen, if you pay in full [00:28:00] now, we will give you," it was like a 20% discount, which l- look, as you know, I am bougie.
Mm-hmm. And 20% was a vast amount of money, and I was like, "Take my money." Not, I was also 20-something years old, so I didn't have the level of experience that I have now. Now, luckily, that worked out, but what I learned later was that they were really strapped for cash.
Jessica : And they needed
Mikki : your payment. And they needed my payment to be able to keep their company going.
Now, I got really lucky that they were still in business by the time our wedding actually happened. Mm-hmm. And they ended up having to kinda do a fire sale and get rid of the company and sell it to somebody else. So I got really lucky that we weren't in that boat. But any time somebody is coming to you in a construction setting- And they're, they're offering you big discounts to move out of w- areas that you have protection.
'Cause if you think about it, right, the construction loan, their, this company, this [00:29:00] woman's bank, was doing some things to k- prevent them from overpaying.
Jessica : Right.
Mikki : So they didn't wanna deal with the bank, they wanted cash, they wanted it right now, and their way of getting access to that cash was by offering a really big discount.
And that I think is w- weird in a couple of ways. If you have 20% that you can walk away from of, for a discount, you're overcharging me.
Jessica : Right. I was just going to ask that because, I mean, with building a home, you have all the materials, you have all the furn- like the cabinets- Yeah ... the, the tiles. Like, those all have set prices.
You're not getting-
Mikki : Right ...
Jessica : a discount on all of those. Right. So, like, I would've been like, "Well, where is that discount coming from?"
Mikki : Right, like, so you're telling me you're, e- either they're admitting that they're g- they're willing to not make money on this project-
Jessica : Which then why would you even offer it?
Which
Mikki : is why would you do it? Or they're saying, "Hey, we've [00:30:00] marked up your project so much that we have 20% to walk away from and still make money." Both of those choices are bad choices. Mm-hmm. And the, the thing is too, it's like if, if you wanna come to somebody and say, "Hey, listen..." I, and I think in the case now that I'm thinking about the whole wedding thing, where we had our wedding was this big historical house, and they were, they had kind of slowly bought all of the little, like, bungalow houses in the neighborhood- Okay
that you could rent for, like, your family. 'Cause it was in the middle of nowhere so there wasn't, like, hotels readily available.
Jessica : So they could all stay there.
Mikki : So you, they, so I think they were in the process of buying one of those little bungalows- Mm ... and they needed the cash, and they were upfront about it.
And I was like, "Okay, that makes sense." In this situation, w- it's, there's just no good answer. It's either you've marked this up so much that you can walk away from 20%, or you need money so badly, and why- Mm-hmm ... do you [00:31:00] need money so badly? Mm-hmm. So they basically convince these people, the, the, the addition, the addition to the c- well, the, the new contract- The new house
the new house was, they, was for $300,000. And they needed to pay for it in cash. Mm-mm. And this, this fam- this couple did not have that kind of cash. So in order to make it happen, they sold the home they were living in.
Jessica : Wait. So they don't have a house to go into.
Mikki : Nope.
Jessica : And instead of just accepting that they were having $1 million house- Yep
they decided to sell the only house that they were living in.
Mikki : Yep.
Jessica : So where the heck did they go?
Mikki : They were renting. So- According-
Jessica : So they're paying a loan.
Mikki : Yeah. They were paying rent- A loan ... they were paying the construction loan, they were paying the construction company, and then they were paying a rental.
In order- Wow ... to be able to pay this much. So it says, according to Elizabeth Matthews, the Carava... Cart- Listen, I heard them [00:32:00] say their name, and I was like, "Oh, let me remember how to say that." No, I'm not gonna say it right. Anyway, Carava Brothers encouraged them not to finance the guest house. Instead, they suggested paying a large portion in cash.
Mm-hmm. The problems, the Matthews didn't have the money, so they sold their existing home. According to the reporting, they sold their home to fund the guest house and paid another $150,000 deposit. Mm. And that's where I want homeowners listening to pay attention, because this was the moment that they became fully committed.
Their old house was gone, their retirement plan was tied to these projects succeeding.
Jessica : And they're all $300,000 in.
Mikki : Right.
Jessica : The two-
Mikki : Straight out the gate, they're $300,000 in- And nothing's done ... and now they don't have the house that they were living in. They're renting.
Jessica : Oh, my God.
Mikki : Yeah, it's just absolutely insane.
So soon after- Oh, my God ... they paid the additional $150,000, that's when the delays started [00:33:00] appearing. According to the lawsuit, the guest's house experienced significant permitting delays. Of
Jessica : course it
Mikki : did. The Matthews becames concerned, and eventually they asked for the $150,000 deposit for the guest house back, which they never received.
Jessica : And that's the moment most homeowners start realizing that they're in trouble.
Mikki : Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. But here's what happens psychologically. By then, you're already invested so much. So much money, so much time, so much emotion, you wanna believe the next promise. And we see that in every- Every
Jessica : story ...
Mikki : every story.
Mm-hmm. And I get it. Like, your, your house is demolished.
Jessica : Yep.
Mikki : You're washing your dishes in your sink, or you're showering at your parents', or you're showering at the gym or in one case it was in a basement. Like your life- ... is torn up, nothing is normal, and you just want this to end. Mm-hmm. And the idea of bringing somebody else in and kinda stopping and starting again, and the time delays, it just seems like, "Whatever, I'm [00:34:00] gonna stick it out with this guy."
The problem is it never ends that way.
Jessica : It
Mikki : never ends well. You always have to hire somebody else anyway, , And at that point it's gonna cost you five times the amount, and five times the amount of time, like money and time- Yeah ... that it would've cost you the second you started to feel like- Mm ... mm, this isn't gonna work out If you had fired them then, you would've saved yourself a tremendous amount of time and money.
And that's the thing that I think-
Jessica : And I think it's hard, too, because if you have in the back of your mind, like, "These people aren't going to give me my money back." Yeah. So do I, like, stick it to them, make them do the work?
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica : Or do I just walk away from all that money- Yeah ... and get somebody else?
Mikki : And I get
Jessica : it.
It would be hard.
Mikki : It would be hard to walk away. I, it is a hard, it is a hard position to be in. Um, so I'm not, listen, I'm not saying that it's easy. The diff- No ... the degree of difficulty is very high. Mm-hmm. But it's something that we, it just has to be discussed. Yeah. Like, the reality of if you get that feeling, [00:35:00] of the, like, they're just not showing up, they're just not doing it.
I've given them $300,000 and nothing is happening. Mm-hmm. And they're not responding to you quickly, and they're not telling you, "Okay, here's what happened."
Jessica : Yeah. Well, also, I'm thinking now, like, the first $150,000- Was for the million,
Mikki : yeah ...
Jessica : for the million-dollar home, that's 15%, so that's n- normal.
Mikki : Mm-hmm.
Jessica : But then they give 150,000 for a 300... That's 50%. Right, so it's 50%,
Mikki : exactly. So- No
Jessica : way. Yeah. It should've been-
Mikki : Yeah ...
Jessica : that, ugh.
Mikki : That's where it's like-
Jessica : That's so frustrating ...
Mikki : and it's like one thing, okay, sell your house and pay them money as they do the work. The work. Not, "I'm gonna give you a 50% deposit," and that honestly, that was the biggest mistake that this woman made.
And when I was watching all the videos, there was one video where she started crying and saying, you know, "I just wanna share my story so that other people can know and not make the same mistake." Ugh. And she was talking about how she felt so stupid. And I was like, "Listen." You don't know what you don't know.
And so, I, w- and we get this a lot- Mm-hmm ... in, [00:36:00] in the Homeowner Horror Stories that people submit, where people feel like, "I should have known." How would you have known? How would you have known? If you didn't watch this podcast, how would you have known? If, if nobody told you that this isn't normal, and that this isn't how things go, and these are a problem, these are red flags, how are you supposed to know?
So the last thing I want is for any of you to feel like you are the problem in this cir- circumstance. Like yes, you got taken advantage of, and I know that hurts because it's happened to me and it's the worst. But it's also not your fault.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : So I definitely wanna be, like, really clear about that. So by September, end October of 2023, the Matthews paid another $105,000 towards the guest house, because they believed the completion was finally close.
And when I read that, it, I'm really glad I did all the research that I did, because when I read that I thought, "Okay, well if they paid... They'd already paid 150,000 on a $300,000 contract." Yeah. And then turned around and paid another $105,000. [00:37:00] Okay, the, it has to be, like, mostly done. No. It was not.
Jessica : What, what was done?
Mikki : It was framed. It was framed. That was it.
Jessica : So they did- No drywall ...
Mikki : nothing. No plumbing. No drywall, no plumbing, no- No
Jessica : electrical ...
Mikki : nothing. Like, it was framed. So they paid, what- Oh, man ... a hundred, $255,000? Mm-hmm. So they, there was $45,000 left to do all of the finishes, to do all of the wor- The roof ... like, the roof was on- Okay
and it was framed, and that was it. And so that triggered me- Oh, my God ... to think, okay, we do need to talk about, and we're gonna talk about it a little bit later, we do need to talk about how you the homeowner, when you're dealing with paying bills-
Jessica : Mm ...
Mikki : can determine how much to pay. Because I realize we talk about that a lot, but we've never kind of broken it down, so in this podcast we are gonna break it down.
Jessica : Break it down.
Mikki : So they also reported paying nearly $60,000 for upgrades that they never received. I didn't get a lot of [00:38:00] information on what those upgrades were.
Jessica : It was probably finishes that was going into- Yeah ... either of the houses. It was, yeah. They were like, "Oh, for a million dollars you just get builder grade."
But
Mikki : And they're like, "No- You want builder
Jessica : grade ...
Mikki : we want the nicer stuff." Yeah. So s- for the two to $60,000. And these are the, n- neither one of the houses were anything other than framed. Like, they had- Gosh ... the roofs on and they were framed, but there was literally nothing else in there. Um-
Jessica : Crazy. So they're hundreds of thousands of dollars into this project now.
Mikki : Yeah. There are hund- and, and so like, so it's actually more than $400,000 of losses. Ugh. And this is just for this, for this couple. So one thing that I realized in the research is that there were at least 18 complaints on this builder's license.
Jessica : Oh, wow.
Mikki : So there were 18 families that they had screwed over, and the only lawsuit that I could find was, um, Elizabeth, I believe was her first name, Matthews, um, because she actually had the financial ability to [00:39:00] sue.
So all of the other people had been screwed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars- And didn't have anything left ... and did not have the resource. So that's why there's not like a, like a legal- Mm ... like lawsuits against them, just the one. Because that's the only one who had the financial ability to sue them.
Ugh. So that's another thing to keep in mind is when somebody has 18 complaints on their license and there's only one lawsuit, that's not a shining endorsement that they hadn't done anything wrong. Yeah. It's because they screwed those people out of so much money that they couldn't even afford to sue them.
Jessica : And a lot of times the lawyers will say that there's nothing- Yeah ... that they can even do. So it's going to cost you more money- Yeah ... to file the lawsuit- Yeah ... and go through everything than it, than the money that you're going to get back. Yeah. So sometimes it ends up being-
Mikki : Yeah, a lot of- ... not worth it
people don't sue because the cost to sue is so much- So high. Mm-hmm ... that it's just like, "Whatever. It's not worth it."
Jessica : Ugh.
Mikki : So then here comes the twist. After spending what would've been, sending in their last check, the Matthews [00:40:00] discovers, discovered that Settlers West had filed for bankruptcy in December of 2023.
Jessica : I can't even imagine that feeling that they have- No ... because that's, that's the end. Yeah. There is ... Your money is gone.
Mikki : Right. The, you're no longer worried about delays. You- You're wondering whether the project can even be completed.
Jessica : It can't be. They have no money.
Mikki : Yeah. Yeah. They've, they're, they're bankrupt.
Mm-hmm. So when I was doing the research on all the different news channels that covered this, um, one of them stated that, so- I don't feel bad at all for these builders, I'm gonna be straight up. But it was funny when the news c- companies would call them- Mm-hmm ... like, to, to get comments on record. They were, like, the meekest sh- like the, the guy was like, "No, I'm not allowed to talk about it.
Um, my, my, I'd have to talk to my lawyer." Yeah, it was like the gentlest little voice. I was expecting this, like, booming like, somebody like yelling- Oh, their lawyer- ... on the phone, "Don't call me," you know?
Jessica : Their lawyer 100% told them that is how- Oh, 100% ... you have to [00:41:00] act so that you don't seem like the problem.
Yeah. Oh, yes. Because if you're meek and-
Mikki : Yes ...
Jessica : quiet.
Mikki : Honestly, good tactic too, 'cause I was like, I was like, "Oh, I'm so surprised these guys are taking it," 'cause he wasn't yelling. And I'm like, "Oh, that's- Mm-hmm ...
Jessica : probably not the way to look at that." And then you make the other, then you make the people who are suing you- Seem like they're the problem
seem like they're the issue.
Mikki : Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which, listen, Jess and I have both experienced that.
Jessica : Yep.
Mikki : So according to Arizona's register of contractors, which I think is their licensing board, there were 18 complaints filed against the Settlers West between February 2022 and February 2024. Hm. The company's license was ultimately revoked in February of 2024.
Jessica : Good grief.
Mikki : I know, 18
Jessica : complaints. 18, that's so many.
Mikki : And it raises-
Jessica : In a short amount of time.
Mikki : Yeah, it was in two years. So, and, and that honestly is really interesting because it clearly shows that something financially happened. So, like, they hadn't, they didn't have any complaints until 2022, and then 18 complaints.[00:42:00]
So clearly something happened.
Jessica : Somebody be gambling.
Mikki : R- you know? Mm. I mean, somebody's got- I mean, I'm just gonna- ... expensive habits.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : So, it, and that kinda begs the question, like, how many complaints are too many? And- Two. Three? That's your nu- that's your number? Two. Two. I'm- I want to say, 'cause listen, it is a hard, it's a hard thing to like, to, to juggle, right?
Mm-hmm. Because it's like, on one hand, people are crazy. We know this.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Mikki : We, like, if you go into the Google review of literally any company, you're gonna read some wild-ass comment and be like, "What?" You know? Yep. Like, there's, there's, there's... I leave co- I leave reviews all the time. I leave great reviews and I leave reviews where I let people know like, "Listen, you need to do better."
Um, but like, you have to take into the fa- into account whenever you're looking through reviews that like, yeah, some people are [00:43:00] crazy. So I wanna like give room for that crazy person-
Jessica : That's
Mikki : one ... and say r- And honestly, I think one is the number. If there are two reviews that, that sound similar, this is clearly a pr- a pattern-
Jessica : Yeah
and a
Mikki : problem.
Jessica : But I mean, I feel like the complaints on their license-
Mikki : Is different than a Google review ... is different than a Google review. Right? 'Cause you have to... Like listen, I have tried, I have tried to report somebody for falsely representing themselves as a licensed general contractor in the state of North Carolina.
Can I tell you that the board could've cared less? Yep. I, so I was made aware of it by another licensed general contractor who saw it and was really upset about it. Because listen, it's hard to get your general contractor's license. You have to be committed. You have to study hard. You have to work hard.
And so when somebody misrepresents themselves as a licensed general contractor, it pisses other licensed general contractors off because one, [00:44:00] that's not cool, and two, it gives every, all of us a bad, a bad rep. Like, especially women in construction. Mm-hmm. Like, it's hard enough for women to start with, but for some dumb chick who woke up one day and decided, "I'm a contractor"
Jessica : to- I like how you used that C-word and not the one that I thought was gonna come out of your mouth.
Mikki : Listen.
Jessica : I saw your brain like, like glitch for a
Mikki : second. My, my brain was like, "Oh, don't say that on YouTube." 'Cause I was gonna go there. Um- Sorry ... but for, for, for that to happen, for it- It's like we are already working ag- up- we're up against all of these presumptions that women don't know what they're doing and they don't belong in construction.
And so we already have to deal with that. So some, some chick that wakes up one day and decides, "I'm a contractor now," and goes out and represents herself as a contractor and represents herself as a licensed general contractor, it makes us all look bad. And you better believe, look at me, dead in my eye, [00:45:00] you better believe if you're out here misrepresenting yourself as a licensed general contractor and you're not one, I don't care if you're a woman, I don't care if you're a man, I don't care if you're non-freaking-binary, I'm gonna call and report you.
And I'm, there's a long list of people that called on this particular woman to report them. And I honestly think the only reason why it was resolved is because it was the quantity of the amount of people calling. But the licensing board could have absolutely cared less. So for somebody to call and report on a license, you have to do work to do that.
Mm-hmm. So it is different from a Google review. Different. Mm-hmm. You don't just click on a link and like c- c- c- c- c- get all angry cat on it. No. You have to call somebody. You have to l- have a phone conversation. You have to explain in detail when you're, you're filing these complaints against contractors.
So I think one bad re- like one complaint on a, on a [00:46:00] license is honestly something to consider. Just one, I think should ... If you've done the work right to like check these people out- Mm-hmm ... to make sure that they're licensed, to check their license to see if they have complaints, you obviously are not here for shenanigans.
So why work with somebody who has, if it's this hard to leave a complaint.
Jessica : True.
Mikki : Why work with somebody that has a complaint on their license when there are people out there all day long that don't have those complaints on their license? Knowing
Jessica : there's a complaint on a license, can you see what the complaint is?
Mikki : It depends on the state.
Jessica : Okay.
Mikki : So I do know, like in the state of Ari- Arizona, where this was, they could call and find out like what the title of the complaint was.
Jessica : Okay.
Mikki : But if the complaint was ongoing, they could not give you a bunch of information. If it had been resolved, and then they could tell you what happened.
But if it was like still something that they were investigating and that was ongoing, they would tell you [00:47:00] that the complaint was there, but they couldn't give you information about- Mm ... specifically what the complaint was. And here's my thing. I'm not saying that contractors are a dime a dozen, but I'm also saying contractors are a dime a dozen.
You can throw a penny into a crowd and hit five different tradespeople. If you come across somebody and they have a complaint on their license, I think the move is just to keep looking. Like, I, I, I say that reluctantly because I know that a lot of good people have gotten complaints on their license for things that maybe weren't legitimate, or it was, it was bad communication, or it was bad things- Mm-hmm
and people were pissed, and they left complaints on their license. But as m- as much as we wanna, like, be supportive and we want to en- be encouraging towards other contractors, we're really here to help you not get screwed over. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, we've just seen too much at this point.
Jessica : Yep.
Mikki : We've just seen too much.
You know it's on the bottom of the- So if somebody has a complaint on their license, the amount of, [00:48:00] of complaints that, that they should have on their license is zero. Is zero. And if you really wanna work with somebody and they have one, okay, but if there's more than one, it's a run, don't walk situation.
So the reporting states that completing both projects would require at least another $400,000 with a different contractor, and I did see her talking to the news reporter about that they've had some people come out and give them quotes, but they were having a really hard time finding somebody that actually was willing to actually do the work.
Like, they would give them numbers- Mm ... but it was kind of like, "Eh, I'm not sure if we could take it on. This is about how much it would cost." And that's like, I get that in a really weird w- w- real way, because every once in a while, I'll have a client that took the lowest bid despite me telling them this is gonna end badly.
And, [00:49:00] like, we had a situation, I think I've talked about it before, where one of our largest clients gave one of the jobs they were gonna give to us away- Mm-hmm ... to our, um he's not my competitor. He's some dude who woke up one day and decided he was a drywall contractor. And I don't do residential homes.
We do multi-family projects. So there's very specific ways that these walls have to be built. Mm-hmm. And there's very, there's different types of drywall, and there's all d- like, each wall could have a different type of drywall, and that drywall can be installed in a different way. And they hired Joe Schmo, and Joe Schmo hung the entire building in half-inch drywall, which meant that not a single one of those walls met the code compliance and the, the-
fire rating, not a single one.
Jessica : Good job.
Mikki : Right. And I'm like, "You get what you pay for." And they probably saved $200,000 to spend about a million bucks. Um, so they called me up and they're like, "Hey, this is what happened." And I was like-
Jessica : Hmm ... "
Mikki : Yeah, that's what it, what I told you what would [00:50:00] happen." And they're like, "Yeah.
Well, you were right." And I was like, "I, I appreciate you telling me that I'm right, but it's not gonna butter me up to get me to come fix this guy's work." So when she's saying, like, she can't find somebody to come out and fix the work, I get that because no contractor, no matter what, no matter what they're doing-
Jessica : Yeah, but then they would want you to go tear all that down and- Yes
then put up this... No
Mikki : Right. I don't wanna do that. Triple. You should've given me the job in the first place. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna come fix Joe Schmo's, or what, what we like to call in the industry Billy the Butcher.
Jessica : Hmm.
Mikki : I don't want to fix Billy the Butcher's work. You should've hired me to do it in the first place, and all of my other clients hire me to do it right in the first place.
So I wanna go give my time and attention to the clients who care- Mm-hmm ... about paying- For quality work ... for quality work. So I get it that she's having a hard time finding somebody to finish this work, because it was liter- literally just framed. So all of the finishes, [00:51:00] all of the things that went in, I think, like, m- I'm sure, like, some mechanical work and some electrical work was done.
But all of the things that make a house a home were not there.
Jessica : Mm-mm.
Mikki : Also, you have to factor in that people don't wanna deal with ... Now you're super jaded because you got epically screwed over by this homeowner, and you're going ... Or by this-
Jessica : Contractor ...
Mikki : contractor. And you're gonna be super vigilant. So now you're gonna be on top of everything, and you're gonna be driving these real- these, like, good contractors crazy because you've been screwed over, but not by them.
So I totally get why she's having a hard time finding somebody to do it. Yeah,
Jessica : and she's essentially paying for the same dream house twice.
Mikki : Yeah. Now- Exactly. And that's something that homeowners often don't understand. When a builder fails mid-project, you don't start where they left off. The contractor has to evaluate everything, correct mistakes, assume liability, and rebuild trust with the trades.
And the [00:52:00] assume liability is a really important piece. If that framer, if, if that builder did not frame those houses, they didn't put the roof on it, when they take over that project, they own the framing. They own the roof. Mm. Because it's not like, if your roof fails, it's not like they can go back to the, the general contractor who took over the project and the general contractor will say, "Well, well, ma'am, you know we didn't put that roof on."
Right. "So why are you calling us?" They're calling you because the other person's out of co- out of business, and you took on this. So there is a massive amount of liability- Mm ... when it comes to taking over somebody else's project. And that's something to consider.
Jessica : So one thing I keep thinking about while hearing this story and having read about it, is how do homeowners know if they're paying too much?
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica : Because most people build one home in their lifetime.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica : And, like, I am never going to build my own-
Mikki : Yeah ...
Jessica : home. So, like, I-
Mikki : Yeah ...
Jessica : will never know it. But, like, most people will [00:53:00] build-
Mikki : Yeah ...
Jessica : one. Yeah. So, like, how do you know?
Mikki : Yeah. And that's honestly, like, something I've been thinking about a lot, 'cause we talk about this a lot on when it comes to, like, pro- progress payments.
How do you know how to pay for what? And so, um- One of the things that I was like, "Okay, let's really give you guys something that you can actually use," and one of those things is never paying for future work. So- Mm ... the simplest rule for homeowners that you can follow is to never pay for work that hasn't been completed.
Not work that's scheduled, not work that's promised, only work that is actually completed. So for customers, you also want to do milestones when you... And we have talked about this a lot. That's what that progressive payment is. So you only pay for work that's been completed, and you pay for it in milestones.
So you pay after, like, so let's say you're, they have a foundation draw. You pay after the excavation is complete, the footings are complete, and the inspection has passed. For your framing draw, [00:54:00] you pay after the framing is complete, the roof is dried in, and the inspections are approved. For the mechanical draw, you pay after the plumbing rough-in is complete, the electrical rough-in is complete, the HVAC rough-in is complete, and those items has passed inspection.
For your drywall draw, you pay after the drywall is hung, that it is finished, it is ready for paint, it's been sanded. And the final draw you pay only after punch list is completed, the certificate of occupancy is issued, and the licenses the final lien waivers have all been received. And that's another thing that we really wanna touch on.
Lien waivers, especially when you're building a, a house from scratch. I deal with lien waivers all day long. All of my general contractors require us to submit lien waivers every single time we receive payment. And that lien waiver says that I have paid all of my trades and I have paid all of my materials.
And what a lien [00:55:00] waiver does is it prevents me as a subcontractor from going and saying, "Oh, I didn't get paid, so now I'm gonna put a lien on your property," because that's what... And, and every state is a little bit different. Mm. But in the state of North Carolina, if I don't get paid I can put a lien on your property, which means that you can't sell your house until that lien is paid.
So it prevents a homeowner from being able to get a loan on their property, from refinancing their mortgage- Oh, wow ... all kinds of things. It can be a really big deal. So when I sign a lien waiver, I'm saying, I, it's, it's an official document that I have to get notarized, and I submit it with each of my pay applications saying, "Hey, I've paid all of my bills."
And if the general contractor has those signed documents, I can't turn around and put a lien on the property. So that's something that we want you guys to explore and to get more familiar with, especially if you're building a house from scratch. Lien waivers are an absolute must. They're non-negotiable.
They have to be provided with every single draw that your contractor [00:56:00] submits so that you know that everybody has been paid, and even if they haven't been paid, you are covered on your end. That is then something that they have to take up with the general contractor, and that leaves your house, it prevents your house from getting hit with liens.
Jessica : So now if you have a construction loan, like they did for, like, their main home, would those lien waivers be done through the bank? Like, would they- Yes ... take care of it for you?
Mikki : Yes, yes. Okay. Which is, in part, why them asking for them to build the-
Jessica : Outside of the bank loan.
Mikki : Yes, out- It, it's all scheme-y and shady- Mm-hmm
and all kinds of things.
Jessica : So this is why you do it with the construction loans. This is why. The bank will do- And- ... all that work ...
Mikki : and as we've learned, you have to even be careful about what bank you use. Yes.
Jessica : But- Don't use one that the contractor recommends.
Mikki : Absolutely not. The other thing, too, that I wanna talk about is something called retainage, which I I have always in my career had my clients hold retainage on us, and it's, retainage is- Mm
a percentage of your contract, so it's a percentage of everything you bill. I, I, we, [00:57:00] for us, they hold 10%, so if I bill $100,000, they take 10,000, I get 90. And I will tell you that retainage is very motivating. So on one of the projects that we just finished, there was 400, well, $340,000 of retainage. You can bet your bottom dollar that when we were at, in the final end and those clients were asking for ridiculous things and I just wanted to be off that job so freaking bad-
I did the thing that they asked me to do even though it was ridiculous because I wanted my retainage. That, it's highly motivating that you're holding onto some of their money because you're do... And, and basically it took s- six months after the project was completed for us to get our retainage, which in my personal opinion is a little ridiculous.
But- Yeah, it's a little
Jessica : too long.
Mikki : Yeah, I was like, "Okay, buddy, I know you're, you know, g- you're getting a lot of,
Jessica : Interest ...
Mikki : in interest dollars- Yeah ... on my retainage."
Default_2026-06-02_1: I,
Jessica : I want the interest dollars. Right. Then you should start- Like- ... charging interest-
Mikki : Yes,
Jessica : I mean- ... if it's not returned- For real ... after 30 [00:58:00] days.
Mikki : I wish that was a thing.
So that's another thing, like, another tool in your tool belt that you can use to help you prevent this from happening to you, is m- having those lien waivers, making sure that you're holding retainage, making sure that you're not paying for work that hasn't been completed. That is really, really important.
Mm-hmm. Because listen, learning the hard way is really overrated. It really is, and we want you guys to make sure that when you go into a situation where you're dealing with contractors, where you're dealing with homeowners, well, you are the homeowner- ... when you're dealing with any kind of tradesperson coming into your house, that you have an idea of what are the things that you need to know, what are the things that you need to be addressing, what are the things you n- need to be requesting for?
So if you have had a situation where you have been screwed over by a home, a, a home service provider- ... we would love it for you to share that with us. You can go to chicksinconstruction.com. So just scroll down, write your story. Jess will change your name because she's a [00:59:00] polite lady. I will. And we will share your story like you were R- Roberta Flack, and we will sing your song out loud.
Jess, where can they find us on the socials?
Jessica : On LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram, it's @ChicksInConstruction Podcast. On TikTok, it's @ChicksInConstruction.
Mikki : All right, guys, check out the comments 'cause they always get really spicy. 90% of them are not subscribers, but listen, it's a good time to watch anyway. All right, we love you guys.
We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.