The Resistbot Podcast

Sanctuary cities and migrant justice with Jennifer Amuzie of Sanctuary DMV.

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βœŠπŸ€– Join us for our eleventh episode to learn about sanctuary cities and migrant justice with Jennifer Amuzie of Sanctuary DMV.

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Melanie Dione
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Season 2 of The Resistbot Podcast, hosted by Melanie Dione, features a different interview every week with an organizer working to create change in their community. We aim to elevate voices without a large platform, focusing on their stories. Our pod is brought to you by the same volunteers behind the Resistbot ( chatbot that's driven over 30 million pieces of correspondence to elected officials since 2017. If you haven't given it a try, pull out your phone and text the word "resist" to the number 50409 to get started. You can text officials from your Mayor to the President, check your voter registration, start your own campaigns, and much more!

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Melanie: Welcome to Resistbot Live. Hello, good afternoon. Welcome. It is December 12, 2021. I'm your moderator, Melanie Dione. And this is Resistbot Live, we are joined by a very special guest today, Jennifer Amuzie from Sanctuary DMV because this week we are talking about sanctuary cities. If this is your first time joining us, we're here every Sunday at 1pm. You can like us on Facebook, you can follow us on Twitter, you can follow us on YouTube and Twitch you can also subscribe to our podcast Resistbot dot Live and if you want to comment and join the conversation on Twitter, you can use our hashtag live botters! We know that sanctuary cities became a hot-button political issue especially during the last administration, if only for vilifying the words that appear on the Statue of Liberty. So what we're going to do today we're going to learn more about what sanctuary means, what's the function and how sanctuary cities function. So I'm going to start bringing up our panelists first, the wonderful Athena Fulay. Welcome, Athena.

Athena: Hi, everybody. Greetings. And how's it going Mel?

Melanie: Doing great doing great excited about this conversation, excited to talk to Jen today. How about you?

Athena: Good. I'm well, I'll be in the comments today, as usual. So I look forward to hearing folks perspective on the topic of sanctuary cities and Migrant Justice, as you mentioned, I feel it was very politicized kind of concept in that last administration. And yet, now with deportations still on the rise and at the levels that they've been at, what does it now mean to have these these titles for cities and what communities can do to actually lend some integrity to what that could be like? That's the thing because no matter who's the president, they're still going to be the work. So I'm excited to talk about that this week. We also have Christine Lu. Welcome, Christine.

Christine: Hello, happy Sunday.

Melanie: Happy Sunday. You always bring the calm West Coast vibe. I know. It's morning time for us. We appreciate you joining us.

Christine: Yes Good morning. Yes, no, I'm really looking forward to listening and learning as usual with this episode with an international lens. And so from my perspective, it's really interesting, because sanctuary cities, maybe they're called something else in different parts of the world. But there is this trend towards communities trying to get together to provide and extend resources where governments often fall short. And just from a humanitarian perspective, and it's really interesting to see because this is obviously not limited to the US. You're seeing this in Europe, and in a big way. And yet, so I'm looking forward to listening and I'm probably going to have some questions.

Melanie: Absolutely. Thank you. And last but not least, our blogger extraordinairee Susan Stutz.

Susan: Hello, Hi, ladies. How are we doing?

Melanie: Great. How are you?

Susan: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. You know, I'm I, I keep thinking about, you know, all these issues that, you know, when Biden came into office when he won the election, you know, we're like, Okay, done. We don't need anything else now. And this immigration issue and the sanctuary cities and the migrant protection protocols. You know, it doesn't matter who's in the White House, you know, immigration is a mess. The good news is, is Biden has the ability to undo some of the previous administration's actions. So we're looking at a petition this week, that really is addressed to President Biden and vice president Harris, and it's called fulfill immigration justice. The petition was written by a group called Doctors for camp closure. And it was started in November. We've got some signers to it and the call sign is P as in Peter, X as in xylophone,
K is in kitchen, Q is in quality, L as in Larry, C is in cat, that's the call sign for this. And so if you send the word sign, plus the call sign PXKQLC to resist by you can sign on to this petition. And basically it's asking President Biden to look at the immigration situation that we have here in this country, and the protocols that were put in place under the previous administration and asking him to exercise his executive arm power, and undo some of these terrible policies that we have in place with regard to immigration, it's also talking about the migrant protocol protections, which as we know, that's the subject of a lawsuit, the Federal Court has actually ordered Biden to restart that program. He had wanted to end it. And so the courts have said, Nope, you can keep right on going. And so that's a horrific policy. And it's just one of many that we have in our set of law books.

Melanie: The thing that always replays, in my mind is the saying the cruelty is the point. And there's always whether, regardless of who's in the White House, when we as citizens know better, it's our responsibility to push to push for more to push for better. And so that's why we're here. That's why we're here to do what we do. And that is why our guest does what she does. We are joined by Jennifer Amuzie, of sanctuary, DMV. Hi, Jennifer.

Jennifer: Hey, so happy to be joining you.

Melanie: Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you, of course number one for what you do. And for those that don't know, and you need to reintroduce yourself. Can you let us know a little bit about sanctuary DMV, and your role and a tidbit of how you got there?

Jennifer: Yeah, sure. I am a court organizer with sanctuary DMV sanctuary, DMV is an all volunteer group in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area that focuses on Migrant Justice and furthering immigrant rights in our area. And so I joined I think, like a lot of people in the Trump administration, right. So it was 2017. I just started this new job. And sanctuary, DMV was doing trainings on helping or accompanying folks to check-in at their like immigrant check-ins, whether that was, you know, to go and get like the check, you're still here, you're still at this job, you're still at this address that folks usually have to go through when they're moving through the process of like, the the civil immigration litigation process, right?

Athena: These are like these ice check ins, correct?

Jennifer: Yes, these are, these are the ice check-ins. Yeah, one of the things that happens at these ice check-ins under the Trump administration that had never happened before was that people were actually picked up at these check ins for detention. And so you would go in thinking that it was the usual you, we check-in, you're, you're still in the same place, you tick the box, you go home, you know, for another six months, and instead, you would show up and they would put you on a plane and send you across the country to be detained long term somewhere else, they would start a deportation process during that time. And so this is low-hanging fruit, right? Like these are people who are longtime members of the communities where they live all over the country, who are showing up the same way that they've always showed up for, you know, for years as they sort of move through this very, like arcane immigration labyrinth that we have. And I can say, you know, as, as an immigrant, I came to the United States as a baby, I was not naturalized until I was 19. That is how long it takes. And for a lot of people, there are a lot of places where you can sort of fall through the cracks where you can get in trouble where you can end up being deported. And so, for me, it was it was very close to my heart I got plugged in there, I went to my very first accompaniment and in that accompany meant the very first person in Sanctuary DMV sort of circle was pulled.

Melanie: And just to reiterate, these are people because a lot of times when we start having debates about you know or when when when people bring up what the problems are with immigrants. These are people who are literally following the process. They're in the process of doing what they're supposed to do these chapters are required of them and when they are at their required checkins these there were people who were being deported is that I just want to clarify that that's what was happening.

Jennifer: Yeah. I mean, like, I don't want to spend too much time going through like the Good Immigrant versus bad immigrant thing. But like, you know, these are folks who turn themselves in at the border or turn themselves in, when they came to the United States saying, I'm seeking asylum like, I want help. I have a story, something happened, you know, that caused me to flee the country where I'm from, and we said, like, we have a system for this, like, we'll take your story down, we'll have you know, a lawyer and a judge, like handle this. And then from there, we'll make a decision on whether we think that you that you face like a threat in your home country, right.

Melanie: And let me clarify, because I was I didn't want to speak necessarily on the on who does or who does not follow the process more, so much as I wanted to speak on the fact that this is a this is an ever moving goalposts. So you say you want one thing, but then I do this one thing, and then it's something else. So there's always going to be something else that allows you to exact whatever it is that that you think I think Susan may have had a follow up question on this.

Susan:I'm always interested in the legal component of these different processes. And you mentioned that you're a court volunteer, what does that mean?

Jennifer: Okay, so I'm not a court volunteer today. There are people who do that in the sanctuary, DMV, I am because of the way that I got involved. I'm mostly focused on like deportation, defense, and making sure that folks in my community are sort of advocated for in making the way that migrant communities can move through this country, like, especially DC where I live like a safest possible. You know, for me, I spent a lot of time focused on what it meant that DC had announced that we were a sanctuary city in 2010, people were still getting picked up by ice in 2017. Right?

Melanie: So can you go a little bit deeper into what it actually means to be considered a sanctuary city? Like we know, kind of there were people on both sides who have their whether it was positive or negative definitions or intent behind it. But what did being a sanctuary city actually mean? Especially when we're thinking about where it really became ramped up as an idea as a concept during the Trump administration?

Jennifer: Yeah, you know, it's pretty wild. Because, actually, it doesn't mean a lot of anything. For us. We thought that we were a sanctuary city that DC was a sanctuary city, until we realized that 100% of the people on the gang database were people of color that folks were getting stopped and frisked by the police and then held by the police until an ice van could come and pick them up people who were going to court, were getting picked up at the courthouse, there were all of these places where it actually was not safe to be an immigrant in DC, right like that made it so that it wasn't a sanctuary city. If you were a victim of a crime, you couldn't go and be a witness at your trial. If you were doing dumb stuff on the corner, you could end up being like, sent into exile basically, like these are things that we thought we'd taken care of like a long time ago, right? Because our city had announced that we were a sanctuary city, we actually worked really hard over through the Trump administration to push our DC council members, the mayor, the Commissioner of the Department of Corrections to sort of close those loopholes. But like, the truth is there are a lot of cities out there that say that the sanctuary cities, and ice is just like running rampant and doing the same thing that they would in a city where folks are probably declaring that they're Pro Ice and CBP. Right.

Melanie: So when, when a city announces that they are when they announced that they were a sanctuary city, what was that taken to mean? Because we like we know what, what they've done. But what was that taken to mean, especially from a city government standpoint? What was their unofficial even point of view of how their interaction with ice and organizations like that? What was that supposed to look like as a sanctuary city?

Jennifer: Right So what it's supposed to look like is that you are not going to be interacting with guys. I send these memos to jails that say like, Oh, hey, just checking. We're going to be in the area. Do you have anyone that you're going to be releasing from jail who is who's not documented? If you are a sanctuary city, well, first, it's totally optional, whether you're a sanctuary city or not, but if you're a sanctuary city like the proper answer is like none of your business F- you, right? And what happens instead is that what was happening in DC instead was the jail was responding to literally every request from ice. Oh, yeah, this person is undocumented, and they're going to be released on this day, the sanctuary values that was recently passed, that was 2019 was basically to push back against also to push back against the MPD, our local police force, from asking people their status, right people should be able to interact with the police without fear of being sent into the detention and deportation machine, right. And so what most sanctuary cities are saying when when they say that, but if you don't have, you know, a clear line of demarcation there and you aren't training your folks, there's nothing in law, but this like proclamation, then it's basically up to folks to kind of decide what it means every day on the job like to interact.

Melanie: That's totally understandable. I think we have Thank you. I think we have some questions. Athena.

Athena: Hi. Yes. Thanks for that background, Jen. I think it's important to know that in many ways, the promise of the sanctuary cities hasn't really become realized in the way that many communities were expecting it to be. But I'm just curious of all of the different causes, and things to lend yourself to and work towards. How did you find yourself getting involved in this work? And what motivates you to stay in it?

Jennifer: Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's personal to me, as an immigrant myself, as someone who loves many people who are a part of the undocumented community, making sure that the people I love are safe, and can grow and develop in the communities that they've chosen is extremely important to me, I'll say, like, a lot of things that happened under the Trump administration, right, start in one place and end up really being radicalized. You know, you start off with oh, this is kind of a bad system that needs to be fixed, and then end up with, you know, ice needs to be abolished. And actually everything that touches, ice and supports, it should also go under the microscope of whether it needs to be kept or not.

Melanie: Thank you for that, too. I think we have a question from Christine.

Christine: Yes. Hi. You know, as you're talking, Jen, I was wondering, we often hear the cruelty is the point, right? And if they say if Ice says it's they're just doing their job, per se, or whatever canned response they usually provide. I'm just wondering what motivates them to go into such coordinated detail that they would call up the Washington DC police department and find out exactly who is being released or not when these folks are going through the asylum process, or the city is, in fact, a sanctuary city? I'm just wondering what you feel the motivation is behind all that?

Jennifer: Yeah, there are so many things that we have seen over the years that sort of underscore that the cruelty is the point, right? Like, there's no reason for a person to have to be in detention in order to like go through the process of telling their story before the court, there's no reason that children should be separated from their families. There's no reason just to like bring it's current right that during a whole pandemic, that we're still using title 42 to deport almost 700,000 people, patients are being targeted for deportation on border, I think the there are ways that people can spin this to make it sound like they're just doing their jobs. But to be very clear, ice did not exist before 2003 We knew how to integrate people into American communities long before like this militarized force was on the scene. Anyone who's kind of like saying, Well, I don't know, maybe that's like, what their job is right? I just really want to push back against that and say, there are other ways to do this job.

Melanie: So when you doing what you do, I know you come across different, you know, people from different backgrounds, obviously different countries. But what is the primarily racial makeup of the people who are subjected to this deportations, especially these types of cruel, immediate deportations? And I think I know the answer, especially like when we've been talking about the Haitian migrant crisis, so I think I know the answer, but what is the racial background or makeup
Who this happens to primarily?

Jennifer: Yeah, I think we both know the answer, right? Like black migrants are probably like, you know, 7% of all of the migrants in in the United States and like a third of the people who are in detention or set for deportation. So there's there's this racialized elements there’s definitely a vulnerability set because of the intersection of identities of you know blackness and immigrant. Yeah. Saying the quiet part loud there Mel.

Melanie: Yeah, that's a phenomenal disparity when you think about less than 10% of the actual population. And over a third of that's positively breathtaking, but unsurprising. Unfortunately, did we have any audience comments, or questions? So far?

Athena: Not yet. No audience is listening in but no comments yet.

Melanie: Did you have a, I think you had a question, Susan.

Susan: I did. So one of the things that I was reading about as I was educating myself on this topic, where was the felons, not families, and Obama, we know Obama started that policy. And so my interpretation of what I'm seeing is that that's really not happening. Those are words on paper, but it's not really a policy in practice, where you know, the people being deported are criminals, and only criminals, as opposed to the mom who's just trying to take care of her family. And so what does that look like? If you know, for somebody who say they are convicted of some crime, but they're also the breadwinner there, the person tasked with taking care of the family? So you've got that collision between inside of that policy? What does that look like? Do you see that?

Jennifer: Yeah, I see that all the time. It's so easy to sort of draw this line, right like felons, not families, but felons are part of families, they're part of communities. They're deeply loved and relied upon people coming into the United States without papers, is a civil offense the first time but if you are deported, and you come back, it's a felony. That's, that's what felons not families is, like people trying to return to their families are felons, Barack Obama lawmakers, they know this, right? It's a story that they tell themselves so that they can sleep at night. The truth is that there's no way really to separate out felons versus deserving immigrants. In our current setup, the immigration system that we have is designed to criminalize.

Melanie: And one of the things when we're dealing with oppression on any level, one of the ways power has been getting it to work on any substantive level is to make it like this tiered structure, where the good ones get certain treatments. So if something happens, if something goes awry, then it's not because of the system. It's not a breakdown because of the system. This person was a bad immigrant, this person was a bad felon. And this is why this is how systems like this continue to be perpetuated. And we look at it like you said, we've this was something that really kicked off and was galvanized during the Trump administration, but ice been in existence since 2003. And if my math is correct, between 2003 and 2021, Barack Obama was president. So we can't just because someone is more aligned in our values or certain, you know, there are things that are more aligned with us, we still have to call out those failings, because these these systems still have failings. And this is our job as constituents, as citizens as neighbors as decent people to see that this is we are still title 42 was wrong and barbaric. In 2017, it's wrong and barbaric. In 2021, it doesn't matter who's in the White House.

Athena: I just wanted to add on something to that Mel this idea that so to Jen said, ice has been around since 2003. So when you're looking at how this carceral society that we live in, continues to evolve, continues to really focus on ways to redefine and to move that proverbial goalposts of what it means to be a good migrant versus a bad migrant. What and I know this is kind of crystal ball work for you, Jen, but what's next, like what's next for sanctuary cities? I read an article forwarded by another volunteer here at resistbot about how would the attack on women's rights sanctuary cities might evolve into opportunities for women to get safe reproductive health access. So what now we have a catholic Democrat in office, and who has platformed and spoken about ways of reaching out to migrant communities and fixings, the wrongs that were done in that last administration doesn't look like to be the case. So what is the field of this work looking like moving forward?

Jennifer: Yeah, I think there are definitely some wrongs that need to be graded. One of the things that is top of mind for me and for other folks who are in Sanctuary, DMV, and are looking at the ways that in the middle of like a huge public health crisis, where people cannot socially distance, we're still putting people in detention facilities, which are basically local prisons, that we're still watching the way that even if, for example, a police officer can't physically ask someone for their papers and hold them in DC that there's an entire network now being built of surveillance technology that's doing that work for them. There is sort of this push now for municipalities to remove themselves from this, like detention infrastructure. Right. And for municipalities to push against the amount of funding that their police get that they would spend on, you know, building this, like pan-opticon. Right for migrants, and black and brown communities more generally. Yeah. I mean, there are lots of places that we can go. And I definitely see reproductive justice is another piece that's that's very like salient to the work of Migrant Justice, right. We know that there was a time in Georgia, where it was surfaced that women and people with birthing equipment in their bodies were being forcibly sterilized without their consent in detention facilities. So this is also something that's like very, very top of mind and part of the work that needs to be done.

Melanie:When we look at the issues that migrant people face. So many of them are sort of ground zeroes for our own rights, we can look at it for reproductive rights, when we look at it from a standpoint of justice and how police funding or defunding is pretty much inextricably linked to the crisis face by by migrants. So it's not when we try to separate all of these issues, we get disappointed you it's very hard to understand fully one without seeing how it's linked to the next. And that's why the ideologies we support matter, when we're voting for people who vote who you vote for does matter. It's not they're all just as bad. It's also you have to realize who you can work with who you can pressure, who lines up with your values, which is, which is one of the reasons there are certain people who have no shame, there are certain people in barrel who have no shame, you can't work with them, you need to start targeting the people who can be shamed. When we get to what's next, how can we as neighbors as citizens as friends of sanctuary, DMV, how can we support?

Jennifer: Yeah, I mean, right now, we have a couple of GoFundMe going on that you can find on sanctuary You can always like click through there and send to the GoFundMe. But we also have a Venmo sanctuary DMV, or it's at sanctuary DMV, right. Like I said before, we're working really hard to make sure that people who are in detention are released, sometimes the only thing that's keeping folks from being released back into their communities is bond, which is I mean, frankly, gross. And, and frustrating this GoFundMe is for that helping out, get home for the holidays more broadly, if you want to give to the bitly which is bit dot ly Yep, slash liberation fund, that also make sure that like, as many people as possible are sort of removed from this, like detention center, I'll just say that, you know, there are lots of people who are listening in from all over the country, and there are people in your communities in every community, I can say this like, pretty confidently who have been in detention and then were sent back to the community because of liberation funds like this. And so want to lift that up. If there's something like that in your community. You'll probably find it through Detention Watch Network, which has like a nationwide set of organizations, just like SDMV that are doing this work to free migrants on the ground.

Melanie: Thank you so much. And Susan, can you reiterate the petition that we currently have outstanding?

Susan: Sure, sure. It's a petition. It's called the Fufill immigration justice. And it's directed to President Biden and vice president Harris. And it's asking Biden to exercise his executive muscle some and tackle some of these policies that were put in place by the previous administration. And, you know, he campaigned on immigration. And that's an issue that he we want him to continue to work towards. So the call sign for this petition is PXKQLC. And so if you send that call sign with the word sign 250409, you'll be able to sign onto this petition. And you'll also be able to encourage your friends and families to sign on to the petition as well. You can also send resist, and you can write your own petition. If this petition doesn't speak to the heart of what your thought process is, you can always start your own petition as well.

Melanie: Thanks so much, Susan. And that's that's the thing because it's not getting Trump out of office. You know, it's I'm a 90s girl. So I remember Rock the Vote, and I remember all the catchy, catchy slogans, but it still takes work. It still takes organizers like Jen, it still takes activists like Athena, it takes everyone voting is not a magic bullet, it still takes muscle in the will and the will to be a decent person. So I want to thank everyone I want to thank you, especially first Jen. Where can we find you let us know where we can find you and your organizations. And that means whatever you want it to meet.

Jennifer: Right. I am, I am at J C Amuzie On Twitter and Facebook. I am pretty like locked down though. So you gotta like ask first but sanctuary DMV at sanctuary DMV on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, as well as at Free Them all VA which is on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.

Melanie: Thank you so much. I envy you with the lockdown Twitter, I get it don't don't start none won't be none. Because, you know, I, I'm very familiar with how that interaction can be.
So I want to give my panelists thank you again, this isn't this is our our third episode, actually, that we've had regarding immigration, we had immigration101, we talked about asylum-seeking. And here we are talking about sanctuary. And that's just the proof that this is a continuing conversation. So that so we hope that you'll be back to join us. For those of you who are listening in, you can subscribe to us at resistbot dot live and listen to the first two episodes that we had about immigration and asylum. They were amazing. We had a wonderful one of our guests was a young woman named Cece, who shared her story of asylum-seeking and how long the process took, like what it took to get there and how long that process took. I remember you said that how you were you came in as a baby, but you weren't naturalized until you were 19. And it's so it's just something it is a long and arduous process. So we appreciate you going through that in the work and the work that you're doing. So, thank you so much. And we have Christine last thoughts Christine.

Christine: Yeah, you know, just listening. And I was thinking, going back to my other question, what economic motivations are there for, you know, Ice or CBB to be, quote, unquote, doing their job. And a lot of times you find that's tied to unions, it's tied to resources that they want. So they create, you know, issues like this for themselves. And, you know, that's just kind of what I'm left with. It's just very disheartening. So thank you for enlightening us today, Jen.

MelanieL Thanks so much, Christine. And Susan,

Susan: Hi. Um, so one of the things that we try to do here at resist bot is put an article up on our page with regard to whatever our topic is for that given week. So if nothing else, it's a bit of a primer on whatever we're talking about. So check out our news tab on our webpage resist dot, bot just something that I'm thinking about you know, I think about this during the holiday season, December is national drunk and drugged driving Prevention Month, and one person during the course of this podcast, one person will have died. 28 people die every day as a result of people driving under the influence and it's completely preventable. So have a designated driver. If you're going to be drinking, please, please, please have a designated driver for yourself and for your friends and family and so that you come home every day.

Melanie: Yeah. And then you think about like we live now in the age of ride-sharing and everything else. There's just, there's there's no reason to get behind the wheel of a car drunk. There's no reason to jeopardize anyone else's life. So no, thank you for that, Susan. And Athena.

Athena: A couple of things have been on my mind this week one. Well, first, thank you, Jan, for wrapping up neatly, this this concept of sanctuary. So I appreciate that. Mel and the team is taking the time to really explore these issues in thorough ways. But one, I would just like to call out the tragedy that's happening in Kentucky right now the over 70 people who died, the candle factory workers who are suffering to what Susan saying it's the holidays. So please reach out and help those communities as you're able second. It's the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe. And given that we were talking about sanctuaries today, I know that deportation and ice are really affecting LatinX communities as well in tremendous ways. So thinking about them, I'd like to do a plug for CASA, I think they do some great work as well in terms of supporting people through not only check-ins, but the migration immigration processes. So that's a great group. And last, something very close to my heart, is this week on Tuesday is actually the it's the ninth anniversary of the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, much like immigration, being a part of the fabric I feel that is American society and culture. I think guns, in many ways continues to be a topic and an issue that continues to plague and tear this country apart in a lot of ways. So organizations related to gun violence work and prevention victims families. Check them out. The Newtown Action Alliance is a group that was set up by parents of Sandy Hook, every town Giffords, Moms Demand Action. A lot of these names you've probably heard of in your general news feeds. But now's again, around the holidays, time and nine years, this kids would have been in high school at this point, if not out of high school already. So the work continues. And let's just keep remembering all these important anniversaries as we continue on.

Melanie: Thank you so much, Athena, and we appreciate you today and always, for thanks so much for joining. To continue on what Athena mentioned regarding the tragedy in Kentucky, there are 70 people so far who have passed away we are will be sharing relief aid mutual aid links going forward, you can follow us on our channels Resistbot Live, and also the resist spot. Twitter accounts are going to be great resources. For those links. Go Fund me and other mutual aid organizations and organizers who are doing the work. And just as a sideline of that compassion is not a partisan issue. When when you're dealing with loss of life, there's been a lot of commentary about what Rand Paul has done what Rand Paul has, has voted against, and he should definitely be taken to task for that. But right now, there are people who need aid, there are people who need help, there are people who have lost their families, it's not a matter of going low or going high. It's a matter of prioritizing and being a decent person. And we need to be thoughtful of that and support those people who have lost their families. This is this is not the time for the nitpicking. This is the time where we're doing the work. So as you see organizations or people please if you're able, whether it's signal boosting or actually going in your pocket and reaching out that way, it would be greatly appreciated. So once again, that has been our show. We will be back next week at 1pm on Sunday, it will be our final show of the year, we are talking about the history of petitioning and protesting and why we have a nice little show and why we do this every week. So we are excited to invite all of you to join us and you can learn more about us at resist dot bot, whether you want to volunteer donate or start a petition of your own if you want to know how you can be a guest on resistbot it starts with the work. It starts with authoring a petition or sharing that petition and having a background and we have a intake form that you can fill out in the event that you're interested in being a guest and a voice on resistbot live. We're going to have an amazing 2022 But we still have one more so to get through for 2021. It's going to be a great show, and I cannot wait for you to join us. This show will be up once again on a Tuesday. And we look forward to you sharing and talking to us through our hashtag our new hashtag live botters so until next week take care.

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