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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Brian Mavis (00:01.428)
All right, Travis, good to see you today. Today we are going to talk about the sobering impact that being in foster care has on educational outcomes. So like, well, why are kids in foster care having such bad outcomes in schooling and then what resources there are? And today I'm excited because we have an expert on this topic and somebody who's beaten all the odds. Dr. Dinesh Keding was in foster care, but today,
Travis (00:01.791)
All right, Travis, good to see you today. You too.
Travis (00:13.567)
So like, well, why?
Travis (00:19.039)
schooling and then what resources there are and today I'm excited because we have an expert on this topic and somebody who's beaten all the odds Dr. Danisha Keating was in foster care but today has her PhD so I'm gonna read her official introduction and bio but then she's got a big personality so we're gonna let her first share a little bit more about who she is and where she's coming from.
Brian Mavis (00:31.22)
has her PhD. So I'm going to read her official introduction and bio, but then she's got a big personality. So we're going to let her speak for herself and share a little bit more about who she is and where she's coming from. So Dr. Danesha Keating is a CEO, international motivational speaker and international author of From Foster to PhD, Letters from a Suitcase.
Travis (00:47.359)
So Dr. Danisha Keating is a CEO, international motivational speaker and international author of From Foster to PhD, Letters from a Suitcase. Dr. Keating believes in the power of our stories and being able to share them to help others get out of their fires. As a research psychologist, Dr. Keating has a background in psychology, trauma -informed training practices, and best practices for working with foster youth on their educational goals.
Brian Mavis (00:58.9)
Dr. Keating believes in the power of our stories and being able to share them to help others get out of their fires. As a research psychologist, Dr. Keating has a background in psychology, trauma -informed training and practices, and best practices for working with foster youth on their educational goals. As a former foster youth and guardian of five of her siblings, she firmly believes that no matter where we come from, we all have a goal we'd like to obtain and we all need help from people around us.
Travis (01:16.991)
As a former foster youth and guardian of five of her siblings, she firmly believes that no matter where we come from, we all have a goal we'd like to obtain and we all need help from people around us. So, Denisha, Dr. Deening, great to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. I feel after hearing that, I'm already just inspired. I feel like I just have to stand up and like clap already. But.
Brian Mavis (01:29.268)
So, Dinesha, Dr. Geeding, great to have you here.
Danisha Keating (01:31.758)
Thank you so much for having me.
Brian Mavis (01:42.132)
I know.
Danisha Keating (01:42.99)
I'm like, who is it? Who's going to stand up?
Travis (01:45.239)
Who is this? Who's gonna stand up? So, coincidentally, Travis' son graduated high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And formerly in foster care. Yeah, adopted. So like literally as you know, this timing and thinking of kind of the research and our conversation, I just sat even watching us going, wow, it's a whole nother level of just, yeah, wow. Just awe, awe of overcoming. People don't understand that there is a...
Brian Mavis (01:47.22)
So, so coincidentally, Travis's son graduated from high school today.
Danisha Keating (01:53.11)
Congratulations! Yes!
Brian Mavis (01:55.284)
former fraud for youth.
Danisha Keating (02:02.958)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (02:07.854)
Yeah. Well, people don't understand that there is a ton of barriers even for kids who have stability after experience with foster care. So if you get adopted or you are with your family, it's not something that you're sitting back going like, yeah, I'm good now. I had no educational hurdles or barriers to overcome. It is lifelong. Because if your education at any point,
Travis (02:15.007)
Barriers even for kids who have stability after experience with foster care So if you get adopted or you are with your family, it's not something that you're sitting back going like yeah, I'm good now I had no educational hurdles or barriers to overcome it is lifelong because if your education at any point was interrupted or it was you had to leave to go to court or caseworkers were coming in like there's a
Danisha Keating (02:33.582)
was interrupted or it was you had to leave to go to court or case workers were coming in. Like there's that that is interrupting their ability to stay in and be focused. But then you add trauma onto that. And it doesn't matter if you were two years old when it happened or when you were 13 years old, that trauma still impacts you and affects you daily. And I think what's crazy is that most foster youth who are taken into foster care, they're put in the school the very next day.
Travis (02:40.927)
that that's interrupting their ability to stay in and be focused. But then you add trauma onto that. And it doesn't matter if you were two years old when it happened or when you were 13 years old, that trauma still impacts you and affects you daily. And I think what's crazy is that most foster youth who are taken into foster care, they're put in the school the very next day. And it's like, okay, go still function. And you're like, how is this okay?
Danisha Keating (03:02.414)
And it's like, okay, go, go still function. And you're like, how, how is this? Okay. How do w how do we do that? Why do we do that? Why can't we give time for processing and, and ability to say, hold on, let's give some grace here because there are so many teachers out there that I've, I've personally talked to foster youth who said like, yeah, my teacher was like, yeah, get over yourself. It happens. And he's like,
Brian Mavis (03:04.404)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (03:08.127)
How do we do that? Why do we do that? Why can't we give time for processing and an ability to say, hold on, let's give some grace here. Because there are so many teachers out there that I've personally talked to foster youth who said like, yeah, my teacher was like, yeah, get over yourself. It happens. And he's like, okay. And I'm like, yeah, I had teachers like that too. Professors who just didn't care. They don't think foster care is a hurdle. They're just like, get over yourself and go. That is not.
Danisha Keating (03:26.222)
Okay. And I'm like, yeah, I had, I had teachers like that too, professors who just didn't care. They don't think foster care is a hurdle. They're just like, get over yourself and go. That is not, it's not a good foundation for us to have emotionally and then say, go be successful in school. It's, it's hard, but it's like for your son to be able to accomplish that. It is a massive deal regardless of foster care or not. Like graduation rates are low across the board, but even worse for foster youth.
Travis (03:36.959)
It's not a good foundation for us to have emotionally and then say, they'll be successful in school. It's hard, but it's like for your son to be able to accomplish that. It is a massive deal regardless of foster care or not. Like graduation rates are low across the board, but even worse for foster youth. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, we've already begun the topic and conversations is great. If we want to press pause for a second, already the passion coming out. It's great. Anything else you want to share about yourself, your family, and then.
Danisha Keating (03:56.582)
Let's jump in. Yep.
Travis (04:05.407)
You're a motivational speaker, so I'm curious, how does a motivational speaker find motivation? Where are you finding yours lately?
Danisha Keating (04:11.054)
Gosh, sometimes I'm like, am I the right person for this job? It is hard because I think just for me as a person, I've always tried to battle that internal motivation that I lacked. And I remember moments of sitting in my car being like, this is going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it. And like pep talking myself. But that was because I saw other people doing that. They're like, you're your worst enemy sometimes. And you have to tell yourself that you can go and do and be.
Travis (04:26.591)
sitting in my car being like, this is gonna be worth it, it's gonna be worth it, and like talking myself. But that was because I saw other people doing that. They're like, you're your worst enemy sometimes, and you have to tell yourself that you can go and do and be. But I had no idea my journey was gonna be to a motivational speaker. I was, my goal was being a professor, because I was like, that's what I want, which I get to do. But then now I get to do all the extra stuff on top. So some of the things like I have, I have a toddler, she's almost two.
Danisha Keating (04:39.502)
But I had no idea my journey was gonna be to a motivational speaker I was my goal was being professor because I was like that's what I want which I get to do But then now I get to do all the extra stuff on top. So some of the things like I have I have a toddler She's almost two. I still have my youngest brother with me. He's 21 married do lots of stuff for her Church things like that love doing worship or singing songs. Those are always fun things. I love reading
Travis (04:55.359)
I still have my youngest brother with me. He's 21. I'm married, do lots of stuff for church, things like that. Love doing worship or singing songs. Those are always fun things. I love reading. But for motivation, I'm always listening to other people because it's, you know, even the best motivational speaker out there, the funniest comedian or the best actor, actress, they have to learn from somebody. And that's where we dig into other people's energy sometimes to be like, okay, what can I get to?
Danisha Keating (05:07.086)
But for motivation, I'm always listening to other people because it's, you know, even the best motivational speaker out there, the funniest comedian or the best actor, actress, they have to learn from somebody. And that's where we dig into other people's energy sometimes to be like, okay, what can I get to get hyped up again to go back out and be? So I listened to a lot of different people. And sometimes it's just little things like watching my favorite Disney movie or watching like a love story where it's just like,
Travis (05:24.703)
get hyped up again to go back out and be. So I listen to a lot of different people and sometimes it's just little things like watching my favorite Disney movie or watching like a love story where it's just like, you watch it and you're like, that's inspiration in a different way. There's like levels to being inspired, I think. And creativity is what really inspires motivation. But one of the things I have always struggled with is finding that motivation when you're on burnout is the hardest.
Danisha Keating (05:36.398)
You watch it and you're like, that's inspiration in a different way. There's like levels to being inspired, I think. And creativity is what really inspires motivation. But one of the things I've always struggled with is finding that motivation when you're on burnout is the hardest. And that's when we tap into other resources of somebody else saying, hey, I've had a hard life on this and I battled this, but here's, you got to keep going. And someone said,
Travis (05:54.591)
And that's when we tap into other resources as somebody else saying, hey, I've had a hard life on this and I battled this, but here's, you gotta keep going. And someone said, stop looking for the motivation, because it's not gonna come. You have to be consistent. Your consistency is what's gonna get you the longevity. Your motivation will come later. And that's when I started sitting back going.
Danisha Keating (06:04.782)
Stop looking for the motivation, because it's not going to come. You have to be consistent. Your consistency is what's going to get you the longevity. Your motivation will come later. And that's when I started sitting back going, OK. I've been trying to find this motivation and not working out or not studying or not doing what I needed to do, because motivation comes later. But the consistency is what gets you to that motivation down the line.
Travis (06:18.239)
I've been trying to find this motivation and not, you know, working out or not studying or not doing what I needed to do because motivation comes later. But the consistency is what gets you to that motivation down the line. So, Dinesha, I'm fascinated by the title of your book and I want more people to pick it up. Both the title and the subtitle. So you got from Fawcett to PhD and then the subtitle is Letters from a Suitcase. So.
Brian Mavis (06:32.596)
So, Dinesha, I'm fascinated by the title of your book and I want more people to pick it up. Both the title and the subtitle. So you got from Foster to PhD and then the subtitle is Letters from a Suitcase. So why don't you share with our audience what your book is, what they're about and what they could get out of it.
Danisha Keating (06:41.55)
Yes.
Danisha Keating (06:46.83)
Mm.
Travis (06:47.551)
Why don't you share with our audience what your book is, what they're about, and what they could get out of it. So the title in itself is one of those, it was kind of hard to figure out from what to put down on it, but I was like, my journey is from this to that. And so that's where the From Foster to PhD came in. But the letters from a suitcase is literally where I pulled my journal letters from was my suitcases because I had lived.
Danisha Keating (06:50.894)
Yes.
Danisha Keating (06:55.854)
So the title in itself is one of those, it was kind of hard to figure out from what to put down on it. But I was like, my journey is from this to that. And so that's where the From Foster to PhD came in. But the letters from a suitcase is literally where I pulled my journal letters from was my suitcases because I had lived from home to home. I went through 33 different addresses from 18 to 24 years old. And I lived in boxes and suitcases from my car.
Brian Mavis (07:13.716)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (07:16.703)
from home to home. I went through 33 different addresses from 18 to 24 years old. And I lived in boxes and suitcases from my car. So when I started unpacking, I had like journals, loose letters, books that I had for school that I wrote into the back, like frustrations or whatever. I would pull them from the suitcases that I had been living from and I started seeing them and I was like, wow, and it kind of hit like that title is probably like 19 or 20 years old, where I had letters from a suitcase.
Brian Mavis (07:21.108)
Wow.
Danisha Keating (07:23.854)
So when I started unpacking, I had like journals, loose letters, books that I had for school that I wrote into the back, like frustrations or whatever. I would pull them from the suitcases that I had been living from and I started seeing them and I was like, wow. And it kind of hit like that title was probably like 19 or 20 years old where I had letters from a suitcase where I was like, I want to write a book, but what would it be? And it was like, I really liked that. But it wasn't until I was...
Travis (07:46.495)
where I was like, I want to write a book, but what would it be? And it was like, I really like that. But it wasn't until I was 31, where I was like, these two things go together, because I'm literally pulling my letters from these suitcases that I lived from for so long. And then literally, 28 years old was the first time I unpacked every box in my home. Before I would not, I would leave boxes in there. So I was as I was pulling material to put in this book from past writings to myself.
Danisha Keating (07:51.566)
31 where I was like these two things go together because I'm literally pulling my letters from these suitcases that I lived from for so long. And then literally 28 years old was the first time I unpacked every box in my home. Before I would not, I would leave boxes in there. So I was, as I was pulling material to put in this book from past writings to myself, I was pulling them out and being like, my gosh, I didn't even remember that this was here.
Brian Mavis (08:06.868)
Mm.
Travis (08:16.127)
I was pulling them out and being like, my gosh, I didn't even remember that this was here. And that the whole focus was trying to not just shine light on the abuse details, because I pulled a lot of that out, because I said, I don't want people to know. First off, I don't want people to know that information. But secondly, I don't want people to focus just on my trauma. I want people to focus on the emotions of what it's like to go through education, especially as a foster youth. I wanted them to see what that really felt like. Even.
Danisha Keating (08:19.95)
and that the whole focus was trying to not just shine light on the abuse details, because I pulled a lot of that out, because I said I don't want people to know. First off, I don't want people to know that information. But secondly, I don't want people to focus just on my trauma. I want people to focus on the emotions of what it's like to go through education, especially as a foster youth. I wanted them to see what that really felt like, even parts of raising my siblings, not that it was.
Brian Mavis (08:39.06)
Hmm.
Travis (08:44.127)
parts of like raising my siblings, not that it was the situation in itself to be like, wow, that was really hard, but the emotion that happens when your band breaks down and you have no money to fix it and you got to get to work and get the kids to school. And it's like, I wanted people to understand like there's an emotion behind what we feel. And if we can see that we can understand why it's such a big deal when we feel like we're going to fail or not get to our finish line as a foster youth or person just trying to get to their goal that they haven't been able to.
Danisha Keating (08:46.094)
the situation in itself to be like, wow, that was really hard. But the emotion that happens when your van breaks down and you have no money to fix it and you got to get to work and get the kids to school. And it's like, I wanted people to understand, like there's an emotion behind what we feel. And if we could see that we can understand why it's such a big deal when we feel like we're going to fail or not get to our finish line as a foster youth or person just trying to get to their goal that they haven't been able to. Cause a lot of people will.
Travis (09:13.759)
Because a lot of people will, at that point and currently, will hear details of my story and go, Denisha, you know, you went through a lot. Like, how much of that did you cause? Like, well, not a lot of it. Okay, but thank you for the question. But it was the, I wanted people to really see, like, what was I struggling with emotionally during those times? And not speaking it from a place of hindsight or wisdom, but more of like in it with me, because I think that is more important.
Danisha Keating (09:14.606)
at that point and currently will hear details of my story and go, Denisha, you know, you went through a lot. Like how much of that did you cause? Like, well, not a lot of it. Okay. But thank you for the question. but it was the, I wanted people to really see like, what was I struggling with emotionally during those times and not speaking it from a place of hindsight or wisdom, but more of like in it with me.
Brian Mavis (09:25.14)
Thank you.
Danisha Keating (09:41.582)
because I think that is more important is when I have this information at 34 years old now, I didn't have that same information at 18, 19. So the mistakes that I made would not have been different because I didn't have that information. So they, anyone can buy it on Amazon and it's there for the buying.
Travis (09:43.583)
is when I have this information at 34 years old now, I didn't have that same information at 18, 19. So the mistakes that I made would not have been different because I didn't have that information. So anyone can buy it on Amazon and it's there for the buying. So who, when you were writing it, who were you imagining you were writing it to? Who's the audience? And when it's all said and done, when they close the last page,
Brian Mavis (09:54.388)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Brian Mavis (10:01.396)
So when you were writing it, who were you imagining you were writing it to? Who's the audience? And when it's all sent out and when they close the last page, what are you hoping that they're going to come away with?
Travis (10:12.991)
What are you hoping that they're going to come away with? So I was first writing it for foster youth themselves to be like, I want to motivate you to understand that I felt these things too. Because when I come in to speak, a lot of the times people are like, so you just didn't give up? And these are former foster youth or foster youth currently. And they're like, so did you know that you would get to this spot? And I'm like, I had no idea. I had 300 different educational plans I mentally shifted through. I sat down multiple times being like, I hope this is worth it.
Danisha Keating (10:16.558)
So I was first writing it for foster youth themselves to be like, I want to motivate you to understand that I felt these things too. Because when I come in to speak, a lot of the times people are like, so you just didn't give up? And these are former foster youth or foster youth currently. And they're like, so did you know that you would get to this spot? And I'm like, I had no idea. I had 300 different educational plans. I mentally shifted through. I sat down multiple times being like, I hope this is worth it.
I hope that this is the right path. I don't know if I'm choosing the right thing. So I wanted foster youth to be able to look at this and go, okay, if I have a dream, if I have a goal, it's not gonna be easy. Already know that, but it is doable. But then I wanted others who were in the education realm to stop just saying, hey, foster youth can just do it. They just need to apply themselves. I wanted them to see behind the mirror and say like,
Travis (10:43.171)
I don't know if I'm choosing the right thing. So I wanted foster youth to be able to look at this and go, okay, if I have a dream, if I have a goal, it's not gonna be easy. Already know that, but it is doable. But then I wanted others who were in the education realm to stop just saying, hey, foster youth can just do it. They just need to apply themselves. I wanted them to see behind the mirror and say like, I can see the person standing here where I see the hope and potential. But when you open that door to say, okay, there is this person behind.
Danisha Keating (11:05.678)
I can see the person standing here where I see the hope and potential. But when you open that door to say, okay, there is this person behind this door who is not feeling that they're going to make it because they're not there yet. They haven't grown in that way. Educationally, emotionally, mentally, spiritually or financially, we have different tools in our belts when we're not in that season. So I wanted people to understand like there's a lot of emotion that when a foster youth comes in and they're trying to get cleared for financial aid for college.
Travis (11:12.703)
this door who is not feeling that they're gonna make it because they're not there yet they haven't grown in that way educationally emotionally mentally you know spiritually or financially we have different tools in our belt when we're not in that season so I wanted people to understand like there's a lot of emotion that when a foster youth comes in and they're trying to get cleared for financial aid for college and you say you need three documents that I cannot obtain as a foster youth I want people to know why there's an emotion
Danisha Keating (11:33.358)
and you say you need three documents that I cannot obtain as a foster youth, I want people to know why there's an emotion behind it and a response of the spiral that tends to happen. Why do they freak out going, I can't get there. I'm not going to make it now. I'm not going to get my degree. There's so much more wrapped into this that it's not just an inner child that's coming out. It is legitimately like my future hangs in the balance and if I mess up.
Travis (11:40.575)
and a response of the spiral that tends to happen. Why do they freak out going, I can't get there. I'm not going to make it now. I'm not going to get my degree. There's so much more wrapped into this that it's not just an inner child that's coming out. It is legitimately like my future hangs in the balance. And if I mess up, none of this comes into play because everything has messed up in my life. Nothing has gone well. So then they get to that last page. And it's the question, like I actually.
Danisha Keating (11:59.406)
none of this comes into play because everything has messed up in my life. Nothing has gone well. So then they get to that last page and it's the question like I actually debated going and putting this in, but I'm glad I did where I'm at graduation and I'm like, my God, am I going to make it? Like, is this going to happen? Like, did I do the right thing? And am I going the right direction and still fighting imposter syndrome years later? Because that's still a feeling that comes up.
Travis (12:10.015)
Debated going and putting this in but I'm glad I did where I'm at graduation and I'm like, my god Am I gonna make it like? Did I do the right thing and am I going the right direction and still fighting imposter syndrome? Years later
Brian Mavis (12:23.668)
Hmm.
Danisha Keating (12:27.374)
where it's, you know, when rejection happens, it still hurts. When someone says, hey, we're going to bring you in and now you're not going to do our speaking event, you still go, what did I do? That's normal feelings. And my hope is that when someone reads through this, foster youth or not, if they have thought with those emotions internally, they can say, you know what, I'm going to still try. Because if she can do it and she battles the same thought process that I do and she's still there.
Travis (12:35.551)
What did I do? That's normal feelings. And my hope is that when someone reads through this, foster youth or not, if they have fought with those emotions internally, they can say, you know what, I'm gonna still try. Because if she can do it and she battles the same thought process that I do, and she's still there, I can too. And I can still work through my thought process. And it's not me, it doesn't make you weak. It doesn't make you bad. It doesn't mean you're not successful. Like the most successful people in the world, they battle with emotions.
Brian Mavis (12:52.5)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (12:53.774)
I can too, and I can still work through my thought process and it's not me. It doesn't make you weak. It doesn't make you bad. It doesn't mean you're not successful. Like the most successful people in the world, they battle with emotions and I, and I'm hoping that people get that from this.
Travis (13:04.895)
And I'm hoping that people get that from this. That's interesting. So much of what you hear about the challenges for educational achievement, so much of it is around just kind of the fact of there being disruptions and stuff. And I love how you're exploring the emotional side of it. And it's needed because I think that that's the side that does not get shown a lot is it's again, most of the stories you will read about.
Brian Mavis (13:07.7)
Hmm. That's interesting. So much of what you hear about the challenges for educational achievement. So much of it is around just kind of the fact of there being disruptions and stuff. And I love how you're exploring the emotional side of it.
Danisha Keating (13:23.054)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, and it's needed because I think that that's the side that does not get shown a lot is it's again most of the stories you will read about foster youth. It's usually the trauma and the details of the trauma that they explored and those are good to know because we need to know them. We need to be moved into action, but I think sometimes what tends to happen is it's so much information that people walk away going, it's hopeless. I have nothing.
Travis (13:34.879)
foster youth, it's usually the trauma and the details of the trauma that they explored. And those are good to know, because we need to know that we need to be moved into action. But I think sometimes what tends to happen is it's so much information that people walk away going, it's hopeless. I have nothing. But if we understood the emotion behind what that action does, it's not about the person who did it to us, or the situation itself, it's about what we feel that that's where we can step in and say, hey,
Danisha Keating (13:50.67)
But if we understood the emotion behind what that action does, it's not about the person who did it to us or the situation itself, it's about what we feel, that's where we can step in and say, hey, as someone working with someone who comes from a hard past, I can look at you and say, hey, you know, Brian, I understand that you're freaking out right now. We are gonna find a solution together. You are not on your own. Because the whole point of like an emotional response is you usually feel by yourself.
Travis (14:04.191)
As someone working with someone who comes from a hard past, I can look at you and say, hey, you know, Brian, I understand that you're freaking out right now. We are going to find a solution together if you are not on your own. Because the whole point of like an emotional response is you usually feel by yourself. And that way if someone is working with someone from a hard past, they can come in and go, hey, these are the three things that are needed and I'm going to help walk you through this. You're helping that person learn that you're trustworthy.
Brian Mavis (14:14.804)
Hmm.
Danisha Keating (14:19.47)
And that way if someone is working with someone from a hard past, they can come in and go, hey, these are the three things that are needed and I'm gonna help walk you through this. You're helping that person learn that you're trustworthy and not just be like, well, go figure it out. It's easy. I can do it. You can do it too. Cause that's not the case with a lot of young adults who have been removed from family and they don't have legal documents that they do need.
Travis (14:32.959)
and not just be like, we'll go figure it out. It's easy. I can do it. You can do it too, because that's not the case with a lot of young adults who have been removed from family and they don't have legal documents that they do need. Wow. Well, let's pivot a little bit into back the transitory nature of foster placements and that sort of movement. And let's, this is kind of a, so some stats that kind of.
Brian Mavis (14:44.532)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (15:01.919)
showcase this for people that aren't aware of just how staggering this is. One fairly recent national study showed that kids in foster care typically move schools at least once or twice a year. Each move then results in a loss of four to six months of academic progress. One third of all those who age out around 23 ,000 annually will have seen as many five or six school moves. So then the fallout of those things are that just over 50 % of former foster youth graduate high school compared to their peers at around 90%.
which you already brought up, Tanisha. And then the other thing is less than 8 % of former foster youth receive a post -secondary degree, again, compared to about 50 % of the national public of their peers. So, I guess this is where this just seems like such an intimidating sort of thing to unpack. I really want to kind of hone in on what you think are some insights here, because as many foster parents know this firsthand, they know, you know, Jimmy came in, he's so far behind.
Danisha Keating (15:32.142)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (15:42.766)
Right.
Travis (16:01.567)
It just seems so overwhelming when we're already dealing with the trauma of just our daily existence in the house and trying to get through that stuff. Then on top of that, to almost try to catch up these education gaps for many probably seem, I mean, that's just almost an impossible goal. And yet that's not necessarily is the case. So what, what are kind of your thoughts around like, you know, obviously the support is a piece here, but anything around this, this current existence with this problem?
for kids in care and being bossed around.
Danisha Keating (16:33.198)
Yeah. That when you say four to six months of, of not having something when they are moved, they lose four to six months of school. I think that's such a, like that breaks my heart because it's, it's a hundred percent. It just sucks. There's no other word for it. It just sucks because you, you tell a kid, okay, you're going to be moved. You're going to go to a new school or, or maybe even continue at the same school that you're at, but you're going to have an interruption.
Travis (16:39.039)
not having something when they are moved. They lose four to six months of school. I think that's such a like that breaks my heart because it's it's 100 percent it just sucks. There's no throw card for it. It just sucks because you you tell a kid okay you're going to be moved you're going to go to a new school or or maybe even continue at the same school that you're at but you're going to have an interruption but it's going to impact you four to six months from now. Then there is this pressure of well now you have to catch up.
Danisha Keating (17:00.846)
but it's going to impact you four to six months from now. Then there is this pressure of, well, now you have to catch up. You need to apply yourself. You need to behave well. You need to go in and pass this quiz with a gap of four to six months not existing of education. And I sit back in that and I looked. I had a teacher who told me this. And I was in high school. And I was crying because I'm like, man, I'm not smart enough. I'm never going to get math.
Travis (17:08.255)
you need to apply yourself, you need to behave well, you need to go in and pass this quiz with a gap of four to six months not existing of education. And that, like I sit back in that and I looked, I had a teacher who told me this and I was really, I was in high school and I was like crying because I'm like, man, I'm not smart enough, I'm never gonna get math, I just can't do this. And she's like, Denisha, you missed an entire semester of your freshman year.
Danisha Keating (17:30.062)
I just can't do this. And she's like, Denisha, you missed an entire semester of your freshman year. Your parents did not get you to school in middle school or elementary school. All of your high school education is built on the middle school and elementary school that you did not have. You were never going to catch up. And I was like, so what's the point? And she goes, I'm not telling you to quit. What I'm telling you is stop trying to catch up. That's not going to happen.
Travis (17:37.087)
Your parents did not get you to school in middle school or elementary school. All of your high school education is built on the middle school and elementary school that you did not have. You were never gonna catch up. And I was like, so what's the point? And she goes, I'm not telling you to quit. What I'm telling you is stop trying to catch up. That's not gonna happen. What you're gonna do is you're gonna fill in the gaps of what you need to know with this current information.
Danisha Keating (17:58.958)
What you're going to do is you're going to fill in the gaps of what you need to know with this current information, but you're not trying to get back the years of school, the eight years of schooling you did not get. You are simply going to focus on what do I need for this lesson for today to pass this quiz? And I sat back and I like had a moment of realization, like I'm never going to get to catch up. OK, but that was a release for me.
Travis (18:05.919)
but you're not trying to get back the years of school, the eight years of schooling you did not get. You're simply gonna focus on what do I need for this lesson for today to pass this quiz? And I sat back and I like had a moment of realization like I'm never gonna get to catch up. Okay, but that was a release for me because I was beating myself up before that. But now I'm like, okay, I just need to learn about what I need to learn today. I don't need to learn the last eight years and try to.
Danisha Keating (18:27.022)
because I was beating myself up before that. But now I'm like, OK, I just need to learn about what I need to learn today. I don't need to learn the last eight years and try to catch up the last eight years. Am I going to pass trigonometry? Nope. Not going to happen. Can I try to pass elementary algebra if I take a couple of classes over and over again and get the tutoring that I need? It really comes down to when you recognize there's a gap, you're not saying, well, all is lost.
Brian Mavis (18:27.188)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (18:55.374)
But what you're saying is I'm not, I need to stop putting the pressure on a foster youth to say, now you need to catch up for what you missed because you're never going to catch up. But what you can do is say, okay, what can we teach you today to be successful in the class that you're currently in? What can we teach you just to help you with this lesson? And if we have time, we'll go and start working backwards. But we need to kind of sit in that to say like, when a foster youth graduates high school and they piece together their education and say, okay, now you have a diploma, go on.
Travis (19:04.447)
But what you can do is say, okay, what can we teach you today to be successful in the class that you're currently in? What can we teach you just to help you with this lesson? And if we have time, we'll go and start working backwards. But we need to kind of sit in that to say like, when a foster youth graduates high school and they piece together their education and say, okay, now you have a diploma, go on, go to college somehow, you're still having these holes in the education. When you're able to sit back and just say, you know what, you're gonna have a hole.
Danisha Keating (19:24.878)
go to college somehow, you're still having these holes in the education. When you're able to sit back and just say, you know what, you're gonna have a hole. You're gonna do justice for that person better because you're not saying you're stupid. You can't get this. You're not gonna learn. It's my dyslexia. I used to blame my dyslexia for everything. And it was my team, my professors like, girl, this is beyond dyslexia. I was like, what are you talking about? And he's like, you have holes in your education. Look at the quiz that you took. And he goes, you're not stupid, dude.
Travis (19:34.495)
you're gonna do justice for that person better because you're not saying you're stupid. You can't get this. You're not gonna learn. It's my dyslexia. I used to blame my dyslexia for everything. And it was my professor's like, girl, this is beyond dyslexia. I was like, what are you talking about? And he's like, you have holes in your education. Look at the quiz that you took. And he goes, you're not stupid, dude. And he said it just like that. I was like, whoa, your professor's saying dude. And he just said, he's like, you just never had this.
Danisha Keating (19:54.51)
And he said it just like that. And I was like, wow, you're a professor saying dude. And he just said, he's like, you just never had this. And so if we recognize that with other foster youth and we start letting them know, like, hey, we're going to help fill in the gap of what you're missing. We will never have you be able to catch up. You're not going to, because when you think catch up, I think of like, what I was trying to do was, okay, give me my brother's eighth grade. I had several brothers and sister and a sister that were younger.
Travis (20:03.519)
And so we recognize that with other foster youth and we start letting them know like, hey, we're going to help fill in the gap of what you're missing. We will never have you be able to catch up. You're not going to, because when you think catch up, I think of like, what, what I was trying to do was, okay, give me my brother's eighth grade. I have several brothers and sister and a sister that were younger. I would sit with them as they were doing their elementary, middle school math and say, okay, walk me through your packets. Let's let me absorb this. And my brain was not able to retain all that information.
Danisha Keating (20:22.158)
I would sit with them as they were doing their elementary and middle school math and say, okay, walk me through your packets. Let me absorb this. And my brain was not able to retain all that information. It can't retain all that information. But what I could do is say, okay, brother, I need you to show me how you did this problem, because I have a similar problem in my math class. Can you show me how to do this?
Travis (20:34.335)
it can't retain all that information. But what I could do is say, okay, brother, I need you to show me how you did this problem, because I have a similar problem in my math class. Can you show me how to do this? And then over time, I'm able to start filling in the gap with that knowledge, but it's not going to be a retained knowledge going forward. So when we work with foster youth, being able to say like, hey, I'm going to help you fill in those gaps.
Danisha Keating (20:45.326)
And then over time, I'm able to start filling in the gap with that knowledge, but it's not going to be a retained knowledge going forward. So when we work with foster youth, being able to say like, hey, I'm going to help you fill in those gaps. You're working on this. Don't try to catch up from last year that you lost, but let's look at this lesson right here. Let's show you what you need to have. Let's piece it together for now. And then later we'll start working on it more. A lot of foster youth have told me like, I hate school.
Travis (20:58.591)
you're working on this, don't try to catch up from last year that you lost, but let's look at this lesson right here, let's show you what you need to have, let's piece it together for now, and then later we'll start working on it more. A lot of foster youth have told me like, I hate school, I hate school because I'm not smart enough, I can't learn this. If you looked at my high school GPA, you'll see all of my core classes for math, English, and science, they were like Ds and Cs, but all of my academic curricular activities,
Danisha Keating (21:12.43)
I hate school because I'm not smart enough. I can't learn this. If you looked at my, my high school GPA, you'll see all of my core classes for, you know, math, English and science. They were like D's and C's, but all of my academic curricular activities, all of the fun stuff were A's. That was the only reason I went to school was choir and dance and like, and, and, and color guard, but I had to take math and English and science.
Travis (21:28.383)
all of the fun stuff were A's. That was the only reason I went to school was choir and dance and color guard. But I had to take math and English and science. But you see that A's kind of help keep me in because I have to have an A and a 2 .0 to be able to stay in those classes for choir and color guard because that was a requirement for my teachers. But then you have these math and science stuff and I'm like, wow, I thought I did better because...
Danisha Keating (21:40.782)
But you see that the A's kind of help keep me in because I have to have an A and a 2 .0 to be able to stay in those classes for choir and color grade. Cause that was a requirement for my teachers. But then you have these math and science stuff. And I'm like, wow, I thought I did better because I was loving what I was learning, but I stopped putting that pressure on catching up. I was never going to catch up. I'm still never going to catch up. Like I still have a hole in my education and I have a PhD and people point it out all the time.
Travis (21:57.055)
I was loving what I was learning, but I stopped putting that pressure on catching up. I was never going to catch up. I'm still never going to catch up. I still have a hole in my education and I have a PhD and people pointed out all the time. They're like, look at your spelling error. You have a PhD. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be more academically professional. And I'm like, I'm going to have misspellings. I do have dyslexia. It messes with me all the time, but I'm going to have things where I say it wrong. I'm going to remember.
Danisha Keating (22:10.606)
They're like, look at your spelling error. you have a PhD. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be more academically professional. And I'm like, I'm going to have misspellings. I do have dyslexia. It messes with me all the time. But I'm going to have things where I say it wrong. I'm going to remember statistics wrong. But guess what? I'm not going to go home and beat myself up because I accidentally said something incorrect. I'm going to correct myself. But I'm not going to beat myself up like somebody else would.
Travis (22:26.559)
statistics wrong but guess what I'm not gonna go home and beat myself up because I accidentally said something incorrect I'm gonna correct myself but I'm not gonna beat myself up like somebody else would. In addition to the holes in your education it seemed like from my experience as a foster dad that kids would come into our lives and they do have these gaps but they also had like just
Brian Mavis (22:37.172)
Yeah, Dinesh, in addition to the holes in your education, it seemed like from my experience as a foster dad, that kids would come into our lives and they do have these gaps, but they also had like just you could see that they had so much more on their mind of like, where am I? I'm in survival mode. And they just like, I don't have space to learn this.
academic thing when I'm trying to make sure, am I safe? Am I going to be fed? And so there's that additional challenge that most youth don't think of at all. They assume all those good things that are going to happen to them. We'll talk about that a little bit.
Danisha Keating (23:07.694)
Yes, yes
Danisha Keating (23:13.358)
Yes.
Danisha Keating (23:17.742)
Yes.
Travis (23:23.679)
good things that are going to happen to them. Talk about that a little bit. I think that's super important to talk about too because for me when I looked at my file, I went into foster care on a Saturday and I didn't go to school until Monday. They had me enrolled in another school. How old were you when that happened? She was three days before my 16th birthday. Okay.
Danisha Keating (23:23.886)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's super important to talk about too, because it's like for me, when I looked at kind of my file, I went into foster care on a Saturday and I didn't go to school until Monday the next, like they had me enrolled in another school. And then I was, it was three days before my 16th birthday.
Brian Mavis (23:42.996)
How old were you when that happened?
Danisha Keating (23:48.43)
so my younger siblings were a lot younger. They were from six, four years old to, so we were from four to 15, all of us. And, they were expected to be back in school that following Monday. And it was like, okay, nothing happened. And then you don't get to talk about it. So, but then it's like, here's a quiz. Here's this. And I remember, I just remember sitting there and, when it happened, it was October. And so we were prepping for some state testing and I was prepping for midterms.
Travis (23:49.023)
So my younger siblings were a lot younger. They were from six, four years old to, so we were from four to 15, all of us. And they were expected to be back in school the following Monday. And it was like, okay, nothing happened. And then you don't get to talk about it. But then it's like, here's a quiz, here's this. And I remember, I just remember sitting there and when it happened, it was October. And so we were prepping for some state testing and I was prepping for midterms. And I remember like,
Brian Mavis (23:56.98)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (24:16.206)
And I remember like my teacher handing me my midterm and I just looked at her and I just broke down crying. And I was just like, I don't have my book. I don't have my backpack. I don't have my pencils. I didn't study. And she's like, well, why didn't you study? And I'm like, how do I explain this to you?
Travis (24:18.591)
my teacher handed me my midterm. And I just looked at her and I just broke down crying. And I was just like, I don't have my book. I don't have my backpack. I don't have my pencils. I didn't study. And she's like, well, why didn't you study? And I'm like, how do I explain this to you? How do I help you? How do you understand where I'm at? And that doesn't leave my teacher room to help me.
Danisha Keating (24:36.75)
How do I help you? How do I help you understand where I'm at? And that doesn't leave my teacher room to help me, but I'm being given this test and be like, okay, go. Like remember, and I had completely spaced. She goes, girl, we've been doing this all semester. And I looked at her and she just, she kind of took the paper away and I was like, no, no, I'll do it. And she's like, let's talk over lunch. And I'm like, okay. And I went back and she's like, what's going on? So I told her and she's like.
Brian Mavis (24:36.916)
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Travis (24:44.863)
But I'm being given this test and be like, OK, go. Remember, and I had completely spaced. She goes, girl, we've been doing this all semester. And I looked at her, and she just kind of took the paper away. And I was like, no, no, I'll do it. And she's like, let's talk over lunch. And I'm like, OK. And I went back. And she said, what's going on? So I told her, and she's like, your brain is not going to be able to do two things at once. And I was just like, no, I can take it. It's fine. And she goes, I know you know this. But let's wait a minute.
Danisha Keating (25:03.246)
your brain is not going to be able to do two things at once. And I was just like, no, I can take it. It's fine. And she goes, I know you know this, but let's wait a minute. So you can go and study and get some breathing room and then you can come and take it when you're ready. And she let me take it like a week later, but it was that didn't, that didn't happen after that. Everyone else was like, that was two weeks ago. That was a month ago. That was a year ago, but that still follows you. Cause I was still having my, my CPS worker come in every single week.
Brian Mavis (25:06.516)
Right.
Travis (25:13.343)
So you can go and study and get some breathing room and then you can come and take it when you're ready. And she let me take it like a week later. But it was that didn't that didn't happen after that. Everyone else was like that was two weeks ago. That was a month ago. That was a year ago. But that still follows you because I was still having my my CBS work come in every single week. I was failing the class because he kept taking me out of the same class every single time. Every time it was quiz day. And I told him like please don't come in on Wednesdays. I have a quiz that day. Wednesdays quiz day.
Danisha Keating (25:32.11)
I was failing a class because he kept taking me out of the same class every single time, every time it was quiz day. And I told him like, please don't come in on Wednesdays. I have a quiz that day. Wednesday's quiz day. He did not care. So you ask someone to go in and be like, just, and I want people to just kind of imagine this as like, when you have been in the worst moment of your life, where was your brain functionality? What was your thought process? Were you able to work well?
Were you able to have relationships with people? Were you able to even say, this is what I'm feeling and thinking? Now do that to a kid. Do that to a teenager and ask, what can I do as someone who's walking with someone in that? And the only answer is, wait, take their lead. Let them have space. They're processing a heavy moment. And in my worst moments, I've sat back and I'm like,
Brian Mavis (26:09.332)
Right, that's powerful. Yeah.
Travis (26:11.967)
and ask like, what can I do as someone who's walking with someone in that? And the only answer is wait, take their lead, let them have space. They're processing a heavy moment. And in my worst moments, I've sat back and I'm like, I don't think of anything else. My work suffers, my relationships suffer, I pull back, I isolate, I sit back in that. And then over time, I process.
Danisha Keating (26:28.814)
I don't think of anything else. My work suffers. My relationships suffer. I pull back. I isolate. I sit back in that. And then over time, I process. But when I was 15, I'm like, no wonder why I wanted to yell and scream and punch things and be in control of how I was the big kid, tough kid walking around school, because it was the safe place that I could act and react and not always get pulled to the principal's office.
Travis (26:40.799)
But when I was 15, I was no longer why I wanted to yell and scream and punch things and be in control of how I was, you know, the big kid, tough kid walking around school because it was the safe place that I could act and react and not always get pulled to the principal's office. I got pulled there multiple times, but some of my teachers were like, girl, you're going through a heck of a time. And they understood maybe some of my teachers like, girl, this isn't you.
Danisha Keating (26:59.086)
I got pulled there multiple times, but some of my teachers are like, girl, you're going through a heck of a time. And they understood. And they'd even, you know, some of my teachers like, girl, this isn't you go, go walk around, come back. And when you're ready to be you for a second, come back and we'll talk. And I'd always come back in and I'm like, I'm really sorry. I don't understand. But every teacher who did that understood there's this thing called trauma and it's the delayed, like you, there's a grieving process that we have to go through.
Brian Mavis (26:59.156)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (27:08.767)
Go walk around, come back, and when you're ready to be you for a second, come back and we'll talk. And I'd always come back in and I'm like, I'm really sorry, I don't understand. But every teacher who did that understood there's this thing called trauma, and it's delayed. Like, there's a grieving process that we have to go through. And I think that's what we miss with us youth is it's like, it's trauma. It's like, no, there's a grieving process. Our brain automatically will go through being like, I'm angry today. I'm sad today. I'm depressed today. I'm happy today. I'm OK. I'm accepting it. I'm not.
Danisha Keating (27:25.262)
And I think that's what we miss with foster youth is it's like, it's trauma. It's like, no, there's a grieving process. Our brain automatically will go through being like, I'm angry today. I'm sad today. I'm depressed today. I'm happy today. I'm okay. I'm accepting it. I'm not. And that happens in our brain is that it just flips around.
Travis (27:38.335)
And that happens in our brain is that it just flips around. So, Denisha, if you could just give like one piece of advice to teachers and to foster parents to say, I wish you would know or do this so that would benefit the child in their educational pursuit. I think this needs to be a case by case basis.
Brian Mavis (27:42.868)
So, Denisha, if you could just give one piece of advice to teachers and to foster parents to say, I wish you would know or do this so that it would benefit the child in their educational pursuit.
Danisha Keating (28:02.798)
I think this needs to be a case by case basis. There are so many different situations that can happen. We're all so different in how we handle things. Some of us need to go on walks with people while others of us need to go walks by ourselves. I had a friend and it kind of shocked me to my core because I was like, my GPA suffered, but he was valedictorian. And he went through the foster care system and then was homeless and he was still valedictorian. His grades slipped and nobody asked a question.
Brian Mavis (28:06.612)
Okay.
Travis (28:06.943)
There are so many different situations that can happen. We're all so different in how we handle things. Some of us need to go on walks with people while others of us need to go walks by ourselves. I had a friend and he kind of shoved me to my core because I was like, my GPA suffered, but he was valedictorian. And he went through the lost care system and then was homeless. And he was still valedictorian. His grades slipped and nobody asked a question. At all. Nobody knew he was homeless.
Brian Mavis (28:13.236)
Bye for now.
Danisha Keating (28:33.23)
at all. Nobody knew he was homeless. Nobody stopped and said, hey, are you doing okay? Your grades are slipping. What's going on? And I think that that we look too much for the grades to tell us that something is going on, that we just entirely miss the person. So if we look at every foster youth that we have the honor of walking with and just say, what is your need?
Travis (28:36.447)
Nobody stopped and said, hey, are you doing okay? Your grades are slipping. What's going on? And I think that that we look too much for the grades to tell us that something's going on, that we just entirely miss the person. So if we look at every foster youth that we have the honor of walking with, and just say, what is your need? What can I do for you? Do you want space? Do you want me to walk with you? Do you want me to shut up and stop talking? What do you want and need?
Danisha Keating (28:56.046)
What can I do for you? Do you want space? Do you want me to walk with you? Do you want me to shut up and stop talking? What do you want and need? We would do better for that individual because we're all so different. Like what works for me doesn't work for my brother. What works for me doesn't work for my friend. But for me, like I always pull back first and then like I engage when I want to. But other people are like they need people close. And then there are some people who are like, let them just be alone, but don't.
Brian Mavis (28:56.148)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (29:05.663)
we would do better for that individual because we're all so different. Like what works for me doesn't work for my brother. What works for me doesn't work for my friend. But for me, like I always pull back first and then like I engage when I want to. But other people are like they need people close. And then there are some people who are like, let them just be alone, but don't ever like just walk away completely from any of us. Like we are just, we all have different ways of processing what we're going through. So yeah, be a student.
Danisha Keating (29:24.814)
ever just walk away completely from any of us. We all have different ways of processing what we're going through.
Brian Mavis (29:32.404)
Mm -hmm. So yeah, be a student of the youth, not just of the subject. And then...
Travis (29:35.391)
of the youth. Of the student, yeah, the student. Yeah, not just of the, not of just the subject. Yeah, and that's hard. That's, it requires a lot to walk, to do life with someone. I think, you know, there's the academic side is important, but what's more important -er, I can say that because I'm a doctor. Free pass. We need community, and that is more important, like, than any GPA or any grade or any lesson that we're going to learn. We need, we need to know some.
Danisha Keating (29:36.206)
of the student. Yeah, of the student.
Danisha Keating (29:41.582)
Yeah, and that's hard. It requires a lot to walk, to do life with someone. I think, you know, there's the academic side is important, but what's more important -er, I can say that because I'm a doctor, important -er is that we need community and that is more important like than any GPA or any grade or any lesson that we're going to learn. We need to know someone's in our community.
Brian Mavis (29:53.844)
Hahaha
Brian Mavis (30:05.876)
Yeah.
Travis (30:06.271)
Yeah. I mean, so that's really helpful to case by case. And then you've kind of brought us into the compassion side, looking at the deeper things, what matters sometimes much more beyond academics, but kind of back to the last thing around this, as far as like with parents and advocacy, I mean, obviously bolstering support in academics, whether it's tutoring and this is where, you know, communities wrapping around foster families is vital and significant. I mean, that could be one huge game changer, but is there a
I guess what I'm asking is, is there a posture foster parents should be taking where it is to look and advocate more about at times? Again, I'm generalizing here, but hold on. Jimmy isn't even caught up. Let's not look to pass him necessarily. Is it more to try to slow things down with teachers and things? What does advocacy look like? I think it's really important to first talk to the foster youth themselves.
Danisha Keating (30:55.166)
Yeah. I think it's really important to first talk to the foster youth themselves because you holding me back is seen to me as I'm not good enough. And I always had said like, I can get there, I can get there, I can get there. It was never going to happen. But there are moments that I just needed someone to look at me and say, what do you need?
Travis (31:06.303)
Because you holding me back is seen to me as I'm not good enough. And I always had said, like, I can get there, I can get there, I can get there. It was never going to happen. But there are moments that I just needed someone to look at me and say, what do you need? What do you want? Do you want another chance at this class? Do you want to just kind of write it off and be done with it?
Danisha Keating (31:24.142)
What do you want? Do you want another chance at this class? Do you want to just kind of write it off and be done with it? I think one of the things that's kind of powerful, and I hate homework, but I appreciate homework too, because that's where I do a lot of my learning. But there are times that foster parents will be like, no homework at all. And it's not a benefit to that child. But then when you look at the case by case and you're like, actually this one kid, complete meltdowns.
Travis (31:30.879)
I think one of the things that's kind of powerful and I hate homework, but I appreciate homework too because that's what I do a lot of my learning, but there are times that foster parents will be like no homework at all and it's not a benefit to that child. But then when you look at the case by case and you're like actually this one kid, complete meltdowns, beating themselves up, saying that they're, just saying really ugly things to themselves because that's what they are believing about themselves. Is that sometimes it's to go.
Brian Mavis (31:43.924)
Hmm.
Danisha Keating (31:50.382)
beating themselves up, saying that they're just saying really ugly things to themselves because that's what they are believing about themselves is that sometimes it's to go, hey, teacher, can we do something else for this person? Because this is actually doing the complete opposite of helping this person learn. It is actually making them hate learning. And I think the biggest thing that we need to focus on is not just focusing on, well, you need to have this education. What is the value behind me getting it? What is the value?
Travis (31:59.359)
Hey teacher, can we do something else for this person? Because this is actually doing the complete opposite of helping this person learn. It is actually making them hate learning. And I think the biggest thing that we need to focus on is not just focusing on, well, you need to have this education. What is the value behind me getting it? What is the point of having education if I'm actually not learning anything? My goal as a parent is to teach every young adult that I'm working with.
Danisha Keating (32:18.702)
point of having education if I'm actually not learning anything. My goal as a parent is to teach every young adult that I'm working with that their story is from, if it's a foster youth from foster to blank. What is their goal? I meet with a lot of foster parents who literally will be like, education is your only route. College is your only route. If you don't go to college, you're not doing your self justice. You're failing yourself. You're, you're too smart for that. And.
Travis (32:27.807)
that their story is from, if it's a foster youth, from foster to blank. What is their goal? I meet with a lot of foster parents who literally will be like, education is your only route, college is your only route. If you don't go to college, you're not doing your self justice, you're failing yourself, you're too smart for that. And I ask them, what is their hobby? What do they like to do? And it always comes back, it's like, well, they like construction, they like.
Brian Mavis (32:33.524)
Mm.
Danisha Keating (32:47.406)
I ask them, like, what is their hobby? What do they like to do? And it always comes back. It's like, well, they like construction. They like art. They like singing. They like this. And it's like, why don't you put all your forces behind that and watch them soar? Find what they're passionate about because that'll help. Like with what I had was color guard and choir. That actually helped me motivate me to, well, I need to do better on this tutoring is in this it's a need. But when we know.
Brian Mavis (32:53.3)
Yeah.
Danisha Keating (33:13.966)
that tutoring, I always assumed tutoring was actually for people who were stupid or couldn't get it, or they just weren't, you know, this is what everyone around me was saying, like, you have to go to tutoring. You're just get tutoring. I didn't know my valedictorian at high school was going to tutoring until he told me and I was like bawling and I'm like, I don't want to go to tutoring. I don't want people to think I can't do it. And he's like, Denisha, do you know I've been in tutoring my whole life? And I'm like, what? He goes, how do you think I have straight A's? And I was like, cause you're smart. He goes, I, it's because I go to tutoring.
Travis (33:20.607)
You know, this is what everyone around me was saying like you have to go to tutoring. You're just good tutoring I didn't know my valedictorian at high school was going to tutoring until he told me and I was like balling I don't want to go to tutoring. I don't want people think I can't do it and he's like Tanisha Do you know I've been in tutoring my whole life? And I'm like what he goes, how do you think I have straight A's? And I was like because you're smart He goes I it's because I go to tutoring and I was like what? Wow, there's a stigma around it and if someone else can come in and say
Danisha Keating (33:43.982)
And I was like, what? Like, wow, there's a stigma around it. And if someone else can come in and say, did you know that I had to have tutoring? Did you know I needed counseling too? Did you know that I needed someone to vouch for me and speak on my behalf? But also the other side of it is bringing that foster youth forward and saying, how can I show you how to advocate for yourself? So they're from foster blank story is so important, but the biggest issue that we have right now with foster youth is people go, well, they don't advocate for themselves in college.
Travis (33:50.399)
Did you know that I had to have tutoring? Did you know I needed counseling too? Did you know that I needed someone to vouch for me and speak on my behalf? But also the other side of it is bringing that foster youth forward and saying, how can I show you how to advocate for yourself? So their foster blank story is so important, but the biggest issue that we have right now with foster youth is people go, well, they don't advocate for themselves in college because they never learned how.
Brian Mavis (34:05.973)
That's it.
Danisha Keating (34:13.71)
because they never learned how. But teach them and show them that you're advocating for them in those rooms. Because when they sit with you and see that, you go, no, no, no, teacher. We don't do the homework because there are a lot of, it's an emotional thing for us at home. And it's not because they can't do it, but it's hard. This stuff is not easy. I'm crying. I'm having a hard time. I want to make sure that I know how to do this with my student, but how am I supposed to do that? And then they see, they go,
Travis (34:16.255)
But teach them and show them that you're advocating for them in those rooms. Because when they sit with you and see that, you go, no, no, no, teacher. We don't do the homework because there are a lot of, it's an emotional thing for us at home. And it's not because they can't do it, but it's hard. This stuff is not easy. I'm crying. I'm having a hard time. I wanna make sure that I know how to do this with my students, but how am I supposed to do that? And then they see, they go, mom and dad don't really know.
Danisha Keating (34:42.798)
Mom and dad don't really know, but, okay, I can learn. And they will start teaching you because then they're like, okay, you're having a hard time with this too. But now I'm learning how to advocate for myself to not in a bully way, but in a way that's just like, Hey, I want to learn how to speak for myself and then let them have the reins.
Travis (34:45.659)
But, I can learn and they will start teaching you because then they're like, okay, you're having a hard time with this too. But now I'm learning how to advocate for myself to not in a bully way, but in a way that's just like, hey, I want to learn how to speak for myself. And then let them have the reins. Yeah, gosh, I want to highlight a few things there. You see there's some gold nuggets. One of the things I heard you say is for every foster youth, make sure that there's a
Brian Mavis (35:02.516)
Yeah, gosh, I want to highlight a few things there. You see there's some gold nuggets that you, one of the things I heard you say is for every foster youth, make sure that there's a, from foster to blank, like the title of your book and what is the blank that they need to fill in. And the other thing that was connected to that was,
Danisha Keating (35:05.998)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (35:15.295)
from foster to blank, like the title of your book, and what is the blank that they need to fill in?
Danisha Keating (35:17.902)
Yes.
Travis (35:24.159)
And the other thing that was connected to that was find out what they're passionate about. And then maybe that's what fills in their blank. You also said that we need to take away the stigma and the shame from asking for help and tutoring. And I want to make sure that that's highlighted. And then the other thing that I was like, that's good too, is don't just advocate for the child. Teach them how to advocate for themselves.
Brian Mavis (35:29.14)
find out what they're passionate about. And then maybe that's what fills in their blank. You also said that we need to take away the stigma and the shame from asking for help and tutoring. And I wanna make sure that that's highlighted. And then the other thing that I was like, that's good too is don't just advocate for the child. Teach them how to advocate for themselves. That's so good.
Danisha Keating (35:40.462)
Yes.
Danisha Keating (35:53.198)
Yeah. Well, and it's funny because I used to advocate in a very aggressive way. It's really bad because that's what I have learned from my parents. And when I say aggressive, it was just like, give me your manager and over the littlest things. When I started walking with other people and learning from other people, I learned advocacy was actually saying, Hey, I'm not understanding this as the adult in the room. Can, can someone show me how to do it so that I can show them how to do it?
Travis (35:53.407)
That's so good. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because I used to advocate in a very aggressive way. It's really bad. Because that's what I have learned from my parents. And when I say aggressive, it was just like, give me your manager. When I started walking with other people and learning from other people, I learned advocacy was actually saying, hey, I'm not understanding this as the adult in the room. Can someone show me how to do it so that I can show them how to do it?
Brian Mavis (36:21.78)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (36:22.126)
and then bringing them along. And my little sister said something to me that I went, huh, guilty, but also, okay, we need to learn this as a parent. She said, what I don't like is walking in a room and feeling like everybody knows my ish before I had a time to tell them. And I sat back and I went, okay, what do you want me to share? And she goes, I would actually like to do the sharing. And I said, okay.
Travis (36:22.399)
And then bringing them along and my little sister said something to me that I went Guilty but also okay. We need to learn this as a parent She said what I don't like is walking in a room and feeling like everybody knows my ish Before I had a time to tell them And I sat back and I went, okay What do you want me to share and she goes I would actually like to do the sharing and I said, okay
Brian Mavis (36:48.66)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (36:49.998)
So I would ask, do you want me to go with you? Okay, your grade is slipping. Have you talked to your teacher about what you could do? Yeah, how did that go? Well, I didn't know how to say this, this, and this. Send an email. I can do that? Yeah, go ahead and send an email. You know, ask about this or this. It's like, we're having a hard time in this group project. This person's not doing what they're...
Travis (36:50.431)
So I would ask, do you want me to go with you? Okay, your grade is something, have you talked to your teacher about what you could do? Yeah, how did that go? Well, I didn't know how to say this, this, and this. Send an email. I can do that, yeah, go ahead and send an email. Ask about this or this. It's like, we're having a hard time in this group project. This person's not doing what they're...
Danisha Keating (37:13.07)
saying they're gonna do what I don't want our grades to slip, so we're just gonna pick up the stuff that this person didn't do. And I said, just go ahead and let the teacher know, and that that's what's going on, and ask like, what can we do to bring this person into our group and feel comfortable? Because now what it looks like you're doing is helping that other person try to be a part of your group versus this is a problem person. And she went and advocated for herself, and her grade went from an F to an A because this group project just looked...
Travis (37:13.439)
saying they're gonna do what I don't want our grades to slip, so we're just gonna pick up the stuff that this person didn't do, and I said, just go ahead and let the teacher know, and that that's what's going on, and ask, like, what can we do to bring this person into our group and feel comfortable? Because now what it looks like you're doing is helping that other person try to be a part of your group versus this is a problem person. And she...
Hmm.
Danisha Keating (37:40.014)
teacher was being told one thing by one student and then the group was saying something different. But she was like, wow, that felt really good that I got to go in and do this versus you doing it for me. And as they get older, like I started doing this with them in middle school because I was like, they need to, they need to be an adult who can advocate for themselves and call their doctor or their bank and be like, Hey, this isn't okay. Something's going on here versus being a people pleaser and being like,
No, we just have to accept that what happens to us. Like, no, no, no. You get to do that. But if we don't bring them along to show them that we also have a hard time speaking and advocating, that's harder. And there were times that my sister's like, you're really good at practicing, and then you freeze when you're in the moment. And I was like, because it's scary. And she's like, yeah, I struggle with that, too. And my brother, same thing. And he was like, that's crazy that you, of all people, struggle. And I was like.
Travis (38:05.151)
No, we just have to accept that what happens to us like no no no like you get to you get to do that But if we don't bring them along to show them that we also have a hard time speaking and advocating That that's harder and I there were times that my sister's like you're really good at practicing And then you freeze when you're in the moment and I was like cuz it's scary and she's like, yeah I struggle with that too and my brother's saying thingy and he was like that's crazy that you of all people struggle
Danisha Keating (38:33.742)
I'm pretty good with words until I'm scared and that's where they got to see that and they were like, but they what they what it does really is It helps them see like you are actually fighting for them They're in the room with you versus being where we all have been on the outside in our room While everyone else is talking about you. So when my sister said bring me in like I want to advocate for myself I want to be the person taking that lead. I said, okay, I
Travis (38:34.783)
until I'm scared and that's where they got to see that and they were like but they what they what it does really is it helps them see like you were actually fighting for them in the room with you versus being on the outside in a room while everyone else is talking about you so when my sister said bring me in like I want to advocate for myself I want to be the person taking that lead I said okay but I'm gonna also coach you to where it's not aggressive like I
Danisha Keating (39:01.518)
but I'm going to also coach you to where it's not aggressive like I have been in the past because I don't need to yell at people for a little thing. But there's times for that and there's times for not. So teaching our kids how to advocate I think is the most powerful thing that they can learn because that's really what helps stand them up for standing up for themselves.
Travis (39:05.311)
I'm living this out as you're saying that I'm like we have two two boys adopted from foster care and their ones about to graduate ones right behind him junior and just even in like their fast food jobs, you know, these things come up that just
Brian Mavis (39:08.916)
Yeah.
Danisha Keating (39:24.11)
Mmm.
Danisha Keating (39:28.622)
you
Travis (39:34.815)
happens with work where something in just or something happens. And I've noticed they're so quick to sort of just let an injustice or maybe it's a paycheck mistake or something, just let it be. And part of, and so that's really good advice to that in all realms. And I think sometimes with them, I'm, I'm, I wonder if being in foster care where everything was out of your control, almost taught many kids that adversity, there's nothing you can do. I mean, because, you know, on a big level, a lot of that wasn't anything you could do. And,
Danisha Keating (39:36.654)
Right.
Danisha Keating (40:01.454)
Yeah.
Travis (40:04.543)
I wonder if over time that shapes you to where, okay, this is a much smaller adversity, but again, it's just, I'm so used to letting adversity just wash over me like a huge wave. It's just like, whatever. So. Let's talk about that because I think that's super important is that, like I want everyone listening to imagine being in a situation for years and people going, nope, you can't talk for yourself. Nope, you can't say anything. No, you can't make a decision. Shush.
Danisha Keating (40:15.054)
Right. But let's talk about that. Cause I think that's super important is that, like I want everyone listening to imagine being in a situation for years and people going, nope, you can't talk for yourself. Nope. You can't say anything. No, you can't make a decision. Shush.
and then all of a sudden being like, okay, go.
Brian Mavis (40:34.996)
Mm -hmm.
Danisha Keating (40:36.27)
What choice am I supposed to make? Where am I supposed to go? How am I supposed to do this? And that happened for me was that I went from making all the decisions in my family, not all of the decisions, but with my siblings and being their caretaker and getting us to school, literally physically getting into fights with my parents to get me to school and get us to school that I would walk the kids to school and then walk to school that was like an hour, an hour and a half to get there.
Travis (41:01.503)
like an hour, an hour and a half to get there. And then foster care coming in and going, you can't say anything. If you mess up, if you do anything, I'm going to move you. And then I'm going to move your siblings. And now we're going to fight for you. We've made this decision on your behalf. And you're just like, you're not allowing things to happen to you. They're saying, if you say anything, if you're the loud voice in the room, you're a problem. And now you learn to be quiet.
Danisha Keating (41:04.686)
And then foster care coming in and going, you can't say anything. If you mess up, if you do anything, I'm going to move you. And then I'm going to move your siblings. And now we're going to fight for you. We've made this decision on your behalf. And you're just like, you're not allowing things to happen to you. They're saying, if you say anything, if you're the loud voice in the room, you're a problem. And now you, you learn to be quiet and you learn to not ruffle feathers because it's not going to make it just worse for you. It's going to make it worse for your siblings and or your parents.
Travis (41:26.559)
and you learn to not ruffle feathers because it's not gonna make it just worse for you, it's gonna make it worse for your siblings and or your parents. And then you move into, okay, now go be an adult. Have fun. How are we supposed to do that? And I lived it. So I'm like, my God, that like, I used to think I was crazy. So I'm like, all my friends got this together. And my friend who's a pastor sat me down and he goes, Tanisha, do you realize like...
Danisha Keating (41:34.094)
And then you move into, okay, now go be an adult.
Brian Mavis (41:38.772)
Yeah, that's really good.
Danisha Keating (41:39.278)
Have fun. How are we supposed to do that? And I lived it. So I'm like, my god, that like, I used to think I was crazy. So I'm like, all my friends got this together. And my friend who's a pastor sat me down and he goes, Dinesha, do you realize like, you're not a normal college student. You don't have a community behind you. You don't have family behind you. If you make a mistake, you live your mistake. If you don't pay a bill, your bill gets shut off. You don't have mom or dad to save you. And he's like, girl, like you don't have that security.
Travis (41:53.823)
you're not a normal college student, you don't have a community behind you. You don't have family behind you. If you make a mistake, you live your mistake. If you don't pay a bill, your bill gets shut off. You don't have mom or dad to save you. And he's like, girl, like you don't have that security. And I'm like, yeah. And I was like, that's really rude to say, but he was so right. And he wasn't saying it to be rude. He was just like observing. He's like, of course you're going to struggle. And I'm like, I'm not like normal college students. I'm out here fighting.
Danisha Keating (42:08.878)
And I'm like, yeah. And I was like, that's really rude to say, but he was so right. And he wasn't saying it to be rude. He was just like observing. And he's like, of course you're going to struggle. And I'm like, I'm not like normal college students. I'm out here fighting just to breathe. And that I think is really, is when we start to really look at that and say, okay, don't make a decision ever. And then go out and make a decision at 18, 19, 20, 21 years old. Hopefully it's the right one. Cause no one has shown us before.
Travis (42:23.199)
just to breathe. And that I think is really is when we start to really look at that and say, okay, don't make a decision ever. And then go out and make a decision at 18, 19, 20, 21 years old. Hopefully, it's the right one because no one has shown us before. That that's why we there's so many passive foster youth I think out there is not because we want to be as we have been forced to be. And then it's like now go out and be an adult. Have fun. Right. Yeah.
Danisha Keating (42:37.805)
That's why there's so many passive foster youth I think out there. It's not because we want to be, it's because we have been forced to be. And then it's like now go out and be an adult. Have fun.
Brian Mavis (42:50.068)
Yeah. Before we close this down, there's one more thing that I'd love to learn about. You're currently making a documentary. That's interesting. It's called 33 Roves. And so, yeah, so that's an interesting title. Tell us about that and how listeners can support the film.
Travis (42:51.839)
Before we close this down, there's one more thing that I'd love to learn about. You're currently making a documentary. That's interesting. It's called 33 Rooms. That's an interesting title. Tell us about that and how listeners can support your film. Yes. So 33 Rooms, we're going to be talking about my journey of being homeless and moving from 18 to 24, 33 different times when I aged out of the system.
Danisha Keating (43:00.782)
Yes, yes. Yep. So excited. Yeah.
Yes, so 33 groups, we're gonna be talking about my journey of being homeless and moving from 18 to 24, 33 different times. When I aged out of the system, I literally, senior year of high school in the fall was told like, you're on your own. And I was like, okay, bye. Ended up moving over 33 times. But in this documentary, we're actually gonna be going through the educational and homelessness barriers that foster youth face.
Travis (43:21.407)
I did literally senior year of high school in the fall was told like you're on your own and I was like, okay, bye. And then moving over 33 times, but in this documentary, we're actually gonna be going through the educational and homelessness barriers that foster youth face. We're highlighting organizations that help me along the way, churches, people, friends, teachers, and what we all can do to really help. Because I think when we hear about homelessness and educational barriers for foster youth,
Danisha Keating (43:36.494)
We're highlighting organizations that help me along the way, churches, people, friends, teachers, and what we all can do to really help. Because I think when we hear about homelessness and educational barriers for foster youth, a lot of us kind of throw up our hands and we're like, we don't know what to do because it's just, it's hard. But what we need desperately is community.
Travis (43:49.215)
a lot of us kind of throw up our hands and we're like, we don't know what to do, because it's just, it's hard. But what we need desperately is community. So we're going to be highlighting how community can step in and step up to help us as an adult foster, former foster youth, and be the love and support that we need so that those educational barriers that we do face can be overcome because I would not, I would not be here today if it wasn't for my church family. I would not be here today without the friends that came along the way.
Danisha Keating (43:56.878)
So we're gonna be highlighting how community can step in and step up to help us as an adult foster, former foster youth, and be the love and support that we need so that those educational barriers that we do face can be overcome because I would not be here today if it wasn't for my church family. I would not be here today without the friends that came along the way, the professors, the teachers, the people, Google. I mean, I can't think Google, but whatever. It's not a person, it's just a thing. But it's true. Like, hey.
Travis (44:17.963)
I mean, I can't think Google, but whatever. Sponsor. It's true. Like, hey, thank you person who created Google. But it is my hope is that people can leave this going. You know what? I can't foster. But what I can do is I can invite this former foster youth into my home for dinner and just show them how to do financial aid. I can show them how to do time management. I could show them how to build a resume. I can show them.
Danisha Keating (44:26.734)
Thank you, person who created Google. But it is, my hope is that people can leave this going, you know what? I can't foster, but what I can do is I can invite this former foster youth into my home for dinner and just show them how to do financial aid. I can show them how to do time management. I could show them how to build a resume. I can show them that they're loved and cared for, and that's it. So we, one of the biggest ways that we need support is if you go to daneshakeding .com and put your email in.
Travis (44:46.335)
that they're loved and cared for and that's it. So we, one of the biggest ways that we need support is if you go to danishekeding .com and put your email in, we need a big email list so that way streaming services can see that there are people who wanna see this. And you just, I won't spam you, I will only give you updates, but we are done with production and they're editing right now. And we, it has been such a labor of love, but also a moment of sitting back going like.
Danisha Keating (44:55.566)
We need a big email list so that way streaming services can see that there are people who want to see this. And you just, I won't spam you, I will only give you updates. But we are done with production and they're editing right now. And it has been such a labor of love, but also a moment of sitting back going like, this is not normal to do something like this. This is a pretty big deal. And I'm excited because it will highlight the barriers that we face, but the ways that people can help.
Travis (45:16.031)
This is not normal to do something like this. This is a pretty big deal. And I'm excited because it will highlight the barriers that we face, but the ways that people can help so that when people leave, encouraged to be like, here's how I can support somebody in my life. All right. So denisiakating .com. Yep. Great. And just click there, put your email in, and let's get a big, big, big email list. So.
Danisha Keating (45:25.614)
So that way people leave encouraged to be like, here's how I can support somebody in my life.
Brian Mavis (45:31.252)
All right, so denisakeating .com. Great.
Danisha Keating (45:33.806)
Yep. And just click there, put your email in and let's get a big, big, big email list.
Brian Mavis (45:40.436)
That's very cool.
Travis (45:43.007)
Very cool. So we'll have that. We'll have links to that. We'll have links to anything else we want to mention here, the book. Where can people follow you on Instagram and yeah, follow the story. So all across the board is Dr. Dineshia Keating on social media. The only difference is for Facebook, it's spaced between Dineshia and Keating, but everything else is Dr. D .R. Dineshia Keating. You can also just go to DineshiaKeating .com and click on each one of the little icons for the social media and follow me there.
Danisha Keating (45:43.022)
Yeah, very excited.
Danisha Keating (45:49.934)
Yeah.
Yeah. So all across the board, it's Dr. Dineshah Keating on social media. The only difference is for Facebook, it's spaced between Dineshah and Keating, but everything else is Dr. D .R. Dineshah Keating. You can also just go to DineshahKeating .com and click on each one of the little icons for the social media and follow me there.
Brian Mavis (46:10.936)
Great. Well, Dinesh, it's a pleasure to meet you. You've got a great personality. You've got a smart heart too. Just a real sensitivity towards seeing people individually. So, I'm very grateful for the words that we shared.
Travis (46:13.023)
Perfect. Well, Tanisha, it's a pleasure to meet you. You've got a great personality. You've got a smart heart, too. Just a real sensitivity towards seeing people individually. So I'm very grateful for the words that we shared. Thank you for having me and thank you for all the things that you guys are doing. It's incredible to be a part of your SS community. Thanks. Thanks so much. Bye, guys. Bye. Bye.
Danisha Keating (46:19.31)
Thank you. Thank you.
Danisha Keating (46:27.758)
Thank you.
Thank you for having me and thank you for all the things that you guys are doing. It's incredible to be a part of your ISIS community.
Brian Mavis (46:36.628)
Thanks.
Danisha Keating (46:38.158)
Thank you. Bye guys.
Brian Mavis (46:40.98)
Bye.