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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Red Ledger. I have my friend Dan Seguro. Am I saying that right? Seguro it's, it'sSeguro. Did I say that right? I'm getting really close. We've become very close trying to get this podcast done. This is our fourth recording of the same podcast. Uh, something like that. Yeah. Okay. We're not gonna give up because we're not gonna let Satan win this contest 'cause we have the, we have God and, uh, we felt that it was important to keep going and to, to go another fourth round.
There you go. Dan is a pastor and he has interesting perspectives and likes to answer my questions. I don't even know if that's true, but he does answer them. So I think we're decided we're kind of going freestyle and just gonna go wherever the Lord leads us today. Absolutely. So we should probably pray.
Yeah. Father, thank you so much for bringing us together, Dan and I to have this podcast. Thank you for. Really helping all of our electronics and everything to run smoothly. We, we thank you for your guidance in that area, which we strongly need. And just fill us with you. Fill us with your word, your intention, what you want, people who would watch this, who come upon this, what you would want revealed into their hearts, and any questions that they've needed answered.
We asked that you answer these in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. I think I wanna start with the equally yoked Okay. Issue. I think we've talked about this before, but it never made it to a video. Yeah. I have different feelings about equally yoked than I used to. Okay. And. I just did another podcast with a couple of friends that I actually went to Bible college with, and, um, I don't think them, we agree on it either.
Yeah. And I, I think you had a pretty good answer for me. So you are how old? I will be 37 in July. So you're 37 in July and you are a single Christian pastor. Yes. And that's not where your heart is, but you do probably really wanna be equally yoked 'cause you understand the importance of that. Is that correct?
I. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, it's just super important. I have seen both sides where I've seen people who have, uh, who have yoked themselves with somebody who's not on the same stride as they are and who they struggle. I. It's, it's been, it's, it's almost kind of draining for them. Um, there's a constant need of uplifting and not necessarily in a needy kind of way, but it's like, Hey, I just need encouragement.
I just need somebody to breathe life into me. And we as a community will rally around, uh, this individual, uh, and, and love on them and support them. Uh, but I've also seen how people are on the same stride and they are thriving. Obviously not everything is perfect and I think that's probably, uh, where people can miss it is they expect this picture of perfection where it's just gonna be flawless and smooth sailing.
But if you walk with Jesus long enough, we know that that's not the case. There's always gonna be some type of bump on the road. There's gonna be always some type of disagreement, but I think that's the beauty of relationship. Amen. You know, it's that, it's, it's friction. E even obviously it doesn't feel good at at the moment, but when you move past the friction, then you're at the place where it's like, you know what?
I don't think I've want to go through this life without, with anybody else but you. Because though we, we have friction. I love how we can reconcile to one another. I love that. So I think. My previous position on this was when, in our earlier conversation, um, I think equally yoked means more than we're just believing in God.
It means more than we're just saved at this point. To me. Yeah. Like, and maybe that's a personal thing because I, I think God's design, everything he instructs us is for our good. It's not, you know, because. He wants to hurt us or keep us from something good, it's because he wants to give us the most. 'cause he's kind of feels like he's the God of more.
He's the God of abundance. Yeah. So I recently have two people in my life and let's hope they don't watch this one. But, um, both of them are dating people who are there not equally yoked to meaning. Um. They are, they're for sure not yoked. It's not even a believer situation. They are believers and the person isn't, and they both, this is kind of the common theme I hear from people in the situation is, God sent me this person to change their heart.
I just don't see that in the scripture. Do you? No, I, I can't say that I do. Well, I love their intentions because they think God sent this person to them, which, you know, these are all God's people. I feel like it's a way for them to rationalize a bad decision that they're walking into. I mean, I'm a strong believer of this, and whatever it is that you're looking for, whether good, bad, indifferent, positive, negative, you're gonna find it.
Mm-hmm. You know, and, and we, we see all around, uh, human history where people have used the word of God, uh, for their own purposes. So right now, if I wanted to, um, to lead my life, I could use the scriptures to lead how I wanted to look. I. And I could say, but it's all here in the Bible. See? But it could be, but it's, but it's in a selfish motive kind of way where I'm self-serving.
I mean, we could see this with the Pharisees and the scribes, where they use the word, um, to, to walk the way that they wanted to walk in a way that was honoring them and glorifying themselves. So manipulating scripture. Yeah. Is not going to result in the fruit we want it to. Exactly. Yeah. If we look at the Pharisees and how things worked out for them.
Oh yeah. I think that cherry picking of scripture, that manipulating of scripture, when I think of when I've maybe done it in the past, 'cause I didn't fully understand, of course it bears no fruit 'cause it's not true. It's not truth. Yeah. And you're, you're, you're basing your decisions on a lie. And even if we don't intend for it to be like, I truly think these people love these people in their lives Yeah.
And would like this to work out. And I pray it does because, you know, I, I was in the same situation with my husband where. Um, I think he always believed in God, but he wasn't following. Yeah. Right. He wasn't following Jesus. And I was for sure, and it made it very hard on our marriage because what I see across the board when people who are not equally yoked.
It's so much easier to get dragged down than to lift somebody up. Yeah. And not that I was getting dragged down, but it was easier for me to go, okay, I won't go to church. Let's not go to church. It was easier for me to compromise what I knew God wanted me to do because that was my husband. Yeah. It was easier for.
Me to compromise my values and what I wanted to be doing because it was okay. Now I wonder now, you know, it's so much different where I have a partner who's on board with me Yeah. And holds me accountable in a loving way. And I'm not saying wake, we did crazy things, but, but it wasn't God's best. Yeah.
We're just all on this journey. And, and there's people that you see, uh, where they step into relationship, where you see, hey, this, this is God, God working in their situation. And it's not where you would personally start the journey, but, uh, sometimes I think God will. Um, because he, we, we have a choice, right?
Like we have a choice. Um, God gave Abraham a choice to, to whether he was gonna wait on him or not, and he birthed in Ishmael. Mm-hmm. And we see God did bless Ishmael. Obviously those blessings were pretty wild. Um, but, um, and not to excuse people to say, okay, hey listen, you may be tired of waiting on God, so go ahead and birth an Ishmael.
But you can see, uh, where, where things kind of. Even in that there was a type of blessing. You know, it wa I mean, obviously yes, it, because if we fast forward as we see Ishmael really, um, really coming down on Isaac really hard, and so there was a price to be paid there. So yes, they were both Abraham's son, but the son birthed outside.
The promise was a burden to the son of the promise. That is interesting. So, so you can. You can enjoy, uh, stepping outside of maybe God's perfect will and how some people would call this the permissible will because I see it, I've seen it in people's lives where, where they step into that permissible.
It's like, okay, you, you know, I'll allow it, but you're gonna have to pay the consequences now. Yes. You know, where it had you waited, maybe God would've brought you an individual who was going to encourage you with your fa in your faith and lead you and all this stuff. But now you're kind of having to, to pull the wagon yourself for two people instead of one.
Yeah. And, and you know, you could get messy with all this stuff and we could go around in circles talking about the unequally yolked and stuff at the end of the day. Um, you know, like. It, it, you're, it, it, the Bible says to run your race, right? Mm-hmm. Are you gonna run it perfectly? No. Are you gonna make mistakes?
Yes. But at the end of the day, are you walking and, and, and God's plan for your life? Are you walking in repentance? Are you walking in holiness? I think those are the things that matter the most. Yes, we want to get relationships right, and we should, uh, but maybe you missed it there. You know, I've seen that, I've seen that in people's lives and, um, and I, I, I strongly believe that they love Jesus.
Uh, but maybe they're not walking out the perfect will of God. How I would perceive it. Perceive it, I guess. Right. Well, and who is
besides Jesus? You know, this thing is messy. Like life is messy in general, and we, we have a picture of what we want life to look like. We, I mean, you know. Uh, Hollywood does a really good job of painting this, this perfect picture of what. Stepping into relationship was gonna look like what stepping into adulthood is gonna look like.
I mean, even so me being an immigrant, I had a picture of what living in the United States was gonna look like. Okay. So, because I've watched, I watched the movies as a kid and, and so I remember moving here and being so excited. I'm like, it's gonna be just like the movies. It's gonna be great. And then when I got to America, to the us, I went to school and I was like, Hey.
This school doesn't even look like the school. In the movie. Uh, the people aren't as friendly as I thought they were going to be. And, and, you know, all this stuff, I had this picture. Uh, but I, but I, not everybody drives a Porsche. No. Um, but, but I just had this picture of what life in America was gonna be and I thought it was gonna be magical and I thought it was gonna be, um.
You just, I don't wanna say supernatural per se, but, uh, but the magical part, and I think when we're actually doing what we pictured, the magic kind of wears off per se, because there is a daily grind to everything there is. Um. There is a mundane part to it all, but there's still this excitement of, I, you know, 'cause I was a kid, so it's different.
But even as adults, when we step into life in general, we have this picture of, okay, I'm gonna get married by this time. I'm gonna, uh, this is what my relationship's gonna look like. We're gonna be super godly, we're gonna be super anointed. But then it's like, oh wait, there's temptation here. Oh wait. I didn't realize I was going to feel this way about this person.
Now I have to be really careful because I like him maybe a little too much. Yes. You know what I'm saying? And it's, it's, it's that whole process of like, okay, here's your picture. Okay. And then there's God's picture, and then there's the picture that other people have for you. Mm-hmm. So you have these three different pictures that you're working through.
Mm-hmm. And you're surrendering your picture of what your life is supposed to look like, and you're trying to, you're trying to let God draw the picture that he has for you, but then you're also trying to fend off people's picture that they have for you. People are so good about telling you who to date, uh, what house to buy, where you should go to school, because they see, they're like, oh, I see this, blah, blah, blah, and they get so excited, not realizing that maybe that's not God's plan for your life.
Right. How many godly relationships have come to an end because the person that was in this, this relationship folded to somebody else's picture for their life? Oh, wow. Right. You know what I mean? Well, I, that leads me to, okay, so you're, you know, dating, you're in that realm. Yeah. Right? Because you're a young Christian pastor who wants to have a family and have this, and this is what's I, I just happen to know this is something you want.
Yeah. Is that fair? That's very fair. So there is an equally yoked level of some people meaning, okay, I just have to believe, but. You are dating for marriage. Yeah. You're dating for like, there's a higher level of equally yoked for you. Yeah. Right? Oh, absolutely. Do you think, is there like a much higher standard, so you have to be dating somebody that knows they could be a pastor's wife?
Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's that thing where, uh, because you know, I've, I've gone into that, Hey, let's just see what happens here. And, and truthfully, we weren't, we weren't necessarily equally yolked. I mean, we both were Christians, um, but you know, where the other person saw themselves kind of doing, um, they, they were, they just wanted to live their life, you know?
But I was trying to follow Christ. And so there's a difference there where, um, yes, she wanted to go to church, you know, on occasion. And I wanted, I, I, I felt called to be in church, you know, like this. Yes. I, I'm, I feel called to be in ministry. I feel called to serve the Lord. Um, whether that's just being there in person, period.
Um, and they didn't feel that same way as I, they even had mentioned to me. They're like, well. I, I don't wanna be there. I don't wanna live at church. And when you're a pastor, whether you want to or not, you do kind of live there. He kind of feels like my pastor and his family are always at the church. And, and obviously there's, you know, you try to find some type of balance because even when we say the thing, you gotta find a balance.
It's, let's be real. If, if we talk to a lot of people in ministry, they'll tell you, be like, they're. I don't have a balance. Yeah. And so you're trying to do the best you can to steward your time for yourself, for your family, for the ministry. And it, it's, it, it, I think there's like seasons where, where, um, one part of you is gonna get more than the other part of you.
So like, if I'm being real and honest with you right now is, right now I'm kind of like at a season in a sense though I am serving in ministry and stuff, I'm kind of in a season of rest right now where there's not a whole lot on my plate per se. Uh, but I've had seasons where I'm going a thousand miles an hour.
I'm, you know, trying to prepare sermons. I'm trying to prepare events and all this stuff and, you know, while also trying to work a job. And also trying to find some time to rest and so and so, by the grace of God, I am kind of in that season where. I don't have a whole lot of load on my life right now, you know, aside from, uh, just trying to provide for myself, trying to, uh, establish, build for my future, that's a different story.
Uh, but that's just kind of where I'm at. So it's just that it's this wrestling match of what, what is required of you in the season that you're in right now. Are you, let's talk about balance a little bit. I wanna talk about that just a little bit more. 'cause I think that's something that keeps coming up for me.
Sure. Um, I agree with you that there are just seasons. It seems like even Jesus had seasons, right? Yes. But I am in a super busy season of my life and I knew it was coming. Wow. God gave me a season of rest. A very extended one. Um, yeah. Maybe it was like it was a year or two. Yeah. Of where I just didn't have a whole lot of responsibilities.
Yeah. And I could not enjoy it. And I remember him telling me to enjoy it. Wow. Enjoy this. Yeah. So my first question is, are you enjoying your season of rest? Just raw and authentic. I, I would say there is moments where I love it and then there's moments where I don't so much love it. And not for the reasons that you think, but it's.
There's part of, of you want to be doing, but then there's also mm-hmm. Like, um, because being a bi-vocational minister, and honestly right now I'm volunteer minister and so, um. It's, I'm trying to provide for myself. And right now, uh, the job market is, is kind of rough. Uh, and so I'm finding myself working more than I'd like to be working.
Uh, but at the same time, just trying to enjoy the moments that are enjoyable. So give you an example. Uh, this past weekend I got to spend some time with some friends, and though I was exhausted because I had been working a long stretch of weekends. Um, I wasn't going to allow the fact that I was tired to take away from spending time with friends who can breathe life into me.
Yeah. You know, because relationship is so vital for us. And so, um, I. Because if we're not careful, we're just gonna live life and, and we're gonna be so locked into like, whether it's your career, whether it's your goals or whatever, where you're not going to make time for people who are just gonna breathe on you and vice versa.
Mm-hmm. Like, I mean, I don't know about you, but I have people in my life where, when I spend time with them, it's not a, it's not a chore. Yes. I don't feel this. I don't feel this, oh man, now I have to go spend this time over there. Uh, but it's this man. We're just gonna, it's almost kind of that, that intimacy that we have with God where we, where if we're not careful, we can, we can look at it as a burden when it's really just almost like a, in an end feeling.
You know where mm-hmm. Where we're filled with this peace, where we're filled with this joy. But if I continuously look at something as a burden, it's not gonna be filling in any way. Amen. You know? So, uh, because I see this a lot too, is where, um, we can get in this mindset of, of like everything, or I'm so burdened that everything becomes a burden.
Mm-hmm. And so you, the things that are supposed to be enjoyable. Then they also become burden. So like this past weekend, I could have looked at this thing, or I could have looked at this hangout of like, oh, great, now I have to go over there. And I had to drive an hour, I had to drive an hour to get there and drive an hour back.
And I could have looked at that and been like, now I gotta drive a whole hour to get there, and then I gotta drive all the way back. But I didn't do that because I was so excited to spend time with my friends. To know that we were gonna have great laughs. We were gonna have great food, and I was gonna walk out of there refreshed though I was tired.
Um, but there was something that happens in my soul that I can say, you know what, I wouldn't take it back for anything in the world. That's awesome. I think so many things in life are how we frame them, right? It's, it's what we decide there that they are. Yeah. I think it's in Proverbs, what we think becomes who we are.
It what we think runs our life. Right. So if we're gonna think things that aren't praiseworthy and bad, I mean, that's, that's what our life becomes. Yeah. I used to do this with, um, bookwork. I used to hate it, hate it, hate it. And that's what I pronounced to everybody is how much did I hate it One day? I just thought, what if I just.
Thought of the good things, like, I'm really fast at this, I'm really good at this. I, it doesn't take me long, like just do it. And I changed what I said and thought about it and it really changed how I did it. And what, yeah, I mean I really, I. M like it. I am good at it. I'm fast at it and it really changes my attitude because with that negative attitude that I had, it really spilled on people around me.
Yeah. You know, my poor husband, if he made a mistake or did something, I'd get so frustrated 'cause it would cost me so much time. Yeah. To fix or something. Just silly stuff. But it really is just a lot in your attitude, isn't it? Absolutely. I work in the children's ministry. Okay. And, um, one of the teachers was in there and was talking to me about balance and how I shouldn't be so busy.
And I'm like, well, I knew God told me I was coming into the season. So I kind of felt like this is where he has me right now and this is what it is. Yeah. This is where I'm at. And, um. And I was trying to realize, trying to think about, okay, am I receiving this? Is God speaking through her or am I, am I misunderstanding my calling for this particular time?
'cause I don't believe this is forever. Yeah. I believe this is just, you know, we have a lot of new things happening that require a lot of me. Yeah. Um. But I think what you said that is kind of sticking with me is making sure we still prioritize the spiritual Yeah. In our relationship with God and the people.
Yeah. Because I think that's what I forget sometimes is the people are what's important, and I have to say that even out loud. Okay. The people are important. Yeah. The people are important. No matter what I'm doing. Yeah, I wouldn't say the people. I'd say your people. Yes. Well, if God sends somebody for me to pray over I, I mean, sometimes I don't know them.
No, because I just look back at the environments that I've thrived the most and they've always been environments where I have just that, that strong community. Yes. You know, I. I got people around me who are just, you know, encouraging me, uh, praying for me, but also just like helping me laugh, helping me come alive again.
I. Well, and Jesus does this with his people, right? Absolutely. He is. Come pray with me. Come, come hold me up. I'm gonna go up here. I need you guys to stay awake and pray with me. And, and they didn't. But I wonder how, how many times the disciples laughed together. I. With Jesus. I wonder the inside jokes that they had with each other.
I, I hope they did so much. It seems like they would've, right? Yeah. Because God likes it when I'm funny with him. Oh, absolutely. The relationship, I guess what I'm, I, I guess what I was thinking, I was thinking of two different things you said. Yes, I do like the idea of, you know, being around those people who are lifting you up spiritually and.
Who are, you know, doing life with you in a godly way, um, because it is important for us to get filled, but it's also. You know, like what's our calling here? Is our calling so important that we're forgetting to, to pray that, you know, we can't take five minutes to go pray for somebody or take that phone call from somebody who just needs some time with us.
Yeah. And I think sometimes that's the part where I lose sight when I'm too busy. Even if I am in this season. Absolutely. Life will run you over if you let it kind of thing. And so it's just getting back to, getting back to that. I don't. The, I don't have any other words to say it, but it's like getting back to that center.
It's like, okay, how's my prayer life? How's my reading of the word? Because yes, that's going to be. What sustains you ultimately, because there will be those seasons of no community. There will be those seasons of, Hey, my friends are just busy. And so, uh, ultimately who is with you in the abundance and in the famine, and that's the Lord.
Thank God. Yeah. Thank God he's so faithful. Right. That we can just trust that he's there, that he's always there. Absolutely. I'm so, um, thankful for that. I, I think just on this journey of, of all relationships and stuff, like I said, everybody's journey is different, but one thing that I'm learning is that, um, just be okay when God shuts the door.
Mm-hmm. You know, just, does it feel great? No. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Um, but at the end of the day. I think there's just something kind of beautiful that can happen in a place of disappointment when it comes to relationships because, um, if we, like, if we look at Joseph, obviously this wasn't necessarily relationship based for him, but if we look at the, the disappointments that, um, that happened in his life Okay.
Is obviously they, they were horrible. I mean, he was thrown in a pit, then he was thrown in prison. Right, but where did that ultimately get him to? Mm-hmm. It got him to God's purpose. The pit was a part of the purpose. The, the, the prison was a part of his purpose. And so in our own dating lives, because hey, if you're following the Lord, it doesn't mean that you're going to, um, not go through anything.
Even in relationships, like even in today's culture, like there's going to be people who you're connecting to for a season that they may not be around forever. I. They may not be your forever person, but it's what God did through that situation that could be, uh, that sets you up for the next season that he's gonna carry you to.
And so that's just what I've been learning, um, over these last probably few years now, is, uh. Is, is taking with you what that person gave you in the sense of like, Hey, what did you learn from, uh, engaging in with this person in maybe a potential relationship, but even, or even in relationship is what, what did you find in yourself that you need to work on?
That's awesome. What was the treasure that God brought out of you in that? Uh, 'cause even for me, um. Like even just recently, just, uh, these things that he was working out of me through, through certain situations that I was in. And, and honestly though though they didn't go as I was hoping that they would go, is I'm super thankful for them because I'm a better person for it now.
That's awesome. You know, and so this is how you know you're walking in God's will for your life, even in relationships is. Did you walk out of there broken or did you walk out of there more whole than you were before? Obviously it's, it's not a one size fits all. So what you're saying is he possibly can lead you to.
A relationship that's not forever. Yeah, right. Absolutely. But you're putting your toe in the water and you're dating and you're learning. You probably both came away with some lesson in here. I believe that now more than ever, you know, because the situations that I've, I've, I've explored and kind of gotten to know, like, I can honestly say each one.
Felt the Lord leading me there. Oh, wow. Felt the Lord telling me to wait there. Mm-hmm. You know? And did they work out like I was hoping that they would? No. But it's, it's the fruit that came from that. And, and I believe this more than anything. Just like with, with Joseph, you know, from the pit to the prison, to the palace.
It is, it's gonna get me to where he wants me to be. Ultimately, you know, there will come that time where, where I'll meet the person that God wants me to meet, and that's gonna be who I'm gonna be with. You know, but IWI don't think I would've been as prepared for her had I not gone through the previous situations with somebody else.
Obviously, I never compromised who I was. I never compromised, uh, holiness. I never compromised, uh, the standards that God wants me to live by. Please note that everyone, what he just said, he didn't compromise the holiness it. Absolutely. Uh, and, and so the thing is though, is that, um. It could, it could not work out.
And still be God. Mm-hmm. And, and I, and I mean this in every area of life, I'm talking about a job situation. 'cause I, I've heard stories and I've experienced it myself, where God takes you somewhere and you know, he took you there, but it didn't work out like you thought it would, but it worked something in you through the process.
I had this happen where, um, I felt God was leading me to purchase this faith-based gym and I didn't have a strong relationship with him then. I mean, I had a relationship, but I didn't know for sure if I was hearing from God. So I was trusting other people on what God was saying to them. Yeah. And he was so faithful because it was.
It was from God, right? That I went through these motions, but it was so somebody else could eventually own it in a short, short amount of time, but wasn't able to purchase it under the terms the previous owner. Yeah. So it was kind of this beautiful thing where we kind of went in and cleaned it up a little bit and got it out of a distressed thing.
And then passed it on to the next owner. I just thought I was a failure a little bit for a minute, and I'm like, no, I was supposed to be there. I was the conduit. Yeah, there is a whole sermon in that one clip right there. And, and that's exactly where, where I'm touching at is that, um, you know, like it's that situation that did not work out like you planned, but it did something beautiful.
It, it, it brought something together that wouldn't have happened had you not been there. And so, I mean, we just talked about this earlier where, where, you know, this situation that, um, I recently just experienced, you know, it, it taught both parties something. Mm-hmm. It wasn't me that I was taking something away and it wasn't just the other party, but it, it, it's, it's just, this is what I love about God is the beautiful work that he does on the inside of us and how it's just so.
It, it's uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. But, but it's, it's just the, the end result that is, is just the takeaway from it. It's just, it's beautiful and it gives you so much peace. Amen. Like the peace that you get to know, Hey, it didn't happen, like I thought it was gonna happen. But just knowing that you were walking with me through it and knowing that, um, I had you were by my side each step of the way.
There's actually a psalm that says this. This is with my eye on you. I will teach you and show you the way that you should go. You know, and it's that thing where, um, so when you study that, my eye on you, he's looking you, he's looking at you as a, as a servant and saying, okay, watch, watch my eye on you and watch the way my eye moves so that you can move accordingly.
Mm-hmm. If I need you to pick this up, you'll pick it up. If I need you to put this down, you'll put it down because you know my eye is on you and I'm leading you perfectly in everything where you, who you need to be around. Where you need to be and and where I'm calling you to be. Amen. And I think I love that because when we are where we need to be, we are working the kingdom plan out.
And I think sometimes we as selfish individuals, meaning me, get caught up in thinking the plan is about us and then realizing, oh, that was beautiful, how that worked out for that person. Like I was the conduit rather than the hero of the story. You know what I mean? I'm just the conduit and that's good.
That's good. And it, you know, looking back on it, I feel so blessed to be part of it. Yeah. But, and it also taught me to hear God. 'cause I was like, okay, I didn't hear God, but I heard from him many times after that when he said, well, I didn't tell you that. I told him that. Like, oh, okay. So it made me learn.
And have this strong desire to want to hear him. 'cause it was a little stressful, you know? But, um, going through some of those motions and realizing that, oh, this isn't for me, and not understanding. So it, it, um, helped me to fine tune my ear. Oh, absolutely. And, and, and, and that's the whole, that's the whole point is, is, is just growing in relationship with God.
Um, knowing where he's leading you, knowing where, where he's taking you out of. And God is just so gracious to us, and, and he's just like, oh, if you only knew. If you could only perceive, if you could only know the final picture. 'cause again, with Joseph is, is I'm sure there was probably moments where Joseph was like, how did I get here?
Yeah. How did I end up here? Something that I actually read, um, with, in the story of Joseph in Potter's first house, Joseph was there for 11 years. Wow. And you never get this feeling that he was this kinda whiny crybaby about anything. No. You just don't get that feeling from any of the story. You just feel like he's just like, okay.
Here we are. Let's make the best of this here where we're at, God, what's next? That's kind of the feel. He, yeah. No, absolutely. And so the whole potter for his house thing, the thing that really blew me away by that is that, um, God was, he closed that door. Mm. Because what would've happened had God not closed that door, he probably would've stayed there for a while.
Like, I wanna say, maybe even forever, because maybe something on the inside of him said, Hey, this is where. This is your ult. This is your ultimate right here. Oh. Because he could have allowed previous situations to say, Hey, this is what you're worth. I mean, just thank God you're not there anymore. Mm. But God's saying, no, I have an ultimate plan for you.
This is just the middle spot to get you to where I want you to be. And sometimes God has to force the, like, uh, God has to close the door on us. It's just, it's, it's. It's really uncomfortable. It doesn't feel good in the moment, but like I said, every time you're just so thankful, you're like, man, God, I would not have closed this on my own, and I'm so glad that you did it for me.
Wow. That's some, um, heavy thoughts going through my mind right now. That's a good word. I'm kind of in a place of making some big decisions where I'm like, God, you led me to this. Where do you want me again? God's plan for us isn't always how we, you know, always what we're thinking it's gonna be. It's actually never what we think it's gonna be.
It's always better, like it's always different, but better and more interesting. I had a very. Drawing vision for my children or you know, one of my kids when he was having a hard time. And God gave me this vision because sometimes I would be like, I'm praying God, like I trusting you. You told me to trust you.
And I'm starting to feel like I don't trust you. And I'd like, he gave me a pretty good vision and everything that has happened since then is way better than I even imagined. It is so much better. He's just so good. He's the God of more, he's God of abundance. He is, he, he listens to mom's prayers. So if you have children out there or, um, grandchildren pray, he, he listens to our prayers.
Yeah. And I, I think the other thing though too is when we talk about God's plan and his purpose is, um. Because I think one thing that can happen, because we have this picture of what everything is gonna look like, is we, we can fall into the danger of being so married to it that uh, we miss God's picture that he has for us.
You know, like where all of a sudden we see God pending the canvas purple, and in our mind it was red and we're like, wait, no, God does this. That doesn't work. That's not lining up to me. That's not what I wanted. You know? Uh, because we, uh, we can give this example of, of Moses and Joshua where, uh. Where, I mean, God told Joshua, he said, Hey, have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous?
Like to be courageous? So that means that Joshua was fearful of this transition that was happening. I. Where God said, Hey Moses, my servant is dead. Now you go and lead these people into the promised land. Where Joshua could have got caught up is he could have been like, wait, God, um, can't he go with me?
Like is, I mean, you could still keep him around. He could be like a consultant. He can, I mean, he's been leading the Israelites for 40 years, so he knows what he's doing. So this could really work out for the both of us. He could stay here with me. Um, he doesn't have to lead anymore, but I could just keep doing this and God's like, no, no, no, no, no.
He's like, I want you fully dependent on me because I don't want you to, I don't want you to get So, uh, dependent on who, on Moses and his experience, I want you to lean into my presence more. Hmm. You know, and, and so, uh, but Joshua could have held onto this picture of Moses where I bet you. If, uh, like, 'cause we do, this is where we can hold onto something so tightly that, uh, the, the word or the picture or whatever is expired.
Mm. And so we're holding onto bones now. Oh yes. Like, there's no flesh there. There's no skin there, there's no, there's nothing of life there. And, and, and so it's that thing. It's like, can you let it go into what God wants to do? Or are you going to let this keep you from where God wants to take you next?
Good word, because I've seen that too. I've seen people hold on longer than they should have and ultimately miss what God had for them. You and, and in your mind, you're racking your brain and you're like, man, God, I know you wanted to do so much more through their lives. Well, and it's, I think it's our measurement of what the success of the thing is, right?
Maybe it's a, if it's a relationship, you're meeting someone and God led you to, you're like, okay, this is supposed to end in marriage. Right. Because why would God lead me to that without that? Yeah. Or I am led to do a podcast and you know, who knows what this is gonna turn into or if, right. Like there's, we don't know.
And I think that you're right. I think also when we start exalting things above God, it's really hard to let go of them. Oh, absolutely. Because, um, 'cause I think of it like this is, you know, my, my first pastoral position was in Florida. I. I loved it. I grew up in tropical weather. Um, but once God closed that door, I could have been stubborn and been like, okay, well then I'll just get a job out here.
I'll live out here. Mm. I'll make my way out here. But that wasn't God's plan for my life. After he closed the door, he said, Hey, it's time to move on, Moses. My servant is dad. Now you go lead these people into where I'm calling them to be. You know? So it's, it's just that thing. It's, it's, um. Can you let it go?
Yeah. Can you let it go? You know, when we're talking about relationships is, is, uh, 'cause I, I've seen this so much. I. In the church is where, um, somebody will be, they'll constantly be asking for prayer. They'll be asking for advice and they'll be like, Hey, I'm just kind of trying to pray through if, if we should break up, if we should move forward.
And, and obviously it's everybody's race to run, so you do it how you see fit, but um, you can see, you can see, and everybody around them can see it's time to transition out of that. Mm-hmm. But they're so married. Uh, to their desire for marriage or their desire to lead their life, that they stay with somebody who will ultimately.
Uh, destroy the relationship with God, destroy their life. Like they'll, they'll allow this person to blow their life up in such a way where now, where it could have been just a, a slow time of healing and rest and being restored to now there's years taking off their life. There's mm-hmm. There's years taking off of their purpose where they're having to clean all this mess up.
And it doesn't take five or 10 minutes, it could be five or 10 years. So it's being so mindful and so watchful of saying, okay, God, are you closing this door? Is it time to go? And, and I'll be, and, and I'll be really honest with you, is, um, had I not allowed God to do what he wanted to do in my life, I believe this with all my heart, I probably would've already been divorced by now.
Oh my goodness. Because this the situation that I stepped into, I look back at it now and seeing all the ways that it could have messed me up and destroyed my life. Um mm-hmm. But because I allowed God to do what he wanted to do is, is yes, it ended up in, in a, in a breakup. Uh, but the breakup was the best thing that happened to me because I know that it, it would've cost me so much more than I was willing to pay.
Mm-hmm. But again, because I surrendered it to God, he took care of it, and it took some time to heal, but I know it could have been so much worse. I, I think the confusion happens when we become so, um, worldly minded or us minded and not kingdom minded, right? We're not, we're not really here to follow Jesus.
We're here to follow our plan. Yeah. And I think that I've, I've fallen into that. Um, I, oh, I think we all have, maybe even last week. Right. Um, what, oh, what if God told you that he wanted you just to stay single? I mean, that's, um, that's a very, that's a real thing. And I've heard stories of where God will.
It's almost that, it's almost kind of that Abraham moment, Abraham and Isaac moment where, oh yes, here you're here, you are receiving God's promise. And God says, will you lay it down? Yes. And, and, and that's, and and truthfully, this is how I felt, um, when, when my relationship folded in the past, uh, where I felt like God's promise had been fulfilled there and it was coming together.
And I felt like it was in a way God saying, Hey, will you trust me enough to bring this to an end? Mm-hmm. Will you lay this down on the altar and sacrifice it to me knowing that I, that I have the ultimate, um, the ultimate plan for your life here to, to put this to an end, though it's gonna hurt you, I'm going to do something with it.
And truthfully, that's what he did for my life. You know, and, and, and he'll confront us in, in our singleness too, because I also had had that conversation with a mentor of mine where, where they said, Hey, if you never get married, is God still good? I even if it never happens, as he's still good. And it's that, it's that same moment where it is that same moment, Hey.
Will you sacrifice this? Will you say yes to singleness potentially for life, knowing that I know what I have for your life? Yeah. That is heavy. This is the craziest part is that this is where people, this is where, um, where those who are full, like truly surrendered to the Lord. This is where we, we, uh, weed out the, the sheep and the goats because it, it's in that question because people have walked away.
People have walked away where they said, I can't do that. I can't do that. God, I want to get married. I, I want to be with somebody. And they miss, they miss what God could do. And, and it leads them to wherever they're going, wherever they're deciding to go. And, um. And, and this is just something that God worked in me, um, over these last five or six years.
It's, it's that, hey, I mean, 'cause again, with the whole picture thing is, I'll be honest with you, is I, I never expected to be single at 37. Hmm. Like, that was not in my like 10 year plan. I didn't say, you know what, at 37, I'm still gonna be single in ministry doing what I need to do. That was not the plan.
And, and I'm thankful of God's wisdom in not revealing things too soon. Mm-hmm. For me, I'm sure there's people that he does that to because we're all wired d differently. But had you told me at 27 that at 37 I was still gonna be single, I probably would've cried like a baby. Because it would, it would've been so devastating to me, but it's, it's how, um, how much relationships was an idol to me at the time.
Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Interesting. Yeah. It would, it would've exposed my idolatry to relationships because now if you tell me that, I mean, it's still a punch in the gut to say, Hey, by 47 you're gonna be single. But walking the way that I've walked with the Lord and, and having allowed him to do a work in me, I say, okay, it hurts, but I know that you're with me and you're walking with me through it all.
Because I have this history with God. He's proven himself faithful. Uh, even so, um, so even as the year started with me is I felt like I was in some familiar places that I was at last year. Mm-hmm. You know, have ex experiencing some loss, experiencing some disappointment, and the anger and the bitterness that I had last year.
I didn't have it this year. Why? Because there was already a work that he did in me to know, Hey, it's disappointing. It's, it's, uh, discouraging. But I know the God who walks with me now more than I did last year. And so I'm able to trust them at a different level. And I can tell you that, uh, my heart is, is, is a, is in a, in a healed place.
Yeah. Because I no longer have the heart that I had last year where I would've been bitter, I would've been angry, I would've been shaking my fist of like, God, how dare you do this to me again, is saying, okay, God, it's, it's a bummer, but I know you're with me. Do in life with God? Do you feel like you know yourself better?
Did it strengthen your identity in him 1000%? Mm-hmm. But it was that saying yes to uncomfort. Uncomfortability. It was saying yes to, to disappointment, but also being able to sit in it. I think this is all over our world, not just in believers. We do not like to sit in discomfort. What did that look like?
Did, like, did you hang out with God in it? Like. Tell me how, what that looked like for you. It, it's a yes and no. It's, it's a, just having that ugly cry, just saying, this is horrible. This is the worst thing that could have ever happened to me. And grieving that and saying, you know what, you're, for me, you're all my, like, it's that thing.
Uh, looking back at Joseph again, one of the things that I read that so impacted me, I. Honestly, I think it was like almost 10 years ago now. Um, and, and I, I never read it like this, and it was literally all you could see, I think it was all in Genesis 37, all over, probably from 37 to 39, where it says after something happened, it said the Lord was with Joseph.
Mm-hmm. And yeah, we can, we can read past that and be like, okay, God was with him. But EI, as I was reading those words almost 10 years ago, because I was in a season of preparation, I had been so wanting to be in ministry at the time and not seeing doors open, not seeing opportunities, seeing other people receive those opportunities that I wanted for myself.
And, and reading those words that comforted me and said the Lord was with Joseph, and it hit me like a ton of bricks to say, okay, though things don't look how you want them to look right now, you can trust that the Lord is with you. I think we forget that. Yeah. I mean, even though we know we live in this new covenant where we have access to God, like they didn't have, not everyone had access to God like that then.
So it's really interesting how, even though we are living in this, I think a privileged covenant. Yes. Um, we, we forget. We forget that we don't have to do any of this alone. Like none of it is alone. There's no reason to be worried or scared or have the frustration or uncertainty because he's doing it with us.
We, I mean, even you could see it in the scripture where God tells the Israelites, have you forgotten? You know, maybe not verbatim like that, but it's basically what he would say to them. You know, like, it's kind of, didn't I provide the quail? Didn't I provide the manna? And we just we're, we're so easy to forget, but it's the following state that we're in.
We're just following people and, and, uh, this, this gracious savior, um, brings us back to that place of like, oh, now I remember. It doesn't happen very often, but every once in a while come across to a believer who has had. And always the new believers get the crazy miracles, right? Like they get the crazy, fun stuff, all of it.
And, and I, they experience this and then they forget. And I do it too. I'm not saying I blah, blah, blah, but it's always amazing to me like, all this just happened to you, like last month. How'd you forget? But, and then I do the same thing. So it's, it's interesting how, how quickly, I think that's why we have to, um.
I think that's important. Like when we are praying that we enter his courts with praise and Thanksgiving. 'cause it reminds us of all of the things he is and does for us. And I think that's a great reminder in our prayers to open him that way. For that reason. No absolute to remember. Remember who he is and what he's done.
Uh, one of my mentors reminded me. She was telling me, she was like, Hey, listen, you know, 'cause she's been walking me for such a long time, and she's like a big sister. And she told me, she said, Hey, I know right now you're sitting in some disappointment, uh, but I need to remind you of. Look at all the things that God has done for your life up until this point, and as you're waiting for him to come through in some different areas, remind yourself did he not come through in those miracles that you're currently living in?
Because, I mean, there was a time where I didn't even have a vehicle for the longest time, and God provided there were, I mean, you know, waiting on ministry. I I, there was times where I was like. This is never gonna happen. I, I just, I tried and I waited and I waited and it just seemed like the door was never gonna open.
And then here I am, you know, serving in ministry, what I, that just, that desire to say, Hey, God, I wanna serve your people. I wanna serve you. Um, and, and just being reminded of just, you know, that he's so faithful. He is so faithful. Well, Dan, thank you so much for joining us again, even though this will be the first actual recording.
We did it. Yeah. Thank you for blasting me. You really did. Um, and thank you guys for watching and I hope that you were. Blessed by Pastor Dan and all of his insight and revelation as he walked through some of my problems with me. I appreciate it and uh, thank you and God bless.